Hey everyone, welcome to Stacking Growth Live. I'm Sydney Waterfall, host, and I'm excited to announce we have a new co-host of the podcast, our brand new VP of Revenue R&D, Kaylee Edmondson. Hey everybody. Hey, thanks so much for that.
I'm super excited to be here. Awesome. So we today are going to talk about building revenue programs to nail your 2023 goals. So we're going to chat three things that you can start working on today to kind of make a meaningful impact on how to structure your revenue programs and something that we're both very passionate about, something that we're actively working on here internally at Refine Labs.
So we're just going to get into it. The three steps or three topics that we're going to go through today is one, auditing your revenue programs, two, understanding and addressing any infrastructure gaps, and then three is actually digging into some of the revenue R&D programs and how to think about concepts of programs as you kind of go into 2023 and you're finalizing your marketing plans and your go-to-market strategy. So we'll just jump in. If you have any questions, please drop them in the chat.
We're going to have some time at the end to go through some questions and we have some questions submitted in advance. All right. So let's dig into topic number one, auditing your revenue program. So if you're newer to an organization, highly recommend that you kind of do a formal revenue assessment of the last 12 months or last even if you have data past that last 16, 18 months to really understand what is working, what channels, what sources you have, and then how that kind of makes up this concept of pipeline sources.
And that's typically what we do when we work with companies and then internally here. Obviously, we already have kind of the infrastructure and the reporting to look at this. So we're really digging deep and kind of asking a lot of questions of does this make sense? How can we elevate certain programs and revenue drivers?
What should we be investing in? What should we not? And so that's really the key of the first step that we definitely recommend. And to give you guys some context, a pipeline source analysis is more of like a high level view of your entire new acquisition business channel.
So not just what may be coming through marketing or way coming through your specific department, but really looking at all new business acquisition from any pipeline source. So that could be outbound. That could be ABM Intents. That could be obviously your website, which we call pipe.
And looking at those pipeline sources against one another and understanding how they're actually impacting the business from volume all the way down to pipeline velocity, which is going to be a combination of a bunch of metrics, win rate, ACV, sales cycle link, and understanding the percentage of net new revenue that makes each pipeline sources contributing. So I'm going to stop there and kind of kick it over to Kaylee, and we're going to chat about kind of understanding your levers within some of these pipeline sources. Yeah, exactly. So I think that as you're gathering all of this data, really the goal that you should keep in mind is to understand levers.
Some of those levers could be things as simple as spend where you're spend is going, how you're allocating and distributing it, to which audiences on which programs, et cetera, but also really getting deep into lead quality conversion rates, better understanding your demo to hero percentage, and then ultimately what that win rate and ACV is coming out to by program. Hopefully, this helps you move away from some of the biases that we all develop when we're really close to programs, believing in our hearts that it's working, but looking at the data and seeing maybe it's not, perhaps isn't the best use or most efficient use of spend. And that's interestingly a part of what I've been doing stepping into this role as well, which I think we're kind of excited to pull back the curtain on a little bit and share a little bit more publicly, like what we're also doing at Refine for Refine, as I'm taking on this new role and help build out this function. So maybe we're sitting, we can like move into a quick riff on kind of what I've been looking into and what I've been finding and share a little bit more publicly, like where we're at.
Yes, I think we've gotten a lot of questions on what are we doing and what does this look like and what does your role even look like? So let's dig into that. What's your kind of perspective as you were, you know, you're over a month in, you've been in all of our systems and you were kind of auditing some of our programs and our pipeline. So what did you find interesting and what did you see are some gaps?
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think it's no question and probably no brainer for anyone on this call that LinkedIn and our podcast programs are really the powerhouse for Refine as a whole. So we would consider those to be phase four and phase five of the revenue on D framework, but it doesn't mean that we can't still continue to elevate initiatives within those commercialized programs to help keep them producing, scaling and sustaining at the volume that they're at today. So it's no secret that like we've nailed LinkedIn through Chris, but that doesn't mean that there's not opportunity for us to continue to test new formats, new distribution formats, particularly so that we can also stand up sustainable growth outside of just Chris and outside of the format that we know works through him.
Yeah, I think that's a good point. You know, what works for one personal brand may not work for another personal brand and what may work for a personal brand may not work for a company profile. Yeah, 100%. And I think that was like an early realization for us and especially something that we're going to look into moving into 2023 to understand how we can continue to sustain and scale LinkedIn and podcasting for the Refine brand at large.
Something else that was an interesting like early call out is that we as a whole are very light on our capture demand initiatives and programs. We do a lot Chris particularly does a lot of the work up front to make sure people know about our brand and understand our messaging and positioning, but in terms of once they get to the website, we aren't actually making a huge push there yet. So that's something else that I'd hope to make some good strides on moving into the next year. So some things that could fall under that would be making a big push for owning brand adjacent terms.
We are known for all these things we're going to talk about today, right? Halo, dark social, that attribution mirage, like all of these things that we find is known for yet. We've never really made a push to own or claim those brand adjacent terms. I'm not very hesitant to say SEO, but kind of in that vein, we'll make it our own of course, but I think that that is a huge land grab for us.
And I think one good call out is you can look at across all your programs and like understand for your business, like under which category should I be investing more? We lean really heavily on a lot of investment in the create demand bucket, right? Not every company does. That might not be the situation that you're in.
Obviously we've identified we need to do some stuff to fill some gaps on our capture demand strategy. And I think that's just a good call out. You may have even, hey, we need to fill some gaps in our partner strategy, for example. So whatever kind of pipeline source or area of the funnel that you need to focus on is going to be unique to your business and your audit and your review of the data is going to inform that.
So kind of what we're going through here. Yeah, absolutely. And I even think to considering revamping like stalled programs could be applicable for us and applicable for everyone probably listening. I'm sure that the throws spaghetti at the wall catchphrase isn't like only used by me.
I'm pretty sure we've all been in that before where we are launching multiple programs. And that's part of what this framework really should help us understand more scientifically, whether things are working, what phase they're in, et cetera. And so for us, we do have programs that are stalled, that aren't moving through to like commercialization phases. And so that's something we'll be like diving really deeply into come Q1.
So considering things like maybe revamping YouTube or revamping TikTok specifically for our company page, those are some examples of things that could also live in that category for us. And maybe for people listening as well. Yeah, that's a good call out. And I think that there's stalled programs, right?
You can kind of ask yourself, like, why do we think this is stalled or not delivering what we think it should be by this point? And there could be a variety of reasons. Maybe there's just not enough resources dedicated to really like invest in it and focus on it. It could be that the initiative and the tactics that you were deploying underneath that program, just maybe, you know, you swing a miss, which is going to happen.
That's the whole point. You need to swing a miss and figure out what works. So, you know, maybe it's like, OK, let's just take a to talk, for example, great. Chris's brand is doing good on TikTok.
We're seeing positive signals there. We need to revamp or we look at how we do anything outside of that with TikTok. Maybe our personal brand, maybe other creators, you know, you could even start dabbling with ads if you want. So there's a bunch of different tactics that we've never tried on TikTok or YouTube that we can start pausing certain ones, deploying other ones, depending on honestly, like your internal resources and the amount of focus that you want to dedicate to certain things.
So that's a good takeaway, I think, for people to kind of think about is it's probably not the program, it's probably the initiatives, the strategy and the tactic that you're deploying within the program. And those should be tested and, you know, you should fail and fail fast. And when you start seeing something work, like double down and go after it and like really, really drive it to see if you can go even further. Yeah, and I think I'll add one more thing on that is also the audience, right?
And that should help be informed from whoever's conducting your research, whoever's closest to your customers, right? Whoever's having those calls with your customer base, future prospects, et cetera, should also help inform where you feel like placing the biggest bets in terms of programs and channels. That just warms my heart that you said that. That's something we're really passionate about here is always being close to our customers and talking to them in multiple formats.
I mean, even events like this, where we get two-way feedback is a version of how we can get feedback and we talk directly to customers as well. Okay, so let's kind of the first bucket we wanted to dive into, which is auditing your revenue programs to kind of inform your strategy. The second bucket we wanted to dive into is infrastructure gap, which honestly is something I love and I feel like I'm a hidden marketing sales ops nerd at heart. So, and I know, Kayla, you're very passionate about ops.
So let's dig into this. When you're assessing infrastructure gaps, you want to look at this holistically as well. What infrastructure gaps do you have on your whole go-to-market? What can you report on now and what can you data do you have now and what do you wish you have that there's a gap?
So will dig into what that looks like for us and kind of go through some examples and not surprising here. And focusing on the capture demand gaps first as well as we address some other gaps. Yeah, so like Cindy, I think just over 30 days or so. So these are some things that we focused on in the last 30 days since I joined the team.
Obviously we need a holistic view for understanding where we are at from a program perspective on our revenue R&D pipeline view for us. We're using Monday for our project management and that will be where we house our source of truth for where we're at in terms of program pipeline. So we've been having lots of good collaborative conversations internally about how we really want to structure this and set it up for success. Not only for our executives to be able to hop in and take a view quickly at what programs are progressing through to commercialization stage versus which of those we are still very much so in phase zero phase one phase two and understanding which positive signals we're gearing up for versus maybe programs that are more stalled.
So that kind of stems off of things we've chatted about in the audit as well but definitely has spent a lot of time there in the last 30 days. Also, this will probably come as no surprise but we're working on building out a more sophisticated structure for our UTM's so that we can get more diligent and less bias about what programs are making an impact for our revenue versus the programs that aren't. And then tech stack so for us our tech stack is super simple. We've got HubSpot for marketing automation for CRM and for website right now but there's still definitely some infrastructure gaps in terms of what sales is what fields sales is using versus what fields we're using how we need to report out on that at scale versus where we need to build more intricate workflows to make sure that we can bubble up some of those qualitative notes and feedback points into a more reportable structure.
And then lastly, team process and alignment I think kind of rolls into that as we're doing audits through HubSpot and understanding what fields are getting used versus what fields aren't getting used. It sparks up a lot of good questions between the revenue R&D team and our sales organization to understand, hey, after we pass these opportunities or these, you know, prospects become opportunities, what's actually happening on your side of the house so that we make sure we are creating a good feedback loop and not operating in silos. Yeah, I love that. The other thing that obviously we talk about a lot is ensuring that you have accurate hybrid attribution.
So this is the self-reported field on your high-intent conversion forms and also aligning just your sources, channels and campaigns. So we have had this form on our website a lot. I know a lot of people on this call have and some people are thinking of implementing it, right? So one thing that we've came across recently where we're working through is we now are going to have multiple products and that we sell and how we think about how we globally capture on our high-intent conversion forms and our conversion paths, that self-reported attribution and how that flows into our data and into the Salesforce app that we're designing.
So that's an example of something where, yes, we already have this, but we identify for us in our business, we need to elevate this even more. And so that's something that we're actively working on and I'm sure we'll be talking a lot about in the future once we implement and get that going. And there are going to probably be infrastructure gaps, you know, outside of just capture demand or outside of hybrid attribution. These are just like very common ones that we see with most companies.
I think when you're looking at infrastructure gaps, you can again look at it from like your whole revenue system and also based on your strategy that you're going to be deploying or investments that you're going to be going into in the next year, you need to kind of get ahead of some of that infrastructure and hopefully plug the gap before it becomes a gap. So there's a couple of things that we're looking at on our end and things that you could look at your end, like if you're changing your sales process, changing your structures, you're going to need to make sure that your infrastructure is set up for that. Pricing and packaging is a very hot topic right now of like, how are you thinking about your pricing and packaging and your products as you move into the new year? And how are you adjusting that to your market to your customer?
And if you do that, you might need to adjust your systems as well. So awesome. We're getting some more questions in the chat, which I'll be sure to kind of answer and there's some really good ones here. So we will definitely get to those.
We have like one little small last section and then we will do it for open Q&A. So the last section is kind of thinking about your programs and what we think about our programs and the revenue R&D framework. And I'll quickly give an overview of, for those that may not be familiar, we have some podcast content on this and we will have some more content coming soon. We have actually a lot of content right now in our vault, one of our products that we offer, but I'll be kind of an overview of the concept.
So as we talk through, it will make a little bit more sense. So the revenue R&D framework is essentially a scientific process of advancing revenue generating programs from concept to fully integrated programs in a consistent and scalable way. Okay. So what does that mean?
We developed a phased approach that is set with very specific criteria and a standardized exit criteria so that you measure all of your revenue programs for the same way and in the same pipeline. And I think that's like a big shift that I'm really excited about is it's no longer, hey, what's like marketing doing for the revenue system? It's what is a revenue program pipeline look like overall for the business? And we can talk a little bit about how we have operationalize out there and how Kayleigh is kind of working on that internally for refine labs, but I want to just quickly go through the phases and kind of the definitions.
So the first three phases are essentially like proof of concept. Like that's when we're really trying to prove concept of these phases. Phase one is going to be what we call experiment and it's launching a new experiment into the market with proper data and collection. So you have to have your infrastructure in place, right?
And then when you move to the next phase, which is phase two, it's called positive signals and I'll briefly touch on the exit criteria for these. I'm sure we'll get a ton of questions or maybe we need a whole other separate meeting for that, but we'll touch on a lot of these as we go. So to get from phase one to phase two, it's the exit criteria is greater than 10 attributable conversions to the program using hybrid attribution. And then phase two would be positive signals.
So the documented positive program pipeline that's moving in the direction you should be keep investing in. So an exit criteria here would be that the program has greater than 200k in hero pipeline via attribution, hybrid attribution, which means great demand attribution or capture demand attribution, depending on the program that you're running. And then phase three, which is repeatability. This is the last phase of the proof of concept.
And this is proving that hero pipeline can be created in a repeatable way. And you figure that out. So the total program generates more than 250k in hero pipeline for three on average for three consecutive months. Now you're out of the proof concept phase, what we call commercial integration, which is phase four and five.
Phase four operationalize. You've proven this program can generate cumulatively more than a million dollars in hero pipeline. And then phase five is the scale and stain, which is a proven revenue generating program that delivers repeatable results. So in this phase, it's more of a validation criteria.
It's not an exit stage five. You want to keep your programs in stage five. So you evaluate your results quarterly to ensure that they maintain the criteria to be in there. So it's a very high level.
And now I want to dig into how we think about this and how we do this at Refine. Let's give you kind of more of a practical example. So when we were looking at our programs, I'm going to pass over to you, Kayleigh, but you mentioned programs that we're working well, our powerhouse programs. So let's start there.
What are some things that we were going to be doing for those programs, which would be LinkedIn and podcast? Yeah, exactly. So LinkedIn and podcast are our powerhouse in stage four and stage five collectively. Some things that we really should double down on and continue to ensure that we can maintain that like scale and sustainability are understanding who else we can present as a personal brand and testing our way into moving that through the system.
Right now, obviously, we rely as a brand pretty heavily on our branded company pages and on CRISAs, but haven't really tested our way into anything outside of that. And then same goes for LinkedIn and podcast both. So revenue, Vitals, obviously, is CRISAs podcast and is definitely stage five. Stacking growth is something that I think we need to take a second look at and understand how to move that more successfully through the phases.
Yes. And I think we do that through all of your guys is here. People who are engaging with Stacking Growth, what is helpful, what is, you know, what do you guys like to see? Like we really want to engage with the audience.
And so one of the things about when you think about programs is your customer insights and your customer feedback fuel, what programs initiatives and tactics are going to invest in the strategy that you're going to do those in. And then underneath that program, you then figure out what team, what person, what owner actually executes and like does the work. But really that's kind of the flow, how we start evaluating programs and where our strategy is going to be. So what about new, I also talk about new stuff that we're doing.
So I do think, you know, you want to look at doubling down if there's scalability, which you just covered. But what about even not new programs, but maybe new tactics or initiatives in something that you're already running? Yeah. Tactics or initiatives that you're already running, I think goes into some programs for us that were like we're already running would be Stacking Growth.
A good example of that could be getting into a better routine for lives, understanding like more critical feedback. Maybe we host different formats. Maybe we run all AMAs versus panels versus, you know, midday on noon, you know, at noon versus a time that's more favorable to people on the West Coast. Like all of those things are things we could very well test in existing programs to make sure that we're really increasing that engagement and impact for the audience that we're trying to tailor that program to.
With that, I think comes the exciting prospect of testing net new initiatives and programs that maybe we aren't already trying to move through a phased approach. There are tons of things that can fall into that. This goes back to like understanding the difference between like throwing spaghetti at the wall versus where you really should focus your time. All of those things again, it should be informed from your research team.
And some of those early signals that I'm hearing from our research crew is like, we have so much content, so much great content here at Refine that centralizing that into a home in a place where all of our fans can find it easily, consistently, repeatably would be something that's needed or wanted. So something like a long-form newsletter could be a net new program that we test out in our future. Yes, she's wrapping ideas, but not guarantees everybody. That's right.
That's right. We're going through this internally of like figuring out like, okay, here's maybe a need, here's a gap. What are the ideas and the strategy to fill that gap? So all of this is still in talks, but you will probably see that Kaylee and her team doing some pretty awesome stuff in the next couple of months.
And then the last thing is we've had to make some, you know, hard choices on what to cut or what to just put on pause. And we have to do that strategically. So you know, no one has unlimited resources and unlimited team members. And so I think that is a lot of conversations a lot of companies are going through right now.
Absolutely. And I think that like a process for that, something that's like a very relatable matrix that I've always gone back to at any point in my career for understanding how to cut or deprioritize projects, programs, initiatives is really just a matrix that identifies like level of effort versus perceived level of impact. And for us, those are the conversations we're having internally right now too. Like what resources do we have available today?
What's our perceived like level of impact on how quickly we'd be able to move this program on this initiative through our phases? And if it doesn't make the cut, then it goes into a nice little backlog section for us to consider later. Yeah. Awesome.
I think that was the main topics that we wanted to kind of quickly summarize. We have, Todd's going to be pulling some questions from the chat. We've already got some. We did get a couple submitted in advance.
So I know Kaylee was grabbing those if you want to do a couple of those while we grab some audience questions. Yeah. So many great questions. So keep them coming.
We'll get through as many as we possibly can. So some that were submitted in advance. Simon was wondering several, several really great things. I'll volley most of them to you, Sydney.
We can riff. Do running or indeed team have responsibility for category creation or is that outside of their soap? Great question. I think we're figuring out how we do this internally and kind of using our internal team as a way to align this.
So I can speak for how we're doing it here and how we think it's best being done here. So we have different buckets and different teams that work cross-functionally together. So we've got strategy and innovation. We've got product and product management, customer success, sales.
So marketing at Refine Labs and how you think of marketing is kind of completely changed. And that's why we've introduced this new role, this new job description and Kaylee's kind of stepped in to take on what we look at as revenue R&D. So I'll break that down and we can go back and forth. So product strategy and innovation, that is really where category design, customer and market insights, product management, commercial product management, and then product marketing and maybe PR kind of sits under strategy and innovation here at Refine Labs.
We have then kind of like RevOps, which is just tools, data. That could be one person, that could be an entire team depending on your setup. And then we have revenue R&D, which is Kaylee's team. And so I'll kind of let you give an overview of exactly how that works and what your responsibilities are.
Yeah, absolutely. So if we try and summarize revenue R&D as a function, it should be perceived as your command center for go to market. We are responsible for running that new programs, but also evaluating all of our existing programs. I think that an interesting caveat to call out for existing programs means existing programs inside of what would traditionally be called your marketing or demand gen team, but also programs that live outside of this.
So if you have, I don't know, a huge outbound motion or something, this revenue R&D leader would be in charge of kind of coming on top, going through all the steps we really talked about earlier, understanding and auditing existing programs, what phases this in, what signals are we receiving, are there infrastructure gaps, et cetera? And then understanding how to really like scale and operationalize that program, which I think is going to be a little bit of a shift for how most people on this call will probably think about it because it hasn't normally been like in your swim lane, but it really should be if you're wearing that revenue R&D hat. So any programs for the business working through how to evaluate existing programs and really move them through that five phase approach. And then also infrastructure.
So I think analytics reporting, attribution, setting up those signals and what you're looking for for exit criteria for each phase, et cetera, would also all live under the revenue R&D team. Yeah, definitely a different mindset shift of what marketing kind of means and is responsible for. So we'll keep you updated on how it goes, but the structure is working really well so far and we work really closely cross-functionally. So it's more focused on cross-functional rather than a hierarchy of this leader, this leader, this leader.
Yeah, that's a good call out too. Next question, how do you ensure that your buyers have a voice in your revenue R&D decisions? Yes, I kind of mentioned this earlier, but the customer insights and the like strategy and innovation team or fine labs, but customer insights and strategy really are an input to the R&D team, right? Those responsibilities are separate from the R&D team, but they're a huge input to give R&D and the rest of the business insights of what should be prioritized, how it should be prioritized, what we should be thinking about, how would we deploy X, Y, or Z, what is the audience, what is the messaging.
So that's how we kind of run it here. And that kind of hierarchy is customer insights then fuels revenue R&D and then you get into the program and execution and who's doing what. And to Haley's point earlier, it's not just the marketing team owning and doing all the execution, there might be something that we need to do where actually Carl is the one executing it on our sales team, but he's working with Kaylee to make sure we're all aligned on the strategy and getting also that feedback loop, for example. Yeah, well done.
Let's see what else we've got in here. We've got so many questions. How do you measure success in this revenue R&D structure given that it takes so long to bubble up? I think it's specifically asking about demand creation.
Yeah. If you're investing in create demand activities, you obviously need to have the right measurement infrastructure in place. We've already kind of covered that. We typically see you through self-report attribution depending on the program.
If you're just starting, it's going to take you a little bit longer to shift, but the average company should probably start seeing something within like six to eight to ten weeks. More mature companies who, some of our customers, for example, we should start seeing in the experiment phase, if we need ten conversions, we should start seeing, okay, at least one or two things come through SRA. Timeline is, I could give you a better timeline answer if I knew your company and your stage and your size and maybe what programs are running, but that's typically that six to eight to ten weeks is if we're not seeing anything, like maybe the strategies wrong, tactics are off, something needs to be there. I can probably take this next one.
It's Logan says he's interested to know what KPIs you're focused on or held accountable for in your role. So for me specifically in the revenue R&D role, I am responsible and held accountable for hero pipeline from all pipeline sources. And then secondarily, the revenue R&D program progression is also a KPI for me and my team. Simple to the.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No need to make it overly complex. And I can probably maybe start on the section of the city we can riff, but hope ask, being in the job search and having just wrapped up your job search, I'd love to know what y'all stop questions to ask of company or marketing leaders is while you're interviewing to weed out the opportunities that wouldn't necessarily be aligned with this framework or strategy that we've chatted about today. I think for me, as obviously I did just wrap up this process and did talk with a lot of companies and ask them these very similar questions.
So I really love to get in the weeds on what's working best for them, what's not working and really listening to how they're answering the questions, what programs they're like most opportunistic about and how they're thinking about it. But I also think that I can kind of weed out like whether I'm going to be philosophically aligned with that company or not, based on better understanding their actual like buying process, what happens to a prospect after they hit go on your demo form, if you're passing it to an SDR and you're getting into a call and you're doing call calls and demos and everything's hidden behind a paywall in your pricing is not public. Those types of things are things I get really excited about and care deeply about, which for the most part you can identify from the outside in before you even get that far down in an interview process. So some of those things could be helpful hopefully.
Yeah, definitely. Some of the questions that we typically ask for, even our kind of demand roles or even like when we were looking for a VP of revenue R&D is I want to get into like what's working and what's not working, but like I want to know that you know the strategy, you know the tactics and you know like numbers. So more specifics. So the more we can start high level and the more specific we can drill in, I think that's a really good indication that the candidate is very strong and really understands the full ecosystem, even if they're not like the ones executing on all of that.
We always, you know, I like to dig into how would you create demand for our brand? What do you think are top creation demand creation strategies that you would want to deploy kind of get really gets your perspective on where they would go first, where do they get excited, where do they lean in, it could speak to your strengths, it could speak to your interests or your kind of passion projects that you might want to do inside of a role. I always think about how you measure what's your viewpoint on measuring attribution, how do you report today, how do you wish you could report. What's your tech stack, right?
Let's get into the nitty gritty. Yeah, if you come in and they're like inundated with tech and it's like cool, how are you using it and they don't really know that could be a flag. Yeah, great question though. Hopefully that's helpful for a lot of people.
Yeah, for sure. And hopefully good luck on the job search. There's still lots of good gigs out there. So maybe some of those company attributes will help narrow down the search.
Okay, we've got several more questions. We can just keep a roll in. Let's go. Okay, let's do it.
Is Refine Lots of Revenue R&D framework applicable to any B2B product or proposition? Yes. Yes, it is. It's one thing I will say is it's more focused on new business revenue at the moment.
The way we've structured mainly the exit criteria. I think that's one innovation that we're trying to figure out is how do we get all revenue systems in? So expansion, working on net revenue, turn impact. I think that's where we're definitely going to take it.
So right now when we talk about revenue R&D, it's more tailored towards B2B SaaS and more tailored towards sales led slightly. We are working too on like how do we take a more holistic approach when we have companies at PLG and SLG combined emotions. And we're working through that honestly with a lot of our customers right now. And we love working through that and figuring it out.
Literally whenever we have an idea or we think we have figured something out, like we publish it to the market and get feedback. So we will continue to iterate and update things as we go, which is I know I get kind of excited about that aspect. Yeah, we're truly going to be building in public. So we can come back to a lot of these points I'm sure in the coming weeks as we continue to flush things out too, which is cool.
When you, sitting this might be one for you, when you run new programs for clients, are you collaborating with the clients staffs teams and how are they contributing to these programs? Yeah, 100%. It's a joint effort. We have different ways that you can work with us, right?
Like you can work with us and kind of do it yourself. That's one of our new products called the Vault. You can go on that during where we kind of guide you or we have our revenue R&D teams that will pair work with your teams to then do exactly what we said. We're going to audit.
We're going to go through the revenue performance assessment together. We're going to align on what's working, what's not, what are the gaps are. We are going to strategize on your R&D pipeline together. And there's going to be programs that the client owns and they are fully executing on.
Just like the sales kind of example we talked about, right? Maybe partner is a good example. Like we are not going to probably partner and own partner. Your team is going to do that, but we're going to help you monitor and look at it holistically.
And we will decide based on the strengths of our team and the strengths of your team, who's going to be doing what and how we're going to be executing together. But it's very much, it won't work if it's not a collaborative effort. And I think it doesn't matter if you're using an external resource or you're using someone like us or you're trying to do it yourself internally. It needs to be the exact same way.
It needs to be very collaborative and very open and it really has to kind of start at the executive level. Yeah. When, this is the one, when you're talking about high intense source for building hero pipe, is that based on first such last or both? Attribution questions, yes.
So it is based on when the buyer converted. So typically that is going to be on the last touch from a software attribution perspective when they convert it into your sales funnel. So for example, someone comes to our website and it's, they've came four times and they've came from a branded search organic, some UTM campaign, but when they actually converted on our high intent form, it was through direct. So that would be attributed to a direct to give you kind of an example.
Yeah, we were actually just talking about this internally the other day. So great question. Yes. It's part of our UTM discussion.
It's part of our UTM discussion. Yeah. Rachel actually asked you, how are you improving your UTM tracking? So you can start with the riff on this one, I think.
Yes. You've actually implemented some tracking code on our website that stores the UTM's in the same session. So when you convert on our form, if you're what happens a lot, if you don't have the infrastructure set up is you'll go to whatever page with a UTM, call it the homepage, and then you click on your conversion page or you click on a few pages, your UTM's drop. And then when you convert on the form, there's no UTM's.
So we, and that's a pretty traditional set up that you see out of the box. So we've implemented a script where we track the UTM's in the session and then that's what gets captured on the form completion, if the form completion happened in that session. Exactly. And all of these things that we're working on nailing in terms of UTM tracking are what is going to feed our Salesforce app.
I really haven't like said that this call, but I'm sure you've heard we're working on a Salesforce app, it'll be commercialized in Q1. And so we're kind of taking that baton for UTM tracking to make sure we're setting it up in the best way, not only for ourselves, but also so we can help teach everybody else who wants to use our app best practices and how to structure that so that it will automate all that reporting through the Salesforce app. Yes. And you know, we're growing up a little bit.
We're getting like, you know, standardized stuff in place of even just like our standardized like values for our UTM's, you know, that's depending on who's doing your UTM's and how your teams are structured and who's responsible, like sometimes there's not alignment there. So even just something as very basic as we recommend to everybody is just have a standardized way that you standardize values you put in your UTM's and standardize way that you like create your UTM links, which is pretty standard. We've done that, you know, historically, but we're just making sure and auditing and making sure everything's tight. 100%.
Let's see what else we've got so many are still coming in. How do you apply the revenue or indeed model in the pharma industry? So for example, bringing a drug from feasibility testing to commercialization can take seven to 10 years. I'm new to health here space and do it my job.
We're already working to implement the how did you hear about us fields to create a more holistic feedback loop to attribute success to the correct sources. But I'm guessing Gabe is curious about what to do next. This is a good question. I don't know if I'll have honestly a great answer, but I'll try.
So, you know, when you're saying bringing a drug from feasibility to testing to commercialization, that's more of the product on the job map, right? Of bringing that product can take seven to 10 years, right? When we're talking about revenue R&D, it's then how do we create revenue and demand for that product when it's ready? So this is one thing that I've actually been working with a couple of customers is when do you put programs in place for products that are, like the products need to be at a certain phase of your product R&D roadmap before you would then maybe invest and put them in your revenue R&D roadmap.
Like, for example, I would not suggest putting a product that's in beta or putting a product that's still, I don't know the pharma industry. So, excuse me, but that's still in clinical trials or something in your R&D roadmap. So I think that your product R&D roadmap and milestones kind of then fuel your revenue R&D programs. So that's what my initial response would be to that question.
Yeah, exactly. And I don't know a ton about the pharma industry either, but I think that if you are already taking steps to implement the, how did you hear about us? That's the best way to move forward. If anything, you can already start taking those learnings even from an early stage on understanding where your prospective buyers are coming from and what's resonating with them early, even if the product or drug in this case isn't necessarily at commercialization, there still must be people interested if you're trying to understand where they're coming from.
That feedback loop should go directly back to your product R&D team to help them understand maybe how to get this through commercialization faster. So it could be like a, you're taking like a step change approach to even implementing some things on the product R&D side, which could be cool. Do you want to do one more? Yeah, let's do it.
We've got one that I guess was like almost surged to a couple like plus ones to it. I feel like maybe should address that. It's, can you walk through an example of a split the funnel analysis? Yeah.
Yeah, it looks like Nicole and David were all plus ones here. So yes, we can definitely walk through an example of a split the funnel analysis. Quick shout out is maybe we can drop the episode in here, but we do have like two to three episodes of that literally go step by step of how to do this, which I'll drop in or if someone can drop in or I'll follow up with you guys. But the base of it is once we recommend doing a pipeline source analysis first, which is more of a global level, then the second level would be doing your split the funnel analysis, which is looking at your funnel by kind of intent and I would say declared intent versus non declared intent.
And when we say that, we're talking about that the prospect gave you the intent. It's declared intent. It's not a third party, second party anonymous intent. It's not all of that.
So what you're going to do is you're going to look at all of your leads or conversions, I should say that a prospect came to you and asked you about your solution to buy. So many of them are going to get demo form, sales, contact us, whatever those CTA's are for you. They came to you and they wanted to have a conversation about buying. Now what we can sit here kind of low intent is that something happened and you were going out to them and you were trying to sell them.
They never asked for you to do that. So that's like the clearest distinction and some programs under that or lead types or program types under that were going to be lead gen or trigger ABM or software based intent triggered outbound could be one event. Maybe it's an event that you're just following up with some of the intended event. They never asked to speak with you.
Conversely, you could have an event that someone did book a meeting with you and asked to talk about your product and that would be high intent. So you can kind of see you need to be able to break these things down by they asked to talk to sales and they did not ask to talk to sales. And we're going to track normally you have to do a mapping exercise of like all these five, six things equal high intent, all these six, seven things equal low intent. You're going to group them together and then you're going to look at funnel metrics of all those things combined in separate funnels.
Normally what you're going to see is higher sales velocity and higher efficiency on high intent and inefficient models and lead to win and conversion rates and things are going to be much lower on your low intent, which that's kind of the point of looking at how to split the funnel. Anything else you want to add, Kayleigh? I know you've done this a lot too. Yeah, I was going to say, I think that almost goes into the, it helps support your case.
I think somebody else had asked about like how you help build a case for that matrix that I had mentioned earlier about like level of effort versus level of impact and this directly helps support that matrix to help you understand which programs need to go into which quadrant of that matrix and can be something really valuable for not only for you to like help drive your own strategy, but to serve up in a simplified view to your executive team. I've used it several times. I think in every, probably every company I've worked at since I started like listening to refine and it goes over really well. It's like a data backed model less biased on like I feel like this program is going to do great things for us, you know, so that they can react like hard and fast instead of having to muddy through a really long strategy doc, it's a good thought starter for executives to kick off conversations for like 2023 planning with.
Awesome. Well, I work on me up on time. We do have to actually do some work today, unfortunately, and for you all do too. I'm super excited for Kaylee to be a host and her first inaugural Stacking Growth Live.
Everybody give her some love and yeah, reach out to either of us if you have any feedback and we'll be seeing you soon.