S2E1: Mastering the Craft of Product Management with Michael Palmer and Evie Brockwell

What happens when two product people stop chasing perfection and start talking honestly about the job?In this episode, Karl is joined by Evie Brockwell and Michael Palmer for a wide-ranging, refreshingly human conversation about what product work really feels like day to day. Michael shares the excitement and pressure of stepping into BBC iPlayer, including the surreal experience of watching real people sit on a couch in a mock living room while testing new ideas for one of the UK’s most iconic platforms. It is a reminder that behind big brands and bold ambitions, product decisions still come down to watching humans struggle, succeed, and surprise you.Evie reflects on leaving a high-profile corporate career to work for herself, turning product thinking inward to test her own assumptions, experiment with different paths, and learn, sometimes the hard way, that passion and traction do not always show up where you expect them to. Together, they talk candidly about burnout, confidence, learning to say no, and the quiet damage that comes from letting your calendar run your life.The conversation also touches on growth, from learning to trust data without losing judgment, to using AI as a helpful assistant rather than a replacement for thinking. Through it all, Evie and Michael bring warmth, humor, and honesty to topics many product managers feel but rarely say out loud.If you have ever wondered whether you are focusing on the right things, felt overwhelmed by expectations, or wished product conversations sounded a little more real and a little less polished, this episode will feel like sitting down with peers who genuinely get it.Quotes: "If you're a product manager and you're not speaking to users, are you really a product manager?" - Michael Palmer "The best experiments are the ones if they don't work, because you can learn everything about why someone might have hated that and then work out how to grow and improve." - Evie Brockwell Resources Mentioned: Marty Cagan's book "Inspired" Product Confidential Podcast Call to Action: Follow Evie Brockwell on LinkedIn for updates on her workshops and coaching programs. Check out the Product Confidential Podcast on Spotify for more authentic product management conversations.