Let's be frank. Donald Trump was obsessed with me. He never had a Muslim. Somebody on my background, my fake.
He won't respond the way he did what he did. The Mayor of London's streetcar is the first Muslim mayor who has made some powerful opponents. The new image of Britain's multi-cultural society. The Mayor is with us.
Do you think London's safe? Er, well, we've reduced homicides to live crime by crime. I don't think people feel safe in London. I'm not excusing it, I'll explain it to classical consequences.
There's been a lot of instances of police officers who have attacked, raped, women and girls on the streets of London. What are you doing about that? We're doing it now. How?
I think for his size for this. Since you were elected Mayor, what are the things you look like? Do you know what I failed there? Well, that's a good question, but I'm running for election in 467 days time.
I'm not going to ask that question. I'm just going to speak with you. You can't tell the truth because it's not what you said against you. I think most MPs have got to be an authentic.
I see why, because... What's been your hardest days, London Mayor? There's been a few. At least 58 people were killed in the fire of Renville Tower.
I still remember the images, that's from the heat. One family of six people wiped out, and a number of terror attacks in London. London Bridge, Westminster Bridge, Fraser Park. I went to a lot of funerals.
That's somewhat hard. Steve, give me your context. I spent a long time reading through your Baxter and I think it's an especially important place to start because it appears to be much of your... Your reason for being and your reason for doing.
So can you take me right back? I want to hear about Pakistan. I want to hear about your earliest years in London. Sure.
First, it's a pleasure to be on this, Steve. Just two things before we start. It's not being a stick of fun. Please don't think I'm being patronised.
Firstly, I think you realise that you're a massive role model to so many Londoners. There are people that you will never meet who you've had an impact on. So thank you firstly for that. I meet people who don't meet who, when I say who's your role models, and I pray you to get examples of the hard work you do.
So thank you for that. But secondly, congratulations. It's always lovely to meet somebody who's incredibly successful, who's normal. So my family's story is quite complicated.
My grandparents and great grandparents were in India, both on my mum's side and my dad's side. And the story of India is India was part of the British Empire. And the short version of the long story is in 1947, the British decided to give up India and partition India. But I'm not going to divide and rule and stuff, but there'd been sectarian violence between Muslim Sikhs and Hindus, and Muslim in India wasn't safe.
Just like a Sikh and Hindu, generally speaking, West Pakistan and youth Pakistan weren't safe. Why? Because these countries were going to be stately Muslim, and the middle India is stately Hindu and Sikh. So my grandparents and great grandparents left everything behind.
Everything behind. So my parents experienced being immigrants once already, right, from India to Pakistan. And they had a comfortable life in Pakistan, middle class, up middle class. My dad decided he was in the Pakistan year for us.
He went first to Australia. And the Australian is watching this. This is no special in your country, it's a great country, right? He didn't really like Australia.
And so when he went back to Pakistan, he didn't want to go to Australia to live. And he came to London, and he made London his home. And this is a London, which, yes, when he first came, there was signs saying, you know, no blacks, no Irish, no dogs by blacks, anybody who wasn't white. And when I came to my mum and dad who travelled, you know, three, four thousand miles, no new language, no new culture, I raised a family.
I was born in Tooten in George Hospital. I first lived a mile up the road in the Henderson State, on a council estate. My parents moved a mile the other way after, so my dad managed to save it, it wasn't for a house. And I now live a mile and half from where I was born.
So I've literally gone a mile radius, right, from where I was born. You know, my grandparents and my parents had this huge strife and travel this way. So I'll be the first con in three generations, and not to be a migrant, because I'm, I'm staying here. That whole experience, growing up in the house of 10, 10 people, eight siblings in total, in a, in a council house.
That's that, yeah. Council flat. The, the immigrant story you've told there, watching your parents struggle to provide for both, for all of you. What imprint has that left on you?
When you look back and go, that's why I am the way that I am. That's, it's really, I'm reaching out the real defining attributes. The things that make Sadiq different from the, the average person on the street, the work ethic, the, the, you know. And with that, I also want to know, you know, one of my guests on this podcast, that was the coach from Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, said that we all have a dark side.
And much of our dark side is, can be attributed to the thing that makes us quote unquote great. You see the last dance? Yeah, I got it. It sounds amazing.
My favorite from the wall. Yeah. So, I think you tend to mirror emulate and be like those you're around. You copy the mannerisms and behaviors and so forth.
And I, I was raised in a family where we find incredibly privileged. A moment ago, both made sure we understood that this privilege meant with a responsibility to, you know, listen to your teachers at school, to work hard. And, you know, to, to not be a shaker, basically. And so, you know, all of us, not just had a really good work ethic still do.
All of us also, I just think about this the other night. I've given something back, whether it's coaching in boxing, or whether it's, you know, volunteering at the swimming club, whether it's, you know, politics, or whatever. Because I came from my parents, what we saw in relation to. What we saw was going on in the state.
And my friends are doing stuff. And, you know, the interesting thing about our state was everyone worked. All the dads worked. Most of the moms had a job.
And, you know, there was a work ethic and a sense of community. I'm not pretending it was brilliant. You know, the roasting classes and stuff. But yeah.
So, you know, my wife often, you know, jokes that, you know, I can't see around doing nothing. I was going to be doing something because I was on my dad doing something. Even if I went on the, you know, the other day he'd have off, he'd take us to museums, take us to galleries, go out on a tour of London, go to Hyde Park. So, so there's no, there was no time for doing nothing.
And so it's really, it's hard for me to actually spend time going to the theatre and just do leisure or, you know, read a book for the sake of reading the book and stuff. Because, you know, there we go, guys. I saw that throughout your story. And I heard it from some of your colleagues as well that.
And I also heard you say, in fact, I'm an interview where you said that you worked seven days a week. That's not very healthy. Yes and no. So, I'm very lucky.
I'm privileged. I'm there on them. I didn't eat and also get my stuff. My main sort of top stuff.
And I said to them last week, listen, I would reply for my job at the next election. In this term, we have 475 days left. That's now down to four or six, seven days left. At the time we're recording this.
We've got to work on the basis that there is a possibility. I'll try my best that it doesn't happen. The responsibility I will not be reelected when I reply for my job. London's all the same note.
We've got to use every single day we have left. Every hour we have left to make sure we maximize the living for our city, to make it safer, to make it fairer, to make it more prosperous. We can't afford to waste this time. It's a privilege.
It's a privilege. What about you, though, in your family and all the other things that make life worth living? It's not just work, right? Yeah.
What I do is work without being work. I'll give you an example. I might go and support a fair production. My support is going along to watch it, and they can then amplify it.
I've been there, right? But it's a great night out for my wife and I. I might do something with my daughter and stuff. I recognize that my wife and daughters and my mum and my brothers and sisters and mine laws have me sacrifices by me doing my job.
I'm cognizant of that. I'm grateful for that. You can't do the job that I'm doing without the support. By the way, you can also do this job.
I worked three days a week. The previous guy did that. You can do that. It's a privilege to do the job.
I think it's a privilege. I remember when I was in government. I remember in 2010, the last year I sat around the cabinet with Gordon Brown and the team. I think there were some incredibly talented people around the cabinet in the prime of their game.
It's an incredibly talented special advice in the prime of their game. We lost the general election and their peak years, they're not in government. They're not advising the government. Had I known in 2005 when I first became an MP and had Tony and Gordon sat down with 300 plus people.
We've got to maximize these five years between 2005 and 2010. I think things have been different. We don't realize it's a privilege. We use every day we have.
I'm not criticizing Tony and Gordon, but I'm saying you don't know how long you've got your job. My views, you make the most of it. It's time to rest later on. That's also not guaranteed though, right?
Well, in terms of life generally. Yeah, but I love my job. I've been lucky to have three big jobs. I was a lawyer for 11 years.
I loved it. I was a politician and a minister for 11 years. I loved it. I'm another mayor.
I've been the mayor for the last six or five years. You're lucky enough to have a job you love and you're famous for it. You've got to have a supportive family. My wife is so supportive.
She's not just an incredible chair. She gives me good advice. She pulls me up when I bring the arrogance home or I have to do just a grandchild. She makes you up at the bins out.
She makes you up at the bin out. She makes you up at the bin up and stuff. You need that sort of. You need that sense of humanity home.
My daughter's jeez. There's always a grace in my house. They're both back home now to finish university. They're both working.
They're supportive. They support what I'm doing. Then I'm here. That's your wife.
I said to her. I said, what are you? What are you about to do? Because I could take what my girlfriend would say in a heartbeat.
She said, Stephen, it's just an hour and a half. How long have you got? It's a long list. I'm sure there's a long list of stuff.
I think people don't get to see that. The impact that being a politician has on the family at home. Now, this is one of the things I'm super interested in with all my guests is how that then impacts all the people we don't get to see. What I did at early stage was I involved my office.
My team, my office, a lot of them are now my best friends. I've worked with them so long. They're not Saudi and they know the kids. So, simple things.
My team will send Saudi and my diary for the weekend advance. The nights I'm out. The nights I'm in. Which things should we come along to?
The families involved in that at home we have on the fridge, which tells us who's at home for walking lunar and so forth. It only works when you share what you're doing. She's got two jobs herself. It only works if everyone's on the same page.
It does not work. A lot of my friends in politics, marriage breakups. A lot of my friends in the law, marriage breakups, all those sorts of problems. So, you've got to have not just somebody who is supportive of you doing it, but is an active player and you're doing it.
You've got to make sure that parts of your work life are shared with your home life. There's a couple of conditions we have at home. What is the biggest friction? No, that's the question I ask.
We don't have a friction at home. I mean, work life balance is an issue. You know, meet me as another family event or be able to go to a distant friends or relations social event. But we don't really do friction.
I'm trying to think that the last time we had, you know, it's diary management. So, last Saturday, for example, I was doing something for work and then I promised to go to a party in Eastbourne, an anniversary party with a friend and then do something back in London on Sunday. So, I'm managing that with, negotiating that with my wife and my daughters was quite feet. Just more than a decade.
I'm always, I think the word is skeptical. I've said this about Hancock when I spoke to him about why politicians become politicians. You had a great job. You know, paid a lot of money.
You made the decision to quit that job very abruptly and go into politics and become ultimately a Labour MP. Why? So, the qualification to that question, you're right by that. It's all right.
It was the MP for Tutin. So, what I wasn't going to do was give up my legal career. By the way, it wasn't just a great legal career, but a great future ahead of me because it's just the two of us around the business, very profitable, come from being a business with just employing eight people to more than 50 when I was a partner. But the opportunity came to be the MP for Tutin.
Tutin was born and raised in, literally. The MP for Tutin at the Gaggle Tom Cox had been the MP my entire life. I'd never known the MP. I'd never been inside the Chamber of Parliament.
I didn't know any friends who were MPs. I didn't really know any friends in politics, I don't think. I was a councillor in my spare time, serving the local community. As a lawyer in my spare time, I was in my spare time as chair of Liberty, human rights group, chair of legal action group, a legal aid charity group.
The opportunity came to be the MP for Tutin. I couldn't say no, because it was the chance for my community in Parliament. The way I describe it at the time, because people are saying, what are you doing? It doesn't make sense.
I was blessed to have a good legal career. If I want a case for my client, he was she benefited, or if I settled the case. If the case went to one of the high courts, we said a president. A president means other people benefit from the president of the case, because you've changed it all.
That's a big deal. I was blessed to do that. But when you're in Parliament and you're part of the government, you can pass legislation that affects millions of people. Just people in Tutin, but people across our city and our country.
Being the MP for Tutin was why I came up with your career, not to be an MP for MP for MP for MP for Tutin. Why does that matter to you? It's public service. The ability to impact and improve people's lives.
When I left law school, I got to work in the city and I'd be in the city lawyer. But I chose to do the law that I chose to do for a variety of reasons. It's important for me to be a lawyer practicing discrimination issues around police misconduct, issues around employment law, doing litigation sort of cases that I undertook. What motivated me was this issue of action on behalf of the underdog, being the advocate for people I grew up with who were routinely, you know, running with the suss law, stopping search.
People I knew who I'd merely dismissed, people who I was aware of were being discriminated against, you know, acting for the victims of miscarriages of justice. That was important to me. Why? A number of reasons.
My inspiration for being a lawyer is, have you read Tequila Mockingbird? No. We want to be out of Atticus Finch. And then when I watched, when I was growing up with this programme on TV, you'll be able to go to LA Law.
I wanted to be this local Fuentes. Jimmy Smith played this lawyer who was doing the cases. But also, I remember a number of things happened around that time where I felt helpless. You know, the way my dad was treated in his bus car was closing down.
I felt helpless. We couldn't do anything about it. You know, getting a march is fine, but you need to challenge us in the courts if you could. If you couldn't use the court system, you got to change the laws.
You know, seeing Friends Street the way they were. And I thought it's not wrong, but there's no way of helping people who need help. Being a lawyer is a noble thing. I know people.
I know lawyers get a bad rep, you know, some lawyers do a lot of money. But people do the law that I was doing, you know, don't earn a lot of money. Some do. And I was very lucky to do well.
But it's important to me, public service, to actually be half of these people. Who acts on the path of the person who's receiving in a police misconduct? Who acts on the path of the person who's, you know, discriminated on the grounds of their race or gender in the workplace? So what I got from that is your dad was, I'm trying to understand the personal reasons why you chose that path, which is like, you know, like we've all chosen our paths for interesting reasons.
I think a lot of my path was defined by my own insecurities as a kid. What I've heard there is your, the thing about your dad's bus depot being shut down? That's garbage. And then there was some of your friends in your life had experienced certain types of abuse that were because of their race or, but also mistreatment by the police.
That was your personal motivation. Yeah. Yeah. So, so those are my experiences.
My experience ran upwards. You know, actually life isn't always fair. And you need somebody to be there to help you. And it's never been about, you know, it sounds, you know, frankly speaking a bit, you know, wankerish, but it's never been about yourself making money.
None of my siblings have, you know, followed, followed paths, which is interesting. None of us have followed paths where it's been about, you know, making money for money's sake. It's about doing a job we enjoy. I'm trying to give something like where you can, whether it's been a teacher, whether it's being, you know, a coach or whatever.
Over the last 10 years, in your own view, which direction do you think London has gone in, in terms of like safety and in terms of desirability and in terms of world influence over the last, let's say, 10 years? Because I think it's my view that it's probably gone in a negative direction in terms of like influence safety. And yeah, I think generally like the respect of the capital. And I mean, a number of factors have contributed to that.
Obviously the pandemic has been a big one, but then I think generally the knife crime issue issues. And these are all things influenced by biases, right? Because I was, when I moved to London, I was bribed really badly. 3M in the morning, came in my house, stole everything.
We never heard anything back from the police. There was no interest in helping us. So, but just generally I've lived in other parts of the world, you know, lived in the Middle East, lived in, spent time in Dubai, lived in New York for many, many years. New York's not necessarily safe at all, but other parts of the world seem to be much safer.
And it's funny because when I speak to some of my friends who've been successful in business and they talk about why they're leaving the UK, it's one of the top three reasons. It's always safety. It's always I don't feel safe in London. Before I, before we had this conversation, I was listening to, I mean, I can't talk about him being robbed on a high street in London, coming at a restaurant at gunpoint.
You see the football as the Arsenal players all being robbed at knifepoint on mopeds. The girlfriend had her phone snatched out of her hand while walking. You just think, oh, it's not safe to be in London. First, I'm really sorry, I wasn't too distressed.
So, if you look at London over the last 10 years, the last 20 years, even, if you pop Brexit for a second, because we can come back to that relation to the impact of Brexit on London. London is a global city, you know, a lot of go to various metrics, but it's, we didn't talk as well as a global city in relation to foreign direct investment, in relation to the diversity of London, in relation to tourism in London, in relation to retention of talent, in relation to the diversity of our economy, it's not just the financial services, social services, legal services, life sciences, higher education, culture, tech, so forth. So, the online strength is still there, and we are doing incredibly well. We punch well above our weight in relation to the rest of the country.
Because of how well we're doing, we're doing roughly speaking every year, net to the treasury, 42 billion pounds, and it's been going up over the period of time. So, we, you know, as a slice of the national pie, contribute far more than we're supposed to, but remind the size of our city. And this is because we've managed to attract talent and keep talent. That's why I'm here.
Yeah, but the reason why I like go is because it's- So, one of the challenges we've had, post-Brexit is to keep that talent home, and we can talk about some of the stuff we've done to keep it. In relation to safety, it is a fact, and I'm really sorry for your experience generally, because I mean, too many people like you being the victim to crime, but I'm afraid the bad news is, since 2012, and nationally 2013, serious violence has been going up since 2013, across our country, including London, London, separate from the rest of the country and feeling the impact. Now, without excusing criminality, I'm not excusing those people with verbal jazz, by the way, and I'm not saying this from their motivation, but there is a link between- And crime is complex causes, by the way. We're excusing it.
You know, and I believe very simply you're going to do it in two ways. One is to be tough on crime, more pleasing, given the support they need to make sure they do with the criminals. I call it public health approach. I can't explain what I mean.
And tough on the complex causes of crime, relating within the land causes, deprivation, poverty, inequality, and so forth. You can't escape the fact that since 2010, we've had massive austerity in this country. So there have been 21,000 fuel police officers across the country in the last 12 years. That is a fact.
We've got youth clubs that have closed down. Youth centers closed down. Our fuel clubs have not taken place. We've got clubs that have taken place.
Unemployment has gone high until recently and so forth. I'm not excusing it. I'm explaining it. And so, you know, when I became mayor, one of the things I promised London is I would do is to be straight with Londoners about the problems in relation to- I was quite close straight away saying, listen, these cuts are consequences.
And we've got to recognize their consequences. So I'm going to use the limited powers I have and raise council tax. That's one lever to bring money in and use it to pay for more police officers. And I was excited doing so, but I had to do it because of your experience was when I had too many times before.
So we've paid for 1,300 more officers, not enough. But it's what I can do. There's a limited average council tax to its aggressive tax. But also use business rates money to open up youth clubs again.
Youth centers, employee youth workers, have summer schemes. We have now 32,000 mentors. We're going to get to 100,000 of the next two, three years. Mentors are crucial in my view.
And the good news. I'm not complacent at all. And the mayor cards experience was also awful. It was the good news is we have bucked the national trend.
So across the country, homicides are going up in London. They're going down. We've reduced homicides, knife crime, gun crime, teenage homicides, burglary since I became there, knowing they're low enough because we've got to invest more in the police and invest more in the cause of crime. I'm not talking about public health approach.
What I mean by that is this. Think of crime as you would a public health issue. What would you do? You deal with the infection.
You've got to kill the infection. Right? More peace officers. You've got to arrest people.
You've got to stop the infection spreading. Really important. We stop the crime spreading. People think that you can be successful by being a criminal.
We've got to stop it. We've got to stop the infection occurring in the first place. Stop the crime occurring in the first place. And, you know, it's a source of pride to me.
We've not made the progress. But our policies, being tough on crime, invest in the police, and we are forming police at the same time. But also, investing in young people is leading to the turn around in London. And we've bucked the national trend in London.
And it's a global city. Sorry. It's a global city. You speak to it as I do regularly.
The mayor of New York. The mayor of Chicago. The mayor of LA. Those are our comparisons.
I would just like to feel really safe. I want to go to other places. If you go to somewhere in the Middle East or Dubai, whatever it might be, you feel exceptionally safe. You can leave your wallet on the floor here and it would still be there later when you come back and do that in London.
You know, not only have you lost your wallet, you've probably come back and lost your shoes or something. It's also a great charity to get lost in. London doesn't quite like that. I don't think they feel safe.
I don't think people feel safe. No, no, no. And more so if you're all going to go. If you think you don't feel safe, one of the big challenges that we've got is making sure that women and girls feel safe.
Is this all solvable? Without a doubt. We saw in the 2000s, you know, between 1997 and, you know, the mid-noughties, huge progress made in reducing crime. And it was dealing with two things.
I said, you know, tough in crime, tough in the courses, you invest in policing. But also investing with the courses of policing. It definitely solved. We've made progress in the past.
We're making progress in London. And now we've got to make sure at the same time, of course, you know, we've reformed the police. We'll publicize issues in policing. London has got to be the eyes in the years.
There are some amazing citizens in London who, you know, would return the wallet to you. You know, if you'd have to, you know, if you'd lost it left around in London, we'll report something taking place. We'll come forward if they're with themselves for crime. We'll come forward and support the police that are victim of crime.
We'll join the police service. These problems are definitely solvable. We've done it in the past. We're doing it now.
And the possibility, you know, in the not just the future of a, you know, changing government and a government that invests in public services. It definitely solved. On one of the points you made there about the infection spreading, I thought it was quite compelling. I was reading about the story of, I think it's Hars Rat Twelly, the story of an 18-year-old guy who was in Twickenham, was approached by a 16-year-old kid, ended up being stabbed to death by an 18-inch knife because he got into an argument with this person.
And when that 16-year-old stabbed him to death was asked, he said he stabbed him because he was, people in his life had been victims of knife crime. And he thought he was scared that would have a knife himself. That's the infection you're talking about. Yes.
The place that happens is, some young people I speak to will think the way to be safe is to carry a knife because they suspect you might be carrying knife, right? And so we've got to get this across, like, you know, leaving it home with a knife doesn't make you more safe and make you less safe. So if you go to a primary school, not a secondary school, a primary school across the country, by the way, and you have a classroom of 30 people, and you say, how many of you know somebody carrying the knife, you'll be shocked the number of hands to go up in a primary school, right? A secondary school is even higher.
And so there is this belief amongst young people that carrying the knife makes you more safe, not less safe. And by the way, I went to a tough secondary school, lots of fights. Nobody even thought about taking a knife to school, right, or getting involved with knives at all. And, you know, so we've got to deal with that issue at source, to make sure young people are in the danger school, speaking to young people, people with credibility.
You've got to have somebody who's, the message carrier needs to be somebody who kids respect and will listen to, right? And so getting people to go into schools to explain the dangers, sometimes it's a bereaved mum. A bereaved mum can be really effective in explaining the story about her son, and the danger of carrying the knife. So we're going to stop at source.
We're also going to make sure, frankly speaking, that there's intelligence to stop and search. Because if you're carrying the knife, I want you to be stopped and searched. If you're a knife, I want you to be stopped and searched. If you're a knife, I want you to be taken off you.
I would make progress in taking knives off people, which is saving lives. Weapon sweeps is really important. But also, if you're caught carrying the knife, there's got to be serious sentences. There's got to be a consequence if you're carrying that knife.
And that's why we've got these conversations. That's why it's the public health approach. And it is leading to huge reductions. You know, in the last year, we've had a 55% reduction in internal homicides.
Not enough. Not enough. One is one too many. A few homicides last year, then when I first became mayor, not enough, but we're making progress.
Because the investment is now starting to pay dividends in relation to youth clubs, youth work, going into schools, more police officers. There was a big drop in knife crime, wasn't there? Was it 2020, were they? So the pandemic, we saw reduction in a number of reasons, obviously, for three months, people, but there was lockdown and stuff.
And that's progress. We've carried on. It's like going down before the pandemic. We first started investing.
It's called the Young London Fund in about 20, 18, 19. It takes some time to youth workers back employed, youth centers back open. And also young people starting to have these points landed on them. It's not, you know, like a moment to take time to spend time with them.
That's why mentors are so important. Who's not made the point at the beginning, Stephen, about you as a role model is? You know, I'm a firm believer and you can't, you can't beat if you can't see it, right? I was lucky.
I was lucky that I saw it at home. My mum working really hard, my dad working really hard. My big brother's working really hard. I had role models.
A lot of young people haven't got that role model at home. The youth work, he's that role model. A youth work is an amazing asset to a young person if you've not got that role model at home. In relation to a big brother, a friend, somebody who can ring up, somebody who can give you careers advice.
You know, a lot of young people don't have to put up a tie, right? They don't have to shave. Can't go for a job interview. Those soft skills were teaching young people.
Now you may think, why are you teaching young people on soft skills? Because they need those soft skills. Right? When I've grown up since last year, there wasn't it?
No, it's gone down. So basically, my friends gone down since I became there. Since last year? No, Robert's got up a bit.
Robert's got up a bit for a number of reasons we're dealing with. That's not me. Yeah. Robert's when you're, yeah.
Oh, I was about, I don't know. Robert's voted with violence. Right. My last question about topic is, do you think London's safe?
Yeah, I do. Because my comparator isn't with respect Bali or Dubai. My comparator is in New York, Chicago, those cities because we're a global city, Stephen. You know, we're not, we're not Cheshire.
Right. And so, you know, but if it's not safe for you, it's not safe for me. I speak to too many women and girls. They say it's not safe.
I speak to too many women in particular who say they're imposing a curfew themselves. Not to go at nighttime because they don't feel safe. In that case, it's not safe. I speak to too many, you know, people who are worried about their safety and, you know, perception is important here because it's fear of crime that you're talking about because you're experienced, right?
And you'll speak to your friends. I don't believe it. They'll be apprehensive and scared. So it's a problem for me because we've got to address it.
Women and girls. There's been a lot of talk recently about instances of police officers who have attacked raped women and girls on the streets of London. What are you doing about that to prevent that happening going forward? So, you know, the last few years has been at last publicly given to the fact that every three days across our country, a woman is killed in the hands of a man every three days.
That's a sobering fact. Recently we've seen, which is the tragic murders of Sarah Everard, you know, Zara Alina, you know, Bieber and Nicole, you know, and many others to be Vanessa. But also we've seen people who we trust to keep us safe, peace officers, police officers, people we go to when we're a victim of crime being involved in the most serious crimes possible. Sarah Everard was abducted by a man using his warrant card, raped and killed by a serving police officer.
We had David Carrick, somebody who had been a police officer almost 20 years, we discovered that most of his 20 years had been a prolific sexual offender using the fact he's a police officer to commit some of those crimes. But also, it appears there were opportunities for the police during the vetting process to find out this guy was criminal, and not just stopping being a police officer, but take action against him. My view that I've been making clear for a number of years now and I've been criticized for this is I think there are systemic conflict issues in the police service. One of the reasons why I also was in this conference in the previous commissioner was my lack of of belief in her ability to understand this is an issue, I have a plan to address this, I have a plan to address the confidence of Londoners.
And so, we've got to make sure we have a reforming commissioner doing this job unless the guy at the top or the woman at the top understands the problem. I don't want to fix it. I think the new commissioner needs deputy, understands the problem and I've got a plan to fix it. They're taking on board the recommendations from an outsider.
You can't mark your own homework. You need somebody else to look into things, tell you how bad things are, make recommendations and follow the truth. We've got an outsider, Louise Casey, talking to us again on the police service, she's published an interim report, the commissioner's accepted all the findings, she will now publish her final report later on this year. We need to change the rules around how police officers are employed.
So, if any of your staff had a nickname, the bastard, the rest questions for you, right? Why is this guy's nickname amongst his colleagues, the bastard? All other nicknames that police officers involved in this stuff have had. No action taking against them.
Because it's very difficult for the commissioner and others to get rid of dodgy officers, the regulations make it difficult. But we're not necessarily in all cases for a criminal prosecution, we're asking for those officers to be at least sacked. So, we're lobbying the government to change the regulations to make it easier for the commissioner to get rid of dodgy officers. We've set up a hotline for people to ring in and police officers can ring in and dodgy people to other officers.
From Seahull, without government support, from Seahull, we're investing more money in ramping up the vetting processes, right? This guy should have been spotted a mile away. I've also asked the commissioner, he was his idea to be fair, to go back ten years and look at every single time a police officer has had a complaint against them of this nature to see if any other opportunities missed with other officers. We've also got a new unit which we invested in an anti-abuse and corruption unit.
But my view is this, by the way, in London, we've shut a spotlight on this. But there are other police forces around the country where, you know, I'm sure there are other issues where that spotlight's not been shown yet. And so it's really important for us to recognise these systemic cultural issues. Your math skills have global potential.
As an actuary, you'll solve some of the world's most pressing problems while helping people to live better lives. Become an actuary through the Society of Actuaries and work anywhere in the world. Across our country, that demand addressing. What's been your hardest day as London Mayor?
There's been a few. I think Grenfell Tower. I still remember the images, I still remember the heat. I went to a lot of funerals.
That summer was hard. I still remember the families that I see and often. And whenever I see them, it comes back. But Grenfell was just, it was just, it still sticks with me because it could have been us.
It could have been us. It's Councillor's Day. Diversity's Day. Lovely community.
Those families are going to be the same again. And every time I go there and spend time with the families, you just think about what these families are going through. One family, six people, wiped out. Another 11-year-old child who'd won an essay competition.
And you know, when you speak to those who were the judges, she would have gone on to being, you know, this amazing woman lost their life in that fire. And so that 2017 was hard because we also had at the same time the awful five Grenfell and number of terror attacks in London, London Bridge, Westminster Bridge, things we park. That summer was hard, you know, because I spent a lot of time, I liked, I liked, I think, it's important for me to spend time with brief families. So when I was an MP, when I was a lawyer, I spent a lot of time with brief families with my clients.
When I was an MP, there was a homicidal tuting. I would meet the families, ask me the families. When I became there, I started a practice where whenever there was a homicidal in London, I would write to the family and say, obviously my condolences would give them my details and meet with the families. After Grenfell, you know, it's a lot of families and those families' stories stay with you and I'm just in contact with a lot of them.
That summer, June 2017, you referenced the London Bridge attacks as well where, I think, three men in a van, ran to the sidewalk, then jumped out with knives and killed, I think, eight people in total in Borough Market. When you see this happening, you're at home, right? 10pm at night, you're watching the telly, you see this happening. What goes on in your head?
So just to reassure people watching, so we do a lot of preparation, a lot of practice, a lot of planning on those sorts of things. So you see, you try and you're never ready for it, but you try to do your kind of advance to understand it. I'm not a piece of it, I'm not in my five. I'm not counter-terror, but I'm the piece where I'm committed to understand what you're doing so I can understand your job.
I've always tried to understand what you're doing so I can be a help, not hindrance. When it happens, there's a lot of uncertainty in all the time that's going on, but the good news is, our police and other partners are trained for the phrases, and we learn from other countries when this happens. So the first time this sort of terror tactic was used, that's well known about, was in Delhi a number of years ago. So our police have learnt what's happened there.
So we practice a lot of stuff in relation to what firearms team we're doing in the situation, what the police response will do, what my role is going to be, where I should be and so forth. And also, you've got to give assurance to Londoners, you can't play into the terrorist hands. So what does a terrorist want you to do? A terrorist wants to terrorize you and have panic spreading, changing behaviour in a way that's perverse and so forth.
So it's really important, the response I have to a terror attack, because I could inadvertently be playing into the hands of the terrorist. What is emotion coming into this? You're seeing carnage, you're seeing death. Is there a place for emotion in all of that?
In real time, there really can't be. In real time, there can't be. That sort of stuff. There can't be when it comes to a firing or anything, which is a different sort of thing.
But because people are looking to provide leadership, and panic isn't good leadership. And so one of the reasons why I've asked for them, we've had the practice, the preparation, the planning is to make sure there isn't panic and there isn't emotion, because you've got to make rational decisions and provide reassurance in a core calm way. You can't go to a cover meeting and be hysterical. You've got to explain the facts, what you've ascertained, what you're going to do, what was it going to be devoted, what you're going to be stopped, and so forth.
Another important thing in London, in that sort of context, even, is we can't afford to happen. There's reprisals, right? People wrongly think in everyone's terms of terrorist. We saw in America post 9-11, you know, somebody wearing a turban, attacked and killed, because people thought wrongly, it was involved in terrorism in 9-11.
So that's part of reshoring the community attention as well. After that incident happened, Donald Trump came out and made some disparaging comments about, I guess, about you in London, really kind of mocking what you'd said. How do you feel about that? I mean, from my point of view, it's incredibly bizarre behavior for a world leader to be taking such a stance after it, such a tragedy.
But how did that feel on that day? Emotionally. It was odd. Let me see what I saw.
There's basically an understanding we have. There are certain cities and certain parts of the world are talking of terrorists, because of our values, because of our way of life and so forth. And so there's a solidarity with what happened in Paris. You know, we saw it in 9-11.
Other examples around the world are mentioned. You know, events of your area and the grandic concert and so forth. And so there's always a sense of solidarity. And you'll see world leaders.
You know, mayors know this. Send a message of solidarity. And it's unusual. It's exceptional, actually, for particularly our closest ally, right?
It's a special relationship. You saw our primary response to 9-11. You know, Tony Blair, George Bush. And you've done what Trump was one of the way he does.
And let me frank, you know, if the Maryland wasn't, you know, somebody of my background, my faith and so forth, and he didn't have the views he had about people of my faith and my background, he wouldn't respond the way he did what he did. Has that played a role in how people have treated you in terms of, on the other side of the aisle, people have political views. Do you think so? Now, I'm reflecting now on much of what Meghan Markle said about how, like, the institutional, how it claims about institutional racism impacting the way she was treated by the press and by the institution itself.
But when I think about you being, you know, probably Britain's most famous Muslim, you are the mayor of London. Do you believe that there has been instances, and there are just generally a bias because you are a Muslim yourself. And how does that rear its head on, like, a day-to-day, month-to-month basis? Well, looking backwards, I mean, I'm sure you've read about my first election campaign in 2016, right?
My faith was used against me by my opponents. You know, you're kind of a Muslim, a mayor. Links with terrorism, so forth, so forth. For no other reason, but because of, to be frank, my faith, right?
And that's why it's important to win. Because had I not won, if you're a nation or a Muslim, or whatever you think I want to say, it's not possible to be the mayor of London because your faith tells you back. And that's why winning was important for other reasons as well. But, you know, the thing about our city is, and obviously, the prejudice is against the religion that I practice because a minority of terrorists do bad things using the name of Islam.
This city voted for just an ethnic minority, not just a religious minority, but the religion he belongs to is Islam, which is wonderful about our city, not just tolerating difference, respecting and embracing and celebrating it as well. But I can't escape the fact that, you know, being a Muslim, when we're living in a climate of Islam, phobia has challenges as well. It's not a secret, so I'm not divulging any breaches of, you know, national security. The Christchurch shooter in New Zealand, you know, referenced me in his diatribe, I'm not giving equivalents to Donald Trump in relation to terrorists, but Donald Trump for a period of time was obsessed with me.
And so that leads to, you go to social media, some of the stuff that I get on social media, right? You go to some of the far-right groups, some of the stuff I received there. Some of the, you know, in virtue of mainstream journalists who use me as a clickbait, they know they use my name, it's going to track traffic to their social media channel. They know that.
But of course it is, right, because we know that there's a currency. There's a currency, right? You know, and we know from the end of the day, you know, and we know for reasons that, you know, aren't fair to Muslims. They're vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority.
You know, live in the West, love the West, Laura Biden and so forth. The action of the minority means we're all able, we're all demonizing. So I was reading the Independent, and they were talking about the death threats you'd received on social media. You'd come out and talk about some of the comments that people had made to you, calling you a, words that I probably can't even repeat, and I won't repeat, but very derogatory, racist, homosexual at times, terminology towards you, which oftentimes included death threats.
The Independent had written an article showing what those threats were. Have you ever felt like your safety was at risk? Yeah, it's been a few times. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's one of the reasons why, you know, I've pleased protection, not because I asked for it. For a year I said no. And in the end, my wife and my chief of staff said you've got to take it.
Why? Because two reasons. Because if I'm out with my family, their personal safety has been compromised, right? I can't have that.
If I'm out with my staff working, their personal safety has been compromised, and I'm not willing to say that risk either. And so, you know, they've been in specific threats. But the problem with police protection is it immediately just wants an 80. So it came about cheap.
I'm not, you know, the police officer's on the cheap with me, right? You wouldn't know they were there, you know, and so forth. But they've got to be with me when I go to a restaurant, when I go to the cinema, and I'm walking my dog when I'm going on the cheap, right? And so it restricts my ability to just, you know, have you ever been genuinely worried about your safety?
A couple of times. Yeah. There was a occasion where, yeah, there'd be a number of occasions. I don't want to give them the credit by making them.
I was scared and worried about my safety because they don't think they can do it again, but there have been occasions. Even with police protection. I'm not part of a brilliant, you know, but I've asked them to just keep a distance. I don't want to be next to me like I'm a celebrity or the Prime Minister.
You know, I like the fact that I'm an all Joe and I try to be as much as I can, but there have been times, yeah, of course they have as mayor, but there have been times I've been one of us here before as mayor, you know. And that's, you know, 9-11 was traumatic for a variety of reasons. Thousands of people I said I was just awful. What it did, though, was it gave permission for people to treat all of us in a way that I had not experienced before.
So when I was growing up, the P word, the N word, the W word, was sometimes used. And, you know, my wife, friends, my friends and me knew that was like, we see the red mist and they'd be fine, right? But it was never about faith. And I'm not saying one is better than the other and stuff, right?
But something happened where it became about faith and the homophobia stuff. And there is still a great sense of solidarity in relation to people still defending who are Muslims and stuff, right? What it does is a number of things. Firstly, if you're a mum or dad and you're Muslim and you're some of those things about Korean politics or public life, you say, you know, well, someone likes that he can't get in that sort of stuff.
I don't want you to get involved in politics. Or, and this happens a lot. If you're somebody who wants to amplify my social media or be supportive, and you do it, and then you get this di-tribe of hate because you've done that, there's two responses. And nine out of ten people say, I had no idea that you received that stuff.
How can I help? One out of ten people say, you know what? This is a bit too much. I'm not going to actually...
Has that affected you personally? Sleepless nights. In relation to hate abuse. I want to make sure my wife and kids are safe.
I want to make sure they're safe. At the moment, I've got the... I'm lucky. I've got a...
Please stretch it in. Give me safe, right? But we, you know, the city halls, you know, receives threats. And, you know, so this...
Ridiculous situation where, because of the hatred against me, people are writing lots of emails to city hall staff who, in the previous 16 years, have not this. They've had an effort since 2000. And we've been able to provide our staff. And this is not ridiculous.
The ridiculous place. That's receiving the hatred. But we've got a duty to our staff, right? Our staff are traumatized.
Upset. All the rest of it. So we now got to support our staff in ways never done before. So that worries me.
In fact, my staff reading the staff emails reading letters that come in. They mentioned my staff reading the social media. They mentioned my family reading this stuff. I'm not going to allow anybody to change my behaviour.
I will not cower. But also, I will not let you know if you're bullying me, that I feel it. So even if I was being affected, I'm not. I wouldn't tell the guys that I'm being affected because it gives them...
It gives them some confidence. It gives them comfort. It means they've won. We're going to do that.
But in this kind of medium, I think there is value in sharing... sharing that because people don't realise, right? So it's a world that we don't know. So we don't care about.
So we don't, as a society, do anything about. Because we don't even know it exists. So often, other things will come into it. But you should have to read.
Just when you get a chance, it's not good for your mental health. But when you get a chance, you just have to look at some of the stuff that people say about me. And it's all bots, by the way. Because I can tell you, I've had a piece of me and it affected me.