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CarGurus dot-C-A. I'm Richard Serrett. Join me on Strange Planet for in-depth conversations with the world's top paranormal investigators, alien abductees, Bigfoot trackers, monster hunters, time travelers, and more. The handler one day told her this whole thing about how they've been terraforming on Mars, and they're building a colony and they're recruiting specific people with specific bloodlines and specific talents and skill sets to go onto the planet.
On Richard Serrett's Strange Planet, we're redefining reality. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. And you don't need to win shit. Unless, of course, you're into that sort of thing.
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Hello kids. This is RISK. The show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm John Hodgman, and this is the Bad Plus behind me now.
Your usual host Kevin Allison couldn't be here today. Unfortunately, Kevin was hospitalized after a nearly fatal overdose on butts. But that's not true at all. The real story is this is Max Fun Switcheroo week.
For just one week, all the podcasts of the Max Fun Network have switched hosts. So my own show, Judge John Hodgman, has been usurped by the hosts of the One Bad Mother podcast. And Kevin is busy helming the hilarious show, International Waters. So if you can't make it through just one week without hearing Kevin complaining about not being able to find a kinky enough Asian boyfriend or about being sober vegan and hating it, he's probably doing that right over there right now.
It just so happens this week also marks this podcast birthday. This week, RISK is a walloping six years old for 255 episodes of RISK, with an exclamation point that's been bringing you the uncensored stories too sexy, too scary, or too anything else to be aired on broadcast radio. If you're new to the show, keep in mind that the name of the series itself is a sort of trigger warning, because real life is about to be right up in your ears in a big way. We're calling this episode Shake-Ups because all three of our storytellers today found themselves completely disoriented by surprise turns in their lives.
In a little bit, we're going to hear a story that Cowley Talil told last week when RISK was in Portland, but before that, one from comedian Sarah Skilling in Seattle. Here's Sarah now with the story we call The Mountaineer. Hello. I was going to try and change the names in the story, but I would mess it up.
So if you're here, I'm sorry, it should happen. It was 2003. I was a 22-year-old virgin. It wasn't because I wanted to.
Like, no one asked. And I was one of those people that always had really severe crushes on my best guy friends, but I never said anything because I was scared to be heartbroken. So I had a lot of really good guy friends and a lot of really intense crushes, but no sex. I had planned out how I was going to lose my virginity.
I had so much time. I just imagined a really hippie, dirty, like teenager's bedroom, and touched me by the doors I was going to play. And since it's only like two minutes and 34 seconds long, it was going to go and repeat until we got to it. But that's how it happened.
So in 2003, my friend Jennifer called me and asked me to be a bridesmaid in her wedding. And I said yes, because we were friends. Jennifer is kind of a down-to-earth person. She doesn't talk that much.
She's not sure she's listening half the time because she doesn't react. But we had a Ryan-Philippi fan club, Injener High. We made shirts and watched his movies. So she was cool, boy crazy.
And then she called me and she just got engaged to Brandon, who was another guy we went to school with. And he was, I want to say popular, but when I think about popular, I think about like Dick's. So he was super nice. He was also like the school mascot.
Like he wore the costume. He was like the party starter. I don't know how to describe it. He was super energetic, nice, everyone.
So they were a couple. But they decided to get married. And they asked me to be a bridesmaid and I was like sure, I'll do it. So we hung out the three of us a bunch.
We would go to Kangaroo Farm, though there if you have his in Arlington. So I said yes to be a bridesmaid. That was good. Flash forward to about three months before the wedding.
I'm going to WSC over in Pullman. They still live over in Kirkland, where I'm from. And they invite me. They're like, hey, we're having a bridal shower.
So you know, you should come over for it. And I was like, all right, cool. So I drove over from Pullman. And the plan was to spend the night at their place and go to the thing the next day.
So I got to their place. We ate dinner, drank a lot, played drunk Jenga. Yeah. Still got super, super plastered.
And at one point, I think it was midnight. I was like, you know what? We should totally go jump in the pool. Because they had like a living apartment complex, native complex pool.
Jumping in pools. So we run downstairs, jump in the pool with our clothes on, run back upstairs. Neighbors are pissed because we're so loud. And then once we get back to the apartment, we're all just like drooping wet and cold.
And Brandon's like, you know what? We should get in the shower because we can like turn on the water and warm up. It's like, okay, that makes sense. I'm drunk.
So we get in the shower and we're the water's on. We're warming up. We're taking turns in front of the faucet. And then Brandon takes off Jennifer's shirt and starts sucking on her nipples.
And like, yeah, I know. As shocking as it was for you, it was that shocking for me. I was like, what the fuck is going on? But I was like watching a porn happen in front of me.
I was like, okay, yes, yes, I know what happens. So then he's like, you should take off your shirt. I was like, okay. So, and I was totally into it.
I was like, yes, yes, Ann. Very improv, yes, Ann. So they took off my shirt and then him and Jennifer each took a tit. And that was pretty awesome.
And I might mention, I wasn't just a virgin. I had never done anything with anyone. I never been negative from a guy, never given a blow job. I never probably French kissed someone for more than like five seconds.
Like, I did nothing. But I knew all about it. So, so I was so ready for this. And so, yeah, so we were all making out in the shower.
And then we decided to take it to the bedroom. So we went into their bedroom and we started to have like an actually like a really mature conversation about what was about to happen, you know, because they're like, you know, well, first Jennifer pulled out some porn. I don't know why. She decided on her bed.
She's like, I like girls. I'm like, all right, that's cool. She's like, and then they're like, we've always wanted to have a threesome. I think it'd be fun to do it with you.
And I was like, all right, okay, cool. So, um, Brandon went to get a condom and, um, man, it was, it was like, I felt like I was climbing Mount Rainier with like no mountaineering experience, you know, like this. It's gonna take it to the top. Um, so, uh, let's see, I went down on him.
That was weird. It was like the first time I'd seen like a dick up close and it was all right. And you know, like sucking on a dick is as hard as it looks. Like, it's a lot of work, a lot of breathing, a lot of posturing.
And then, um, then Jennifer went down on me, which was awesome. I mean, who doesn't want someone doing that to them? Um, it feels great. And so, but, and then during it, Brandon was like, that's Jennifer.
That's Jennifer. You're feeling, which is kind of weird, but um, whatever. So then I went down on Jennifer. And that was another thing.
I was like, okay, this is awesome because like, I'm gonna figure out what all the guys would like complain about or whatever. It was fucking awesome. So it was like, wet, slimy, you know, like we all of us tasted like chlorine because it was, we just got the pool. So it was, I felt like it was a clean experience.
Um, and so then it was time for penis and vagina. And so I got on my back and as Brandon got on top of me, I just started laughing uncontrollably. I could not, again, believe that shit was happening to me right now. So yeah, sex kind of felt like a tampon, to be honest, which is what I guess I thought it would be like, but then it was a little more pleasurable, you know, it got better.
And so we were having a time like Brandon was on top me and Jennifer, you know, was like over there watching or something. It's going good. And then Jennifer screams, no Brandon, finish on me. And that was kind of a party killer, you know?
Because then I kind of just started like coming to a realization of like, what the fuck I was doing right now? You know, like I'm going to be a bridesmaid in these people's wedding in like three months. So I was like, you know what? Um, I'm just going to go, I'm going to sleep on the couch and they're like, no, you should stay in here.
I'm like, no, it feels like you need some time alone. I'm just going to go see on the couch. So I left the room and kind of just processed my life through the night as a woman now. And then, and then the worry started, even though we did use protection, I was like, Oh my God, what if I'm pregnant?
Oh my God, I'm going to be the pregnant bridesmaid at the wedding. And they're going to be like, who's the dad? Because I obviously go with a boyfriend and I'm going to be like, it's the groom. Like, that's just so more po-vitch.
So I finally went to sleep next day woke up and they were like, are you all right? Because it kind of left a little abruptly last night. I was like, no, it's fine. It's fine.
It's cool. And I'm like, well, you know, I feel like you should know like, we think that we should probably keep this between the three of us. And I was like, well, of course, except for now. Yeah.
And um, and if you ever want to talk about it, you know, we can talk about it together. I'm like, what? I'm not going to talk to you about this. Like, I remember when you had sex, you guys, like, I just want to talk about it.
But so I was like, all right, cool. So I kind of just drove around all the aimlessly, so wasting time before the bridal shower. And then when I got to the bridal shower, it was like the weirdest thing because I'm surrounded by our entire family now, right? And I'm like, oh, you and Brandon are so cute and just so normal and stuff.
And I'm like, I fucked your daughter last night. I didn't do that, but I can say that, but I thought it. So I made my way through that, got back to school. I know it's a jumping head, but it was fine.
We left on a good note. I got back to school and I have anxiety. So I was still concerned I was pregnant because like, that would happen to me. And so I got so anxious that I'd start to get sick and I'd give myself myself it was morning sickness.
Yeah. So I'm like, I'm pregnant. This is the worst thing that's ever happening when I do. And then I go to the bathroom.
And it's a dorm bathroom, so there's several stalls. Everything's wet. I sit in the stall and I'm just kind of contemplating my life. And I don't know if you know this, sometimes toilet paper gets stuck in vaginas.
It happens. So I'm sitting there and like, I wipe myself and I look down and there's this kind of discolored mound of material in my hand. And in that moment, I convinced myself that that was a miscarriage. And that this was my baby.
My baby with my friends has been outside. And I just started to be like, what the hell? And then and this is like four days after it happens. So it's just like no possible way.
And then I was like tearing it up being like, what the hell? But yeah. So I feel like my logical and emotional mind completely separated at that moment. But the good news is I wasn't pregnant.
Yes. Yes. The wedding was fine. And I have since found several other peaks to climb.
So thank you. Good night. That reminded me, you know, I've only done three ways a couple of times. I tend to be the kind of person who can just only focus on one person at a time.
So I'll be at orgies or whatever and just go off into a corner with one person. But I did want to have this amazing, amazing experience. I went home from a bar in the East Village when I was in my early twenties with this beautiful black guy who invited me to the home of this beautiful Italian guy. And I remember, we'll call the Italian guy Salvator.
That's the problem with three ways is there's oftentimes one person in the mix who's a lot more interested in one of the three people than the other. You have to get the balance just right. And I was way into this Salvator guy. But I was also incredibly impressed that he had because it was, you know, so there were only CDs at that time.
You know, vinyl had kind of gone out of fashion. And he had a CD of everything Miles Davis had ever produced. And I found that so impressive, just like dozens and dozens and dozens of Miles Davis CDs. Well, a couple years ago, I ran into this guy at a bar and he turned out to be a friend of a current friend of mine.
And the three of us are standing there and I said, you know, Salvator, I think you and I were once in a three way together. And he was like, what? No, I don't think so. And I was like, no, no, no, I think I'm pretty sure that he's like, uh, uh, uh.
And I said, hold on a second. Did you use to own every CD that Miles Davis ever produced? And he went ashen faced. And he just mumbled.
Yeah. And walked away. And my other friend was standing there and I said, wow, I think your friend was really disgusted to think he might have ever been in a three way with me. And he said, Oh, was that your interpretation of that?
No, no, no. He's way into free jazz now. I think he's just way over Miles. When I was six years old, I found myself in a set of terrifying circumstances where my two year old brother Cameron's life was literally in my hands.
We lived in a rural town in western Idaho called Weezer. And Weezer was a town that supported crock farming and livestock ranching. The locals referred to the area that surrounded Weezer as the flats and the flats stretched for miles and directions all around Weezer. My mother's father read lived out on the flats in a single wide trailer.
And they often used red as a babysitter for us kids. I remember red as being larger than life. He had a full head of red hair. He was tall.
He was strong. He was loud. And he was no one that you would ever want to make angry. Even my mother, who anyone would tell you is someone who is and was no one to be trifle with didn't want to upset red.
As an example, when I was a child, once I was playing in the yard and I stepped on a cigarette butt that red had to flick into the yard, I was barefoot and it stuck to my skin and burned a hole in it. My mother rushed over to me as I set crying in the grass. She picked me up and she took me over to the porch and I thought it was to examine my wound. But instead she put her face very close to mine and she said in a hushed but stern tone, you need to stop crying right now.
You are upsetting your grandfather. And even though I was a young child, that message was actually pretty clear. So on this particular day, my mother and father needed to go shopping out of town and they took with them my infant brother, but they left myself and my not quite three-year-old brother Cameron with our grandfather right at his house. The routine was pretty steady when Red took care of us.
We played outside in supervise until we got dark or we got hungry. And if you were a kid with imagination, it was okay because the area surrounding Red's house was actually pretty rich. We had the Snake River, we had the surrounding crops, the railroad tracks and the slough at our disposal. And on the summers where the crops were corn, we could actually disappear into our own world.
I like to role play and every time that we role played for me it was the same scenario. We were children, there were no adults and we could and did live off the land just like Daniel Boone or Laura Ingalls would. My brother Cameron and I loved this game and we would play it until it was time to go inside. On this night we went inside just before dark to find food and when we would go inside we knew if Red was in a good mood, he would make us either box, mac and cheese or top ramen and we would get our own Coke in a glass bottle.
But on this night when we opened the door, we found Red sitting at the kitchen table. He was chain smoking, he was drinking and he was reading a novel and as I opened the door I could feel that the trailer was full of his anger. I knew what to do, this wasn't new. I needed to keep us out of a sight.
So I put Cameron on the couch, I turned on the TV and I made us top ramen as quietly as possible. Cameron and I spent that evening watching Wonder Woman eating top ramen and drinking our Coke and glass bottles which we of course pretended were beers. Throughout the evening Red got increasingly angry. Each time he got up to go and get another drink from the kitchen he would curse and swear and he was actually known for cursing and swearing in this arrhythmic fashion.
He carried a dish towel in his back pocket and he would use this dish towel to beat the kitchen counters and the cupboards as he ranted and moved from the kitchen table to the kitchen to get his drink and back again. What I wanted was to turn up the TV so I couldn't hear this anymore but that meant stepping into his view and so I didn't. When my parents returned to town they had a sleeping invent and perishables in the car so they went home first and then they called Red to say that one of them would be on their way to come and pick us up. At that point he insisted on driving his home himself and they agreed to it.
Cameron was sleeping on the couch in a diaper and a t-shirt and to me Red seemed too sleepy to drive. His head kept drooping and when he walked he would trip and so I felt really uneasy. Because of this I carried Cameron to the car myself. I laid him sleeping in the back seat and then I got in the front seat I had a plan in mind and what I was going to do was talk to Red while he drived so that he wouldn't fall asleep.
But as we drove I just couldn't think of anything to say. And on this particular day I was wearing one of my favorite outfits. It was a black dress with yellow flowers all over it. I had a white button-up sweater on these brownie high boots and instead of talking to Red I played connect the dots with the flowers on my dress in my lap.
As he drove Red's head started to bob and then he started to lean towards the right which is where I was sitting in the front seat and then he would jerk back up and the car would swear if he did it each time. And then one time I see leaned over it actually felt like he was just gonna lay his head in my lap and fall asleep and then he jerked himself back up and the car kind of swerved all over the road and I thought I got to figure out something to say to keep him awake. And so the last time that his head drooped over in a desperate attempt to say something I blirted out today we learned a new song in school. And while his head was leaning over to the right he actually looked directly in my face so we were a couple inches apart as he drove down the highway.
In the dark his breath smelled like beer in an ashtray and he said what? And then I was upside down stuck inside of a box and the box was dark and there were sharp things inside of the box that poked me every time I moved and the only sound in the world was camera screaming. I couldn't figure out what was happening. My mind was fuzzy and it was hard to breathe.
I thought my eyes were open but I couldn't see anything and so I decided maybe I wasn't awake and it was okay to go back to sleep and so I did. And then camera was screaming again. I became aware that my chin was stuck to my chest and maybe that was why it was hard to breathe and my body wasn't following basic instructions like get up and move and panic set in. I ignored the pain that came from the sharp things poking me every time I moved and I began to shift and turn and crawl and eventually I was able to look up and when I did stars I could see stars.
And so I crawled towards the stars to this maze that I was stuck in until I was on top and I was outside and it was dark and then I remembered. It was dark when we left. It was dark when Red was driving us home. Red must have wrecked the car but there was no sign of Red and I was looking around and still camera was screaming and I realized Cameron needed my help and so I dropped back into this maze and I was standing inside of the maze and I was calling out to Cameron but he wasn't answering me.
He continued to scream and his screams were kind of mixed with this crying and this moaning and I can only see as far as I could reach and so I moved through this maze that was actually the wreckage of Red's car and I just got to the back end of the wagon and there I found Cameron and he was lying on his side and he was curled up in a ball and he was screaming and he was covered in this black liquid. I touched him and I told him I was there and I told him it was going to be okay and I picked him up and he didn't answer me and he didn't talk to me but he did stop screaming and so with Cameron heavy in my arms I stepped through what had been the back window of Red's car into the dark night. Everything was confusing and everything felt really hard. I was standing in the gravel on the side of the road and just moving from the gravel to the side of the road but like this special challenge but I got up onto the road and I held Cameron and still no sign of Red and Cameron was so little and he was so injured and I was so scared that he was going to die.
Out on the flats in the dark like that there were no landmarks for me to figure out where I was. It was 1981 there were no cell phones there was no on-star and there were no streetlights and that was alone and I stood there holding Cameron for what felt like a very long time and I knew the railroad tracks were in front of me and I knew if I kept the railroad tracks to my left I could walk into town and I could find someone to help us and I knew my left from my right because my left ring finger had warts on it and so I decided to walk to town and I began to walk and Cameron was at the same time so heavy and so little and so still and I repeated to myself in my head as I walked don't die don't die please don't die I knew the black liquid was blood and that made me feel like I needed a puke but there was nowhere soft and safe to lay Cameron down and there was no way for me to rest and I didn't know how I was going to make it to town but I thought I would just walk until I did. Even though there were no signs of any cars I decided to walk in the middle of the road so no one could drive past us. I knew between me and town there was a farm that had a couple of mean German shepherds and I started to worry about them.
They were known for running into the highway and chasing cars. I prayed they were locked up at night and I thought if they were locked up at night I could go to that farmhouse and I could ask for help but if they were out I needed a plan. I needed a way to get past them without getting attacked and so I made this plan in my mind that I would put the railroad tracks between myself and these dogs and maybe they wouldn't want to cross the railroad tracks because they were afraid of trains and they wouldn't attack us and it was about that time that way in the distance I could see carlights and I thought please please don't turn off please keep coming and it was about then that I heard red from behind me calling my name and I went from feeling the sense of hope to the sense of dread that now I had to deal with red. I turned around and I saw him he was walking towards us down the road he had this funny slant about him he was sort of leaning forwards he was sort of leaning to the side and he was calling to me to come back to him and I turned from him back to the headlights Cameron needed help Cameron was dying I was going towards the headlights and I continued to walk in the road towards the headlights and I could hear right behind me God damn it Callie get back here now get off the road and I looked back again I couldn't have thought at the time but now looking back he kind of looked like a walker from the walking dead and I thought maybe he won't catch me and I need to get help and I continue to walk towards the headlights as the headlights came towards us I thought to myself the lights will catch me before the car hits me so they can stop and if they are going to turn off maybe they'll see me in the distance and they'll keep coming so I ignored red carrying Cameron who was silent towards these headlights just before the car got to me which didn't turn off red caught up and he yanked Cameron from my arms he nearly fell over as he did I started begging him please give him back please give him back to me but red wouldn't listen and he wouldn't give him back to me I felt like Cameron was so little and he was so frail that if red dropped him he would die instantly when he hit the pavement as the car pulled up the driver's side window rolled down and it was this little old lady who was by herself when she saw what was happening she exclaimed that we needed to go to the hospital now red was leaning in he was holding Cameron and and they began to argue because red said he wanted to ride home to his house not to the hospital I stood behind red and I was so terrified that my chest hurt I didn't know what to do and the adults were arguing I was listening to the way that red was talking to the lady and I was familiar I'd seen him do it many times before the swearing and the tone he always got his way when he spoke this way towards people I didn't know what to do as red argued with the lady telling her that we needed to go home to his house and not to the hospital he was holding Cameron sort of like a baby Cameron's neck was resting in the creek of red's left elbow he was trying to hold him but his right arm had kind of almost on straight and so Cameron's body was dropping well below red's waist what I didn't know at the time and I know now red actually had a fractured cervical spine from this accident though it was mildly displaced he had a broken neck when all this was going on and it accounted for his severe right-sided weakness in that slant that I was witnessing he was telling the lady that if she wasn't going to take his home she just drive the hell on down the road I couldn't let her drive away and I could see that she was scared but as they argued I moved up beside red and I was able to get Cameron's legs and then I got a lot of his body and as red turned to me to tell me to stop I was able to get the rest of Cameron and I kind of stumbled backwards and I was able to actually open the back seat driver's side door and sort of fall into the car and once I had Cameron and myself in the car I locked the door inside the car I noticed her interior was red and I thought this is good at least Cameron's blood is not going to ruin her car red was standing outside the car and he yelled at me god damn it get out of the car Cali I couldn't look at him and so I looked straight ahead it was probably the nicest car I've ever been inside of and I started focusing on the details inside of the car her front seats had these fluffy seat covers it smelled like flowers it was even decorated inside and I was not going to get out Cameron's skin was white he was silent and he was covered in blood the lady said to red please get inside we don't want to leave you here but I'm taking the children and so red decided he would get inside and he would come into town with us but I wasn't going to unlock my door I didn't trust him and I didn't believe he wouldn't just pull us out of the car I made him walk around the car and get in on the other side once he was in the car though red began to browbeat this woman again she was afraid of him he told her to take us to his house like he said finally she said I'll take you to your house but when I get home I'm calling the authorities and red said I don't give a good goddamn what you do after you drop us off at my house as we began to drive towards red's home red looked at me and said I can't see you tell her how to get there and I don't know why but I decided to let her drive past his house and then I let her do it three more times I had this knowing the camera would die if we went back to red's house that night and red said to me we have to get to my house I need to bathe your brother before your mother sees him somewhere in these driving back and forth up the flats the lady got the courage to say I'm driving into town I'm taking you to the hospital and as we drove towards town red said don't take us to the hospital take us to their house we actually lived on the edge of town where you would have to drive past our house anyways and as we got close to our house I could see that my parents car was in the driveway and I started screaming it's okay it's okay it's okay take us to my mom and dad their home and as she pulled into the driveway before the car even stopped I jumped out and I was running to the house and I was screaming for my mom and dad when they realized what had happened panic ensued when they saw my brother it shot to a whole new level everyone jumped in the car to drive to the hospital and we left red still refusing care in our driveway I understand now he didn't want his level of intoxication documented in association with what happened that night when we got to the hospital everyone swarmed around my brother and took him away my mom wanted to be with them but they told her that she had to wait until my parents set in silence the waiting room was so big and it was so bright and I didn't know what to do with myself inside a chair in the corner and I hid behind it a nurse found me there and she took me to see a doctor and she got me a juice and she told me that my brother was going to be okay and there were many stories that were born from that night we talked about how red hit loose gravel how the car blew a tire and despite his best efforts it flipped anyways we talked about how red stuck his arm out to save me from going through the windshield which caused him to go through instead and those were the results of his severe injuries we talked about what a miracle it was that red was able to carry camera down the road and flag down a car to get help even though he had a broken neck nobody was able to tell the truth that I just told you guys tonight thank you this is risk I'm your special guest host john hodgman from the judge john hodgman podcast here for maximum funds switcheroo week and this is any man behind me now I mean I received word that kevin alson has wrapped up guest hosting the latest episode of international waters but he still couldn't make it here to join me for this mid-episode hosting segment because he sprained his neck under a rim chair at the dads and lads wet and wild p-party in china town oh how many times have I said that since now we just heard from callee towel at the recent risk live show in portland callee was a first-time storyteller just like monica welty in last week's episode they both lose away you might have noticed that risks illustrious episode editor jeff bar did a little experiment there and added sound design to callee story even on this podcast sixth birthday risk is still going out on a limb and trying things so we keep our brains alive our final story today comes from the last risk live show in new york city boneyang is a delightfully talented comedian the host of drag court the people's improv theater and the co-creator of one of the most important hashtags in history so be sure to look up hashtag bear people I know I will here is now it's boneyang with a story we call lakaj odenis right um so the most meaningful one of the most meaningful interactions i've had with my mother was when she read aloud to me uh transcript of a gay cyber sex chat window i left open um and coincidence that was also the way i came out to her uh so i was 17 uh i was coming home from school um he left me and i had my own case in my right hand i had a script for our school's production if anything goes um and as soon as i said from the door i could feel the air hanging thick i could immediately tell something was wrong and i walked upstairs to find my mother slumped into the curvature of her office chair she'd been crying for hours it looked like in her hands she held the printed chat log as soon as she saw me she launched into this like recitation of this locker room role play fantasy that i was engaging in with this 19 year old stranger from texas as far as i know um and she read it line by line she shook the entire time she mumbled through the word she didn't understand she started through her accent and she stopped her feelings to sob and um just as she was reading this thing that was uh you know making her worst nightmare come true uh which was that her only son was homosexual and so i don't remember if i begged her to stop because of course it was mortifying i remember if i stood there speechless what i do remember was hating myself for making her feel this sad and i remember feeling the blood flush out of my face my eyes widening and my face going limp just totally paralyzed and so that's the closest thing i have to coming out straight because unlike most respectable 21st century gays i did not muster up the courage to approach my parents with the intent to tell them i was gay and so instead i'm left with like being caught in the act and having a really good episode of to catch a predator um where like i'm the predator and my mom is like a hysterically weaving chris hanson um just like reading the transcript so anyway um my parents who are chinese immigrants uh were religious per se but they did believe in a higher power that happened to hate gay people um and they took issue with homosexuality more on like a base level family values place and it was about keeping up the family line i was in the only son and so uh the immediate aftermath that followed um the cyber sex outing scandal in our house was the three of us my father and my mother and i having these really overwrought long conversations in the living room and then they're all punctuated by these quiet sad meals uh where we all just cried into our authentic chinese dishes um and guys tofu dishes are seasoned great with teardrops 11th and so after one such meal on one such day my dad calls me down with computer show me a website for an x gay therapy clinic um yeah i was in color out of sprigs which was two hours from we lived in dendber and the name of this clinic was called the center for men and boys which like the name alone is like the biggest dick shaped carrot to dingle in front of self-loathing gay men right so the center for men and boys was run by his man named scott sardolenton using his quote unquote real name because cybar a lot of x gay therapists take up aliases because they hop around from town to town uh just scape like activists and uh to avoid hate mail and googling and all that stuff it's real it's like a survival tactic for them so this guy scott ran um this clinic and his previous credentials included residency at the agape psychological clinic yeah agape as in how you would describe a power button's anus another dick shaped carrot or an anus shaped carrot um so so this website uh promised to cure a quote unquote unwanted same-sex attraction and it's specialized in emotionally disturbed boys and so i read this and uh just had a sick feeling in my stomach and that's what my dad turned me took off his glasses said i already booked several appointments for you and we're driving you down to this clinic every week and so um i didn't really have much to say in the matter because one i was emotionally drained and two and i was still feeling the shame and that's the kind of shame that like makes you overeat or apply to grad school um like ultimately you know it's not good for you but you do it anyway uh and it was the same kind of shame that days before with my mother uh made me feel the blood fleshed in my face my eyes widened my face going limp uh just totally paralyzed so a week later my dad and i make our first trip down at Colorado Springs to see scott and the drive down is painfully quiet just like our meals and once we finally get to Colorado Springs we need scott and expectations of him i didn't even know i had were completely shattered he was this tall bald like boringly dressed man and going and i expected some like repressed kenzi five um just a closet case uh who was just like peddling this false hope and he was just this devastatingly straight man it seemed who led me into his office that was decorated with devastatingly straight furnishings um it's just a small room about the size of like like half the size of the stage uh the walls were painted like green gray everything was in neutral tones the furniture was tacky um and on the walls were his like diplomas they might have been fake and uh like a couple of shitty bar Ross paintings and so he sat me down and uh started our first session by asking me if i wanted this experience to be secular or Christ centered because he specialized in both and i told him um secular because i'm not religious and then in the back of my mind i thought wait if he does both and that just means the secular experience is a secretly Christ centered one anyway and that's uh that's what i noticed on his desk this framed picture of him and what looked like his wife and two kids who were about my age all of a sudden this like unevolved lizard brain part of me wanted that for myself i thought oh yeah like i want that i want to be in my own version of that picture someday with a happy family and maybe that never intersects with a gay lifestyle and so all of a sudden that picture became sort of aspirational to me and i thought you know i can get through this weird crazy therapy if i can get my life looking anything like that photo and so then this weird thing started happening where i actually enjoyed the therapy with scott and the reason was because this first two sessions we didn't really talk about anything gay related it was just like pretty solid therapy um actually where i made like a few breakthroughs um with like my self-confidence and the way i verbalized my emotions or the way i was mindful of myself and um scott would like regularly ask me things like or tell me things that were uh for example uh yeah you're just so much smarter than you realize or so much more capable than you realize or just get out of your own way and um i agree you should have been cast as the lead and anything goes um and and i would i would enjoy these yeah we know what and that show i was type cast as one of the asian stowaways it was horrible so these therapy sessions started out pretty pretty good i mean i would leave them feeling better than i did going in and then another weird pleasant surprise that came out of this was that the drives to and from the center back home were also very nice as well with my father we found ways to fill the silence we had like i'll be on tour going on between us we cracked jokes and um weirdly it felt new to both of us because we had never had that kind of candor before and so we would make pit stops at diners we'd get snacks at gas stations and just talk and we were just like two guys on a road trip every week and so and it sounds so cheesy but like uh it was like for the first time uh it felt like my dad and i were finally friends and in some weird way i had scott to thank for that and then things took a dark turn when about our fifth or sixth session scott and i were in the middle of some exchange and i had like mumbled through a sentence and scott asked me to repeat back what i said i did and then i followed it up with um oh i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm not like an infra-netic uh but like soft spoken way which is still my bread and butter uh but anyway i so i apologize i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry and then he snapped why are you saying you're sorry why are you apologizing i froze because he never talked to me in that tone before and it was just pregnant pause and then he finally kept going he said apologizing too much is a sign of weakness don't apologize for things when you haven't done anything wrong apologizing is not attractive which is a weird thing to say to your therapy patient um but looking back it made sense because if xa therapy is in principle reverse engineering like your outward expression as a gay man then like attractiveness i guess to him was like his way of molding me into like this hetero ideal but it was just a very bizarre moment and all of a sudden therapy started to feel a little disturbing i left the sessions feeling worse than when i went in and then i just thought that you know maybe maybe this wasn't worthwhile maybe there was a better way to sort of make sense of all my feelings and also he was making me feel bad about something that i shouldn't have felt bad about in the first place so that was weird and that's what scott started to finally pathologize my sexuality it was the next week when he asked me to talk him through a recent time that i had been attracted to a man and all of a sudden i felt the room get a little smaller i noticed for the first time it was this windowless four-walled horribly shittily decorated room and i obliged even though i was uncomfortable and i said okay well yeah one time a couple weeks ago i was out at lunch and then i saw this guy who sat down at a table next to me and he looked kind of cute um and i thought he looked nice and scott says okay well how did you feel i thought i felt fine and he goes no no no how did you physically physically feel how did that attraction manifest in your physicality and i didn't really know how to respond to that um i said well i guess you know i was tired or something and and he asked me what my posture was i said i might have slouched a little bit and then he snaps and goes there it is that's what i was looking for and then he leans back in his chair and then goes off into this explanation where he says same types of attractions come from when we feel a lot of inner turmoil or when we're not feeling good about ourselves or it's at the mercy of these negative circumstances that are happening outside and i just want you to think about that though and the next time you feel attracted to a man and at the time i didn't have the knowledge to like totally debunk that logic because it makes no sense um i knew that something he said was wrong i walked out of that session again feeling very disturbed sat me down on the shoulder we drove home i didn't say a word to him the next week was our last session because i was moving away to college within the month and i wouldn't be back in color regularly so there was this you know marked end to our time together and then once i got to the therapy room i could tell Scott wanted to end on some strong and packed full note and so he sits me down and he says no and i hope you've given a lot of thought to what i told you last week about where same types of attractions come from and how you feel bad about yourself and that's why you're attracted to men so i have this perfect story that's going to illustrate this for you that happened to a former patient of mine and i go okay i listened and he started telling the story uh he said bohan this patient of mine was driving around the highways of california and i was late at night and he was trying to get home to his wife and kids and all of a sudden he got lost and he drove off and ended up in san bernum dino which let me tell you wasn't somewhere you want to end up in and that's when i started to you know look for a jennies and i ended up parking in a jennies got out of the car sat down and grabbed a cup of coffee just to get me through the night and then that's when i saw the waiter who i thought was pretty cute and then after i got the check i left my number on a nap then hoping that he would call me and i met up with him later but bohan i want to tell you that it's a shame that my patient and then he stops because if you didn't notice he slipped very seamlessly into the first person and it was very clearly obvious that that was a story about him and not some former patient that he made it sound like this happened pretty recently and it made it all more mortifying when he caught himself slipping so that i saw his face and i saw that the blood flushed from his cheeks his eyes widened his face went limp just totally paralyzed and i saw the same shame that i felt when my mom caught me in that sliver sex chat and it was the same shame that led me to scott in the first place that made me think that i was so desperate enough that there was a hope for a different life and in that moment i thought that um you know being gay is something you can change and even if you want it to change you can't change it and the fact that i was sitting in that room with him meant that i wanted to change it and i couldn't change it and so scott was really mortified it was the last time i ever spoke to him or saw him it was very awkward goodbye and whether or not he was tacitly admitting to having sex with the dennies waiters on the side um it remains to be known for sure who knows how often he does that um but i went home that day and just knew in my own heart that uh that shame wasn't strong enough to sort of change this thing about me and that it wasn't even worth having in the first place so i shed that pretty quickly after that last session and um obviously the therapy didn't work um and here i am i have zero shame about being gay only god you guys it's the best it's give it up for gayness um it's just made my life so much better and my parents didn't stay still don't really approve but um if there's one thing i wouldn't trade in that experience of xk therapy would be the drives with my dad because again we were friends for the first time we had bonded meaningfully and since going through xk therapy um i think i know we've said i love you each other more than we ever used to um and we mean it all of us and um i'd like to think that me trying xk therapy was my way of making an effort to understand my parents i'd like to think that someday my parents will make an effort to try to understand me and i'd like to think that somewhere Scott is having sex with a denny's later and now he doesn't have to feel ashamed of it thank you well that is all as they say for this week's episode folks that was bow and yang we just heard and you're hearing ben tommy behind me now next week kevin alison will be back to share all new recordings of his burps and orgasms i suppose meanwhile this is your guest host judge john hodgman signing off please don't forget to check the poor page at riskshow.com that's r-i-s-k- milwaukee am i done no cleveland salt lake city nondon if you're interested in learning how to tell stories you can find risks sister site at the story studio dot org risk is a proud and happy member of the maximum fund network of podcasts and now our switcher rule is done folks today's the day take a risk well let me say that if i decide that i want to do a retake on something i'm gonna go