Spider-Man with Matt Singer

Spangy! Who am I? I'm sure you want to know. The story of my life is not for the faint apart.

Somebody pull you, I was just your average ordinary podcast, not a career in the world, and somebody lied. It is incredible watching this how gentle he is. David, you texted me maybe rewatching this a year ago and you were like, it is stunning to watch it again and realize, oh, he's just like, he's doing a guy storm thing. He's not like, I need to be a movie star in a conventional way, I need to be an action star, I need to amp up the sort of megawatt wise guy charisma or whatever.

It's true, you're right, he does not pull out any of those cheesy bag of tricks kind of things. Yeah, that opening. I look, I really like this movie and I was so charmed rewatching it, but it is crazy that it does that opening, where it's like, my story, that's not for the faint of heart. What the fuck are you talking about?

No, don't worry, I like it, David. Do you know why I like it? Please tell me because I like it too. It does feel like something Stan Lee would pull off.

Very soon. Especially in an amazing fantasy style omnibus where it's like, we got to hit the ground running and explain very quick, we don't have a lot of time for this origin. It also sounds like a Sam Raimi, it sounds like Army of Darkness. It is true.

It does. It's a good example of why the fit is right. But that's why I like the Bruce Campbell's like, who am I? I'm out at all yandl, and so am I.

It's not the fan of heart. It's not the fan of heart. I mean, the story of my shock. The McGuire performance, it's funny how, man, there's so much to talk about with this movie.

With this movie? Yeah, like it's funny how hyped I was as a 15, 16 year old when this movie was coming out. Just about as hyped as I've ever heard of. Right.

An actor I loved from Pleasantville and the Ice Storm and what else, Cider House Rules, I'm trying to think, what were the other sort of Toby Wonder Boys? Wonder Boys. Yeah. I was like, yes, good casting.

I love this performance. Yeah. And I was like, what much like he does kind of remain like, hey, he did it first and he did it special and we love that. But then it became kind of like, but why is it Peter Parker, like a wise cracker?

Right. He was eventually that backlash of like, he needs, and that's of course the Tom Holland performance is so manic and up. And Garfield was too, right? Until he's not that bad, I can, he didn't do that much of the stuff.

Right. And now you're watching, God, this is such a special thing. Yes. Yes.

And even when he freaking showed up in the new one and I haven't seen him in a movie, I'm like, eight years and I'm like, how is this gonna work? And I'm like, oh, he's doing the same before. He's still doing the same thing. Yeah.

But I took my little cousin who's five to see. Nobody home and he's like a spider man, obsessive and it's very fascinating to he's like, what is that? Right? Weirdo.

He's only five? He's five. How much spider man can you fit in at the age of five? I mean, I was.

I was all in way before that. I mean, I've always, but anyway, okay, he's a spider man. He's five or six. Not challenging you on his age.

I'm just wondering how much spider man he's being able to see, you know, he's six now, but he's like understands like Toby Maguire and Dragavir field Tom Holland. Like he understands that they were three. Sure, sure. Holy, he knows he died by their names.

Oh, the father of the sons. The first two or the second two, you know, like, which Spider-Man two are you talking about? Like all that shit. And I took him to see, you know, way home because his mom did not want to.

And fair, he was like jealous. He was like, I heard you seen Spider-Man. I was like, yeah, bro, you're not like three months ago. And then I realized like, oh, your mom just doesn't want to take you.

I'll take you, right? And I took him to see it. And he's like asking me my opinions on Spider-Man and the different movies and whatever. And I realized it's not what he genuinely doesn't know that the other two guys are in it.

Oh, right. He's five years old. He's not on Twitter. But he knows who they are by name.

He understands like those ones came first and then he's like, later than I was born. But he does know that this is going to happen. And until Colin back-ass. Right?

Like he does understand that. And like two hours in when you get to like, Aunt May is saying, great power, great responsibility. He kind of turned it on. And you're like, is it almost over?

And I was like, right, she's like, two hours in that movie. I was kind of like a Jesus Christ. Yeah. So I had to be like, George, I think you're really going to like what happens next.

And then she died. And he was like, that, that's the thing. You're going to love this, buddy. Right.

And then you see like J. John Jameson being like, man, he's like, that's not that. And I was like, no, just I'll tell you when the thing's going to happen. And Portal opens up Andrew Garfield walks out and he goes, what?

Like there was no part of him that he considered that was a possible. I would do it. That's awesome. Incredible.

Incredible. Right? Yeah. And then the second Portal opens up.

And you see this silhouette. And he goes, oh my god, it's Toby Maguire. It's Toby Maguire. It's Toby Maguire.

It's Toby Maguire. It's a five-year-old knows the name Toby Maguire. It's like, it's Toby Maguire. A guy who has not been in movies.

He's like, how you're like. Right. Right. Yeah.

Right. He's like, it's Toby Maguire. And then Toby Maguire walks into the light and he goes, it's Toby Maguire, but he's old? Well, I believe the man alone.

He's like, brutal. He's like, he's 46. He's doing his best. But it was funny that he didn't understand the passage of time.

Right. He was like, what's the character choice here? Like, why are they making him old? Why is he not walking out of 2002?

Right. And it was like, for how much I think one of the things that people like to rag on with a little bit of distance of life, it's that thing that happens. Every time a superhero gets recast, people are like, already? Again, do we need another one?

And then they immediately turn to. Well, what are the things that the last guy didn't pick up? Sure. You have a character that's been around for 75 years.

No one's gonna capture every element. So you're like, what do we want to correct on the next one? And it was always Toby was too old. Toby was too old.

Didn't read as a high schooler. And I guess. And he wasn't funny. He wasn't funny.

He wasn't funny. He's not. He's just not. He's just playing the soap opera romanticism.

Right. Peter Parker. But it was funny that to George, it was like, I don't know if I just say it might be whatever. Well, he said it like eight times.

I know. No one knows what his last name is. Sure. Clanton of Parliament Funkadelli.

And he was like, oh, Toby's like a kid. And now he's old. Sure. That I do think there's something in this performance where you're like, he is playing a boy and even he's not realistically looking like a teenager.

You accept it. He looks okay in this one. The later ones definitely still look too old. I mean, that's funny.

I have no problem with it because it is of a piece of this move that feels like throwbacky and Hollywood cast 20 year old. But it is funny when it's him, Dunston Manchinella. Like, you know, especially Joe Manchinella, where you're like, this guy's supposed to be one seven years old. This guy owns a home at this point.

He has a mortgage. He's got mortgage. But Dunston's like, Dunston's like, one of them. When they film this?

No, she was younger. She like turned 18 while they were shooting it. Let's see. Yes.

She was like maybe 92. Okay. And Toby Blair. They mentioned that in commentary.

I don't want to make it seem like I just know Kristen Dunston's birthday. Actually, kind of crazy. Toby Blair is seven years older than her. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. But he was so boyish. Yes.

Totally. The voice helps him a lot. As much as I do my period. It's like that helps him a lot that he did have such a his voice never drop.

No, never really has. Right. He's not such a boyish face and that sort of like puppy dog energy. Well, I just wanted to sort of just wanted to say it seems like based on the conversation with us for the three of you big Spider-Man fans.

Super cool guys. Super cool guys. Super cool guys. I just wanted to sort of early on just be a voice on Mike representing the people that, you know, it's my misschool.

I'm not a fan. You're not a fan of Spider-Man. I like him. I like the movies.

I haven't seen though any of the other franchises have only seen this franchise. Well, that's not true. Well, you've seen the Marvel movies. Right.

We watched. Oh my God. Those are so forgettable. Sorry.

They're a little forgettable. Yeah. I did the Garfield movies. No.

No, no, no, no. Like, you're like uniquely bad in them. It's really really bad. I do like good, like LCD screens with nonsense CGI.

Yeah, a lot of bio computer. Yeah, a lot of that. But he bings instead of, he doesn't use Google uses Bing. Yeah, he bings the fuck out of everything.

Yeah. Bings who are my parents. He's speaking more like binging like, what is this? Where is the subway?

Yeah. He has to bing, he's looking for his. Yeah. It's a long story.

We don't need to talk about it. There's his dad has a secret subway station underground. There's a secret abandoned subway station where when he figures out what the code is. No, he has to put a subway token into a subway token thing and a car, subway car rises out of the ground subway car.

I'm glad I know no memory of that and I see some ninja turtles like right right blank man remember he hangs out in an abandoned subway station Yeah, but it's like that but that's it's funny. I like yeah, it's a good bit Not a bit. No, that was always cool. That was one of my favorite.

It's glowing. It's like a man thing Yeah, it's like blank man, then you know we're talking I mean when you know this movie's coming out It's like superhero movies. Okay. Well, that's been super management Batman They just had an X-Men movie and then you're kind of like I don't know meet your man blank man like how many others are there?

Right blade I guess really well I love steel steel watch. I'm just on a lot of the ones that were done Like spawn was an a list character relative to most of the characters that we're getting solo movies because a lot of them We're like we're not gonna burn the big ones. We're gonna do super girl Yeah, sure we're gonna do steel we're gonna do you know it was like well because that was the thing It's like now if Warner Brothers like we're doing a steel movie It'd be like every A-list African-American actor is buying for this one back then it was like I don't know I don't want to be stealing was like no and Shaq was like I mean, okay I'll be in a movie. What's the movie?

I believe it's even weird in that I believe it's that Shaq had the Superman the Tattoo yes, he loves Superman and someone algorithmically was like we should just do that right like the whole thing was built around him I don't think that the film would have gotten made if not for him. I think you're right I think partly Quincy Jones produced it and he was also a huge steel fan again for 90s look things were happening This is my point. It was just sort of like I don't know it's Shaq wants the place deal I guess we let that happen as a vanity project Quincy's behind it, you know, right? Yeah, very very strange look we're talking about a guy named speeder man today We are talking about spider-man I remember the playing out New York review of this movie.

I was so excited for a time out New York review was a buy I couldn't tell you that if you want to look it up, right? I don't think I have a great archive. Yeah, that might be tough I just read a lot of some I so badly was looking for I think like many young comic book fans are now the validation of like I want critics to take this movie seriously Oh my god, so much. I needed that so bad.

It's so bad. It's true. We weren't that much. Oh, you're like a year I was 65 and no I was 21.

Okay, you're four year five years. I was 60. Yeah, anyway, it's 2002 summer So I was 21 right I just know that time New York making a big point of the hyphen It was almost like the master builder what a difference in a mix where they go rainy has focused on the hyphen in his take on the Material like the idea being like the space between my and my gosh Wow, I just remember that that was like and it was you know, it's time I'm you're like a paragraph but they were like the hyphen is really that feels kind of like the critic who I now really want to look up Who it was being like what the fuck is my lead for? He probably wrote it before even saw the Know what else can happen?

Your times are you guys. Yeah, I remember that being like this fucking defer thing Tom charity wrote the okay. Okay. Can you find the hyphen line?

No, but so I don't but like this may not be from time out New York. It doesn't matter keep going whatever I just always remember the hyphen in the name because of that Oh, I see so I got you on that tangent just with my little joke Because of course I thought when I worked at the Disney store and you were supposed to put your favorite Disney character on your name Pack I asked for it to be spider-man and I said don't forget the hyphen and they said they're sending it to Disney legal They're not gonna forget the hyphen and then I got a name tag with no hyphen that made it look like my name was Griffin Shbeaterman My last name so this blank check with your friend David I'm Griffin And this is a podcast about philanthropies directors with massive success early on in their careers They're giving a series of blank checks me whatever crazy passion projects They want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they swing across the New York City skyline baby Rex Reed not a fan I'm just looking at the way. Come on. I don't believe that this year movies are like botany summer blooms are opening a month early He's complaining that it's coming out in May Then Rex Reed swerves into when I was a kid I liked Captain Marvel and Superman and considered Spider-Man a bus and truck version of Batman Does he call Pearson does tired like 18 year old Dunst is over the hill Yes, he says created to enthrall readers under the age of 10 by 10 I had graduated from Nancy and Sluggo to Archie Betty in Veronica Rex Reed really getting into his comic reading Wow, it's a child Rex Reed sounding like multiple episodes of he calls 20 minutes engines calls Toby McGuire goony Remarks that their row house in Queens is ugly Leave him alone there Let's see this is a pretty good review by Rex Reed.

I gotta say it's pretty you know just lay out all the mustard Yeah, does like James Franco's recent performances Jane Dean James Dean Shouse that house Says the green goblin looks like a laminated prank Nantis wearing an islanders mask And says the funniest actor is not Mr. Defoe who his is like a leaky radio Rex Reed Yeah, we're gonna body right now But JK Simmons sure who is sprouted a full head of hair and a versatile turnaround from his bald sexual predator He plays on odds mostly impressed by the haircut Actually grew hair somehow this man and a feed I've never seen an actor achieve before Some people gain weight for roles. He figured out how to I'm sorry here's some done see finally ways in I like to better as a blonde. Oh boy sure Rex Cliff Robertson is a warm nicest uncle a spider ever had but what can you do with lines like with great power comes great responsible?

Not supposed to say it It is funny that now that's like a line of the idea that ritzy's like why would anyone say this great power Come for this out of here nonsense. It's just funny that there were like five six movies with Tom Holland and more people were like I can't believe they're not saying it. I guess they're never gonna say it. They're just not gonna ever say it someone clearly read Rex Reed You was like listen guys.

Yeah, we were way off on this. Yeah, Rex is right. We're not saying it this right ever I just feel like that was a thing that was known but post this movie that is like everyone knows that line you quote that you Understand that is the spider-man. Sure.

It's the motto. It's all good I just want to say he then swerves to his Hollywood ending review where he is like Lavishing on pretty best thing. What are you Alan's done in years? Tree Williams He calls it a 40 carat cinematic julis What do you call it?

Bus and truck It's not a bus and truck with you Anyway, this is a miniser is on the films of Sam Rachner. Oh, we haven't introduced that okay, sorry I was trying to be I don't know these I want to really focus episode with those sideboards a Ben pinball soundtrack action figures and miscellaneous merchandise I know we said both but I added all right all right all right all right all right Sam Rachner I also put a pin in a singular cross promotion singular wireless cross promotion So mr. Son of Sam Rachner is called podcast me today. It's called podcast me to hell Yeah today we're talking about speed or hyphen man We're talking about spider-man his return to big budget filmmaking.

I guess after well I see never really made his return to genre filmmaking after Well, the gift is kind of genre, but you know, you know what I mean. Yes, yes pop cinema less classy movies Thank God get back into the popcorn machine Sam a film that changed Hollywood forever Indeed and shape the landscape we currently, you know This is a changed Hollywood so many ways this is the beginning of everything okay. I mean my interest is please go on I think the big thing is you know, it's quite successful. Yes.

I knew that I mean, I know it's a huge It's no black man, but right it's a huge pop culture thing like I mean that reached at least are the millennials right? It's like our spider-man and I guess you know, obviously there's fans that continue to Revist like I've also been reclaimed by a lot of the zoomers I mean if our slash rainy memes is to be believed I think I think the generation has come around to these movies as well There was a period where I think people were like these fucking quote. They were really looked down on for a long time Especially I would obviously the third movie was poorly received at the time But like I do like this movie's reputation had really gone down Yeah, like me and hindsight I was like my movie is kind of prototypical and the second one is the one that's really good Yeah, and that but all of them are like the reputation was their hokey Yeah, right Cheesy big monologue Too thick comedy right yes, which is funny because these movies are so much more comedies in Genre than any of the later spider-man films, but they were like spider-man isn't funny It's true these movies are like old Hollywood comedy. This is you and I are texting about like they're like They're like a bit of an Ellie movie.

They're like Stanley don't in films like their old MGM musical comedies They feel like and now of course right now most superhero movies are quite serious and grounded They're not all of them. There's so many fucking superhero movies that you can but like the way that in which they're funny is very different Yeah, and even the new Holland one you talked about it How like he'd Holland for the first chunk of that press door was like this is like the saddest most serious spider-man ever Yeah, I cried making it in a certain point apparently so he was like can you chill out? You're bumming everyone out like and yeah, you know it does have that tone of like this is important in serious and this has the right tone I think yeah, it's not goofy or Flippant about the source material but is watching a thing We were texting about and we were just like this fucking tone You cannot believe that this was his tape that they approved it and that he executed it from beginning to end And I think I always Like to this movie with some reservations I think even when I went to see it like amped up to the fucking nines I was like it's not a masterpiece if it like has magic in it it's got some stuff really right only It's you know, I I When you get how much more they tried to sell it as being like cool in thinking Right and like the trailers use the fucking Matrix scams just at the right of the start Don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't ain't want to that I want to take you for a while that they do use you far behind by Fucking what it was also on the Matrix soundtrack. Yes, but they also use Danny Elfman's plan of the apes score Oh, right.

I probably just lunatic calm. Sorry is the name of the band. Wow. I knew the last time I was on blank check This is a way.

That's right. This is a weird. Well, you love Elfman That's my thing. Yeah, my dad too says our guest is matching her by the way wrote the book on spider book on spider A book on what is the whole property the only one?

It's Marvel's spider-man colon from amazing spectacular colon the definitive comic art collection I'm glad I clarified you're a fan of spider-man. Yes, I am read with embarrassment Actually embarrassed not playing it up. I have to ask Entitling that book. Did you ever regret the fact that Marvel never came up with a spider-man comic that had a Z in the title?

So you could call it like from amazing to Zany that would have been better I didn't quite take you to the Alpha that I did I did not title the book a million titles that were the publisher Ended up picking picking that type, okay, but you're right. It would work a lot better I have thought about the zany event right from amazing to yeah Tacular yeah, exactly it would make more sense. Yes. So you like spider-man.

Yes spider. I also like spider-man I was like Griffin likes spider-man. He's one of my best friends. I was a um and we were all Spider-man fans when this movie came out I don't think I'd ever seen her I had seen the gift because I actually saw the gift in theaters Yeah, I don't know that I'd seen another Sam Raimi movie.

Oh, we had a very different I mean maybe I must have seen at least a couple of evil did yeah, I guess I had just that's my I'm trying to remember I don't think I'd seen like a simple plan or quick I remember if I ranched them right before right after this one and you're in frickin Kim's video guy You were well, I wasn't there. Yeah, I know you were but I mean I had the experience where I saw when I saw spider-man It was like basically my favorite director making my favorite character. So it was a mind-blowing event here I guess the internet how did we hear that Sam Raimi was making so this is what I'm trying to remember. Yeah, it was the internet I think I was the internet was yeah, but for me like a couple of I guess two years before this I was in college.

I had never seen a Sam Raimi movie and then I was the biggest nerd at school like I had no friends I know nothing and I was good nothing nothing I was a boy I was I made Peter Parker look really cool at from the beginning of this movie wait Somebody told me that you were just an average ordinary guy not a care in the world that person lied So but I went I went to school at Syracuse and they had on-campus movies and they would do a new movie and a midnight movie That was somehow vaguely related. Okay, sure and I would just go every week because I had no friends and nothing else cool This week that I went this particular week they showed the mummy or the mummy returns. I actually What one of the Brandon Fraser? Yes.

Yes. It was not the dark universe yet, sadly Well, I mean it wasn't a carloaf mummy or no No, it was the Brendan Fraser mummy one of those and the midnight movie was army of darkness Which I had a classic midnight, yeah And it was sold out and I had like they only vaguely knew that movie from like comics from like reading spider-man comics And there was a period when that movie came out it was the inside cover Oh sure every Marvel comic for like six months. They knew their audience. Yeah, exactly Yeah, but I never seen it.

I grew up in New Jersey No, like I didn't have any cool movie friends like it was just no one was passing I gave it to your Griffin basically No, I didn't have one I gave it so the movie starts and the audience is potentially drunk stone They're losing their minds. They know every line It was like the you could not ask for a better movie experience Yeah, ever and it was like a bomb went off in my brain And I immediately was like I've whoever made this because I didn't know who Sam Raimi was It's like this is my new god, right? And I immediately just like fell into the same session So when then when they say Sam Raimi is making spider-man, it's like right? Yeah, that's too good That can't be that can't be right and so yeah, so when this movie comes out I mean I've never been I think you said you were like one of the most excited times you've ever been way up there There's no question.

This is the most excited. I have ever been probably will ever be where you not to go full circle It's like the only thing that not the only one but like plenty of games is in that tier It's like I remember how much you love I feel like those are the ones where I was just like my sense of self is writing on this movie Yeah, cuz you're young enough also that you're just like this has to be good I don't know what I do with myself. This isn't right right so I was a huge X-men nerd So the X-men movie was probably more exciting for me than although not that I was like a big usual suspect So I didn't have that but I was truly like they better nail this right this movie I was a huge spider-man fan. I think I was calmer about it I think I was like this looks good if that makes I was going in fairly I was gonna say I got super in for X-men But I think the fact that I then enjoyed X-men amped me up more for this X-men was about as now I can feel right right that was like the proof of concept right because before that there's based other than Blade no Marvel movies at all There's the only like comic book movies anyone had ever seen and they didn't feel like comic book movies They felt like something else but this is another thing you have like spider-man You've super been a Batman right who especially that point time are just the two most iconic American superheroes And they have been successfully adapted to TV several times and then they make them work as you know modern movies Yeah, so there's a 70s Superman run and nothing else that tries to imitate that works and those movies diminish right?

And then you have your 80s into 90s Batman run and none of the movies that try to imitate it work And then those movies diminish and it really is like the only two that they will put the muscle behind adapting are the two big guys Right, you know that's like that's all that's gonna work And then X-men I think was such a turnkey in terms of like this isn't blade. This isn't steel This is like one of the things that we all know But X-men has to couch everything they're doing like we're gonna make this look like a Well, that's something don't movie. Yeah, I felt I was okay with it because I was like Whatever you can do to sneak exactly so like spider-man here shooting it out of his wrists. Yeah, yeah I was like that's fine.

Yeah, whatever whatever. I was not complaining. No, it's okay I get the you have to get everyone on board the context that people like younger people today do not understand is that like comic book movies were And comic books in general were looked at as like garbage. Like I so this is Two bussing truck right here.

We took a few years ago before this I'm in high school and I did everything in my power to make sure no one ever found out I liked comics and write comics I wouldn't bring them to school and hide them This is like it was like you know, and this is a time when like pro wrestling is cool It's not like a lot of goofy shit is Someone's gonna kick a sand castle in your face people are gonna knock my books out of my hand in the hallway No one can know right and even after Batman, which is huge Yeah, like by the Batman doesn't change that because Batman Robin is a goof right? I mean I kind of enjoy Batman Robin for what it is But it doesn't change the perception that comics are for dorks their weird their goofy right right right? There was nothing bad about it And I think X-men and even X-men which is a good good before what it is But they were like we're gonna dress them like they're in the Matrix there's a few of them really tried to Tony with the Holocaust thing Right civil rights thing and all that statement of that movie of being like we're gonna lead with the subtext the stars are British actors in their like late 50s Like those are the names in this movie wait, what band would you want to say well? I was just gonna interject and say that I did have a relationship to These characters but through video games and through the animated show sure there was a lot of the cartoons obviously and then right a lot of Super Nintendo games where you're spider-man or Batman or Wolverine or whatever I do think that I felt that same like we're both from Jersey I definitely saw the kids getting their books knocked out of their hands because they had a comic book You saw me they'd be going to the same high school where I don't know was yours underground and just like filled with like shrapnel and just like rusty objects I've been creating an ironclad alibi that he only saw the books getting knocked out of your hands I wasn't doing it.

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Yeah, the animated show I think was like for a lot of kids an access point for Marvel I think was really like the way for regular non maybe nerdy kids We'll dig into the weird development history of this movie across decades But there's the circular thing that I talked about before which is a marvel is like near bankruptcy But they do the X-men cartoon and the X-men cartoon explodes and it's why I got into conflict expose all these characters on a wider scale Right people know deep accident characters now this sort of like third tier toy company boy Biz gets the rights for the action figures and they sell so many toys that when Marvel is on the brink of true filing for bankruptcy Boy Biz buys Marvel and then the machinery becomes we have to do a Saturday morning cartoon or syndicate cartoon of every one of these fucking things In pump out as many figures as we can as many video games as you can So the 90s do work as this perfect launching pad to be able to run with these movies when you get to the 2000s because like these characters are All now back in rotation retelling many of the most iconic stories But yes, I think that was a thing where I was I was so fucking amped for X-men and the fact that X-men like that Check cleared in my mind and then you start seeing the materials for spider-man and you're like shit They're just doing the costume right I remember I mean I vividly remember the first time I saw like the you know the the official press photo of the costume And I really was shocking especially after X-men Yeah, but like they're all dressed like the whole story with X-men was they were like we tested the like yellow costume on the screen It looked bad like we can do it. It won't read like on camera at all Do either of you guys remember when Alex Ross did his like He published I remember reading in Wizard or Toy Fair magazine or something But I don't know where it originally came from but he was like his concept art for this movie Yeah, he was I have not been hired to do it, but I thought I'm so in the camp of wanting to support this movie that here Just pro bono are my ideas for how you could update spider-man to make these costumes look cool in a modern context Right and you were like what a cool design but it was still couched in the idea that he was like They can't just fucking put the suit on screen. Right. I have to make this look Hipper and then they were just like I watch all the fucking special features of everything last night But they talked so much about like a year of just we know we want to do the suit The question is just the way to execute and it was just the back and forth of like how razor the webs what shade of red and blue What shape are the eyes but they were like there was no question that the big move here was It's going to be spider-man and red and blue with the webbing and the big white eye And I feel like that was the thing that when we talk about actually this was a really important movie Yes, and like influential like that was that was it It was like we're not gonna pretend that this is in a comic book They're like this is a comic book because this is spider-man and the movie is right sure But Batman didn't Batman didn't and then everything that followed that absolute was kind of like Superman just has this kind of literary like history in a weird way It's seen as like what that's sort of an important American it's an invention right right and he is Superman right and you can start to start catching a spider-man I don't know it's like the important thing is that nerds have always been treated poorly and that's why we deserve Everything coming to us and all control over culture right right right okay good We all agree Of course not Because we learned that with great power come through We would never do anything this is a thing that every nerd on the internet has really taken part yes Oh boy, but uh just you know that's what I was just trying we can talk about the development of the movie now But like I'm just just trying to remember that mindset of like this being exciting and new and different It's a it's a no it's like a no it's a really crazy that it's like in like how vivid this time is in my mind I feel like you know your nephew or whatever It's just gonna have no concept of that sort of there's no like these in theaters In a cool loading it up and being like it's gonna take five minutes for the photo to load and seeing it go an inch by inch Oh, yeah, when it was like the X-Men costumes being revealed right right and there was that feeling of you were like huh?

You have to like sit there really think that makes sense And it truly was that thing where when the spider-man photo load the promo one I remember was him sort of crouched on a corner of a building It's like blue and like the lighting is very like blue and red on right yep And I think that was almost it was maybe a leak I remember seeing an ankle I remember for a special or not Very soon after that was the teaser posters because they had those a while in advance and when you were just like holy shit The poster is him crawling on a building and it has colors and the suit looks like that you're talking about real guy I wasn't interested but then it told me I would be taken for the ultimate spin And then I decided I was this is what's funny to me is they still had to be like this is cool This is extremely scary Like right like it created the PlayStation 3 font it did you know really ghastly fun like I get again at the time I guess it was cool Yeah, but like nothing about the font in the trailers and stuff I like the the title, you know like the actual card this yeah opening credits are nice Yeah, but when you watch the trailers Matt and I were talking about this before you showed up like it's amazing How much this movie does not really feel tied to the early 21st century at all when you watch the movie right there's little things like Macey Gray the DNA Yeah, by and large it feels but but then much all the marketing you're like oh my god It's sort of amazing and miraculous that while the marketing and the trailers and the soundtrack is like so dated Yes, the movie itself feels so tight It's really like Macey Gray who I guess is so amazing cast into memory So it's sort of like who's that like it's just funny where you're like this was synergistic like this wasn't just well unity days world You know Big deal you guys have unity day plans. I'm gonna wear kimono in honor of unity day of course And I'm gonna go hang out at the municipal building or go look at the balloons in Times Square Oh, you always big oversized my favorite lumberjack russian dancer right weird dog weird dog weird dog We all like a character weird dog one of Stanley's other favorite creations weird dog So sure believe us wait until you meet weird dog It's all gate normal So we all said how do you get into spider me great question? What's your little thing? Oh for me?

It was the electric company. He was a character electric company with was that when he was with Firestar and That's the cartoon that's amazing. Yeah, right right with Firestar and who was the ice man? Right and this lion the dog of course, which I also definitely watched but that was a little later before that so the electric company was like this PBS You know show was yeah, yeah, what a freedom was it?

Yes? Yeah, it was like a easy reader sister showed a sesame Street Basically and spider-man had these segments where he was he was slightly older suspectry, right? It was like I feel like an electric company was sort of 70s. It started in the same.

No, no I mean first like the older audience. Oh, yeah Yeah, you're like you're center eight now you get to watch electric so and and and the whole show was about like teaching kids to read And so spider-man had these he never spoke but he's bubbles word bubbles So it's sort of teaching you to read the thought balloons and word bubbles right exactly and I was just totally smitten with this thing The look the right and I had to do with being a dork or no You know relating to the character it was just the look of him and everything and then yeah the cartoons and But like I try to remember when when you talk about you know being six and loving spider-man like supposedly my I don't remember this But my one of my very first words as a child was spider-man. Wow. I mean it was a good according to my parents But it was not spider-man.

It was meh meh meh right that was that was how you were like yeah young I was that meh meh meh was it is funny. I mean I feel like we'll talk about this sometimes David We need to like zoom out from a movie that we just all take for like given as a given Right and go like how insane is it that that worked and that worked right and there's that time while I'm in Spider-man where you're like how insane is it that like Stanley cracked this thing of like here's how to put a relatable human being at The center of a story like this and at the same time they nailed the costume that heart that he is just so graphically compelling You know yes, and they're almost like there's a version which you're like he did this book That didn't sell but it was the one where he cracked you can put in every man in the situation and later They came up with this character that looked good It is weird that Stanley was like spider-man and like that was the thing that unlocked everything for Marvel Everything that's compelling about his costume doesn't really have to do with spiders I'm just webbing not really red and blue right yeah I mean and his powers are spider-y but then also not you know not specifically the spider sense or whatever like and You know you I was you know ranting in my wife yesterday where I'm like you don't understand there hadn't been a teenage hero Yeah, Robin if you were a kid, you know like I'm trying to like that was revolutionary This has all been excavated obviously countless times But I was sort of combining like Archie comics with super great Yeah, that's the huge when you read them and I the dick go run is extraordinary and it's still read so well And it's so fucking good, but yeah, so much of it is like yeah You go into the dance be you know like all that shit, you know, what's Alan? Yeah, yeah all that all that stuff yeah, no It's it's it's wild and that's the stuff that rainy I think really has tapped into better than anyone else is that feeling of that early run and like the teenager You know full of emotions and all that sort of stuff like even in two and three when he becomes an adult It still has that sort of Archie feel to it But yes, you look at the marketing and they were trying so hard to sell it as like the movie of 2002 And I do remember sitting there in the theater being so excited and 20 minutes in being like this is the tone like not being upset Being sort of like amazed that they had been able to hood wing. Yeah, how did they pull this off?

That's the thing when you watch it today and it feels so timeless Right and then you go look at the trailers and all this and all this stuff and they're sort trying so hard to be cool Right and the movie is not cool and I mean that as a compliment It's not there's nothing cool about it one of the reasons why maybe it became less popular over time It doesn't have it's not Spinderman isn't cool. No Obviously not Peter Parker is working and he's supposed to be unlucky and always that is another thing about this movie That's that's really great is that it doesn't try to make him cool And it doesn't try to make the concept of spider-man cool it believes in the concept Sam Raimi desperately believes in the mythology of When you talk about like those early Stanley Steve Dico comics like that's one of the things that the movie captures is that that belief in With great power comes great responsibility. I'm very sorry Rex Reed, but like that is so important to the character I mean, that's the magic of Dico where he's so crazy. He's such a crazy person that he really believes that That is trading it Yes, and then there's you know when you I mean Steve Dico is someone I'm obsessed with and like you learn about all this stuff He was like the green goblin should just be an ordinary man And there should be no and the lesson should be it could be anybody and Stanley's like what are you talking about?

It should be normal to us So that kind of like fired ice with those guys it's crucial just by my working right like it was just Dico would probably be like all his other shit That's like bizarre and inscrutable so it's so good that they were combined but the Dico part is what's so amazing Oh, I'm like that. I'm like these elements lined up these different sensibilities the graphic elements I love Steve I love Steve Dico. Have you ever I brought it up on the show before Jonathan Ross did this documentary called in search of Steve Dico? No, it was on the I know it is I haven't seen it.

He goes literally goes like the guy's still alive I'm obsessed with him In search of see he's got he's got a list You know don't know and he like tries to meet him because like the whole thing was deep It was still in his fucking office right like yeah drawing like you know trade Illustrations or whatever no one and One of the best parts of it is he interviews John Rameeta who yeah took over spider-man after Steve Dico And apparently Dico is like just don't make Peter Parker handsome because the way Dico draws me looks like an alien He's like so skinny very yes, and Rameeta's like it's saying to John through us I promised him whoa I won't and then I started drawing him and Run through us like you droop super handsome. I know I can't help myself and his peanut butter actually got hot and kind of Handsome, but like those early Dico. He's so weird and that's why McGuire is such a good fit for like that energy He's not a good look at the company Yeah, he's a boy and he's small. Yeah, he's not traditional handsome.

He's not a leading man He has that voice he really has the Dico spider-man Peter and it's all these things that are so fascinating about this like so Where credit is due a recent trend that I'm very much in favor of I think in terms of like wait iTunes extras When they have like I'm listening Going I feel like all the studios behind you especially for the bigger movies I feel like they're working their way down are now starting to like add on every feature that was ever included on any version of any Release of a movie so I was like going through the guy I think I know where you're going with this But go ahead okay, I'm the first spider-man and they have like everything from every version more than I even feel like is on the 4k Disc now where everything like preserve yeah, it's very interesting to watch not just all the marketing materials and whatever But there's like 90 plus minutes split into different feature rats on that DVD You know the two disc spider-man one said that is like we need to give people context for this comic Where it's like they still need to like pump up the idea of like can you believe this character has existed for all this time all this sort of shit So all these interviews with like Ramita and Stan all the old guys Right and Stan Lee is always like giving his lessons on like what I learned made spider-man interesting Is you always have to tell a good story and you're like that's the formula Stan and he's like the way we came up with the name Doc. Ock was interesting. He's my favorite. I liked him because I like nicknames I said what if I had a character named dr.

Auto Octavius And that's what he was named at first and then I started calling him dr. Octopus And then I called him dr. And that's why he's my thing That was not what I thought you were going to say what's the one you I was talking about how kind of interesting and quirky told me why The screen test the screen says what I was building up because this is a whole thing like he resisted this He didn't want to do a screen test. He's an established actor arc of this is right like and I got this a little wrong I've talked about in other episodes, but Rainy really wanted the meeting his agent was like there's 16 guys on the list ahead of me I can give you the exact quote, but yes, Rainy was like I want the you know to And he's like fine make me the 17 Little back around the I just want to set the specific Toby thing right he gets in there with the meeting with Rainy It really gets in the name with Columbia and just has that level of enthusiasm where like they're just like Jesus Christ This guy cares about this shit Kirsten Dun says in an interview that they reuse across like 18 different featurettes I watched last night like truly when you talk to Sam about spider-man his eyes start glowing sure I mean that's it makes up like you just it's infectious how much he actually cares about it He always tells the story that when he was a little boy his parents hired a local artist And they paid him $30 to a painting of spider-man He hung it above his bed and he slept in bed every night as a child underneath like a gift painting of Spider-Man And Avi Arad is like that is the exact man you need making a movie But what I've gotten wrong in previous episodes on talk at this is that Rainy didn't I said that Rainy didn't know that he had Been hired until he saw it in Variety What was the case was he went in for the meeting thought nothing will come up there sure and then there was a variety story that said in an Unlikely turn of events Sam Raimi appears to be the top choice Which was the thing he was flabbergasted by because he just thought I'll get to tell people I pitch for spider-man And the person who was most as widely assumed to do it at that point was Fincher.

Yeah, everyone's kind of assuming It was the Sony guy right now and people I think we're still in the mindset of you need a Brian Singery Need a guy who has bona fides making adult movies They're good You got to do probably what Cameron was gonna do this movie has to be really shiny and high-tech and whatever you know But once Rainy's cat hired to do this and it becomes the casting question all the articles are derisively like they want to hire some Lantern jaw broad-shouldered hunt like West Bentf ready Prince Jr. There's an article that yeah, I was Pretty boys because like a little is right. It's like ten things and maybe a night's tail Right, right and and rainy stories that he was watching spider house Jude lost the spider house rules He was watching the spider house It really did make him the perfect choice and hindsight like Franco was a guy who tested like Sony wanted like all the coolest prettiest young Right, right? He's watching cider house rules with his wife and bet and he's like that's that's what it should be It should be this and he goes to Sony and Sony's thing is but is he an action star and it's such a funny calculation now Where you're just like he's in the costume the whole room.

Okay, you can't even see it You literally can't see it so you can't stop either. Yeah, I know you do is hire someone to be Peter Parker That's the only thing you need to hire somebody right horse hire I'm a boy. So it's like get over yourself. You cast Michael Keaton It's like you've done before where you cast people who are not like buff guys.

I was like a linky Right, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, he got all right But it's right nowadays. They'll be like look we have to cast the personality outside of the suit in the suit this fucking You're gonna mirrors.

We figure out it's an action figure you move around on green screen But they were like so adamant about like it can't be Toby and Rainey's pushing so hard. He convinced a Toby to want to do it when I think he had been sort of a Movie then Toby gets on board and the rain is like I'm happy I convinced you now by the way So he doesn't want to hire you we have to convince them together we have to do like an action screen test right like it's not just a Regular to take meetings right and they made him do just an actor screen test and so he was like we still think he's not tough enough Right, so he's the thing with the lies you should I just people should pause the podcast and go just from that description Go watch what they made him do to prove he was tough. This is what's crazy is like it is It's like a Bruce Lee screen test. It's so Exactly what it looks like dark city.

It looks like Burton Batman right to the waist right He's shirtless He's sure lose spandex bodysuit to see how we looked in the suit and he and I think what was a smart move on his part Very sad. Oh, yeah, I have seen it was like I'm so ripped. Let me just like fucking roll this down This looks like fucking dog-vailer It's just like a door in a lamp So it's these guys who are like holding a laser deuce grew up at night Yeah, it's vague the scene with like in the alley where he stops the muggers were Right, and it's vaguely what it's like. It's like god like what's the do connection like does he know her friends with she says she was friends Yeah, but it's got more like Robocop like woman at knife point Yeah, and this movie and the the stunt guys were playing the thoughts First they say fuck like seven times.

We should have kept up right? He's like breaking bones. He like he like he does this Yeah, he looks like Bruce Lee. He's like and he's not he's like oiled up.

He's very oiled up He's very are you looking at it right now? Yeah, and like you know, it's like a really smart skinny He's he's buff. He's buff and right and the way that's a very serene energy of it is so weird Especially since like this is not Spider-Man at all. He's not like a martial artist.

No, this is exactly what you expected at this time To see when you're making spider when you watch the channel go I guess they had to make Spider-Man like And you watch the screen test and you cannot believe that they showed this to Sony that Sony went okay, you're right Toby's tough And I'm a spider man. It went great Toby go back playing puppy dog never do this every I'm not lighting the movie like this It will never have this man as I know score to the screen test is so like So that was just a hood winged Sony. Yes, you know, that's funny David. Yes Intentional air about you today.

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Yeah, right like a season Maybe two season is not the classic you tilt the camera and he's climbing up Like he has like big weird. Yes, it's really creepy looking And like they did a lot of just like B roll up like they put an actor in the suit and had him stand on top of buildings And they would just like fly around with a helicopter and that was like they use that shot like a hundred times right though Was it the pilot for that was released in Europe? They released a bunch of there's like two or three that they released theatrically like overseas Are they good? plays the director in one's Not bad as Peter Parker He's not bad.

He's a little older, you know like he's more of like a workplace drama cuz he's just like a guy at the Daily Bugle He's not really you know, he doesn't read like a kid like to him It's it's so so can and basically goes under after Superman 4 is released It's a metaphor and master's the universe or the two things in 87 the tank could kill them They of course famously renamed themselves path a you know weird attempt to buy path a they'd be like well What if we have the same name is you doesn't work? It's like how in high school I tried to change my name to Griffin Alba I hope that just I'll be like I guess we're married and he took my name exactly They are sucked into MGM the rights become absolutely a legal mess like right at a certain point I guess Corroco gets in charge of it because that's where James Cameron comes aboard. Yes. Well James Cameron Basically, so I was looking at this last night He has a book that came out a couple of months ago And I and I I did I basically they were like so James Cameron does this book It's a really nice book of his like concept art right and it's actually the same publisher that published my man They emailed sometimes they asked me if I want to cover their stuff and whatever and they're like Do you want to come do a round table interview with James Cameron?

And I was like I never do round table right anything and I will absolutely go and and you had spoken him before right? No, okay, but you were in that documentary the sci-fi oh, yes I'm in James Cameron's story of science fiction quite a lot. Yeah, he wasn't behind the Barking yeah, Matt do it again come on Matt Yeah futuristic and I'm put on the dots and jump in this water We're doing this mocap you can call your breath for 14 minutes right? But in the book the last two pages of the book are his his artwork were spider-man He created and then he talks about what he wanted to do with the movie So I'm like well, I'm going and I'm just gonna ask him about yeah Because he's such an interesting create because Terminator 2 is when he really picks up baton right Right, right?

I actually might even be a little before that I guess it's post- Terminator 2 that he has the clout to demand like this will be my next Project, but he's the one who basically when can goes under he's the one who's like well I always want he's kind of like Sam Raimi He's always love spider-man He wants to do it He tried and he's trying for years to try to get someone to get the rights because we're saying like it's weird It's all fucked up because like someone on to the TV right someone on to the movie right you know via comm is involved or whatever And it's because of all these like so he tries to get he's trying to get people to get the rights for him Somebody does at one point, but then they go under I guess Corroco does but then they have yes problems He works on it for a little while and then what happens is eventually Sony gets their hands on some of it Or they claim they do and he tries to get Fox to buy it. Yeah, basically take them right take them on This is so the light storm setup in 1997 the film rights for spider-man were awarded to MGM in the wake of Corroco's bankruptcy as part of a legal Dispute over the fate of cutthroat island so it's some weird like judges like I guess the spider-man rights can go over here Like he's like dividing up some pie after and then Fox comes in James Cameron using them as a stalking horse Right, and he's got like a ten-year deal like he's like get me the spider-man rights But a Los Angeles court reversed the decision I just described and said the MGM rights were worthless because they had not made a spider-man movie like they were required I think to make sure within ten years of buying the right right and they never have right so they never did like fantastic Fourth thing they never made the ghost movie right and so Sony is given the rights along with the home video rights and the television rights You know very complicated legal maneuver that like pays off via comm or whatever And so now in 1999 Sony has all of spider-man to itself and they will never let it go Obviously this is JJ didn't pull this up. So I don't have the specifics to cite I'm gonna tell this word broadly But there was a thing where one Sony had the rights and they were actively developing the spider-man movie and Marvel was still fairly hard up for cash This is the late 90s. They're in terrible shit, right?

That's the other part of this that people today would not believe that Marvel almost didn't exist. Yeah, they were totally fucked. They like they shrink their titles I remember like they had almost no comics anymore Yeah, there is this infamous moment where someone at Marvel be at a router Whoever says like if you're really bullish on making this by my movie for like another $20 million will throw in every other character Right, right, right? And so any like they send it to some fucking executive and he goes like not worth it Yeah, iron man right here When then everything starts to get except maybe not X-men right because XM was their golden goose in the late 90s I guess I was the one that had been set up already, right?

But but there was a point where Cameron was also considering doing he was originally I love yeah He's like suppose it I mean like that's what he talks about in that book and what I asked him about like indeed in our research an interview with Matt Singer He calls it the greatest movie he never made and that he tried to get Fox to basically like Go I don't want to go to war but like fight for the rights because he thought that Sony's legal argument was tenuous And he thought they could get it and they decided it wasn't worth it financially right they possibly could they could have gotten And probably one it would cost them money and that was I mean he says he says That is actually the quote he told me like in the interview said Peter churning the former president of Fox wouldn't go to bat for the Rights he didn't want to get into a legal fight. I'm like are you kidding this thing could be worth? I don't know a billion dollars. Yeah, it's a million dollars later Right right right, but so James Cameron's treatment which is like a 60 page script It's like I just I don't want to commit fully to writing a script I kind of did he you know he's obviously the one who makes the the web shooters organic as big as last in contribution I don't know if it's a controversial thing to say and I don't know if it's just partially generational right that this movie Can't the right time for me I'm reading ultimate where they does ultimate to organic or not?

It does right right the ultimate spider man amazing at some point makes them organic No, I think the man is not old amazing it becomes canonical after the movie for a while Then they take it away turn into a spider at one point that was I was I was I was anti I was an obvious question, but okay Yeah, I think this is I've always liked the organic web shooter thing and I think Cameron's point here is really smart It was a thing that people griped about at the time, but in the comics it was like when he gets bit by the spider What does he gain? Ultimate? He does not do it organ. Okay.

Yeah, it was in a me rat in me at that time In the comics he gets the strength right gets the spider sense He can climb walls He gets the spider sense and then he's like you know what I should have webs and then because he's a science nerd He goes and makes a web formula and he comes up with bracelets. He wears and they have cartridges with web formula And he should I remember this in the animated show right? That's the class is like in the time I'll movie he has it to Like this is back to but James Cameron both have this whole like body horror. He's a teenager It makes sense that he'd have this weird, you know, it's yeah He does become less of an every man when he's that level of this is the whole thing I think that he's just like no one's gonna buy that this kid fucking invented this insane thing That would be like DARPA level, right?

You know, and it's like I agree with that like at the time again I was like again, whatever you can do. Yeah, sure. I don't care right and I also am not one of those people who's like Just stop hauling made it invented it good. Like I win like I don't care who cares who cares, but also I like the stupid cartridges.

They're fun But it is funny to think about how like spider-man's defining power is really he swings and shoots webs and it's like that has nothing to Do with the spider-bikes Plus is it plus is and minus it's like I think James Cameron's point is very valid like and it makes it does make sense It's just in like the comments. It's a lot more fun when he's because he has to make he's got a by the web Right by the ingredients. It's always scrounging for money. That's what I like about it.

That's the part of the web shooters That's fun. He can't afford to like make this stuff But yeah, it is pretty absurd that a kid like if you could create those shooters you would be you would be a really But Cameron wanted to make a spider-man movie that probably would have had a similar tone to like true lies and turn their Like you want to make something sexy and darker? Yeah, there was not gonna be a costumed villain He said in a statement I don't understand I think he said this to you that he morphed kingpin an Electra into one guy as the villain don't really know what that is But I guess some kind of like gangster ninja Many scripts like the many of the scripts have these but Cameron just like the villain I don't like the villain and you like any of the other villains Amazing villain. Yeah, he's great cuz here's his deal and I'm gonna tell you okay, please never what is there?

Taking these notes go ahead. Here's this deal and spider flames big as fucking hell. He is he's large tall and wide It's like a square. Yeah, I mean Just got a little bit funny how it spider-man like when kingpin's introduced before he becomes the daredevil villain Yeah, spider-man just makes fun of how fatty is all the time.

Yeah, it gets a little repetitive in those 70s comics anyway Another interesting point of course James Cameron not getting spider-man is when he's just like you know what? I'm gonna do my own thing right no more IP for me. I'm going to Pandora, baby It's gotta be from the brain of James Cameron because I don't want to deal with this shit anymore. Okay, David Fancher Chris Columbus Ron Howard.

Yeah, their names that make sense for that era absolutely guys who can handle a big project This movie to be big people who have made big movies that please everyone So they are the biggest names mentioned, but yeah, Sam Raimi like you said He said put me down for number 17 and he served us to the top of the list because he's so passionate and Fancher had done by club Is this again? Laura's iskin and Ziscan was the main producer on this and so people assumed look he's so Technologically adept and this movie is going to have a lot of ground and effects He's also hip and cool and she likes him He's probably the guy who's gonna get hired to do this and then Raimi sees that story that says out of nowhere Raimi Swung into the top of the list and he's like holy shit I have and then they offer him the fucking job the craziest part of this is the thing where he was about to go on the gift Yes, and Sony was like we will pay paramount I think you would lay the gift like he can shoot it and then they delayed post production Right as long as he goes straight from shooting the gift into spider-man And then he does post on both movies at the same time We'll pay you like a million dollars to delay the editing of the gift for like nine months So David Kep is the screenwriter, but of course he is the credit is credit screenwriter There's many many drafts before any director comes on. Yes, he worked off of Cameron's draft apparently Cameron I gotta get this right Scott Rosenberg Alvin Sargent all had genuine You know like rights to a credit right they all voluntarily withdrew for whatever reason Probably because they were given money is my assumption by the Sony Columbia picture corporation But you know like but they're like whatever and Kep is accredited Sergeant of course long-trenders to work this again, right and then he gets the writing credits on two and three Yeah, he worked on the kept working on them He's like a rainy hand right? I'm just saying when he's writing these movies like he's yeah, he was born in 1927 Yes, yeah, right and I'm sorry for reference He wrote like the paper moon and ordinary paper moon not taking moment.

Yeah, but yeah paper moon right now He's like not David cap. Yeah, but I have always viewed him as the secret sauce to these movies in a lot of ways There's a lot of a lot of commentary for this movie Yeah, even though he's not credited on this movie as like you know He's like in scene after scene. He'll be like Alvin Sargent did some wonderful writing for this scene a lot of the stuff with Peter and Mary Jane That's the way it feels so old and the tone and the characterization And just how broad it is yes and not Since here I guess is the work right you know like I'm not afraid of being sincere I mean we'll talk about the monologue Peter does to Mary Jane in the hospital Oh, I mean the thing you told Spider-Man the thing that of course he told Spider-Man when talking to spy which by the way That was a scene I remember seeing in theater opening weekend where the audience started laughing and they were like this is too much You have 100% one step too far and I watch it out I'm like this is the most and dear. Well now like Kevin Feidey would shoot a bazooka at this scene You'd be like that You know two sits here Yeah, I'm not gonna have a result but the scene I want to pin that is the one where I watch it I go this would just never happen today and if it did it would not have this pony would not have this bridge which Macey Gray performing live Peter Mary Jane backyard.

Yeah, sure right like where she's I want to be an actress that that that scene The original script we're not gonna And I was angry and what goblin all in the original cap script too many so they they sort of slowly sand him out But it was gonna be green goblin and doc ock for a long time and then they finally were like you know what we can't have like a doc And a green goblin origin story this movie is a tight 121 minutes. Yeah now. I guess it'd be different probably right? I don't know but certainly there was a thing I mean, it's like stupid right but I was like digging into all the merch for this movie and there was a an odd item I remember early 2000s push to revolutionize trading cards were trading cards were CD ROMs sure this sounds like a Griffin thing absolutely Griffin But there was a set I remember from playing at selling that was like the spider-man CD-ROM trading cards where it's like each card has Movie clips and bio's and whatever right and so it was a pack of the four characters And it was spider-man Mary Jane green goblin and the fourth one is just Harry Osborn sitting at a desk We love it.

It is funny to think about that being like who's our fourth most merchandiseable It's also wild that they take three movies to do him. Yeah, he's just hanging out Right, but he's just hanging out for three minutes like the patience to maybe too much patience sometimes from I think they just fuck up Three I think they do a good job with him. I do too. I love it.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean the end of with him and this one The ending is so perfect. I mean, it's like one of the just the perfect spider-man I mean the last like 1520 minutes of the movie in general is just so spider-man. It is it's amazing But like yeah, the stuff with the stuff with spectacular.

Yeah, yeah Sensational friendly neighborhood. Sorry. Exactly, but yeah the stuff with Harry at the end where he you know, he thank God for you Peter But he also you know despise a spider-man now It's just so deliciously, you know that that is the real the real juice of spider-man there is so great It's the same I mean the my favorite thing about spider-man is that he makes his money taking pictures of spider-man that is possible then used to harass spider-man There's nothing you can do about it like you sit down you're like why doesn't he just go to it's like no You don't understand that is part of the existential the whole existential concept of spider-man is just that he works hard Nobody likes him. You know what every victory which again like the end of this movie is so perfect for it's like every victory as insane of the This movie was allowed.

Yes, really insane. I remember when I was a teen people being like why doesn't he get to kiss Mary Jane at the end? Yeah, right like pushes away. Yeah, and he's like bye.

I'm spider-man It's like roll credits get out of here mopes away and a long quote from a funeral as friends dad But just the fact that every victory as spider-man ruins Peter Parker's life Yeah, right like that is and that and the daily bugle thing is part of that but just like every element of his life It was the other it was one thing Without ten things going on He's a lucky that's the perfect and I just totally guess it was the one thing that I thought Stanley said to his credit where he actually showed Some insight is still like what makes my brother because he always would just be like but this is the way he is to have good character You gotta come up with a clever idea for a power right? But then he said he said the thing for me was spider-man was always there's a bad guy at this part of town and Aunt May is really sick and her medications on the Other part of that is then every single one of those the whole thing with those Stanley interviews is I do think of people not maybe when he was Really old people ground him down. He would finally be like yeah, you know, maybe Steve Dicco did deserve more credit I did give it to him But like you have to get through an hour of him being like my idea was a teenager would be a superhero You know like his whole glitzy, you know I'd say to his credit in one of the things I watched which was shot in 2002 right he was like they call me The creator of spider-man, but the reason I really truly believe I'm the co-creators because I only had a thing on a paper I never could come up with this design. He did eventually Became more a magnet over time.

Right? But yes, no, that's the that's the stuff that just like spiritually same Ramey understands exactly what spider-man movie needs to be and I remember walking out with my friends and then being like So did you love that was that like your favorite movie of all time? And I was like I like it a lot I'm surprised by how much it feels like a comic book and I wasn't saying it as a complaint I was just genuinely it was just like I was miraculous it was like they pulled it off right that for years the conventional wisdom was you could not do this Right you had to do it a different you had to make it look less like this You had to make it feel less like this right and then that was part one part two was then it made more money in one Weekend than any movie had ever made and so suddenly it wasn't just like oh well I think it's great and they pulled it off. It's like oh everyone the mono culture is Accepting and they like it and that was the other thing that really changed it was the biggest movie since Titanic Yeah, and it just yeah, it worked on every it worked and it worked for families I do think that was so crucial to it right it's not just the teenagers and young men wanted to see it Which is like the classic right it was like you could take your kids to see this movie It's not that intense little intense, you know, I was like ringing I don't know if it was a panel or press conference or whatever when they were promoting the movie and he just kept on saying play He's just so rainy so sincere and how we talked about these things He's like Michael was to make a motion picture that is really really thrilling for the whole family You see it's there with your popcorn and you can't believe the things that are on the screen But there is enough focus on the interior lives of these characters that adults will still be held into this And it's like oh great.

It is that simple. It's just like I'm gonna put crazy shit on screen You know and he talks about for how stylized and heightened this movie feels now He was like I don't want to do Burton Gotham City I don't want to do this like super design thing right but I think that it's so smart is he was like I want to be real New York I want to shoot in real New York real locations because that was a super power of the comics that was like And this is the first movie that does that right like this is the beginning of New York is like a hot filming location But he was like we went out of our way to try to find all the genuine locations in New York that feel magical So rather than recreating things. Yeah, like that rooftop by the church, you know where he drives Mary Jane I'm outside the New York Public Library. Yeah, even the Queen's neighborhood.

It's so picturesque and great like a perfect setting for a queen Uncle Ben drives him from D Queens to the main branch of the New York City Public Library Correct And he's like and it's like fucking 1 p.m. I don't like it's the daytime and he's like I'll meet you here at I'm sorry first. He says hold on a second. He turns some 40 on off on the radio Most recent some 41 song Peter and then and then yes, and then he says I'll pick you up in 12 hours What is the lie here but beautiful is like I really hit the books so Branch it's like he's gonna be hitting the microfeed exactly like he can't go to his local library I mean, I'm just saying Uncle Ben.

He's a men. She's just like sure. I'll just fuck around He's got Sam Raimi's car. I mean what are you gonna do with that car other than drive it around?

You know what's a funny thing in this movie that like it hasn't aged poorly But it's just like very of its moment and the moment changes maybe right after this There's the line it's in that the taking out the trash scene where they're talking about Peter and Mary Jane What they want to do with their lives and he's like I don't know move to the city and an idea of like being from Queens And being able to work your way up to Manhattan is like apartment downtown Where's I feel now when I tell people I live in hand they're like what's the matter right? It was a fair question right that you're like if you live in Queens you don't really live in New York the city Very Saturday night fever. Yeah, you know that you know Manhattan It's truly like two thousand two was like the last month for every circle. That's true That's true, but you're right about that right actually true But everything about this it's like Cliff Robertson and Maris me Harris Obviously it's right to now note that yes every iteration of spider-man, you know for the next iteration There will be teenagers I assume like Ben Right May may but uh, you know, he feels like he what is he he's an electrician right?

I love that detail. He just got fired yeah As the chief electrician at the plant and now he's screwing in light bulbs Right, like what a nice even the computer have computers have analysts right it feels so throwbacky It's like a single income like outer Queens household, right? That house is amazing. It's so old old you know uncle and aunt or grandma and grandpa house with that wallpaper And you know spider-man Lord better than me He's supposed to be I mean there makes no sense because in the comics and me is like homically Mr.

Burns old right like she's like so To crap it and like you're like how is this like what's the age? She's 45 but she's got city miles But like you know obviously they they zazz him up and I do love I Kind of forgot how much I love Cliff Roberts in this movie so fantastic in this and it is funny that they talk about like Obviously Rosemary Harris I'm where I remember she's in the sequels right now She's doing her thing yeah like Defoe is the only guy who actively pursues involvement in this movie from the cast It sounds like everyone else had to be talked into it right to some degree by rainy being like here's my take I know it sounds like bullshit, but right characters. I know it sounds like bullshit and Defoe is like fun to do a cartoon Yeah, welcome to the first choice right I look like a dog Well, I feel like the whole thing with Defoe is just like we're making a comic book movie who should play the film Well, right like he was just always gonna be one of the first off or he always talks about he's like I I like saw it out They I think I think I mean how much was their first choice they really want to cage before Malkovich I don't see anything about cage cage. I believe cage was the first choice.

Well that's crazy That's a patient instead but it was just because cage was known for being such a common He just turned it almost on Superman but they really tried you can get an a list start play this and he just said I'm doing Adaptation yeah, Malkovich got far along Defoe. Yeah, he was into it and he was very into house and seersam I mean was I don't know the first guy who does anything right? I mean like not a bad way experimental theater He was like this is a fun opportunity to like do this much physical performance He did like most of his own stunts. He was like I want to be the guy in the suit the whole time side of the continuity performance I want to learn how to do all this shit I like a goblin I like willing to always a hot guy, but he looks like a funny On his ass a slight with green and just let him wow it is insane that they cover up his face It's so crazy I understand that great nose where he does kind of look like the helmet that they give him Yes, does kind of seem like a exaggerated version of him.

You're absolutely right I mean I feel like I remember at the time pre-scene movie right that was the most controversial thing people like the green goblin looks lame What is that they're doing power range that was the thing everyone was right? I mean the green goblin look like a power right the green goblin in the comics is I mean what they eventually did in no way home Where they just have one the phone a hoodie like I get that's a good homage The thing in the comics makes no sense. He pulls off like a rubber man. Yeah, I was like how is I don't get out of his costume Talked about because there's that amazing you can see on YouTube the studio ADI test where they did an animatronic mass Right, yeah That looked like a goblin face It actually looked very cool But rainy was like the logic of it always like just befuddled me where it was like he's a guy He puts a rubber mask on and he puts the mask on the mask has full expressions It just looks like a cartoon face.

It's like she can't read the mask where it's like This is the yes. Yeah, I mean it's it looks incredible. It does very fucking cool But you also go but you're right it the logic of it is why would he look like right? Right, so they would be quiet doesn't make office No, my big issue with the green goblin get up in this movie is actually not even how it looks But the sound where they don't like his he doesn't see his all of his lines are like ADR Yeah, it doesn't match the visual and his movements and he doesn't sound like he's wearing a mask at all And my man told me why yes, we do a good job at that sounds like he's talking through a mask They do the weird thing where you know you can see his eyes, you know He'll like pop open the eyes right or the mouths to sometimes right where I feel like they're trying to get a phone Right, but you're then you're just when you're looking at me Just like you look crazy like what they don't totally solve it and it's very telling that no way home.

They were like all right Let's smash the head right right Was just like when you're on the rooftop scene which I like as I've seen it stuff But she's like anytime it's the two of them talking in full costume You're losing something because this could just be fucking anybody Yeah, you know whether or not you're told that it is them actually in there It does start to feel like the footage that they inherent on power Rangers that's a bond then tries to double over where you're like It's just connected to the actors. It's one of the smart things with Spider-Man 2 where he's just like it's just off from a lean Atrapto right and they also start taking Toby's mask off a lot more often in three which people can play about but you do need to do Got a show absolutely put him. Yeah Yeah, let's just talk about the movie Spider-Man a little bit. Yeah, should we just take a quick picture before we get into the plot?

Do you guys want to just like all get into a line and then the spider will come down from the ceiling and might us? Oh, right right for the school paper. Yes, right. Right.

I was trying to get us in quick. Yeah. Yeah, so here's the thing with this movie You know, I made the very intimate confession to the woman I've been dating that the universal fanfare gets me really jazz There are few things together in the graphics of the globe and whatever, right? Right, so we're watching this movie and she's stuck she stayed after you said that we've had a number of conversations We're working for it.

It's a fair question. Any time that she'll throw her back in my face as But we're watching this movie and the Columbia lady comes on she goes like Oh, dude, there's the fucking Columbia lady get you amp to right now. I'm not some fucking freaky ever in the strings The strings do get really good there It's it's one of those things where just like when you hear the Danny Elfman batman theme for the first time you're like fuck Yeah, this is what Batman sounds yeah And I remember just because the trailers used other scores and pop songs and shit having no sense about the score This movie was gonna be before sitting down in the theater and when those strings start just immediately feeling goosebumps like fuck This sounds like Spider-Man He has like musically captured Spider-Man and no one has improved upon it since it so to me like I remember Again sitting in the theater the very first time seeing this and the moment for me early on when I was like oh We're in good shape is when the title credit comes up based on the Marvel comic book by Stanley and Steve Dicke Yeah, they give both of them credit and they're credited in the opening credits which is something that you know like just wasn't They were showing that off with right there like right exactly It wasn't like something they shoved at the end of the movie or you know You know it was like front and center based on the Marvel comic book by Stanley and Steve Dicke Oh, but it did feel that feels different rainy got the job through enthusiasm and somehow he convinced everyone It's funny to be like fuck it. We're just gonna do this.

We're gonna do this Embrace it now. I was not convinced at all until I was told this story was not for the faint apart And I was like well David you were assuming he was an ordinary guy not care in the world exactly And then I was told that someone had lied to someone that's a great scene to like the opening scene I love the way he's you know the voice over but the way to introduce the bus the route right I didn't take this guy and he's riding along side the bus and the fact that he's introduced as just like the Hand he's almost looks subterranean and what's the end of the movie is him soaring through Yes Manhattan so like the sort of yeah You're telling me that Peter Parker kid is the same guy and spider-man to believe but true But yes, it's in between the two like that stuff like structurally is just like so smart rainy I think in what I come with her is watching because I'm referring to the caberns of New York City Which I thought was such a good term to describe like the liminal space between building right there But yes, how much credit does this movie deserve and I'm asking I don't know I think a lot But like all the video games that have come out since then that have had spider-man like swinging where the game They're so just about swinging around New York How much of it has to do with like this movie and like the shot after he drops Mary Jane on the rooftop where he Swings runs up the side of the building goes whoo and swings away like how many games have just been built on like that one energy I shot rainy truly nails the swinging stuff so fucking hard which felt hard like it felt like how many of you know How do you nail the CGI any whatever yeah, and even just what are the physics of this like what is the inter logic of this whatever? Because it's one of those things the comics the other yada yada's is like he's always he swing it's right It's definitely something you could say like as great as the comics are they don't have anything like the actual Beauty and physics and grace of movement right a comic can never do that and that's the one thing where they took that like the idea of it the Energy of it right and like you can see the individual moments that look kind of like panels But they gave it this fluidity and excitement and also like that they just nailed it There were those the early 2000s like PlayStation and 64 games and then there's movie tie-in game for this And I remember that being the first one that sort of got the mechanics of the swinging down well Yeah, and the time it felt amazing I'm a minor man the second game was the one that was really mind-blowing yes open world Yes, the first one was good to it felt like a big-ass deal, but even like playing that game I remember being like you're just like swinging from the sky. Yes, like you just shoot right that was the whole thing Where's the fucking web like you know you in the comics you just like well, you don't think about and rainy cheats a little But I do think he does a good job Especially that go first time He's swinging of like yes to go to that building and then find another and like the time when his feet touch the ground It's like there's momentum.

He's gonna you get stopped. It truly is one of those things were like the infamous teaser trailer For this movie of course was the sequence that was shot only for the trailer that's like the psycho I rewatch it. It is so funny that they're like bank robbers. It's like done like a Michael Bayman.

Yeah It's so silly like both of us. It looks janky to be yes the helicopter where they're like it won't go Not done by rainy right but but obviously famously the James Cameron script had a climax of the world trade center I fly and he and that the World Trade Center was like his nest like he had a permanent web up there He says in an interview like I love Sam Raimi I hope he takes it out of there right because whatever obviously I'm gonna take out of there But I do think putting the glimpses of the swinging in the trailers what that original teaser in the later Charles was the thing that made this like a fucking no But that was the whole thing was like ultimate spin and look at this fucking footy No, it was just incredible And I think rainy nailed it so hard that all the other movies have been fucked because they're just like we don't want to Read exactly what he did. Well, and if you're Colin doesn't even swing that much look. I'll say this I mean, you know the mark web movie.

Uh-huh the guy has the last name web I had to hire remember it had the the gimmick of the first person photography where you see my crime up the wall Yeah, it was a cool for five seconds. That was the teaser But it was only like you want to do that. Yeah, I do like in the Holland movies when he swings with MJ that she's flipping out She's like this is awful. Yes.

I do think that's necessary I agree, but that's like that's the end of the very end of the yeah The magic of the swinging is a little Talking times, you know, yeah, but it is that thing where they're just like bringing it up so hard and part of it is like Classic rainy ingenuity where he was you know on top the CGI everything else. It was like let's get a helicopter Let's have a metal like rope hanging from the helicopter and let's have a camera at the end then and let's just fly helicopter This is the same anything. What can I go to camera to like throw into space? Yeah, you can see GI him swinging But what's gonna make it feel real is if the camera is also swinging in between real building Is it crazy to say that this stuff looks better than like no the current Marvel swing?

I mean the curve is a some of the CGI has aged but like the visceral quality of it It feels not it's it's I mean to I think it's better because they've got mistakes in it. Yes, right? It was just like a perfect the acrobatics of two or so cool Like where is this only as a little bit like this has that one the slow motion where he's sort of you know zigging around the Razors. Yes, I do think so much of it is the camera work That's why it still looks better even if you like hold the CGI up and you're like this man does look a little like silly putt here, you know On Burgess Well, I mean of them of them I'm not trying to insult John Watts here But like in general how many of the Marvel movies do they hire a director in the same way you hire the actor to not be in the suit Right, how many of them do they hire the director to not worry about the action and they just let the action be like here You've hired Sam Raimi who is just an incredible visual Silist innovator and that's the thing is like you watch the movie and the camera work and editing is so precise And he knows exactly where to put the camera and when to cut and it feels and it all feels cohesive and it doesn't feel like Oh, now here's a random action scene that we've we've we Storyboarded before we even wrote a script nothing like that You feel the fingerprints on literally every single inch of this movie and I do think he's gripping from himself There's like the stuff from Dark Man where he shoves the guys Sitting in the theater in 2002 going I was copying himself.

I was like I could like they didn't just hire Sam Raimi They let him make a Sam Raimi movie But I think part of his He's not talking in these archival interviews about like I really thought they would hire someone who had made big movies like this Before and he was like my movies don't connect on that level. They're not at this level of budget He had never made him. What's his most expensive movie before this like the quick in the dead? I'll leave me right like with my guess like a forty maybe a million or whatever Yeah, but I think the thing he had going for him was that he was a problem solver and that from a studio level They're like we still don't know how to make these things work on screen and how to make them not look stupid And you almost need someone who can think creatively more than someone who has this movie makes everything that could look stupid look not stupid Yeah, essentially the green goblin costume sure like there's a couple things.

Yeah, that's the closest hoverboard fucking rules What do you think of the bomb that turns people into skeletons? I like it. I love it That's pretty good this weapons ever. Yeah, it never recurs right?

You never would have been funny if he came out in the MCU in Skellington like Holland He's like I still got these fucking things instant death. Yes, this thing is near you And then that's like dust out of here. It is a truly deadly weapon. I don't know why the military is not interested That's not big when I was really just crazy military like Norman.

This is all bullshit I'm like I don't know bad ass glider and they're like we've seen the glider and it's like I feel like you guys would love the glider. It's good It's great. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, it's great.

Yeah, it's a pair to whatever fucking thing they they go to see and then you know Yeah, the other thing is like garbage. It looks like a cold medicine pill or whatever. Yes, it looks like a bad RoboCop villain It looks like the kind of thing that like it's it's ed 201 right that would they would and it would malfunction and kill someone And then they would and then yeah, that would be the punchline. It's so fucking bad It is funny when we talked about like well We weren't gonna do the fucking prosthetic goblin face because I don't understand the internal logic that we really want to build it up It makes sense.

His bombs turn you into skeletons. No, no, it's like go ahead You know, I like about this couple of things It's like a thing you read in one panel of a conflict when you're a kid that clearly was a positive idea that you're like this Pawn took me for decades, right? I never stopped. How would that be allowed?

Yeah, how does one image? I mean, they're saying Sammy does like also he does like scale He does again to put a little more Sam Raimi energy into the movie and I like if anything if he's gripping his own shots from dark Man once I turn to skeletons Green Goblin should take some of their bones and turn into fucking instruments again and start doing a little army of darkness. Yeah, you should play them I was gonna say is he's like I want there to be the process understanding how this costume would come to be and the glider is Experimental technology and you have that one shot where you see the guy testing the glider and he's wearing the suit I guess this is the insulated suit and you're like, okay I get that's what the suit looks like and then you're like and of course he collects rare masks So then he just makes a vacuform mask in the same aesthetic style as the body suit that looks kind of like his face Yeah, that's true I mean he puts the rare masks in there. I guess to explain it right inhales green smoke.

He does He's fucking ash should be green and I'm gonna add to his skin is but he has to be able to be you know Normal Norman on and then he you know transforms in there is a version of the comics where that does right? Yeah, he sort of hulks out. Yeah, he's not my favorite interpretation I mean it's also you know what Norman I was like in the comic and Harry Oh, I do kind of think hindsight's 20-20 they never would have done this at the time But you do sort of feel like you should inhale the green fumes and it should just be whenever he gets wound up You put prosthetics on Willem de Foe and he wears a fucking hoodie and it's like a green face that isn't full monster But is enough different so no no that's not that one He has kind of a classic hairstyle that is inexplicable a widow peak no deep would deep when I was peak with these right It's kind of like red and black way weird ridges and tight wavy hair which Harry has as well and then Sam man has which Always used to confuse me like why does Sam and similar hair they were lame. Yeah.

Who's that second picture is him again? That's Harry. This is his son Harry. That's just a refranko to you He looks like that weird like 90s sort of like subculture like leader Do you know the fake religion jump talking about Jim Jones the guy with like the pipe it was like an underground zine thing?

Okay, I'm talking to the wrong crack. Yeah, I'll figure out what that is anyway Yeah, he looks like Mac Tenley is what he looks like he doesn't look like James Franco No, he doesn't know he doesn't I mean the James Franco is also concession where it's like Sony screen tested all these like brooding young Heart the Rob's rainy put his chips down on Maguire and then they're like he at least put fucking Franco as the friend Well, he makes a genius. Okay. Okay.

Okay. He makes to me he has that same. It's sort of a yeah I get you he's like the rich version of his character from Breezy. You know, yeah, who's just kind of like handsome, but dumb He's also a very good match for Tafoe.

I think he is very good together very good in these movies And so well cast and it was it is funny to think about what an exciting actor He was it was corny that he had this brand-o thing right where he eventually got kind of sick of it But like in the 2000s he was excited really thought and like when he said well get to fucking I was a great and powerful Yeah, I really and like rise the plan of the age I really feel like it became this kind of thing of like why is Franco so phoned in like it's like so boring He got like so dull in those moves. Yeah, and he used to be such a like a live wire I mean, I know he's like, you know a problematic there are a lot of things going on with him But like yeah, it's but I really like him in these movies But it is I mean again the setup of these is so weird where it's like okay. There are a bunch of 25 year olds They go to high school. I'm like all right.

I'm sure sure sure sure Toby Peter Parker's in her He's a classic see yes, Mary Jane. She's she's pretty like so Right here. She's dating flash toms. You know looks like a linebacker It's Joe Prengenella and then you're like and his best friend is this guy in like an armani suit with like up hair Like it doesn't make sense that their friends accept I guess that Norman is weird like it makes more sense than Norman's his friend in the comics He looks like a door right?

He should be that in this universe and then Norman Harry should be the cool kid in school He's rich sorry Harry. Yeah, yeah, yeah rich and handsome and when hair like stumbles into relationship with MJ You're like this doesn't this isn't a tough sell for me No, I will say I I had a friend like this in high school Sure who was like absurdly rich and well connected and like so uncomfortable with it and like he's all messed up by his weird dad I get it I'm like went out of his way to dress down and it was like a thing where people had to realize how handsome he was where he Acted so uncomfortable that people had to be like oh that guy's got very good bone structure There is that thing I do buy in this movie. It's a bit of a stretch But I do buy it that when he goes up to talk to Mary Jane Right, it's like the first time that she's actually looking at his face and being like oh you're hot Right, I could date you so they go on a classic to I think the funniest moment My wife noted this is when the teacher comes over to Harry There's like we're gonna talk about how you listen and I'm like he's a grown man. He looks like four years young Yes, yes, you know everything's like we're gonna talk about how you listen to six years old also This is supposed to be like a week before they all graduate from school What are you gonna do?

This is a nothing field trip. This is one of those field trips at a teacher schedule cuz they're like look I don't want to teach anyone teach anyone right so at this at this tour of a science lab Peter Parker gets bitten by a Genetically engineered spider grip. Can I just say quick you can I watching this movie which I had not seen in a couple years Oh wow, you know and and to I prefer as do most people that I assume you do as well for sure I mean, it's yeah, it's not like this is my favorite movie of all time But it certainly was very important movie to me in terms of when I came out all that's worship I was watching and realizing like oh I do think this movie perhaps even more so than two just because of when it came out is Imprinted upon me in the way that like some people who were like thirteen went Jurassic Park came out or Raiders or Star Wars Where they're like I know every fucking line and shot of this or I was watching it and I was just like I know every line I was a teacher at the field trip set I was surprised by how much I remembered everything so perfect as well and I don't think this is movies I endlessly rewash No, I might have it I see a lot of guess I thought at least three times in theaters I don't think it was just such a big cultural moment that it was like everything from that first viewing is burned in entirely down to little Things that just as they came up I was like right when there's that tracking shot through the bus Yeah, like all the nerds on the bus to Mary Jane, right? And or it's when he's looking for what he's looking for say that one's like no way buddy Yeah, there's there's the fat guy eating a donut yeah, and clearly rainy wants the gag of the jelly coming out of the doughnut Yeah, and in order to get the maximum impact of that he's taking a bite out of the wrong side Yep, so there's the side with the bite already out of it So the opening is there for the jelly, right?

You're right and then things like that you're like I remember exactly that approach to donating Whatever it's burning my memory and then this fucking teacher being like I swear to God we're gonna talk about you listen My last one whatever he says you were talking during that entire woman speech. Yeah, but he's like that we thought we thought who's the way she's so recognizable she's one of those people who's in everything the Yes, yeah, yeah, a spider sense. I do like that The rhythms of every line with you know even more than the director. I just love the way they introduced like here's this power You know they do a good job like and here's all our super son of a there's one missing You know you're watching and it's minute six and there was a three-minute credit sequence like there was economical Well when you once you've been told the story's not the faint of heart.

No really not a lot more I'll be like you need to lie and they've also that's a thing they've let you down easily They've let you know that you've been lied to and they're gonna take care of you from here on out Peter gets bitten by a spider Every right and he gets the powers of a spider through this fight. Yeah, be funny if Stanley's origin Was just like I've been my spider this one time Parallel and I forgot that it really is in parallel is the Norman Osborn origin story like it's pretty much at the same time Which is why ringy cut doc obviously was like I really want to kind of write fifty fifty. Yeah. Yeah, and so there's just a lot of the board Which is the kind of thing MC would never do that.

They're not burning a minor villain on some guy who's in two scenes like no Waiting where he's listing like the side effects and goes back to formula sanity insanity And he takes the positive sanity I mean I forgot that Norman drops, you know, I'm something of scientists myself like that's right at the start basically He is something of a scientist About how he is like an objective based actor he is based I mean I agree No, but like he defo is so non-methody that he's like here's what I do I read the script and it tells me what to do and then I do the thing yeah, I mean I don't internalize it Like when I interviewed or I talked to Eggers for the lighthouse He said like how to foes approach really freaked patents now, right? Because it's like let's do stuff baby pants is like no I've been like thinking very hard about this and like rehearsing this character Golem like you write something in his mouth. He's like okay, you know, and he talks But it's like it's why he wants to do this like he was like a cartoon movie. That's fun like a big And I'll do all the moving and everything is it okay if I go big?

Yeah, he's right off his own animation his first Oscar nomination. Oh, second second. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah He's good. He's so fucking good.

Can I have a very hot take that's probably not true. Okay. I think he's better in two I kind of just in that just one scene because that one seems to see I think about the most with maybe since I've seen two more Yeah, but I've had sweet like I think about that all the time. That seems incredible I do think he has the benefit to have never had to wear this fucking costume.

Yeah, I come all the way around tonight I don't mind a little bit of affinity for it. I don't know just At this point because even at the time I was like costume's tough pill to swallow like but no I mean the fucking mirror scene That's the one I just remember a Oscar waxing rips on about where he's like this movie just stops cold to let a good actor Stay with him. You're in a conversation with himself for five minutes That's all great and there's like no effects and there's that moment where he's like he's so good that the way his face changes Before golem had an end to the scene. Yeah, I guess he was briefly But you know that moment where he's like holding the newspaper up to himself as like green goblin And then you see it within the one shot with no cuts He just drops the goblin and looks at the paper, you know like this is the thing He's best in those back to formula when he grabs him He's so good at the physicality of just kind of you just feel like his freak Sliding Fucking Chirtless to foe turning green and giving him slightly like a little bit of a nose or contact lenses or fucking whatever Ben's not Yes, the s-nog I Can see like cat this purple I miss the cab I was head is so like yeah, they're trying to mimic the shape.

Yeah, right. Yeah, right. It is so he has some great lines though I mean, I he's good into but right you're like talking about rapping wolves. No, he's really good I mean, I love him in this.

Yeah, I do love it. I think about it Looking at his fucking armchair I mean the same we were texting about this last night, you know took to move back to Peter's storyline. Obviously he he enters an amateur wrestling Competition or I guess am I professional? How are we describing this event?

So I'm sorry the wrestling. I mean just from the very beginning of spider-man the wrestling is very I mean It doesn't seem like Stanley knew that wrestling was fake when he made it No, and they've sort of maintained that through the years Sort of a layer both saw just sells every line. So I see three things quickly before we get to bones I know we're moving very slowly through this we are moving to move a lot of I don't have to leave Okay, we can talk about it. I still have it.

I know I eventually I just want to say a couple a couple quick things You know just incredible little rainy things. Okay, first of all, obviously the gag with him catching all the food in the fucking tray in the cafeteria It's so good and a truly seared in my memory. Yes, right because it's just like a perfect simple effect It's the stuff that rainy so good at where it's just like this is the cheap stuff This is some Jerry rigging what we went to Ben and I we went to a bar the other night We're playing darts and there was a guy impatiently waiting for the darts board while we were fucking up and doing a very bad job Mm-hmm. You guys were not good at darts shocking you would be a stop But then we end up realizing this guy was fucking worked on vinyl I knew this guy back in the day then we're talking about rainy He worked on Spider-Man 2 and 3 and he was saying the thing that was incredible about rainy was if he wanted more smoke in a scene He would like grab a grip who smoked and just be like here's a tube just start puffing cigarettes and blow the fat feels very Evil dead right where he's like come on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I just think there those gags like that Another image that's here my head is when Peter gets chased out of the cafeteria because he's fucking slammed the the tray on And the tray going up the door is so funny It's like that They're just very tactile very simple in camera whatever and then that flash fight is so well done And it is and is specifically the thing that like the Garfield movie fucks up so badly where you're like this scene feels mean Yeah, well the car is he fight them in a subway train or something That's it basketball. Yeah, and it does feel mean it feels like he's being a bully right and he's not doing that thing There's the spider sense moment where there's the CGI like spitball and the paper airplane But there's more that thing where flash punches and he goes like Well, I'll head back and he looks at it. Right and every time he lands a punch on flash He's like huh, that's like surprise It has this great energy of that whole part is like first the stuff in the kept here is super nightmarish Like where what is this coming out of my hands and why can't I get rid of it and now everyone's looking at me? It has a very teenage nightmarish Yeah, I'm a nightmare of I forgot my lines in the school play I forgot to do my homework Two separate moments where he thinks Mary Jane is waving to him and is it happens outside the field trip and again by the lockers And then with the fight it has this wonderful like fantasy element where he actually gets to beat up his own bully the thing that every nerd ever Dreamed of in high school, but then again it immediately turns where one of the other guys I don't think his name.

I don't know that character is or the actor was like well Chad Some Chad is like wow Parker you are a freak so like his one moment of triumph immediately again That's the ruin right in a park life. It immediately goes from I did it to oh I am a Loom right now I got a way forward to that Ponging back and forth between nightmare and fantasy is amazing same with the wrestling of course he's triumphant Well, it's great You're not gonna get any money. Exactly the clean line of like he sees or her getting the car with flash drums And that's the thing he'll never have I mean flashes so cool this like hair the tank top The world's tallest he's gonna be in magic Mike Excel at some point He'll play a big dick. No.

No. No is it deadshot or what do you think that's true? That's right right right right? I always wait Wilson wait Wilson Is a joke right right Jesus you have that dead book comic where he goes back to amazing spider-man 36 or one of right I don't think it's such a clap.

It's a joke Kelly one Do you have it? I've never been like and every time he sees Norman or Harry I was The craven anyway We do love the cost I assume we all love the costume designing montage something that is never in these movies anymore no and feels very dark man Like I'm gonna really Line you could probably draw comic it's like it's what's so annoying about the MC I'm in the first Iron Man He builds that suit. It's so crucial to the evolution of the story. Yeah, but then after that I guess it's just like yeah It's a guy You know when we meet spider-man obviously the fucking thick marker coloring it in yeah, it's so good There's the MTV movie awards parody of this from this year when Jack Black and Sir Michelle Geller hosted the show And it is crazy how like iconic this movie was already that they're not just referencing and parodying plop beats But they're also parodying the sort of like the visual language of this movie and it was already specific enough of like This is what the costume designing montage looks like I mean I do also like the connecting the dots of the of the screenplay where it's like she and Jay goes off with flashing his car Yes, he goes to look right at cars car ads And that's where he sees the rest like the way they connect it actually is Just very nice and structured and flows together Like he credits spider-man comics in particular being one of the things that taught him how to be a filmmaker because it was like How do you put as much story in if a then B needs to be right?

But you're right He was like how do you put as much story in what image and make it sort of graphically exciting and that whole sequence feels like How do you establish in two panels why he needs to do all of this? Yeah? No in the comics Matt you can probably confirm this for me Right, it's not sure Hogan. Yes, it's the name of the rest of the rest of the fan name But boom some of our who's so good and I truly do wish I was one of those people with the you know the like cardboard So the only times you wish you were on camera yet another Rameous not himself having the guys Process I was like I was in the scene of course that underground wrestling thing with this or write it up guy He's my favorite.

I'm gonna make a homemade saw I love it I love it's so funny that it is much a man Yeah, not playing much a man is so distinctive and they come with this other thing from when we recorded our dark man episode And we were asking why so we thought of the spider-man and he was like I took Nicole to the first one is the first one the one with bones off Green Goblin we but I feel like just a couple lines he lives are ready Hey, buddy, you wait going nowhere. Oh, he's ready. I got you for three minutes His fingers look Vienna sausages He's everything about him is just like the fucking casing is over stuff. There's a lot of great stuff He's not like bursting blood vessels on camera and I actually have a later moment.

That's my personal favorite moment I know you this is the best part of the movie Just the just like I can't believe it right. Yes the power for every limey Bruce Campbell doing a Yeah, that every bit of that is hilarious. Yes, like I mean the way they drag that out is so good the cage coming down What is this event? I take a Spencer incredible one?

She's really funny. She's really funny. She that was her She would pop up in the least for one scene. This was her whole thing.

Yeah. Yeah, it's like a sassy lady I mean before she became a multi-oscillator and winner. Yes, no people names Spider-man He gives him the name which is like another I think huge ring yes The shitty unscrupulous wrestling promoter like all of this is so fucking good bones are so funny Obviously the did your husband make it for you joke does not age well That feels very dated. I know it feels even just a little too mean It feels like a writer's written right like sounds yeah, that would never be fly today It should not I feel like even when people were critical of Toby They were like that is the one scene where he's like up against a wall cracking jokes at a guy You know he's like claunting the dude.

Yes, but of course to me in a side right if he's not fighting your criminal yet I'm a guy who plays the criminal Michael pop John Michael pop John right we talked about him right? Yes, he appeared in one of the other one's in for the love of the game of Sam Todel of course the feared Yankee batter Okay, he's also he's one of those guys who I think works very often as a stuntman or stunt coordinator and it does That's his that's his on screen. That's how he reads right right. This is one of his bigger parts in terms of yeah I'm trying to I'm trying to look up how the thief looks in spider-man Obviously, it's right the way they render it visually is very very from time to time I give him with the fucking Corbin Dallas like that's exactly It is like he's like grown out to the bottom half is dark now.

Yeah, yeah a little sleazy. Yeah, he looks easy He looks yeah, I think he has blonde hair He's a brown jacket and green hat, so I guess they're trying to kind of Evo vaguely I do love him going thinks as this That's the two parts the two parts that are amazing about the staging and again like Sam Maybe just like shooting and say is is that it's not just that he lets him go He moves out of the way Of course it's not just inaction it is that he moves aside that the burglar acknowledges it and says thanks is like and that he has that Shitting grin when he says like I miss the part of my problem I mean, you know the guy's grown him out of three grand feels good in that moment like when you're watching and even though you know You know what you're like you're like you're like Like it's always one step forward two steps back for Peter like that has to be the formula for any good spider-man The promoter is our friend from the bar in yes, love of the game. Yes. Yes, right?

Yes, of course, and of course the Rosemary Harris is in the gift He's actually borrowing a lot of his recent It's like now the last two people to play Mary Jane have been Academy Award winners, right? Yes, and even like Lily Tomlin and spider verse and Cliff R But it's like he's a guy who won best actor like years earlier 40 years earlier. Yeah, and the 60s like Charlie right Yeah, it's like flowers for Algern. I've never seen it not like they're getting Jean Hackman to play Rosemary Harris has an I was gonna be Yes, so somewhat recently I'm just saying Cliff Robertson excellent in this fucking movie But it's like five years later.

They would have been like we need the number one elder statesman in Hollywood 100% Well, they got Martin Sheen for the next machine is really good in Yeah, I mean he's so suited to it. Yeah, yeah, but there's something so he feels really good like everyone in those movies is good It's just those movies Like a plus Leery's incredible Genuine Good looks shitty and are bad. It's weird that you say Garfield Recording on Monday, and it's rude. That's rude to all that good boy.

We're not recording about his movie So I'm sure he hates it. I mean honestly fine. We'll fall asleep though. I mean they're bad tired So, you know, yeah, he was a great power comes from everyone I think the uncle Ben seen is really tough.

It's good. Oh, it's okay, you know It's not like a he doesn't get to say something crazy doesn't get to say like it's okay Agony yeah like crying Obviously was they fought Peterson mean to him. Yeah, I mean another dad turns off some 41 on the radio Maybe that's why he's so paid for I mean we're gonna talk about the soundtrack But it is funny that that's the only one of the songs that actually gets used in a movie and it gets used for like five seconds He's like I turn this garbage No in terms of things that are seared in my mind about this movie There's something about the angle from which rainy shoots Cliff Robertson Yeah, when he's like they're dying Yeah, and like Cliff Robertson, you know I think had some work done to his face has weird old man Hollywood sort of like trying to fight He's got that kind of funny hair. Yeah, I think early hair plugs Yeah, I mean I don't want to disparage No, no, no, but there's something about like when he's lying there his like upper lip is hanging to the side And doesn't pay to and there's something so unglamorous about the way that he dies like it's not a like my final breath I bust on to you.

It's like upset it looks scared scared to die Yeah, scared and sad and can barely get the words out. Yeah, yeah poor uncle Ben It's still retching. We should mention uncle Ben of course is the classic is Raimi's car Yeah You know I found a parking spot right there on You know Part Go to jane or music I'm gonna go get some noodles He could drive like forward and back to queen just over over again like very sweet moment Peter coming home to Aunt May Yeah, I mean that stuff is all really good like him talking to her about the last time they talked and all that right She's it's so cool. You couldn't do it.

No, I'm not even criticizing like the new movies like you just couldn't do it It's just too straightforward. Yeah, people just be like, you know, but she's she is so fucking good. She is great I mean, she's obviously she's such a favorite from thing me Lords, right like I mean the scene of her praying yes Deliverance And the fucking moon dance cafe yelling back at her boss. Yeah, that is I forgot it I don't know how I forgot that she works in the moon dance, but she does she should have been in the tic-tac-boom montage No, but it's crazy.