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And I'm Scott Galloway. That pause says it all. We're sort of a fuddled prey. Even we don't know how to address all this shit.
I know. Today I woke up and they're complaining that James Earl Jones, a black man, played Darth Vader, a white man, and it came to the wake of several actresses quitting roles, which just were two years ago, were cast two years ago, Kristen Bell and Jenny Slate, great actresses, are playing biracial characters. And they quit and said, let's hire someone who is actually biracial or make way for a person of color. And literally the first thing, I don't know what else to say, but the racist people went on about James Earl Jones, which was cast 40 years ago.
And let me just be clear, for people who aren't tech-type people, Darth Vader is like a machine, has become not a man anymore. He's all a machine. And it's, I don't know what they're going to do when they find out that George Lucas is married to an African-American woman. But it's just an astonishing array of pushback all over the place, putting up Confederate, putting back Confederate statues.
It's crazy. It just seems like insane at this point, but I don't know Scott, I don't know if you have anything to say about this, or should have anything to say about it, but it's really just Star Wars. I believe when Darth Vader had his mask taken off at the end when he was dying, he then was a Caucasian actor, I think. And by the way, every white man in the world, dreams of having James Earl Jones are working for him and do their voice.
I mean, that's, yeah, the two are not analogous. I thought what was so interesting about that was it kind of highlighted, you know, it gets really did one of the cores, the economic apartheid that's taken place here where Latina and Black families are household, have about $30,000 in average wealth, white families, about $160,000. And it was really interesting that when you think about Hollywood, these little, I don't even call them little, but these, this progress, this slow creeping progress, it's always there, this insidious, that creates this economic apartheid, that these biracial characters, they end up giving the work. And I bet it's great work.
I bet they make $10,500. And that episode goes to two white actresses, right? It kind of sums up a lot of the problem here. Well, one of the things that's interesting, I mean, you know, it's throughout Hollywood, this sort of, Hollywood has been dozens of articles written about this, which is really interesting.
And nobody's done anything, which is, which I think this moment is a really interesting moment because even though I've read, not just people of color, trans people, trans people of trans characters, et cetera, white people of Asian people, it's really, nothing much happens. There's a hallelu and then everything goes back to the same thing. And I think in this moment, even the actors are like, this is just, the way the system is set up as ridiculous. It's interesting.
We'll see where it goes, we'll see where it goes in terms of the things. But the pushback to me is really the most ridiculous part of the entire equation, is that we're trying to have a cogent substantive discussion about these issues and make actual changes. And then it doesn't change. Anyway, I think any studio that does not get behind us is, as you said, is like, they're not thinking 10 years ahead, which is what you have to be doing right now.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, the pushback is what really disturbs me the most, I think of all the things, but maybe there's so many things to be disturbed by at this moment. There's, there's, I did an online class earlier in the week and some of the students brought up what I think is a really important point. And that is oftentimes in the heat of the moment, when things are so raw, there's, there's more outrage and there's more anger than there is what I call data-driven evidence-based discourse. And if you don't at some point move to an evidence-based data-driven discourse, you're not going to bring along enough people across the middle and even the other side of the aisle, which you need for landmark change or tectonic shifts.
And I said, I, I absolutely get that, but I would air on the side, if you just look at historically, if you want to be on the right side of a, of a stock trade, you want to be on the right side of a trend. If you look at all what you would call these progressive movements, whether it was protesting against the Vietnam War, you know, marching for fair housing, marching for civil rights, people who march, you know, or I would call these progressive movements, they're usually on the right side of history looking back, you know, like Anita, Anita Brian and George Wallace, it's usually their comments on age well. So as it relates to kind of progressive movements, yeah, we need to have that evidence-based argument. We need to be thoughtful about about ensuring that everyone feels that they're bought into this, this movement.
But if you just wanted to say, all right, how would you play this? You know, you look back and you think, aren't you? Don't you wish you were the straight guy that supported, that was more supportive of gay marriage, right? Obama didn't support it in this first administration.
The Clinton supported. Don't you wish you were that guy who surprised? Is there her? President Gavin News, exactly.
But don't you wish you were that guy. And you know what it's pretty easy? It's pretty easy to predict. You know where this is going.
We know which direction the world is going to be. Well, let me interject then. Then these boycott Facebook campaigns, another reaction to it, now powered by groups, including the NAACP and the Anti-Defamation League, it's gaining steam. Those groups are pushing Facebook to stop spreading hate speech, for businesses to stop profiting off of it.
Magnolia Pictures, Ben and Jerry's, Eddie Bauer joined REI, Patagonian, others to stop advertising on Facebook in July, just in July. I know we talked about that just this is not the month to do it. But in that vein, even if it's just a momentary thing, what's happening? This has never happened before in Facebook, which, you know, there was one quote where one of the advertisers, of course, without naming themselves, said, I hate this company, but I have to use it.
It was really the most astonishing brand statement that I had seen, that they don't want to advertise on it. So how do you play that? You do that sort of symbolic thing by doing that? Or what do you make of this growing distaste with advertising on Facebook?
I don't know if it'll stick, but it's an interesting trend. So first and foremost, quick trivia. One of those companies you mentioned that is boycotting Facebook, I served on the board of 15 years ago. Which one was it, Kara?
I don't know. For a free lunch, outdoor lunch, with something. I don't know. I don't know.
Tell me. Well, guess, the only name, four or five. REI. That was on the board of $1.
Anyway, the boycott of Facebook by these companies is similar to the League of Nations, 80% of CMOs, and all organic house cleansers. It's a nice idea and it's cute, but it's totally ineffective. And that is, if you think about Facebook, if you think about the tensile strength of Facebook's business, Fox News loses seven advertisers from the Laura Ingraham Show, and it has a real impact on them. Because I would bet 200, they're top, not even that, probably the top 100 advertisers are 80 to 90% of the revenue.
Facebook has 8 million advertisers. And the largest 100 only account for about 24%. It's, Facebook is really a miracle of small business. So one, it will have almost no economic impact.
It has a symbolic impact. But if you look at the companies doing this, it's more of a, it's more showed in substance because they don't have large marketing budgets and quarter their brand are progressive values. So this in itself is a bit of a marketing play for them. And the problem with Facebook and the recognition, this is almost, to a certain extent, strategically good for Facebook, because they give some people a chance to yell.
They do a conference call and it creates the illusion that there's progress and Facebook will pretend to learn from it. But this is like saying, okay, I'm against emissions. Coal is the dirtiest energy. I live in Florida.
That's it. I'm not turning on my lights. Facebook is a monopoly. If you wear a small business, you really have no choice.
There's a certain huge swath of the economy that has no choice but to be on both Google and Facebook. They have a stranglehold on top of the following marketing. So there's no good to this. There's no good to this.
It can't gain momentum. Well, I think it brings attention. I think it makes us feel good. But I actually think it might even be bad for us because it gives us the impression that something is happening.
It's not. These guys are the pimple on the pimple on the elephant that's in a different universe on a nat that gets smacked against a windshield of 7,999,000 other advertisers. And here's who just said, you know, that's the plot board. All right.
So I want to get to their big story. And I want to mention one other one. But what do you do? Nothing.
It's got to be users, something using it or breaking it up. What you do is you elect Biden who funds a DOJ and the FTC and they go after Facebook. I mean, at this point, Facebook is more likely to break up the government than the government is to break up Facebook. Especially Facebook is decided that the government.
So you stole my thunder. I was going to credit them. They're going to break up the government because of their monopoly control, cycling innovation over government like Facebook. I thought that was genius.
All right. Well, speaking of government, it did hit that. Trump will suspend the H1B visa. There's huge implications for Silicon Valley who rely on it in other companies.
I mentioned it in my Twitter feed. And boy, did I get a debate going about whether it's a good program or a bad program, whether it troubles right to do it or not. And we're going to talk about that on Monday. But it's a very big story.
It's an idea. What's our effort right on this? Well, I'll bring them on Monday. That it helps the companies and not the workers, and that they're stuck in these jobs.
They can't leave. They can't move. And then it puts people out of work, too. And they don't spend the money training Americans.
It's interesting. It was really raged on my one question. I was surprised by the reaction. On both sides, it was interesting.
It was interesting debate. It wasn't even both. It was like 10 sides of this whole thing. What it needs to be is reformed is what I have to read.
And so we'll try to have a more nuanced conversation about visas on Tuesday's show. Well, Andrew Noye, Satya Nadella, the CEO of MasterCard, and Adobe, who created tens or hundreds of thousands of jobs, all came over on temporary visas. This is nothing but a racist whistle call. It's as if we have decided that, OK, we're in a shooting, a non-shooting war with the Chinese, and a race for global leadership.
I mean, if you have Shaq and Kobe on the same team, they're just not going to get along. Let's assume we're not going to get along with Chinese. We've alienated our allies in Europe. And now let's think, OK, how do we really geopolitically fuck ourselves?
Let's find the emerging power, the other emerging power, India. And let's put in place a ban that disproportionately impacts them negatively. I mean, India is something like 280,000 a year, 85,000 renewed, a disproportionate number of really incredibly talented Indians who come here and educate. Yeah, and they're incredible job creators.
And that's like, OK, who else can we alienate just to ensure that we lose our position as a global power? It's as if we strategically said, how can we play into the Chinese and Russian hands? It's just not as if it's not as big as it is. It's just really fucking stupid.
I agree. But there is a lot to it that really does hinder the workers and does benefit the companies necessarily. So we'll talk about that. That's called capitalism.
I know. But we're going to have an actual nuanced discussion about this. It's an interesting issue. Oh, that's a progressive thing.
Sorry about that. OK, but let's swear. We're moving on. Let's the story go.
I am moving on. I am moving on, as you always say, about me. Scotiab nuance. OK, let's get into big stories.
Let's talk about swear. The Mobile Payments Company, headed by Jack Doers, who's the best friend, hasn't had an easy COVID-19 ride and recent policy changes. Pits them against their own merchants. For years, they've been popular with brick and mortar stores, which means as the stores close down, drink corn teams, they've been hit harder.
Then competitors like PayPal and Stripe, they typically make money by charging 2% every time a transaction occurs. In Square's most recent shareholder that reported a $106 million loss for the quarter. This is a company that was doing rather well. Now, small businesses that use the app to process credit card payments are saying the company is withholding 20% to 30% of these transactions for months.
These small business entrepreneurs say they were little warning before the move was made. And the company claims it was made to protect against risky transactions. Over the last month, oh, that was in business owners and signed a petition to ask me Square to end this policy. I mean, I was talking to someone there and they were like, this is not good.
This is a company with a lot of really innovation and doing well. And COVID's, I hadn't even thought about Square getting hit so hard. But what do you think about this idea? One merchant told the Times that it told about $3,000 and he couldn't pay his mortgage.
What, this is not a good look for Jack Dorsey. Yeah, so back to me in 2007, I was on the board of Red Envelope. My company, I co-founded Red Envelope. I remember it.
I remember it. I remember it. Thank you for that. Arade Fortune Cookies.
That was you ordering all those all the time, right? Okay. Well, I'll allow it. Arade Fortune Cookies.
Anyway, so 2007, the dirty secret of retail, especially retail, is we lose money for about 47 weeks a year and then you make a bunch of money in the five weeks between Thanksgiving and New Year's Week. And you have to finance all that inventory. And we, finance all our inventory, it ends up on a cargo ship, stuck eight miles off of the Long Beach harbor. There's a longshoreman strike in Long Beach.
We need to go get more capital about new inventory in Wells Fargo. Some analysts at Wells Fargo saw the credit crisis coming and saw the credit crisis coming and pulled our line of credit. And literally seven weeks later, we were Chapter 11. We went from the company that was fairly healthy to Chapter 11 because our credit line had pulled.
So this gets, let's be clear. When you're supplying your credit or people buy your products and then the credit card company holds those fees because they perceive you as a credit risk or some algorithm has deemed you a risk and is holding the capital for longer, it can devastate the business. But at the end of the day, there's two sides of the trade and the retailers and the merchants can go to another payments platform. I think it's a pretty competitive environment.
I don't think anyone has a monopoly like Stranglehold on it, unlike Facebook, Apple, Amazon, and Google. So this is the machinery of commerce. And I think those merchants can go find someone else. I don't know.
I think the bigger issue here, the bigger story, Cara. And again, I want to make the nuanced argument. I want to make the nuanced argument here. Cara.
Okay. All of a sudden, didn't remind you when all of a sudden in the press, where has mostly stayed out of the press, except for the stock price, didn't also remind you like, what the fuck? Jack Dorsey is the CEO there too. So he's in the midst of an emergency, probably working 18 hours a day trying to put out this, this dumpster fire.
Oh, but what happens if there's a dumpster fire at Twitter, which happens every 36 hours? For me, this was more highlighting just how ridiculous it is that the boards, that the boards of swear and Twitter tolerate a part-time CEO. I think that's the biggest story. He's got a lot on his plate, but you think you're going to have an...
First of all, you're right, they're going to lose business, and they've worked really hard to get in those stores. And there are a lot of stores, let me just say. But Apple Pay has certainly made inroads, you know, all the different versions of this is something. But all I know is every time I talk to a merchant, they hate all of them, of course.
And even Square. Yeah, a lot of small merchants, especially like a cab driver, I'm thinking, people that have them do not have the money to have it withheld. They just don't. They just simply don't.
And their businesses drop so drastically. And so I think there's a lot of track and attention. Regulators, I think this is just the kind of story. They're hurting small businesses.
And it's not good. You're right, Jack, not having another job. And he's very... Twitter's got a lot going on.
He's going to call more attention to it. And I think what was good for Jack was that Square was sort of working on all cylinders. And that sort of took the pressure off of the fact that he had two jobs. But in this case, Square, just like a lot of businesses, like Airbnb and some others.
By the way, Airbnb is seeing a lot of recovery. You're not going to see recovery because stores were starting to open up. But it's going to be in places. But they're also starting to close again as COVID really rages in certain states.
So it's going to be... It's going to put a lot of pressure on Jack doors. Although I still don't think anyone's going to do anything about it either. But that's my feeling.
I don't know. Yeah, as long as it's a Square stock, I mean, it's such an incredible performer. 90% of his wealth is from his equity stake in Square. What's interesting, are you just mentioned Airbnb just a quick data point?
I've been trying to find shares in Airbnb. I think Airbnb is going to be... I think it's a juggernaut. I think it's going to come back stronger, leaner, tighter, more profitable, and returns to not only pre-COVID levels, but benefit from the fact that you're going to decide to try and monetize these assets.
They're dwelling and there'll be more demand because more and more companies will want to save money. But anyways, I think it's going to do really well. When I was first looking for shares in the private market on these secondary exchanges about three weeks ago, the shares were priced at 65 bucks. The latest trade, and I didn't buy any.
The latest trade is at $100. So that surge or that recovery has already been priced into a 50% gain in Airbnb secondary shares in the private market. So the markets agree with you that Airbnb is coming back. Yeah, I mean, it is.
It's the numbers right. I was actually searching for an Airbnb the other day, which is interesting. I haven't done that in a while. My mom, I'm trying to like escape from Florida, essentially.
I'm trying to get her out of there and like wash her gown with a hose before she comes and that was, I don't know what to say. She's been out a lot in Florida. And like, she's like, our area doesn't have any. I'm like, it's up 43-7 versus 400-300% or something in her area.
She doesn't look at statistics in any way. Yeah, it's a force. And I was going to park her at an Airbnb for two weeks and like throw food through the door, essentially. But it's an interesting...
That was my own supervisor. He was near my house. Let's go Chinese. I'm lucky.
I think that's racist. But anyways, the Chinese government isn't the fact. I mean, shit fires up in Beijing. They lock that shit down.
No, I know. But they're not. In any case, it decides your tasteless joke. It'll be an interesting time for Jack Dorsey.
I think there's so much going on. Boards will do nothing. But it is certainly a moment for this company, which was... They do have a very strong executive bench.
Let's be clear. That company's got a lot of... Square. Executives.
Yeah, a lot of them are women. A lot of the women are running away a lot of that. Jackie Reese's. There's a whole bunch of them there.
And so it's an interesting company. We'll see. Anyway, Scott, we're going to take a quick break. We'll come back.
I'm Maria Sharapova, and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week, I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Follow Pretty Tough wherever you get your podcasts.
So we are 250 years into this American experiment, and I'm saying it's going OK. I give us like a C plus. There is no perfect past. But there is also no exclusively negative past because humans are going to human.
That's what we do. I think the story of America is the struggle of people who have not been included in the promise of America to expand those principles to include more people. What's going to determine the next 250 years of America? And how do we write a new social contract that can give us the democracy we deserve?
OK, so I'm just going to be a jerk here because I'm a historian. So we have to have a prologue explaining, you know, we the people. OK. You know, I just don't remember it from Schoolhouse Rock.
We the people that don't even form a more for you, and I established us as what is it? I'm sure it's a domestic tranquility. So you're talking about a financial document. So I'm building a document that will protect American democracy.
That's this week on America, actually. OK, Scott, we're back. Let's talk about sexual assault allegations in the gaming industry. This week dozens of women have come forward on social media to talk about sexism, assault, and harassment in the gaming industry.
Nothing new. This is happening. We have seen this show before. The outpouring of these Twitch streamers who broadcast their games on the platform for money, the fascinating business, has made hashtag Twitch Blackout trend over the past week.
They're calling for a blackout because they think that the streaming site can do more to recognize victims of sexual and racial abuse in response to CEO Emmett Shears, that the company would take actions which may include banning and removing partnership or removing people from promotional opportunities and activations that would be of concerns based on credible accusations and their historical behavior on Twitch. But people on Twitter quickly came out to voice their concerns over Twitch's continual lack of action accountability. I would agree with them. This is this is this is plain sight.
Of course, we we we had the gamer game issue. This is not something fresh and new that these people should be surprised is happening in the gaming industry. If you remember, gamer game back in 2014. What do you think?
What do you think they will again do anything to change things? I mean, you know, something I don't know. I know so little about the gaming industry. I see this is just part of, you know, one cell and a much bigger cancer.
And that is for some reason distance reduces our empathy and that is when I'm still anthropic with the poor that live 2,000 miles away versus 1,000 versus our neighborhood, which sort of philosophically makes no sense. And when you can hide behind a game handle or a game set or a fake Twitter account, you just turn into a different human being. And these platforms have hid behind this notion that they're not responsible for this behavior when all of them are. And so we're starting to see some progress, I think, across the bigger platforms.
And what's clear with this is that the Twitch platform is guilty of the same thing. It's the temptation to put your hands over your eyes and ears and let bad behavior and what sounds like really dangerous behavior just run unfettered, permeates or infects all of these platforms. And again, it just comes back to the same thing, the gross ideology of dollar ignoring damage to commonwealth or damage to individuals in terms of, in this case, harassment. The amount of harassment online is crazy from all kinds of parties to another.
Well, gaming has been, you know, the particular, what happened in gamer game was just, you know, I could go into it. Can you tell me about that? Can you give us some of your gamer game? Yeah, it was a really complex issue.
It started off as a sort of a very fake attack on a prominent woman gamer who was allegedly sleeping with a journalist to get better stories. It was not true, but it created, let me quote the Guardian here, an online hate storm that silenced harassed and dox progressive figures in the gaming industry. Largely women is also a protest about perceived ethical failure in games journalism, but that is not what is about it, degenerated into a misogynistic attack on women in the industry. And this is the, you know, this is the exact same thing.
And there's all these amazing women who tried to stand up, but they got really terrified and threatened. And in this case, this is sort of a different version of sexual harassment by all these various people, including people who, there's so much money to be made, just like it is in, you know, I'm checking in Tony Hawk and skateboarding. These Twitch gamers are famous and popular and they get lots of sponsorships and misbehaved, and so misbehaved is a kind word of what's going on and behaved in certain ways. And of course, several of them, and they all have these anonymous names and these strange names and operate.
And the women are now not releasing their names either because they'll prefer to get attacked and doxed essentially. And what's amazing is that it's in plain sight, a lot of it, and some of it, of course, isn't. And it's the same old, same old, same old, and nobody, again, nobody stops them. And that is really, the astonishing thing is Twitch benefits from these famous gamers and young men, especially watching them play games and things like that.
And this is the heart of their economics of this. They love these gamers and these gamers then abuse their position. I don't quite know what they're going to do except throw them off. And when they throw them off, it's going to hit their business really hard.
Yeah, the reason to be hopeful though, not hopeful about harassment online getting better, but the reason why you might be hopeful that Amazon might take more action than some of the other platforms that have just deployed the lay-in application in these weapons of mass distraction is that the underlying cancer in all this is an ad model because this type of controversy or harassment that enrages both sides, one side excited and right as the other side, which leads to more engagement, enragement clicks, more Nissan ads, more, and then Mark Zuckerberg gets wealthier. Twitch has a subscription model. It's subscription revenues and advertising. And so the underlying business model isn't driven on rage.
There is content here. There is expertise. There is artisanship. If you can think of it that way in terms of gaming.
And I think Amazon is more likely to move aggressively against these guys because they haven't grown up with a business model that is cancerous to the core. And that is an ad driven business model. So while Twitter and Facebook are long practice in the art of ignoring, you know, ignoring hate content and rage, I don't think Amazon, I don't think Amazon's grown up with that business model. I think they're more likely to be offended by it.
Amazon media, they have a fire that guy. They have a fire that had a media group. They replaced him with a woman. But it's huge amounts of issues of sexual harassment.
Amazon media has done a fraction of the damage. I'm talking about their actual person who was running it. They had a guy running it that they had to fire. I thought it was Amazon Studios.
I thought that was for me. I don't know what it was. You asked me to happen here. My understanding is this is a quote unquote a systemic issue on the platform.
And I think Amazon, my point is, Amazon is more likely to move, shows some actual action versus the non-action that Facebook and Twitter have become so skilled in. I think Amazon is likely to do something here as opposed to just trying to delay and obfuscate. You don't think they're going to do it. I don't think I still remember Jason Del Rey's excellent story about the management of Amazon.
It is white and it is guys and it is overlooking things. And so you just, you know, you just, I don't think everyone awful there. I don't think a lot of people try, but it's just a homogeneous culture there. And I think this doesn't happen by accident.
It happens. It's not designed, but it certainly is designed into the process. And to not am it sheer if it's not have notices, by the way, is just come on. It's unbelievable.
Actually, it's just a, and then be, you know, shocked and I shall do something about it. Why didn't they do it before? It's the same thing. Why didn't they do it before?
Why did the ancient wine have a brand continue? We didn't know it was still there, but it was. Like, why suddenly? I just think they won't do it.
I think they will clean it up, but they should have before. And I guess you can't go back in time, but certainly as this morning I'm glad these women are really white. If we could turn back time, Tara. Oh, my God.
If we could turn back time. Oh, my God. If I had your hair, I'd go down to my waist. I'd be so fabulous.
I'd go down to my waist. I'd wear, I'd wear pouty dresses. I'd wear monolibonic shoes. Listen, we're going to go to a listener quest, shall we?
Air harassment. I'd like to say, please play the tape. Please play the tape. You've got mail.
Hey, Scott and Tara, Donovan from Los Angeles here. Apple and Google put out a big press release in April saying that in May, they'll be releasing contact tracing API with an app to follow. The tech has only been picked up by three states so far due to the decentralization of the data. How can these giants integrate privacy but also protect public health?
Thanks. Yeah, I read these apps aren't getting any take up. What do you think? I think that people have done contact tracing for lots of hundreds of years kind of thing and they've done it.
They did it in 1918. You know, New York hired its people on the ground getting information. It's very hard. There was a great story in the times about this about how hard it is to get this contact tracing information.
I don't think people are going to input it in these apps. I know Pinterest, Pinterest, it was working on one where people talk about their health. I just don't think people I think you have to go follow people like detectives. And that's what they do.
They hire hundreds of people. And even then it's incredibly hard to do it because one Americans apparently, the Germans cooperate, other countries cooperate, Americans don't seem to want to cooperate. We're exceptional at not cooperating. So I don't think that it's a good idea.
In concept, especially privacy is protected. But in general, I think technology is not the solution here necessarily except when it comes to crunching the numbers later or doing AI. And I think you especially as Trump is scaling down federal funding and testing and contact tracing. I just don't think necessarily that the tech giants help that much.
And it also raises all kinds of issues about their data. I do think people, states, are going to have to do this themselves because the federal government has abrogated its role completely. So I don't know. What do you think?
Well, I think you're right. Tracing is still one of those things that can't be outsourced to technology. The technology can be a tool. But at the end of the day, it's got to be an innovative, high EQ person that has the presence to reach out to someone and say, Hi, we're here to help and sit down with them and really ask them the right questions to try and understand who they've been in contact with.
And we have 2,500 tracers in the United States, mostly focused on foodborne illnesses and STDs. And there's an opportunity, and we've talked about this before, to take all these out of our kids and maybe 500,000 of the 11 million students that aren't going to be returning to college campuses in September one as we figure out. We've been deluding ourselves about opening again. But that's another story and turn them into a Corona core of tracers.
And it could be really powerful. Tracing is kind of the, you know, if I response to the virus, which is the worst in the world at this point, the weakest of weakest links right now, I would argue was tracing. And to just assume that like everything else, we're going to figure this out in point, oh, five seconds, if Google is involved, you're right. It's feed on the street.
It's boots on the ground. And we need an army of tracers. What is interesting is there are some really hopeful building, received bipartisan sponsorship around social service or public service that potentially could evolve something like core of tracers. But if we had more competent, more creative governments, if we hadn't totally gutted the coffers of our local health administrations, we would be in a position to rally.
Maybe we still are an army of hundreds of thousands of young people who aren't immune, but are largely are less damaged by this virus to begin the mother of all tracing using handheld technologies. But to assume you got to have the hands to hold these technologies. And that's what I was agreeing. I mean, I think inputting and things like that, but you do need to see people with iPads or things like that.
That's how technology be used rather than paper. I just like it seems like it's not technology does not solve whole problems. And you're right. This is something that is detective work.
And sometimes the network is DNA. Sometimes it's, you know, a lot of stuff has been solved through technology. But at the same time, there's nothing like a good detective or sometimes there's bad. There's a lot of it.
Sometimes it's just, you know, a lot of it is a lot of it is just empathy. If I know someone's been exposed and they have to get, they have to leave their house because their kids don't have childcare to potentially affect other people. And you figure out a way that individual, no amount of processing power. I don't care if the singularity or AI can manage the nuance of someone who sees something is going on in this household.
How can we help such that you don't go out and in fact, dozens of other people and we get R less than one. So they're not only tracing. They're really about suppressing the R. I think this is an enormous opportunity for us to try and figure out a way to rally some of the millions of people who are all of a sudden out work and give them a sense of pride and agency in something greater than themselves.
Sand shoulder shoulder without a young people and serve in America. I think it's a huge opportunity. I think tracing could be something really interesting. Yeah.
So am I going to have to send my son to do tracing? He's coming to NYU School. He's coming for you. In any case, I think it's an interesting question.
I think the issue is the federal government not stepping up here. And that the states, as the states as a wax and wane in terms of the numbers and it's going to continue all through the fall, whether we can bring the data together. And I think that's where tech companies can really help and lend their resources is that there's data is all over the place. And they certainly have the capabilities of marrying it in some way.
There's all kinds of innovative ideas they could bring to get the data and get the proper data so officials and states and localities can make better decisions. But I think I would be nervous if I was a state or local thing, especially without support of the federal government to have to then try to vet a Google or Apple app, even if they work. I think a lot of people's experience is smart to put the brakes on it. In any case, all right, Scott, one more quick break.
We'll be back for predictions. This week on Networking Shell, I'm joined by Pencenatra, the meme king with over $15 million across Penc's good news, influencers in the wild and his personal account. The tank is breaking down what the meme economy really is, how much a single sponsored post pays, why major brands are throwing serious money at jokes, and how mean culture, think preparation age, starter packs, and a perfectly timed screenshot is actually reshaping how we think about money and value. Get ready for a conversation that'll change the way you scroll, make you rethink what going viral is really worth and prove that sometimes the most serious money moves are wrapped in the silliest of jokes.
Listen, wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com slash your rich BFF. All right, Scott, we're back. I don't know what work. I don't have a prediction, except that the number of COVID cases rising is, you know, we're going to have to really start focusing back on that again is really a disturbing trend, obviously a victim of opening up too soon and opening up stupidly.
So talk to me about what you think is going to happen, not necessarily COVID, you can predict anything you want, but I'd love to understand what you think, you know, what companies do now with the opening and closing and opening and closing of our businesses. It's really, it's really interesting. It's just so, it's just so unusual that we have a narrative and the narrative went something like this, you know, a tolerable number of deaths, some tragedy, it would kind of disappear because we'd like to think it's summer 11, the heat, the beach, the virus is going to give us a break because it's compassionate and worried about our summer plans. There'd be somewhat of a relapse in the fall by the time we had a vaccine and then boom, we're back to normal and it's clear the virus and get a memo.
We're not going to need a relapse because we have a forest fire. It's just continuing. It's just a continuing to grow. And my prediction leads into this notion of American exceptionalism and ignorance kind of dethroning us or depositing as the global superpower.
And I was reading this article about how the Suiz Canal, essentially the British, the Israelis and the French invaded the western part of the Suiz Canal, I think 54, and the failure of it and to try and also on the Egyptian present, the time and the failure of it sort of laid bare just how weak this global superpower Britain had become. And I think in retrospect, we're going to look at COVID-19, whether it's our inability to manufacture cotton tip swabs. If you think about this just going out again this theme 10 years forward, China was on trajectory to seize the mantle of global leadership. It's just happening in weeks now instead of a decade.
Our acquiescing and China seizing the global mantle of a ton. I wonder if this is that moment and China's office heels onto their toes and made infrastructure investments. They've been more aggressive even though the virus started there. Corruption is kind of their call sign in terms of their government and their data, but they are in fact getting off their heels onto their toes.
They're funding the World Health Organization. They're participating in a more global dialogue. They said if they come up with a vaccine, they're going to distribute it for free. They're going to be able to go to Europe.
It's just that story. You're not supposed to go to New York if you're from Florida. No, I know but Europe doesn't want us. We're grouped in with a bunch of countries.
Who wants us now? I wonder if this is our Suez Canal and that is when we look back. If in fact China does grab the baton and you know what Britain or the US, Eisenhower didn't want Britain to go into the canal and you know he threatened to do. If they didn't get out, he threatened to sell their bonds, which he had purchased as they were racking up deficits.
Imagine what China could do if they threatened to sell our bonds. What would happen to our interest rates or what happened to our interest rate expense, which is now greater than how much we spend on defense at record low interest rates. They are now. They now have us by the balls because they have all our debt.
You could see something very similar play out to what happened in 54. Yeah. That's a bad one. You're reaching back in history.
I can't believe this. I don't know how we got to the US out. It's the out of the talking. But I think you're right.
I think that's really good. I think it does have. I think I'm really looking forward to businesses reacting. You saw Disney workers are worried about opening up Disney World.
It has so many iterations. Meanwhile, James Earl Jones. Honestly, there's something deeply wrong at the heart of this. It's not just Donald Trump.
That's the problem. That's a lot of stuff. That's a lot of stuff. When you have an administration setting off hydrogen bonds, you don't have time for the dumpster far.
It's just H1B visa thing is so stupid. It's such a tragedy for us. If so many of us come, my parents came over on this new ship and America loved what is our secret sauce? If you had a company and that company just magically attracted the best and brightest from all four corners of the earth, it didn't help but be successful.
That's America. The best and brightest globally always wanted to get to America. That's our secret sauce. We decided let's take the secret sauce and make America allergic to it through a bunch of racist tropes.
This is our superpower. It's like we decided we're Superman and we're just going to decide we don't want to fly. Remember that scene when he decided he didn't want to super power? He got to shoot the oven at a truck stop.
That's what's happening now. Why on earth would we give up our superpower, which is embracing the talented people in the world and opening our arms to immigrants? It just makes no sense, Cara. Let's go back to being Superman.
Getting back to Darth Vader is because the Death Star is running things but we'll see how that goes. They use that analogy online. Brad Parscale used that analogy online. That's a good idea.
That's what you get to do. At the end of that movie he went back and beat up the guy. He pushed him down. Christopher Reed passed out.
I thought I was incredible. May I say a small person? I went to school with him. I went to high school.
Did you really? Where's the Robin William and roommate? He was the star in the high school. All the high school productions.
He was a lovely guy. He was a star in the high school. He was the star of the high school plays. Let's hope we have more Christopher Reed and less Darth Vader.
Anyway, Scott, I really appreciate it. What are you doing this weekend? I am sheltering in place. I came back to New York.
I basically went to my loft in Soho and not a lot of go anywhere. You're weak. I can go back to it. I'm lucky up there with you.
You know what's inspiring? In Florida, we have record number of cases. I think 5,000. No one's wearing a mask.
You come to New York. They've really handled it. I would argue that they've handled it well. I don't want to say handle it well, but I think they're trying to make a great deal of citizenship.
No, I handle it well. I'll say that. I think we're in the low hundreds of cases now. Everyone on the street is wearing a mask.
It's like the citizenship of Manhattan. Same thing in Vermont. Let me just tell you. It's nice to see.
I'm not going to go far. You're going to stay two weeks, my friend. You better not move from that. Put a sensor on you or something.
I have to put contact trees on you. In any case, don't forget if there's a story in the news and you're curious about what you want to hear about or email us at pivot.boxmedia.com to be featured on the show. Scott, I will talk to you Monday. I'm leaving Vermont.
I'm going back to under DC. We're a lot better internet access. In any case, read us out. Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Sonones.
Our sound engineer is Fernando Fineté. Eric Anderson is a pivot executive producer. Thanks to Drew Burrows and also to Matt and Rebecca today helping with my technology as I am in quarantine or self-isolation. Make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts or through an Android user check us out on Spotify or frankly wherever you listen to podcast.
If you'd like to show please recommend it to a friend. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Box Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Luke, I am your father.
I know we're good. We're good.