The Case of LaLurie

Hi, I'm Holly and I'm Hailey. Welcome to Mountain Mysteries Tales from Appalachia. Welcome back. Welcome back.

I'm fired up. She's fired up. I am fired up. She is.

I am fired up. I'm not that enraged. Okay. I'm okay.

I'm okay. I'm not stable, but I'm all right. Are any of us, you know? Right.

No, I was telling Hailey that I'm selling some stuff on Facebook marketplace, and I hate number one that people who are like, is this still available? If it's on there, it's available. If it's not there, it's not available. And then the people who are like, okay, we can meet.

And they either ghost you or the people who are like, yeah, I could maybe meet you there. And you're like, okay, so are we good? Are we good? Are we good?

Yes, no, maybe. And then they never respond again. And you're like, ah, so it is a real pain in the butt. I've decided.

Yeah. When it works great, it works great. And it's wonderful. And there are a lot of, you know, great people out there who are who don't ghost you and aren't, you know, annoying.

Well, speaking of ghosts, my new office that I work in is haunted. That's a great segue. I thought it might be. So haunted with like who?

I don't know. But so the building that I'm in on campus is the, there's actually a plaque outside the building that says it's the second oldest building on campus. I was waiting for you to say it was a plaque that said it's the second most haunted building on campus. I mean, it probably is.

It could be. But it is the second oldest building on campus. All the bricks are handmade. Like, I thought it was made of stone.

Is it brick? Is it brick? There's a stone building Okay. But I'm in a brick building.

So what's also been super fun is that air conditioner is broken just upstairs. So the whole time I've been moving in and painting and stuff, it's been like 85 degrees up there. It's been a lot. Are they fixing it?

Yes. The compressor has been ordered. So I have been told. Oh my god.

Allegedly. That sounds like hell. It truly feels like hell. Yes.

But did you paint the walls red? No, they're actually green. Oh, they're like a pretty evergreen fog by sure. That's not evergreen fog.

I remember when I was just like blue fig or no dam that Haley got a the one down here is called eucalyptus. Oh, it's quite delightful. Yeah, the one I have is a little bit bluer than this. Oh, okay.

Yeah, but still a green. I don't know. Anyway, so I like that. Pain in the office.

What I learned though is it's much cooler in there later in the day. So I would go after like everybody else had left for the day. And was there like, you know, five six o'clock in the evening. So what I'm hearing you say is you chose not to work.

No, I would be later in the evening before I was even contracted to start working. Okay. She's super defensive. She's gonna hurt me.

I feel like. So yeah, but I would go and you know later in the day. So I five or six o'clock. It was so light outside because it's summer and I would be up there and I'd have my fans going.

That facility is so lovingly brought me because blowing around higher is so fun. So I had my fans going and I kept hearing like every time I was up there, I kept hearing somebody like walk up the stairs and I'm not the only one on that floor. Like during the year, they'll be I think it's me and like psychology. Got your all on the same floor.

And then below us is sociology and political science, I think are below. So I just figured it was somebody coming up to one of the psych offices or whatever. Now I'm the only one in my little like cutting hole over there. So I would I mean, my door was up and so I would just like keep poking my head out.

Nobody ever came in the building. Here's the thing. Ghost two need mental health support. And they do.

I mean, it doesn't just end like the soul continues. Yeah, you can have a tortured soul that you need support with. And that's what they were looking for. So had you instead of being like, Oh, you know, I mean, I just proceeded on with my pain.

No, in my brain, you were scared. Instead invite them in, give them a paintbrush, you know, moving the body really does help with mental health. So invite them in, they may do a beautiful job. They might.

They like. They're still there. I assume. Oh, they're they go.

No, um, and there was a few times that I heard people walking around that I was really hoping it was facilities coming to to fix their it was not them. I'll visit you one day. It's the ghost. I'll just not hunt your name.

I haven't named it yet. You know what? Give it time. It'll something will feel right.

Feel it out. Your name will come to you. Maybe it'll whisper. Hey, there, deliver.

What's it like as a ghost? I don't know. Okay. I it's late.

Yeah, it is. So we're gonna talk about we're going back to my new favorite city in New Orleans this week. What a cheat. I know.

Not an apple edge. I just heard both of these stories while I was there. And I was like, we have to talk about them on the podcast. So I went on a ghost tour while I was there.

And you didn't face time me. I should have. We're gonna go to her with this lovely guy. Her name was Mia.

She was delightful. So she was telling us like all these stories and she told us a story, took us to where the house used to be and where it's been like rebuilt of the people we're gonna talk about in the story. So I've seen the actual location, which I think is pretty cool. Did you feel something?

Like, do you feel some kind of way? No, I touched the building. Yeah. Because it's a private residence now.

Okay. Like as we talk about it, we touched it and I did we took you down. We crossed the street and our guide went across the street. She's like, I won't go to your building.

Do you think she has to do a little that to like add to the? I don't know. I mean, because she was pretty like, freaked out by it. Like I could tell it's uncomfortable.

Oh yeah, she's totally seen some shit. But she was like, I'm not going over there. And I was like, well, I'm gonna go. So I went and then I like touched the building.

So I touched this place, which is really creepy. Okay. So let's talk about it. And I just touched you.

So now I you have have touched the place. Oh my gosh, it's amazing. So we're gonna take it on back to the 1700s. Oh my goodness.

Way back. Yeah, it's not expecting. Okay. So we are talking about the Lala Rehouse or the Lala Re mansion.

Okay. So Marie Delphine McCarty was born in New Orleans on March 19, 1787. It was one of five children. Her father was Louise, something crazy French McCarty.

And they had moved the family to New Orleans from Ireland around 1730. Okay. So they originally from Ireland moved to New Orleans during the French colonial period. So when the French are in control of like that part of the United of what we know is the United States now.

So a lot of French influence in New Orleans still today. So her mother was Marie Lott Ereville, also known as the widow leg comte. I don't speak French. As her marriage to Lewis McCarty, it was actually her second marriage.

So both of Delphine's parents were prominent in the city's European Creole community. Her uncle by marriage Esteban, Miro, was the governor of the Spanish American provinces of Louisiana and Florida from 1785 to 1791. And her cousin Augustine De McCarty was actually Mayor of New Orleans from 1815 to 1820. So this is a really well connected family.

Well connected and so diverse. So they are love it. Like really, really connected, very wealthy family. Just like us.

Just like us. So Delphine was only four years old when the Haitian Revolution started in 1791, which is something that made slaveholders in the southern United States and the Caribbean pretty nervous. So they were really afraid of resistance and rebellion among slaves. Delphine's uncle had actually been killed in 1771 by his slaves.

Good. Yeah. And the revolution inspired the local Mina conspiracy in 1791. So this is kind of the start of like what they're causing a lot of slaveholders to become even more abusive to their slaves because they're afraid of all of these uprisings and things that are happening.

So they're like, I'm going to keep you down and terrify you. Yeah. So they are becoming even more abusive. There's a lot of, you know, harsh, even more harsh punishment, controlling people based out of fear, that kind of thing.

So that's all kind of going on in the background of the story. On June 11 of 1800 at age 13, 13, she had her six baby. No. She married Don Ramon de Lopez, Anglu.

I don't, yeah. He was a high ranking Spanish royal officer. Yes. Yeah.

At the St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans, which I've seen and it's beautiful. You know what? Nothing says class like, you know, married off your barely teen daughter.

Like what the heck? Yeah. But people did this all the time. They did.

Well, and this was a big time too in New Orleans with a port city. So a lot of what was going on in New Orleans, there's a lot of piracy happening. There's a lot of sex work happening. Yeah.

Like all this kind of stuff is going on. So to like the age of adulthood back then was like 12. Well, I mean, I guess if you think about it, people were dying by 35. Yeah.

Like 40 was old. 40 was holy cow. You live that long. You're 112.

Yeah. Like 40. Right. Yeah.

So, yeah. I mean, it's still creepy. I don't love it. 100%.

It's very often and he was probably like 50 or something. Yeah. I think he was action. Yeah.

I don't know. Okay. So in 1804, after, you know, the American acquisition of what was then a French territory, so they're taking over, you know, things are changing hands kind of revolutions happening or has happened and they're doing things. Her husband, Don Ramon, had been appointed the position of Consul General for Spain in New Orleans and was called to appear at the Royal Court in Madrid.

So he's got to go back to Spain. So he's married. They've been married for like four years. He's got to go back to Spain.

So she's going with him. So they're in route to Spain. She's pregnant. He suddenly dies in Havana.

So they've made it to Havana. Okay. And he dies there. So a few days after he dies, she gives birth to her daughter Marie and they nicknamed her Porquita.

So now she's a widow, Delfain's a widow and has a newborn. So they are, she's like, I am going to Madrid. I'm going back to New Orleans, like back to my family. Like, gotta go.

Okay. So she heads on back to New Orleans. So she lives kind of the single life for about four years, which is pretty crazy at that time. Absolutely.

So in June of 1808, she's about 21 at this point. She marries Jean Blanc, who is a prominent banker, merchant lawyer and legislature. John White. So at the time of the marriage, he purchased a house at 409 Royal Street in New Orleans for the family, which later became known as the Villa Blanc.

Delfain had four children with him named Marie. Another Marie. We got another Marie. She's Marie Pauline.

We have Louise Marie. Marie Louise Jean Pierre. There's so many. John Pierre.

Wait a minute. What? Yeah. It's like what?

I don't like we have like four Marie's. Get yourself a baby book. Yeah. So we have Marie that goes by a bookita.

Then we have Marie Louise Pauline. Then we have Louise Marie Laurie. Then we have Marie Louise Jean. And then we have Jean Pierre Pauline Blanc.

I think they were just like at this point, everybody's just Marie. Was Genevieve taken or like some other beautiful French name? Oh, we got his Marie and Louise. There's like four of them.

That's everybody's middle name. Everybody's like Marie and Louise. But doesn't it get confusing when you're trying to say Marie Louise Marie is Marie. Get in here.

The other Marie Marie. There are three children named Marie. That's a problem. And then you've got one named Louise, but Marie's her middle name and then you've got John.

So that's crazy. Okay. So they had all these kids. They don't know how to name them.

So they're just maybe not just the same name over and over again. That sounds good. So her husband dies in 1816. Because he's like, I don't have any more names.

Like, no, he's all I got. That's it. That's all we got. So he checks out.

He's not dead. Okay. She killed them maybe. So she says single again for almost 10 years after this.

Remember, she's only like 31. She's 31. She was like 21 when he died. Well, no, when she married him.

So maybe she's in her mid 30s or something. So she married on June 25th, 1825. She marries her third husband who's a physician. And his name is Leonard Louise Nicholas Lollary.

Yeah. So this is where Lollary comes in. He's 15 years younger than her. Get it, girl.

So she is like, now this is what our tour guide told us. Yeah. Is that, you know, she, the way that like, so all of the money that John won't cad couldn't be passed to his wife, because women don't have rights kind of thing. So all of the money is passed to his living son, Jean Pierre, who is like an infant, who's very young when he dies when the the father dies.

Right. So it then in turn is like handled by her. So she somehow, I don't know how but like has all this money like gets all the money. And she's like, listen, I am now like, she's like the wealthiest woman in New Orleans.

She made some smart moves. She made some moves. So she's like the wealthiest person. So she's like, listen, I want to marry, you know, somebody else who is also very, very wealthy.

So she marries this position, Leonard Lollary. I did the math. She's 38, he's 23. Okay.

Yeah. So in 1831, she bought property at 1140 Royal Street, where she managed in her own name with little involvement from her husband. So the home is in her name, which is crazy. I was saying it was that wasn't even a thing.

No, I don't know how she did it. But the name is like, the house is in her name. She bought it. So in 1832, she had a two story mansion built there, complete with attached slave quarters, because that's still going on here in New Orleans.

She lived at the residence with her third husband and two of her daughters. And she maintained this kind of like elite status. She's a socialite. And New Orleans society.

Yeah. She's throwing the parties. She's like, they are like the party house. She hasn't it out.

She hasn't it out. So like everybody's coming to this house. Like people are there. It's beautiful.

They're like, doing all this stuff. She's the hostess with the most of us. She is like, that is what she does. Yeah.

So however, the marriage starts showing some signs of strain there. And on November 16th of 1832, she actually petitioned for separation from Quitt bed and board of her husband, in which she claimed that he had treated her in such a manner as to render their living together unsupportable. What do you do? Say, turn the party down.

I'm trying to sleep. Yes. I don't know. However, her son and two of the daughters by John Blanc, the previous week guy, they confirmed her like accounts.

Like he was, so it sounds like he was kind of an abusive asshole. Gotcha. Potentially. I don't know.

So, or maybe she's like, I'll give you some money if you say that new daddy. Right. Eat me. I don't know.

So because she's, I mean, we're about to get into some like pretty wild stuff here. Okay. Okay. So, you know how we talked about this really cruel treatment of slaves.

Right. What's going on? I mean, it was all cruel, but we're like exceptionally cool right now because of the fear of uprisings and things like that. So that's kind of the realm in which she's been raised in.

Okay. So these are some accounts of like things that were kind of starting to come out about celery and her treatment of these slaves. Okay. So she enslaved other human beings between 1831 and 1834.

Harriet Martyno, who wrote this in 1838, said that, you know, during her visit to New Orleans in 1836, she claimed that the enslaved people of Lollery were observed to be singularly haggard and wretched when compared to other enslaved individuals. However, at least in public appearances, Lollery was saying to me generally polite to black people and solicitous of the health of those enslaved. So like for all purposes, she's like taking care of her property. Oh dear darling, you look so haggard and then behind closed doors, you eat them.

Yeah. Yeah. There are funeral registers between 1838 and 1834 that document the deaths of 12 enslaved people at the Royal Street Mansion. Causes of deaths are not mentioned and not all of them are named, unfortunately, but the deaths do include a woman named Bonnie, who was born 1803, died 1833, so she was 30.

She was a cook in a laundress and her four children also died there. Juliet was born in 1820 and died in 1833, and she was 13. Florence, who was a 10, Jules, who was six, and the youngest, Leontine, who was four. She's murdering children.

I mean, they all died at different times, but it kind of seems that way. I also think she killed her husband. Maybe. So court record at the time, she'll that Lollery freed two captive enslaved people in 1819 and 1832.

Martina wrote that public rumors about her mistreatment of slaves at the Royal Street residence were sufficiently widespread, so much so that a local lawyer actually went to the property to remind Lollery of the laws for the upkeep of enslaved people during the visit the lawyer found no evidence to suggest wrongdoing or mistreatment. Of course not. Other than the fact they're enslaved. Yeah.

Yeah. It's okay for you to hate your slave. Just not too hard. Exactly.

Exactly. Don't leave bruises. So there's also accounts that her cruelty was really being like whispered among the New Orleans residents. It's starting to get out that they're like, she's crazy around this is kind of 1836.

They're saying that one of Lollery's neighbors saw an eight year old enslaved girl fall to her death from the roof of the mansion while trying to avoid punishment from a whip wielding Lollery. The girl's body was buried on the mansion grounds. In a 1945 account gave the child's age as 12 years old and gave her a name of Lea. They didn't have what her name was.

So they called her later riders elaborated on the case saying that Lea had been brushing Delphine's hair when she had a snag, angering Lollery to the point that she grabbed a whip and started chasing her. So according to this incident, this led to an investigation of Lollery's again in which they were found guilty of illegal cruelty and forced to forfeit nine enslaved people of the household. So they had to let them go. These nine enslaved people however were bought back by the Lollery's through an intermediary relative and that's returned to the mansion.

So they get out and then our right right right back. There's also stories that Lollery kept her cook starved and chained to the kitchen stove beating her daughters and they attempted to feed themselves or others. Okay on April 10th 18 or 4th this one thing's like really kind of this kind of everything comes out. Okay a fire breaks out in the mansion and it starts in the kitchen.

So police and fire marshals get there and they're like trying to put this fire out but they're like they realize it's a slave order so they're going and trying to make sure everybody's out of the house so they can start fighting the fire. They found a 70 year old cook chained to the stove by her ankle. So she's not able to escape the fire because she's chained to it. So they later um...

Stove and chain that's crazy. They interview her and she says um she says that she actually started the fire as a suicide attempt because she was afraid of being punished. Stating that slaves were taken to the uppermost room and they never came back. So she's like before that happens to me.

I'm just taking myself out. Like I gotta, I'm not doing this. Wow. So in a newspaper article on April 11th 1834 bystanders responding to the fire attempted to you know get into the slave orders to make sure everybody else was out but they were refused the keys.

So like while they wouldn't give the key over so they can go check. The bystanders broke down the doors to the quarters and found quote seven people more or less horribly mutilated suspended by the neck with their limbs apparently stretched and torn from one extremity to the other and quote who claimed to have been in prison there for some months. So she was just torturing these? Yeah.

Oh my god. Yeah she was full on. Torturing them. Wow.

So one of those who came into the residence was Judge Jean Carnegie who you know reported later that you know he found in the Lawlery Mansion among others a a woman wearing an iron collar. There's another an older woman who had received a deep wound to her head who was two weeks to be able to walk. He said well he questioned Lawlery's husband about those enslaved on the property. He was told that quote some people had better say at home rather than come to others houses to dictate laws and meddle with other people's businesses.

So this is a husband she separated from. Apparently they were still like on good terms because he was there at the house during the fire. So you know he's like I'm defending my wife. You know back up mind your business that's all.

Yeah. A version of the story which circulated in 1836 added that the enslaved people were completely emaciated. They showed signs of being flayed with a whip. Oh my gosh.

We're bound in restrictive postures and were spiked iron collars which kept their heads in static positions. So when this discovery comes out a mob of local citizens attacked the mansion and demolished and destroyed everything they could get their hands on. A sheriff and his officers were called to disperse the crowd but by the time the mob left the property had sustained major damage with what scarcely anything remaining but the walls. Marie's slaves were then taken to a local jail where they were available for public viewing.

That sounds typical of the time period. Yeah. Apparently up to 4,000 people had attended to view the slaves quote to convince themselves of their sufferings. So were these the ones who had been stretched and yeah okay.

Instead of like medical care let's take them to the jail and let people come by and look at them. Put them behind plexiglass and let's sell tickets. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Not great. Okay. So the Pittsfield son wrote several weeks after the evacuation of you know the slave quarters claimed that two of the enslaved people found in the mansion had died following their rescue.

It added quote, we understand that in digging the yard bodies have been disinterred and the condemned well in the grounds of the mansion have been uncovered. Others particularly that of a child were found. So bodies were thrown on as well. So these claims were repeated in an 1838 book and there was you know saying there were several bodies found here.

So Lallory's life after 1834 fire is not really super well documented. Apparently she fled New Orleans during the mob violence and went like by the waterfront to Mobile Alabama and then on to Paris. So by the time you know they were like hey we are suspicious. This is not great.

She's in Paris. She's gone. Yeah. So the original Royal Street mentioned occupied by Lallory did not survive.

The mansion located on the corner of Governor Nickle Street formerly known as Hospital Street commonly referred to as the Lallory house is not the exact same building that was inhabited by Lallory. So the house that I saw it's not the same way. It's in the same spot. It's in the same spot.

When she acquired the property in 1831 a house was already under construction and finished for Lallory. This house was burned by the mob in 1934 and remained in a ruined state for at least in their four years before it was rebuilt in 1838 and assumed the appearance it has today. So it was rebuilt and yeah but still I you can't get rid of all the bad stuff you have in there. Sure cannot.

Yeah it's pretty crazy. So there are pieces of the original structure still there but like the what you see is all rebuilt. Right. It's not the same.

Over the decades it was used as a public high school. Can you imagine going to high school there? A conservatory of music and apartment building of course a refuge for young delinquents. Obviously a bar winning okay a furniture store and then a luxury apartment building.

The furniture store is interesting. It's like thrown in there. We've got crazy crazy prices. Yeah yeah yeah.

The dwelling had a third floor and rear building added later in the 19th century and the rear building on Governor Nickle Street which had only one floor until second was added in the 20th century remodeled in the 70s. All kinds of things. Now it has shan carpet. So now it's actually three stories high.

And you know linoleum. It is a really like cool. It is a really cool looking building. Like I won't lie it was it was kind of neat.

Okay so the entrance to the building has iron grill work and the door is carved with an image of beabas in his chariot with reas of flowers and depicting garlands inside the vestibule has black and white marble curve mahogany rail staircases that run through all three stories. There are drawing rooms. There are like just all kinds of beautiful things in there. Wow.

And April of 2007 actor Nicholas Cage bought the house for three point four five million dollars. Okay. The mortgage documents were arranged in a way that his name actually never really appeared on them. Yeah because of course he's got like an LLC.

Yeah. So he's was a super weird dude. Don't say. On November 13 2009 the property which was then valued at 3.5 million was listed for auction as a result of foreclosure.

So he won pay in his bills. Well his movies weren't doing as well. It's not too great. Now it was purchased by Regents Financial Corporation for 2.3 million.

It last changed hands in 2010 when it was purchased by the current owner Michael Whalen for 2.1 million. And I actually think it was sold again so post this article from what our tour guide was saying. I think it was sold again like four years ago. I wonder too if they just can't take the you know the ghost.

Yeah I'm all both. Well and she was telling us that the person who owns it now like it's a private residence now. Like it's a quote unquote family home. She said they don't live there.

Like they don't live there full time. It's kind of one of those like if they're visiting New Orleans they'll stay there. Kind of what? If they have family that's coming once to visit New Orleans they'll stay there.

But like there's nobody like consistent really full time residence. No no no. I would like to go to like the bayou in or the the holiday in maybe a nice best western. Yeah just nope.

Nope. I'll just stay at a hotel. Well yeah and apparently that's just you know telling us it's like when the guy that owns it does stay there he will play like little tricks and stuff on people like he'll turn the lights on and put a fan in the window to make the like the curtains flutter and like he's like he's like kill that bastard. He'll put like a like he'll go up on like the top floor and like he's asking.

He is cruising for a bruise and you do not need to be doing this kind of stuff. You don't play like that. Yeah well I think he I would imagine like that he has been like hey understand what's happened here to the ghosts. Yeah like I think he's like I think they're probably cool.

I'm one of you now. Yeah I've got to prank my cousin. So yeah that's the story. There is I think American Horror Story, season something something.

There's a one based on this like really loosely based and a lot of the stories that you'll hear about this place and like her treatment where that she was like almost like experimenting on people like she was skinning people like just really horrific stuff I don't get into because of kids none of it's proven you know. But it's so odd to hear women. Oh yeah as this perpetrator versus I mean men you know still horrific things but it tends to be women. Yeah but she was doing it.

It's crazy. That is crazy. Thank you for this. You're welcome.

This imagery that I will. Sorry. Yeah that sucks. It's not great.

If you want to tell Hayley how mean she is. Please email us at mountain mysteries.appalachian at gmail.com. You can find us on Facebook at mountain mysteries tales from Appalachia Instagram mountain mysteries.appalachia and for a great time and more bonus content find us on patreon patreon.com slash mountain mysteries. Oh shoot I gotta do my job.

Hang on I forgot. I forgot. I forgot. I forgot.

I forgot. I forgot. I should do this. I should be doing this.

Get. I'm sorry I forgot. You have one job and every week you fail. I know.

Okay let's go for Ashford Kent. Oh I love it. We're going to see you. Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Oh well thank you so much for listening. Thanks. Greatly appreciated. And next time we'll be back Jack.

Well yeah that's the threat and I promise. Bye. Bye.