The Jackson Building

Hi, I'm Holly and I'm Haley. Welcome to Mountain Mysteries, Tales from Appalachia. Well, welcome back. Hello.

We are, we just had lunch. We did. Which was to like, yes. And I told Haley that, so I have a very tiny bladder and I pee a lot.

And I told her if this were a drinking game, she would be wasted on the floor. She had to take a shot for every time I went pee. I would, I would have had four shots already. I came in and was like, I gotta pee.

And then subsequently, any kind of break, I pee. I have yet to. No. I've seen your bathroom more today than you have probably a week.

But I appreciate it. I was on my way to Charlotte. I had a work thing and I was driving to Charlotte. And I just stopped in the morning four times to pee.

I left my house at 6 a.m. And normally it's about a two hour trip. It took me three hours and 20 minutes and I was late. But it was multiple reasons because I had to pee.

But also the traffic was so bad and I got caught in it. So that was rough. But on the way back, I, so I love to be in like cities and like find random stores. So years and years ago, there was a store when I was growing up called Roses.

I love a roses. So it was very common in this area. Like, you know, it was really great. There was actually one where I used to live in Virginia.

Anyway, there was one when I was at college that I used to go to all the time, but they turned that into a public. So anyway, I'm driving back and I just, I took a minute, I stopped to get something to eat and I googled, you know, this place that I was coming to. And it said there was a roses and I was like, oh, like a real roses. Oh my gosh.

And so I went there. It was amazing. Is it delightful? I spent $32.

Nice. And I got so much. I bet. I got a candle that smells like fall for $3.

Yeah. And a big candle, like not like a tiny. So if you don't know what a roses is, it is kind of like a, it's like a discount, like a dingy. Yeah.

Yeah. Like a dingy Ross. Yeah. You never know what you're going to find in the roses?

Straight out of the 80s. Yeah, usually it is not anything that's like new or trendy. No. But another way, things that you need.

Tons of things that you, yeah, they have like household stuff. It's kind of similar. I feel like to a big lot. Yes, but dingier way dingier.

Yes. The dingy version of a big lot. Yeah. Cheaper, dingier.

There's always something wrong with like the floor, like the light is coming up, lighting kind of flickers, slickers, water damage on the ceiling. It has a smell to it. There is a smell and it is magic. It is.

We make it sound so appealing, but I will go out of my way to go to a roses. Oh my gosh. Well, I was in Hoghead. Yeah.

I was like, and they had fall decor out and I so we put the fall decor in our house because my son is, he loves fall just like I do. So we've got pumpkins out, we've got lights on our mantle that are leaves that light up. You know, it's just, it's so cool. So anyway, so I was like, OMG, I went crazy.

And I got up to the cash register and I was checking out and I was like, I'm so excited to be here. And the cashier's like, all right. Nice honey. Okay.

Great. And I was like, you don't understand, this is like my childhood. Like my mom used to go like by the diapers for me here. In the 80s when it was a little more trendy and that kind of thing, like it was up to date.

It was. The thing is, is roses in the day was amazing. It was like the target. Yes, it was.

It has stayed in the 80s. It has never changed. It's never, they have never changed what they order. No, they have never changed like the style of things.

The layout is the same. Smells the same. The smell is the same. Yeah, it never changes.

And that is just part of the nostalgia. It is of the roses. There's one like a few towns over that. I'm not over that way a lot, but when I do go that way, I will be stopping the roses.

It's amazing. It is amazing. It brought me so much nostalgia. And I told the lady that I was like, my mom used to buy my diapers here.

And she I think was concerned and how excited I was. But she was like, no, I like it here too. Honey, did you know they closed the one? And she mentioned some town and I was like, I don't even know where that is.

But that's amazing. And she was like, are you not from here? Like, why would you be shopping here? And I was like, no, I'm coming back from Charlotte and I just happened to stop by here.

So yeah, I'm just like, you're crazy. She probably thought this woman is what is our new thing? Positively, the men's. Positively demented.

Yeah, from a couple episodes ago. Yeah, the I feel like I used to get like the bed in a bag from the roses. So like it would come with like a comforter and sheets and shams with always a big thing. Pillow cases, that kind of thing.

Sometimes they throw in a little pillow, like a decorative one too. Yeah, you could get a decorative pillow in one. It'd be like seven pieces in one bag. Yeah, I love.

I still get a bit of that. So I bought for my son, they had a dinosaur shower curtain for his bathroom. And it also came with the soap holder and the little toothbrush holder. Nice.

And they weren't plastic. They were actually like ceramic. Like you could find like I'm saying, there's some good things to the roses. Yes.

And I spent the shower curtain and the the accessories all together. I think it cost eight dollars or something for all of that. Yeah. I was like, heck yeah.

I got bird seed there the last time I went. Wow. It's all bad at bird seed. Yeah, it's amazing.

So you're gonna want to try and come on. You find a roses. Go for it. If you've never been to one, it is an experience.

I don't know if you've never been to one when they were in their prime and you go now how you would feel about how you would feel. But just know that it does hold a true place in our heart. And if you have exclusively shopped at Target, the roses might not be for you. This might not be for you.

If you're driving your Tahoe to the Target, yeah, roses may feel a little if you're not used to like a rundown Walmart. The roses is probably not for you. Probably not for you. If you don't actively shop at the Goodwill, the roses probably isn't for you.

Yeah. But for those of you who do and you're down and you know, do you know who you are? They're waiting for you. It's a great time.

Yes. And I hope they don't close because most of them I know. They're rare. It's hard to find.

They're so rare. And when you find that jewel, you hit it up, man. So excited. So yep.

Just know they're out there and they're amazing. Yeah. So okay. Well, that was a fun little trip.

Yeah. So we are going today to Asheville, North Carolina, talking about a place close to our heart. Nice. And we're going to be talking about the Jackson building.

Do you know this of this building? I don't think so. You don't? I don't think so.

Really? Okay. Well, I'm going to tell our audience and you about it. So our story begins in 1922 in downtown Asheville.

A real estate developer by the name of LB Jackson was commissioned to build a large structure with the goal of bringing more tourism to the area. Oh, it's this guy. It's this guy. This guy.

So I just want to say something as we are approaching leaf season. Oh my God. Please stop coming here. Our roads are ridiculous.

Actually, you know, being in Charlotte, I was comparing the traffic. Yeah. Asheville traffic is actually worse than Charlotte traffic. And here's why.

Yeah. The roads they're working on enlarging the freeway system. But for right now, it is still two lanes on each side. And it is horrific.

Like you will get stuck in traffic. Just going to the next exit. Like, and it's not stopped because oh, they're doing construction. It's not stopped because there's a wreck.

It's just stopped. Yeah. Because there's so much. So just saying if you would like to maybe go to Vermont for leaf season.

They would love to have. So please. I know. So I'm calling the we're back in like college time and I live in a college town.

And also all the students are back. Yep. And while like I love, you know, so there are students attending the school. It's great.

I'm very excited. They're here. The like inner grumpy old man inside of me is like, God, there's gonna be so much more traffic. I'm not gonna be able to find anywhere to park.

I need. Where's my handicap? They're gonna be speeding down the roads. I have children.

And it's funny because I went through it today to come visit you. And my thought was, Oh my gosh. Look at how cute they are with their little backpacks. And then I thought, I'm old enough to be each one of their mothers all the way down from, you know, the senior who is 21, 22 all the way to the freshman who is just 18.

I thought, holy crap, I could be each one of their mothers. And that was startling for me. Yeah. I went to the grocery store last night at like 10 p.m.

Yeah. Which was a wild experience for me. Why are you awake? I don't know.

It was a weird day. So I went to the grocery store and I'm going through town and I see this like group of three, you know, boys walking, not doing anything like incorrect. They're just walking down the street. And I'm like, it is so late.

Why are they out this late? Why are these children? Dangerous. Out on the street.

Your mother. No. This late. And I'm like, Oh, it's really 10 p.m.

on holiday weekend. And they're literally just walking and 10 p.m. Probably to somebody's dorm. 10 p.m.

to a college student is like our four p.m. Yeah. Where it's like, Oh, you know, we'll be dinner soon. And they were like, there was a group of them in the Ingalls getting cereal.

Like in the cereal aisle, like laughing and kind of cutting up. And I'm like, man, these kids are so loud in the cereal aisle. I'm like, it's so why are they here so late at night? I'm like, why am I here so late at night?

And this should be asking myself. It's so funny that at your core, you are a very old woman. And that's your thought is like, you kid, you're shenanigans. Let's keep it down.

Respect the cereal. Respect the special career. And I am thinking, look how cute they look with their little backpacks going off to their class to get educated. I wonder what their major is.

And I'm thinking I'm their mother. And you're like, I'm going to hit you with my cane if you don't stop. I do constantly threaten to hit them in the street with my car, because they don't understand how crosswalks work. That's powerful.

I always threaten them. I'm like, you're not a crosswalk. I will hit you. And I never do.

Obviously I will stop. But I will give them a mean look. And the finger. Don't do the finger yet.

Yes. But I do give them kind of a nasty look of like, what are you doing? It's a crosswalk here. Do you have any that are like, try me.

No. They usually probably would. They're like, yes ma'am. Yeah.

They just don't even look up from their phones. Oh, that's another problem. But you know, you're going to be that old lady out here on this porch. I should get off my lawn.

Yeah. Who again? My lawn is fenced. Well, get off my driveway.

Yeah, probably. Listen to those kids and their rock and roll music. Yeah. I question how much older you are than me.

Sometimes. At least 87. Yeah. So you're about five years older than me.

Yeah. I'm around 82. I like, I'll it. Yeah.

All right. Good enough. Tell me about this building. All right.

So tourism. So previously, the space had been used as a site of a tombstone business. Ba, ba, ba. I'm excited.

Run by Thomas Wolf's dad. So Thomas Wolf, if you know who he is, his name is W.O. Wolf was a dad. But Thomas Wolf is a famous writer.

It was very popular for Look Homeward Angel. Mm hmm. You can go home again. That kind of thing.

Yeah. You can go home or you can't go home again. Thank you can't. You can't.

You can go home again. I didn't like any of them. I hated all of them. Yeah.

They're all terrible. Yes. I mean, not a fan. Like I'm their great works of literature.

Oh, God bless you. God bless you. That's how I feel about it. That's how she feels allergic.

Feel allergic to it. No, they're they're good works of literature. I'm sure somebody loves them. It's not for my P-Shaw.

That was one of the phrases in Look Homeward Angel, the border keeper, whatever the border house owner, she would always say P-Shaw. And I thought that was so strange in 11th grade English. How does it? All right.

Why? It was. Yeah. So it's a thing.

If you love it, great. But anyway, he is an Asheville native. There's actually his house has been turned into a museum downtown Asheville. So if you go, it's pretty cool.

But anyway, his dad owned a tombstone business in town. So by the early 20s, the building that Mr. Wolf's business had long since closed. And the city was looking for a structure that would put Asheville on the map.

Asheville was already on the map at this point. We had the largest house, which was the Bill Moore. And everybody was coming here to get rid of their tuberculosis. So we pretty much were on the map as it was.

But wealthy people and tuberculosis patients. That's what we really drew in. And that seems accurate now. Maybe not the TV, but the wealthy people for sure.

If you work remotely in California. And we are a pretty big hot spot for like unhoused people. Yes. Well, we have a lot of resources.

You are so PC, you mean homeless. I do. But like, this is a good place to be if you are. The weather is pretty good.

The weather is okay. We don't have too much extreme in either direction for a long period of time. We have a lot of resources. You know, it's like it is urban, but it's, you know, there's enough of a rural aspect to the area that you can kind of camp.

And you know, survive in this area. Side note, I was getting on the free way yesterday. And there was a man. And I like people who are just going to be up front about it.

You know, because you've got so many people who are like, anything to help, you know, need food or something like that. This guy was standing there. And he wrote, need weed. And he had a little picture of marijuana on there.

And I was like, I was almost tempted to give him money. And here's why. He was honest. It wasn't some kind of BS about, Oh, I just need money for food or anything will help.

He was just like, no, I'm looking to get high. I'm Jonesin. And could you help with that? Yeah.

So yeah, I didn't. But yeah. I did appreciate that. Yeah.

We have a very large homeless population or we call it unhoused homeless whatever you want. I didn't know it was no longer PC to call them homeless. I feel like I've heard both recently. I know you.

But yeah, I we do. We have a very large population. I mean, it's an issue because there's just no affordable housing in our area. So even people who are looking to, you know, not be homeless anymore.

And some people, it's just a way of life. But for people who are actively trying to be like not in that situation, it's pretty much impossible. It is because it's so expensive. And that's why we've created a homeless population.

Now, one can afford the extreme rents and very little pay. Now a lot of the jobs. That's crazy. Yeah.

Okay. Back to Asheville in the 20s, which doesn't seem to have changed that much. When they brought LB Jackson to the area where they wanted to erect this building, Jackson was taken aback. You see, the size of the lot was 27 by 60, which is very small and very narrow.

Yeah. Now, most developers would have been turned off by the project. But LV saw this as a challenge. Oh my God.

He's like, challenge accepted. He proposed to the city council that the building would be a skyscraper. Oh, being narrow, but tall. It would be the first skyscraper in the city and would draw tourism because everybody's like, I came to see the mountains and there's a building in my way.

Thanks. Yeah. But let's bring in more people. So at this time in the 1920s, Asheville was booming and people were gobbling up real estate.

You don't say you don't say they couldn't build homes fast enough. You don't say. Like I said, something's never changed. Right.

So there was a lot of competition against developers as to who would get this building and who would build it. But the city heard about the skyscraper and they were like, LB, son, you're the one you're the one you get the bid. So work began in 1922 and took about two years to complete. LB hired Ronald Green as the architect on the project.

The foundation had to be dug much deeper than with a traditional style building in order to withstand the weight and the height of the structure. LB and his brother Winston even stayed in the building for three nights prior to its completion. LB wanted to make sure that the structure was sound and wouldn't cave in on itself. Oh, yeah.

I mean, dedication. Sure. And also like makes the rest of you a little nervous lately. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm glad he was willing to test it out though. He tried it out. Yes.

It was fine for those three nights. It was fine for those three nights. Nothing happens. So it means it's fine.

It means it's perfect. Yeah. The building was completed in 1924 in the area of downtown Ashville known as Pac Square. It's actually right near the chocolate lounge.

Okay. Yeah. It's kind of in that. Yeah.

Yeah. The style of the building was neo-gothic with stone statues like Gargoyles known as Rotescks. Yeah. So they would shut out from the front of the building and they looked a little menacing.

I like it. I feel like that's on brand with your like old lady grumpiness. Yeah. You could have Haley like, like your face in stone out on your building.

Yeah. Angry. Did you shut it out there? The steam would come out your nose.

Yeah. That would be cool. Yeah. Yeah.

We'll think about that. That sounds costly, but we could do it. Yeah. So these Rotescks actually have water that can come out of their mouths.

Almost like a water feature. Isn't that cool? That's what they're vomiting. I would think so too.

But I don't know. Also calming at the same time. Like a nice little trickle. Sure.

So these are medieval mythical creatures that are designed to be both harmonious and protective. Kind of like they're protecting the building. Yeah. Or you protecting your property.

Sure. The building itself was 140 feet tall with 15 stories. It currently holds the record for being the tallest building situated on the smallest lot. Yeah.

And you should see it. It is. It's very skinny. I feel like I know I've probably passed it a million times.

I know you can just have not realized what it is I'm looking at. Yeah. Yeah. It does look odd when you see it.

The building in appearance is skinny. So the rooms don't have a great deal of space with wise, but they're more elongated. So like you would see in a lot of row houses built in like the other Boston area and you know, they're just longer. So great.

As an homage to W.O.W.W.W.W. Thomas Wufstad, monuments at the base of the building depict a half-finished tombstone along with a bronze carving tool similar to those Mr. Wup used as a tombstone maker. So that was kind.

Yeah. LB Jackson, the developer, was quite proud of his work and the building was named after him, the Jackson building. LB even put his office on the top floor. An interesting tidbit though is that he was always worried about a fire.

So he kept a rope near the window so that he could climb down in case of a fire. Oh my gosh. This guy doesn't seem real confident about his building. He doesn't.

But in his defense, fires were very common during this time period. Yeah. And due to like building materials and knob-to-wiring. So it wasn't that he didn't think that his building was solid.

It was just that he was planning for the possibility. And yeah. And also keep in mind that the fire department while close didn't have a ton of manpower. And at that point probably didn't have letters that could reach that high.

Yeah. And it wasn't like you know, there were fire hydrants at every stop. So water could be an issue as well. So I get it.

I see his fear and maybe what we're not looking at is maybe he had a trauma before of building being in a building and there was a fire. Yeah. So I get that. But also why would you put your building on the top floor?

I'd probably be like first floor please. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of strange.

Anyway, on the rooftop of the building was an observation tower that had a 400 times magnification telescope along with an 18 million candle powered searchlight. Yeah. I googled this and searchlights actually have a way of sending parallel beams of light that reflect off whatever you're looking at. So it gives you a lot of clarity.

It's kind of like looking through a magnifying glass. Interesting. Yes. I don't know a lot about that stuff.

So I just have to Google it. Oh, I like it. Yeah. You're welcome.

Thank you. The Jackson building has an elevator, which is really handy since it has 14 stories. Yeah. That helps.

But the building that was built next to it that was also built by the architect green is only eight stories but didn't have an elevator. So they connected the two so that they could share the elevator. Interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. So I mean, I get it if you're on the eight floor, you don't want to. Yeah. You don't want to hoof it.

Yeah. Yeah. Something that was interesting to me was that early on, the property was a private building that was given no public access. So like it started, always started off as like, no, sorry, it's going to be a skyscraper.

I never want to love it, but it's what you can't go inside. You can't go inside. It's just for us. But thanks.

So I don't really understand that, especially when they did the stuff on the rooftop and they wanted to kind of draw tourism. I don't, I don't really get weird. It was office space. So you don't have a lot of people coming and going.

It's interesting. But most of the individuals who worked in the building were real estate developers, city inspectors, and those in the banking and finance industry. In 2004, 80 years after it first opened, the building was sold to pack square properties for $15 million. In 2017, the building was sold again to a real estate firm in Savannah, Georgia, for $28 million.

Wow. Okay. So that's the very brief history of the building. Let's talk about the ghosts.

Please. Just a few years after the Jackson building opened, the city fell on hard times during the Great Depression. It is said that a real estate developer by the name of Frederick M. Messler had an office on the sixth floor on April 5th, 1930.

Messler, who had been struggling financially since the Depression began, was recently diagnosed with a terminal illness and decided to end his life. Oh, feeling he had no other choice. He went to the eighth floor with a Spanish revolver and shot himself in the head. I'd hate to find that.

I hate to clean that up. All the things. Yeah. It is said that Messler's spirit haunts the sixth floor of the building.

It's reported that Messler walks up and down the halls in a saden state seeming to be confused and focused on no one else around him. He is in his own reverie. Messler wasn't the only person to take his own life in the building. So it has been reported that there were other individuals who worked in business and finance who jumped from higher level floors and plummeted to the street below.

This was also related to the Great Depression and a lot of people were losing money at the time. So and that is an interesting thought to me that when you're poor and you become wealthy, you've had that foundation of knowing how to be poor. And so if you had to be poor again, yeah, it would suck a lot, but you could manage it. Yeah, but you would know what you're doing.

But you have that foundation. That's why I think in the end, it's always easier to be poor and then be rich versus be rich and then have to learn how to be poor. Yeah. If you always were with a silver spoon and then had to learn how to be poor, that would be really hard.

Or like even if you have like that much like living well beneath your means. Yes. Like knowing how to not be a wealthy jerk. I have, you know, I didn't grow up and grew up poor, but I didn't grow up rich either.

I was very just a middle-class person. I learned from my grandparents how to be really, because they grew up in the depression. So they would look at my parents like, why are you buying that? What are you doing?

And so therefore I looked at my parents like, why are you buying that? What are you doing? And so I am by a result cheap, thrifty. I've learned all these things along the way.

I can pinch a penny like nobody's business if I have to. Do I love it? No, but can I do it? You betcha.

But I think about, you know, in times where I've had more money, that's when I'm like, you know, time to buy the Clorox clean up and other things that like I try not to buy or, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah. When I finally got paid again, I was like, man, I can buy like hand soap and laundry detergent and it's kind of exciting in a weird way.

That's so exciting. Like, I'm going to put in my order for Target. So happy. It's so exciting.

You're excited about it. Yeah. Isn't that weird? Yeah.

But it is true. And then on the hard times, you're like, okay, I have to stretch this food really, really far. Yeah. And you know, it's hard, but you learn how to do it.

But it teaches you so much character. Yeah. So thinking about these individuals, this probably was the end for them. How do I pick my life up?

I don't want to go do manual labor. God forbid. Right. You know, so they just thought, well, I'll end it all.

That that speaks to desperation. I would rather be dead than poor. Yeah. So it's reported that there is a indentation.

So there's essentially, and I had to Google this because I was like, what? So essentially, in front of the building is a target. Okay. Like, like the target emblem almost, it's a target and it's laid out in bricks.

It's like a nice little circle laid out in bricks. And they say that that was created. It looks like a bullseye. And it was created because many individuals jumped and ended their, like they died right there.

They ended up right there. And so for some reason, I don't know if it was done before or after. Yeah. And there's like some indentation to it.

Yeah. Yeah. Like how hard did they fall? My gosh, I guess from that, I guess from that, yeah, that's crazy.

Yeah. So we need to go check this out. Like I've never known local. We could feasibly do this.

Yeah. So there is one individual that seems to hang out on the top floor. This apparition that likes to pace back and forth and seems very nervous and extremely agitated. What are you doing up there?

I don't know. Just like agitated and nervous. That's me all the time. Same.

We probably passed each other. Yeah. We had a boss who anytime she was agitated, she was a smoker. And you would just see the smoke cloud going this way.

Then going the other way. Yeah. And then going this way. Yep.

Yeah. She just chain smoke and pace. Yep. And there was another worker worker who had to walk like taught when she would talk on a phone, she had to pace.

Yes. And so it would just be like up and down the hall in and out of the room. Yes. And I'm gonna say, why I like to like walk around when I'm on the phone.

Yes. But yeah, that was like her thing. My, when I get super nervous, I do have to walk. Yeah.

I have to like or clean obsessively. Just start cleaning. Yeah. Yeah.

So anyway, so we got the bulls eye happening. We got this person who is going crazy on the top floor. So those walking through Pac Square have reported seen lights go on and off in the building when it appears like no one's there. On the 13th floor, witnesses report seeing translucent looking objects through the windows.

Yeah. So that's all creepy. Probably a good thing that the building isn't open to the public. It still isn't.

It apparently isn't filtrated by the dead. So nice. Yeah. So so you can't visit there in life, but maybe in death.

They should call it the building of the walking dead. They really should. They should be doing it. That sounds better.

Yeah. Of course, that almost makes sense seen as it's like, is this like zombie town? Yeah. So that is my Jackson building story.

It's very short, but I will tell you. That was pretty. Thank you. But I really do want to at least like go pass it and investigate a little bit.

Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. The tall, the tall skinny, it does look strange.

Yeah. Well, then once I was able to pick up it, I'm like, Oh, yeah, I know exactly what that building is. And clearly in Nashville, there are much, much larger buildings nowadays. This was in the twenties, but you know, it still remains.

I would love to just go in at one day. Yeah. It's very strange looking. Yeah.

It's still like private offices and stuff. But you know, maybe if we knew somebody who had a private office, we would have come in and see it. I wonder if you get that feeling. So if you work there, head us up.

Yeah, you can do so. Bye. Sending us an email at mountain mysteries at Appalachian at gmail.com at finest on our dot. This was a, oh, I said at Appalachian.

No, did I? Oh, no. Mountain mysteries. Appalachian at gmail.com.

Y'all should know this by now. Find us on our Facebook at Mountain Mysteries tales from Appalachia. Find us on Instagram, Mount Mysteries dot Appalachia. And check us on patreon at patreon.com slash mountain mysteries.

And a huge shout out to Weaverville in North Carolina. Thank you so much for listening. And we'll catch you next time. Bye.