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Let's go! The Rewatchables brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can get this podcast as a video on Spotify. I highly encourage you to do so.
You can also go on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel and see a bunch of old Rewatchables that we've done, including ones with Kyle Brandt, who's here today. Val Kilmer passed away. We're going to talk about one of our favorite Val Kilmer movies. Not a movie you probably expected.
The Saint. It's next. For an American scientist caught in a world of espionage, there is no escape. We need her to life.
And now, the man who was hired to betray her on Instance North. All those crystal from my thing to boy is the only one who can save her. If you want to live, I'll be my size. Val Kilmer.
Elizabeth Chu. Hello! The Saint. Starts Friday, April 4th, everywhere.
All right, Kyle Brandt, you're basically, you were kind of semi-off this week. Kids were off from school. It wasn't really a Rewatchables taping week for you, but you had to move stuff around because Val Kilmer passed away this week. People, I don't think it was a massive surprise because he didn't stick for a long time yet.
It was a total surprise because Val Kilmer's no longer with us. And we were texting. We had talked about doing the Saint forever, which I don't think would crack most people's top five Val Kilmer list, but for us, it does. And we'll get to that in a second.
But Val Kilmer, big picture, 20,000 feet overhead. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I've been really moved by this. More so than I even expected it to be over the last 48 hours.
I've been upset. I've been on our show, Good Morning Football, talking about it as much as the NFL will allow me to talk about an actor and not Cam Ward or Shadur Sanders. And I think I'm a little surprised how upsetting it was because this is not Tom Cruise or Harrison Ford or Tom Hanks. It's not one of these all-time leading man legends.
It's just someone who has shown up in our life for years and years and was always cool. And I'm looking at him, Bill, it's like we lost the coolest character actor of all time. And that I think really was what he was. And that's really his legacy.
Looked like a leading man, had the talent of a leading man, but was better off playing bass instead of being the lead singer. Yeah, it's weird because he could vacillate. He could lead a movie and be on the poster, right? He could be on Batman.
He could be on The Saint. He could be on The Doors. But usually there was some sort of gimmick that came with it. And he was really at his best in a movie like Heat.
I always felt like if you're thinking of like an athlete, you think of like Randy Moss, somebody like that, that Randy Moss could be on the wrong team and go 4-12 on the Oakland Raiders, or you could put him on an awesome team with weapons everywhere. And everybody's like, oh my God, Randy Moss is amazing. And there's other actors like this. I think there's a Brad Pitt case a little bit too, where he's just way more fun in movies like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
But with Kilmer, I thought what was so weird about him, super handsome. Like anyone I've ever dated has loved Val Kilmer. So he had that. But really quirky and just kind of hard to put a finger on.
And I think that's what, so like Heat, I don't really know what he's doing in that part. I just know I like it. The Saint, I'm not even sure he's good in The Saint, but there's something compelling about watching him the entire time. And then there's other movies like The Doors and some of the other Tombstone and the classics that he's been in, where you're just like, God damn, this guy's great.
Top Gun comes in just like all-time Deion Waiters every time he's in. So he could do everything. And yet you're right. It wasn't like the type of career of a cruise or some of these other dudes that could just go for 35 years.
There was a shelf life to it. Definitely. And to continue the Randy Moss comparison, he at the end of his career before he got really sick, it was Randy Moss on the 49ers and then the Titans and it just wasn't happening anymore. But I think also part of his legacy is like go to anybody and say, what's your favorite Val Kilmer role?
Or you know what? What's your favorite three Val Kilmer roles? I bet he's not the lead in any of those movies. I bet he's not.
It's like his four most famous roles are five, six even. It's just like we're at Iceman, we're at Doc Holliday, we're at Chris from Heat, and then just other kind of supporting stuff like his lead vehicles, even though we're doing one today. The Saint is a hack for him. He figured it out.
He said, I want to play cool little interesting side characters. So just give me a movie where I play 10 of those and sew them together. And that's why it's fun to watch Val in the Saint. Yeah, and he could also be good in movies that weren't that good, which is another weird superpower.
I really like Ghost in the Darkness, Golden wrote it, Val's great in it, and Michael Douglas is horribly miscast, which Golden wrote a whole chapter in his book about. But Val's good. He makes sense. He's got this weird, I think he's like a British accent or South African accent, whatever he always has to bring some sort of weird wrinkle to it, even in Heat.
You know, the hair is a little different. He's like volatile, but also hard to figure out, but kind of cool. And then the way he works the gun, they always say how military people would study how well he was using a gun in that. The doors, he just disappears into Jim Morrison.
There was some stuff, the SNL account that I really like on Instagram. They ran all the things from his SNL that he hosted in 2000. He's amazing. He's one of the best random in-and-out hosts I've ever had.
He's doing Top Gun. He's just Jim Morrison again. He's just floating around all these different things. But if you guys, if you're looking for some Kilmer this week, and we all are, one of the sketches Bill's talking about is it's with Chris Cornell and Will Ferrell.
And later in life, Tom Kazansky is just an airline pilot, but he's still doing all this. He's like, we got a bogey at six o'clock. He's got tone on us. And Cornell's like, that's the 935 out of Tampa.
Calm down. It's a great sketch. He's going to have a flight attendant. I don't let you because you're dangerous.
Do you want decaf? Well, I shave with a Mach 3. If you think you're dead. All right, Tom.
It's a perfect sketch. He made fun of himself. And it's funny, Bill, because he's a pretty serious guy. He's a very serious actor.
You know, we can get the whole thing. If people don't know, the youngest student ever in Juilliard in New York City. And if you've never seen his upbringing, this guy grows up in Chatsworth, in LA, in the Valley. Got a couple of brothers.
His younger brother is the creative one in the family. He's the director. He's going to go on to be the successful brother. His younger brother dies in the family jacuzzi at 15 years old.
Like, just dies there, right there on the property. And shortly after that, Kilmer shows up at Juilliard and like, let's act. And he is like a true, true thespian who is all about characters, acting, method, all of it. But then he wound up in movies like Top Gun, which is for kicking ass and eating popcorn.
It's just fun. And he could do comedies. Yep. He could do weird accent movies.
He could do weird part movies. And he would say over and over again, whatever movie he was doing, he needed some sort of challenge, some sort of thing that did interesting to him. And it's funny because in the 90s, when all the magazines kind of showed up, people covering the industry just got way better in all these different ways. The Internet's coming in the late 90s.
But there was an awareness I had, just somebody living in Boston who liked movies and knew nothing other than what I read of like, oh, Val Kilmer's kind of difficult. That became a thing with him. And it kind of added to just the mystique of him. Like, he does Batman once and he's signed to do other ones.
And they basically like let him out because he's kind of a pain in the ass. By the mid 90s, pain in the ass, Val Kilmer. And it was kind of like hard to say what was real and what wasn't real. There was an Entertainment Weekly story about him in 96.
That kind of hammered him. Premiere had this piece about him in 97. I have some quotes. But EW in 96 called him Mr.
Unpopularity. He was saying how he was committing six million in a picture and nobody liked working with him, which I don't think was totally true. But he was coming out from 85 to 96. Top Secret, Real Genius, Top Gun, Willow, The Doors, Tombstone, Batman Forever, Heat, Ghost of Darkness.
And then it starts to get weird right around The Saint, the movie we're talking about. Because he's doing I Wanted to Dr. Moreau, which I might be the only person in America who likes that movie. It's that shit.
It's that shit. It's the craziest. I was trying to convince CR to do it for rewatchables. And even CR's like, I don't know, man.
It's like you're offering a plutonium. And he's doing The Saint. But there's, this is from the premiere in 97. Opinions about Kilmer swing from pro, parentheses, artist, to violently conned, disturbed.
With demanding and difficult somewhere in between, he's aloof, then he's shy, he's a liar, he's terrific, he brings out the worst in everyone, you just have to know how to handle him. And then a quote from Tom Sizemore. Never had I heard so much crap about an actor I had such a good time with. It's all bullshit.
He doesn't explain himself to people, so people talk. The action is the juice. And to me, I miss the juice. Maybe this should go under what stage is the best.
I miss the problematic on-set actor, like shoving the director and busting up the hotel room. You know, we got it a few years later after Kilmer, it was Russell Crowe. But I mean, listen, Eddie Vedder was difficult. Axl Rose was a complete asshole.
Like, those were my heroes in music. And there was something that was, I don't know if it's romantic, but maybe it was just old-fashioned cool about, oh, yeah, he and Joel Schumacher exchanged blows on the set of Batman. Kilmer won't take any shit. He's so hard to work with, but he's so talented.
They still do it. Like, I thought that was kind of cool back in the day. Yeah, and Schumacher, I don't think history has treated him kindly the last 30 years, but he was one of the people that was killing him left and right. And then John Frankenheimer, who directed him now in Dr.
Murrow, said, I will never climb Mount Everest, and I will never work with Val Kilmer again. There isn't enough money in the world. And Schumacher was thrown under the bus left and right, but I think he was just a really passionate artist who never wanted to be as famous as he got. But all these dudes, at the same time, they can't resist it.
It's like, here's the Batman suit. And they're like, ah, fuck. All right, fine, I'll be Batman. And then you, like, hate yourself that you did it, you know?
Well, I think that's why also the snake is actually a great movie to do for the Val Kilmer tribute, because I think this is the most interesting juncture of his career. Like, at the crossroads. So, he's doing his thing. This is post-Tombstone.
Michael Keaton decides, I'm out on Batman. I'm not doing it. Kilmer gets a call while he's in Africa saying, Batman's yours. Doesn't read a script, doesn't do anything, signs up for it.
And he talks about this in his documentary. This is when my opinion of Val Kilmer jumps leaps and bounds. He was so miserable playing Batman, not just because of Schumacher, but he's surrounded by Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones, who are actors, actors, and performers. And they're just painting scenery and chewing shit off and, like, owning every scene.
And he's sitting there saying these stupid Batman lines, and he can't move and he can't act. And it was, like, torture for him. It was heartbreaking here. For an artist, he's like, everyone wants to be Batman.
I don't think everyone necessarily wants to play Batman. Like, that's Val Kilmer. So, The Saint, which was a TV series that had been bounced around. And we'll talk about how this was, like, a big TV remake thing.
And it comes out. And it does well. It doesn't do amazing. But it always hurt about it.
They're going to try to reboot it. And Mission Impossible beats it by a year. Same studio, Paramount. And we'll talk about all the ways that was bad for The Saint.
But I'm, so I'm living in Charlestown in 1997 in Boston. I have the illegal cable box. Right. Which I've talked about many times in the rewatchables.
And it would have, like, 12 pay-per-view channels. And if it was, like, The Saint was now on pay-per-view, it wouldn't be like you got it on demand. It would be, it would run from two to four, and then four to six, and six to eight, to ten. And that's how I would watch some of these movies.
It was like trains. Just keep it on. I would be, like, writing my Boston Sports.com. I just had to stand on the background for three days.
And I think that's why I like the movie so much, because the movie's incoherent. We'll go over the plot. The plot is, like, you have to watch this movie seven times to even fully understand what's happening. It's what it is, and why I like this so much.
It's a great hang. This is, like, I can't think of a better, like, airplane movie than The Saint. You're paying attention. You don't really have to pay attention.
Elizabeth Shue looks amazing. Homer looks great. He's wearing weird disguises. There's a couple chase scenes.
And it's a hang. And it's over. And this is where I'm going to throw. I'm doing it right now.
The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harris Ford. You're going to do it in the open. Let's go. I'm doing it in the open.
I've said this forever, and I'm going to say it now. This should have been born Mission Impossible. There should have been six of these. It really makes me mad.
I've felt this way for 30 years. And it wasn't ostensibly because it was a hit, but not, like, a mega hit. And then Kilmer was probably difficult. And then what is the other reason sitting there?
Mission Impossible. So Mission Impossible comes out in 96. And why not go head to head with that? They can't do it?
The Mavericks got too much rice, man. Is that the reason? So I think there's other reasons. They didn't really hit the full potential of what this could have been.
Partly because Mission Impossible had already happened. Now, there's this whole alternate universe where the Saint just comes out in 94 and probably shifts what Mission Impossible is. But I think the reverse happened. But we just look at it.
Great name. I know what it is, The Saint. Repeatable action movie gimmick. Guy who's, like, kind of a spy.
He's a thief, and he disguises our gimmick. Great lead actor. I want to spend more time with Val. Just like Damon starts born.
Okay, great. More Damon. We have a superhero origin story in the orphanage. Yeah, we sure do.
And the girl falls through her death, and it's like, oh, shit. We're on location. There's action. There's villains.
What else do I need? I know. We should have five of these. I know.
The Saint. Budapest. The Saint. Argentina.
Like, what the fuck are we doing? Yes, let's go. It's like Real Housewives. Just move them all over.
The coolest thing that the Saint does is the costumes, right? Like, the problem is, though, is that Mission Impossible almost does the exact same thing with the masks, almost kind of in a cooler way. It's kind of better. Yeah, it's just a better made of it.
It's like they take their best love and hit it better. You know what I mean? And it's just, Cruz is a little more compelling than Kilmer when he's just being the agents. And so, I hear you on that.
Like, it's Mission Impossible superior products. And then the Saint would have to market corrected a year later and didn't have that kind of firepower. It's an all-time market correction. And the irony of it is you have Maverick fucking beating the Iceman yet again.
He just, Maverick just outlawed him one more time. Same thing. No difference than Kaczynski flying in that whatever conflict we were in in 1986 and Maverick became the hero. All Kaczynski did was just kill it.
Top of his class. Just getting wins left and right. Goes on, has a better job, as we find out, of Maverick. Has just way more important than the country than Maverick still somehow wins.
Same thing here. And it cuts even worse because, meanwhile, Kaczynski's trying to make up for it by getting with Maverick's girl from Cocktail. And that doesn't do anything either. There's a whole universe involved here.
It's fucking bullshit. I love this gimmick. There's a couple other things I love. But we got to do the disguises now.
I can't wait for the categories. I have everything written down. I know you both. Go, go, do your thing.
Do your thing with the disguises. They're the best. And if you said it's a great hang movie or airplane movie, the lead character changes every 10 minutes. You get a different cool voice in Kilmer and he just gets to cook.
So, I did a top five. I got the top five, my top five characters in this. All right? Spanish guy on flame who's swinging the medallion.
Little Jim Morrison. Once again, dips into past roles. It's a little Jim Morrison-ish. He's got a little bit of the Lizard King.
His hair almost looks like Ron Perlman in Beauty and the Beast. He's got number three. I got the old Grumpy, the cold fusion mumbo-jumbo. You don't believe in this type of stuff.
I like him. He's like a cross between Ernie McCracken and Joseph Lieberman. He's just all over the place. That's my three.
With the big teeth, right? Terrible teeth. Yeah. Terrible comb over.
And he hits on the young girl. Two, I got a German lipstick guy. It's so early. Do you want some coffee or something?
Love in the Train Terminal with the lipstick and everything? That's the one I wrote. His name's Bruno, right? I can't remember their names.
I wrote that he looks like a Danish hairdresser or the fifth BG or both. Yes. He has the hair like the guy from Firehouse. Yeah.
And the number one I got, I got the artist Thomas with the wine and the sculpting. And I think that's the best part of the movie. That's my guy. You?
I had all those written down. I don't want to sleep on. First time we see him, he's the gimp from Pulp Fiction. Climbing the building.
We're in the same. Yeah. He's got that. I also enjoyed Russian Maid Lady.
Sure. I honestly could have spent another 40 seconds with Russian Maid Lady with him. And then Ivan Tretiak, lookalike guy. He's cosplaying Ivan Tretiak.
Yeah. That's right. I mean, so in the research, they openly say this because this was what he was all excited about. They didn't want him to do as many disguises because they felt like it was stepping on Mission Impossible.
You motherfuckers, you were developing this before Mission Impossible. But Kilmer was like more and more and more disguises. And they're like, no, no, Alas, you're on the corner. I feel like every scene he could have been somebody different.
I'm actually, listen, I actually don't like the scenes when he's not somebody. Like, the weak link of this movie, Bill, like, when he's not in disguise, he's not that great. Like, it's kind of a little bit boring when he's just Val Kilmer. You're like, get back to this guy.
Even the Australian guy is like, guns make me nervous. I like it all. I don't want him out of costume ever. So Roger Ebert, I won't step on his review later, but he wrote, I've been trying to put my finger on the movie's key problem.
And I think it may be that Kilmer plays the saint too realistically. If you take a step back and really think about James Bond, you'll realize that he's mad. So is Batman. So is the Phantom.
They live in fantasy worlds and own creation, bringing certain style to their delusions. The saint still harbors ordinary human emotions. Matt will not do. I thought that was interesting.
He's like, Calcomer almost plays it too straight. And yet, I think that's why this movie is such a good hang because I don't feel like, you know, I never have to be too involved in character arc and that shit. Get one flashback to the girl following her death in the orphanage. Other than that, he's just having fun stealing money from people.
Yeah, he's driving his car around, he's kind of fucking around, he's leaving notes for her. But when he's just Simon, it's like, you know how you said you don't really know what Kilmer is doing and he's kind of just underplaning and brooding? He's not doing much of Simon. He's just letting the action handle it.
He's letting Moscow handle it because it looks really cool. The old TV show remake era we have to mention really quick. Sure. This is a stretch of two Brady Bunch movies.
The Flintstones, Adam's Family, Charlie's Angels, The Fugitive, Beverly Hills, Hillbillies, The Saint, there was more. And for some reason, I feel like if you look back, even though the 90s were amazing for movies and we had all these great stars and directors in there, this is also Hollywood telling us they're starting to run out of ideas. They were like, The Saint? Sure.
Okay, Greenlight. Let's go. And they're just doing this with basically everything that came out in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. As a guy who was going to movies all the time, you and me as well, were you going out and being like, I got to see John Goodman as Fred Flintstone?
I'm there. I wasn't. I didn't care. I was kind of annoyed about it.
I was a late teenager. And even now, I'm like, those movies I have no desire to watch. I've never shown one of my kids. Yeah, it almost seemed like the thing that hit the hardest was the casting.
Even before you came out of the movie, you'd be like, so John Goodman's going to be Fred Flintstone. I'm like, okay. And then you'd go see the movie. Remember, one of the weirdest ones was Lost in Space, a TV show that wasn't even like, you know, I never felt like that show held up.
And then all of a sudden, they're making it, and I think like Matt LeBlanc is in it. Matt LeBlanc's in it, Lacey Chabert, William Hurt. Right. They run it.
Why do we do this? And it amounted to nothing. We don't need it. It's not like Star Trek or Star Wars.
Lost in Space is kind of a reach, guys. We need that, but they're like, anything that was on TV, let's do it. They never made a Gilligan movie, but I'm surprised they didn't. Yeah, like, I remember in the 2000s, I was really, when I finally had like, just enough juice to even get a meeting with anybody, and I was like, gotta remake The White Shadow, gotta remake The White Shadow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you realize like, if something hasn't really existed for 25, 30 years, why do you even have to remake it? Because ultimately, the people that are going to carry a movie or a TV show are in their teens or their 20s, and they have no history with the show. If you remade The White Shadow right now, nobody would fucking know what it was.
You know, so like, I thought that way with The Saint. I don't know what The Saint was. It was like, oh, Roger Moore, TV show in the 60s. It's like, and it kind of peaked with the 60s TV series, which was with Roger Moore, who then became Bond.
Another piece of this movie, our girl, Elizabeth Shue. Let's go. You know, after Karate Kid and Cocktail, there's not a lot left to do. Like, she won an Oscar, so what?
Like, Oscar's over here, best actress, fine. Other people have won best actress. Not everybody's gone toe-to-toe with Macchio and Cruise in a five-year span. I don't know, when you fly that coast to the Sun, Kyle, I don't know what's left for your IMDb, your career, whatever, but she wins the Oscar, and this was one of her big movies after.
The Oscar was really weird with certain actors. Like, Adrian Brody's another one. It's actor or actress. Sometimes that's not what you think it is, and in this case, she makes the trigger effect, The Saint, Deconstructing Harry and Paul Meadow are the next four movies, and the moment kind of comes and goes, but this was a memorable one.
Well, let me say this as we remember Kilmer. Shue has an Oscar. Val Kilmer, never nominated for an Oscar, never nominated for a Golden Globe, ever, in his life, and I've seen a lot of things this week, and I think we should mention this, a lot of people are saying, oh my God, Doc Holliday and Tombstone, how was he not nominated? It's an outrage he wasn't nominated.
I'm like, yeah, he's incredible. I went and did the rewatch list thing, Bill, and I looked at who was nominated that year for Best Supporting Actor. Holy shit. Loaded.
All right, 1993 was Tombstone, so it'd be the 94 Oscars. Let me read you the Best Supporting Actor nominees. Leonardo DiCaprio, Gilbert Grape. Jesus.
Ray Fiennes, Schindler's List. John Malkovich in The Line of Fire. Pete Coastal Thwait for In the Name of the Father, and the Oscar was the Tommy Lee Jones for The Fugitive. I knew that was an elevated train.
Dude, that's the lineup. And there's other stuff from that year, too, that's even worse. So he was in the 92 Oscars. Here's what we have for that one.
Okay, let's go. Hopkins, Sounds of Lambs. Not going to argue. No.
De Niro and Cape Fear, no argument. Max Payne. Robin Williams and the Fisher King, pretty good. Nick Tolti, Prince of Tides, maybe.
I don't know. Warren Beatty and Bugsy. Bugsy's just infuriating. Bugsy's all over the place in the Oscars, and it's like, really, Val Kilmer?
He sings all of the music, Asgium Morrison, and Zorris. That's mentioned everything else. I think that was the one for him that he got boned on, personally. And remind me, that would have been before everyone started shitting on how hard difficulty was, or maybe that's part of that.
That was before. No, that was before. Because he made it through a movie with Oliver Stone, who I don't exactly think was Mr. Drummond from Back to Life.
No, I think it worked, and we get to that, we talk about this, but we get now up to the same, where I remember the story about it was more than about the movie. It was about Val Kilmer as an asshole. That was just, it was like the story was written about it. Sometimes it's happened, especially back then before, and that Waterworld is expensive and it's not that good, like don't even like it.
Or we're even seeing it now played by the bearded bad guy from Taken 2 all those years later. Still evil. Younger, but just as evil. Don't you just smile when you see that guy.
I love that guy. I love him to say his name because I don't care what his name is. I just know him from Taken 2, but he's been in 40 things. He's in everything.
You need a Russian guy who's kind of evil, but charismatic and has a cool beard. Yeah. He's your guy. And then his son, Ilya, who's also really good because he has a sleazy ponytail.
He's got a cocaine watch. Didn't even know those existed. Oh yeah. But most importantly, an evil cane.
Did we just not do props enough with our action movies? He's like, I don't know why. He's running around with the cane. He's using it.
It's almost like he would use it if you're walking on a tightrope crossing buildings and he's not bouncing. But the cane, I guess he can hurt people with it. It's made out of metal. It's never explained.
He never talks about it. What is it? He's totally able-bodied. He doesn't need it to walk.
This is a little window dressing and a little lipstick to put on him. They even occasionally will do the sound effects when he does it like he's Zorro or something. And at the end, he knew there was going to be a weapon and there's this little sticker that comes out of the end. That guy, let's just say we can revisit that actor when it comes to recasting.
And I think we've got to give this guy some, we've got the ponytail and we've got the cane and the computer watch. Let's dress him up a little bit. At least if you're going to carry the evil cane around all movie. I need you to do some nunchuck stuff with it or be able to flip it around and just be a little more intimidating.
He's carrying it. It's like, is this guy disabled? Is he doing this so he can get a better parking space? What is his reason?
Kilmer's last movie before this is Batman Forever in which Jim Carrey has a cane that Carrey has talked about. He worked for months to get to do all those like the contouring thing because Nicole Kidman's in it right as she's doing it and then Chris O'Donnell was like basically going to be Matt Damon and then Matt Damon's like fuck that and market corrects and the good one thing but the five of those people were pretty massive. No, that movie played. That movie got the plane down.
The next one that came out was The Disaster of Clooney and Schwarzenegger and that one is just unwatchable garbage. Schwarzenegger is Mr. Freeze. Yeah, career render.
Everybody chill. And by the way, Kilmer is looking back at the time like you said no to a Batman movie. Nobody does that. He made the right choice.
He dodged that bullet and he gave us the same which is way better than Batman and Robin. So the biggest thing from this movie and the legacy after it came out other than I kind of like that movie. The music was amazing at the time. It's amazing now.
There was a real moment and I was a big like I was a big at the same time simultaneously like hip-hop rap but also obviously grunge and both of those things are exploding at the same time and I love it and I wasn't really the electronic scene I was about a year late too and I had a couple friends that were in it and there was a couple clubs in Boston that had it and I was like I don't get it I don't get it and this movie kind of got me into it. We have Orbital does the theme song which I think is one of the better action theme songs. Like the old guys trying to play this music and there's more stuff in there but there was a specific moment and I think this is the only movie that hit it correctly because by the late 90s that moment kind of moved into something else but all of it and it's all in there and I think it's a big drunkard for this movie. This wasn't your music.
You were more of a Pearl Jam. Oh no, I was more of a Pearl Jam but listen and this is my what's the most 1997 thing about this movie. He's sitting around on his like shitty 1997 computer negotiating with the mafia just blasting some smashing pumpkins in his apartment. No problem.
And then he's in a chase scene with a shootout and he puts the pumpkins back on as he drives and it's like there was some exec bill that went to the filmmakers like we gotta get some pumpkins in they're hot just put them in we're like it's a movie in Russia it doesn't really fit fucking put them in it's a cover of a car song and they're driving a car it makes sense and I'm bobbing my head you're all I've got tonight Oh yeah it was a really important CD in the mid 90s Yeah because you know we didn't have Spotify back then we didn't have Apple we didn't have anything and it's like you had to buy CDs that had as many possible songs that you might have liked as possible and this one was great So listen if we're 90s soundtracks you want to put it up there The Crow is up there for me Last Action Hero Judgment Night and those are singles obviously singles are probably the number one but those are the ones you have to have Yeah Above the Rainbow Throne too directed by Philip Noyce who did Dead Calm a really good movie with Nicole Kidman that made her not a star but put her on the radar for everybody Patriot Games Clear and Present Danger The Saint and Sliver with Sharon Stone so he was busy in the 90s but I have some thoughts Basic Instinct also known as Sliver tough one I have some thoughts on him for later let's take a break and then I want to tackle the plot really quick Let's go Alright so I watched this movie with my wife who really likes it she loves Valcomer we watched this movie a couple times I think we might have been dating when it was on pay-per-view or maybe it was on HBO but I was always into it and she's like Valcomer so we're watching it and I look over and she's smiling and I was like you like this movie and she's like I really like it I don't know what it's about and I don't really care and I was like that's perfect you should have been on the movie poster I'm going to try to explain what it's about just for the people who have watched this and kind of sort of understood so we see Simon when he's dressed like the Gimp he steals a microchip from a Russian oil company he's caught by Tretiak by his son who's Tretiak he is an oil billionaire and this plot which is really hard to figure out because they don't have somebody actually explaining it to you he's withholding energy from the Russians and they're having the worst summer ever because he's trying to make the president look bad because he wants to overthrow the president and people are freezing to death because they can't eat their homes yes so he gets this microchip and then Tretiak and his son hire him instead of just killing him which I guess isn't epic they could have just murdered him but instead they're like no we're going to use him he's going to try to get this cold fusion thing from us and then we'll be able to use it and then he's going to kill Simon so Simon figures this out he learns that this guy instead of selling the cold fusion formula he's going to sell a fake formula to the president the president's going to have this rally and he's going to show how the cold fusion works and it's not going to work and the Russian people are going to go what the fuck I thought you said to be a cold fusion we've got to overthrow you and now Tretiak is going to take over who he doesn't realize is the saint has 12 hours and he gets the real formula in so when the president shows him how cold fusion is going to work it works and Tretiak has been saying it's not going to work he basically becomes the Nico Harrison of this whole thing and he's like you traded Luka Dujic and he fired Nico he's fired Nico and his career's over and that's how the saint wins that's what happens in this movie I watched it 15 times before I understood it same with me I think you just said some things that explained it to me I'm supposed to pretend I know what you're talking about I'm nodding I'm like oh that's what happened but you know it's the same thing the same reaction to Mission Impossible the year before was no one understood what the fuck the plot is and why is this guy alive now and it was very very hard to follow and in the meantime this movie is like what is this cold fusion I have no idea what that is and what that means especially me seeing it at 17 and I know the girl who was on the soccer team with Daniel LaRusso invented it so it's very confusing and I don't know where we're going but thank you for explaining it to me I never got it so actually on paper it sounds great I don't think if they executed the narrative as well as they could have and if you're going to nitpick maybe one or two more set pieces like that you know one of the best scenes that we'll get to is when they're running along the river and he has to go in the water it's like two scenes short of stuff like that but this is what makes me so mad why we didn't have the Saint 2 because I think the Saint 2 almost would have been like John Wick 1 versus John Wick 2 where John Wick 2 they're like we've learned John Wick 1 worked some stuff didn't work let's fix it for John Wick 2 and it'll be incredible and I think the Saint 2 would have been incredible I really do it's like a huge missed opportunity it would have been a anything you can do I can do better with Mission Impossible it would have been a cold war because they would try to one up each other every time and you know Mission Impossible cruises hanging from the wires above the floor like it was really cool Saint 2 would have been there also owned by the same studio and there's this alternate universe where the Saint and Mission Impossible kind of cross over in a movie and we get Navigate versus Ice again maybe they're trying to do the same thing yeah why not hey this movie had a 90 million dollar budget made 169 million so it wasn't a failure that's another thing like this movie made money what the fuck what are we doing I'm just mad that they didn't have a crossover and that Ethan Hunt and Simon Templar didn't have like a shower scene in their towels where they're just zipping out and looking at each other and telling them you're everyone's problem like that's the scene we need Rick Rasevich is there for no reason at all Goose is there Roger Ebert two stars he called it a James Bond wannabe which is an irony since James Bond in a way is a Saint clone says the fight scenes go on too long and they're not interesting the villains aren't single minded enough what does work is the chemistry between Kilmer and Shu who's seen Savage Certain Charm there's a Siskel and Ebert TV review of this and Siskel goes Siskel hated it he goes I think the disguises are a big mistake I think it becomes the Nutty Saint if you will and my response to that instead of fuck you Roger is fuck you Gene nobody asked you sorry to like disguises and locations and action fuck you I like the Nutty Saint I like the Nutty Saint it's hilarious I don't know what you're talking about the Nutty Saint sounds great watch that right now most rewatchable scene so our choices are Moscow Microchip Heist which is the Gump from Pulp Fiction disguise but then bushy mustache English accent disguise where he's basically like a hockey coach looks like he's coaching the Buffalo Sabres in 1996 kind of a look but he's this is where we find out Tretioc Gas and Oil Industries you know we're in good shape there we get the Russian National Anthem I know that's always and we get to jump off the roof into the pit which these movies will do it's just the truck is lined up down you know and there's just enough padding that you can fall 16 stories and it's fine I don't know if it works this way in real life I'm not going to question how about the flex on Simon as he's falling down he removes his mustache as he's falling I don't know if that's totally necessary but he lands on what looks like an inflatable truck and every time he fucks over the Russians guys you get that it's pretty badass when he takes off his mustache you think like it's going to turn into a parachute and it's like no he's just he's just fucking with him next one long hair Val you're f***ing you're f***ing favorite character what's this guy's name thomas moore thomas moore the artist who is like he does the south african accent just very difficult to do you saw the uh damon pulled it off in the soccer movie and then he learned it on set and it goes in the darkness and he showed up with very difficult to do and he the way i mean i have a lot to say about this scene from start to finish with shoe and the painting the sculpture the wine it's fantastic it's why you watch this movie so he seduces her at dinner yes there's an uneaten entire plate of spaghetti meatballs next in front of shoe for the first part of this i don't know if i don't know if my hot cold fusion scientist was really a spaghetti meatballs person i don't allow it i guess but she never touches it and then uh it all leads to seduction seduction abrupt departure yes i'm gonna go smash a wine bottle against the wall for no reason i'm gonna bleed like i'm bruno sammartino in shea stadium in 1978 just bleeding um bleeding and that's just too much for her she has to have sex with him it's full bret hart stone cold cut yourself and when he falls there's that awesome moment where before he cuts himself he goes what are you doing and then he does it and he's like i was weeping and i was thinking of you and she just falls for it i have this answer unanswerable questions but first of all because this comes after the badass move with the wine was like sure that's 400 which the waiter ever does and he was mistake two of them you counted if you did that entire sequence to a woman like would that work in 2025 like would it just so disastrously i don't know if you're bleeding and cutting yourself probably not right i think it only works in train of thread the paul thomas anderson movie thing that they look oh yeah that works yeah it's there's some sort of you're preying on on a a woman who's very professionally busy yes but has no self-esteem with men which i think is the way they drew this character yeah that smoke and hop nobody's ever hit on her because she's just all she's doing is cold fusion every day hasn't had time to meet anyone and this guy just hits it by the way i skipped over a scene with her that's one of my favorites dr emma russell answers cold fusion questions yeah let's go the raw natural power just waited to be harnessed you could drive your car 55 million miles it would be the end of pollution she's going and going and i'm just like i'm in this all sounds great um at the same time i i still feel like you know brian flanagan yeah talking about cocktails and dreams with him i still feel like it's a 10 out of 10 for her as a career effects um this is pretty good though her name is cold fusion this is i guess one of the smartest most progressive scientists in the world she gets up in front of students and she goes i don't really have anything to say like any questions and then they don't of course she's like please and finally one of these students is just like how's it work and then she starts spouting this shit about well positively charged deuterons attached to the palladium cathode it's like is this like a 12th grade science project does she have a diorama it's the most unsophisticated shit ever and val just sits back and he's just got hard eyes he's like i'm gonna give my entire style of living for this girl i love her and i guess still bill simmonson too you know i thought it worked well here's the thing i think they were they were they probably looking like all right this lady's especially is nuclear cold fusion yeah these people probably aren't the greatest hangs so and how do we how do we excuse the fact that she's also beautiful right and fun to hang out with so what's gonna be her vice i'd be like oh i can see why she hasn't found anyone i just think they made her like try to be super insecure she's doing the thing right and i guess i guess on the positive side mission accomplished she looks like she's a 13 year old giving a seventh grade project this is my book report on are you there god it's me margaret like what are you doing there's no gravitas at all but like listen i know we're jumping around one of the key character moments for her is when they're about to do it and she goes into the bathroom and she's like this is really happening and this is really i'm like you're a virgin why do i feel like you're 16 this is so weird you're like in your 30s i think she's like you guys this is not called fusion but gd gloom's one of my favorite authors what are we doing uh all right a couple more rewatchable scenes the mouse race club let's go anytime there's evil russians you know there's gonna be a fun club and you know they're all gonna be hanging around a table with their arms around hot russian women and there's gonna be some sort of weird gambling event and in this case it was a mouse race and i gotta say i was kind of in like i know espn's trying to come up with counter programming like pickleball and uh what's that one cornhole mouse races i was really intrigued by bad news for yes again though uh dana white's already adding it to a slap fight i had this i had this for um benihana this is a movie that features red square in moscow and i'm still like i don't know the russian mafia rat race prostitute coke that is pretty badass they have a fucking mariachi band inexplicably there i don't know why that place is wild i love this scene and then we have simon dressed up like chediac going you know the hardest part of being you is pretending to be bad in bed whoa um next one is emma confronting simon after he's escaped and she somehow uh figures out right away where he is which we'll get to in picking this but uh she says i would give them to you if you asked me in the cold fusion um i like calling it cold fusion i don't even know if i'm right is that what it's called yeah it's cold fusion right exactly that's like the whole thing why doesn't starbucks use cold fusion ice instead of doing the cold brew why don't they have like a cold fusion because it doesn't it can't even doesn't necessarily exist or be the right thing we have uh cold fusion macchiato for bill for bill with three with a triple non-fat vanilla it sounds like something my daughter would order um okay here's my favorite scene i'm just gonna tell you this is um my most rewatchable simon and emma escape from a million his crew the watch out of the river and they're running alongside the ice on the river which is just fucking cool it's definitely one of those how did they do this how did they not fall in and then val has to go in the water i think this also gets great shock order word that was i think gonna be dead in two minutes maybe 30 seconds in that water um he's looking up he's looking up again she pulls him out really good stuff we needed like two more of these scenes in this movie i remember being in the theater in the scene people were losing their minds they were could not believe that they were pulling this off and i just i hate to have this angle i'm watching it yesterday and i was like tom cruise does this before he has breakfast now it's i've seen this so many times done way bigger at the time in 97 it's like wow killer's holding his breath for that long like tom cruise holds his breath for an hour while he's like spelunking it's it's just the game has changed since back then you know what i mean it's like now everybody's running 4-3 the linebackers run 4-3 it's different now yeah cruz is doing this for real and there's 17 doctors on hand because he can only be in there for three minutes and 22 seconds before his body will shut down but cruz wants to do it yeah he's 25 years older at this point he's just outdoing everybody yeah well we also get the ms stripping to warm him up great gimmick i have hypothermia can you lie on me with just your broad can you make sure it's like a smoking hot black bra like make sure it's not just some like entry level thing i need something sexy that's a landmark scene for me and then uh escaping the waterlogged tunnel heading to the embassy escape get a little embassy run absolutely not quite an angry run that you patented um because it's a little sloppy and ilia comes in for the grab but she gets in and then uh can you do a little russian roulette with val there in that scene as well i like when we do a gimmick that's named after the country that we're actually in i think they get bonus points for that and then uh last one i have is a cold fusion parade rally that's the actual ending question mark sure that's how they end this movie with a cold fusion rally um they do and i don't know if you have this here somewhere else but you sent me the link of the alternate ending yeah i have somewhere else okay good because i'm happy to discuss it now well discuss it because i haven't seen it before and i watched it riveted and it's radically different what they did yeah so it's a big it's on youtube and it's in russian for some reason it's not an american i don't know how it got out um but it's a whole action thing where kilmer goes in and it's like people are getting shot and it's building things are blowing up and uh ilia dies it's kind of seems more like a mission impossible movie and i have no idea why they didn't include it the only thing i can think of is did they decide they didn't want the saint to actually kill anyone in this movie because he doesn't kill anyone in this movie yeah i i don't i think that they pivoted to the bigger love story because there was reshoots and i know she was in a bunch of them and after the light comes on in the red square it turns into a nicholas sparks novel and it's like they're at a cottage making love and like kissing each other in bed they ended it with the love story and that was a choice now like let's grab more shoe and i saw i watched it it looked like a kind of a pierce rosnan air james bond ending it was fine yeah it was fine well how they ended it uh it made somebody like my wife happy she's just like i really like this movie i know i like i like it ending in the cottage so what do you have for most rewatchable i still like my guy thomas the artist when he's just like i'm just a traveler searching for truth what are you searching for and she's like i found it i'm looking for you let's jump in the sack that's my thing what's the most 97 thing about this movie i'll give you some options go ahead the soundtrack we talked about yeah a movie not realizing that mission possible also existed as they were making it i think their choices are a lot different every scene involved in the internet like all of them my personal winner is the nokia 9000 communicator yeah which was a cutting edge phone in 96 it was a handheld but it was also a clamshell pocket computer and it had a little keyboard and apps and i did not have it because it was expensive um and i might not have known anyone that had it and i might not have ever seen it until this movie yeah this was still paging people 911 call me like that nobody had that thing and that's why it was so cool i do like what you said about the internet how do they email each other in this movie it looks like a wheel of fortune screen where there's like six words at a time that's all you can do and it blew our minds back then we could have done a rewatchable this month of just how they got the internet wrong with movies in the 90s and disclosure and this movie in the net like it's just there's a four-year window where they're like the internet we gotta work it in and they have no idea what they're doing with any aspect of it yeah this is up there and it's constantly on the computer and they're in their car on the computer there's like one of those antennas that comes out of the car to get an internet signal the emailing is very strange but what do you have for this category uh i'll go with the phone i had to mention something earlier but i like the phone that turns on a computer new category just for you oh what do we got the fatal attraction guy gets framed a word for original ending that the test audience has hated so much they had to reshoot it in the original version of this movie yeah dr russell collapses and dies during a lecture with about a like a half hour of the movie to go and what happens is ilia is she's doing a lecture and ilia comes from behind and stabs her with his evil cane and it's got poison on it and um and that's how it goes and then the last 30 minutes is the saint just wreaking havoc on everybody john wick style and the test audiences did not like it and they had to do two giant days of reshoots over eight days in december 96 and then another eight days in january 97 that cost two million bucks as they turned it into what you just mentioned and that's why i think that russian ending was in there because he's getting his revenge because in the last 30 minutes he just starts kicking ass yeah i always heard that the end of pretty woman that edward was going to die or something before he goes back and gets vivian and they're like no no no give us a good ending it's the 90s people want this well we just did the goodwill hunting one and gus van zandt was saying that uh he wanted affleck to die in a construction accident right before will went to see about a girl and they like wrote the scene out and they're like this definitely doesn't work let's get rid of this yeah bad ideas no don't do that because then we need to bring you back to the sequel that we never got to yeah well anyway so that happened and then that leads to another category that we never get to um give out that often named after elizabeth shu the elizabeth shu the elizabeth shu is an oxford electrochemist award for most ridiculous casting uh emma russell she's hot she's a heart problem yep and she's making big strides in cold fusion um i i i wrote down i love when hot single woman with unbelievable jobs can't resist a movie hero who's obviously horrible for them yes it's it works every time i'm always in it's a great great building that happens and you're right we've done this a lot lately because yeah you're not in cr we did nicole kidman in days of thunder as a brain surgeon we obviously had roadhouse and kelly lynch is like the 10 she's the local surgeon to stapling up guys from the double deuce in jasper and it's the kelly lynch scale not to say that incredibly beautiful women can have positions like this but it's a very small percentage i don't think the male neurosurgeon is going to be like a legend of the fall brand that's not going to happen either it's not going to look like that we'll see there was the peacemaker had one of these i think nicole kidman might have been in two movies where she had crazy jobs yes yeah she and cluny both together just sultry on the stream they're trying to disable nukes in the middle of new york city i love it it's so rare that we get to give out the award for the actual movie we're doing we're gonna take one more break and we'll do it all right all right what's age the best i'll start us off with crazy wild wild west 1990s russia and then uh post ussr russian villains i was just trying to feel its way out here in the mid 90s and they eventually settle on let's get a guy who looks like the eventual take it to bad guy big beard kind of handsome charismatic and he's gonna have an evil son of the cane let's go um i love it the second i see that guy whatever his name is we'll get to it later he makes me happy he also shows up in eyes wide shot with tom cruise he runs the costume store he's the guy who always runs it um i have one i always like when there's any kind of laser force field you have to navigate to get through to steal something and he has that cool suit that puts his body temperatures like that shit always works i also like when someone says kill him but bring her back alive that sets up a great dynamic and there's always a follow-up line where someone's like he said alive you idiot watch where you're shooting that always happens it's so fun i do love that too uh using catholic paints as aliases yeah great work they have a ku klux klan knights what was that moment out of nowhere it's so weird i kind of like it i think they were like hey are these guys evil enough okay when we do the reshoots can you just do a quick scene just work the ku klux klan in there why just do it don't ask just put it in uh i rewound i was like was that a klan poster what is that doing here i had no idea not a clue but i guess that's just make some evil or something don't know i have watching someone put on cool disguises i just enjoy it russian bad guy crews love it opening credits produced by robert evans yeah baby here we go she had the kind of lips that wouldn't quit uh apparently he was trying to belt this for years and when they finally ended up making it he wasn't involved at all they paid him off to go away but he got to keep his credit oh well bad guys with the property mentioned um cold fusion just i think it had a moment which we'll get to later and then uh runs to an embassy i think it's my favorite which is the best when the embassy is right there and it's like 75 yards just somebody sprinting to the embassy like what other aspects of life are like that where if 75 yards you don't get there you're basically getting killed but not really you're just getting captured i had this under unanswerable bill is this the way it works if i'm in some place with conflict can i just sprint to the u.s embassy and start screaming i'm an american i'm an american and then it comes this game of red rover and you have to like run through them because if i'm screaming i'm american i feel like they would gun me down that's alarming i can't work that way right i'm an american just seems to work it just seems to be the secret secret key to get into the embassy do they know you're american like you have a springsteen t-shirt on or something like i don't know why couldn't russia pretend they were american and get into the embassy because you know they're russians they can't hide that shit you know there's not a chance they're trained to spot those guys anymore what's the best because i want to get to the big kahuna burger award for best use of food and drink no do it do it we covered it so i've been breaking the wine bottle and then bleeding san martino style that would be my pick but i do want to shout out the onion spaghetti and meatballs in russia why is that your order in russia is that in russia or is it in england or england wherever she was it was not a spaghetti and meatballs area or she was in england i guess i think dr emma eats her feelings a little bit she's very lonely and she goes to that restaurant right down the block from her apartment that's like she's like oh emma you want the regulars to get any meatballs again yes please is it like shepherd's pie or something or fish and chips yeah fish and chips like you're in england by the way uh i know you're a kind of wine guy adjacent like i am yeah it's the tour in 1957 and apparently all the wine snobs online did you see this they they say that it stops me it was last drinkable in the mid 80s so him ordering it in 1996 is like you're a decade late so they're odd on this movie loses all credibility i don't give a shit about it but you know that's the kind of thing my mom would have picked up actually i should have made her watch it so that's my bad we should have had that earlier the denothee's benihana word scene scene location i still think it's that river unless you have somewhere else No, unless it's the Rat Race Coke Den, the Frost Beats and Mariachi band. Oh, good one, yeah, one of those. A lot of great scenes in this movie. Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop.
It's either the pumpkin song or Sneaker Pimps, Six Underground. I like how they weave in the Sneaker Pimps. I probably personally love that. It's a little more subtle than Kilmer blasting out his Bose speakers and his Volvo with the pumpkins.
So Sneaker Pimps is cool. Six Underground. Take me, that was awesome. Great song.
The funny thing about him, yeah, totally, him blasting pumpkins, Billy Corgan and Val Kilmer together probably would have lasted about four minutes before one of them was going to be better. two of the all-time. Be careful around those guys, guys. Yeah, I wouldn't go there.
And it's not even like a cool pumpkin song, like something about Gears or Disarge. It's a Cars cover I've never heard of since then. The Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers Award for Best Character Name. I mean, Simon Templar is pretty good, but I really enjoy Ivan Tretiak.
I don't know, that guy could be, he could be a Russian mob boss. He could be the best goalie in the NHL right now. He could be the person who overthrows the government. He could be a wrestler.
What can Ivan Tretiak do? I think he might be in MMA as well. He's fighting Pereira next week. Yeah.
He could fight with Ivan Tretiak because he's a ground game guy and he's going to do it anyway. Tretiak, ground and pound, is lethal, and Joe Rogan's just talking about him. Stand up, he's a little vulnerable, but you get him down. He could be anything.
He could definitely be standing on his head winning the constant lights for the Buffalo Sabres, too. That's a great, great name. Yeah. Butch's girlfriend award.
We link to the film. What do you got? We've had a lot of them already. It has major third act problems, as we know, but when he's not in costume, Simon's not great.
He's not terribly charismatic. He's underplaying it. He's doing this puppy dog love thing. I don't love when Kilmer is just being Kilmer in this movie.
I like when he's dressed up. Is it better if he's just doing Tom Kassianci the whole time? The whole fucking time. Like arrogant, like just super arrogant spy guy with like a frosted hair?
Yeah, he's like, you stole my cold fusion. Like, what's your problem? He goes, you're everyone's problem. I don't like cold fusion because it's dangerous.
It's unsafe. That's what I want. The whole fucking, with 80 years, too. I agree.
I had a week link in a similar area. Val Kilmer, Master of Disguise in this movie. Yeah. You can recognize him every time.
There's not one disguise where you're like, in which a kid gets camed by like a priest and then a two 10-year-olds kiss and one falls to her death. I don't want to see dead kids in the first five minutes of my Val Kilmer movie. What is that? A dog pushes it.
And it's like, okay, if you want to give them the superhero origin backstory, I just need more information then. So there's no color of death and this is why you became a thief? I think so. And listen, when Michael Keenan does Batman and they kill his parents, it's not the opening scene of the movie.
First, he's going to kick a little ass with Batman. I don't want the dead kid to start the movie. It sucks. This is definitely a start the movie seven minutes in.
It's not a bunch of places like Paramount all over the place, but I would have started seven minutes in. The Internet in 97, we mentioned it's an age of the worst. Philip Noyce said afterwards that he made a mistake casting Val Kilmer and then he should have chosen Russell Crowe instead. And I just want to tell him to fuck off.
He chose correctly, maybe directed a better movie. Maybe this is why your career hasn't gotten that great the last 28 years. Maybe look in the mirror a little bit. Well, Noyce, who sounded like Keenan Thiel's sketch, he is just coming off working with Harrison Ford for two straight movies and maybe he liked that experience a little bit better.
Now listen, Bill, let's not pretend that the idea of like a young badass about Russell Crowe. You should just go there. That was one of the four most stunning movies we've done. I love Russell Crowe.
He would have been great in this movie. But I also think it's an important Val movie because all the reasons we talked about at the top, it's such a weird movie. Like if Russell Crowe's in it, it actually has a chance to be a better movie that's probably not as memorable. I know.
It's bad for him after it's not looked down great to blame Val. I mean, you tell me, is this JJ Reddick not losing the playoffs and blaming LeBron? Isn't that like, it's just blaming the players. I like it.
And then we mentioned this earlier, but Kilmer constantly pressing for more disguises. There's so much since then. It hasn't been great. Great point.
Ruffalo, Hannah, Ruben, Eckhart, Joe, were acting. I honestly couldn't find anything. I think there was some underacting. The underacting award would be interesting.
Val Kilmer is the same underacting award. I'm a reach. Kilmer, when he comes out of the freezing water, he's really going for it, but he should be going for it. He's freezing to death.
I, again, Elizabeth Shue, who's probably 35 years old and actually she's never had sex before, kissed a boy in her life in her bathroom fixing her hair and said, this is happening, this is happening. Take it easy. Yeah, that's good. It's a little much.
The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been her support of How to Stake Award. I already gave mine, so if you don't have one, we can move on. Where do you have one? I have How to Stake.
I was going to go Val, but I just all roads lead the shoe for me. That shoe always fits. I think Elizabeth Shue is the greatest movie kisser of all time. I think she's the girl.
She is fucking going for it in this movie. Every time she and Val kiss, it's intense. It's kind of an open mouth. And then I had the pleasure of going down a YouTube wormhole and just going every time she, cocktail, she and Cruz in the water and Cruz is real weird, but there's full tongue and everything.
Yeah, Cruz felt like he got a boner under the water there. They're really going at it. And if you look at her and LaRusso outside the arcade, they're like really young and it looks like it, but big time, like no little tight lip thing. I even watched Leaving Las Vegas when she's kissing someone and drinking himself to death and it's still gorgeous.
Wow, you really did some scouting for this. Yeah, it was just Elizabeth Shue kissing. My computer was like, wow, this stuff's light for you. This is great.
I can handle it. This is PG rated. And I think she is the greatest kisser of all time. She goes for it so much.
I love it. Thank you. Great one. Casting one ifs.
We'll go through this quick. Mid 80s, Pierce Brosnan, allegedly attached, didn't work out. 94, we have Robert Evans, Steve Dowling writing, Sidney Pollack directing. Ray Fiennes offered a million dollars to be in it and pass it.
Oh, similar. Yeah. And Ray Fiennes actually, I have it because it was in, I went and found the piece where he kind of shit on it. He said, this is in a premiere magazine, 1994.
Yeah. He's red hot, Chris Show's coming out. He's in the band. It's like, yeah, I turned down the same.
Quote, we've all seen the sort of sophisticated, smooth tuxedo gent working his way from gambling tables to sports cars, helicopters to beautiful women You love Noyce. Triple crowd of fuck yous. Why are you shitting on things that I like in movies? Who invited you to the party?
Just pass. And say it wasn't for me. That's all you need to say. Sorry, sorry.
You're a little fucking snooty career. You didn't want to jump from a helicopter to a casino table with beautiful women and villains with a bad mustache. Sorry, buddy. Jesus.
That's your business, but somebody else can play the role. I'm glad he didn't win the Oscar. Yeah, he didn't. He lost.
Did you see Bill, like, in the recastables? Did you see Schwarzenegger's name? Was that there? I didn't believe it.
So here's what I believe. So they definitely, Noyce had Mel Gibson. That was for real. And they belted for a couple months and Mel Gibson decided he had just spent a bunch of time away from home for Braveheart.
Didn't want to do it. Passes. Hugh Grant meets with Noyce. Didn't like the director's approach.
Passes. Hugh Grant. And then after that, it's like Kenneth Branagh, Schwarzenegger, all these. I just don't know what, I don't believe it.
You don't believe it on the Cold Fusion. We got to save the Cold Fusion. I just don't see it. He can't even do an American accent.
He's been here 50 years. No. I don't see it. Val Kilmer then turned down Batman.
Robin. Best that guy word. Take it through guy we mentioned. I've never seen Ilya again.
So he's, but in the crew, Face Scars guy, who's been in a couple other movies, who has the big scars on his cheeks. And I swear, I don't even know where he's from, but I swear I've seen him in other stuff and he jumped out to me. Okay. He's in a lot of stuff.
That's our guy, Tommy Flanagan. He's in Braveheart. He's in the game. He's around.
And his character in this movie, it's ridiculous. His character's name is Scarface, which is so on the fucking nose. It's like, I don't even know why they called him that. But you know, I'm sensitive now with that guy ever since Craig got all sensitive and became a little bit of a guy.
I know Tommy Flanagan's name. It's like the Bob Baliband rule, so I don't know if that counts. I know Tommy. I know his name.
It might be Ilya, because I don't know if I ever saw him again, but I would have immediately said Ilya. You know what I'm cool about Ilya? His real name, his first name is Valerie, V-I-E-R-Y, and he goes by Val. So he does two Vals on the same fucking statue.
Double Val. Yeah. You don't see it. Dion Waiter's a word.