The Wild Cards Get Experimental

This episode of the Wild Card Podcast is brought to you by Wild Card Podcast. I'm your host, Jared Eaton, and my co-pilots on this journey to wherever are my good friends, Jeff Curtis. Hello. And the most cunning of linguists.

Rob Lair. Hello. That's you buddy. That's me.

I am a kind linguist. If we have anyone still listening to podcasts after the last episode. I should really apologize but I don't feel bad. Even though your daughter hates you.

They've learned a lot about us. Speaking of learning a lot about us, one thing we enjoy doing on our podcast. Oh, is it time? No.

We don't enjoy doing time while we get to kill us. We enjoy getting to know us. Yeah. It's time.

So every week I ask you guys a question. We share a little bit of ourselves. So this is kind of a continuation of last week's. Oh.

Which I ask you about favorite foods. Right. I want to know favorite smells. Oh, I know.

Any smells you particularly enjoy. I like the smell of chocolate chip cookies personally. I love lavender. That's one of my favorite smells.

Bacon bread. Oh, that's lovely. Bacon bread. Bacon bread.

Baking bread. Fresh bread that's just been cooked. Especially in a bakery if you walk into a bakery. Yeah.

I like the fresh linen air fresheners. I'm a little bit of pine. Oh, I love pine. I have a pretty weak sense of smell.

That smells very strong. Sometimes they get these smells after basically a face plant to a candle to know. Oh, this smells like green. The pine is one I can get.

Now continuing from this, are there any smells that you're almost ashamed to admit? Oh, yes. The city of Chattanooga. I love the smell of it.

It smells like diesel. It smells like burnt. Sorry, you're a fan of gas. The smell of gasoline.

No, I'm really not. It's the I know. They're missing teeth. I don't want to judge.

Jeff is currently helping some marketers over here. Because they have like berry blue, you know, red, berry red, stuff like that. So I understand snip. Not going to eat cheese, right?

Yeah, no, I love that. There was one. I worked at Target for a while after college. And the back room was huge.

Just like almost the way I was within the Target. And there was just this rich. And I can only describe it as like a cardboardy smell. Huh?

I guess not a musty. Yeah. But like a dense cardboardy smell. Because again, my description of smell is probably not the best.

Right. That's what I took in was this cardboardy smell. You like that. I always loved the smell of the first day of school when we actually used chalkboards.

It was something I don't know. It was an outer. It was just sort of permeated the air. And I always dug that smell.

I like the smell of hanging out with smokers while they're smoking. I don't like the smell on my clothes afterwards. And I know it's not good for me. I don't smoke.

Yeah. But I think it's probably because of the memories of hanging out at the art bar after work. But all you're saying is he was bowling alley for me as a kid. I'm always concerned about that because I don't want to bother anybody with the odour.

Well, I promise you. People are bothering you and plenty of other. That's true. That's not the main one.

But I, you know, the offensive cigarette smell odor I'm always worried about. Well, I do. Well, I do. I do.

I do. They can't stand up. I have a lot of old. Yeah.

That was what it was. You walk into an ashtray. But it's the smell of the smoke. It's not the smell of my clothes and all that stuff.

I can't stand up. That's disgusting. But it's the smell while people are smoking around me. Yeah.

I actually enjoy that. When I was a kid, my mother would play bunker. You'd be in the winter, not during the summer. And in the winter she would come home and she would lay down her leather purse.

And I guess in the winter that the smell would really kind of stick to it. And it would just smell like cold and leather and cigarettes. And that smell to me is just beautiful. Rich mahogany and leather bounders.

And leather bound books. So I'm kind of like a classic. I'm usually embarrassed to tell people. So I'm going to share it on a podcast.

Of course. I'm probably solo in this but my goodness. I love the smell of urinal cakes. You're alone with this.

Absolutely love the smell of a fresh urinal cake. I understand it. I can't. I can't abide.

I would love to describe the smell in another way and be like, I love this smell. It's minty and fresh. But I have no idea what the smell is. Apart from when I'm peeing in this urinal.

It smells pink. It smells pink. It's almost like a pink sweetness. I don't know.

It's I understand it. I just can't. I don't expect people to be like, oh yeah. I'm sort of like, Oh, God.

He's weird. I'm also going to be honest. Maybe I'm not ballsy enough to admit that I enjoy that smell as well. Maybe maybe Jared's.

Or maybe he just don't enjoy the smell. It could also be that. It could also be that. It could be that I'm alone.

So since to get a. No. You have to shove your pee on it. And the pee elicits the reaction that releases the smell.

Maybe it's a combination of smell. You're in the face. You're in the face. You're in the face.

You're in the face. You're in the face. You're in the face. Well, you're really enjoying the smell of your own urine.

Accentually. It's not like eating other things. It's like lee's chicken. It's like chicken and pizza.

It's like barbecue sauce. I wonder how many are listening to it. They probably invited a friend on the line. You've got to listen to that.

But you've got to listen to that. That version was the best goddamn thing we've ever done. It was beautiful. It's my equipment job.

Commending Jeff Curtis for the stills. It's a one time thing I think. I sincerely hope. All right.

Well, you know, we are in a sometimes we like to point out what time here it is in case anyone's listening to this. Oh, can I fall? It is not fall. But it is back to school time.

Yeah. So you both have children. I'm a teacher. You talked to the meetings.

I don't lurk lonely halls that smell. You know, dining school. Yeah, and I'm off. Rob, I'm just working around.

I'm on the lee people lurking in the hall, they're sitting around. You're dancing around. Well, there's like 16 schools around here. That's good.

That's good. So do you guys have any excitement to sleep with me? I don't Kaleb's been sick. Yeah, Kaleb's second day.

I'm in a three degree temperature. Thank you. He's feeling. I heard he's biology teacher.

He's a biology teacher. Yes, biology teacher's is a dick. Cause I wrote because of biology teacher. And I was like hey Kaleb's biologie teacher said, then he loses a pinky, I've got important things to teach.

You're not there. Yeah, my son Right, right. It's kind of worth finishing You've got three other fingers and a thumb to do that. I know I know you he might copy another body part Well, it's likely that my son will get through sophomore biology Yeah I have zero idea.

Well, as anyone who was ever first left I didn't hurt me my I was not sure why I was not okay now that starting middle school this year Yeah, she's been excited and nervous about starting to go she's writing the bus for the first time She's been worried about writing the bus because she's heard all these horrible things. We've always walked in the past So some people just look around schools. Yeah, some people in red man I see so two weeks ago, you know, they do the orientation you have to drop off medical records and run all that stuff like that So, you know TK sewn what do I construction friends are building? All right, you know, you construction needs to be done That's a good time to do it and so they said okay We're orientation or and this was the day before orientation when we had to pick up her schedule and check out her locker And right so they said go to the back of the park in the back of the school and enter through the gym Oh, that's where the pool is no, it's not it's fucking not where the pool not here anymore.

Oh, no, there's a fucking pool Maybe the pool makes a plan to the story. All right, so I go to the back of the school Yeah, I've been inside this school twice. Okay, I've been to the office from the front and I've been into what they call the e-pack from the front Which I never heard of the e-pack and they said go to the e-pack when we're supposed to go over last year and find out information about Oh, what the fuck is the e-pack and where is it? Isn't that the middle school?

I had to find out this information because in Kentucky people assume you know more than you know Well, they think you know where the e-pack is that what the fuck is an e-pack I've never been to TK stone before I think it's through the lobby into the left it is I Was I didn't know where it was I didn't I'd never heard this name not one person in my life since I've moved to Kentucky I'd ever mentioned the term e-pack right and it's written on the analogy him I think the e-pack so I Don't go for the total two times I have been to TK stone. Yeah, then I have to go around to the back of the school Well, okay, I take that back when we first moved here madly took swimming lessons in the in the bowl So I knew where the pool was I swam in that but so three less weeks so three times I've been so anyway, I go to back to the back of the gym on to the back of TK stone which is connected with morning side Elementary at once huge long complex. No, I was morning side for a few months I parked in the parking lot and there's a door that's it interiors. I walked over to that door Yeah, but I couldn't enter there because it was from morning side and they were doing other stuff in there They said I had to enter through a different door, but they didn't know which door home then I walk over to the Cafeteria door because they had at least a sign on it in the windows and that was locked and there's someone else looking around trying to figure out How to get into this fucking building that was right then so So she called the office she called the office and they told her to go on to the other side that the entrance to the gym Was on the other side of the pool so we went around pool I tried every single freakin door on the way around this pool get to the other side of the pool try all the doors There's no fucking door open.

There's no there's no I don't know where the gym is or how do I know where the gym is there No windows on the back of this building. There's no sizing Jim There's no and so she calls again and they say yeah go all the way down to the end of the building watch standing there near the pool Yeah, yeah, and down at the end of the building. I see no doors I see a couple alcos that looked like someplace the parking lot more. Yeah, yeah, where the kids smoke So I walk out so we walk all the way down there and there's these recess doors You don't know there's doors there until you go through this recess Yeah, and there's finally there's a door that's open that leads into the gym no sign saying it or here, right?

So I go in there's the a couple of ladies from the PTO and the other things I'm very user. I'm very calm. I'm very polite. Okay.

I'm like now. I can tell no I have no I say I Didn't know where the door was there's no sign. I was looking around all over the place outside They said oh I'm as did you really need put up a sign and they said we'll tell someone about that We're just yeah, we're just here. Yeah, we're just here.

No man. Yes. We're just the opposite and people all right So, you know I do I feel out the stuff that I need to do including the piece of paper that says how is madness transportation going to be Taking place this year. Yeah, is she traveling by bus is she car rider?

How's she getting just to it? I would like to write and so I checked the box saying that she's writing the bus But then I then I asked them well, how will the bus know to pick her up? And they said well, they'll know by this piece of paper But I want to make sure cuz I you know she never written the bus But I'm not this because we walk to school. Yeah, they all right So I went specifically specifically into the office and asked them how will they know that my daughter is writing the bus?

And they said you fill out that she and I said yes, and they said well anyone standing in front of the house the bus will pick up Coverting to me and they said but they said me up Actually open house. Yeah, they said at the open house that the transportation person would be there and I could talk to him Okay, I'll wait for the open house and talk to the I filled out the form that supposedly let them know that they need to put her on this And so you know so then we tried out her locker and she she got the go we We was able to open it we bought all of our classrooms and so that she'd be ready for an after they she went to orientation and Amazingly they had some signs up, but they're letting people into the cafeteria that they do the next day Was there a wrong sir food? No, that's just they said oh maybe that would be an easier interest for people to come in because people can see the frickin door But anyway, yeah, listen to you right they made a sign and I were like this guy this guy came in he was large and angry He said no, I was calm. He said I'm not calm now, but I was calm I think exactly what he said was excuse me bitches.

I'd like to see a sign on that I did not I did not say that I was I was calm. I was a calm parent good. That's good So so so at the open house we went and you know, we're meeting all of our teachers right and and I go specifically and I Find the transportation guy and I say my daughter's riding the bus this year and he said where do you live? I said we live on Elgarado drive.

Oh, no, you should have told people that now. I'll be here Everybody listen to this part Anyway, so I told him hey, so okay well the bus will be there at 650 it'll be bus number three it'll drop her off at 330 Yeah, I said okay, so he and he said but it's a new bus driver Oh, she's driving this week so when she gets on the bus at school to go home have a remind him where she lives Yeah, well, he's gonna be there to pick up in the morning, right? And he said yes, he'll be there Yeah, right? I think all right, so all right, so there's they come so not yet Oh, I've got one more bitching yet, okay, so then you know as we go through the classrooms and meet all of her teachers Yeah, you know her choir teacher.

I guess is also the choir teacher at the high school. So she wasn't on top Yeah, that's fine. I have no problem with that. I understand that it's the same school system that does about it But we went but here's my here's my issue Okay, she we went to where the choir room is which is also the band room Yeah, and they should at least have had a sign saying you're the choir teacher isn't here She's at the high school open house, so you don't so she won't be able to meet her You can't get a little round for you So you don't wait around in line to meet the band teacher for 20 minutes to find out that the choir teacher isn't there And you can't get a copy of this ability of the civilist There was a sign on the door saying that there's a choir syllabus But not where to get it or anything else right so you know We spent 20 minutes standing in this long ass line of people talking to the band Band director only to not have a choir director to talk to whereas if they put up a sign or notice of any kind This person is not here.

We wouldn't have wasted that time So really what you're saying is e-town and a pimp in schools is lacking in signs So and I don't know this person and I'm not saying they're a bad person I'm actually like a choir teacher. That's one of her favorite teachers so far in the school year So I'm not bad now that you're I'm just I'm irritated. I understand what's this course is named. All right, so so Wednesday So school starts Wednesday, right?

Yeah, so we were told that the bus is gonna pick man I know at 650. Yeah, so I had to dream that night that the bus came early and we missed it so I got up I got up. We're waiting outside. I'm waiting outside before bad as waiting out that make sure we don't miss this buzz I'm out there.

I'm out there like at 20 of waiting for this bus. She comes out at a quarter of are you in a bathroom? No, I'm just all I want to picture in a picture. He's wearing a fair skin On top of it a girl who just moved into the neighborhood waiting down on the corner down there Yeah, and so there they're waiting she keeps she and I then had met during orientation So they're texting back more than she keeps saying oh, I saw the bus well There's all kinds of buses going home with heights, right?

You know, right so we kept waiting and so it's it's now 10 of now it's 7 now it's 7 10 now it's 7 10 now It's 7 15 now it's 7 20 now it's 7 25. I'm okay. I guess I'm driving into school today Yeah, so I drive her and the other girl who was waiting her father asked me if I could drive her at the same time I was out. Yeah, okay.

I'll take them off. So I drove them to school and so with could you get inside the building? We should go inside the building, but so I let them off I just walked away into the building and Madam was going to go into the office and tell them that the bus never picked her up And so she went into the office and told them that the bus never picked them up and according her They look at some list to see if she was on the list, but they didn't tell her whether or not she was on the list But we think she's not well. She is now, but so So when she comes home, you know, she has her I'm with a bus drop at home eventually eventually the bus dropped off at home So okay, she's got I bought her an iPhone a couple years ago because she goes through rehearsals like that I love that So I was using the fine my iPhone out the track how she heard journey home Yeah, and I was texting her back and forth and so the bus comes to Clifford Street, which is one street over It's not all the streets between West Dixie and Clifford right and Saint John goes up to home with Heights and then it goes to Woodland and all this houses up there And now they're still riding this bus so pretty much passes you right completely ignores this one last street on the on this entire block Yeah, so you know I that's there to her and said well Did you tell the bus driver where you live and she said no I forgot so she went to the bus driver So she gets home about four oh and so then I I Spoke with bus driver said you didn't show up this morning.

Yeah, and he said well she wasn't on my list and I said wake up tomorrow, right? And he said yes, I said what time are you coming and he said I'm coming early I'll be there at a quarter of okay. All right quarter seven. I think there's a canary here So on Thursday morning he showed up at 20 of yeah, and she got home at four What even though he knew where she lived he's still just ignored the street drove all the other streets right and then came back After he dropped off everyone else is like they added the street to their to their their list of streets But then put it anywhere near any of the other kids that are dropping out so she got within a street of home Yeah, I had to spend another 35 minutes on this fucking bus.

Yeah, so when he dropped her off Thursday Right, I spoke with him again Because again, I was tracking the whole problem on my phone and what you got the home would I say? Hey, she'll be home soon right now. Then he took off all God knows where So I told him on Thursday. I told him you know if you when you know what I'd have to get off your bus It's okay with me she can walk from there and he made a good suggestion There's a there's a stop sign a street closer to my house and he said that she could drop her off there If I wanted I said that would be even better.

Yeah, so Friday She got home at 325 because she got off the bus and walked from that stop sign But we don't have to go out and beat anybody, but it's we can't but it's one fucking street over It's like why would you put that last street? You got to every other street by it the last street on your on your what's what's funny to me is when you think about school buses Yeah, if it's something you need to use there's no drop off closest No, but if you're driving somewhere the bus stops at everyone's house every single person That's unless you're on the bus unless you're on the bus and you get more past I have a long history of my kids being bust until the last few years where when we went to when my kids went to central Which is so close to my work. We would just drive them there But Caleb for some reason nobody ever stopped to pick him up Like they would just pass him the bus would pass him then we'd call the garage more like what what is not that it's came So no no no people people look at him and they say he comes from Betsy Yeah, that's probably like we don't need his time on the bus no It happened every year and it happened often even with bus drivers that they would just pass him by as he's standing out there Yeah, it was totally bizarre my mom always don't be work on her just a lot of it works I get there like an hour early Oh man, then now that the bus is picking her up. She's still getting to school like it's seven ten seven twenty seven So it's not till it's early ten of eight.

Yeah, it's like so there's a lot of jackass around time Perfect homework time. You're awake. Yeah, probably not I don't But welcome to walk out podcast. This is a race.

Yeah, Jeff today. Oh, I'm not done. Oh shit I feel that for being home All right, you know and maybe this wouldn't have bothered me if this bus had picked her up Yeah, but it didn't and if the buzz had brought her home earlier than four But it didn't right so maybe I would have been much more calm when I received like 15 pages of rules You know, I'm all these different classes that I'm supposed to sign that in my opinion could have been handed out to me Anytime in the last two weeks when I had to go to the school. Yeah, yeah, yeah It would it would have been a lot more useful than suddenly being bombarded with all this shit that I have to read Well, so I sat down and read it and I'm signing and filling us up and then I get to the choir syllabus and and oh my god I mean, I don't know this person madman likes her a lot.

Yeah, according to Kim She's a great person and she probably is I don't know her So all I have to go by is this syllabus and her not being there at the open house, right? Okay, neither What neither of which is an indication of anything but this syllabus is not her fault Spins five pages talking about unexcused absences what constitutes an unexcused absence and You know, there's a little bit about what they're gonna be graded on but mostly it be there be there if we have afters if we have Rearso for our concerts. You have to be there. You have to be there for the rehearsals I can't take into account every community actively going on.

I can only I can only plan around school events I'm like, okay fine It'd be one thing you could have told me the most important part of that in one page not making me re-five page of every single In fraction that some kid has done in the last 10 years that you feel like you have to explain in this thing Because by the time we got done reading this I want to say fuck you right sure. It's like, okay. Oh my god And then and then the other thing that they're that's irritating me. Yeah, I think I know they're taking me a lot more than it's They're taking that okay is When they get to school before they do anything else they have to stand there for a dress code inspection.

Wow. Oh, that's a little much We're supposed to just we're supposed to our first period to look glance through we police it For me, I'm like so I'm supposed to like check out everything else dude. No, no Someone else can worry about that and so she has Jim her first period she gets there And so before they can do anything else there has to be a dress code inspection this dress code in my opinion is Incredible is incredibly on owners in the first place. Yeah, especially if you're a girl And it all seems to be focused on making sure that the girls aren't dressing in any sexual way so that the boys don't get horny Okay, there's a big issue.

There's a big issue exactly that we discuss often in our household about teacher boys not to be dicks Yeah, and you know, they're good boys. Yeah, yeah We were awful right I never sexually assaulted someone because they're clothing No, so you know you can learn to control yourself. It's not the other person's not willing to dress in a way that doesn't make you sexually Why give a boy yet another excuse to to be with Civius about to mention Teenage boys are sexually frustrated 24-7 because they're going through puberty and their penis is hard for no reason They can this earth I think there's a reason you could put someone in a hajib in front of them Is that a word? Yeah, if you could do this and boys would still be like I wonder what's under that exactly so horny all the time Yes, they are responsible.

I mean they've got horrible There's our lives in the corner. It's like the door to have to go down to the to your neither You can't wear leggings unless they're just sure or dress over it covering your butt right? I mean there's things I can understand not letting people wear things that are perceived as gang colors and that course that makes it but Certain point where things might be all cross-alike, but some of the stuff is simply about our kids are going through puberty So let's let's make sure that they don't have any right right nothing looks can be a scansett Where everything is sexual regardless of how you right? It's what it's most is though that saying this we're instilling this for the boys sake The girls have to conform to this dress code so that the boys are can control themselves right well the boys need to learn The children to control themselves and not be fucking animals is that how about that wait until your my age to become a fucking animal?

I just want to see if I can do it It has nothing to do with me I'm hurting for you and the people that they're gonna have to deal with your anger and through most of that that rent I could not help but just think French fries. I really want french fries right now I haven't eaten today and then I was thinking I could put some cheese on or sour cream I love mustard a little mustard on whatever I like what Jeff goes on a rant there is welcome We've been let Jeff get a word in for it This makes this makes up for the the while crack the code so what we typically do each week on here Typically in addition to finding places for ants is one of us will do a report or lead a discussion facilities on some topic or just wing it or wrong So I have a question for you today. Yeah, it's kind of a two-part is there right and wrong answer always Okay, do you know who your regard in is? The spoons with his mind that was your your a geller.

That's what I was thinking Jeff was correct Okay, the after the garden was the first man in space. Oh the Soviet yeah Now imagine what we're gonna get into that's not the topic today It's just looking into it. He was the person of the guinea pig to find out what would happen to a human body in space Because before he went up there we didn't know what might happen to our brains or our eyeballs or our blood That's true. So the question I'm asking you now.

This is the true leading in the topic question is no is human experimentation ethical huh? It I would say depends on if the human you're experimenting on has agreed to be experimented on like Yuri Joe's to go into space knowing that we're going to find out this stuff Giving somebody an injection to see what happens without them saying I agree right well I agree that not not volunteering or wanting it is always on it Hold forcing some on it But there's a difference between try on this mascara and see if it burns your eyes rather than let me hold this blowtorch up Your face and see how long it takes for your skin to melt yeah, so what we're talking about today is kind of the history of human experimentation Oh looking at the lemmas that humans have faced over time Okay, I have very little time I'll spare 11 more I'm saying I still want friends Questions are things like do the ends justify the means is it okay to experiment on humans if the goal is saving more human lives It ultimately Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one I wish I wish I wish I was So how do you think we first began to understand human anatomy? Did da Vinci cut up the whole is gonna come with 2300 years ago? This is BC is it any joke no Greek physicians Herrophilus of course it was the Greece and heresisestritus Yeah, got to see the inside of human bodies when they obtain permission to perform live dissections or bit of sections on criminals Yeah, but not from the criminals no no No, no, but that's a thing we're gonna come back to a lot is You always have the right to not be vivisite while you're a lot Yeah, okay, but you know how else are we gonna know what's going on all up in here in the body Yeah, but once you come up in alive back then That's what I would figure there's a Take care of You can see how that would be controversial other might be something who'd be a little upset with that the criminals definitely But other people to a little upset with this so for nearly a thousand years human experimentation human dissection was one of those controversial areas of science Because for centuries people believe that looking inside the human body was taboo.

Okay. Well, that makes sense I guess I'm created these bodies so we're not supposed to fill with them right it wasn't until a 15th century that Michael Angel I don't know that's a mother scientist made secret anatomical drawings of cadavers and they have to keep a secret because the law would The Italian government absolutely so they're doing these these these drawers become criminals and then they would be That's not Secrets I've heard that they have secrets. I don't remember where I heard it. Well, you know things get around the telephone game.

Yeah So human having wasn't taught in any university of the mid-sixteenth century So and then health and health and health and taught that that's not I'm almost certain and it wasn't until England's murder act of 1762 You could murder someone he's that person every year the purge I love that First time that position were allowed to perform autopsies I can average or living on kritals So autopsie means they're dead so we're still we're still cutting open well out no no no no no Autopsie means they're dead. Oh hey you said autopsy. Yeah, so 1762. We're finally allowed to cut open the human body Thank God after they're dead, but it's still only on kritals You couldn't you couldn't do it could ever on like because it's still that kind of taboo Boy the blacksmith was had no the fear of having his body desecrated Absolutely not I mean I don't know the main role Probably he was probably This is the gateway to this concept of human experimentation.

Okay now we have the answer to what is where we can start to kind of figure out how it works Right now it all works together. It's like a machine like a body body body machine. It's from schoolhouse, bro. Can't reveal this.

Yeah, we have the technology gentlemen Man I'd say Some 60 million And I was just thinking about Steve Rogers to Steve Rogers and his well-being Captain Steve Rogers. Yeah, and his whatnot some pieces. Let's talk about Dr. Edward Jenner.

Okay This is about 30 years after the England's murder act, okay? So we're finally kind of accepting it that we can start working with humans again We are this One of the most famous and important examples of human experimentation Actually, I did talk to you guys about Scott once before so you might remember the story a little bit This is also the same time span that then Helsinki was done great That's right. I've been in college around that time and I believe Jack the Ripper Yeah, I saw that animal house is about yeah It's about these animals Jack the Ripper something about mashed potatoes. Yeah, and gravy and don't lose you Yeah, I'm gonna try those those those those all those things so in 1796 English doctor Edward Jenner was seeing a lot of cases of small Fuses in relation to Bruce Jenner and Kylie and Kylie and the woman version of Bruce Jenner Which is fine.

I'm not making a judgment any turn into one. Yeah, that's what I was thinking You know how bad his haircut wasn't the 70s though. It was good for the 70 You know that he was in the same movie as village people oh Oh That horrible movie I've never seen it out of starring wrong with that I'm scared of that and I'm scared of Xanadu as well, but they did do the milkshake of that milkshake Oh, do you not enjoy being interrupted? Excuse me.

He did you have is there any chance we're gonna finish this next podcast? No absolutely Any chance I'm gonna start I'm gonna bring a swirgan on the air horn Wow Lots of Big problem Inner cities dinner knew this this folk adage that people who had cowpox get smallpox Cowpox was a disease similar to smallpox that milk made milk made with your hands when they're looking cows Yes, if the cow had sore on its udders and milk made was using her hands and milk a cow she would get you know Pustules on her hands and the cheese would be absolutely So jitter saw a milk made as a doctor who had disease and he decided to take a sample of the pustule Right he's got a sample of the cowpox Does it spread like poison ivy like if you get yourself well It could only be an open woman. Okay, so you're milking a cow with cowpox But you're still using the milk the milk is doesn't have the External thing I think there are people in the 1790s. Well, they know that's true.

They didn't have pasteurization They know what was bad or not So Jenner's takes the sample and then his gardeners eight-year-old son walks by so dinner got the idea I know cowpox can be spread from the counter human I wonder if he's right from human to human So he takes this eight-year-old boy cuts his arm Insert some puss Jenner Jenner the child got mild it ill yeah fever, but nothing nothing too serious They went out a couple days this whole gender that cowpox candy spread human human So whatever is causing this disease it can go human human But the big question was about smallpox. Yeah can cowpox stop it is it true that milk maids won't get smallpox There's only one way to find out he takes the eight-year-old boy again and affects a smallpox. I would hang Jenner Yeah, that's that's because he's that kills people Wasn't volunteering the parents don't know it's a parent's No, he's doing it. I mean this is a man scientist this guy needs to go to jail But he hurts my well, we're getting to well Well luckily the boy had no symptoms nothing at all happened He's not done Freddy Krueger he went through the whole neighborhood including And he tested his own infant son Eventually the medical community and others accepted Jenner's discovery and credit Dr.

Jenner with discovering the first vaccine Which comes from the Latin for the word cow vodka so we're vaccine comes from his test with house They credited his um a madman and they didn't put him in jail. No, I mean he saved millions of lives Yeah, but he's going around affecting children without the children's permission The parents are here. This is a sticky way. I would give him credit and throw him in jail great job We're gonna use this discovery here.

Here's your oranges. Here's your lord The biggest problem that I have with this is once smallpox was cured vampirism was on the rise and there was no way to cure Vampirism outside of blood trade We talked about this in our consumption episode there the vampirism is If he had been wrong, yeah, he would have been better. He would have been spreading smallpox to these can you carriers? Right spreading it everybody in the community Well the scariest part of it is that this one person with smallpox In fact this next person with smallpox and the next person and then they're all vampires and you have a neighborhood full of vampire children That's when you call that scary if you've ever seen say on slot they'll sit at your window and tap on it and be like No, no, I wouldn't mind the house.

You don't know if I'm in the house I can't find anything unless you invite them. They came to the house and they were still scary the image haunts me at night I'm like, why are you sitting in the house? We can talk through the window. I don't want to be out.

I want to be out spreading our vampirism in smallpox another example of human experimentation This has to do with a mary and sims the first vampire No, it was arguably the most famous American surgeon of the 19th century and today He's generally dollars as a father of modern gynecology. Oh, oh His dominance began I don't think you've made it kind of like a sprout. He didn't have he was down there already I'm not sure if he was down there and there was the spreaders. Let's get to what he did the spreaders were made out of wood back then So going to the gynecologist was really scary.

It was like I like how he's talking like Ron has experience I went to the gynecologist in the 1800s. I went to college for 17 years They were like big popsicles this these spreaders or like the salad dogs They were like salad tongs like but they were both spoons and you would insert them and then you would open them and close them and make Flapping noises or applause applause some kind of colleges sounded like applause So what what sims actually did was developed a surgery for helping women after they'd given childbirth to a score a collapsed uterus And for repairing these these terrors called fistulas Between the bladder of the giant during an intense chobry so he developed the surgeries to repair these techniques How did he do this you might ask I did I asked him so I thought he might have asked out and I was like He tested this techniques on slave woman often without anesthesia even after those drugs were available I read a lot of things about sims some of them were saying like how awful it was he doesn't some were saying these women volunteered Because they were because they didn't burn and were having issues and he said he was gonna So they were like so it's kind of like a people see both sides of it well if he's saving many many women from these difficulties By women who were showing up here's the thing if they've given birth and they were having these problems and he was offering to Try something that might or might not work and they knew that yeah, and they said yes, and I have no problem I'm not sure. I don't have the ultimate. Well, he said slave that to me Me neither master said okay, actually do your experiment with my property and to further that he offered on one woman over 30 times Before he was able to fix it so it would matter if he just wanted to keep going in an experimenting It just didn't work whatever he was it sometimes it didn't work, but she lived through all of those But we got an anesthesia ah can you imagine?

Nope, I got an icon imagine so you know there are many cases like this And these are just a couple of more famous scientists who were trying to improve quality of life or people right methods were questionable And so it begs the question is this okay is human experimentation? Okay, I'm of this firm belief that the ends do not justify the means yeah ever yeah It's the means that justify how you get to the end and the end don't justify all the evil things that you might do to get there To your ends by the end the ends is there were so there were just a general Jeff said something we're never gonna get to the better ways in this one before I hit on one more thing that happened before I got to hell over game today and that's something I talk about my students a lot of testing on criminals We talked about it earlier in 1920 a resident physician in San Quentin prison in California Probably to revitalize older men by implanting them with the testicles of younger men or livestock. How they work out? Not well, but they're criminals so they can't say no right in 1946 under the guise of public health Hundreds of Guatemalan prison inmates were deliberately infected with syphilis by United States researchers Oh like like you needed to affect them already male prisoners were sometimes infected via direct injection right into the penis Oh, it's still other prisoners got sick after visits from prostitutes who were all purposely invented and yet other prisoners got sick watching them and sort of None of these researchers were asked for their consent nor research should be put in prison or where the researchers scientists They were just looking to get their kicks when we think of horrible experiments for young beings Is there a group we most often think of the memory target?

Well, okay, I apologize Yeah, I understand in terms of those of the subjects I mean the testers is there a group that we often think of testing on humans Frank and Simon doctor Frank and Simon that's not a group that's an individual fictional care. He's not a fictional care You live in Austria Now we're getting close During World War two a number of German positions conducted painful often deadly experiments on thousands of concentration With other consent on medical experimentation carry out during the third Reich is often divided into three categories There's category consists of experiments aimed at facilitating the survival of German military personnel who when our soldiers live longer In Dauchau Physicians from the German Air Force and the German experimental institution for aviation conducted high altitude experiments using a low pressure chamber To determine the maximum altitude from which screws of damage aircraft should prepare suitability So how does the human body to take trauma in these altitudes or these chambers towards them? Sign is there often carried out freezing experiments using prisoners to find effective treatment for hypothermia Aimed at developing and testing pharmaceuticals and treatment methods for injuries of illnesses which during military and occupation personnel Encourate in the field at many German concentration camps scientists tested immunization compounds for the prevention of treatment of contagious diseases Including malaria, typhus, tuberculosis, typhoid, fever, yellow fever and infectious hepatitis. How do they test these?

You got an effect on the hospital and see if these things cure them. The um, I'm getting germs out my best. Orovans Breck was the site of bone grafting experiments and experiments to test the efficacy of newly developed drugs Not Zweiler and Soshrinhausen, prisoners were subjected to fostein and mustard gas. You're really good at that.

You're going to German. I'm concerned. Bet you are. You should be.

Are we discussing whether the answer is to fight the mean? We're not there. We're not there. The third category of medical experimentation is to advance the racial and ideological tenets of the Nazi world.

The most famous were the experiments of Joseph Mingel. Mingel conducted medical experiments. Mingel conducted medical experiments. He went to Brazil.

He went to Italy. Honestly, I'm not making that out. I think he did that. He's trying to turn prisoners eyes blue.

He conducted medical experiments on twins. What? The boys from Brazil. That's the story.

That's the motivational story. Yeah. You also developed. I'm experimenting in Brazil.

Serological means blood plasmic experiments on Romanes or gypsies. Romanes. In order to determine how different races with stobarious contagious diseases. As if racism.

But that's the whole thing. The whole regime was based on separation of races. The way they did can never be good because they're not doing it for the benefit of the entire human. The research of Auguste Hertz at Strasburg University also intended to establish Jewish racial inferiority.

He was doing research to show that. To prove the inferiority. Which is not science. Obviously all of this is horrible.

But even from the scientific method, the people who were torturing people, they had science-driven method in their mind. Here's how I'm going to show this. But this guy was just, here's what I'm going to prove. Which is not how science should be.

Right. So obviously all this is terrible. But that's not horrible. It is literally horrible.

Other groups of experiments meant to further not see racial goals where a series of sterilization experiments under taken primarily Auschwitz and Ralph's group. There, science has tested a number of methods in their efforts to develop an efficient and expensive procedure for the mass sterilization of Jews, Roman other groups. Not see leaders considered to be racially or genetically undesirable. Yeah.

And again, Nazis are terrible. But it was happening in Japan and German camps, the Japanese were doing it also in the United States. And we're going to come back to the United States in a moment in a particular region. And are not taking the high ground really.

Well speaking of the high ground. The Nuremberg Code. Okay. Have you heard of this before?

I've heard of it but I'm not familiar. Yeah, and that's what we'll get into. It's kind of back to what Jeff was talking about earlier. The origin of the Nuremberg Code began in pre-world War II German politics.

And that's why it's important to me that we don't just say Germans. It was a particular party and they forced Germans to bend their will. Well, it's this whole nationalist movement. Yeah.

This fascist nationalist movement that was happening here. Yeah, thank God that's died, right? Right. So around 1930s and 40s the use of racial hygiene was supported by some in the German government in order to create an area in race.

And to exterminate those who didn't fit their criteria. Racial hygiene extremists merged with national socialism, the use of biology to accomplish their goals of racial purity, core concept of the Nazi ideology. Right. And that's what the third record.

Exactly. However, there were many Germans who were vocally opposed to this idea and criticism began to spread. In response to the criticism of unethical human experimentation, the right government issued guidelines for new therapy and human rights. And human experimentation in Weimar Germany.

So that even this time in this time of Nazism, there were some Germans who were like, here's how we need to treat people. Right. This was the beginning of ethics in human experimentation. The guidelines were based on beneficence and non-molephicence, but also stressed legal doctrine of informed consent.

You were saying, you've got to know what you're doing. Yeah, you've got to know what you're doing. And it's got to be for the good. Not for hurting people.

The guidelines clearly distinguish the difference between therapeutic and non-therapeutic research. For therapeutic purposes, the guidelines of live administration without consent only in dire situations. But for non-therapeutic purposes, any administration without consent was strictly forbidden. However, the guidelines from Wehrnigated by Hitler.

Of course. Of how we can test people with consent or without consent in these situations. But I want to point out that this code that we're coming to of how we treat people started in Germany. Which I think is just incredible.

After World War II, a series of trials were undertaken to hold members of the Nazi party responsible for a multitude of war crimes. The trials were approved by President Harry Truman in 1946 and were led exclusively by the United States. They began on December 9, 1946 in Nuremberg, Germany. Who was the Nuremberg trial?

In one of the trials, which became known as the Doctors' Trial, German physicians responsible for conducting unethical medical procedures on humans during the war were tried. These focused on physicians who conducted inhumane unethical human experiments and concentration camps. In addition to those who were involved in over three and a half million sterilizations and citizens. And maybe 1947, while the trials were being held, six points defining legitimate medical research were submitted to the Council for War Crimes.

Three judges in response to that advice for the prosecution adopted those points and had it for their own. These ten points became what we know as the Nuremberg Code. So these are medical practices that will be in the best interest of people. So I'm going to give you a few examples of what was in the Nuremberg Code.

The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. You have to wait. We can't test on people if they don't want it. The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, un-precurable by other methods or means of study and not random or unnecessary nature.

If we can learn it without testing on people, we should do it that way. Some of these say things like, if we can test on animals first, we must do that. The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental memory. Why do we have to write this down?

I know, I know, but still to this day. The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. During the course, the experiment, the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end. And finally, during the course, the experiment, the scientists in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage if he has probable cause to believe in the exercise of good faith, superior skill, and careful judgment regarding him, that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death of the subject.

So this was really the first time that scientists were held to ask for what they were doing. And so during the war, we developed these tenets, these ten principles that are called the Nuremberg Code. It's kind of sick that we have to go to war before we can develop these tenets. Well, sadly, we're not done yet.

After the passing of the Nuremberg Code, you would think that doctors would get their acts together and be sure that all subjects gave consent. But many in the United States believe the code only mattered in cases of war. Boom and prison populations come out with a rise of pharmaceutical and health care industry led to tons of corporately and federally funded experiments on prisoners. What was going on in the 70s and 80s?

Absolutely. You think after the Nuremberg Code, you're like, oh, well, we've got this now. We've got to follow these rules. We're like, oh, it's for Germans.

That's only for war. These are my tests. I can do whatever I want still. So some examples of human experimentation following the Nuremberg Code.

Some of these are, as discussed in the Nuremberg Code, in 1963, Dr. Chester Southem injected cancer cells around 20 elderly and infirm patients to see if their bodies would reject the cancer cells like normal patients do. The patients were not as permissioned nor were they told what was happening to them. And they died shortly thereafter.

Well, I think the most of the bodies did reject the cancer cells. Oh, they did. Well, because cancer cells, in general, are your bodies themselves. Right.

So your body recognizes as you, so it's allowed to continue proliferating and growing. Whereas if I inject you with someone else's cancer cells, your body knows this isn't you and will attack it. But your body's immune system doesn't work on cancer cells because it's like, oh, this is wrong. Right.

Right. Right. I don't recognize what it's bad because it's an issue. Right.

And that's the thing. That's the big thing. That's the big thing. Around the same time in the early 60s, it was discovered that researchers were infecting mentally disabled patients with viral hepatitis at the Willowbrook institution.

Well, there's a whole thing. Well, I could spend an hour, I was about to introduce an episode going on about that. It's treating the mentally ill and some of the situations that you're involved in. A drug called the Amiglobulin.

So we did find a treatment. Not here. There's treatment for hepatitis. We're eating blood.

Like radiated blood. A little bit on that side. But the facility was shut down because the conditions were so inconvenient. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Well that's just a joke. OK, so again, one of that is a lot of things I'm going to talk about. I think you will particularly enjoy federally funded experimentation.

Thanks guys. All these people do this all the time. And if you don't enjoy it, you'll enter it. Uhh, I'll make up some bullshit in the form.

You actually will like it. OK. Because we're moving away from doctors performing tests on their own to federally funded human experimentation. Pass experimentation.

And that makes it OK. All this like LSD and the well water and stuff like that. Yeah. Kind of like that.

So we're getting in September 26, 1950 when we'll back in time. The crew of a U.S. Navy mine superships spent six days spraying the bacteria, serratio miccini. Into the air, about two miles over the northern California coast.

So they're spraying bacteria over the coast. What was the end game? The project was called Operation Sea Spray and its aim was to determine the susceptibility of a big city like San Francisco to a bio-evident attack by terrorists. What?

Well I'm sure it's a pretty good chance that if you spray us with bacteria that will... But that's not the end goal. The end goal is what is gonna happen to the city. How many people will be infected if we...

So they're deliberately affecting a city that might not have a disease but with a bacteria. Like a metropolis too. Not just like... Not like just Louisville or Stake Willis where it's smaller or steady.

It's just here's a bacteria that we're pretty sure doesn't make people sick. They should be really sure. It's literally a mutate. In the following days, in the following days, the military took samples at 43 sites to track the bacteria's spread and found that it had quickly invested in only the city but surrounding suburbs as well.

Of course it did. During the test, residents in areas would have inhaled millions of bacterial spores. Clearly their test showed San Francisco's and cities with similar size and topography could face more threat. So that was the goal.

It's like a dry run almost. That was completely wet. But there was a catch. At the time the US military thought that the bacteria couldn't harm humans.

The bug was mostly known for the red spots to produce on the test and foods and had not been widely linked to clinical conditions. That changed when one week after the test 11 local residents took into Stanford University Hospital complaining of urinary tract infections. Now I want to interject here that this bacteria we don't know that causes urinary tract infections. But there seemed to be an increase during the time of this test.

When you infect millions of people with something, you're going to get a wide stream of a lot of people being immune to it. Some people are going to react to it. And again, there's no studies in the first labs that showed this does this. But doctors were like, we're not used to seeing this many of these infections.

I think there were two, you had two, well three groups really. There were one group that was susceptible to this bacteria. You have the ones that were on mother Abigail's side that took the test. And then is that?

I don't know. I don't know. Doctors noticed that the packaging had a red hue. Now I didn't read that in every report.

That was only one report. So that I don't have great confirmation of this. If that's true, it would seem that it's caused by bacteria. In fact, this particular bacteria was so rare that the outbreak was extensively investigated to identify the origins.

This bacteria usually show up in populations. So what caused it? Because at this point still, the government didn't announce this was happening. No one knows that the government infected with bacteria.

Well, it's fairly unethical. So they weren't going to. After scientists identified the micro of the cases, it became the first recorded outbreak of this bacteria ever. One patient, a man named Edward Nevin, who was recovering from prostate surgery, died.

And someone suggested that it was at least forever chained to areas of microbial ecology. So only one death, ten, gently connected with these with this urinary tract infection. And he had already been stuck with these had prostate problems in the past surgery. So it's one of those things where he became kind of septic.

Was this bacteria normally attacking urinary tract? It doesn't only attack anything. That's why they use it because they didn't take it back to humans negatively at all. His family, Edward Nevin, not Dr.

Edward Nevin, his family, that's the government. Well, yeah. Eventually, once it came out, twenty plus years later, they done this. And the trial was negated.

It went all the way to the Supreme Court and was shot down. They received nothing for this because there was no proof that this bacteria causes urinary tract infections. There is this evidence that it might, but no clinical lab suggesting this. I'm sorry, the whole city of San Francisco.

The whole city should be recominated for being at least medical bills. Another example of something kind of similar was Operation Big Buzz. In May 1995 in the U.S. state of Georgia.

Remember everybody had cop hills until they got buzzed? Not quite. The operation was a fear of the past, designed to determine the feasibility of producing, storing, loading, and emissions, and dispersing from aircraft, the yellow fever mosquito. What?

Oh! No! They didn't go out and breathe without a mosquito. Yeah.

Okay, swamp. It's just a test of what would happen if. That's not what the test did. The test was just mosquitoes, not infected with yellow fever.

There's enough mosquitoes around. Yeah. But the question is, if a terrorist group were to drop infected mosquitoes, what would happen? So they dropped mosquitoes that were not infected to see what their spread would be like.

How did that work out? The second goal of the operation was to determine whether mosquitoes would survive the dispersion and seek meals on the ground. Around 330,000 un-baked mosquitoes were dropped from aircraft and bombs, and dispersed from the ground. In total, about 1 million phenol mosquitoes were read for the testing.

Remaining mosquitoes were used in addition to munitions loading towards tests. Yeah. These mosquitoes were then aired as first, and dropped from playing 300 feet above the ground, spreading out on their own and due to the wind. Mosquitoes were collected as far away as 2,000 feet from the release site.

They were active in seeking blood meals from humans and gamers. Of course they were. But they survived the drop, is the thing. Oh, okay.

Oh, thank God we know that mosquitoes were taken to take that. I'm not sure if there were any experiments that were similar. One was called Operation Dropcake, one was called Operation Mayday, and it seemed like they were all in Georgia. Yeah.

But what I read in one of them was that one of the towns agreed to it. The whole town agreed. Well, how do you say as a municipality there that, okay, it's okay for you to release your mosquitoes in my town. I'm sure there was compensation of some sort.

It's okay to drop something that can fly several miles outside of my city and infect other towns. Why did they get to say something ridiculous? No, there were four similar experiments using fleas that was called Operation Big-itch. Big-itch.

Operation Big-itch. So these are just, again, testing biological warfare. Again, now these other ones, these bug ones, there were no consequences that I could find anywhere in terms of like, whatever. They were more of a skittler than that area.

But they were experimenting on their own people. They were experimenting on it. A number of federally funded military research programs also exist from our countries not so glorious scientific researchers. Those were testing what would happen if someone did this to us?

Yeah. The next one, I'm only going to give one example here because I think it'll come. Well, someone did do it to us. They did.

Yeah. But this next one is more of what could we get from this study? Oh, good. Project Bluebird and Artichoke.

Project Artichoke was a CIA project that researched interrogation methods and arose from Project Bluebird on August 20, 1951, run by the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence. Oh, yes. Artichoke was a mind control program. This was before you were born.

That gathered information together with the intelligence divisions of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and FBI. In addition, the scope of the project was outlined in a memo, they did a 1952 that stated, can we get control of an individual to the point where he will do our bidding against his will and even against fundamental laws of nature such as self-preservation. This is like Eisenhower's Super Soldier program. Kind of.

Is there something we can do a person where they will just do anything we tell him? Can we break them down so much? Yeah. So Project Artichoke was also...

Apparently, we can. Yeah. We can show some shoulder. The Central Intelligence Agency's secret code name for carrying out in-house overseas experiment using LSD.

Hypnosis, total isolation, as a form of physiological harassment for special interrogations on human subjects. The subjects who left this project were fogged with amnesia resulting in faulty and vague memories of the experience. It was fully known as Project Bluebird, but in August, about in August, 1951, the operation was renamed. This project was a kickoff for Operation Groovy in K-Ultra.

Oh. I don't know if you heard that or not, but there have been some things about this. No, there have been some things about this. Okay.

Did you hear of Operation Groovy? Operation Groovy times. It was Operation Bluebird. Yeah, that was boring.

The LSD was fun. They were fun experimenting with LSD. They've been made of film. They've been made of film.

They're like Firestarter. Oh, I love Firestarter. Oh, that was Human Trials. On those two, they ended up in a little girl.

They started out as a celebrity. It was a philosophy. It was a type of... How about Tyrokinesis?

They all did. They were each about their own... Yeah, they were the husband and wife and they were the ones. So, every time he used that, his nose was bleeped.

But he could convince someone that they were holding $100. That's based on what our government was actually doing to people. And the native of the public do it. Because, you know, I think of interrogation techniques.

It wrecks me inside. I think they can do this to people. If I can get information that will save millions of American lives, I'll do whatever I have to do to someone. Is that accepted?

No. I understand that. I'm qualified to say yes or no on that. There's so many prayers and poor findings.

Hey, the techniques don't work. Well, that's why they do the research now. When you're torturing somebody, they'll tell you anything. No, right.

Right. And so it doesn't make it true. It just means they'll tell you what they want to hear. So that you'll stop torturing.

There's other ways to get that information. There were lots of things I didn't put in here. I would like to talk about the Stanford Prison Experiment or Milgames Experiment. Those are more psychological and less biological.

It's still really interesting. What? It's okay. It was Van Helsing.

It was Van Helsing. I'll stand by that all day long. That concludes my history of human experimentation. What I want to focus on is before the Nurburg Code, a lot of studies were done, afterwards, everything I mentioned was US.

Of course. After the Nurburg Code of how people should be tested. What is it? Well, I'm not sure about Russia, but most of the civilised worlds started following the Code, except for the US, because we tend to act like we have a high ground.

And I didn't really go in depth on this, but it was for decades completely acceptable for farmers, student companies, and test on prisoners. Without consent. When I proposed this to my students, because this is a topic I've known in the background. It's like students this almost every year.

Yeah. And when I ask my students, okay, because I'm prisoners, I would say usually more than half are fine with it. Yeah. They're like, they're bad guys.

They deserve to be there. Right. They've not learned empathy. They've not learned real empathy yet.