This week's episode of While Card Podcasts is brought to you by last week's episode of Let me take a nap first and then I'll do it. But how are they going to find out about all the guns that were stockpiled to be used against the government? It was like predicted. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy, remember?
Okay, but God told me to wait. God told me to wait. But you left us. We had just gotten the ATF and started the siege of Corresia's compound with all the rest of Indians and even giving the promises back and forth that were being killed.
Okay, okay. I will do it. But first, first I have to finish my rewrites on Herroicas. I'm on the six rewrites.
I have to finish the six rewrites before I can do it. I can't wait that long. We got to talk about when the FBI joined the siege with the ATF and things got a little weird. They tried to really create a way to get out there.
People were sneaking in and all that. The correction was still like, just let me finish writing whatever I need to do and put me on the air and I'll do it. They let him do it. Okay, but you got to understand, I got rewrites on Tian, but I got to do it.
I can't just come back and do it. You introduced us to these seven seals of Corresia's prophecy. We were right at that point. We were right at that point where he's...
We went through all of those and he was using that to kind of corrupt the minds of his followers. You can't just leave us without telling us what's going on. I'm like, let me write these seven seals. I brought the first one and he was like, well, okay, but I need more time.
But you guys understand that I just got you guys to do my work for me and you guys told the listeners what happened. Son of a bitch. SON OF A BITCH. Welcome to the Wild Card Podcast.
I'm your host, Jared Eden, and my co-pilots on this journey to wherever are my good friends, Jeff Curtis. Hello. And for the last week, all of the joy has been sucked out of the world due to our discussion of David Corresia and the wake of siege. And no one is enjoying the despair more than Ron Blair.
It's true. I am enjoying the despair. I like watching you guys suffer the same way I suffer during the John Hughes. The John Hughes Review.
That's where we are. Ron Blair despair. John Hughes reviews. Absolutely.
That's what I have. Jared Eden. Every time you guys are like, ugh, I sort of smile inside a little bit. Except for the teenage bride stuff.
And then I was joining you guys. I was like, ugh. Last week was pretty hard. Speaking of...
Ron, tell me what this podcast is all about. This podcast is about exploring odd animals that never get our attention. Like giraffes and lions and tigers and all that. They get all the attention.
They get all the attention. Like the Malaysian spotted worm. Nobody ever goes to the zoo. Look at that thing.
The biggest of the Malaysian spotted worm. It's big. It's big. It's this big.
That is. Right? That's what I'm talking about. You can't see that, but he showed us eyes.
And it's big. It's a big worm. And the surly jungle cat of the Sahara. The jungles and the Sahara put together.
Well, they're all in the hands around the fringe. The fringies surly jungle. You can talk about the pangolin. The pangolin which comes out of the arctic.
It's from India, I believe. The Indian arctic. Great. Great.
The president mentioned the cheetos. The cheetos. The cheetos. We need weirdo conservation.
We can't protect people. No, we like to eat cheetos. Speaking of that despair, I wanted to do a favorite question that would pull us out of the pit. Get us out of the mire.
We have a couple of fast hits of favorites. Don't feel like you do rush, but it's just a few things we can talk about here. The first is, what is your favorite happy place? So for me, example is, I'm super happy when it's like a Friday night.
I got off work. I come home. I order a pizza and I sit on my recliner. I either play video games or watch TV and just sit there.
No one had to go early on a Saturday. That's a favorite place for me. A happy place. It hasn't happened in a while because I don't live in a knee county.
But when I lived in knee county, I would drive down here or drive back. And I wasn't in a hurry. That drive with a windows down, if it was warm, wind below. I have a little sun roof up.
That is a happy place for me. I'm comfortable temperatures and not being in a hurry. I really enjoy that feeling as well. When I was really young, it would definitely have been the zoo.
I haven't gone to the zoo in probably a decade. When I was a kid, it was just like the wonder I encountered at seeing all these animals. There was nothing better than that for me as a kid. Well, so my, probably my basic happy place is just if I'm alone and it's late at night and I can sit in front of the TV and just watch movies or several movies and just eat pizza and snacks and just kind of vegetate.
That's a nice happy place. Sometimes, or when I used to be in a really bad mood or when I'd be very stressed out when I was in Boston or even in New York. But especially Boston, I would just go and walk around the city and I'd just be out. I'd just walk around the city and I'd come back kind of chilled out.
I'd go to the city that way. When I first moved there, I was ready to go by myself after I'd go to a movie by the way that one time. And I went and started off to put the end. I'd never again worried about that I just left and walked.
Yeah, it's a great time. I did that in New York actually. We went up and visited 2005 and I wanted to walk back from the theater to our hotel and just kind of senior, not knowing what else I wanted to. And I might have forgotten to tell them that I was not going to do it anyway.
So I held the cab for us and like helped them all sit down and shut the door and pet it on the back. That would be okay probably. If I hadn't forgotten to turn my phone off of mute, so they were all trying to reach me for a chance to get a hold of me. I just walked to the city of New York on a Friday or Saturday night on a cell.
And I was 17 years old. Which part of New York? I haven't been back in New York since. That was 14 years ago.
It was a show on Broadway. We saw a show on Broadway and we were walking back. Well, it's actually pretty simple. We were actually ready to use the call.
It was like one of the theaters to reach the musical. Yeah, you're probably safe. Nothing. New York's awake 24 hours a day.
There's all people around. It's not like you're walking down this street at 3am in the morning and there's nobody out there but you and some other people all around every day. It's 3am all night long. I've walked around New York at night by myself.
I've walked around Boston at night by myself. And it's how you walk. I think that's true. So I was in a fast walker.
As long as you don't walk like Batman's parents. They walk like a car. I'm sorry. I was going to say that's too soon.
I'm sorry. He's going to be so bad. He probably will. He probably will.
I'm using my parks in my happy place. I love that. I love just walking in. I love walking outside the front gates.
I'm just parking to see it and the energy that's going on. You start smelling the food that they're cooking. It's just celebratory for me. That's another place.
Yeah. That's a happy place for me. In the dark about watch movie. It could be a crowded theater but nobody's been attentioning to each other.
No, that's great. Or at home. I just saw Pet Sematary recently. Last Sunday I saw Pet Sematary.
Oh my gosh. I've heard good things. It is astounding. Like it does take celebrities from the book.
Oh, it's even king kind of side. I've always been a good politician. I was friends. I'm not scared.
I don't get scared of movies. Like there was one jump scare where I jumped. Beyond that, I never jumped or hit my eyes. Two people I saw were hiding most of the time.
But I had to be all smile on the face because it was so unsettling. You never got to feel comfortable while you're watching them. Well, aren't we? If you're interested in horror movies or Stephen King, Pet Sematary is good.
I don't like a movie that just gives jump scares. There are several in there. I'm sure. But the atmosphere is more like something else.
There's anticipation of what's coming. There should be a few good jump scares. But that shouldn't be what you rely on as a filmmaker to make your film scare. You can startle anybody.
Anybody can be, you know, ah, but to really scare somebody, that's difficult. Yeah. Well, like I said, my reaction to that kind of stuff is the smile. But it's not a fix.
I realize how wonderful the atmosphere was at Tension's and photography to get me to the disuncomfortable. Well, that's great. It sounds like it's a lot better than the original movie they made from the book. I would suggest that you're interested in the book.
It's a lot of people out there, but I didn't care for it. I thought it was okay. But one other thing I want to mention last week when we talked about favorite musicals, I forgot to mention why that was my favorite question because a couple weeks ago I saw a new Z that everybody would play out. Clay Smith is in.
Clay Smith is in. It is astounding. It runs till mid-May. So if you're an interesting musical theater, I will admit they're a little bit more much.
But you're also getting a meal and a good environment. I was sitting down stage at the theater and around. I was down stage like not only for all of us, but there were dancing. It felt like we were kicking over top of my head with every dancing.
Great music, great dancing, great atmosphere. If you're interested, I would suggest using the music. Yeah, I'm going to go show me a photograph of a poster of that everybody in the cast. I've heard her.
Of course she did. She got to meet a couple of afterwards. She asked if they enjoyed the donuts and they got to meet a donut girl. Just funny because that's in Southern Canada.
So I know a couple of the cast. I know the stage manager. Clay, obviously. What about happy songs?
Are there any songs that make you smile and be in a happy mood? Yeah. That's all I got. I can't say anything right now.
It's different songs depending on the mood though. I should be able to rely on it. For me, like orchestration. I mentioned once in the podcast, the balleros, the closing credits of the Rouge, Phantom of the Opera.
There's several songs in the opera that the orchestration will just like the masquerade. Oh, this is the swelly orchestra. Some of the soundtracks and things like Lord of the Rings. Those are casual soundtracks.
Any of those things with lots of strings will get me happy. The French horn section and you can't always get what you want by the rolling songs. I'm like, oh, that's lovely. It's followed by a great song.
There's times when the greatest skate music just lifts me up. There's times when there's a YouTube video of an orchestra playing the title song from The Good and The Bad and The Yuggly. I'll watch that over and over again. It'll always make me happy.
Beatle songs. I can just go live with their albums or Billy Joel. It depends on the mood. I can't say that.
This is the one song I would go to because there's no such song. There's that talking head song. I can never remember the name of it. But it's a...
No, no, no, no. I can't say that. I can't remember the name of the song. I can't remember the name of the song, but I'll love that one.
When you know what the song is wrong, thinking of... Sure. The King's Water Loo Sunset. Every time I hear that, I just...
No, the one by the King's. They did a remake of Water Loo. No, Water Loo Sunset. It's a different song altogether.
The King's Water Loo Sunset. Most King songs make me pretty jolly. Just the beginning strains of any King's song, like, Gate Man or Strangers. Okay.
Any of those. No, the King's. Why would we do this? Why would we do this?
Well, walking on set, I'd always listen to you. I think you could... The Neutron Dance one always kid by the pointer sisters always kid. There's several songs from my time in high school that I could come on.
As a station I was going to set on my set, like, 90s today, pop rock music. And there's a lot of things that will be like, Oh, yeah, that one. What I like about you by the romantic... That's why I like that.
You. I like that one. Yeah, I like that one. What about Happy Episode of the podcast?
I like that one. There have been a few. I've done two dark. I've done two happy episodes.
I don't know if you guys have actually done anything. I've done schoolhouse rock. Okay, I was kind of happier. I did Fred Rogers about Ross.
I did the Operation Yellow Ribbon where the people in Canada helped. There were a couple of good episodes. I don't know if you guys have any. You've done some dark ones.
I also did the dark ones. I like my blooded questions. That was fun. That was fun.
Sorry. I told the story. I enjoyed that one. I'm happy.
I think my holiday episode with Easter and rolls out. You've done the two episodes that made me the happiest. The Sock episode of James Bond. That's right.
Those episodes made me really happy when I was doing that. And the Beatles or the Pauls football. What were you guys did the scenario fights where you were talking about who in the fight? That was fun.
That was a lot of fun. The Billy Jill Jeopardy was quite fun. It was fun for some people. I didn't even like it.
I didn't think I had a chance. The episode where I had you guys. I had a movie face off that wasn't his fights. It was like name your favorite Batman.
Name your favorite. You're like a weak comparison of those answers. Anytime we talk about movies on half. I think one of my favorite episodes that I've done was still this swash some buckles.
That was an excellent episode. I don't know. The one where we did the Endurance. You were miserable.
Check it out. Check it out. Check it out. Check it out.
Check it out. Check it out. I got it. Find a favorite section.
Say something nice about your fellow podcasters. Say some of your favorite things about them. I can start because we had this coming. Ron, you are one of the most creative people ever known.
Thank you. You're ability to put pen to paper and come up with some brilliant comedy. Never cease to impress. Thank you, sir.
That's very common. Jeff, you take all the anatomy that we give you. You maintain your composure. You put tons of research into these stories that you create.
The way you can compose music when you turn around and sit at the computer and come up with even the sound effects and make them time well. Especially when you have some time and come up with different variations on the theme. Always masterful, sir. Thank you very much.
I'm always impressed with the way that Ron can just create the way you can improv in any situation. Thank you. There's never dead silence while you're thinking. You'll become something.
Whatever that is. It will work. The well menu is deep. Thank you.
I love the... Jared, you have a fantastic job of your always have the favorite questions and having everything organized. I also love the way that you always... Ron gives you the script or when we do the scripts for the...
for the commercial, stuff like that. You always know where your character is. You always find that character. You always get to change the way you have to change voices.
You become the... I sometimes have to struggle to be someone other than myself. But you become these different people like that and it's an amazing thing to watch. I agree.
I agree with everything everybody said. So let's get on to the second part of that. No, I'm sorry. I missed my turn.
Jeff, I... First of all, you're a very kind human being. Oh, then I appreciate that. Both of you are very kind, which is the reason we're still here with me.
Because you're not. I can test the water. No, that's true. No, I'm not.
No, I try to. You're a very kind person. You've never been like, well fuck you. I'm not doing that.
Whenever I say let's do an 80s thing. Can you do an 80s thing for me? Can you do a great escape thing for me? Can you do many of the things that I've ever asked you?
Many of the horrible things that I've asked you to do. Look, we'll get us here for a while. Jeff, like 15 sound effects in this one. Yeah.
Oh, and you bear with me being in great length and your musical talent is unmatched. Jared, you were also very kind, human being, very understanding, very empathetic. And it's your sense of logic within your episodes that gives a structure, I think. And that's to be admired and your creative impulses in taking what I've written, both of you really.
And making them more than what I could have pictured they would have been. So I appreciate that from you guys. Was that good enough? You guys just showered me with the most beautiful praise and I feel like I have to match that.
I did a whole episode on these. It's true. I'll never match that. Well, I thought that would be fun thing to do to encourage each other and talk about happy things about before we get back into the Jeff episode.
Oh, man. We have to go back to Wake Up, don't we? Oh, no, it's a wonderful. It's a great topic.
It's a great topic. It's a great topic. It's a great thing to do it. Well, here's the thing about it.
One of the reasons that I selected the way that I'm telling the story is that so that people can understand the frustration of the FBI that we got to the final thing. They made some bad decisions. They're doing the best they can. You can see how much they are enduring.
I'm trying to help people in this contest. They're going out of their way after the initial shootout. They've gone out of their way not to shoot at anybody, to try to keep things people to try and get people to come out of the compound. For 51 days, they treated Wake Up and the branch of video.
That it was a hostage situation. They're trying to talk the hostage shakers into letting people go until they got to the point where they realized no one else was coming out. Where's the controversy? Because I know there's a controversy, first of all about who shot first, the branch of video.
Is that the only thing? It seems to me people who are already against the government are going to go wrong and we go. There's a whole segment in today's episode where we're going to get into some of those controversies. First, I think we have to finish what happened and then we'll talk about the controversies and what the reality is for each of these controversies.
Because there's four general misconceptions and controversies that are kept alive by people on the conspiracy. There's a lot of conspiracy theories and malicious theories. We're going to talk about each one of those four main things that fuel other things. It's been a tough, it's been a 1993, so it's been around for 26 years.
So people have had a lot of time to digest it and come up and do things and also to spit it. There's been movies and many series and books and all kinds of things written on this. Speaking of a right-wing conspiracy website, recently Alex Jones said, yes, what I said was bullshit and I was mentally ill at the time. It's the bullshit that he said.
First of all, he needs to be said on fire. I know you guys aren't violent people. It's true. I don't think he needs to be said.
I've never posed to emulation. I'm the post-attenting on fire. I'd be happy if Alex Jones is all in match. I'm not saying to you, I don't think there are problems with him being locked up for what he's done.
Because of the way he's mesmerized by the country. Well, the problem is that part of the country that he's memorized are not going to buy that it's longer true. You didn't mesmerize. You did.
You did. You did. He's a Jurassic Park. I do get to see Jurassic Park.
I'm very pleased. For the tenth time, finally on the big screen. We had Koresh and Schneider inside the compound. They were doing negotiations with the FBI.
Occasionally they would release some children or some elderly people or at least that one 34-year-old guy. He was the last one of the brains. We had those two people that snuck in. They both been released as well, although they were there for a couple of days.
And then it seemed like the FBI was kind of preparing for raid. And then you had the right wing militias on the front. Yeah, the whole thing. People like him with me are there watching from the...
Yeah, because there's a whole contingent of people watching what's going on. The FBI and their perimeter around the compound and then outside of that you've got the news organization. Then you have all these onlookers. I think Timothy McVey is on episode.
Timothy McVey, absolutely. I can't remember his partner's name, but his brother was in Bulling for Columbine. There's something very wrong with these people. There's something mentally off about that person.
Part of the day was he was a soldier and we came back and became very disillusioned. Yeah. I don't want to waste any more of our time. Timothy McVey, since we've got our own people to talk about.
Right. So we had stopped last week on the final day before the day of the fire and the insertion of the gas. So the FBI had been negotiating and negotiating and trying to get people out. They got a total of 35 people released from the compound.
I don't know. 120? There was a little over 120 when they started. And so by the time...
And so we've made it all the way to April 18th. They negotiated. Now, Koresh is making excuses for not coming out. They're...
It started February 28th. It's February 28th. Yeah. And now it's April 18th and then we're going to start on April 19th, which is the final day of the events.
Yeah. No, I did have a question about the number of seals that he had written about at this point. Was it just one? He had only finished writing his one of the seals and he said he had to write all seven before he would come out.
Which is kind of bullshit. Well, yes, since he's been preaching about the seven seals. He can write about the other six in prison. How about that?
Well, remember the FBI had offered him, which I think was an insane offer in the first place, that if he came out, he would be able to broadcast from... he'd be able to publish his seals from prison. He'd be able to broadcast worldwide from prison, which I think is a horrible idea letting this... If they meant it.
Well, they had written this down. They had signed, they meant it. But this was the last offer they made before committing to their... Well, it was less a raid than it was tear gas.
Smoking gas. Let's try to smoke them out. All right. Last straw.
All right. So this is where we're going to start today. We're going to start with... because we talked about at the side at Waco.
So today we're going to start... we're going to begin... before we get to that day, we're going to begin with the approval process for this plan as a plan that the government had for what they were going to do. And remember when we talked about Masada, all the problems with sieging a place that is fortified, that has water, that has food.
While the building wasn't fortified like Masada, it was just made out of wood. It had enough food for a year and it had enough water forever. So there was no way... so the question is, can the FBI maintain a secure perimeter around this place for a year or longer to wait the video out and would they come out at that point?
Or especially if you come to the realization that they're not sending anyone else out? Or is it time to do something to try and force an end to this... Look at how Masada ended. If we wait a minute, it's going to do that.
Maybe we'll get into this peacefully. If we try something, maybe it will be successful. The crash has already threatened the people inside. He's threatened the FBI, but he'll kill the people inside.
You've got to register the video on the outside who can tell. We've always talked about how this ends. I don't know how much Crena's the FBI at that point was putting into his prophecies, but his prophecies... this is exactly what David Koresh wanted.
He was wanting a confrontation with the government because it fulfills his prophecies. The raid on the 28th fulfilled the prophecy of being attacked by the government, even though the branch of the vidians fired first. But the government came onto their property so they felt just fine in doing it. And so some of them died that day, which was part of his prophecy.
And then he said, God, we'll be in rest period. And then the rest of us will be killed in a battle. So they were waiting for this final battle and preparing for it with the government and trying to make it happen. Just from their actions.
They had become tired of waiting for the government to attack them again. So that's where we're at. We're at the tear gas option. We're at the plan that gets us to that.
So as early as March 10th, the FBI began to make plans for the use of tear gas to drive the Davidians out. That's over a month ago. They started thinking, well, how can we get these people out? Because we can't go in with guns shooting because there's children inside of there.
Plus we don't want to hold bloodbath. So on April 12th, the FBI submitted to Attorney General Reno a briefing book in this book, an outline of plan from the outside of the FBI would tell the Davidians, by telephone or loudspeaker, that it was inserting tear gas to force the Davidians out. That the FBI was not assaulting the complex and that the Davidians should not use their weapons and that they must stay out of the tower area. This was what they were proposing to Reno.
2CEVs, which are kind of like armored cars, vehicles, with delivered tear gas into the complex in a gradual, but systematic fashion. If the CEVs took gunfire, the FBI would immediately accelerate the plan to an all-out insertion of tear gas by using HRRT personnel and Bradleys to shoot ferret rounds into the complex. Now ferret rounds is a non-explosive tear gas canister. So it comes in and the force of it hitting the floor or the wall or whatever causes it to pop open and really see tear gas.
There's nothing fire-otch- technique about it. There's no shroud though. There's no explosion. They can't start a fire.
It's a facility just to emit tear gas. Right. But you know, it would hide a volume that you don't get to get up gradually any longer. Right.
You're pretty soon capacitated. The idea was also that CEVs would continue to insert tear gas with canisters mounted in their booms. The plan provided that the tear gas seemed to continue for 48 hours until all the Davidians had at the complex. They were planning on this, driving everybody out within an hour or two hours later.
They were planning to gradually increase the tear gas and remove parts of the buildings that the Davidians could be using to hide out from and they figured it would take 48 hours to drive them out. Right. That was the plan that they presented to Dan and Reno. So Janet Reno asked why now?
Why do we have to do this now? Why can't we just keep waiting? Right. The CEs question.
The FBI told her that A, there was no reason to believe that correct. We come out voluntarily. Right. B, the health and safety of the children that were still in there was in jeopardy.
There's no toilets. No running water. No water. And C, the effect of a prolonged stand-up on the Hossie Dress Queue team that was in charge of this whole thing.
They've been out there already. Right. So how much longer can they stay before they need to leave for rest and retraining? Right.
So the FBI agents concluded that the Davidians had plenty of water which we know and had drawn that they could drop from there well and they had enough food for a year. This guy's before. So after several days of questions and consultations and back and forth concerning every angle of the plan, including the effect of tear gas on children because Reno wanted to know what is the long-term effect or the short-term effect on the stair gas is it going to cause people to asphyxiate? Is it going to cause long-term damage?
Right. What's going to happen? And so they had experts that testified or came in and talked about what the effect of the stair gas is. The Army, the military actually trains with this tear gas and puts it on their own soldier so they know what it's going to do to people.
I've heard of him from a little Metro Police Department officer before he could have been a cayver. He had to be tasered, he had to be pepper sprayed, he had to have all the things he was going to do to another gun to be and he had to have done himself. Short of being shot with a gun. Smart.
You need to know what you are doing to someone in order to do it. I've known several military guys that have gone through the chamber like that where they sit in that room and then they pump the tear gas in and they have to endure it for such and such many minutes. And so one of her questions was can this tear gas or the way for me delivered start a fire and she was assured that it couldn't. Excuse me.
So the plan. The first stage of the operation required two combat engineering vehicles, the CVs, to remove all the fortifications, obstacles and vehicles from the front side of the combat because there's a lot of cars parked around this compound. They belong to the Davidians. They were there from the 120 people living here.
I had a lot of cars and trucks and a lot of them had been shot up in the shootout with the FBI and in order to make it safe for the CVs to move around and to put the gas in and for the Davidians to come out they needed to remove all these obstacles. So the first plan was to remove these vehicles and we spoke at the end last week where they had started removing these vehicles and they had told Schneider that they were removing these vehicles for safety so that people could exit safely the compound and not use the tower. Double rows of concert Tina wire were to be placed along the front of the building so that the compound would be completely encircled with wire. They had been placed in concert Tina wire around the compound but now they're going to put it in front and just leave one path for people to actually see this is how you get out.
And so all of this would be done on April 18th and preparation for the 19th. On April 19th to the two CVs were to enter the compound inside the concert Tina wire at sunrise. One of them would penetrate, use it to penetrate the structure, punch a hole in it and start inserting tear gas into the building. And this was a liquid tear gas that they were pumping in through a hose that left out then it would become gases.
So it wasn't, there was nothing pyrotechnic about it. Nothing combustible about it. After the delivery the CV would withdraw and stand by. And the second CV would then insert additional gas into the second floor on the middle right side of the building.
So they had planned where they're going to start taking parts of the building away from use by the divisions with the tear gas. Very good. So the four starts following them. And the booms were to push aside obstructions if necessary.
We've left and right like if they're blocking the window with a pan or something the boom would push it out of the way. So after the CVs delivered the gas the brally vehicles with were nearby, would deliver ferret gas, they would shoot these ferret rounds into an unfinished unoccupied construction area near the main structure so that they couldn't flee into that structure. So the second stage called for the injection of gas through a corner in the rear structure. And that was hoped that by introducing gas at opposite ends of the compound the branch of the video would be forced to the front door.
And if they started taking fire from the compounds they would deliver the ferret, they would shoot these ferret rounds through the windows everywhere that someone was shooting at them from. To drive people away from those windows. Now if after 48 hours the tear gas hadn't driven people out of the compound then the CVs would proceed to open up and begin dismantling the buildings taking out a wall here, taking out a wall here. Well all automated all armored.
Well there's people inside. You're not right here with your bullets. They've got armor pieces through the armor. They've got armor version.
They've got armor piercing rounds ammunition. Yeah they can do it. They can do it. Yeah Jesus Christ.
The people inside the CVs are not safe from gunfire which is why they are just ignoring the people shooting. If people shoot out from the window they're not just going to ignore that. They are not safe inside of these. They're safer than not being inside of them.
They're not safe. Okay. So now if the FBI observed any people in the tower they would shoot the tear gas into the tower to drive people out. Because the tower would give the brass evidians a view and vantage point of being able to shoot FBI agents from a long distance.
Yeah. Okay. Brass evidians who exited the compound and surrendered would be directed to a designated Bradley vehicle. These individuals would then be escorted on foot in a single file line to a nearby point where SWAT personnel would hold them.
They would then be moved in an orderly fashion to a designated area behind the vehicles where they would be searched and turned over to the waiting ATF personnel for hand-cuffing and transport. And orbiting helicopter with SWAT personnel aboard would apprehend and arrest subjects attempting to flee from the site. If someone tried to flee a different way the helicopter would swoop down and drop people and they would grab them off. So that was the plan.
No. All right. Now here are the rules of engagement that Janet Reno gave the FBI. If during the insertion of the gas the dividians told the FBI to back off her they would harm the children.
Then the FBI should back off and continue negotiations. Well Janet Ralston why can't we just wait about? Well she's being safe. I know I know I know she has.
Well she doesn't want. Well here's the second rule of engagement. If a dividian threatened the child the FBI snipers were to shoot the threatened subject only if they had a clear shot. Otherwise the FBI was to back off and to continue to negotiate.
No. No. No. No.
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No. No. No. No.
No. No. We're those things today. So the tear gas action began at 5.55 AM just before 6.
Right before started, the lead negotiator Byron saved telephone to compound and asked to speak with Schneider. Sage said, we're in the process of putting tear gas into the building. This is not an assault. We will not enter the building.
The individual he was talking to, who we don't know who it was, may not be Schneider. You are going to spray tear gas into the building? Sage replied, in the building. No, we're not entering the building.
The telephone was subsequently thrown out the window. Oh, shit. That's a good sign. As soon as the phone was thrown out the window, Sage began broadcasting over the loudspeakers.
You're not going to stop me from talking to you. That's not effective. We are in the process of placing tear gas into the building. So I'm going to read you the whole thing.
This is not an assault. We are not entering the building. This is not an assault. Do not fire your weapons.
If you fire, fire will be returned. Do not shoot. This is not an assault. The gas you smell is non-lethal tear gas.
This gas will temporarily render the building uninhabitable. Exit the compound now and follow instructions. You are not to have anyone in the tower. The tower is off limits.
No one is to be in the tower. Anyone in the tower will be considered to be an act of aggression and will be dealt with accordingly. If you come out now, you will not be harmed. Follow all instructions.
Come out with your hands up. Carry nothing. Come out of the building and walk up the driveway toward the double E-Ranch Road. Walk towards the large Red Cross flag.
Follow all instructions of the FBI agents and the Bradley's. Follow all instructions. You are under arrest. The standoff is over.
We do not want anyone hurt. Follow all instructions. This is not an assault. Do not fire any weapons.
We do not want anyone hurt. Gas will continue to be delivered until everyone is out of the building. Now they kept rewinding. Yeah, that's a good statement.
Yeah. He said this is not an assault five times, I think? Yeah. Yeah.
And they kept re-broadcasting this on a loop during the whole thing. Anybody to get hurt. So at 6 a.m., the first CEB began to insert gas at the front left corner of the building, like I was supposed to, at 604, an FBI agent stationed at their CR-1 post broadcast, a code word compromise over the radio, meaning that the CEB was taking fire. That was being shot at.
Oh, shit. At 607, a forward observer broadcast the same compromised code word providing confirmation that they were being shot at. The forward observer reported that many rounds were ricocheting off the CEB's. The gunfire included fire from automatic weapons.
So Rogers then broadcast the compromised code word to all his personnel. When the Davidians started shooting, the scope and pace of the operation changed. Because we will escalate it. We're not going to tear gas the hell out of this place.
Right, exactly. So although they envisioned originally that this would take two or three days. You're going to slowly erase the doors. Right?