Tony Bull and finding his voice through a prison debating club

What this episode covers

Tony spent three decades in and out of jail for property crimes and safecracking. When he joined an unusual club inside Hobart's Risdon Prison, he found his voice for the first time. Then a few years ago, on a fishing trawler far out to sea, he began the painful process of changing his life Tony Bull grew up across the road from Hobart's Risdon Prison. As child he started running with a crowd of boys who stole money for the woodman and the milkman from people's front doorsteps. In late primary school he found himself in trouble with the law for the first time. He was 17 when he first went to jail, in Queensland's Boggo Road after a car chase with the police in Cairns. A year later, he was back in Tasmania, and inside Risdon Prison for the first time. It was a scary experience because he'd heard so many unsettling sounds coming from inside the prison walls when he was a child. In his 20s, Tony joined the Spartan Debating Club inside the jail. The prisoners, including Chopper Read, often debated teams from outside the jail, and their families were sometimes allowed in to watch the debates. Learning to debate changed how Tony used his voice. He eventually became yard boss, a conduit between the prisoners and the Superintendent. Some years later he was out of jail and working on a fishing boat called the 'Diana' when he had a pre-dawn epiphany far out at sea. He realised it was finally time for him to break the cycle of crime and incarceration in his own life. Tony worked incredibly hard to unlearn some of his old habits which had previously led him straight back into jail. Today he lives in his own unit with his beloved dog Princess and runs a home maintenance business.   Further information Learn about the Salvation Army's Beyond the Wire program To binge even more great episodes of the ‘Conversations podcast’ with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you’ll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, singers, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.