Toxic School? Diagnosing narcissistic organizations and changing school culture

This one’s for the leaders.In this episode, I talk with a most amazing psychotherapist and “Leadership Whisperer,” Jerry Fromm. Jerry does organizational consulting, which means he helps people figure out (as I put it) what the hell is happening psychodynamically within their walls — or within their societies! or countries! since he works with individuals and groups domestically and internationally as well. He does quite remarkable work and tells lots of fascinating stories in today’s conversation, stories that will make teachers and school leaders think differently about themselves and the school cultures they’re a part of.Many schools are rethinking their cultures. But I promise you: Jerry’s perspective will make you think in a way you could never have imagined.Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Teaching through Emotions is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.We discuss* The Clinical Is Missing: A simple and amazing definition of “clinical” makes Jerry’s (and TTE’s) psychodynamic work relevant to schools.* The Sentient Level of Organizations: How, in the psychological dynamics of systems, contagious unprocessed feelings define the school culture.* Playing Roles: Managing the “invitations flying around” all organizations to fit with others in familiar ways.* Different Types of Organizations: What are narcissistic organizations? What are dependent organizations?* The Power of Pictures: What drawing a picture of your organization with you in it can reveal.External LinksFor information on Group Relations Conferences and Leading from Experience, go to The Center for the Study of Groups and Social Systems.To get in touch with Jerry, email him at [email protected], I’m biased: I am certain that teaching is spiritual. Not because teachers need to be religious but because the tasks of teaching human beings require heart-based skills: faith, care, love, “unconditional positive regard for difference” — skills that do not necessarily come naturally all the time and therefore demand care and attention themselves.In this episode, I explore this question and others with Mark Longhurst, an inspiring pastor, writer, and publications manager for Richard Rohr’s Center for Action and Contemplation. Together, we explore how to view teaching (and parenting) not just as a task list, but as a spiritual practice.Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.We discuss:* Flowing with chaos: How to stay grounded when the classroom (or home) feels out of control.* The “holy ordinary”: Why the most mundane moments hold the most spiritual weight.* Detachment for connection: The paradox of detaching from our “teacher identity” to develop healthy attachment with students.* Somatic teaching: The importance of bringing a “settled body” into the classroom.* Sacred spaces: The benefits, and perils, of viewing your classroom as holy ground.External Linksthe holy ordinary by Mark Longhurst (Substack)The Holy Ordinary: A Way to God (Book)My Grandmother’s Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies by Resmaa MenakemFierce Love: A Bold Path to Ferocious Courage and Rule-Breaking Kindness that Can Heal the World by Dr. Jacqui LewisConnect & ShareGot a story to share? Leave me a voicemail at (413) 239-4158 and we might feature your perspective in a future episode!Support the Show: If this conversation resonated, please consider leaving a rating or review on your podcast app. Your feedback helps others find us.Get full access to the community: [www.teachingthroughemotions.com/subscribe]CreditsFounder and Host: Betsy BurrisCo-Host: Joe JohnsonProducer: Jullian Androkae of PodVisionAudience Development: Andreea Coscai of PodVisionMusic: Tom Burris/Jabbering TroutTeaching through Emotions is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.teachingthroughemotions.com/subscribe