EPISODE · May 5, 2026 · 1H 4M
Why Cities Will Start Dying Without Migration with Ness Sándoval, Professor at Saint Louis University
from T.U.T — The Unwritten Teachings · host Raj Tut
In this episode, I sat down with Ness Sándoval, a Professor of Demography and Sociology at Saint Louis University and one of the leading voices sounding the alarm on population decline. Ness walks through his personal journey from growing up in a small, segregated town in Nebraska to becoming deeply focused on demographic trends and spatial inequality. His early exposure to contrasting environments and access to education shaped his perspective on opportunity, migration, and long-term societal shifts.We dive into the reality that population growth as we’ve known it is ending, driven by declining birth rates, aging populations, and reduced migration. Ness explains how this shift will fundamentally impact housing, economies, and entire regions—especially cities like St. Louis. He outlines why migration is now the only path to growth, why young people are the key to survival, and why many regions are unprepared for what’s coming. The conversation highlights both the risks of inaction and the narrow window of opportunity cities still have to adapt before long-term decline becomes irreversible.Connect with the HostTwitter: twitter.com/ItsRajTut LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajtut/ Instagram: instagram.com/ItsRajTut TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itsrajtutConnect with the GuestLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ness-s%C3%A1ndoval-a42ba938/Email: [email protected]:00:00 Demographic collapse warning 01:07 Guest introduction and background 03:00 Early exposure to inequality and education 04:20 Transition from pre-med to demography 07:00 Discovering demographic trends and data 08:50 Global examples: Japan, Russia, Middle East 11:00 The Great Recession as a demographic shock 12:30 Why population decline matters economically 14:00 Housing demand collapse and empty towns 16:00 Migration as the only growth solution 19:00 Why St. Louis is losing population 22:00 Attracting young people and “stickiness” 24:00 COVID’s impact on births and deaths 26:00 Pittsburgh as a case study 28:00 Housing shortages and policy resistance 30:00 Immigration and growth in suburbs 34:00 Schools driving family migration decisions 37:00 Best vs worst-case future scenarios 42:00 Aging population and economic strain 46:00 School closures and declining youth population 49:00 Midwest’s future opportunity for growth 52:00 Why St. Louis fails at storytelling 55:00 Tracking migration with IRS and cell data 01:01:40 Where to follow Ness and closing thoughtsThis podcast is brought to you by Storyboard Living. If you're looking to sell us a 40+ unit multifamily property in the St. Louis region, or another part of MO/IL, please email [email protected] Connect with us at our Website: https://storyboardliving.com/LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/company/storyboard-living/
What this episode covers
In this episode, I sat down with Ness Sándoval, a Professor of Demography and Sociology at Saint Louis University and one of the leading voices sounding the alarm on population decline. Ness walks through his personal journey from growing up in a small, segregated town in Nebraska to becoming deeply focused on demographic trends and spatial inequality. His early exposure to contrasting environments and access to education shaped his perspective on opportunity, migration, and long-term societal shifts.We dive into the reality that population growth as we’ve known it is ending, driven by declining birth rates, aging populations, and reduced migration. Ness explains how this shift will fundamentally impact housing, economies, and entire regions—especially cities like St. Louis. He outlines why migration is now the only path to growth, why young people are the key to survival, and why many regions are unprepared for what’s coming. The conversation highlights both the risks of inaction and the narrow window of opportunity cities still have to adapt before long-term decline becomes irreversible.Connect with the HostTwitter: twitter.com/ItsRajTut LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajtut/ Instagram: instagram.com/ItsRajTut TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itsrajtutConnect with the GuestLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ness-s%C3%A1ndoval-a42ba938/Email: [email protected]:00:00 Demographic collapse warning 01:07 Guest introduction and background 03:00 Early exposure to inequality and education 04:20 Transition from pre-med to demography 07:00 Discovering demographic trends and data 08:50 Global examples: Japan, Russia, Middle East 11:00 The Great Recession as a demographic shock 12:30 Why population decline matters economically 14:00 Housing demand collapse and empty towns 16:00 Migration as the only growth solution 19:00 Why St. Louis is losing population 22:00 Attracting young people and “stickiness” 24:00 COVID’s impact on births and deaths 26:00 Pittsburgh as a case study 28:00 Housing shortages and policy resistance 30:00 Immigration and growth in suburbs 34:00 Schools driving family migration decisions 37:00 Best vs worst-case future scenarios 42:00 Aging population and economic strain 46:00 School closures and declining youth population 49:00 Midwest’s future opportunity for growth 52:00 Why St. Louis fails at storytelling 55:00 Tracking migration with IRS and cell data 01:01:40 Where to follow Ness and closing thoughtsThis podcast is brought to you by Storyboard Living. If you're looking to sell us a 40+ unit multifamily property in the St. Louis region, or another part of MO/IL, please email [email protected] Connect with us at our Website: https://storyboardliving.com/LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/company/storyboard-living/
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Why Cities Will Start Dying Without Migration with Ness Sándoval, Professor at Saint Louis University
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