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Thank you so much. This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. My guest is Will Arnett.
He co-wrote and stars in the new movie Is This Thing On? He was one of the stars of the series Arrested Development, played the title role in the animated satirical series for adults, Bojack Horseman, and was Batman in the animated Lego Batman series. He also co-hosts the podcast Smart List with his longtime friends, Jason Bateman, who also starred in Arrested Development, and Sean Hayes, who has a small part in Arnett's new film. Another longtime friend of Arnett's, Bradley Cooper, directed the new film and plays Arnett's self-absorbed best friend.
The story is adapted from the true story of the British comic, The film's title, Is This Thing On?, has a double meaning. It's what a lot of people say when they first get to a microphone. It also refers to whether Will Arnett's character's marriage is on or off. The movie is a hybrid of comedy and drama, focused on the anger and resentments that can undermine a marriage, and how your sense of identity can change if you're lucky enough to discover work that is meaningful to you.
Arnett plays a middle-aged father of two, whose marriage has fallen apart. He and his wife, played by Laura Dern, are separated, and he's feeling lonely and miserable. One evening, while aimlessly walking down Manhattan Street, he sees a restaurant with a comedy club downstairs. Admission requires a $15 cover charge, but if you sign up to perform, the cover charge is waived.
So he signs up, because he doesn't have the cash. When his name is called and he gets on stage, he has no clue what to do. He freezes for a while, and then starts talking about the current state of his life. I think I'm getting a divorce.
What took me off was that I'm living in an apartment on my own. Yeah, and my wife can get something there. That was probably the biggest clue. Will Arnett, welcome back to Fresh Air.
Thank you for coming today, and that scene is so good. It's so much fun to watch you feel so uncomfortable, and you're actually very funny, even though you're totally insecure and unprepared to be doing stand-up at that point in your story. So I know in preparation you went to comedy club open mic nights. Did you stay in the audience or perform?
No, I performed. I went to the comedy cellar almost every night for about six weeks and performed under the name of Alex Novak. Kind of in an attempt to understand what it was like, A, to do stand-up, because I'm not a stand-up, and I'd never done it before, and B, to see what it was like to do it through the eyes of somebody who's never performed in any capacity, really. So that was the assignment for me.
Why didn't people recognize you? Well, I think some did, very. Some people recognized me and were confused as to what I was doing, because they'd introduce me as Alex Novak, and I'd sort of reinforce that, say, hi, I'm Alex Novak, and people would laugh nervously, the people who did recognize me. The people who didn't recognize me, I guess, was just because I'm not a fan of my films or TV shows.
Certainly people were, you know, a lot of my set, especially that first set that you played in the clip, where I'm talking about getting divorced, I think it did confuse people, and people would be Googling me in real time trying to figure out what was going on, thinking like, oh, wait, I didn't know this guy got married again. Did you try to be good or tried to be stumbling? Well, I tried to be sensitive to the material. So I was using sets that we'd written for the film, so I go out and I'd do the first set, and then during the day, I'd be at home a couple blocks away in New York, rewriting the sets and trying to figure out, really trying to get it to a place that worked for the context that we were looking for, which is this guy who's never done it before.
So I'd go and I'd rework it and rework it, and then, you know, one night I might go out and go around the corner of the underground, all part of the comedy cellar, and do the third set, and then go around the corner, downstairs to the underground, and do the first set again, and just keep working on these various sets, but always try to track, you know, his development as a stand-up, and so that all of those pieces work, and not just his development as a stand-up, because those sets are also affected by where Alex is in our story, and where he is in, you know, with his relationship with his, with his estranged wife, and all these things, and they all affect how he performs and how he is on stage. You know, the kind of story this is about two people who are dissatisfied with their lives at the moment, and are, like, looking for a new sense of identity, which they feel they're lacking, why did you want to, like, tell the story from a more middle-aged point of view? And I know it's based on a real comic, and, you know, a British comic, who I think is well-known in England, but not here, John Bishop is his name. What appealed to you about the idea of a middle-aged couple looking to, like, find new identities and find some satisfaction in their work?
First of all, when I met John Bishop, he told me the story of how he became a stand-up, and, you know, he has a very successful stand-up in the UK. He's a really funny guy. He's a really funny stand-up. I was drawn less to the idea of him kind of becoming successful out of nowhere, and more to the idea of he found a thing that allowed him to kind of reconnect to himself and his wife.
He had gotten so far down the road in his life, and that he and his partner, his wife, Mel, he described that there was no big event, that there was nothing that they had just simply, you know, you can say whatever you want, grew apart, but they weren't communicating. And they were frustrated in their lives, and they were frustrated with their lot, but they didn't have the language to even talk to each other anymore. And that was the thing that really got me. So we ended up, you know, we focused less on, in our story, Alex does not become a famous stand-up.
But John told me recently that for him, you know, that becoming a successful stand-up was really the icing on the cake, which was reconnecting with his wife, with Mel. And so that stuck with me. I don't think it's uncommon. I think it's a real reflection of what a lot of people who are middle-aged, I guess, do go through.
And you get, I think that sometimes you get resigned to the idea that this is your lot, and this is what it's going to be. And sometimes it's really a matter of you need to find the language or to start to really connect with who you are. There's a scene, and I don't think I'm giving too much away here, when they're trying to stay together or get back together, where your character asks his wife, he said, like, I know there's a couple therapy that, like, one of the standard questions is, tell me something about myself that you hate about me. And I think, like, that's the kind of thing that could really go bad.
I can imagine that becoming a real nightmare. I can also see a bit of, like, self-reflection being the result of that, and self-knowledge that you weren't aware of before. I'm wondering if you've ever tried that approach, and how did it go? I think that there is, for my own life, at this stage, I'm much more willing to be honest about where I am, and certainly Bradley and I is something that we talk about, which is really important.
It's something to maybe sort of avoid when you're younger, I think. And as you get older, you just kind of get to the point where, like, you might as well just say and be honest. And you have to allow people to have their own reaction to what you say. And sometimes, so to instigate that, you have to say, like, all right, tell me the thing.
Like, just, what is the thing that I do that drives you crazy? Just say it. And at the risk of blowing it all apart. And I think that's really important.
I think I'm much more willing to get into deep water now myself than I was when I was a younger man, for sure. I'd like to offer an example of that from having heard you talk about this on SmartList, your podcast with Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman. And Bradley Cooper was the guest on this episode. And of course, Bradley Cooper, the Reddiger new film, is this thing on.
So Bradley Cooper had been talking about how he really admired how angry some of your jokes were, that you would joke with people and say things that, you know, sounded angry in general or angry at them. But you were so funny and you knew these people so well that it was just, like, great fun. So he figured, okay, I'm going to fit in by doing something similar. Except it didn't come off that way.
It just came off as, like, really rude. And so what I'd like to do is play a clip from that episode of SmartList and hear what Bradley Cooper had to say. And then I want to ask you your perspective on it. Okay?
Okay, here it is. And he was like, hey man, do you remember we had dinner the other night? He goes, how'd you think that went? And I was like, I remember being at the dinner thinking I was so funny.
And I thought these two guys who are my heroes were so, thought that I was so funny. I don't know if you remember this one. You're like, I was like, oh, I thought it was great. I thought it was great.
And Will, and he's like, you were a real a**hole, man. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah. And by the way, have your dogs gone out to the bathroom?
And I was like, what? What time is it? It's four o'clock. Oh, no.
I think they have to go to bed and they're literally standing by the door. And that was like the first time I realized I had a problem with drugs and alcohol. And I'll just never forget it. I was like, oh, the guy that I think is doing mean humor is telling me the truth about that.
And it was like, it changed my entire life. And that moment was when I stopped pursuing this sort of mean humor thing. Wow. I was like, yeah.
Do you remember that, Will? Yeah, I do remember that, yeah. Okay, so that was Bradley Cooper on the podcast Smart List, which Will Arnett co-host with Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman. Were you surprised he told that story?
And I really want to hear your perspective on it. And I'm curious, like, what made you think that it would go okay and be helpful? Because there's the flip side of that coin. It could go really terribly and he could just be very resentful of you and angry at you and just kind of dig in deeper in defiance.
Well, yeah. I mean, it saved his life, but you don't know the outcome when you go into it. Well, it's funny. I mean, I don't know if it saved his life.
First of all, he did it all. I didn't save his life. I did not know he was going to bring it up, of course. And I was surprised, but I'm also not surprised because Bradley is somebody who having said that, I think that is an example of that day when I went into his place and we had that conversation.
I had to be willing to risk it all because I love him. And, you know, I wanted him to be okay. And I know what it takes that sometimes you have to, you know, be really honest within reason. I don't want to hurt him.
I'm not there to judge him for what he's doing. I'm there to be as honest as I can because I want him to figure out a way. And luckily for me, but also mostly for him, he was open enough to the idea of this. And that's really a testament to him and his ability to recognize in that moment.
It's got nothing to do with me. I'm just a messenger and I'm just, you know, the only reason I did that is because I've been a beneficiary of so many great people in my life in incredible relationships that I have, especially with a lot of great men in my life who've been honest and loving to me. Your voice, I don't think it's just me the way I hear it. Your voice has gotten deeper over the years.
Am I right about that? Yeah, probably. I think, has yours? Oh, my voice has completely changed.
Yeah. I mean, I just thought I'd be higher, I think. Really, you think it's gotten higher? No, no.
In the past it was when I started. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because I noticed it with Howard Stern, who I've known for a long time Who do you work for, Terry? The tobacco industry.
So is how you're cast differently with the lower voice? Well, you know, when I was, I think I always had a kind of a gravelly or whatever you want to call it, sandpaper-y, some people might call it annoying voice. I would not. There were people, and so when I was younger, when I first moved to New York, I had, I looked much younger than my age.
I had sort of a baby face, and weirdly enough, I knew back then that it was going to, that it didn't quite match, and it was maybe going to affect getting roles. At least that's what I would tell myself if I didn't get a role because of my voice. So it took a while to kind of grow, I think, grow into it a little bit. I think your voice probably helped you get all the voiceover work.
Sure. That was basically the way you made a living for several years. Yes. Yeah, and so you were so funny with Conan O'Brien on his TBS show, and you're both so funny.
So I want to play a clip from that show, and that goes back a few years to 2021, and you were talking about your voiceover work, and then you demonstrated some of your voices. So, okay, and we'll hear Andy Richter, Conan's sidekick on that show, say a few words during the clip. So here's you and Conan O'Brien in 2021. You've got the best pipes in the business.
His voice is so incredible. I try to get voiceover work, and I'm like, buy this product. That's the response I get. Well, they also like the ads to be more specific.
Yeah, that's true. That was a little bit. But that's obviously for Granny Smith apples. I know, yeah, Granny Smith apples are real good.
No, I do. Voiceover is a great thing, and I do a lot, and actually, to be honest, coming here today, I'm kind of behind on a couple of jobs. I just, you know, would you mind, while I'm here, because you guys are mic'd up and stuff, would you mind if I just did a couple? Do you want to do some voiceover work?
Don't worry about it. I don't think it's appropriate. You guys have a lot of equipment here, and I brought my set up. I brought my set up.
I can't believe I didn't see that back now. Just a little. So you're going to just do a voiceover or two? I'm just going to do a couple things, and just stay with it.
Three, two, one. Innovative, creative, and tough as nails. That's the American spirit, and that's the all-new GMC Sierra 1500 pickup truck. Okay.
We're going to keep rolling here because we're rolling here. Rolling, rolling, rolling. Hey, girl, I love your smile. Crest white strips.
That's good. We're banging them out. We're banging them out. We're not done here.
Hang on. We're still rolling here. Here we go. Three, two, one.
Flenneman's racist butter. Spread it all around. Wait a minute. That couldn't be a product.
Is that butter for racist people, or is the butter itself racist? I don't know. I do not know, and I don't care as long as the check clears. Okay, so what's your...
That's so great. And the first one we heard was for GMC. trucks and you've done a lot or you did a lot of voiceovers for them and you know it's done in the style of like a rugged man who likes driving over tough terrain and wants a vehicle that can handle it so you have a voice for that but do you ever feel like that kind of man great question it's not necessarily how i see myself but yeah i still um i still work with i still do the uh i'm the voice of gmc trucks and it's something i'm really proud of it's been a long time i've been i've been doing um i've been doing the ads for gmc since 1998 yeah i've been with gmc trucks since actually this is the anniversary month december of 1998 and i never realized it was you yeah yeah well because my voice changed um maybe but i do it is something that's um yeah i love there's something that i like first of all i love i love working with the brand and um they're great trucks i mean look they're very they are professional grade yeah does it hurt your throat to do that no the only time that it really gets straight got strained was uh in that way where it didn't hurt but i had to be careful was when i was doing uh the lego animated films and we did two lego films and a lego batman film standalone film and doing the voice of lego batman for extended periods of time was stressful so i would book a i'd do a session and then i'd have to make sure that i had nothing to do for the rest of the day and basically wouldn't talk because there was you know it was hours in there going through the script and doing stuff and um as this as that then i guess as well arnett he co-wrote and stars in the new film is this thing on we'll continue the interview and our tv critic david biancouli will look back on the year in tv after a short break i'm terry gross and this is fresh air this is fresh air i'm terry gross let's get back to my interview with will arnett he co-wrote and stars in the new film is this thing on which was directed by his longtime friend bradley cooper who also co-stars in the film arnett is best known for his starring roles in arrested development bojack horseman and the lego batman movie he also co-hosts the comedy podcast smartless with his friends jason bateman who also starred in arrested development and sean hayes who has a small part in is this thing on when we left off we were talking about his voiceover work in addition to bojack and lego batman he's done the voices of characters in monsters versus aliens as well as voiceovers for countless ads how about your voice on bojack horseman where you play this is a world of um showbiz with animals and birds portraying the characters and you're a horse who when the series starts is like a washed up actor who was briefly famous for his role when sounds like a pretty bad sitcom and he sits at home in the first episode watching videos of his old show and he's bitter he drinks too much and it's such a funny series like satirizing everybody in show business the agents the directors the actors and all of their insecurities did you do something with your voice for that character no it's funny because that's one of those ones where i've had people say wow you you really sound like bojack and i'm like well yeah it's my voice and you want you went to bojack to sound more human probably too because he's already not human so you have to humanize him yeah that's exactly right there's nothing going on with the fact that he's a horse and that's animated so i think it was important to just try to the way he spoke to be much more naturalistic did parts of bojack's life remind you of your own when you were at a low point no and it's funny it's a question i get all the time there were times when people would uh i remember like there's like photos in my house went online and people would say like it just looks like bojack's house and i just think that's so absurd there's a lot of like retrofitting going on about bojack and trying to hang it on my life and uh they're very very different i love making that show rafael bob waxberg's an incredible writer the guy who created it just an amazing guy and uh wonderfully written and i love every moment of it but it's had this sort of strange afterlife and i think a lot of that is due to the fact that a lot of people responded to it which is amazing but i also think there's this kind of rush to people to try to connect dots that aren't there sure we always do that when we project a character life onto the actor who's portraying that and i do that maybe too much when i interview actors you know because i always want to kind of connect the life and work to see what created the sensibility that we love in the performer and you know i think i probably hit a lot of wrong notes and trying to do that well no it's not right i think that's natural but i mean that's the work right like that's the job is to try to figure out certainly for as a performer you are trying to find moments where you can connect with it um but at the same time the job is to try to figure out a way to find your way into to you know portray that character and it's funny it's like i did a show rest of development for many years where i played characters completely untethered to reality i've heard of that show and and so i played a character called joe joe bluth he's a failed illusionist um and he's very again like i said untethered and he doesn't know how to live in this world that we live in and it's funny that people go oh yeah you know you there are parts of bojack i'm sure is that you or is that you and i'm like well why don't they say that about joe or a character i played on 30 rock or and who knows why because it was more absurdist obviously it's about an actor too and also also bojack was it was an actor and yeah exactly yeah so i i do get that but uh you know apart from that it's just no recent development was like your big breakthrough right 100 100 how did it change your life um how long is this program i'm looking in every way every possible way yeah i mean that was 2003 and i'd been living in new york for about 13 years at that point and leading up to the rest of the few years leading up i'd had a bunch of pilots i'd had a series that went on the air and aired twice and it was canceled and i'd i'd had tons of frustrations like a lot of other performance my story's not that different just you know it's tough out there etc and um and arrested development came along and uh really changed my life so when you got the script however much you got for arrested development before the edition did you have any sense of how to play the character it's such a quirky way that you play him and you know he's kind of like lost in his own world he uses his like little magic tricks in some totally inappropriate ways like this is not the time for you to like bargain and do a trick um and so you know your performance the way like you shaped the words on the page and embodied it physically just being given a script it's probably hard to do that without all the other actors there and without really understanding how unusual a series it was and how off-kilter the comedy was well yeah i'll take it a step further i didn't even have the benefit of reading the full script i was given a sort of a slight character breakdown i suppose that didn't really say how he behaved it just kind of said who he was he was the eldest of four kids of this family that had fallen on hard times that their father had lost all their money etc and i was set these sides so the thing that i grabbed onto and i was really lucky you know every once in a while something comes along that you just there's something about that kind of grabs you there's a line in it there's a scene where um my character job enters a scene where uh the character michael played by jason bateman is talking to the captain of this ship and michael says to job something the effect of you know uh how are you job and on the page it's written incredible i'm having an incredible year and it was so i don't know why it was so funny to me i just kind of got it for whatever reason and i just remember and i did in the audition and subsequently in in the pilot i just understood the bravado of that who who says that right about their when they're asked how are you and i just thought what what a kind of sociopathic blowhard goes goes incredible i'm having an incredible year right it says so much it's clearly somebody who is you know covering up for a lot of deep pain um and i just got and that was it it was that line it was my entry point for for the character of job my guest is will arnett he stars in the new film is this thing on we'll be right back after a short break this is fresh air this is fresh air let's get back to my interview with will arnett he co-wrote and stars in the new movie is this thing on let's talk about your formative years your father james arnett or jim arnett i don't know yeah okay so he was a graduate of harvard and he was for a few years president and ceo of molson breweries um so when you i know a lot of people they look at their parents lives and they think i want a different life and your life is very different you're both very successful but um you went in an opposite direction not corporate not law and it's a more artistic world did you feel like he led an interesting life but you wanted a different life or did you see his life as it must be uncomfortable to be asked this question when your father's alive um so i realize i don't want you to i don't want to ruin your relationship with your father no no um no i'll do that um you'll be you'll run it yourself i don't do any help no no my dad you know i have a lot of respect for what my dad did my dad came from um both his parents were teachers um and his dad at one point was a was a teacher in a one-room schoolhouse on you know manitoba not even in winnipeg and my dad worked really hard and he got everywhere on his own merits you know he got into harvard on his own he became a partner at this law firm in uh in toronto on his own as a kid from winnipeg um and he didn't uh he didn't have a fancy background so i've always respected how much of a sort of a self-made guy he is and he's always you know my dad said to me once i asked him once years ago um he's you know he's long since retired and um i said to him i said why didn't you move to the states because you could have made a lot more money in the corporate world as i see you know you see how ceos are compensated in this country and how absurd it is and he said because i have an obligation to give back to the system that allowed me to come up and that's the kind of guy he is you went to a prep boarding school and you were expelled for being a troublemaker what kind of trouble did you get into you um a lot of it was terry i'm a lot of the smoking related um what were you smoking yeah i was never like a real sort of weed guy um it was it was smoking um kind of bad grades because i was goofing off um defying curfews uh all stuff like that and uh there were a group of us and i think that they just at a certain point people said oh you were kicked out and i always maintained that i was asked not to return there's a real distinction there terry but uh so yeah it never really it's funny i went i went to boarding school when i was 12 and again my dad who came up through public school system in winnipeg um my dad was really he was a little reluctant to send me there because he thought it was a bunch of rich kids and uh he struggled with it this idea because he was bound and determined that uh even though he did well and he was successful that we weren't going to that his kids weren't going to be a bunch of spoiled brats and that was important to him and so when i left he wasn't all that he wasn't all that upset i left to be honest you were mostly known for comedic roles and although in the new film is this thing on you play somebody who is just getting started in comedy um there are funny moments in the movie but it's also just a character study about how people change and come together and then maybe break apart and then come together or not so you didn't intend to be a comedic actor as far as i know you wanted to be a dramatic actor did you have to learn things like you have great comic timing and you're naturally funny and i've heard you on smart list you're really funny on that did being funny in real life was that mostly like your training to be um funny in roles i didn't have any training and uh there have been times where i regretted that i wasn't like a sketch group or that i do improv as part of an improv group in some sort of more formal setting you know a lot of my friends came up through second city and improv olympic of chicago etc well that includes amy polar who you were married to that's right and she created a bright citizens brigade which has been an incredible training grant for plenty of really successful and funny people who we all know so i you know i do wish that i had that at the same time yeah i kind of fell backwards into comedy i wanted to be a serious actor i'd gone to least crossberg you know i i was young and i thought that i wanted to do stuff that would sort of be um i don't know important or dramatic or emotional whatever that heck it was at that age and then i started reading sitcom pilots because i need to pay the rent and uh weirdly enough i was i started doing that kind of 24 25 at the time i thought well i'm not going to do a sitcom it's like beneath me because i knew nothing at that age right just and it's so hilarious now to think back how embarrassing that position is but anyway and i started reading for for sitcoms and um and that doing that i was like oh you know okay and i could kind of understand the timing there was something about that i kind of got can you look back to your first audition how nervous were you what was the part what was your confidence level how did you present yourself even if it was a kind of front you were putting on did you present yourself as confident did you dress for the role i can think the night before i can think back on a lot of those early auditions like first sort of paying gigs for like a sitcom and being very nervous and almost like out of body like feeling not being present and just because i'm so nervous but i also think that like in the last year you know doing this movie has reminded me a lot it brought me back to that place i feel much closer to that kid i was when i was 20 when i first moved to new york and you know doing something like this where all the stand-up stuff aside which was its own kind of thing but doing all these scenes that were really vulnerable and revealing and felt very uh scary and you know it's funny nervous and excitement those two senses they're really close to each other and so i was i was excited but i also didn't know and i realized now as i'm older that i don't have all the answers and i'm not sure if i knew how to do it and i was scared i was intimidated at 54 and i've been doing this a long time and i was you know i was unsure if i could do it if i could be available in that way um be vulnerable in that way to in these scenes um i can remember being a younger man and being a younger actor feeling nervous and i kind of am back to that now which is i think i've shed a lot of that stuff and hopefully a lot of the ego stuff over the last year especially doing this movie where i've it's good to feel nervous well arnett it's been a pleasure to talk with you thank you so much congratulations on the new film thank you so much i really appreciate it well arnett co-wrote and stars in the new film is this thing on after we take a short break tv critic david biancouly will look back on the year in tv this is fresh air this is fresh air our tv critic david biancouly is taking a look back at the year in television but he says he's not doing a top 10 list because there's been way too much good tv to limit to just 10 titles and he's not doing the best of the year list because he says it's impossible to have seen everything but he's seen a lot of everything i saw on tv in 2025 the one show i thought was the very best and has haunted me ever since was the four-part netflix drama adolescence it's the story of a young teen accused of murdering a classmate and it's told in such a way emotionally and technically that i can't and won't forget it it's the show i recommend most highly but with a major caveat it's grim and it's almost unbearably intense intense intense today, it turns out, is a common factor among many of my very favorite shows from this year. HBO Max's The Pit was a medical show with an impressively credible tension factor.
So was Netflix's The Diplomat, with its unpredictable, high-stakes plot twists. And so was FX's The Bear, even though it wasn't about life or death, just appetizers and entrees. The Bear even called itself a comedy, but it's not. Much, much too dramatic for that.
A couple of my other favorite TV dramas, almost equally intense, featured ragtag mismatched investigative teams thrown together to solve specific crimes. One, HBO's Task, was headed by a brooding, intelligent guy with lots of emotional baggage, played by Mark Ruffalo. Another, Netflix's Department Q, was headed by a brooding, intelligent guy with even more emotional baggage, played by Matthew Goode. His character is returning to work after being shot and almost killed.
And at first, he's openly hostile to his police-appointed therapist, played by Kelly MacDonald, who's as sharp and brittle as he is. Have you been feeling depressed, Carl? No more than normal. If I was shot in the face, I might feel depressed.
I might feel angry. Not me. It's all good then. For my anger.
So no need for me to ask about anxiety or sleep problems, because, of course, you've experienced none of that. I don't sleep much anyway. So then, this is just a giant waste of our time. Well, those are your words, not mine.
And maybe it's just me, but this year, I definitely gravitated to dramatic shows that made me uneasy. It was another great season for Netflix's Black Mirror, and the end-of-year final episode of another dark Netflix fantasy series, Stranger Things, is eagerly awaited by many. Including me, because I've seen all the new episodes leading up to it, but the finale is being kept under wraps. That show's been around since 2016, almost a decade.
But other terrific genre shows were new takes on old ideas. Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein on Netflix was an excellent and very different adaptation. And what Noah Hawley did by reinventing the Alien movie franchise for the FX TV series Alien Earth was thrilling, and at times, truly scary. And still turning out weekly episodes, brilliant ones, is Pluribus, the new, indescribably original Apple TV sci-fi series from Vince Gilligan.
The comedies I like best this year? Some were set behind the scenes of showbiz, like the new Apple TV series The Studio, starring Seth Rogen as a bumbling but well-meaning studio head, and the returning HBO Max series Hacks, starring Jean Smart as a female comic landing a job as a TV talk show host. The other comedies were lighthearted mysteries benefiting greatly from their veteran cast members. Hulu's Only Murders in the Building and Netflix's A Man on the Inside.
Both of those shows made me feel good, which is a lot to ask of any TV show these days. Nonfiction TV also offered many excellent options this year. Artistic profiles to seek out from 2025 include Apple TV's Mr. Scorsese about film director Martin Scorsese, and HBO's Pee-wee as himself about actor Paul Rubens.
Most recently, there's the short but powerful Netflix documentary All the Empty Rooms, about a TV feature reporter and photographer who visit the families of children killed during school shootings to memorialize the children's empty but still intact bedrooms. It's as tough to watch as adolescents, and oddly, touches on a similar subject. TV reporter Steve Hartman talks about the power of visiting these bedroom shrines, trapped in time, and saying so much with their silence. The whole point of this is to not have to say much.
I just want people to see the pictures, and just let the pictures speak for themselves. Other great documentaries this year included Sunday Best, a new Netflix program about Ed Sullivan's contributions to popularizing black entertainers, PBS's The American Revolution, the latest and perhaps greatest epic history lesson from Ken Burns and company, and the new installment of The Beatles Anthology, presented by Disney+. On talk shows, I loved the feisty, topical spirit invoked by Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel, John Stewart, Seth Meyers, and John Oliver, and especially the well-aimed irreverence of the current season of Comedy Central South Park. Wow.
Many of these shows were attacked or censored by their corporate owners in well-publicized clashes that exposed and fought against the interference. The CBS late-show franchise is being retired from the schedule, but most of the time this year, the comics and their programs persevered. Finally, my favorite TV moment of 2025 came courtesy of CNN. Not for a news bulletin, but for televising Live from Broadway, a production of Good Night and Good Luck, starring George Clooney as veteran CBS newsman Edward R.
Murrow. At the end of the play, Clooney recites Murrow's actual speech to news and TV executives from 1958, urging them to use TV wisely. These instruments can teach, they can illuminate, they can even inspire. But they can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use them to those ends.
Otherwise, they're merely wires and lights in a box. In the year 2025, the best of television, from the American Revolution to adolescence, is living up to Ed Murrow's inspirational ideals. We all just have to find the best that's out there. Then, find the time to watch it.
David Bianculli is Fresh Air's TV critic. Tomorrow, we kick off our end-of-the-year series, featuring a few of our favorite interviews of the year, with Mitch Albom, whose book Tuesdays with Maury became a best-selling memoir and was adapted into an Emmy-winning film. His latest novel, Twice, is about a man who discovers he can relive any moment, but must accept the consequences of reliving it. I hope you'll join us.
To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Yanni Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Odi Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Bricker.
Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberto Shora, Anne-Marie Bordenato, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Lea Chaloner, Anna Bauman, and Nico Gonzalez-Wissler. Our digital media producer is Molly C.D. Nesper. Susan, you can be directed today's show.
Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.