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Welcome to the new books network. Hello, welcome to the new books in History channel of the new books network podcast. I am your host, Ari Barbellat. Today, I am honored to engage in a dialogue with Yolanda A.
Shella Cabre. We will discuss her recently published book, Spain's African colonial legacies. Morocco and Equatorial Guinea compared published in Leiden, Netherlands by Brill, 2022. Yolanda holds a PhD in anthropology.
She is a senior researcher in the IMF CSIC, the institution Vila Yifontinales, the Investigacion and Humani Dares, and the Consejo Superior de Investigaciones, Cien tificos, the Spanish Council for Scientific Research. Yolanda, it's an honor to be in dialogue with you today. Thank you, Ari. I'm very happy to be here today with you.
To begin, please tell us about yourself, where did you grow up? But for events in your life inspired the scholar you would later become. Well, I'm a Catalan and I grew up in Barcelona. And I was fortunate to come from a family where studies were fundamental.
My mother had two university degrees in history of art and cultural anthropology. And my father was a representative for the divisions in travel, and travel through content to Africa and the Middle East. So no one was surprised in my family when I decided to spend three months studying Arabic at World War University in Donnes when I watched them the years old. And in fact, this travel study was possible thanks to the health, no?
And that was, that was where I started a long academic career that began as well as the analytical and political member of Barcelona, continued as a system professor at the University of Alicante, and ended as a researcher at the state that is the place where I'm working now. What inspired you to write this book? What message do you hope to convey to readers? Well, I want to change the fact that Spanish colonialist in Africa received a little attention because it was a little bit of an empire in the continent.
My book is about the Spanish marginality in the Boraia, and favors new connections by comparative perspective. I thought that this is doing an historical reconstruction of two African cities, and Bata in the Cotere de la Dina. Both allow me to trace the different strategies of your characterization, as well as racial and ethnic segregation that's been activated in its African territories, and that emerged as both colonial and Hispanic footprints. I thought that studying contested cultural heritage from the colonial and colonial studies highlights the weight of memories in local history, show my research focused on globalization, and rational ethnic identification, and contested cultural heritage against colonial imprints in prints as a way to rewrite global and national histories.
With this objective, I studied the appearance of an animal slurfiit in emblematic colonial sites in Acozema, and the centricity of a square with a colonial past in Dérez of Mathias and Gemma, and Obyan Gemma, the purictators of Ecuador Dina, as I will explain you later. What inspired you to write this book? What message do you hope to convey to readers? Well, the study has measured the impact of Spanish colonialist in the history of the two cities, and its legacies, which are in both cases strongly interwined with their national histories.
Among the books in the larger objectives were the detailed analysis of the rollout of Spanish colonization and its ideologies, and the study of the repressive mechanism is promoted, reconstructing the local histories of the Acozema, prevalent legacies in terms of racial celebration, territorial layout, processes of subordination, territorial unification, cultural homo-genization, and of course violence, there were a lot of violence. I have sought to explain the revision of collective memories of the past in the press, as a form of the colonization that seeks to build different foundations for the future, putting them on a concerned quadrillionist voices and experience in the middle of the history. I hope the book could open nearly by each in comparative anthropology and the colonial studies, putting African people on the map of the global history, and this was the center of my three maritames. What are the primary themes in your book?
What story and stories does your book tell? Well, here the general aim of the book was to explain that the African cities of Pata in the Quadrillion and Acozema in Morocco were created during the Spanish colonial role and settled by Spanish people, not the African one. My book constructs their local history by taking a comparative perspective to explain how Spanish colonialism worked, what its legacies were, and in Prince it left under national histories. Historical approach to the cities includes the postcolonial imprints that permeate foreign political histories of the Coteurigin and Morocco, in terms of the rhetorical outlines and the management of ethnic diversity, as a contemporary history of Morocco and the Coteurigin and the Catholic people who are left by Spanish colonialists.
So my interest is presenting Bata in Acozema as examples of cities that projected the postcolonial identity that was global in nature and give centrality to historically marginal regions as a worm, in these cases. What was your general aim in writing this book? Well, this general aim was exactly this one, this position, the central position of the contest cultural heritage and this contested notion of to be part of the countries from the marginal that imply this construction of these national identities, nomads, being a minority as a worm, in the case of the African people, in the case of the end of the war, as I will explain later. Do you have specific aims that you can clearly detail for us?
Well, sure, I did tell you very clearly in the book five, the first aim was to determine the importance of the Spanish colonization of Bata and Acozema to the postcolonial consolidation of the two cities, as was considered as the greatest resource of the European Organization of Processes in Africa, and both the two social dynamics characterized by discriminatory practices. The second objective was more specific also, was to clarify whether the contestation of certain emblematic monuments or spaces identified by the citizens as cultural editors showed to contextualize the colonized local and national histories. The third objective was to evaluate the post-independence impact of Spanish colonization of Morocone, Portugal, and in assessing whether the contemporary identity, identity, consolidation processes of the two cases that can be understood as Spanish in the left of their independence, because it was very important to see these dynamics now from the colonization to later the independence. And the fourth objective was to address Spanish colonial rhetoric around the colonization of these two African cities, and the fifth and the final one were related to gender, and the effect of Spanish colonization of women in both cities.
So I thought that it wasn't necessary to show that we can have very concrete aims to redevelop and to detail much better the content of the study. What is this book, Decolonized History? Well, I have to say, I was inspired by Stoleira and Modimba. You know, the last unfortunately recently passed away a few times a few days ago, maybe one week or 10 days, it was very Russian.
But I have inspired those very interesting researchers. And the book seek to the need to decolonize memories and histories, no? Only this way we can limit the confusion caused by the circulation of colonial be-as-as-brat of the world. And this book, you refer that you are writing a study of the margins of Africa and of Spain.
What do you specifically mean? Well, just to show, the work seeks to explore the March in the southeast of the Spanish colonial cartography, to resize the effects of Spanish colonization in the region considered secondary and peripheral for Spanish, which therefore lay on the edges of its small African colonial empire. The reconstruction of the history of the cities that grew up in the Spanish shadow made visible that both were built internally, populated by national minorities, the rifians on the one hand and in the way from the other, and that these people was also mineralized by the larger and the cities of their own countries, the Arab and Morocco and the foreign people in the border of the New York. And finally, I remember that the growth of Al-Kosaiman but in the 20th century considered an illustrated, a large number of First-Colonel Organization processes in Africa.
So I think that when I was doing this work, I was offering an example of other cities that also appear in many places of Africa and that have also no story written until today. This is your study, Advanced or Understanding of Modern West African and Northwest African History. Yes, thank you very much. I think this is actually interesting because usually the people that study Africa, usually they study only in North Africa and all the shops are in Africa.
But it's not many people trying to do more putting things together. I think for example, Daniela Merola, which is a colleague of Finaco, Professor of Anthropology, too, but it's not very usual. In my case, in this book, the research takes a comparative perspective in order to distinguish similarities and differences between colonial and post-colonial and in prints in North African and South Africa. Although the study also allows the similarities to be a recipe between Spanish colonialists and that of other colonial nations, such as France, that has a lot of studies, no?
Not that Spain, the colonial French legacies, no? But I am neglecting history based on plurality that links together, if you take what you're going to end in Spanish experience, you know? So I think that in this case, it's true that it's very innovative, it's a very innovative result. It's something that was outlined by my reviewers, no?
And they also said that was one of the merits of the book. Does this book offer a new hypothesis? Well, I think so, yes. This book looks like in cultural anthropology and historical anthropology, and it proposed to new, or main original hypothesis, if you prefer.
The first is that a greater centrality about an Alcurséma achieved after independence came about thanks to the settlement by Feng and the Fianpopulations, who's a strength that ethnic identity sought national and global recognition. The second hypothesis is that the social contestation noted in specific urban spaces in Baca, Alcurséma, that was the sites of major colonial and post-colonial historical events, constitute expressions of citizen accountability towards the memories of the past. The sites for a localized ethnic centrality and the analysis of contestation of cultural editors reveal a lively and dynamic collective memory that finds ways to respond to ethnic and national challenges and historical obstacles that related 13 populations to marginality. Contributing to the role cities play into these states and studying memory simple derivatives are for me to challenge for post-colonial and colonial studies and global history in a world in which cultures have been deterred at the real estate in the terms of a padurai, but also reconfigured even beyond borders in the line of researchers like Bertubin.
Are there other characteristics that make your book innovative? Well, I think so, yes. My book offers an innovative way to promote studies and local histories. It also promotes deep knowledge on Spanish colonialism in Morocco and Ecuador, and approaches to the solid white-to-relate cities, colonial memories, gender, and these women and the people that are deceased to the 25th century, political challenges of Ecuador and Morocco, because it is not only a study of the past, they chose to speak the present.
And the fact is that all these elements are interwined in the book by the powerful powerful axis, the first one colonialities, the second globalization, the third contest that called the relatives and the fourth, the ethnic and national identities. On the other hand, they use the colonial perspective and tools allows a large support at the same level, diverse boys, diverse boys of riffians, morocons, and quadrificans, and Spaniards altogether, promoting a more balanced colonial and post-colonial story based on global history in the search of a more balanced narrative in the three countries, because nowadays it's the European narrative of what's going on in Africa, is what is appearing with much more force. Now we have to counteract the balanced story that we have about what was the colonial African. On the other hand, there are many cities with no story written, as well as the case of Baden al-Kosaima.
So these work facilities and methodologies together and convene oral written and visual sources. And finally, a cossema has no republican at the same time that there are few non-reflection of the political and English. The reason why these work constitutes an opportunity to promote knowledge and some unknown areas from the Maghreb and Africa. Who did you write this book for?
Who do you have in mind as your ideal reader? Who do you have in mind as your imagined audience? Yes, this is a very good question too. In fact, the book is written for scholars and students from anthropology, history, and basic studies, or the people that study the Bible studies, but also Middle East and studies, African studies, sociology, political science, geography.
I think that's a cultural study, it's a cultural study, it's a cultural study, it's a memory study, but I would like to also recommend my book to Moro Canano, and the Quatergian peoples. And I say this because I've received a lot of congratulations from many people of countries, thanking me for writing this book and explaining their history, because they really felt that they were not represented by other works that exist today. In fact, because as I say, there weren't no written histories of these places. But it's true that my book is also for the African people.
Can you tell us about Figure 1 on page 27 and Figure 4 on page 29? Figure 1 shows a graffiti in Arco Seima, in the city of Arco Seima, and the figure 4 shows a building with a club in the top, the city of Vata. Those figures are very relevant as the book focuses on studying each city's contested cultural editors as an expression of the colonial contestation. Both figures are examples on the one hand, thinking the graffiti that appeared in Arco Seima in 2016 at the new point of the play of the grandmother, and on the other hand, we have the second figure, the figure 4, that was that it was to represent the political use of Pata's personal reloch during colonial and post-colonial times.
Both figures consider examples of these right-hand contestation cultural editors that seek to make visible individual and collective actions of structural political reclaiming as contested cultural editors as a form of protest that is exercised in emblematic places. A stunning contested cultural editors from the post-colonial studies first started, highlights the weight of memories in local histories, and this is what I can do with this Toki version. La Cala de la Camado, where the city was around, looks out over the little beach of Arco Seima. It was a starting point of the Spanish military capture of the Rifian Land and colonization of the nation in 1925.
Imagine that everybody knows that was a place where the Spanish people come inside the country. But also this little beach was the location, used by Hasran II to disembark his troops and cruise the Rif rebellion in 1965. So the Rifian people were fighting first by the presence of the Spanish people, not the colonization, but after the independence in Morocco in 1956, in 1983, 1959, the same regime were fighting against them, against all the Marocans in this case, in this case, there were Arabs, no? The capture of Hasran II and the Rif steamed from the Cala de la Camado 34 years apart must have been imprinted on the memories of those who lived through those attacks, the Spanish one and the Marocan one.
Ascent, the Chassan, the Rifian French because I always for those friends, but Hasran II occupation of Arco Seima is a established Cala de Camado as a unique location for whiteness in the conquest of the Rif. And by this time, the violence was inflicted by the Rifian and their home compatriots, not the Spanish. Now, have you pointed out where the rest of the other officials stopped to admire the spectacular views of the Mediterranean, Cala de Camado has become a location that provides a connection to the Spanish conquest of the city and the Mexican section of the second occupation. So this rapid displays that can be only understandable for the people of the city is very representative of what means to contest history, a history that goes against the people of the place.
I think it's very interesting with rapidity. I hope to answer your question. When you describe Table 24 on page 84? Yes, thank you for asking me also for this table.
Let me say that the book includes 50 tables with very useful informations of both cities and countries regarding population, education, work, ethnicities, etc. In this case, the table 24 offers a percentage of Spanish population in the main cities by 1933 sensors. No other city in the protectorate reaches the levels of Spanish representation that Aco Seima did. In 1933, Spanish made up 91% of its population, 91% imagine that, and this is incredible because, technically, this city was built, they saved 40 Americans for the refiance, not for the Spanish, but the Spanish were the 91% of people that was living in this place.
Comparing the number of Spaniards with the largest city in the protectorate that was another city, Taituan, we can see that despite concentrating the largest number of Spanish officials in the territory because of its position as a capital in the case of Taituan, their feet will remain far below that of Aco Seima, because Taituan was 24%. So Taituan, that was the capital of the Spanish protectorate, was theoretically the most number of officials and civil servants, etc. has only 25% of the population, but Aco Seima had 91%. I think that the half tables in the book was necessary to explain with very fast, you know, because one imagine or one data are very useful now to make visible something that was very, very surprising.
And you described the Iraq movement? Yes, sure, I can. Welcome to say, on one hand, that we have a massiness that was the logical political response to the historical and ethical position to the recognition in North Africa, not to these people that I haven't say, but I have to say that the young people are a massive people, it's a big family. So I address this vindication to our country in the past, it's not related to our here, but if you want to have an ancestor, know what's going on.
Have they cleaned? I have to say that some experts of his figure said that he never defends Amasygatin. So sometimes when we talk about that they'll dream, the experts say that it was not possible to think that that was somebody that was independent of Morocco, this was not the spirit of the claim, this is that experts say, but anyway, as nobody can talk with him, also we are limited now by the by the data and the document, but I have to say that this argument is is threatened by the contradictory legacy of the Supreme Republic of the Republic, which according to the biography of Valmariaga, certain not to show much the separation of Morocco as the rejection and expulsion of European colonies from the area. Well, we cannot be sure if the killing ones are not independent of the relief of the morocona, but what is true is that the other dream has been an inspiration for Al-Hidaka and Sharif Moll.
It's just because I said I have to start talking about about the other green. Well, what is Al-Hidaka shabby in Al-Hosaima in the city, after the death of a young fish seller that his name was Moshin Tikri, and it was October 8th, 2016. And this person was greeted to death by a garbage truck while trying to retreat goods confiscated by the police, the force with which the rebels broke out into the criminal protest over the biggest death with a strong emotional component and the way they agreed to the country is made cities such as Kaskasalanka, Tanya, Nador, Marradeh, Chagadir and Rabaj, you can see the press and you will say that there were a lot of young people going to the street because they felt I speak recently, you know, revealing that this content felt by young people from other cities and regions, but it was very surprising that people from out of the region area could be could feel related to this person. Anyway, there was a president for Fikri's death in Al-Hosaima that was also, whether or not it was a mother or what was going on, but there were found for people, young people at a bank in Al-Hosaima and it was 2011, I read it when, 20.
And it's true that in this case, this accident or this thing that happened in 2011, considered with the Arab screen, you know, the protest against political system that arise in many countries of the Arab world. So it's true that there was an uprising in Al-Hosaima, this one of the 2016 with this murder of the Fikri young men, mobilized the population, and ignited international press attention and created news for the Indian-Atlantic countries. At the 2017 demonstrations, the slogans were shown against the Moroccan government and in support of the reef, such as the Israeli missile dictatorship that is a war that is already Moroccan over the years, now because nobody wants to announce the king as a dictator or for example, another lemma that was reduced was one that was long-lived the reef, long-lived the reef, no, that's every bald issue. So you can see photos and the proclamations that were very damaging to our regime that we should maintain a good international image and convey that the domestic situation was under control.
But obviously everything finished, no, there were a lot of arrests, prisoners, transfers and impressionments meant to reduce the disease and retirement that challenged the maximum state, no, with the point-to-all release of some of the attendees of the demonstration was monitored by international human rights organizations. So anybody that is going to use can easily find information in Google, know what what what what's our fear of in in our course, and the reef at what implies for the whole country. On page 211, he read his follows. Furthermore, the graffiti represents the days of hope for change, changes that did not however come to pass, but were the breeding ground for the Riffian-Hirak protests of 2016.
Iraq managed to connect with the situations of injustice suffered by young people in precarious realities and indefinite limbo throughout the country. The just condemnation of the death of a young Riffian brought thousands of young people to the streets in many cities, but after the euphoria came the repression many changes were unforeseen and so the protest could not spread. Ultimately, the Riffians did not have enough in common with the young people because in reality they did not feel like them and neither did they feel Moroccan. The August 20th, 17th state of siege was imposed to prevent European Riffians from accessing the city.
If they tried, they risked being unable to leave again in time to return to their jobs. Protest leaders and supporters were jailed in prisons far away from Al-Hosayma to make attendance and family visits difficult all without royal forgiveness for the leaders of the revolt and especially so for the Zephzaffi. Can you say more about this? Well, yes, I think that you chose very well this paragraph because in very few words, I said that I should send this right very well.
What was the effect of this in 2017 uprising? You know, I said when I started I was a Catalan. I remember I said that I grew in Barcelona, and I suppose that I don't know, but I think that part of the world knows that the Catalan in 2017 wants to be independent from Spain, you know, and there were people doing a lot of demonstration in the streets with the flags, you know, with the stings, etc, etc. It was very interesting to see in parallel the process, it was not my intention in the book, but it's true that in the book sometimes I left some idea about what was going on in Catalonia, because the two processes were in parallel.
It's not comparable, no, the possibility is the real possibility that Catalonia have to be independent from Spain, that the real possibility is the half derived from Di Morroco because I remember to interview young, young, young, rippian men, men, and I remember that they say that, Yolanda, you know, these people that must be our leaders need more support and they need to know more etc. But anyway, I think that was very interesting to see how the two processes in the same time, thinking that there were part of the Ethiopian people that is in the Catalonia received support from Europe, no, in this case, well, you have to think also that there are many researchers that are studying precisely the connection of the domestic people in North Africa, not only in Morocco, also in Algeria, from Europe, no, from this meeting that when the parents went to the France or Belgium or Germany or Spain, no, basically Catalonia for the European people, and they, well, they started to learn different ways to do those things, to be active in politics, not, and to try to change the world in general and basically the original, their country of religion, so I think that it's interesting to see how after the repression of 2017, the surprising, the reaction of writing really disappeared, and this is something how I finished my book, meant this question. When you describe tables eight and nine on pages 49 and 50? Oh, yes, well, tables eight and nine refer to the percentage of white and black people according to the terms used by the colonial authorities, Spanish colonial authorities, and in the data of the colony.
The city was initially settled by only by Spaniards and other of the parents with the cotton and orange things, and I'm talking about that, obviously, and this changes, I think it's before independence when the provincialization started, this provincialization process, I don't know if you know a little of the story of Algeria regarding France, but there was a part of the final, coming to the end of the colonization of Algeria in, of France in Algeria, that is decided to convert Algeria as a department of France, no? And this is something that also staying copy in the case of the cotton and not trying to do this process or of provincialization. When this process started, that was in 1959, it's interesting because this cross-segregation that was in the city and the field number of cotton and people living in the city changed it and started to be more representative there. So I think that it's interesting that it was in this period exactly, and at the end of the colonization and when they arrived to the independence in 1968, that finally thanked people but also in the way they saw Shambobi, Tifernandino, that are different ethnic groups of the cotton and the finna finally occupied the whole city, until then the population was recently segregated in the Alexander, but not in the small communities that surround the city and were as well with during its expansion, so meaning carbon and the urban history allows us to compare cities that have traditionally received immigrants and also have been reconfigured more recently, considering forms of residential segregation and residential and ethnic and slaves.
So, but the social segregation that created as soon as colonization progresses, especially following each provincialization, this process, this political process that I was explaining, and above all, its consideration as an autonomous region that was in 1963 was that finally allowed that there were certain institutions, but immediately occupied by Ecuador and their cities. So these tables, another time I'm coming back to this table, no, I'm very useful because sometimes you can see that and with this data you can understand much better what was going on, which was the kind of the different people that were shopping the place, and with us in these tables, these these things, these things, you know, like white population that the Spanish authorities always do in the colonies, not in the African colonies. You tell us about figure four on page 29? Oh, yes, thank you very much.
We come back to the figure four because it's true that later I compare it to the one, but I stopped talking about it. It's true that this figure four is related to the contestation of the colonial heritage also, the Place de Rado de Rado, that is explained, no, that we can see this photograph in this figure is a remnant of that historical colonial heritage, bearing witness to many of the major events that have been taking place in the city and multiple political speeches. The clock door of the square that bears his name was undoubtedly a reference point. The major colonial parade passed through there and it hosted the books from which the authorities observed at various locations.
There are we have something and Spain that is the nodo, nodo. In the nodo there were short films about what was going on in many places, also in the colonies, and you can see different nodos, these short films of three or four minutes, while you will see this Spanish authorities sit in this place, so the place, how is it? The authorities during the nomadores colonial parade and this was a place chosen by Matthias en Gemma that was a fish dictator of the Cotere Gene, to assemble during the fish dictatorship, this fish dictatorship and contest the colonial regime. Well, I have no time and it's not the opportunity, it's much better that people read the book, no, but if you know the streets of Matthias en Gemma against the Spanish, well, it was incredible the things that he said in this place that know that was first occupied by the colonizers, no.
After Matthias en Gemma came of young Gemma, it was a family, a person related to Matthias en Gemma, he is now the dictator of Cotere Gene, and he was arrested until Matthias en Gemma, but not directly, but he came with the order. I know Guillain-Gemma later named this place the square, Pla Favella Liverta, he changed the name because he wanted to take part of this history because I have to say that a Cotere Gemma people is against, probably against Matthias en Gemma, but the population also recognized that Matthias en Gemma was who really went against the colonial system, no. And in Guillain-Gemma, when he started with the second dictator, he wanted to find a way to connect with the population, and he tried to use the same techniques in the same places that Matthias en Gemma used, no. So the aim of this contestation of Matthias, Pla Favella Liverta, seems to have been to recognize the history of Matthias, no, in terms of the Cotere Gene, because although the repropation of this cultural status was less the result of a collective and community action that an identity claim made by each first dictator, this Matthias en Gemma, they called it an epipole, it's meaning perfectly.
It was only when the second president of the young grandma tried to demolish this tower, no, the tympatians, the tympatians, the patians, the patians, the people, salenced and oppressor because you have to know that these people never took against the dictator, but these people that discussionally repressed, it's living in relationship crisis, raised their voice to save the tower from the demolition. I think that this is also very interesting how these people that is living in a dictatorship, that nobody is concerned, nothing, nothing, nothing. I start to defend the place that was called along, and later was placed occupied by Matthias en Gemma, that is the was a very, it's a very, a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, dictator in, on the whole Africa. So I think that the defense of the Pla Favella L'Og, in a dictatorial country, may be seen as a subtle way for the population to show their discontent with defending the memory of abuse and terror of the colonial and of Matthias Eris, send a powerful message about the current efficiencies of the abian race, that is, the dictators that we have nowadays.
I hope to reply your question. Ari. And you tell us what the abuse is suffered by refugees and equatorial gynaeans under Spanish rule? Yes, there was no empathy for utter knowledge men of the contest, constant abuse that which Africans were subjected, instead, contained and disintegrated towards the local people among Spaniards with various forms of discrimination and exclusion, expressing racial prejudice and cultural inferiorization.
This was the colonial regime. So the abuse was constantly in Moro Con in Ecuador, Gynaean. Safer Ontario means more police and prosecutors making sure my card doesn't get stolen. It means building new jails to keep criminals behind bars.
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Learn how at ontario.ca slash Safer Ontario paid for by the government of Ontario. You write as follows on page 212. Bata and Al-Hosayma are examples of African cities that grew at the colonial margins and use transgression as a tool to create new narratives about themselves and reposition their cities within national frameworks and an increasingly global world. Combining the local and the global both cities allow anonymous, Moroccan and Equatocal Gynaean voices to be incorporated.
These voices reveal a history of two cities whose citizens are critical of their past and their tangible heritage as there wasn't time when these cities were symbols of oppression and racial or ethnic segregation. The two cases are at once similar and very different. Riffian, socio-political integration in Morocco is problematic as it is for other communities that consider themselves stateless nations within their countries. This book brings narratives about the Riffian past into circulation that refers its dual invisibility.
One of which was the product of colonialism while the other was promoted by the post-colonial state. With the fang, the situation is completely different. Their relative colonial invisibility lasted well into the 20th century as despite promising them, despite comprising the majority group they remained on the margins in Spanish, Guinea, Bata provided community representation that helped subvert this and finally gave the fang a place in a global framework. So while the fang continue to be denied their capital city, the potential shown by the city of Bata has allowed old wounds to be healed with the Equatorial Gynaean minorities, despite the same minorities bearing the scars of their permanent subaltern status within the national framework.
But Al-Hosema and Bata are also examples of African cities created by enforced Spaniards and traces of colonialism remain an ethnic racial, political and labor segregation. Colonial independence marked the moment Al-Hosema and Bata finally became Riffian and Equatorial Gynaean with the Amazig and fang ethnic elements emerging in both as the distinctive features met to position them on a global scale in a global world. Can you say more about this? Well, you really have selected a very good paragraph because it utilizes a big part of what is the conclusion of the work.
I think that two dimensions got emerged from the globalization of Bata and Acosema. The first localization of the colonial contestation process that uses cultural editors to connect the local with the global, as I was trying to explain what was going on with this graffiti in Acosema also with this Black-haired, the latter, the latter, the latter. The second localization of ethnic cultural identification is the dimension of the second dimension of localization and ethnic cultural identification that takes advantage of the local in order to transcend state borders and project itself globally. I think that this is very important because this second dimension is understudied, but I think that needs to be more represented in more works because there are little, well, little with the narrative, no, but we have minorities or ethnic identities that are not the national identity that nobody is in Africa using this way to promote themselves globally.
No, because they have people from their culture living in different countries because they have migrated. So this expression is there. These two dimensions demonstrate this dimension not of this localization uses context as cultural editors, not connecting the local and the global, and this second dimension of the localization uses ethnic cultural identification, not demonstrated, demonstrated, the vitality of local phenomena in a world in which cities are gaining representation at the time when much of Africa seems to have been left behind globalization by globalization. There are researchers that say Africa is nowhere, but Africa is trying to find themselves and using this city, this city, so the place that it is contact in a global world not to be more visible, not to defend themselves, both have responses to the challenges of conveying the stories of the past with the present as they are afraid of a world that emerges from Eurocentric foundations and continue to grow in thanks to African representation.
So I think that this globalization and this to be African in the world are a part of what they call the book, no, and they need to sit themselves and to find a place for themselves in the world. As we bring today's dialogue to a close, can you tell us about where your time and attention have gone since completing this work? Well, thank you. I suffered the opportunity to talk about this.
I'm very happy because in June we'll be published with 11 universities press, my last book that is titled, It's the Italian, African, women's history in European narratives. In the book, I explain who works after a political and career of an Indian woman, pioneers of Europe's African diaspora in 19th century, even that little is known about the African woman who came to Europe from the 80s, 70s onwards, notably with their, to imagine them as a wealthy, elegant leader, as individuals with their finertaists and fluent and several languages. The government dinner represented a multi-seater, multi-local, transnational, transcontinental, and a pro-politant community that lived between African Europe from the late 19th century onwards, and these people who are from the Quadri-Arguinese, so it's evident that I'm still working the together connected, and this book explains how the degree of her mandate, and particularly their women, to extend the values of race and gender in colonial Africa and in Spain, because the book voiced a journey across cultures and continents, on the narrative of African women's empowerment in their home continent and in Catalonia. So this research shows a woman's history that resonates from regional, national, and transcontinental levels, and it's a genuine, European-American legacy to be preserved for future generations, and this work is part of my last project that is Black Spain, that I'm actually developing in my center and in the basic.
So I never stopped working, and I think that this new monography, that is a historical monography, will also, I think that people will also address the work. As we end today, I'd like to express my heartfelt thankfulness to you for how considerate you were throughout the course of today's conversation. I'm so grateful. Thank you very much.
I'm very happy to have this time with you, the opportunity that you give me to express myself, and I want to congratulate the work that you're doing with the book. I think that all my colleagues will search your podcast because it's very nice. Congratulations and thank you for the opportunity. Thank you.
You were just meaning the world to me, and it was my blessing to engage in this dialogue with you today. Okay, thank you, and I hope you will see you another time. Thank you. As we end today, I'm signing off as Harry Barbara Latt, your host on the new Books and History channel of the New Books Network podcast.
Today, I've been honored to engage in a conversation with Yolanda Ischela Cabre. She has a PhD in anthropology. She is a senior researcher in the IMF CSIC, the institution, Mila Efontanal, the Investigación and Humani Dares, and the Consejo Superior de Investigaciónis, Sion Tivicos, the Spanish Council for Scientific Research. We have engaged in a dialogue regarding her recently published book, Spain's African colonial legacies, Morocco and Equatorial Guinea, compared published in Leiden, Netherlands, like Rill 2022.
Thank you. Thank you.