A Matter of Conscience: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War

In 1969 Peter Hagerty, Navy ROTC instructor, inspected a destroyer the way he was supposed to.He followed the rules. The ship was in bad shape. He told his superior that the hairline crack on the barrels of the guns could cause an explosion. He said he would not approve the ship for battle. The captain told Peter, "you're a goddamn agitator” and said he would court-martial him.He found an attorney to defend him as he refused to go to Vietnam. Hagerty, motivated by guilt that his class background spared him from fighting the Navy in court, became involved in GI rights for men who went AWOL.For show notes, glossary, photos, and more, visit amatterofconscience.com

Resistance among military officers takes courage. Most officers have earned their promotion from following orders. To say “No” an officer might be risking their career. In this episode, we showcase the stories of two officers, also pilots, who disobeyed orders during the Vietnam War: Charlie Clements, U.S. Air Force and John Kent, U.S. Navy. We explore how they made the decision to rebel and the consequences of that non-conformity.  For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

This is a bonus episode of A Matter of Conscience: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War, featuring more of our interview with Canadian historian and author John Boyko, who wrote The Devil's Trick: How Canada Fought the Vietnam War. You heard him in Episode 10: Leaving America Behind – Deserters and the War. This interview explores Canada's complex and often contradictory role in the Vietnam War, detailing the country's significant economic involvement in manufacturing and selling weapons to the U.S. military, while simultaneously becoming a refuge for over 40,000 American draft evaders and military deserters. For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

Move over James Bond!  In this companion to Episode 10 about deserters during the Vietnam War, we hear about the wild journey of four sailors who deserted from the USS Intrepid during the Vietnam War. Their act of conscience began in Japan, then took them to the Soviet Union, and ended with asylum in Sweden. Researcher Rogelio Vargas-Rodriguez introduces us to the role of Beheiren, a Japanese organization dedicated to ending the Vietnam War, and we learn why their case has become an infamous part of Vietnam War history.For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

More than half a million soldiers abandoned their posts during the Vietnam War, seeking refuge primarily in Canada and Sweden. In this gripping episode of A Matter of Conscience: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War, we plunge into the emotional and personal sacrifice of desertion. Hear the extraordinary journeys of four men: Mike Wong, who crossed the border into Canada; Gerry Condon, whose path wound from Canada to Sweden and back again; Michael Sutherland (formerly Lindner) and Steve Kinnaman, two men granted asylum in Sweden and who never returned to their homeland. We'll also explore the secret routes to freedom—the 'underground railroad' to Canada, guided by historian John Boyko, and the resilient deserter community in Sweden, as shared by its unofficial historian, Jim Walch, a conscientious objector who made Sweden his permanent home.For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

For Black soldiers, the Vietnam War was not only a struggle to stay alive but a battle against the persistent racism in the U.S. military. In this episode, we examine the resistance efforts by Black soldiers who were literally fighting two wars – one against Vietnam and the other against their own country. Four Black GIs tell their stories of fighting back and how PTSD affected the rest of their lives. Historian Sam Black gives context on how an integrated military and colonialism intersected with the GI experience. We uncover the origin of the DAP, discuss the rise of fraggings, where soldiers deliberately killed their officers, and consider the influence on Black GIs of civil rights leaders Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, and Muhammad Ali. For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

As part of A Matter of Conscience, we bring you bonus episodes featuring the first-person stories of the veterans we interviewed some 35 years ago. We begin with Air Force veteran Alan Klein, who was sent to the brig for going AWOL (Absent Without Leave) in protest of the war.  Alan's story of foot-dragging within the military speaks to some of the more pervasive resistance that took place during the Vietnam War.Note: this episode contains profanity.

Demonstrations, labor organizing within the military, and a Hollywood show for GI resisters. Part two of our look at the GI anti-war movement. You may want to hear episode 5 first, to learn about GI newspapers and coffeehouses. In this episode, we dive into the stories of Susan Schnall, a Navy nurse who came up with an innovative way to get the word out about a big anti-war march. We’ll also hear how Army soldier Andy Stapp took unionizing efforts to the military, and Jane Fonda headlines a show tailor-made for anti-war GIs. For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

On October 14, 1968, at San Francisco’s Presidio Stockade, 27 anti-war GIs staged a bold act of civil disobedience. Protesting brutal prison conditions and the moral wrong of the Vietnam War, they sat down on the stockade lawn, locked arms, and sang “We Shall Overcome.” For this nonviolent protest, the Army charged them with mutiny—a crime punishable by death—and sentenced them to more than a dozen years in prison. In this episode, we hear from members of the Presidio 27, their lawyer, and fellow GI resisters as they recount their defiance and expose the injustice of the war they opposed.For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

Free speech is under attack in the United States today, just as it was during the Vietnam War. As a companion to Episode 5, which looked at GI newspapers and coffeehouses of the Vietnam-era, we are delving into the ways that free speech is being stifled in the era of campus protests over the war in Gaza.  We interviewed former UT Dallas newspaper editor-in-chief Gregorio Olivares Gutierrez about how the school shut down his university paper after it reported on a police sweep of student protesters. Additionally, Professor Sean O’Rourke discusses the free speech rights of journalists and Americans today, as well as the importance of protest. For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

In this episode of A Matter of Conscience, you’ll hear how churches and chains made an anti-war splash in 1968. Nine young men announced their resignation from the military by chaining themselves to church clergy during a 48-hour service to protest the Vietnam War. In their words: "They could not be a part of or support the oppressive and dehumanizing activities of the American military machine."   We'll hear from two of the Nine for Peace participants: Keith Mather and Oliver Hirsch.  You'll also hear about two other collective actions taken around the same time: the Fort Hood 3 and the Fort Hood 43.    For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

If you don’t know much about the U.S. war in Vietnam, we’ve got you covered! This episode delves into Vietnam’s struggle for independence and the political influence of figures like President Lyndon Johnson to decipher exactly how we got into the Vietnam War. Through personal accounts from Vietnamese citizens and U.S. veterans, you’ll learn about how the war was waged. 

What do newspapers and coffeehouses have to do with the Vietnam War? It turns out they were critical tools in the GI anti-war movement. You’ll hear the stories of GIs who got around military restrictions to publish 300 anti-war newspapers, often having to distribute them covertly. The episode also highlights the role of GI coffee houses as safe havens and organizing centers for soldiers. GIs, and their civilian supporters faced intimidation, legal challenges, and violence from military and local authorities. But despite the military’s attempts to suppress them, GIs and their civilian supporters went to great lengths to express their dissent and offer counter-narratives to the official military and government propaganda about the Vietnam War. We’ll also look at the parallels to free speech movements today in the United States.  For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

The Green Berets, the special forces branch of the U.S. Army, figures into the stories of two early and well-known GI resisters:  Dr. Howard Levy and Donald Duncan. Both men made strong public stands against the war, and both worked tirelessly for the GI anti-war movement after they were discharged from the Army.  We’ll hear how Duncan gave up a promising lifelong military career because of the tactics used by the United States in the Vietnam War.  And, Dr. Levy recounts his journey from an unsophisticated medical student to a fierce warrior against the war.  For show notes, photographs, and more, visit our website.

Episode 3 gives listeners a brief overview of the history of the war in Vietnam. If you want to get more detailed information, listen to this extended interview with Chris Appy, a professor of history at the University of Massachusetts, and director of the Daniel Ellsberg Initiative for Peace and Democracy.  Chris gives his thoughts on the history of Vietnam's occupation by foreign powers, the re-education camps run by the communist government after 1975, and the more details on the student and GI anti-war movement.

This episode explores how men of the Vietnam generation were primed for war based on the experiences of their fathers and uncles in World War II, and how that patriotism turned to disillusionment when soldiers were confronted with the realities of Vietnam.Hosts Bill Short and Willa Seidenberg take listeners on a tour through Bill’s red bag of personal war mementos and introduce us to Marine veterans Paul Atwood and Steve Spund.  They were two working-class kids who acted on instinct during the brutality of basic training, and in the absence of any knowledge of the growing GI anti-war movement. Their stories reflect conflicting feelings about their fathers, the physical and psychological trauma faced by military recruits, and the message passed down to the next generation.NOTE:  This episode contains profanity and descriptions of violence.For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

A Matter of Conscience uncovers a story of the Vietnam War the U.S. government and the military would like to bury. Hosts Bill Short and Willa Seidenberg draw from firsthand experience to reveal a hidden chapter of the war—one shaped by resistance from within. In this opening episode, we set the stage for the rise of the GI anti-war movement, spotlighting acts of courage and defiance by soldiers who faced internal conflicts between their duty and their conscience. Historian Chris Appy unpacks the war’s moral and political consequences, while veterans share powerful personal stories of the struggle between duty and belief.For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.

Coming at the end of April 2025!  A Matter of Conscience: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War.  Listen to our trailer!