A Science of Change

Listen in as Akasha Sawubona and I explore a wide range of topics, including leadership, diversity, and the interconnectedness of being human. 

A far ranging conversation with my friend and colleague Przemek Gawroński. Przemek's unique blend of Akido into his OD and leadership/personal development practice (in turn based on the work of John Scherer) makes him a resource worth seeking. 

Join Ilsa and I as we explore the world of OD, including the Caribbean Center for OD Excellence, or CARI-CODE, which she founded. Ilsa has always been a visionary, and her current vision is the application of OD to the recovery of Jamaica from Hurricane Melissa. In the spirit of Kurt Lewin that would mean supporting the people in the hardest hit regions as they come up with their own solutions to the task of recovery and survival. 

My second interview of friend and colleague Monika Stuetzle-Hebel, who has hosted me twice to lead LIOS (Leadership Institute of Seattle) style T-groups in Germany. Listen in as we compare the two methodologies, from the history to the focus and process. 

Kick off 2026 by listening in to this lively conversation between Australian leadeship coach Chris March and I. We covered a lot of territory, from his "Success" model of leadership to authority realtionships, followership, the problem with 360 feedback and anonymous surveys, the Interpersonal Gap, Kurt Lewin, and more. Enjoy. 

I start my fourth year of podcasting with an exploration of leadership with Amos Balongo,  an international speaker and leadership, life & communication coach.  Website: https://amosbalongo.com/ Camp Ohana Foundation: https://campohana.org

Listen in as I chat with Christian Ray Flores, coach, entrepreneur, philanthropist, artist, and author, as he discusses his book and the thinking behind it, Little Book of Big Reasons to Love America: A Love Letter from an Immigrant. For me this was a welcome upbeat conversation about this country that we both love, despite the current challenges we face. 

Listen in as guest host Chris Crosby interviews our 97 year-old father, Robert Crosby, about his many citizen participation projects, just two weeks before dad and I present at the Organization Development Network's 2025 conference, in Spokane, Washington. Our presentation is on the 1984 Riverfront Park project for Spokane, which was my first OD experience. Dad did many such projects, and details his approach and the essential requirements for success in this far-ranging talk. Enjoy! 

Hanna reached out to me and we had a lovely conversation about her approach to leadership and change in organizations. 

Listen in as I am the guest of Dr. Neva Alexander's Nevalliance podcast, or watch at https://www.youtube.com/@Nevalliance. Dr. Alexander posed some interesting questions and we covered a lot of ground in this lively 30 minute chat. 

A conversation with my 89 year old Uncle, Lew Frees, who in partnership with his wife, Ann Frees has created a unique OD approach, one rooted in love and connection. 

Listen in as Paul and I discuss our 26 year long collaboration as he led in many situations, consistantly using OD to foster healthy group and organizational dynamics, and to hone his own leadership. The session ranges from our beginning at Peach Bottom Atomic Power Station, to his series of roles including nuclear plant VP, head of an innovative team started from scratch, and COO of a major utility. 

Listen in as Lee Povey and I get to know each other, while exploring a range of topics which we both apply in similar yet unique ways in our work with leaders, organizations, and groups. 

A powerful chat with Elar Killumets, a bright and creative Estonian OD professional, friend, and colleague. 

Listen in to an AI talk show on my latest book, Leadership and the Frontline Workforce: Lessons from the Targets of Change. This book is yet another labor of love, bringing to life the vision of my dearly departed friend and colleague Cotton Mears, as well as the stories of workers and bosses who were there before, during, and after Lewinian OD interventions. In the spirit of Studs Terkel, the book is built on interviews...the methods are taught while the stories are told. Enjoy!

An exciting conversation with my brother Chris about the rebirth of the Leadership Institute of Seattle LIOS). Enrollment is open for Fall 2025 in this unique T-group based program, offering unparralleled learning and a  masters degree in Leadership, Management, and Organization Development (MSLMOD). 

Listen in once again as my team of AI generated podcasters have an effective and lively discussion of my 2021 book Spirituality and Emotional Intelligence, which explores EQ by combining social science, neuroscience, and multi-cultural spiritual wisdom from throughout the ages. 

Listen in as a team of AI generated podcasters have an effective and lively discussion based on the introduction to my 2021 book Planned Change, which organizes Kurt Lewin's prolific writing into practical application for change in organizations and society. 

Listen in as a team of AI generated podcasters have an effective and lively discussion based on the introduction to my 2023 Diversity without Dogma, which applies Lewinian social science to addressing racism and other social diseases. 

Listen in as Dr. David Jamieson, current Editor-in-Chief of the OD Review, Past President of NTL, past faculty in numerous OD programs, scholar and practitioner, explores his life as well as the past, present, and future of OD. 

Dr. Joseph George Anjilvelil joins me in my home for a conversation that digs into his life journey into behavioral science, why I wrote my Lewin book, my next book topic of autocracy and democracy in the US, a critique of appreciative inquiry, the birth of the T-group, and other topics. Dr. Anjilvelil fullfills his intent for journeying to Delaware by flipping the roles and interviewing me, thus bringing a fresh dynamic to the podcast. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!

Listen in to a friendly chat with Dr. Nancy Zentis, founder of the Institute of OD (IOD) and the Global Institute of OD (GIOD). Follow along as Nancy tells the story of her journey from her beginnings in OD to her present passionate teaching of and providing OD through her institutes. When you are done, as Nancy puts it, "Go do OD!"

Listen in as a friend and former student talks about his experience of growing up trans in the US, and the current scapegoating of the LGBTQ community. I add the frame of Lewinian social science to decry the authoritarian practice of picking on minorities (those with less power) for political gain. We both give thanks that the manufacturing organization he is with is genuinely respectful and inclusive, not as a fad but because it is the right thing to do and the smart thing to do for productivity and morale. 

A far roaming chat with Dr. Monika Stützle-Hebel, of the DGGO, which in english is the German Society for Group Dynamics (of which you can learn more at https://www.dggo.de). Dr. Stützle-Hebel reached out after learning of my Lewin book, Planned Change, and I eagerly traveled to her in Munich in 2021. We have since collaborated on two lively T-group workshops in Germany, mostly populated by German social scientists and T-group leaders, and hope to do so again in the future. Contact me if you would like to be put in touch with Monika or are interested in attending the next European event. 

One of my favorite podcasts to date! I consider Dr. Burnes of the University of Stirling in Scotland as the preeminent Lewinian scholar alive today, and a wonderful source for understanding Lewin's social science and practical theories of change. If you have information for his upcoming book on Lewin he would love to hear from you! His e-mail is [email protected]. Enjoy!

Another conversation with my father, Robert P. Crosby, drawing on his T-group experience which dates to 1953 with his first group leader Walter Holcomb, and followed soon after with trainers such as Lippitt, Bradford, and Benne. We explore the history of T-groups together, using the 1964 T-group Theory and Laboratory Method as a guide to the early methods, structure, and leadership styles eminating from Lewin's inner circle.  

A conversation with Margaret Seidler, author of "Payne-ful" Business: Charleston's Journey to Truth. Ms. Seidler only recently became aware of her own family's deep involvlement in the African slave trade. She has chosen to bring her family story into the light of day, focusing her energy towards helping us move towards a more complete understanding of the past so that we can overcome that which divides us today. 

Listen in to a heartfelt conversation with David Ledesma, the leader who used Cotton Mears at four different locations over a 20 year span. Learn about how and why he did so. This is also part of the View from a target series, which is material for my next book, about the power of engaging the hourly workforce in improving productivity and morale. 

Join us as 88 year old OD sage Dick Schmuck recalls his first hand experiences with Lewin's inner circle, including Ronald Lippitt, Leland Bradford, and Ken Benne, as well as with my dad and with behavioral scientist John Wallen. We also discusses Schmuck's books and his unique approach to action research. Sadly, Dick passed away in 2025. 

Listen in as Pat Roberson, former union VP and steward at the Alcoa Warrick Texarkana rolling mill, tells the story of his life as an hourly worker before and after Gil Crosby and his team conducted Lewinian OD in the East Texas plant. 

Listen in as Mark Horswood, former union stward and electrician at the Alcoa Warrick auluminum smelter tells the story of his life as an hourly worker before and after Gil Crosby and his team conducted Lewinian OD in the Indiana plant. 

Join us as we describe and convey many models of citizen engagement, and related topics. 

OD elder, LIOS origoinal faculty, and Lutheran pastor John Scherer talks about the spiritual nature of his work, and shares his considerable knowledge of religion with host Gilmore Crosby. 

A conversation with my father, Robert P. Crosby, about the roots of his OD and the connections to Lewin, such as Lippitt, Bradford, and Benne. The conversation took unexpected twists and turns, and includes wisdom about change, love, and other matters. 

Listen in as Jerome Maxwell, the first Jamaican Managing Director of the Jamalco bauxite refinery,  recalls the steps he took to lead Jamalco in the right direction, including his 14 year collaboration with Gil Crosby to develop and engage the organization in the quest to raise performance to a higher level.  

Lewinian social science is comprehensive (applying to situations large and small, inside and outside of organizations), but it is also simple. For example, Lewin found that if the people facing a problem, through dialgue with their peers, come up with their own solutions, the odds of implementation success are high. Skillful facilitation of the dialgue and the action planning is important of course, but the basic truth is that if solutions are forced on people they are much less likely to pull them off effectively compared to when they come up with their own approaches. This rule, which gets violated time and again in organizations, and related Lewinian wisdom, is the focus of this podcast. We conclude with an exploration of a topic vital to Lewin's theories and near and dear to his heart and mine, democracy. 

How to describe Charlie and his unique Eastern-Western perspective? The following, from his book, is a description in his own words:  If I had to use just one word to describe myself and my background, it would be eclectic. My life and my work have evolved through studying with many fine teachers from around the world. I am a native New Yorker, and in 1985 I moved to Japan to study Aikido, and Noguchi Sei Tai. I've been living here ever since! My Japanese clients say, "Charlie-san has a foreign face and name, but a Japanese heart." My Western clients tell me I offer an intriguing Eastern sensibility, couched in modern terms. I'm glad to hear people say these things, because I love the combination and cross-pollination of Eastern and Western cultures that my work offers. I am the originator of Seishindo. A human potential discipline that inspires people to live the life their true heart desires. The foundation of Seishindo derives from the theories of NLP, Ericksonian Hypnosis, Self-relations Psychotherapy, Aikido, and Noguchi Sei Tai. In my work I strive to create a context in which people feel empowered to achieve their life's dreams. What's important to know in this regard is, you already possess all the necessary resources, to live the life you have been yearning for!

Join me as we cover the social science of Kurt Lewin and it's application to racism as described in chapter two of my most recent book, Diversity without Dogma. Learn Lewin's theory and methods about change inside and outside or organizaions! Take action! The battle between democracy and authoritarianism is happening now, and race relations in the US have been part of that struggle since the beginning. Real democracy by and for all the people is the only sensible path foreward. 

A fearless conversaiton about education, about race, about what divides us in the US, about democracy versus authoritarianism, about the Middle East, and more! 

95 year old Lewinian OD Master Robert P. Crosby joins us again to discuss non-tradtional OD interventions he designed and facilitated, including citizens involvement in HUD block grant decision making, the Riverfront Park Project for the city of Spokane, and the construction of a new juvinile court building, student involvement at Gonzaga University, citizen dialgue between Christians of all kinds and LGTBQ supporters and individuals (many of whom, of course, were also Christian), and more. Many lessons here for the community organizer or OD practitioner. Want actual advice? I'll gladly put you in touch with my father, who loves to speak of these things and would gladly help you free of charge with new designs for change. If any of us are blessed to reach 95, we can only pray that we are as sharp of mind as the elder Crosby. The photo is of Kurt Lewin and Dad. 

In honor of Black History Month I skipped other chapters in my Diveristy without Dogma book and went directly to the chapter on history, which mostly is focused on the history of racism in the US. Please note that this chapter is only one elelment in a much larger social science framework for how to have dialgue about, learn about, and take action on any kind of prejudice. I highly recommend listening to my earlier podcast on the framework in Diversity without Dogma, to help put this talk into context. 

Family of Origin work is an important part of my colleagues and my leadership development methodology. This two part podcast explains that in more detail and then, using interview questions created by Brenda Kerr Minno, I demonstrate a Family of Origin interview by conducting one with my 95yo father. 

Family of Origin work is an important part of my colleagues and my leadership development methodology. This two part podcast explains that in more detail and then using interview questions created by Brenda Kerr Minno, I demonstrate a Family of Origin interview by conducting one with my 95yo father. 

A far ranging and lively conversation with Greg Crosby, an internationally renowned speaker and social scientist.

A conversation with OD practitioner and author Peter Altschul who provides a rich and unique perspective on DEI, disabilities, emotional intelligence, and life. 

Michael Papanek joins us to talk about his grandfather's theories and life, as well as his own unique approach to business consulting and coaching.  

Gilmore Crosby explores Emotional Intelligence as described in his book, Spirituality and Emotional Intelligence. The Crosby EQ model discussed here uniquely integrates individual and systems thinking, and is a foundational element in the author's leadership and organization development work. 

Gil Crosby interviews Dr. John Scherer about how he became part of the original faculty and a creative force within the Leadership Institute of Spokane/Seattle (LIOS), the world's first T-group based OD graduate program. After his 9 years with LIOS John went on to create his own unique approach to OD and Leadership Development, and continues to do so to this day via a network of colleagues around the world.

Gilmore Crosby talks about the change methods of Kurt Lewin, using his 2022 publication, "A Scientific Method of Change," (OD Review, Vol 54, No.3). 

Gil Crosby interviews Dr. Ron Short about the creation of the Leadership Institute of Seattle (LIOS), a T-group based OD graduate program. Ron has known Gil since Gil's early teens, and describes how LIOS was brought into being in part during a conversation under the plum tree in Gil's childhood backyard. Ron was unique in conceptualizing family systems and other theory so it could be applied to practical matters, and in doing the hard work of organizing the LIOS experiential curriculum so it could meet the standards of host academic bodies such as Whitworth College and of the State of Washington.