Autistic Small Talk

Vince and Vanessa zip through 2 papers on hypercuriosity as a framework for ADHD. The first lays out the theory, and the second is a survey-based study on curiosity and ADHD traits.They then discuss a paper making a call for the establishment of Critical ADHD Studies as a field.Show NotesSpoon TheoryThe original spoon theory essay:https://web-wp.archive.org/web/20251002173043/https://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/Christine Miserandino reading her original piece about spoon theory:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn5IBsm49RkSpoon Theory For Autism And ADHD: The Neurodivergent Spoon Drawerhttps://neurodivergentinsights.com/the-neurodivergent-spoon-drawer-spoon-theory-for-adhders-and-autistsHypercuriosityLe Cunff, AL. Distractibility and Impulsivity in ADHD as an Evolutionary Mismatch of High Trait Curiosity. Evolutionary Psychological Science 10, 282–297 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1007/s40806-024-00400-8https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-024-00400-8The Hypercurious Mindhttps://aeon.co/essays/how-the-hypercuriosity-of-adhd-may-have-helped-humans-thriveLe Cunff, AL., Russell, C. & Dommett, E.J. Hyperactive–impulsive ADHD traits predict higher curiosity in adults: evidence from a cross-sectional study. BMC Psychol (2026). https://doi.org/10.1186/s40359-026-04504-7https://www.researchgate.net/publication/403686915_Hyperactive-impulsive_ADHD_traits_predict_higher_curiosity_in_adults_evidence_from_a_cross-sectional_studyCalls For Critical ADHD StudiesJackson-Perry, D., Bertilsdotter Rosqvist, H., & Brown, A. I. (2025). Moving forward: a call for Critical ADHD Studies. Disability & Society, 40(12), 3519–3524. https://doi.org/10.1080/09687599.2025.2458016https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09687599.2025.2458016Max characters reached.Show notes continued here:https://autisticsmalltalk.com

Vince and Vanessa discourse expediently upon 2 papers about Autistic Flow. The first describes a proposed theory of Autistic Flow and the second is a qualitative study of Autistic people transitioning in and out of flow. We also talk about anarchist callisthenics. Anarchist CallisthenicsAnarchist Callisthenics videohttps://www.tiktok.com/@jonjon.jpeg/video/7597533190965808398The Happy Urbanisthttps://www.thehappyurbanist.city/Autistic FlowHeasman, B., Williams, G., Charura, D., Hamilton, L. G., Milton, D., & Murray, F. (2024). Towards autistic flow theory: A non-pathologising conceptual approach. Journal for the Theory of Social Behaviour, 54(4), 469–497. https://doi.org/10.1111/jtsb.12427https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/share/JDZZFXR6URAUQTXPD34U?target=10.1111/jtsb.12427A podcast of the authors discussing the paper:https://youtu.be/lGrLMPXJAukWain, D., G.Williams, D.Charura, et al. 2026. “Transitioning in and out of Autistic Flow: A Qualitative Study Presenting a Non-Pathologising Approach to Autistic Well-Being and Conceptualising Autistic Ways of Being in Clinical and Therapeutic Settings.” Counselling and Psychotherapy Research26, no. 1: e70073. https://doi.org/10.1002/capr.70073.https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/share/CXWVCJMS7ST8E6MNAXNK?target=10.1002/capr.70073Character limit reached.Show notes continued at:https://autisticsmalltalk.com

Vince and Vanessa concisely review 9 different models of disability and a chapter in "Conversations on Empathy",authored by Damian Milton, Krysia Emily Waldock, and Nathan Keates, and titled: Autism and the ‘double empathy problem’.Odd Pride (Astrid)https://oddpride.com/Shanidar 1https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/878896381/ancient-bones-offer-clues-to-how-long-ago-humans-cared-for-the-vulnerableDisability ModelsLawson, A., & Beckett, A. E. (2021). The social and human rights models of disability: towards a complementarity thesis. The International Journal of Human Rights, 25(2), 348–379. https://doi.org/10.1080/13642987.2020.1783533https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13642987.2020.1783533#d1e177Berghs M, Atkin K, Graham H, et al. Implications for public health research of models and theories of disability: a scoping study and evidence synthesis. Southampton (UK): NIHR Journals Library; 2016 Jul. (Public Health Research, No. 4.8.) doi: 10.3310/phr04080Available from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK378941/10 Principles of Disability Justicehttps://sinsinvalid.org/10-principles-of-disability-justice/Damian MiltonThe Participatory Autism Research Collectivehttps://participatoryautismresearch.wordpress.com/2025/12/18/parc-critical-autism-studies-conference-2026-call-for-submissions/The Double Empathy ProblemMilton, Damian & Waldock, Krysia & Keates, Nathan. (2023). Autism and the ‘double empathy problem’. 10.4324/9781003189978-6.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/366888965_Autism_and_the_'double_empathy_problem'Milton, Damian. (2012). On the ontological status of autism: The 'double empathy problem'. Disability & Society - DISABIL SOC. 27. 1-5. 10.1080/09687599.2012.710008.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254245139_On_the_ontological_status_of_autism_The_'double_empathy_problem'Character limit reachedShow notes continued at:https://autisticsmalltalk.com

Vince and Vanessa efficiently finish their discussion of Nick Walker’s dissertation (Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration). They talk about ParaTheatrical ReSearch, autistic aptitudes, reconnecting with stimming, and autistic wellbeing.Nick Walker’s doctoral dissertationWalker, Nick (2019) Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration. [Doctoral Dissertaion, California Institute of Integral Studies].https://neuroqueer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Nick_Walker_Dissertation.pdfWeird Luck(Nick Walker’s comic with co-creators Andrew M. Reichart, and Mike Bennewitz)https://weirdluck.net/Connected with Jen and ShannonWhat the Heck is Embodiment Anyway with Nick Walkerhttps://youtu.be/MgXQG9lP-Bc?si=cgTCn2a1dn8RUPnuParaTheatrical ReSearchArchivehttps://www.paratheatrical.com/info.htmlExpressive Movement/Dance Therapies(Transformative somatic practices for reconnecting to stimming)Continuumhttps://continuummovement.comAuthentic Movementhttps://www.authenticmovementinstitute.com/authenticmovementSongs of the Gorilla NationSongs of the Gorilla Nation by Dawn Prince-Hugheshttps://www.indiebookstores.ca/book/9781400050581/

Vince and Vanessa dash through part 2 of their discussion of Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration by Nick Walker. This includes stories of Nick Walker's experiences with aikido, how he came to start training, how it changed his embodiment, and how his autistic traits benefitted not only him but his students.Nick Walker’s doctoral dissertationWalker, Nick (2019) Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration. [Doctoral Dissertaion, California Institute of Integral Studies].https://neuroqueer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Nick_Walker_Dissertation.pdfNick Walker’s writingshttps://neuroqueer.com/MurmurationsBeautiful footage by Jan van IJken of starling flight:https://youtu.be/V4f_1_r80RY?si=6fl9VCIUnFiuPIYT

Vince and Vanessa fly through part 1 of excitedly describing Nick Walker’s doctoral dissertation, which is entitled: Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration. As you can imagine, Vanessa is completely delighted.Nick Walker’s doctoral dissertationWalker, Nick (2019) Transformative Somatic Practices and Autistic Potentials: An Autoethnographic Exploration. [Doctoral Dissertaion, California Institute of Integral Studies].https://neuroqueer.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Nick_Walker_Dissertation.pdfABA causing harmCitations from Nick Walker’s dissertation about lifelong post-traumatic stress symptoms:Asasumasu, K. (2013b, November 7). The tyranny of indistinguishability: performance [Web log post]. Retrieved from http://timetolisten.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-tyranny-of-indistinguishability.htmlBascom, J. (2012). Quiet hands. In J. Bascom (Ed.), Loud hands: Autistic people, speaking (pp. 177–182). Washington, DC: Autistic Press.Dawson, M. (2004). The misbehaviour of behaviourists: Ethical challenges to the autism-ABA industry. Retrieved from http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_aba.htmlKupferstein, H. (2018). Evidence of increased PTSD symptoms in autistics exposed to applied behavior analysis. Advances in Autism, (4)1, 19–29.Silberman, S. (2015). NeuroTribes: The legacy of autism and the future of neurodiversity. New York, NY: Avery.Yergeau, M. (2018). Authoring autism: On rhetoric and neurological queerness.Durham, NC: Duke University Press.

Vince and Vanessa have a brisk chat about Dyslexic Strengths and Complimentary Cognition.Professor Chesko:“You Can’t Blame Everything on Your Autism”A Response to a Critique I Never Asked ForBy the excellent Professor Cheskohttps://open.substack.com/pub/thespeechprof/p/you-cant-blame-everything-on-your?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=webDyslexic Strengths and Complementary Cognition:Taylor H and Vestergaard MD (2022) Developmental Dyslexia: Disorder or Specialization in Exploration?. Front. Psychol. 13:889245. doi: 10.3389/fpsyg.2022.889245https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.889245/fullTaylor H, Fernandes B, Wraight S. The Evolution of Complementary Cognition: HumansCooperatively Adapt and Evolve through a System of Collective Cognitive Search. Cambridge Archaeological Journal. 2022;32(1):61-77. doi:10.1017/S0959774321000329https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cambridge-archaeological-journal/article/evolution-of-complementary-cognition-humans-cooperatively-adapt-and-evolve-through-a-system-of-collective-cognitivesearch/F198B30682343E92C7E9C986332D380AErbeli, F.; Rice, M.; Paracchini, S. Insights into Dyslexia Genetics Research from the Last Two Decades. Brain Sci. 2022, 12, 27. https://doi.org/10.3390/brainsci12010027Neanderthal Art:It’s Official: Neanderthals Created Arthttps://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/neanderthal-art-discovery/

Vince and Vanessa cruise through Elliot Wassell's paper Experiences of Autistic Joy. Then they discuss glimmers, and share 2 field recordings containing stories of Autistic Joy.Wassell, E. (2025). Experiences of autistic joy. Disability & Society, 1–26.https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09687599.2025.2498417Autistic Girls Network:https://autisticgirlsnetwork.org/Glimmershttps://autisticrealms.com/glimmers-autistic-joy-and-monotropism/Life writings of Autistic people mentioned in Wassell’s paper:McAnulty, D. 2020. Diary of a Young Naturalist. London: Ebury.Kedar, I. 2012. Ido in Autismland: Climbing out of Autism’s Silent Prison. Sharon Kedar.Tammet, D. 2006. Born on a Blue Day: A Memoir of Asperger’s and an Extraordinary Mind.London: Hodder and Stoughton.Williams, D. 1992. Nobody Nowhere. London, Doubleday.Mór, C. 2007. A Blessing and a Curse: Autism and Me. London: Jessica Kingsley.James, L. 2017. Odd Girl Out: An Autistic Woman in a Neurotypical World. London: Bluebird.Lawson, W. 2000. Life Behind Glass: A Personal Account of Autism Spectrum Disorder. LondonMountain MansionMentioned in Vince’s field recordings:https://mountainmansion.bandcamp.com/

Vince and Vanessa talk fleetingly about contradictory research on autistic neural connectomes and swiftly cover 2 papers on strengths-based approaches to identifying and working with Autistic people.Autistic ConnectomesSummary at Embrace Autism:https://embrace-autism.com/autistic-brain-differences-connectivity/Human Connectome Project:https://www.humanconnectome.org/Nick Walker foreverThe essay in which the greatly admired Nick Walker says:“Ultimately, to describe autism as a disorder represents a value judgment rather than a scientific fact.”https://neuroqueer.com/what-is-autism/Strengths-based Autistic IdentificationMatt Lowry’s Reframing of the DSM Criteria:https://www.mattlowrylpp.com/blog/reframing-dsm-autism-criteriaAutistic Culture Podcast:https://www.autisticculturepodcast.com/Woods SEO, Estes A. Toward a more comprehensive autism assessment: the survey of autistic strengths, skills, and interests. Front Psychiatry. 2023 Oct 6;14:1264516. doi: 10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1264516. PMID: 37867767; PMCID: PMC10587489.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10587489/YAFAI, A.-F., VERRIER, Diarmuid and REIDY, Lisa (2014). Social conformity and autism spectrum disorder : a child-friendly take on a classic study. Autism, 18 (8),1007-1013. [Article]https://shura.shu.ac.uk/7450/3/Verrier_Autism_and_Conformity.pdfUrbanowicz A, Nicolaidis C, den Houting J, Shore SM, Gaudion K, Girdler S, Savarese RJ. An Expert Discussion on Strengths-Based Approaches in Autism. Autism Adulthood. 2019 Jun1;1(2):82-89. doi: 10.1089/aut.2019.29002.aju. Epub 2019 Apr 13. PMID: 36601531; PMCID:PMC8992818.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8992818/Dr. Katie Gaudionhttps://www.rca.ac.uk/more/staff/dr-katie-gaudion/Dr. Ralph James Savaresehttps://www.ralphsavarese.com/Autistic JoyWassell, E. (2025). Experiences of autistic joy. Disability & Society, 1–26.https://doi.org/10.1080/09687599.2025.2498417

Vince and Vanessa zoom through a chat about stimming followed by a speedy discussion of the Farahar & Foster Three Dimensional Autistic Space Framework. There may be a passing mention of the connection between mushrooms and ancient calendar systems..Farahar & Foster three dimensions Autistic space frameworkVideo by Chloe Farahar and Annette Foster explaining their framework::https://vimeo.com/601839613Farahar, C., & Foster, A. (2019, June 4th). Autistic observable and unobservable experiences, and the erroneous use of biological sex as a method to differentiate Autistics: Introducing the Internal and External Autistic Space. Presentation at The Participatory Autism Research Collective Third Critical Autism Studies Conference, LSBU, London.Chloe FaraharBio at Aucademy:https://aucademy.co.uk/chloe-farahar-phd/Annette FosterBio at Aucademy:https://aucademy.co.uk/annette-foster/Neuroqueer HeresiesNick Walker’s wonderful book is available at the Penticton Public Library:https://www.pentictonlibrary.ca/Through various public libraries (as an ebook and and audiobook) via Hoopla:https://www.hoopladigital.com/Via libro.fm (in audio format) which lets you support a local bookstore of your choice:https://libro.fm/And various other places books are sold conveniently listed here:https://neuroqueer.com/books/StimmingVideo from aucademy that includes a guided stim at the end:https://www.youtube.com/live/51fqpWj61V8?si=F5HXYx0OzVjkXlZC

Vince and Vanessa rapidly review 2 papers about autistic identity and connect them to the concept of neuroqueer, then sprint through Vince’s project of inviting people to consider their neurotype.Show notes

The episode opens with a great story from Sarah Willard. After which Vince and Vanessa have a speedy exchange about monotropism and the concept of neuroqueer. Show notes

Vince and Vanessa glance at Rachel Cullen’s Autistic Pragmatic Language Hypothesis, and demonstrate some autistic joy by discussing their love of plants.Show notes

Vince and Vanessa have a quick chat about masking, identity-first language, and institutionalized prejudice and bigotry against Autistic people within research that is not led by us. Things get dark. And then they get even darker. But at the very end you hear us laughing a lot while we semi-chaotically attempt to end the episode.Show notes

In their first episode, Vince and Vanessa briefly talk about the Double Empathy Problem, the Social Model of Disability, Autistic representation and Autistic spaces. They discuss the importance of Autistic researchers, and talk through some examples of what accommodation can look like, while sharing stories of their personal experiences within these topics. Warning: Somewhere in the middle, with hardly any apology, Vanessa does try to explain a joke.