Beyond the Resume

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, we sit down with Daniel Rosen of Klein Hornig, an affordable housing and community development attorney whose work centers on helping clients structure, finance, preserve, and close complex affordable housing transactions.Dan shares how he found his way into affordable housing law during law school, after discovering a career path that brought together social justice, race, cities, place, policy, and mission-driven legal work. He explains why affordable housing law is often “real estate, harder,” with transactions that require deep knowledge of tax credits, HUD approvals, regulatory structures, multiple funding sources, and highly technical financing tools.The conversation explores how the affordable housing landscape has changed over Dan’s career, especially as projects have become more ambitious, more expensive, and more layered. Dan discusses the growing complexity of deals involving historic rehab, distressed housing redevelopment, mixed-income and mixed-use projects, church properties, office-to-residential conversions, and multi-source financing structures.Chris, Lisa, and Dan also discuss career paths into affordable housing law, the value of being purposeful in professional choices, and why relationship-building matters even in deeply technical legal work. Dan reflects on the difference between working in-house and serving multiple clients through private practice, the importance of closers in affordable housing transactions, and the role of mentors in shaping his career and the DNA of Klein Hornig.The episode closes with Dan’s thoughts on the future of affordable housing, rising development costs, political and policy challenges, AI in legal practice, and the balance between mission, technical expertise, and practical execution.CHAPTERS(02:07) Finding Affordable Housing Law by AccidentDan explains how he stumbled into the field during law school and found a practice that connected his interests in social justice, race, cities, and place.(03:30) “Real Estate, Harder”Dan breaks down what makes affordable housing law different from conventional real estate, including tax credits, HUD regulations, financing structures, and deal complexity.(06:40) Why Deals Keep Getting More ComplexThe conversation turns to rising costs, layered financing sources, ambitious projects, and why clients are often forced to assemble six, eight, or ten funding sources to close a gap.(08:26) Building a Career in Affordable Housing LawDan discusses how law students and attorneys can enter the field, whether through affordable housing firms, commercial real estate, tax, government, or mission-driven legal work.(12:03) Relationships Beyond the DeskChris and Lisa explore Dan’s approach to networking, brand-building, ULI involvement, and why showing up became part of helping grow a successful legal practice.(18:20) Costs, Complexity, and the Industry OutlookDan reflects on the future of affordable housing, tax credit improvements, political energy around housing, rising per-unit costs, and serious challenges facing nonprofit clients and residents.(28:12) AI, Timekeeping, and Legal TechDan shares how Klein Hornig is beginning to explore AI, including AI-assisted timekeeping, search tools, and the potential impact of document review and generation on legal practice.YouTube: https://youtu.be/a4DiHVMRsLYSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Paul Weissman, Senior Managing Director and Head of Affordable Housing Production at Lument, for a wide-ranging conversation on affordable housing finance, career development, and the human side of real estate. Paul explains Lument’s work as a multifamily commercial real estate lender with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and FHA lending capabilities, while also tracing the company’s legacy through Red Capital, Lancaster Pollard, Hunt Real Estate Capital, CharterMac, and Centerline.Paul shares how an unconventional path, from studying foreign languages to living in France, the Soviet Union, and Taiwan, eventually led him into law school, business school, tax credit syndication, bond transactions, and affordable housing finance. His story offers practical career advice for students and emerging professionals interested in real estate, LIHTC, tax-exempt bonds, FHA lending, and multifamily housing.The conversation also dives into why affordable housing deals are more like complex, three-dimensional puzzles than straightforward real estate transactions. Paul discusses the evolving challenges of tax credit pricing, taxable debt, recycled bonds, state subsidies, subordinate financing, and the many public and private stakeholders involved in getting a project across the finish line.The episode closes with reflections on AI in lending, the importance of getting out from behind the desk to see the impact of affordable housing firsthand, the value of mentorship, and why Paul looks for interesting, thoughtful people when hiring. It is a grounded and insightful episode for anyone interested in affordable housing, real estate finance, career pivots, and the people behind mission-driven development.CHAPTERS(03:07) From Foreign Languages to Affordable HousingPaul reflects on studying languages, living abroad, teaching English in Taiwan, and eventually finding his way into law, business school, real estate development, and tax credit work.(07:59) Where Lenders Fit in the Deal CyclePaul explains how lenders often enter the affordable housing process when developers are applying for bonds, credits, or other financing, while also serving as early-stage consultants for clients.(11:02) Affordable Housing as a Complex PuzzleThe conversation explores why affordable housing transactions require comfort with uncertainty, constant problem-solving, and the ability to balance competing sources, uses, stakeholders, and requirements.(18:13) Why Scale Is Hard in Affordable HousingPaul and Chris discuss the growing role of large institutions in affordable housing and why approvals, transaction complexity, and smaller deal sizes make the sector difficult to scale quickly.(20:48) Learning LIHTC From ScratchPaul shares that he entered the field without knowing what a low-income housing tax credit or cap rate was, then built his knowledge through conferences, experts, trial and error, and self-directed learning.(26:27) Seeing the Impact in PersonPaul describes the value of visiting affordable housing properties, including watching a Denver project rise from his office window and later seeing the transformation of a major RAD transaction with NYCHA.(29:59) AI, Efficiency, and Better Lending WorkflowsPaul discusses how AI may help lenders summarize reports and improve efficiency, while emphasizing caution around sensitive information, accuracy, and using AI to support rather than make decisions.---affordable housing, Lument, Paul Weissman, Beyond the Resume, LIHTC, tax credit equity, FHA lending, Fannie Mae Freddie Mac, multifamily finance, real estate career advice

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Thalia Lankin, Chief Operating Officer at the NHP Foundation, to unpack a career rooted in purpose, impact, and strategic leadership in affordable housing.Thalia shares her journey from Western Massachusetts to the University of Pennsylvania, and how an early exposure to inequality shaped her commitment to housing accessibility. She dives into her experience working with the Millennial Housing Commission, her 15-year tenure in institutional investment at the Housing Investment Trust, and her transition into the development side of the business.Listeners will gain insight into how affordable housing actually works—from capital markets to development, operations, and resident services—and why wages, supply, and system-level thinking are critical to solving the housing crisis.Thalia also breaks down the real role of a COO, how to scale organizations effectively, and what it takes to lead with both empathy and accountability. She offers candid advice for students and young professionals, emphasizing curiosity, decision-making, and adaptability as the most valuable career skills.The conversation also explores emerging topics like AI in real estate operations, leadership development, hiring philosophy, and the future of property management.If you're interested in real estate, affordable housing, leadership, or mission-driven careers, this episode delivers practical insights and real-world perspective from one of the industry’s most thoughtful operators.CHAPTERS(00:36) Inside the NHP FoundationThalia explains NHP’s mission, scale, and impact across 16 states.(02:39) Choosing Affordable Housing Over Traditional FinanceThe pivotal decision to pursue purpose-driven work.(04:32) What a COO Actually DoesBreaking down operations, strategy, and organizational leadership.(06:50) Early Career and Affordable Housing Crash CourseThe Millennial Housing Commission and formative industry exposure.(12:28) Wages, Unions, and Housing AffordabilityHow income levels shape the affordability equation.(14:45) Transitioning from Capital Markets to DevelopmentKey differences and lessons learned on the development side.(16:19) AI in Real Estate and Property ManagementOpportunities and challenges in adopting new technologies.(19:24) Leadership Style and Managing TeamsInclusive leadership, radical candor, and team development.(22:04) Career Advice for Young ProfessionalsCuriosity, decision-making, and overcoming fear of failure.

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Jeremy Hoffman, COO of Zen, an affordable housing development consulting firm, to unpack a non-linear career journey that spans architecture, global travel, public policy, and large-scale housing development.Jeremy shares how a chance encounter abroad led him into real estate development, and how his experience at the New York City Department of Housing Preservation and Development (HPD) shaped his expertise in policy, finance, and execution. Now back in California, he’s helping scale a consulting firm while leading affordable housing projects across the state.This conversation explores the intersection of mission-driven work, technical skill-building, and career adaptability, offering valuable insight for anyone interested in affordable housing, urban development, or breaking into the industry.Key Topics Covered• Affordable housing development in California vs. New York• Career pivots and non-linear professional paths• Financial modeling and real estate fundamentals• The role of consultants in housing development• Policy, zoning, and public-sector influence• Skills needed to succeed in affordable housingChapters(00:00) – Introduction & Wearing Multiple HatsJeremy shares what it means to be COO of a growing consulting firm while balancing family life and development work.(02:15) – What Zen Does: Affordable Housing Consulting ExplainedAn inside look at how Zen supports developers—from financing strategy to full project management.(05:00) – Growing Up in Oakland & Early Career InfluencesJeremy’s upbringing, architectural roots, and early exposure to the built environment.(07:45) – From Construction to Global TravelA pivot away from traditional paths, including time in New York and traveling through Southeast Asia.(10:00) – The Turning Point: Discovering Real Estate DevelopmentA chance meeting abroad introduces Jeremy to development as a career.(12:30) – Grad School & Falling in Love with Financial ModelingHow Jeremy built technical skills and entered the affordable housing space.(15:00) – NYC HPD: Policy, Power, and Real ImpactWorking inside New York City government and helping shape inclusionary zoning policy.(18:30) – Transition Back to CaliforniaReturning to the Bay Area and adapting to a very different affordable housing landscape.(21:00) – Developer vs. Consultant: Key DifferencesWhy Jeremy made the move into consulting—and what makes it compelling.(24:00) – Inside Affordable Housing DealsBreaking down complexity: partnerships, financing layers, and execution challenges.(27:00) – Career Advice: How to Break Into Affordable HousingWhy there’s no single path—and what skills actually matter.(30:00) – Habits, Mentors & Personal GrowthDaily routines, leadership lessons, and the mentors who shaped Jeremy’s career.

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa is joined by an expert panel moderated by Kristin Niver (Robinson+Cole), featuring leaders from across the rural housing ecosystem:Brian Depew — Center for Rural AffairsTom Collishaw — Self-Help EnterprisesSarah Kackar — NeighborWorks AmericaNadia Villagran — Local Initiatives Support Corporation (LISC)Together, they unpack the realities of rural affordable housing—where limited scale, complex financing, and infrastructure gaps demand creativity, collaboration, and resilience. From deep-dive capital stacks to community-driven innovation, this conversation reveals why rural housing requires an entirely different playbook than urban development.Why rural housing projects are harder to finance—and easier to derailHow USDA programs underpin nearly all rural developmentThe hidden role of developers as “orchestrators” in small communitiesWhy preservation (rehab) is just as critical as new constructionHow rural communities are quietly leading with innovationThe growing risks tied to federal funding uncertaintyCHAPTERS(02:15) – How Rural Housing Differs from Urban MarketsBrian Depew explains the realities of scale: smaller projects, fewer players, and why even a handful of units can shift an entire market.(07:10) – The San Joaquin Valley Case StudyTom Collishaw shares 60+ years of work at Self-Help Enterprises, including mutual self-help housing and the evolution of farmworker housing.(13:40) – Innovation Born from ConstraintNadia Villagran highlights how rural communities leverage collaboration, local knowledge, and resourcefulness to solve complex challenges.(18:55) – Why Rural Is Not MonolithicSarah Kackar breaks down the diversity across rural America and why one-size-fits-all solutions consistently fall short.(24:30) – Preservation vs. New ConstructionA deep dive into aging housing stock, rehab strategies, and why small-dollar fixes can have outsized impact.(29:45) – Inside the Rural Capital StackTom Collishaw walks through a typical deal—layered funding, thin margins, and heavy reliance on USDA programs.(36:20) – The Role (and Limits) of CDFIs & CRA CapitalBrian Depew discusses building flexible capital pools and why CRA-driven bank investment often misses rural communities.(42:10) – Collaborative Lending & Manufactured HousingSarah Kackar explores shared-risk lending models and why modern manufactured housing is an underutilized solution.(47:30) – Predevelopment Funding & Policy UncertaintyNadia Villagran outlines the importance of early-stage capital—and the growing concern over unstable federal funding.(52:15) – Audience Q&A: Investors, Opportunity Zones & InnovationThe panel responds to questions on tax credit investors, Opportunity Zones 2.0, and emerging financing tools.(57:30) – Clean Energy, Private Capital & What’s NextDiscussion on integrating sustainability and how private capital may step in amid public funding uncertainty.

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Lisa Flicker sits down with Shike Goedar, President and Chief Investment Officer of Arden Logistics Parks, to unpack a dynamic career journey through real estate, private equity, and entrepreneurship.From starting in debt capital markets during the early days of the financial crisis to transitioning into the buy side and ultimately building a $1.5B industrial platform from the ground up, Shike shares firsthand insights on navigating market cycles, making strategic career pivots, and creating opportunity in uncertain environments.Listeners will gain valuable perspective on:Breaking into real estate and private equityMoving from debt to equity rolesThe importance of mentorship and networkingWhy smaller firms can offer outsized career growthLeadership development and hiring for gritHow AI is reshaping the future of work in real estateWhether you're a student, early-career professional, or seasoned investor, this episode delivers actionable advice on building a resilient, high-impact career in today’s evolving real estate landscape.CHAPTERS(00:00) Cold Starts & Career BeginningsIntro and Shike’s early interest in real estate during college(02:05) From Atlanta to Wall Street PathsChoosing a smaller firm over large institutions for broader exposure(04:02) Financial Crisis PivotLayoffs, timing, and transitioning to the buy side in 2008(06:25) Breaking Into Private EquityBusiness school, networking, and landing a role at a growing platform(08:46) Scaling Platforms & Finding NichesIndustrial real estate focus and growth at Northstar(10:01) Career Strategy: Experience Over PrestigeWhy smaller teams can accelerate learning and impact(13:40) From Operator to LeaderLeadership evolution, hiring smarter people, and building teams(18:50) AI, Communication & Future SkillsTechnology shifts and the enduring importance of human connection(25:30) Hiring for GritWhat separates top candidates beyond credentials

How do you go from Catholic friar to leading a rapidly growing affordable housing organization? In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Matthew Janeczko, CEO of Sisters of Charity Housing Development Corporation, to unpack one of the most unconventional journeys into affordable housing leadership.Matthew shares how he accidentally entered the industry with no prior experience—and went on to double his organization’s housing portfolio to 1,500 units across New York. From faith-based development to scaling operations, he explains how mission-driven work, problem-solving, and relationship-building have fueled rapid growth.This conversation dives deep into:The critical role of affordable housing in addressing homelessnessHow faith-based organizations are shaping housing developmentWhy there’s no “cookie-cutter” path into the industryThe importance of services, tenant stability, and community-buildingLeadership lessons from the priesthood applied to real estate developmentWhether you’re looking to break into affordable housing, scale a mission-driven organization, or better understand how housing impacts lives, this episode offers practical insights and powerful perspective.CHAPTERS(00:24) Origins of Sisters of Charity Housing(03:54) Scaling to 1,500 Units and Building a System(05:12) From Catholic Priest to Housing CEO(07:17) Learning Affordable Housing During the Pandemic(08:53) Growth Strategy: Faith, Relationships, and Opportunity(10:39) Faith-Based Development Challenges and Opportunities(13:07) No Cookie-Cutter Approach to Housing(16:42) Housing as the Foundation for Stability(18:55) Vision: 2,000 Units by 2030(23:45) Daily Routine and Fatherhood Grounding(25:16) Hiring Philosophy and Building CultureLINKSYouTube: https://youtu.be/V9Q54I9VDCESpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, we sit down with Laura Fanucchi, Director of Programs at HIP Housing, to explore a remarkable 30+ year career in affordable housing and social services in San Mateo County, California.Laura shares how a background in psychology and early work with vulnerable families led her to a lifelong mission: helping individuals and families find stable, affordable housing in one of the most challenging markets in the country. From pioneering home-sharing programs to launching housing readiness initiatives for seniors, Laura offers a front-line perspective on the evolving housing crisis in Silicon Valley.The conversation dives into the growing issue of senior homelessness, the power of trauma-informed care, and how HIP Housing supports over 700 individuals annually through innovative programs like home sharing, self-sufficiency housing, and resource hubs. Laura also reflects on leadership, staff retention in mission-driven organizations, and how compassion and personal resilience shape impactful careers.Whether you're interested in affordable housing, nonprofit leadership, social services, or career growth with purpose, this episode provides valuable insights into making a real difference in your community.CHAPTERS(02:18) What Is HIP Housing? Programs & Impact(06:17) From Psychology to Nonprofit Housing Career(07:21) Inside HIP Housing’s Four Core Programs(10:29) The Growing Housing Crisis & Senior Homelessness(14:13) 30 Years of Change in Housing Access(18:25) Compassion, Upbringing & Career Motivation(21:01) Preventing Burnout: Trauma-Informed Leadership(25:26) Retaining Talent in Mission-Driven WorkforcesLINKSYouTube: https://youtu.be/itCFUDCBCu4Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9--affordable housing, nonprofit leadership, housing crisis California, senior homelessness, social services careers, trauma informed care, HIP Housing, Silicon Valley housing, nonprofit career journey, home sharing programs

How does affordable housing actually get built—and who makes the financing work?In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Richard Roberts, Principal and Chief Business Development Officer at Redstone Equity Partners, for a deep dive into the world of affordable housing finance, real estate development, and public-private partnerships.Roberts shares the story behind his unconventional career path—from growing up in Akron, Ohio and attending Yale Law School to becoming Commissioner of the New York City Department of Housing Preservation and Development at just 31 years old, overseeing a $1.5 billion budget and 1,200 employees while helping produce 30,000 housing units.The conversation also explores Roberts’ role in helping launch the Urban Investment Group at Goldman, a platform focused on investing in urban real estate and minority-led businesses, and how mission-driven capital can shape communities.Today, Roberts works with developers across the country at Redstone Equity Partners, helping structure Low Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC) transactions and connecting affordable housing developers with banks and insurance companies that provide the equity needed to build housing.Along the way, Roberts reflects on the major themes of his career:• The intersection of government policy and private investment• Why relationships drive the affordable housing industry• Lessons from running a major public agency at a young age• How innovative housing finance programs get created• The realities of working in government vs the private sectorIf you work in real estate, affordable housing, urban development, housing policy, or community investment, this episode offers a rare insider perspective on how housing deals get financed and built across the United States.Chapters(01:38) – Meet Richard Roberts(02:48) – What Redstone Equity Partners Does(05:59) – Growing Up in Akron(08:58) – Becoming NYC Housing Commissioner at 31(14:31) – Launching Goldman’s Urban Investment Group(19:16) – The Public–Private Career Theme(27:02) – Government vs Private Sector Work(37:23) – Creating an Innovative Housing Program

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Sarah Garland, Interim Head of Affordable Housing at CBRE, to discuss the evolving world of affordable housing finance, career growth in commercial real estate, and the human impact behind the deals.Sarah shares how CBRE’s Affordable Housing Group operates nationally across debt financing, investment sales, and investment banking—supporting developers who build or refinance properties with income or rent restrictions. She explains how financing tools like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA loans, and bridge lending help make “Capital A Affordable” housing projects possible.The conversation explores Sarah’s unconventional path into the industry—from working with a small homebuilder to the Housing Department of Los Angeles and later spending 13 years at Fannie Mae before joining CBRE. Along the way, she reflects on how she discovered her true strengths as a deal structurer and manager, rather than a business originator.Sarah also shares practical career advice for students and early-career professionals interested in affordable housing and real estate finance. Her key tips include conducting informational interviews, building strong professional networks, and remembering that your first job likely won’t define your entire career.The discussion dives into the biggest challenge facing affordable housing today: rising construction costs and the difficulty of assembling enough financing to make deeply affordable projects feasible. Despite those hurdles, Sarah emphasizes the powerful mission behind the industry—helping working families access housing they can afford.One of the most powerful moments of the episode comes when Sarah recounts witnessing a resident win a housing lottery for an affordable unit in New York. Watching someone realize they could finally live in a home they never thought possible reinforced why affordable housing work matters.From leadership lessons and hiring philosophy to mentorship and industry collaboration, this episode offers an inside look at the people and partnerships that make affordable housing development possible.If you’re interested in affordable housing finance, commercial real estate careers, housing policy, or mission-driven development, this conversation delivers valuable insights from one of the industry’s leading voices.CHAPTERS(02:28) Inside CBRE’s Affordable Housing Platform(04:19) What Affordable Housing Financing Actually Means(07:12) Sarah’s Career Journey into Real Estate(19:24) Career Advice for Students Entering the Industry(21:42) Biggest Challenges in Affordable Housing Finance(24:00) A Powerful Resident Story That Defines the Work(33:42) What Sarah Looks for When HiringLINKSYouTube: https://youtu.be/mNUixd3qBt4Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9--Affordable housing, affordable housing finance, CBRE affordable housing, commercial real estate careers, affordable housing development, housing finance, real estate leadership, affordable housing industry, housing development financing, Beyond the Resume podcast

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Evan Holladay, founder of Holladay Ventures, to explore how affordable housing development can be both mission-driven and scalable.Evan shares how he transitioned from economics student to affordable housing developer after volunteering with Family Scholar House and witnessing firsthand the impact of housing paired with supportive services. He explains how Holladay Ventures has developed over 1,200 affordable housing units in Nashville in just six years—partnering with nonprofits like Samaritan Recovery Community to combine recovery services and deeply affordable housing in one integrated model.For students, aspiring developers, and impact-driven real estate professionals, this episode offers tactical insights into affordable housing finance, nonprofit partnerships, entrepreneurship, and building a career that blends profit with purpose.Chapters(00:51) Why Holladay Ventures ExistsEvan explains launching Holladay Ventures with his wife to build intentionally designed, impact-focused affordable housing in Nashville.(02:13) From Pre-Med to DeveloperPivoting from chemistry to economics, discovering student housing development, and earning his first opportunity by adding value.(04:09) Windows, Volunteer Work & The Affordable Housing SparkHow volunteering at Family Scholar House revealed the power of real estate to create real community impact.(10:40) First Deals, First WinsSubmitting first-ever HOME Fund applications, closing 192 units in Baton Rouge, and cutting his teeth in LIHTC development.(18:15) Podcasting into BiggerPocketsLaunching a mastermind from scratch, leveraging a BiggerPockets appearance, and building a 12-month affordable housing coaching program.(23:08) Samaritan Recovery Community & Shelby HouseRedeveloping a nonprofit campus into 195 affordable units plus recovery facilities—and the life-changing story of Chris Proctor.(27:29) Scaling the Model & Solving the Housing CrisisExpansion into Columbus and the Southeast, nonprofit land partnerships, creative capital stacks, and long-term growth plans.LINKSYouTube: https://youtu.be/iafgMuLTaEkSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Alex Viorst, Executive Director at PGIM Real Estate, to break down the world of affordable housing finance — with a deep focus on preservation, Section 8 assets, and agency lending.Alex shares how PGIM Real Estate operates within Prudential’s debt and equity platform, how Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and FHA financing work in affordable housing, and why preservation deals have become increasingly competitive. He explains the lending process from loan sizing and pre-screening to HUD applications, rate locks, and closing timelines.With 31 years in the industry, Alex reflects on starting as a construction-to-perm lender at LaSalle National Bank, transitioning from international economic development ambitions at Georgetown to community development in Chicago, and building a career in affordable housing loan originations. He discusses how Section 8 assets evolved from misunderstood risk to highly sought-after investments and how agency production goals influence deal strategy throughout the year.CHAPTERS(01:03) What PGIM Real Estate Actually DoesDebt and equity platform under Prudential, agency lending (Fannie, Freddie, FHA), balance sheet lending, and private placement construction-to-perm products.(02:22) How Affordable Housing Loan Originations WorkFinding developers, repeat clients, preservation focus, conferences, pre-screens, formal quotes, HUD timelines, and rate locking strategy.(04:30) “Vegetable Soup”: The Complexity of Affordable HousingTerminology overload, legal intricacies, and navigating preservation-specific rules.(05:02) From Georgetown to ChicagoInternational economic development ambitions, business school setbacks, nonprofit lending work, and transition into community development finance.(12:39) The Evolution of Section 8 PreservationHow Section 8 went from misunderstood risk to aggressively pursued agency product, increasing competition, and changing developer landscape.(14:20) Agency Appetite and Market TimingProduction goals, seasonal strategy shifts, basis point competition, and knowing when to bring deals to Fannie and Freddie.(19:31) Hiring and Leadership PhilosophyFearlessness, Excel proficiency, underwriting experience, self-starters, and the importance of mentorship in building a career.LINKSYouTube: https://youtu.be/hHJgXSwhPxcSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, we sit down with Blanca Ramirez, President and CEO of Comunilife, a New York City–based organization developing supportive and affordable housing alongside essential community-based services. Blanca shares how Comunilife serves thousands of residents through housing, health-focused programming, and prevention initiatives, including Life is Precious, a suicide prevention program created to support Latina teens.Blanca also discusses Comunilife’s medical respite model, which helps individuals transition from hospitals into stable housing, as well as her own unexpected career journey—from early work with homeless seniors, to tax credit syndication at Hudson Housing Capital, and ultimately leading a 300+ employee nonprofit across the Bronx, Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. This conversation explores nonprofit leadership, culturally competent services, Latino community impact, and Blanca’s advice for young professionals pursuing meaningful work in housing and social services.Chapters (00:01:21) What Comunilife Does: Housing + ServicesBlanca introduces supportive housing, teen prevention work, and community programs.(00:02:24) How Blanca Found Housing WorkFrom graduate school uncertainty to serving homeless seniors.(00:04:59) Moving Into Housing Finance and DevelopmentHer transition from direct services to consulting and syndication.(00:10:22) Life is Precious: Latina Teen PreventionHow Comunilife expanded the program across multiple sites.(00:11:49) Medical Respite: Housing After HospitalsComunilife’s model and success placing people into permanent housing.(00:14:36) Becoming CEO After a FounderBlanca shares how she approached leadership and organizational growth.(00:17:45) Leading Through Workforce and Political ChallengesHow staff and residents are impacted by today’s climate.(00:25:46) Career Advice: Say Yes, Learn ExcelBlanca’s guidance for future nonprofit and housing leaders.Links:YouTube: https://youtu.be/q8kqSRjRjJQSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9KEYWORDS:Blanca Ramirez, Comunilife, Supportive Housing, Affordable Housing Development, Latino Community Services, Teen Suicide Prevention, Life is Precious Program, Medical Respite Housing, Nonprofit Leadership, Mission Driven Careers

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Joy Horak-Brown, President and CEO of New Hope Housing in Houston, Texas. Joy shares the remarkable origin story of the organization, founded in 1993 through the social outreach efforts of Christ Church Cathedral. What began as a modest initiative with just 40 studio apartments and $75,000 in the bank has grown into a pioneering affordable housing nonprofit serving thousands of Texans.Joy explains how New Hope Housing became the first organization in Texas dedicated to housing formerly homeless residents, and how it has expanded to more than 2,115 deeply affordable apartment homes for individuals, families, and seniors. The conversation explores the challenges of financing affordable housing, the importance of the Low Income Housing Tax Credit program, and the ongoing national need for housing at 30% of area median income and below.Joy also reflects on leadership, professional development, mentorship, and her upcoming transition after 30 years at the helm. From award-winning developments recognized by the Urban Land Institute to building communities with supportive services like preschools, clinics, and green spaces, this episode highlights what it takes to create housing with dignity, quality, and long-term impact.Chapters(00:02:28) From 40 Units to a Statewide Pioneer — How New Hope built the first Texas housing dedicated to formerly homeless citizens.(00:05:57) New Hope Today: 2,115 Apartment Homes — Joy shares the scale of growth and the populations served, from individuals to seniors.(00:08:17) Building a Supportive Housing Campus — A “small town” model with preschool, health clinics, services, and even a prairie park.(00:10:31) Houston’s Changing View on Affordable Housing — How proven quality and long-term success reduced resistance over time.(00:20:17) Financing and Pushback in Early Years — Joy recalls fundraising struggles and skepticism from the City of Houston.(00:25:35) Leadership Transition After 30 Years — Joy discusses succession planning and becoming CEO Emerita.(00:30:34) Joy’s Hot Seat: Favorite Book & Mentorship — Her recommendation of The Nonprofit Board Answer Book and lessons from mentors.LINKSYouTube: https://youtu.be/30IMSwUaBp8Spotify: https://lnkd.in/eyrNGt53Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9----affordable housing, New Hope Housing, Joy Horak-Brown, Houston housing development, supportive housing, homelessness solutions, Low Income Housing Tax Credit, nonprofit leadership, Urban Land Institute ULI, deeply affordable housing

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Seth Bynum, Senior Advisor for Housing Policy and Development in the New York City Deputy Mayor’s Office, for a deep dive into how housing policy actually gets made—and implemented—on the ground.Seth explains his role as a liaison between the Mayor’s Office, HPD, HDC, and NYCHA, and why his job ultimately comes down to making it easier to finance and build housing in one of the most complex development environments in the world. The conversation explores New York City’s landmark City of Yes zoning reforms, the shift toward embracing all housing as good housing, and why political risk, environmental review, and time delays remain the biggest obstacles to development.Seth also shares his personal journey—from discovering urban studies by accident at Vassar, to cold-messaging housing leaders on LinkedIn, to working as an affordable housing developer, and finally returning to public service. Along the way, he reflects on why affordable housing finance is so difficult to break into, why Excel and underwriting matter, and what it really means to be a “houser.”The episode closes with Seth’s reading list, podcast recommendations, and candid advice for young professionals who want to build careers in housing policy, development, and public service.Chapters(00:03:21) What Seth Does in the Mayor’s OfficeAn overview of Seth’s role coordinating housing finance agencies and translating policy into action.(00:06:00) Why Building in NYC Is So HardPolitical risk, environmental review, oversubscribed bond pipelines, and systemic delays.(00:08:13) City of Yes and the Housing Paradigm ShiftHow zoning reform changed the conversation from “only affordable” to “more housing.”(00:11:51) Finding Housing Through Urban StudiesHow Seth’s upbringing in Essex County shaped his understanding of place and equity.(00:15:09) Falling in Love With Housing PolicyFrom Senate hearings on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to a career-defining realization.(00:21:05) Breaking Into Affordable HousingLinkedIn outreach, HPD internships, and learning LIHTC from the inside.(00:27:23) From Developer to Deputy Mayor’s OfficeWhy firsthand development experience matters in public-sector housing leadership.(00:35:24) Day-to-Day Reality: Closing SeasonWhat December looks like inside NYC housing finance and why relationships matter.LINKS:YouTube: https://youtu.be/TmNgZn5UYRsSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9KEYWORDS:affordable housing, New York City housing, housing policy, City of Yes, housing development, LIHTC, NYCHA, urban studies, housing finance

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Audrey Symes, Head of Research at Human Capital Analytics, to explore how data, research, and macroeconomic trends are reshaping hiring and talent strategy across real estate, investment banking, and asset management.Audrey shares her unconventional career journey—from economics at Stanford to real estate research at Deutsche Bank, Prologis, JLL, and Partners Group—and explains how those experiences shaped her approach to predictive analytics, workforce planning, and thought leadership. The conversation dives deep into how executive search firms can move beyond intuition by leveraging proprietary data, market mapping, compensation studies, and AI-powered research tools.The episode also explores the evolving role of AI in research, the skills required to succeed in a data-driven world, and why reading, writing, and critical thinking are more important than ever. Audrey closes with practical career advice for early professionals, book recommendations that shaped her thinking, and daily habits that help her stay grounded while building a modern research platform.This episode is a must-listen for professionals interested in talent strategy, data-driven decision-making, and the future of work.Chapters(03:10) What Human Capital Analytics Does—and Why It Matters(06:05) Audrey’s Career Journey: Economics, Real Estate & Research(10:40) Learning from Market Cycles and Industry Evolution(14:35) Turning Search Data into Strategic Insight(18:55) Predictive Analytics, Surveys & Workforce Trends(22:45) AI in Research: Tools, Limits, and Opportunities(26:40) Skills That Matter: Reading, Writing, and the “So What”(30:55) Books, Mentors & Habits That Shape Great Researchers(34:40) Advice for Early-Career Professionals & Closing ThoughtsLINKSYouTube: https://youtu.be/Srno63IEHSMSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Andrea Osgood, Chief of Real Estate Development and Executive Vice President at Eden Housing, one of California’s most influential affordable housing developers. With more than 57 years of impact, Eden Housing has developed over 160 projects and 13,000 affordable homes serving families, seniors, and special needs communities across the state.Andrea shares her personal journey from growing up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, to studying liberal arts at Pomona College, earning a Master’s in Urban Planning from UCLA, and building a 17-year career at Eden Housing. The conversation dives deep into how affordable housing deals actually get done in California, including the role of Low-Income Housing Tax Credits, public-private partnerships, inclusionary zoning, and local and state funding sources.The episode also explores modular construction, cost containment strategies, advocacy at the local and state level, and how emerging tools like AI and knowledge management systems are shaping the future of housing development. Andrea offers candid advice for students and early-career professionals interested in affordable housing, emphasizing risk management, communication skills, and financial literacy.This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in affordable housing development, urban planning, nonprofit leadership, real estate careers, and housing policy, especially in high-cost markets like California.CHAPTERS(00:38) Meet Andrea Osgood & Eden Housing’s MissionAndrea introduces Eden Housing, its IHOP beginnings, and its statewide impact after nearly six decades of development.(02:47) How Affordable Housing Deals Get FinancedA clear breakdown of tax credits, permanent loans, and layered public funding that make projects possible in California.(05:02) A 17-Year Career at One OrganizationWhy Andrea stayed at Eden Housing, and how nonprofit real estate blends mission with business rigor.(09:03) From Liberal Arts to Urban PlanningAndrea explains how urban planning became the perfect bridge between creativity, policy, and the built environment.(14:46) How Eden Housing Finds New DealsRFPs, inclusionary zoning partnerships, and land acquisition strategies explained.(18:43) Modular Construction & Cost InnovationLessons learned from modular projects in Vallejo and Hayward—and why standardization is still a challenge.(24:22) Housing Advocacy & Local LeadershipAndrea discusses San Mateo County advocacy, Measure K, and her return to Tulsa through housing impact work.(28:02) Advice for Students Entering Housing DevelopmentThe skills, mindset, and experience young professionals need to succeed in affordable housing.

Faith-based organizations have played a central role in affordable housing and community development for generations — and today, that role is expanding at scale. In this episode, we bring you a powerful panel discussion on Faith-Based Development Initiatives in Affordable Housing, featuring leaders from nonprofit development, finance, faith institutions, and community partnerships.Hosted by Chris Papa (Founding Partner, Jackson Lucas) and Kristin Niver (Affordable Housing Attorney, Robinson + Cole), this conversation explores why churches, mosques, synagogues, and faith-affiliated nonprofits are uniquely positioned to help address America’s housing crisis. Panelists discuss the historic roots of faith-based development, the growing professionalization of these efforts, and how underutilized land owned by houses of worship could unlock hundreds of thousands of new affordable homes nationwide.You’ll hear firsthand insights from:Russell Lang, President & CEO of Catholic Homes NYJacqueline West-Spencer, SVP of Real Estate at Wesley HousingDavid Bowers, VP & National Faith-Based Development Advisor at Enterprise Community PartnersRonald Quarshie, representing First Baptist Church Gresham Road (Atlanta)The panel dives deep into trust-building with congregations, structuring equitable development partnerships, financing and subsidy challenges, resident services, and the realities of long-term stewardship. This episode is essential listening for developers, lenders, policymakers, faith leaders, and anyone interested in affordable housing solutions rooted in mission, equity, and community impact.Chapters(02:40) Introductions: hosts Chris Papa & Kristin Niver(05:10) Panelist introductions and organizational backgrounds(10:15) The historical role of faith-based organizations in affordable housing(15:40) Why faith-based development is scaling and becoming professionalized(21:30) Housing supply shortages, underutilized church land & “radical common sense”(28:10) Mission-driven development models from Catholic Homes & Wesley Housing(34:45) Building trust with congregations and surrounding communities(40:20) Strengths and complexities of faith-based development partnerships(46:15) Financing, subsidies, and long-term stewardship considerations(52:05) Audience Q&A: barriers to entry, capacity building, and policy support(59:10) Closing reflections and next steps for faith-based housing initiativesYouTube: https://youtu.be/eX_TBVk1kUQSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this episode, Chris Papa sits down with Matt Wassel of Saxum Real Estate to unpack how the firm evolved from value-add redevelopment in New Jersey to becoming one of the most active cold storage and food-focused real estate developers in the country. Matt explains Saxum’s three core verticals—cold storage and food processing, dry industrial, and residential built-to-rent—and how each aligns with long-term demographic and supply-chain trends.The conversation dives deep into why cold storage has emerged as a critical asset class, driven by changing consumer food habits, grocery store evolution, and the need to modernize an aging food supply chain. Matt also shares his personal career journey, from brokerage at CBRE to becoming one of the earliest hires at Saxum, and reflects on mentorship, firm culture, and the value of learning multiple asset classes at a growing platform.Chris and Matt also discuss career advice for young professionals entering real estate, the importance of soft skills, building a company culture that prioritizes long-term alignment, and how Saxum is beginning to thoughtfully integrate AI into its business development and site selection processes.(01:04) Saxum’s three core real estate verticals(02:45) From New Jersey redevelopment to national growth(06:53) Why cold storage is booming right now(09:26) Leasing strategy and tenant-driven development(13:31) Matt’s career path: brokerage to development(24:25) Skills, mentorship, and advice for real estate careers(29:14) The future of Saxum and the role of AIYouTube: https://youtu.be/MN8PCumztcgSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

2025 is coming to a close! Join Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker as they reflect on the past year both at Jackson Lucas and on the podcast. From capital raising to the challenges faced in the affordable housing sector the dynamic duo explore the importance of mentorship, personal growth, and staying grounded in a fast-paced world. We take a look back at their favorite episodes and interviews of the year and end 2025 with the hottest Hot Seat to date!Chapters(02:35) Trends in Capital Raising(05:03) Affordable Housing Challenges(07:39) Podcast Highlights and Guest Reflections(12:02) The Importance of Mentorship and Community Engagement(14:45) Navigating Change: Compensation and Workplace Dynamics(17:26) Personal Growth and Mindfulness Practices(20:05) The Role of AI in Business Efficiency(22:49) Hiring Trends and Candidate Expectations(25:25) Reflections on Mentorship and Company GrowthYouTube: https://youtu.be/73wDGGMxgD4Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this Gratitude Throwback episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa revisits a powerful conversation with Timothy Henkel, SVP and Partner at Pennrose, one of the nation’s leading affordable housing developers. Recorded during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, the episode explores Tim’s winding career path—from civil engineering to affordable housing development—and the deep sense of purpose that has defined his more than 20 years at Pennrose.Tim offers an inside look at how affordable housing development works, including how Low-Income Housing Tax Credits are awarded, why competition for them is so intense, and how developers must align public policy, community needs, and financial feasibility. He shares stories of complex projects, including a transformative redevelopment in Meriden, Connecticut, and discusses the role of collaboration with municipalities, nonprofits, and residents.Throughout the conversation, gratitude emerges as a central theme: gratitude for partners, mentors, communities, and the opportunity to do work that genuinely improves people’s lives. Tim reflects on why affordable housing is foundational to health, stability, and opportunity—and why so many people in the field see it as their life’s work. The episode closes with personal reflections, career advice, and a reminder that empathy and perspective matter just as much as technical skill.Chapters(01:06) Meet Tim Henkel and an overview of Pennrose’s history and growth(03:58) Affordable housing vs. market-rate development and how tax credits shape projects(08:47) Competing for Low-Income Housing Tax Credits and navigating public policy(11:04) Community resistance, consensus-building, and where affordable housing gets built(13:26) A standout project: Meriden, Connecticut and the power of collaboration(20:36) Why affordable housing is life’s work and its impact on residents’ health and stability(32:39) Tim’s career journey, gratitude for partnership, and advice for future developersYouTube: https://youtu.be/_3KoZIHZQvwSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this Gratitude Throwback episode of Beyond the Resume, host Lisa Flicker sits down with Carl Shannon, who spent 26 impactful years at Tishman Speyer before shifting his focus to teaching, civic engagement, and giving back to the San Francisco community. Carl reflects on the unexpected breaks that shaped his career, the mentors who guided him, and the philosophy that kept him grounded through economic cycles and major development projects.They discuss serendipity, authenticity, long-term commitment, and why gratitude is a crucial professional skill — especially for young people entering real estate, development, or any career where relationships matter. Carl also shares insights on today’s market cycles, how to build a meaningful career, and why stepping into a life of service is his next chapter.Chapters(02:15) The Serendipity of Career Breaks – A chance meeting at Salomon Brothers leads to a pivotal opportunity and launches Carl into real estate.(06:36) Early Lessons & Advice for Emerging Professionals – Be flexible, choose people over prestige, and be ready to “dig ditches” on day one.(09:55) Why Loyalty Matters More Than Job-Hopping – Carl explains how long-term commitment led to deeper skills, trust, and opportunities.(13:08) Cycles, Setbacks & Career Pivots – What he learned navigating downturns, including the early ’90s when development halted.(15:19) The Big Reveal: Retirement & Reinvention – Carl opens up about leaving Tishman Speyer, his love for San Francisco, and redefining purpose.(21:19) The Future of Office & Housing Development – A grounded look at where the market is headed and why housing demand will persist.(24:51) Legacy Projects, Mentorship & Building Teams – From Mission Rock to assembling diverse teams, Carl reflects on the work that mattered most.YouTube: https://youtu.be/qMSizzGgsWMSpotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this special Gratitude Series episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Daniel Carr, Co-Founder of Alpaca Real Estate, to explore career pivots, entrepreneurial risk-taking, and the future of innovative real estate investing.Dan walks us through his journey from Brooklyn Tech to JPMorgan, Ares, and eventually launching Alpaca Real Estate—a platform built on trust, long-term relationships, and the power of integrating real estate with climate tech and innovation.You'll hear how Dan identified a once-in-a-generation investment opportunity, the importance of choosing the right business partner, lessons from mentors, and how passion and grit shape great teams. Dan also shares insights on EV charging infrastructure, industrial distribution, built-to-rent trends, and creating positive community impact through thoughtful development.Perfect for anyone interested in real estate private equity, career growth, entrepreneurship, or understanding how technology is reshaping the built environment.Chapters(01:55) From JPMorgan & Ares to Entrepreneurship(07:40) Spotting a Once-in-a-Generation Market Opportunity(09:22) Launching Alpaca Real Estate & Choosing the Right Partner(10:50) Innovation in Real Estate: EV Charging & Climate Tech(16:36) Power Constraints, Land Strategy & Industrial Distribution(21:25) Brooklyn Roots, Career Evolution & Early Influences(24:59) Advice for Students, Internships & Skill Development(27:14) A Day in the Life: Family, Work & Building a Firm(31:04) Community Impact Project in Brooklyn & Long-Term VisionYouTube: https://youtu.be/iwk8j5LUib4Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotifyApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

In this episode, we visit our conversation with Michelle Militello, the Vice President, Equity Asset Management at The Community Development Trust. Michelle shares her extensive background in affordable housing, detailing her transition from banking to community development. She emphasizes the importance of asset management in preserving affordable housing and discusses the skills necessary for success in the industry. Michelle also highlights her commitment to mentoring women in affordable housing and reflects on the leadership lessons she has learned throughout her career.Chapters(02:03) Career Path: From Banking to Affordable Housing(12:34) Role at Community Development Trust (CDT) and Its Mission(18:58) The Importance of Asset Management in Affordable Housing(22:45) Skills for Success in Affordable Housing(31:23) Mentorship and Leadership Lessons(36:02) Conclusion and Future CollaborationsMichelle Militello brings a rich, personal history to her work in affordable housing, a field she entered after transitioning from a career in banking to community development. Shaped early on by her family’s connection to real estate, and strengthened through formal education—including an MBA—Michelle has developed a deep understanding of the sector, especially the vital role asset management plays in preserving long-term affordability. At the Community Development Trust (CDT), she is driven by a clear mission to protect and preserve affordable housing across the country. She speaks often about the importance of mentorship, particularly for women navigating the industry, and models the power of genuine, values-driven leadership. Above all, Michelle’s passion for collaboration fuels her work, reinforcing her belief that the most meaningful progress in affordable housing comes from working together.

YouTube: https://youtu.be/up3jgFm5Xe0 • Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rIn this episode, Jamie Smarr, CEO of the New York City Housing Partnership, joins Chris Papa to explore how affordable housing can revitalize communities and empower residents. Jamie shares lessons from his 30-year career in government and nonprofit leadership, emphasizing the power of project management, writing, and mentorship. From the Bronx’s burning buildings to today’s homeownership initiatives, this conversation dives into the evolution of housing policy, the importance of innovation, and what keeps Jamie motivated to make housing more human.Chapters(02:50) The Origins and Mission of the Housing Partnership(05:29) Affordable Housing in Modern New York(07:57) Jamie Smarr’s Path from Government to Nonprofit Leadership(10:51) Skills That Build Careers (and Homes)(13:41) How Government Drives Housing Policy(16:19) Future Housing Challenges and Opportunities(19:05) Personal Insights and Career Advice(21:57) Memorable Projects and Impactful DevelopmentsYouTube: https://youtu.be/up3jgFm5Xe0Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/jamie-smarr

YouTube: https://youtu.be/86yt8WvdBr8 • Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rIn this inspiring episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Emily Kurtz, Chief Housing & Development Officer at RiseBoro Community Partnership, to explore her 20-year journey in affordable housing and community development. Emily shares how a sociology degree and a curiosity for cities led her to urban planning, and eventually to leading one of New York’s most impactful housing organizations.They discuss the evolution of RiseBoro, the realities of nonprofit housing development, and the personal balance required to thrive in mission-driven work. Emily also reflects on mentorship, leadership, and how organizations like Women in Housing and Finance have shaped her career.If you’re passionate about affordable housing, career growth in the nonprofit sector, or finding purpose in your work, this episode delivers real-world lessons and personal insight.Chapters(02:23) RiseBoro’s Mission and Community Roots(05:13) From Tenant Advocacy to Housing Development(07:48) Emily’s Path from Sociology to Urban Planning(10:15) Career Lessons: From IBM to Affordable Housing(13:20) Finding Fulfillment Through Curiosity and Adaptability(19:56) Breaking into Nonprofit Real Estate(21:21) The Challenges Facing Affordable Housing in NYC(23:38) The Human Cost of Federal Cuts and SNAP Benefits(26:45) Leadership, Mentorship, and Building Strong Teams(30:01) Parenting, Perspective, and Career Growth(31:45) Book & Podcast Recommendations(32:09) Work-Life Balance and Daily Rituals(33:21) What Emily Looks for When Hiring(34:58) Final Reflections: Mission, Community, and ResilienceYouTube: https://youtu.be/86yt8WvdBr8Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/emily-kurtz

YouTube: https://youtu.be/fUiwpBCzMrw • Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rIn this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Sarah Berman, Founder and President of The Berman Group, one of the leading public relations firms in the real estate and construction industries.Sarah shares how her early studies in urban planning led her into the fast-paced world of communications, ultimately inspiring her to launch her own firm nearly 20 years ago. She opens up about what it takes to build a PR powerhouse—from crafting compelling client stories and navigating industry challenges to cultivating a company culture rooted in hard work, empathy, and excellence.This conversation is packed with insights on entrepreneurship, brand building, client trust, and leadership, offering valuable lessons for anyone looking to make an impact in real estate or communications.Chapters(02:10) From Urban Planning to Public Relations(04:35) Building a PR Powerhouse from the Ground Up(07:00) What It Takes to Succeed in PR(09:45) Earning Trust and Managing Tough Clients(12:20) Finding a Niche: PR for Construction & Real Estate(15:00) Growth Through Reputation and Referrals(18:00) Balancing Family, Leadership, and Entrepreneurship(19:00) Building Culture and Empowering a Team(22:00) Optimism and Innovation in Real Estate(25:40) Most Memorable Projects and Partnerships(29:10) Mentorship, Hiring, and the Next Generation of PR(33:00) Advice for Future EntrepreneursYouTube: https://youtu.be/fUiwpBCzMrwSpotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/sarah-berman

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa talks with Jim Mather, President and CEO of Century Housing.Jim’s story is anything but ordinary — from editing a dirt bike magazine to leading one of the state’s top affordable housing lenders, his career path proves that purpose and curiosity can fuel lifelong impact.Together, Chris and Jim dive into the origins of Century Housing, the pivotal role of CDFIs and capital markets in community development, and what makes a truly mission-driven leader. Jim also shares how coffee, cooking, and calm focus shape his daily routine — and his leadership style.If you’re passionate about affordable housing, nonprofit leadership, and social impact, this conversation goes beyond titles and résumés to reveal the real story behind the work.Chapters(02:45) The Century Freeway Lawsuit That Built a LegacyJim explains the unique origin story of Century Housing and how a major legal settlement led to lasting community development.(07:58) From Dirt Bikes to DevelopmentHow Jim’s early career as a magazine editor and construction worker sparked a lifelong passion for urban planning and housing.(14:35) Inside the World of CDFIsA breakdown of what community development financial institutions do — and how they fund affordable housing across California.(20:18) Leadership Lessons from the TopJim shares what it’s like to lead an organization with three business arms — and how he balances impact with innovation.(24:50) Hiring for Heart and MissionWhat Jim looks for in candidates: curiosity, adaptability, intelligence, and a genuine drive to make a difference.(28:35) Books, Coffee, and CalmJim talks about his daily rituals, from pour-over coffee to cooking, and how they keep him grounded as a leader.(32:10) Looking Ahead: The Future of Affordable HousingReflections on policy, capital, and the people who make housing happen every day.LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/pt4tPDA6QhYSpotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/jim-mather

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/71orqzeqIoo • 👂 Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rIn this episode of Beyond the Resume podcast, we chat with Sharif Mitchell, a seasoned real estate entrepreneur and the co-founder and CEO of Northern Liberties. Sharif shares his inspiring journey from being a Morehouse College scholarship recipient to a thriving real estate mogul. He emphasizes the role of mentorship, the importance of risk management, and his mission to create workforce housing and foster community impact. Sharif discusses the power of daily structure, understanding customers, and building a strong network. He also provides valuable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs, stressing the significance of long-term vision and calculated steps toward success.Chapters(04:15) Defining Moments and Risks in Entrepreneurship(09:36) Building a Purpose-Driven Real Estate Business(14:14) Daily Habits and Structure for Success(18:29) Overcoming Setbacks and Learning from Failures(22:57) The Importance of Mentorship and Community(26:23) Art as a Reflection of Success(29:58) Advice for Aspiring Real Estate ProfessionalsLinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/71orqzeqIooSpotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/sharif-mitchell

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/vw26kp7vA38 • 👂 Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rIn this episode of Beyond the Resume, we bring you another edition of our webinar series. Join Chris Papa and Kristin Niver as they lead an urgent discussion on the future of affordable housing in Washington, D.C. The expert panelists unpack the economic, political, and social factors shaping the city’s housing landscape.Panelists Mitch Crispell (True Ground Housing Partners), Ed Delany (Capital One), Kimberly Driggins (Washington Housing Conservancy), Chris Marshall (The NRP Group), and Kate Owens (Jair Lynch RE Partners) examine the ripple effects of rent delinquency, eviction backlogs, and the Tenant Opportunity to Purchase Act (TOPA). Together, they explore how policymakers and developers can balance tenant protections with financial sustainability—while keeping the city’s housing stock intact.This is a must-listen for developers, lenders, policymakers, and advocates navigating post-pandemic housing challenges in the nation’s capital.Chapters(04:35) The Fallout from the 2025 Rental ActAn overview of how the Rental Act emerged as a response to economic vacancy, rent delinquency, and strained landlord-tenant relations in D.C.(10:12) The Billion-Dollar Problem: Rent DelinquenciesKimberly Driggins and Kate Owens discuss over $1 billion in lost rent since the pandemic, how emergency-era tenant protections persisted too long, and their destabilizing effects on affordable housing providers.(18:40) The Ripple Effect on Building Maintenance & OperationsPanelists explain how sustained delinquencies have made it difficult to maintain buildings, pay mortgages, and keep affordable units habitable—creating a vicious cycle of disrepair and nonpayment.(26:58) Financing Fallout: The Lender’s PerspectiveCapital One’s Ed Delany reveals how rising vacancies and thin margins are forcing lenders to step back from D.C. investments, chilling multifamily development across the city.(36:25) Eviction Backlogs & the ERAP ProgramA deep dive into D.C.’s eviction crisis—why court delays stretch up to 24 months, how federal judicial vacancies compound the issue, and whether new protective order requirements under the Rental Act can help.(46:02) Lessons from Virginia’s ApproachMitch Crispell contrasts D.C.’s dysfunction with Virginia’s more efficient systems, including resident services, consistent rental assistance, and functioning courts—keeping evictions below 2%.(52:10) Investor Confidence & Regional ShiftsKate Owens and Ed Delany describe a migration of investor capital from D.C. to Maryland and Virginia as developers seek more predictable outcomes and faster lease-ups.(58:30) Understanding TOPA: Tenant Rights vs. Development RealitiesPanelists unpack the Tenant Opportunity to Purchase Act, exploring its origins, intentions, and unintended consequences for preservation and new construction.(1:10:22) Policy Wins & What’s NextKate Owens and Kimberly Driggins reflect on the coalition that made the Rental Act possible and the ongoing need to refine eviction timelines, clarify tenant association rules, and modernize the courts.(1:20:40) Road to Recovery: A Path ForwardAudience Q&A explores how to fix D.C.’s eviction bottlenecks, fill judicial vacancies, and restore investor trust in the market. Panelists close with ideas for keeping housing both affordable and financially viable.LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/vw26kp7vA38Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/webinar-washingtondc

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/-0v5kuRE6ZU • 👂 Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rIn this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Matt Sullivan, Chief Operating Officer at The Michaels Organization, one of the nation’s largest privately held owners and operators of affordable housing. Matt shares his personal journey from studying politics at Princeton to leading a company with more than 80,000 units across 39 states, all while staying true to Michaels’ vision of creating communities that lift lives.Along the way, Matt discusses the future of real estate, the challenges of building affordable housing, and how leadership grounded in purpose can change lives.Chapters:(01:00) Inside The Michaels OrganizationMatt shares the company’s history, its four asset classes (affordable, military, student, and multifamily housing), and how Michaels continues to grow responsibly with a $4 billion pipeline.(03:10) From Princeton to Real EstateMatt reflects on his path from politics to real estate, how a liberal arts education shaped his problem-solving skills, and why he believes in intellectual curiosity.(07:30) Career Lessons & Leadership PhilosophyMatt explains the role of a COO, the importance of strategy and guardrails, and why putting people in positions where they can succeed is his most important leadership lesson.(11:00) Technology & the Future of HousingHow Michaels is using AI, clean energy solutions, and insurance innovations to improve operations and resilience across its 80,000-unit portfolio.(14:45) Scholarships & Community ImpactMatt highlights the Michaels Educational Foundation, which has awarded over $19 million in scholarships since 1991, helping residents—including many first-generation students—pursue higher education and trade schools.(17:00) Transforming Camden, NJStories of revitalization, homelessness initiatives, and partnerships with local health providers that are reshaping Camden into a city of opportunity.(21:15) Favorite Book & Big ProjectsMatt shares how The Real Estate Game influenced his career and discusses a groundbreaking Army barracks privatization project at Fort Irwin, California.(25:00) Recruiting & What Makes a Great EmployeeWhat Matt looks for when hiring, why curiosity matters more than credentials, and the role of brain teasers in his interviews.(27:40) Mentors & Final ReflectionsMatt honors his father, mentors at Michaels, and the importance of surrounding yourself with people who support your growth.LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/-0v5kuRE6ZUSpotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/matt-sullivan

In this episode, we sit down with Brian J. Fishback, Director at Red Stone Equity Partners, to explore how alternative investments are shaping the future of affordable housing. Brian breaks down Red Stone’s $12 billion track record in real estate investment management, the company’s growing focus on preservation housing, and why affordable housing remains one of the biggest challenges in today’s market.He also shares his personal journey — from a collegiate soccer career and public accounting to leading investment strategies at Red Stone — offering unique insights into career development, teamwork, and the value of strong mentorship. Along the way, Brian reflects on the role of opportunity zones, the impact of rising housing costs, and how private capital can serve the public good.Whether you’re interested in real estate careers, affordable housing policy, or the evolving landscape of alternative investments, this conversation delivers actionable takeaways and inspiration.Chapters:(01:33) – Red Stone Equity Partners Overview(04:12) – Affordable Housing & Preservation Strategies(06:59) – Career Path & Skills for Success(09:38) – Accountants in Real Estate Careers(12:33) – Transitioning from Public Accounting to Red Stone(15:17) – Opportunity Zones & Investment Potential(17:56) – Teamwork and Mentorship in Professional Growth(20:48) – Growth & Future of Red Stone(23:44) – Personal Insights & Recommendations(26:16) – Memorable Deals & Entrepreneurial Spirit(29:12) – Final Thoughts & Closing RemarksLinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/BnlA3rM5RgYSpotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/brian-fishback

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/jweAvO99hZE • 👂 Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rHow does a history major from New Jersey end up transforming housing for farm workers in California’s San Joaquin Valley? In this episode, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Tom Collishaw, President & CEO of Self-Help Enterprises, a nonprofit that has pioneered affordable housing solutions since 1965.Tom shares his 43-year journey from a VISTA volunteer digging fence posts to leading one of the nation’s most respected community development organizations. He explains the mutual self-help housing model where families build homes together, the role of water infrastructure in creating livable communities, and the challenges posed by political shifts and immigration fears. Along the way, Tom highlights the importance of mentorship, trust, and reputation in nonprofit leadership — and why he still believes in the resilience of communities to overcome today’s housing crisis.Chapters(02:15) The Mutual Self-Help Housing Model Explained(06:50) From New Jersey to California: Tom’s VISTA Journey(10:40) Learning Affordable Housing on the Job(14:20) Weathering Political Shifts in Housing Policy(18:35) Community Trauma, Immigration, and Housing Access(22:45) Water, Infrastructure, and Rural Development Challenges(27:30) The Lofts at Fort Visalia Project(33:40) Mission-Driven Leadership and Mentorship Lessons(38:45) Reputation, Resilience, and Looking AheadLinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/jweAvO99hZESpotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/tom-collishaw

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/SJdBFyAKZeM • 👂 Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rIn this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Richard Ross, CEO of Quinn Residences, to explore the rise of purpose-built single-family rental communities and what it takes to scale a real estate company from the ground up. Richard shares his journey from accounting to real estate leadership, how Quinn integrates sustainability and technology into its homes, and why culture and language—like calling residents “residents,” not tenants matters for long-term success.Richard also opens up about leadership lessons, his yoga practice, and even the origin of Quinn’s name — which traces back to Gladiator and Roman history. From handling industry challenges like trespassing scams to shaping the future of housing demand, this episode is packed with insights for anyone interested in real estate, leadership, and building purpose-driven companies.Chapters(03:18) From the Great Recession to today: why build-to-rent has exploded(05:42) Who rents these homes? Millennials, families, and empty nesters(07:31) Sustainability in action: solar, flooring, leak detection, and smart tech(10:38) Building efficient operations: Quinn’s hub-and-spoke model(12:16) Company culture: why they say “residents” instead of “tenants”(13:44) Tackling trespassing and scams with technology and legislation(17:07) Richard’s path from accounting to real estate leadership(22:44) What a CEO really does: people, strategy, and letting go of control(31:20) Why Quinn is named after a Roman general in GladiatorLinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/SJdBFyAKZeMSpotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/richard-ross

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/VlYaLxptAlw • 👂 Spotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rOn this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker welcome Peter DiCorpo, co-founder of Brook Farm Group, for a candid conversation about his journey from auditor at Arthur Andersen to building a multifamily development company during one of the most challenging real estate markets in decades.Peter shares how deep friendships, trust, and complementary skillsets fueled the launch of Brook Farm Group during COVID, and how the firm has already delivered projects in Georgia and Florida despite market headwinds. He reflects on the lessons from working at global institutions like AIG and CBRE, the freedom and speed of entrepreneurship, and why capital raising requires persistence, honesty, and long-term relationships.Listeners will hear Peter’s framework for career growth, his philosophy on hiring for character, and his take on how AI will reshape the industry. He also shares a memorable story about the “deal that got away” — and why sometimes the best investment is the one you don’t make.Packed with practical insights, timeless advice, and personal stories (including his father’s influence as an Italian immigrant who modeled grit and work ethic), this episode is a masterclass in resilience, leadership, and building a career with integrity.Chapters (02:12) From Math Major to Arthur Andersen(05:38) Business School & Breaking into Real Estate(09:11) Launching Brook Farm Group During COVID(13:18) First Projects in Georgia & Florida(16:48) Institutional vs. Entrepreneurial Lessons(20:22) Career Advice: Learn, Focus, Build(26:09) The Challenge of Capital Raising(33:37) AI’s Impact on Real Estate(39:52) Memorable Deals & Lessons Learned(43:23) Hiring for Character & Cultural Fit(45:56) Mentors, Mistakes & A Father’s Work EthicLinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/VlYaLxptAlwSpotify: https://bit.ly/4oUQ62rApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/peter-dicorpo

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/r0kcqCVD4Qs • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this Summer Series episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Brian Murray, Co-Founder and Principal of Shift Capital, to explore how impact real estate is reshaping Philadelphia’s neighborhoods.Brian shares his journey as a community-focused developer, and how Shift Capital is tackling challenges like affordable housing, equitable development, and community displacement.This conversation dives into the realities of building healthy, inclusive neighborhoods, the economics of mission-driven development, and the importance of aligning capital with purpose. Whether you’re interested in urban revitalization, impact investing, or the future of housing in Philadelphia, this episode delivers insights you won’t want to miss.Chapters:(01:34) What is Shift Capital?(06:14) Core challenges in real estate development(09:53) Knocking on doors & community engagement(15:52) From accounting to impact real estate(19:52) Rethinking economics in underserved neighborhoods(23:27) Why Shift Capital is vertically integrated(25:37) Expansion beyond Philadelphia?(26:34) The Hot Seat: Brian’s rapid-fire insightsBrian Murray is the Co-Founder of Shift Capital, a nationally recognized impact urban real estate group investing in underserved communities. With a background spanning accounting, tech start-ups, the Peace Corps, and an MBA from Yale, Brian brings a unique perspective on using real estate as a tool for social impact. He is also co-founder of the Arete Youth Foundation and an advocate for equitable development and opportunity creation.YouTube: https://youtu.be/r0kcqCVD4QsSpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/summer-murray

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/RIhtHU0FrRA • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this Summer Series episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Kent Colton, President of the Colton Housing Group and one of the most respected voices in U.S. housing policy. With over 30 years of leadership experience at organizations like the National Association of Home Builders, Freddie Mac, and the Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies, Kent brings unmatched insight into today’s housing challenges.Kent and Chris discuss:• The Ivory Prize for Housing Affordability and how it’s fueling housing innovation• Breakthroughs in factory-built housing and modular construction• The role of zoning reform and regulatory barriers in today’s housing shortage• Innovative financing tools like Rhino and rent-to-own models that are reshaping homeownership• Lessons from the “good old days” of post-WWII housing to today’s affordability crisis• What policymakers, communities, and innovators can do to close the housing gapFrom history to innovation, Kent offers both a big-picture perspective and practical examples of what’s working on the ground to make housing more affordable.If you care about housing policy, affordability, and innovation, this episode is a must-listen.Timestamps(02:10) The Ivory Prize for Housing Affordability(05:13) Breaking down regulatory barriers(07:06) Factory-built housing and modular design(11:30) Making housing work for renters(13:02) Rent-to-own with Home Partners of America(15:52) Housing shortages and market trends(21:08) Real divisions and racial homeownership gaps(24:00) The “good old days” after WWII(29:57) The government’s role in housing affordability(31:55) What you can do in your own community(35:22) The Hot SeatYouTube: https://youtu.be/RIhtHU0FrRASpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/summer-colton

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/4ruADHqvsUg • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this episode of Beyond the Resume, the Summer Series, we bring back the conversation with Jeff Brenner, President & CEO of Impact Community Capital and explore his 30-year journey in affordable housing and impact investing.Jeff shares how a “two-year plan” at a nonprofit turned into a lifelong mission—combining finance expertise with a passion for social impact. You’ll hear insights on:• Building a $2B investment portfolio benefiting low-income communities• Financing affordable housing in 42 states and over 42,000 units• Measuring social impact beyond numbers• Why diversity in leadership drives better decision-making• Opening the door for new investors in the ESG & socially responsible investing space• Career advice for breaking into impact real estate and community development financeChapters(01:20) What is Impact Community Capital?(03:00) The “secret sauce” in affordable housing(06:03) Driving positive change in communities(09:28) Investments backed by real estate(11:25) How Impact has evolved(20:50) Measuring social impact(24:26) Building a diverse team & broad perspectives(27:28) The Hot Seat with Jeff Brenner---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/4ruADHqvsUgSpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/summer-brenner

In this Summer Series throwback of Beyond the Resume, we revisit a powerful conversation with Marie Murphy, Principal and CEO of MJD Capital Partners, a full-service development and management firm based in San Francisco.Marie opens up about her untraditional path into real estate—starting in pharmaceutical sales, pivoting into residential brokerage, and eventually founding her own investment firm. She now oversees a 50+ person team and manages a portfolio focused on value-add multifamily housing in key West Coast markets.If you're exploring how to scale in real estate, break into institutional deals, or lead with purpose in a male-dominated field, this episode is essential listening.Chapters:[0:03:47] From Pharma Sales to Real EstateMarie shares how a background in sales prepared her for a successful leap into residential real estate.[0:09:34] Learning by Doing (and Failing)After being turned away from brokerage firms, Marie found opportunity in a family office and used it to build her investment acumen.[0:11:41] Starting Her Own Firm from ScratchWith no outside backing, Marie bootstrapped her first deals, learned every role in the business, and slowly scaled MJD Capital Partners.[0:14:12] Investment Strategy: Value-Add MultifamilyMarie explains her focus on workforce housing in markets like Sacramento and Reno—and why timing and local insight are critical.[0:18:29] Breaking into New MarketsStrategic hiring, partnerships, and on-the-ground credibility helped Marie gain traction in tight-knit markets like Reno.[0:22:02] Balancing Motherhood and LeadershipMarie reflects on the real sacrifices of being a single mom and CEO—and how she wants her daughters to see her journey.---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/Oa825s-ucxQSpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/marie-murphy-summer

Beyond the Resume Podcast with Andrew Germansky (Building Housing that Heals)In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Andrew Germansky, Senior Vice President of Real Estate at Westhab, a leading nonprofit affordable housing developer and shelter operator in New York. Andrew discusses his journey from history major to housing leader, the innovations Westhab is bringing to affordable and supportive housing, and why ending homelessness requires bold thinking, public-private partnerships, and a reimagined approach to shelter development.From shelter design innovations to why affordable housing is national infrastructure, this conversation dives deep into what it takes to develop housing that heals and stabilizes communities.Chapters(00:00) Meet Andrew Germansky + Westhab’s MissionAndrew reflects on joining his first podcast and introduces Westhab’s work across affordable housing, shelters, and services in NYC, Westchester, and Rockland.(05:29) Building Better Shelters: Zoning, Pushback & EquityAndrew explains NYC’s shelter models, the "fair share" placement philosophy, and how Westhab works to integrate shelters into underserved neighborhoods with dignity and purpose.(11:14) Who Experiences Homelessness — and How We HelpThe discussion breaks myths about homelessness, highlighting Westhab’s case management approach, family-focused shelters, and the holistic services that help residents transition into stability.(14:35) From History Major to Housing DeveloperAndrew shares his path from studying history to affordable housing, his early roles at Omni New York, and the career pivot that led him to lead real estate development at Westhab.(18:49) Nonprofit vs. For-Profit Development: Collaboration & Trade-offsA thoughtful exploration of the relationship between private capital and mission-driven development — and why both are essential to solving the housing crisis.(27:40) Designing Without Red Tape: Parking, Politics & PossibilityIf zoning and budgets weren’t barriers, Andrew says we could build far more housing — especially by eliminating parking mandates that waste space and increase costs.(32:36) Projects, Podcasts & People Who InspireAndrew highlights Dayspring Commons as his most meaningful project, shares real estate podcast recs (like BiggerPockets), and names the mentors who shaped his leadership style.🎧 Call to Action:If you care about affordable housing, ending homelessness, or purpose-driven careers in real estate, don’t miss this episode. Subscribe for more deep dives with the people building a better future—one community at a time.---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/aAVJHYxkjN4Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/andrew-germansky

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/xiSqXKXpKtA • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this episode of Beyond the Resume with Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker, we speak with David Kramer, President of Hudson Companies, about his unconventional entry into real estate, his leadership approach, and the values that have guided his work across three decades of urban development in New York City.David shares how his early experiences in public affairs, a strong generalist mindset, and a commitment to civic engagement shaped his journey toward becoming one of the city’s most respected developers. He offers an unvarnished view of the development process — from managing political complexities and public-private partnerships to prioritizing affordable housing and sustainability. David also reflects on his recent four-month sabbatical and what it revealed about trust, systems, and the resilience of his team.This conversation offers real insight into the real estate industry — both the challenges and the deeply rewarding moments — and delivers practical takeaways for anyone working in development, urban planning, or leadership.👉 Listen now to learn how thoughtful leadership, strategic patience, and personal balance can shape both cities and careers.ChaptersEntering Real Estate by Accident [00:01:05] David reflects on how a public affairs fellowship unexpectedly introduced him to the world of real estate.The Power of Being a Generalist [00:03:55] How broad interests and soft skills prepared David for the interdisciplinary nature of real estate development.Hudson Companies: Mission-Driven Development [00:08:47] A look at Hudson’s structure, commitment to New York City, and strategic focus on affordability and civic impact.The Reality of a Developer’s Day [00:10:55] David shares his daily routine and why real estate requires both high-level vision and on-the-ground decision-making.Navigating Politics and Public Resistance [00:14:56] Insights on community opposition, political shifts, and the challenges of gaining approvals in NYC.Development Inside vs. Outside New York [00:18:44] A comparison of development hurdles and opportunities in NYC and surrounding regions.Would He Do It Again? [00:21:02] David shares why, despite the obstacles, he would choose this path all over again — and encourages others to consider it.“Don’t Postpone Joy”: Celebrating Milestones [00:23:13] A unique cultural practice at Hudson that helps maintain momentum during long project timelines.The Four-Month Sabbatical [00:25:06] David talks about unplugging, international trekking, and the surprising benefits of stepping away from work.Hiring, Mentorship, and Leadership Values [00:38:01] Why civic knowledge, curiosity, and flexibility matter more than just what’s on paper.--LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/xiSqXKXpKtASpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/david-kramer

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/PkVVUsrA_Rs • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Lisa Flicker and Chris Papa sit down with Sydne Garchik, Founder and President of MRK Partners, for an honest, fast-paced, and often hilarious conversation about building a national affordable housing company while raising a family and disrupting industry norms.Sydne shares how she transitioned from her first job as an admin at Standard Communities to launching MRK Partners with a preservation-first strategy, a belief in people, and a commitment to financing the complex deals no one else wants to touch. From partnering with faith-based groups to launching a nonprofit with her husband, Sydne shows how MRK is not only building quality housing — but building community, connection, and measurable outcomes that matter.Chapters(01:38) – Launching MRK: Why Culture Comes FirstSydne explains why being a mom and a woman shaped her approach to founding a mission-driven firm.(04:30) – Admin to Entrepreneur: A Nonlinear LeapThe early days of her career, her time with Standard, and the leap into starting something bold.(07:47) – Why She Prioritizes Impact Over ProfitSydne talks about the role of empathy, her instincts, and the deep-rooted desire to help others.(10:05) – How Her First Deal Started with FamilyThe creative and personal story behind her very first affordable housing project.(12:34) – Doing Hard Things: Conversions, Construction & ComplexityOffice-to-housing conversions, faith-based land deals, and the joy of solving messy problems.(14:16) – What Policy Could Actually Make a DifferenceSydne’s take on tax exemptions, bond reform, and where housing policy really needs to go.(16:27) – Hiring with Heart, Leading with MissionWhy MRK only hires people aligned with its vision — and what she looks for in every interview.(19:27) – Resident Services, Real ResultsHow MRK and its nonprofit Bloom support financial literacy, connection, and holistic wellness.(25:52) – Scholarships, Support, and Sydne’s Favorite Calls to MakeFrom seniors to students, Sydne shares what it’s like to call residents and say, “You got it.”Top 5 Quotes from the Episode:“I don’t wake up thinking about profitability — I wake up thinking about impact.”– Sydne Garchik“We just push forward. Because getting to the result is more important than being right.”“We’re really good at complicated financing — that’s what sets us apart.”“If you’re not aligned with our mission, you shouldn’t be at MRK.”“Affordable housing is for nurses, teachers, baristas. It’s for everyone in your community.”---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/PkVVUsrA_RsSpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/sydne-garchik

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/V5eLHRtk-Fw • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Ty Barnes, Head of Investments at Comunidad Partners, for a wide-ranging conversation on leadership, career pivots, and how mission-driven investing is reshaping the future of real estate.Ty shares his unconventional journey — from political science major to Wall Street analyst to leading community-focused investments across the country. Along the way, he reflects on lessons learned running his family’s business in his 20s, the importance of understanding operations before underwriting, and how personal responsibility sharpened his business instincts.With refreshing candor, Ty breaks down the hard and soft skills that have guided his growth: humility, hustle, people management, and modeling — both in Excel and in life. Whether you’re early in your career or rethinking your next move, this episode offers sharp takeaways and grounded wisdom for anyone in real estate or impact work.⏱️ Chapters & Timestamps(00:00) – What is Comunidad Partners?Ty breaks down the company’s mission and how social impact is built into every deal.(01:45) – The Market Right Now: Where Deals Are HappeningInsights on Carolina growth, rate locks, and why underwriting discipline still matters.(03:58) – From Political Science to Real Estate VisionaryTy shares how a liberal arts degree and Wall Street job turned into a calling.(06:22) – Running the Family Business in His 20sThe responsibility, the grind — and the education no MBA could match.(09:50) – Why Operations Make You a Stronger InvestorA masterclass on bridging asset management and acquisitions to de-risk deals.(12:34) – Excel Skills and the Value of Learning the Hard WayWhy modeling is a language — and why everyone should take the next course.(14:57) – Mentoring the Next Generation of LeadersTy reflects on what makes a great team member and how he supports their growth.(17:29) – Real Talk: Giving Back with IntentionalityFrom college students to junior team members, why helping others is part of the job.(20:31) – Favorite Podcast, Favorite Deal, Favorite LessonsTy opens up about media, memories, and the deal that almost went up in smoke.(23:00) – Hiring Advice & Lessons from His FatherTy on interview green flags, mentorship, and the life-changing example set by his dad.💬 Top 5 Quotes from the Episode:“The best way to be great at acquisitions is to understand operations.”– Ty Barnes“I ran a company in my 20s where people’s lives depended on me. That taught me more than any MBA.”“Do your homework before the interview. Don’t just want a job — want this job.”“You can overcomplicate modeling. You should still be able to underwrite a deal with paper and a calculator.”“My father was the coolest person I ever met. He taught me everything I know about leadership.”---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/V5eLHRtk-FwSpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/ty-barnes

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/uqwoJ0Rdq7U • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Janea Jackson, CEO of HomeRise, for a candid and deeply insightful conversation about leadership, legacy, and the urgent work of supportive housing in San Francisco.With roots in sociology and urban planning, Janea shares how her early experiences—from working in public schools to redeveloping military bases in Japan—shaped her bold, people-first approach to community development. She breaks down the realities of housing formerly unhoused residents, the growing crisis among elders, and how her team is building operational resilience in uncertain times.If you’ve ever wondered what it takes to lead a mission-driven organization in a moment of political backlash, economic pressure, and social fragmentation — this conversation is your blueprint.Chapters(01:03) – Inside HomeRise: More Than HousingJanea introduces the scale and services of one of SF’s largest permanent supportive housing nonprofits.(03:55) – A Teacher’s Perspective on Systemic BarriersFrom Pasadena classrooms to geographic segregation — and the awakening that changed everything.(06:40) – Housing the Unseen: Elders on the EdgeWhy seniors are the fastest-growing unhoused group — and how HomeRise is stepping in.(09:44) – From L.A. to Penn to Oahu: A Nonlinear PathJanea reflects on the winding journey that prepared her to lead with clarity and conviction.(13:00) – Policy, Resistance, and the Fight for PSHNavigating the political attacks on supportive housing — and what resilience looks like.(15:25) – Training for ICE Raids and Mental Health CrisesHow HomeRise is proactively preparing staff and residents for social and legal threats.(19:00) – Changing NIMBYism One Relationship at a TimeWhy community connection is the antidote to judgment — and how storytelling can shift narratives.(22:35) – The Treasure Island Vision: Design, Dignity, and HopeFrom SRO renovations to biophilic towers — a reimagined future for supportive housing in SF.(26:45) – Hiring, Mentors, and Building a Mission-Driven BoardWhat Janea looks for in people — and how her leadership reshaped HomeRise’s future.“We’re building community. Full stop. That takes all kinds of people, from all kinds of paths.”– Janea Jackson“Our systems are failing elders. We’re seeing seniors come straight from homes to cars to the street.”“You can’t run a mission without a margin. I treat this nonprofit like the business it is.”“If you do this work without therapy, you’re crazy. You need space to carry this weight.”“We want people to see our residents as people. That’s not branding — that’s humanity.”---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/uqwoJ0Rdq7USpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/janea-jacksonaffordable housing, Janea Jackson, HomeRise, permanent supportive housing, San Francisco homelessness, nonprofit leadership, urban planning, housing for seniors, mission-driven leadership, real estate social impact

Beyond the Resume Podcast with Sheri Thompson (Stumbling into Real Estate Executive)👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/v5gg2VJx_9A • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this inspiring episode, we sit down with Sheri Thompson, Executive Vice President and Head of Affordable Housing at Walker & Dunlop, to talk about navigating the complex world of affordable housing finance, taking risks in your career, and the power of mentorship and sponsorship.From managing equity funding challenges to reflecting on leadership lessons learned through decades in the commercial real estate industry, Sheri shares real talk and actionable advice for anyone looking to grow in the multifamily housing or real estate finance sector.⏱️ Chapters(0:00) – Welcome + ULI Denver RecapChris opens the episode with guest Sheri Thompson and they reflect on their recent time at ULI in Denver.(1:06) – What is Walker & Dunlop?Sheri explains the scope of services at Walker & Dunlop, including their roles in debt, equity, capital advisory, and LIHTC syndication.(3:43) – Affordable Housing Investment StrategyAn in-depth look at how W&D is innovating around affordable housing with joint ventures, bridge products, and regulatory workaround strategies.(6:47) – Market Trends: Institutional Capital in Affordable HousingSheri discusses how institutional investors are increasingly moving into the affordable housing space, and the education gap that still exists.(10:28) – Career Journey: From Analyst to EVPA personal look at how Sheri stumbled into affordable housing—from early jobs in leasing to underwriting and eventually executive leadership.(16:32) – Key Skills for Real Estate CareersSheri outlines essential skills for breaking into and succeeding in real estate today, including credit knowledge, people management, and operations.(20:54) – Training & Internships at Walker & DunlopAn inside look at how W&D trains new hires, supports interns, and nurtures talent through lunch-and-learns, mentorship, and hands-on learning.(24:02) – Hot Seat: Favorite Podcasts & BooksSheri shares her favorite listens like How I Built This and Acquired, and recommends a surprising read: Lonesome Dove.(25:46) – Most Memorable Deal EverSheri tells the story of a complex, multi-year deal in Washington D.C. that involved splitting ownership and resolving HUD and Fannie Mae hurdles.(27:06) – What Sheri Looks for in New HiresA passionate breakdown of why hunger and intentionality matter more than pedigree in affordable housing hiring.(29:01) – Mentorship vs. SponsorshipSheri shares how a key sponsor, Jim Klingbeil, changed the course of her career—and why sponsorship, not just mentorship, is essential.✅ Subscribe for more real estate leadership stories, insights into affordable housing development, and expert career guidance.📩 Have questions or want to get into the industry? Drop a comment below—we’d love to hear from you.---LinksYouTube: Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/sheri-thompson🔑 Keywords: Affordable housing, Walker & Dunlop, real estate careers, multifamily finance, LIHTC, mentorship vs sponsorship, women in leadership, commercial real estate jobs, Sheri Thompson, housing equity

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/cw1JGKM9blE • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this episode, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Jeffrey Jaeger, co-founder of Standard Communities, to trace his journey from a philosophy major at Berkeley to building one of the most innovative affordable housing platforms in the U.S.Jaeger discusses the importance of urgency, detail, and kindness in real estate, the influence of his upbringing, and how failing upward shaped his values. He also shares how Standard Communities scaled to over 30,000 units, how private capital can be mobilized for public good, and why mentorship and grit matter more than credentials.This candid, wide-ranging conversation covers workforce housing, LIHTC strategy, student outreach, philanthropic leadership, and the deep emotional roots behind his work.Chapters(00:00) – The Pitch That Sparked a MovementHow a casual conversation turned into the launch of Standard Communities — now 30,000 units strong.(02:18) – The Philosophy Degree That Built an EmpireWhy Jeffrey’s liberal arts education shaped his business instincts more than an MBA ever could.(04:55) – Breaking In Without a Business DegreeJeffrey shares how he hustled his way into real estate — Excel book in hand, unpaid but undeterred.(07:36) – Why “Act with Kindness” Is a Business StrategyThe origin of Standard’s core values — and why culture matters more than credentials.(09:10) – Fire vs. Favor: What Gets You HiredWhat Jeffrey looks for in interviews, and why hunger still beats pedigree.(11:25) – The Three Pillars of Scaling Affordable HousingStandard’s strategic model — from LIHTC to workforce to essential housing investments.(14:52) – How Private Equity Is Fueling Local JobsA bold initiative connects housing with employment — and fills a gap left by banks.(16:22) – A Mission-Driven Nonprofit Born From a StatisticWhy solving for 75 homeless female veterans launched a 10-year philanthropic journey.(17:52) – Art, Architecture, and Awe in Affordable HousingFrom Skid Row to design-forward developments, how beauty shapes better communities.(20:08) – The Small Details That Reveal Big TalentJeffrey’s unique hiring rituals, favorite failure questions, and what actually signals leadership potential.---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/cw1JGKM9blESpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/jeffrey-jaeger

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, Lisa Flicker sits down with Brandon Sedloff, Chief Real Estate Officer at Juniper Square, for a rich and candid conversation about career pivots, the power of listening, and the evolution of the real estate industry. From his early dreams of becoming a developer to leading tech-forward strategies at Juniper Square, Brandon shares valuable insights on mentorship, professional identity, and why emotional intelligence (EQ) and AI literacy are the future of private markets. Whether you're a student, emerging leader, or seasoned professional, this episode will inspire you to think bigger about your path — and your purpose.Chapters(00:29) – From Real Estate Roots to Tech LeadershipBrandon shares his unconventional career path, growing up in a real estate family, and learning the hard truth: developers need capital.(04:06) – The Developer Dream vs. RealityA powerful anecdote from Jim Buie at Hines helps Brandon realize that slow-moving development wasn’t the right path for him.(07:16) – Making the World Smaller: ULI & Community BuildingHow Brandon leveraged the Urban Land Institute (ULI) to build communities and expand professionally — from San Diego to Hong Kong.(12:37) – The Listening Tour & Technology's Tipping PointBrandon unpacks what he learned from a global “listening tour” and how technology is no longer optional in real estate.(14:06) – AI and the Future of Real EstateReal talk on AI, prompt engineering, and why technophobia is no longer an option for real estate professionals.(20:53) – The Distribution Podcast: Origins & PurposeBrandon explains how his podcast came to be, its mission, and why storytelling matters more than ever.(24:44) – The Gap Year That Changed EverythingA story about almost saying no to a trip around the world—and why lived experiences outside of work matter in your career.(28:55) – Honest Expectations in Internships & JobsAdvice for young professionals on setting mutual expectations with employers to avoid mismatched outcomes.(34:24) – The Hot SeatRapid-fire questions on books, exercise, hiring, and why grit and storytelling matter more than resumes.(39:06) – Mentorship MomentsBrandon shares pivotal advice from mentors that helped him clarify his “personal genius” and career direction.---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/GLD0dLKRJIMSpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/brandon-sedloff

In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Lisa Flicker sits down with Alex Valente, a former actor turned real estate developer and Principal at Trammell Crow Company. Alex shares his unconventional journey from the stages of Hollywood to the construction sites of Southern California, including how he leveraged acting, tennis coaching, and a deep curiosity to build a successful career in real estate development.From living in 6 communities in 18 months to better understand the renter experience, to leading iconic mixed-use projects in San Pedro, Alex explains why empathy, curiosity, and authenticity matter just as much as spreadsheets and steel beams in today’s real estate industry.Whether you’re just entering the field or pivoting careers, Alex’s story offers a compelling, human-centered view of what it means to lead and grow in development today.Chapters(00:00) From NYC to LA: Acting Dreams and Tennis Lessons(02:40) Breaking Into Real Estate with Help from a Mentor(04:15) IMDb Credits, Soap Operas, and the Cold Case Cameo(06:30) What Acting Taught Him About Commitment and Career Change(07:10) Starting in Real Estate During the Post-Recession Recovery(09:00) Why Trammell Crow & Learning from the Best Matters(11:00) Public-Private Projects, RFPs, and Urban Transformation(12:30) Favorite Project: Vivo on Harbor in San Pedro(14:00) The Power of Retail Activation and Community Engagement(15:20) Living in His Own Projects: Six Places in 18 Months(17:40) Boots on the Ground: What Real Empathy in Development Looks Like(21:00) What Trammell Crow Looks for When Hiring New Talent(23:00) How Acting Informed His Leadership Style in Development(24:00) Final Reflections on Mentorship, Authenticity, and FamilyLinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/9IEv2dqXqfASpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/alex-valente

Beyond the Resume presents a special throwback episode for Affordable Housing Month, featuring Sean Kelly, Partner & Executive Vice President of Leon N. Weiner & Associates (LNWA). In this deep-dive conversation with host Chris Papa, Sean shares the mission-driven legacy of LNWA, how affordable housing development really works, and what it takes to succeed in the industry today. From LIHTC and HUD financing to social service coordination and local engagement, this episode is packed with practical insights and powerful stories for anyone passionate about housing equity.Whether you're new to the field or a seasoned pro, Sean’s journey — from construction laborer to real estate leader — offers a behind-the-scenes look at the complexity and impact of affordable housing development.Subscribe and share to support mission-driven real estate!Chapters(03:00) LNWA’s History & Vertically Integrated Business Model(06:00) Affordable Housing Development Focus & LIHTC Strategy(08:00) Navigating Local Politics & Building Community Buy-In(11:00) Leasing & Income Qualification for Affordable Housing(13:00) Resident Support Services & Community Impact(17:00) Sean’s Personal Career Path & Family Legacy(20:00) Lessons from the Field: From Laborer to Leader(23:00) Advice for Entering the Affordable Housing Industry(27:00) The Hot Seat(30:00) Skiing, Family Life & Finding Balance(32:30) Hiring Insights & What LNWA Looks for in Talent---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/mf2R_ssH7JgSpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/sean-kelly

👀 YouTube: https://youtu.be/2VnEOvP2I4o • 👂 Spotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTIn this episode of Beyond the Resume, Chris Papa interviews Robin Zeigler, Founder, CEO, and CIO of MURAL Real Estate Partners, a mission-driven firm transforming underinvested communities through strategic retail-anchored development.Robin shares how her background as a REIT executive inspired MURAL's unique approach to mixed-use revitalization in markets like Jamaica, Queens, and Southwest Atlanta. She unpacks MURAL’s six points of advocacy, explains why retail is the “amenity of choice,” and offers career advice to aspiring real estate professionals.🔍 Topics include public-private partnerships, equitable housing, commercial retail strategy, female leadership in CRE, and Robin’s unexpected path from accountant to entrepreneur.👉 Whether you're in real estate, urban development, or impact investing, this conversation is packed with insights on building communities that work for everyone.(00:45) – What MURAL Stands For: Mixed-Use Revitalization Approached Locally(02:30) – From COO to CEO: Robin’s Transition & MURAL’s Mission(03:18) – Why Retail Comes First in MURAL’s Mixed-Use Strategy(04:19) – Current Projects: Jamaica, Queens & Southwest Atlanta(05:27) – Public-Private Partnerships Explained(06:15) – Designing from the Ground Up: Prioritizing Retail(08:35) – Creating Neighborhoods Through Six Points of Advocacy(12:00) – Building a (Mostly) All-Female Team(14:30) – Robin’s Career Journey: From Accounting to Real Estate(18:30) – The Hot Seat(20:42) – Most Memorable Deal: DC’s Ward 7 Master Plan(23:05) – What Robin Looks for When Hiring(26:06) – Mentorship vs. Sponsorship in Her Career---LinksYouTube: https://youtu.be/2VnEOvP2I4oSpotify: https://spoti.fi/35ZJGLTApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9Web: https://www.jacksonlucas.com/podcast/robin-zeigler