Channels with Peter Kafka

Not long ago, most Americans had never heard of data centers. Now most Americans are actively opposed to them.It’s a head-snapping change — one that is befuddling tech bosses, and forcing some politicians to quickly change their tune.It’s the second part that I wanted to talk to David Weigel about. Weigel has been covering politics for years — he’s at Semafor now — and has a well-earned reputation for on-the-ground reporting, around the US. So I wanted his point of view on why the anti-data center movement — and the anti-tech movement in general — has sprung up, and how it is scrambling elections around the country.Plus: Elon Musk’s return to midterm politics, the growing revolt against Flock cameras, and what it takes for a political reporter to figure out whether an online argument is real in the first place. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Microdramas are the new phone-first soap operas: stories chopped into dozens of one-minute episodes: Low-budget productions filled with romance, werewolves, secret babies, and cliffhangers—and, eventually, a request that you pay to keep watching. Surprisingly, lots of people do.So how big is this business? And is it sustainable?I talk with Ali Albazaz, the CEO of Inkitt, which runs the CandyJar microdrama app, about turning web fiction into video, why he thinks CandyJar can be the HBO of microdramas, and why he is now making AI-generated action and superhero shows for men. Then I talk with Hernan Lopez of Owl & Co., whose new report estimates microdramas are already a $4 billion business outside China. We also talk about the obvious looming question: What happens when TikTok decides it wants to own this business itself? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sports teams keep selling for more money because, in theory, their media rights keep becoming more valuable. But the companies that actually pay for sports TV are starting to push back. John Ourand of Puck joins me to break down Bob Iger and Josh Kushner’s $12.5 billion deal for the Los Angeles Lakers— and whether the number makes sense if local and national TV money is no longer guaranteed to keep rising. Then: the NFL wanted its TV partners to reopen their current rights deals early and pay more now. Fox’s Lachlan Murdoch said no, and John explains why NBC, ESPN, Amazon, and everyone else seems happy to let Fox take the heat. Also discussed: Apple’s very different bets on MLS and Formula 1, why ESPN let F1 go, and whether the WNBA is wisely spreading its games across many networks—or making fans hunt for them. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joanna Stern spent more than a decade explaining technology to Wall Street Journal readers. Now she’s doing it on her own — with a new media company, New Things, and a new book, I Am Not a Robot, about spending a year outsourcing as much of her life as possible to AI. Joanna and I talk about what AI turned out to be surprisingly good at, why robots still can’t fold your laundry, and why she thinks the new Siri is a very big deal. We also try to figure out why OpenAI and Jony Ive think we need a new screenless gadget — and whether anyone actually wants to spend less time looking at screens. Then: What happens when a star journalist leaves a giant media company and has to build a business herself? Joanna tells me how much work goes into the ambitious YouTube videos she’s making, whether they actually pay for themselves, and whether she wants New Things to stay the Joanna Stern show or become something bigger. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two years ago, Oliver Darcy left CNN and launched Status, a paid newsletter focused on the media business. The basic bet was that readers would pay for the scoops and insider reporting he had been producing at CNN. That bet appears to be working. Status now has four full-time employees, more than 130,000 people on its email list, and “many thousands” of paying subscribers. Darcy has also added advertising, a podcast and YouTube show, and an upcoming live conference. He says subscriptions alone support the newsroom—and that he wants to build a media company that can eventually thrive without him. I asked Darcy how the business has evolved, what actually converts readers into paying subscribers, and why he’s spending money to expand a simple and profitable newsletter operation. We also talked about the story Status has covered more aggressively than any other over the past year: Bari Weiss’s takeover of CBS News, the upheaval at 60 Minutes, and what David Ellison may do with CNN if Paramount completes its Warner Bros. Discovery deal. And Darcy explains why he thinks much of the media press is too soft—and why he thinks the Status house style isn't hyperbole, but candor. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I last talked to Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw, Netflix was buying Warner Bros. Discovery. Six months later, Paramount has the deal — but, surprisingly, it’s on hold while a group of states tries to block it in court.Lucas and I talk about whether Larry and David Ellison can still muscle the acquisition through, how long the fight could drag on, and what this fall’s elections could mean for the would-be deal.Then: Netflix says it doesn’t have an engagement problem, even as it gives investors less data and searches for its next big source of growth. And Hollywood is celebrating a blockbuster summer — but moviegoing remains far below its historic peak. Are the movies actually back?Also discussed: YouTube’s emergence as Hollywood’s new farm system, and why Comcast decided to get out of the media business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are a normal person, so if you think about “people writing their own newsletters” you probably think: “Substack”. But just as Xerox isn’t the only way to make photocopies, Substack doesn’t own the professional newsletter industry. So let’s meet a competitor: Beehiiv, run by 32-year-old CEO Tyler Denk. Denk helped build Morning Brew’s newsletter machine before launching Beehiiv, and he has a clear pitch for creators thinking about using one versus the other: Substack wants readers to open its app, follow writers, and spend time in a Substack-branded social network. Beehiiv wants to disappear into the background while its customers build brands of their own. Denk helped build Morning Brew’s newsletter machine before launching Beehiiv, which now powers everyone from independent journalists (previous Channels guests Lachlan Cartwright and Oliver Darcy both use it to power their media newsletters) to companies like Time and TechCrunch. He joins me to explain why he thinks the newsletter business still has lots of room to grow — even though my inbox suggests otherwise — and why advertising, not just subscriptions, can support the next wave of independent media businesses. Also discussed here: Why Denk used to think a business like his would most definitely be replaced by vibe-coded software, and why he no longer thinks that. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Balfe is the CEO of Red Seat Ventures, the company behind some of the biggest names in podcasting, including Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Bill O’Reilly, and, more recently, Kill Tony. Since we last spoke, Red Seat has been acquired by Fox, making it one of the company’s biggest bets on the creator economy. So I asked him what that actually means—for Fox, for creators, and for the podcast business itself. We talk about why Netflix is offering huge checks to podcasters, and why Chris thinks many creators should think twice before taking the money. We discuss YouTube’s rise, why he thinks “podcast” is becoming an outdated term, and why video—not audio—is now driving much of the industry’s growth. We also get into one of his biggest concerns: the clipping economy. Chris argues that podcast creators and media companies have spent years giving their best content to TikTok, Instagram, and other platforms for little or no compensation—and that the economics of short-form video increasingly benefit the platforms, not the people making the shows. And, of course, we talk about Fox: what has (and hasn’t) changed since it bought Red Seat, why Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly stayed after the acquisition, and how Fox sees creators fitting into its future. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Kahn runs the New York Times newsroom, which means he runs the most powerful news operation in the world. He joins me to talk about what that power is for — and why he thinks the Times’ next big transformation is video, and why the paper is in “a race against time” to compete with "AI-generated slop.” We also discuss whether the Times is really a Games company now, how he handles angry readers, why he’s wary of the creator economy, what star reporters are worth, and how the Times is using AI while suing OpenAI. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We originally published this interview with Bloomberg's Joe Weisenthal on Feb. 11, 2026, and it's one of my favorite chats of the year. We'll be back with a new conversation on July 8. If Joe Weisenthal didn’t exist, the internet would have to invent him. Because Joe Weisenthal is built for the internet — more specifically, an internet personality: Knows a lot, curious about even more, often right, happy to be wrong, always has something to say about anything. That persona/personality did wonders for Joe in the early days of Business Insider — which, not coincidentally, were also the early days of Twitter, where Joe really took off. Then he took his talents to Bloomberg, and since then has turned himself into a successful business/finance podcaster: Along with co-host Tracy Alloway, they’ve turned “Odd Lots” into a project no one at their employer knew or cared about into a genuine hit. Discussed here: Why Joe is still at Bloomberg, instead of doing the indie media route that could make him a gazillion dollars; what makes a perfect podcast guest; and Joe’s semi-secret country music ambitions. Plus something smart you can say about tariffs, if you’re in a place where people are talking about tariffs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Rebooting's Brian Morrissey joins me from Cannes, where OpenAI is pitching advertisers, creators are becoming media brands, and thousands of people are still flying across the Atlantic to meet with people they could see back home. We talk about what's changed in advertising, what's changed in media, and why Cannes keeps getting bigger. We also get into why the ad industry's biggest gathering feels increasingly disconnected from the ads themselves; why CMOs are the real celebrities of Cannes; how creators like Emily Sundberg fit into the modern marketing ecosystem; and whether AI is actually transforming advertising—or just giving everyone a new buzzword to put on a slide deck. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today’s show is about money, and how to make it in entertainment. The streaming boom made Hollywood feel like it had solved its money problem: Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Disney and everyone else wanted endless stuff. Top talent got paid, and so did everyone else. That boom is over, and now the industry is consolidating. And at the same time, lots of artifacts of old Hollywood that could generate a lot of money for some people — like syndication payouts in TV or backend deals for movies — don’t really exist in a world dominated by streamers. So how do actors, writers, directors, producers and creators make money in 2026? Peter Micelli, CEO of Range Media Partners, makes his money by representing talent like Bradley Cooper, Tom Hardy and Halle Berry. He’s been arguing for a while that stars shouldn’t just wait for work, but should be out there turning themselves into businesses. That certainly won’t work for everyone, but I think if you squint you can see a new economy starting up — especially for creatives who have meaningful followings online. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brian Stelter and Nilay Patel are both covering big, powerful institutions that are undergoing real change, whether they like it or not. Stelter, CNN’s chief media analyst, joins me to talk about the mess at CBS News and 60 Minutes: What is Bari Weiss’s rationale for trying to remake Paramount’s news operations? And does owner David Ellison care about the very inevitable stumbles that have followed since she showed up? We talk about Scott Pelley’s public exit interview, what 60 Minutes might look like next fall, and why this has morphed from a media industry story to one normal people seem to care about. Also discussed: The fact that Stelter could end up working for Weiss in the near future. Then Nilay Patel, editor-in-chief of The Verge, joins from Apple’s Worldwide Developers Conference, where Apple tried to convince everyone that it has an AI plan — and why that plan is different and better than the one it promised in 2024 and never delivered. A new Siri — if it works as advertised — sounds great. But what’s really important for Apple's AI strategy, Patel argues, is prepping for a future where the iPhone gets displaced by… something. Also discussed: The fact that Vox Media, the company that owns both The Verge and the podcast network you’re listening to right now, are about to split up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dhar Mann’s videos look simple, because they are simple: Someone acts badly, someone learns a lesson, everyone gets a moral by the end. You don’t have to be a kid to enjoy these, but it helps.The business behind them is complex. Mann has built a scripted-video studio that turns out TV-length episodes in weeks, generating billions of views a month. Now he tells me he’s expanding beyond YouTube and Facebook into places like Samsung TVs and Fox-backed microdramas, and he thinks the assembly line he’s built will work, there, too. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I think of Dow Jones as The Wall Street Journal, because that’s the part I know — and the part I used to work near/around/inside. But Dow Jones CEO Almar Latour has built a much bigger business around the Journal: risk and compliance, energy data, Factiva, AI deals, and other stuff that sounds boring until you realize how much money companies will pay for it. So I asked Latour to explain why Dow Jones is doing well while so many other media companies are struggling, howEmma Tucker, the Wall Street Journal's editor-in-chief, is changing the Journal, what he’s trying to do with AI, and what it’s like to run a Murdoch-owned newsroom that covers Rupert Murdoch and Donald Trump. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jim Bankoff has spent nearly 20 years building Vox Media. Now he’s selling a big chunk of it to James Murdoch, who is acquiring Vox Media's Podcast Network - the same one that produces this podcast - along with New York Magazine and Vox.com. We do all the disclosures at the top of this interview, but let’s do it all here too: I’ve worked for Jim for a long time, and I work with the podcast network he’s selling, and I just like him as a human. So this one’s way more conflicted than a standard Channels chat.Still, I have some straight-ahead questions for him. Like: What does it mean when multiple buyers were interested in his podcast business, but much less interested in the rest of the portfolio he’s been assembling for years? What changes for the properties Murdoch acquires? And why is Jim staying on to work for Murdoch, when he can almost certainly do something else? And, because it’s Channels, we also gaze backwards a bit, and poke at some of the steps and missteps Vox Media took along the way. But if you’re looking for a wake for a digital media startup, this isn’t it. Jim is very optimistic about what comes next, and I have a vested interest in him being right. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Versant is the new company Comcast created when it spun off CNBC, MS NOW, USA and other cable networks it no longer wanted inside the mothership. That makes Mark Lazarus’ job pretty simple to describe and very hard to do: take a business built around cable TV — an industry in obvious decline — and use the cash it still generates to build new businesses.I talked to Lazarus on the day Versant reported its first real earnings as a standalone company — and the day its stock bounced after getting hammered out of the gate. He says the early selloff was predictable; that Comcast didn’t “ditch” Versant; and that independence gives him the chance to invest in assets instead of kicking the cash up to the bosses in Philadelphia.We talked about what Versant is supposed to become, whether MSNBC -- now MS NOW -- can build a Fox Nation-style subscription business; why CNBC is getting into investor tools; how long NBCUniversal will keep selling Versant’s ads; what kinds of companies Lazarus wants to buy; and why he’s not buying the Vox Media Podcast Network yours truly works with.The bottom line: Lazarus says he needs about three years to prove this works. Let’s see if Wall Street is that patient. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Roger Lynch has spent the last seven years trying to turn Condé Nast from a magazine company into a profitable portfolio of global brands. Now he has a new set of problems: Google traffic is disappearing, AI companies want to use Condé’s work, and everyone in media is trying to figure out who still has leverage. I talked to Lynch about the end of Google search traffic, why Condé is doing deals with OpenAI and other AI companies, and how the company thinks about the Met Gala, independent creators, and The Devil Wears Prada 2. And if you're looking for news about who succeeds legendary editors Anna Wintour and David Remnick: Lynch says he has a plan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The internet is in its let-it-rip era: more AI slop, more video, more clips — and very little in the way of guardrails or rules. Charlie Warzel, who writes and hosts Galaxy Brain for The Atlantic, joins me to talk about what happens when the platforms stop trying very hard to separate the good stuff from the garbage. Do we actually care if a human made the LinkedIn post, the marketing copy, or the video in our feed? Or do we only care when the slop gets in the way? Then we get into the video-everything moment: Why every podcast is becoming a video podcast, why clips may matter more than the shows they come from, and what Charlie has learned from becoming a video person  — as I mentioned, he has a podcast now — after years of writing about video people. That leads to a bigger media question: what can old-school media companies learn from creators, Substackers, and YouTubers — and what do they usually misunderstand when they try to hire or absorb them? Charlie has been one of my trusted guides to internet culture for years. I highly recommend starting your own podcast so you can invite him on to talk to you directly. And in the meantime, enjoy this one. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Learn to code, they told us. Then the computers went and learned to code. Now anyone can do it, in theory, courtesy of Claude Code and other vibe coding apps. Tech people I talk to are very, very excited about this. But they often have a hard time explaining to me, a non-coder, why AI-powered coding is such a big deal. And whether it’s a big deal to everyone who already codes or deals with software for a living — or whether it’s a big deal for everyone who uses software. All of us, that is. Here to the rescue is Paul Ford, a guy who learned to code and who also learned to write and talk, like a human. Paul is the guy who wrote an entire issue of Businessweek dedicated to a single question — What is Code? — and blogs at Ftrain.com; but his day job is making software, which he does at Aboard. Paul is not the guy who can tell you what’s going to happen to Saas stocks, or if AI is going to wipe out all the jobs, some jobs or will create a gazillion new jobs. Anyone who tells you any of those answers with confidence, he says, is making it up. But he can tell you and me why the recent change in AI-produced software — something that really kicked in over the last few months — is changing his life, and why it’s going to change software for good. And he’ll help you think about what that means for you, a normal person. You’ll like this one. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jason Blum built one of Hollywood’s smartest businesses: make low-budget horror movies, give filmmakers room, pay talent on the back end, and let the hits carry the misses. It worked so well that it became a Harvard Business Review case study.But the movie business that made that model work has changed: Theatrical is weaker, lots of people are making horror movies, studios are consolidating, and AI is the latest thing Hollywood is supposed to fear — or embrace.So I sat down with Blum at a live Business Insider event in San Francisco to ask what still works. We talked about why his new Mummy movie is a very different bet than the movies that built Blumhouse, why he thinks consolidation is bad for Hollywood even if new buyers like Amazon and Apple help offset it, why he’d make AI disappear from moviemaking if he could — while still insisting his team learn how to use it — and what he learns from flops. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sam Altman has spent years presenting himself as the face of AI: The guy warning that the technology could change everything, and the guy insisting that he should be the one to build it. Now we are facing some overdue questions: Can we trust Sam Altman with the massive power AI may generate? And should we trust anyone with that power? Ronan Farrow and Andrew Marantz join me to talk about their New Yorker profile of the OpenAI CEO, the internal fights around OpenAI’s mission, and why so many people who’ve worked with Altman keep coming back to the same concerns about trust. We talk about Altman’s talent for telling different audiences different things; why Silicon Valley’s usual tolerance for founder myth-making looks different when the product is AI; and how OpenAI went from warning about dangerous race dynamics to helping kick one off with ChatGPT. Then we broaden out: if the real problem is structural, not just personal, what kind of oversight should exist for the people building a technology they say could reshape all of our lives? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jonathan Glatzer has written for shows like Succession and Better Call Saul. Now he’s got his own: The Audacity, a new AMC drama set in Silicon Valley.So why make a Silicon Valley show right now — and what, exactly, is he trying to say about tech? Glatzer tells me he wasn’t interested in making a wall-to-wall “tech show,” or in doing spot-the-billionaire satire. Instead, he says, he wanted to focus on the people living inside that world: the strivers, service providers, almost-rich neighbors, therapists, and families orbiting vast amounts of money and power. We talk about why privacy and data collection still worry him more than AI hype; why he thinks tech has failed to deliver on many of its biggest promises; and why he’s more interested in the human consequences of Silicon Valley than in explaining how the industry works. Plus: what it means to make a prestige-style TV drama in a post-Peak TV market, why AMC was willing to take a swing on this one, and how you fake Silicon Valley by shooting in Vancouver. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Elon Musk has spent the last year being quieter than usual — by Elon Musk standards.That may be about to change in a very big way, as his SpaceX moves toward what could be one of the biggest IPOs in history. So what, exactly, is Musk selling? A rocket company? A satellite internet giant? An AI play? Or just the latest, biggest version of Elon himself?Bloomberg’s Max Chafkin, who has been tracking Musk for a couple of decades, joins me to walk through what Musk has actually been up to lately. We talk about what SpaceX is now that it includes multiple businesses under one roof; why Musk might want to take it public after years of insisting he didn’t; and how much of the pitch is grounded in real operating businesses — rockets! Satellite internet! — versus the familiar promise of something much vaguer and hard to assess.Then we broaden out: Tesla’s drift from car company to AI-and-robotics story, whether X is still a business or simply a political and cultural weapon, and what changed after Musk’s break with Trump. The bigger question underneath all of it: has Musk built a coherent empire — or just a very effective machine for turning hype, power, and celebrity into capital? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Prediction markets are suddenly everywhere: in sports, in politics, in the media business — and, depending on who you ask, they’re either a useful forecasting tool or just gambling with better branding. So what changed? And why is the federal government sounding more like a booster than a regulator? WIRED’s Kate Knibbs joins me to explain why she made prediction markets her beat, how Kalshi and Polymarket went mainstream, why Trump-world is so friendly to them, why some states are trying to stop them, and what happens when more and more of public life gets turned into a bet. We also talk about media companies cutting deals with prediction-market firms, the blurry rules around insider trading, and why this story is really about the casino-fication of everything. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lots of publishers are freaked out about “Google Zero” — the notion that one day, Google will stop sending them any traffic at all. That’s more or less already happened at People Inc., says CEO Neil Vogel. Vogel says Google used to account for 70% of his properties’ traffic, but dropped off quickly in the last couple years. Now Google represents about 25% of his mix. That decline is supposed to be an existential problem for people like Vogel, who built a series of sites designed to harvest search traffic. Instead, he’s growing at a double-digit clip. One reason People Inc. is doing well is that Vogel, backed by Barry Diller’s IAC, bought People, along with all the other titles owned by magazine publisher Meredith back in 2021. Turns out many of those brands still mean something to lots of people. Meanwhile, Vogel has been happy to sign deals with AI companies like OpenAI. Isn’t there a chance those companies will end up being unreliable partners, just like platforms of the past? Sure, Vogel says. But he’s willing to take the chance — and the money those AI companies are providing — and figure it out as he goes. “There is a chance we are a hundred percent wrong on all of this,” he tells me. “There's a chance that we're a hundred percent right. The truth is probably somewhere in between.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oscar season is supposed to be Hollywood’s lap. It is also, increasingly, a reminder of how shaky things are in Hollywood right now. And this one comes as one of the town’s most prominent players is about to be swallowed by a new mogul, backed by tech money. Here to unpack all of it is Puck’s Matt Belloni, who explains why we may never see an Oscars like this again; how the show will — or won’t — change when it migrates to YouTube in a couple years; how the movie business thinks about the upcoming Paramount/WBD deal; and some 100% not guaranteed betting advice for Sunday night’s show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The World Cup is coming to the U.S (and Canada, and Mexico) in less than 100 days. Perhaps you’re an American who doesn’t care about soccer, and has given this news zero thought. That won’t be an option when the games arrive, says Roger Bennett. The CEO of the Men in Blazers podcast network — and author of “We Are the World (Cup)”, a personal history of the tournament — tells me this won’t be like anything we’ve seen here; even for old timers like me, who can remember the 1994 edition, which the U.S. also hosted. This time around, Roger predicts, we are going to feel the “global eclipse” of attention the games generate, and will be astonished when places like Kansas City and Seattle turn into temporary versions of Argentina and the Netherlands. Even if you don’t watch a single second of a single game, you won’t be able to ignore it. The other thing you won’t be able to ignore: The fact that America is hosting the world at the same time it is telling much of the world to pound sand. What happens if/when  “America First” politics, visas, and Homeland Security become part of the tournament’s story? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Netflix shocked the world last year by winning a deal to buy Warner Bros. Discovery. This week it shocked us by walking away.In this emergency bonus episode, CNBC’s Alex Sherman walks us through the whiplash: Why Netflix chose not to counter Paramount, what the market blowback signaled, and how much of this was about price versus the very real prospect of a long, ugly regulatory and political slog.Then we spin it forward: what a Paramount/WBD mash-up means in practice (translation: overlap, “synergies,” and a lot of job anxiety)? What happens to crown-jewel assets like HBO and CNN? And why this isn’t just another media merger, but a power shift. We don’t really know what David and Larry Ellison have planned for their newly acquired media empire — but we do know that they are now very big players. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brian Stelter puts its clearly: "All M&A runs through the Oval Office right now.” So how much does Trump matter in the Netflix/Paramount battle for Warner Bros. Discovery — and what does he want out of it? Stelter, CNN’s chief media analyst and author of the newsletter Reliable Sources, walks us through the information vacuum around the deal, Trump’s habit of inserting himself as a would-be kingmaker, and the harder-to-prove question haunting every newsroom: not just what Trump says out loud, but what companies do (or don’t do) because they’re afraid to become his next target. Then we broaden out: Brendan Carr’s FCC and broadcast pressure, the Nexstar/TEGNA fight, and what’s going on in Murdochland when Trump can sue the Wall Street Journal and still break bread with Rupert Murdoch. Plus: the state of CNN — and what it’s like to work at a network that may have a new owner sooner than later.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Janice Min and Reed Duchscher are both building new media companies in LA. But their perspectives are quite different: Min runs The Ankler, the trade pub that mostly focuses on the fate of Big Media companies like Paramount and Netflix; Duchscher runs Night, a talent agency focused on digital talent like Kai Cenat and Hassan Piker (he’s best known for his work with Mr. Beast).So it’s not totally shocking that my conversation with Min is a pretty downbeat chat about the state of the industry — LA, she says, currently has “a Detroit Vibe”. And that my chat with Duchscher is more upbeat — he just raised $70 million to build out his business.But there’s still a lot of overlap in these two conversations, because both of these CEOs are trying to build businesses that can stand up to industry changes. Min, for instance, is getting ready to live in a world where consolidation means a smaller pool of advertisers for her publication. And Duchscher is trying to navigate platforms like YouTube, which is simultaneously asking his clients to make long-form videos that can work on TV, and clips built for YouTube shorts, its TikTok knock off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If Joe Weisenthal didn’t exist, the internet would have to invent him. Because Joe Weisenthal is built for the internet — more specifically, an internet personality: Knows a lot, curious about even more, often right, happy to be wrong, always has something to say about anything.That persona/personality did wonders for Joe in the early days of Business Insider — which, not coincidentally, were also the early days of Twitter, where Joe really took off. Then he took his talents to Bloomberg, and since then has turned himself into a successful business/finance podcaster: Along with co-host Tracy Alloway, they’ve turned “Odd Lots” from a project no one at Bloomberg paid attention to into a genuine hit.Discussed here: Why Joe is still at Bloomberg, instead of doing the indie media route that could make him a gazillion dollars; what makes a perfect podcast guest; and Joe’s semi-secret country music ambitions. Plus, something smart you can say about tariffs, if you’re in a place where people are talking about tariffs.Bonus content! This pod also includes a conversation with filmmaker Adam Bhala Lough, who wanted to make a movie about OpenAI’s Sam Altman, but couldn’t. So he made a fake Sam Altman instead, which is why his movie is called Deepfaking Sam Altman. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jeff Bezos used to be the savior of The Washington Post. He bought it for $250 million in 2013, and then invested money and energy into turning it around — and it worked.Now the Amazon founder is decimating the Post’s staff, and his managers are telling the ones who are left that things have to change.So what happened, and what happens next? Erik Wemple is the right person to ask: He spent years covering media at the Post, and now he’s at the New York Times, where he’s covering the collapse of his old home. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In February 2020, Disney CEO Bob Iger finally announced his successor: Bob Chapek, who ran the company’s parks business. That didn’t work out.Now Iger is running it back: This time around he’s announced that Josh D’Amaro, who runs the company’s park business, is going to succeed him.So: Who is Josh D’Amaro, and what has he done to prove himself CEO-worthy? Why does Iger (and the Disney board) think this one will work? And what happens to all the Disney businesses D’Amaro doesn’t have any background in - you know, the movies and TV shows you think about when you think of Disney?We have an excellent guest to walk us through all of this: Puck’s Julia Alexander, who has been covering Disney for years — and also worked there for a year doing strategy stuff.Julia’s argument in a nutshell: Disney doesn’t know what’s going to happen to the business of making things like movies and TV shows. But it knows people are going to keep coming to its parks and cruises, so it hired the guy that knows that business. Is that the right call? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In an ideal world, I wouldn’t be bringing you an interview with the editor of the Minnesota Star Tribune about her paper’s coverage of the killing of Alex Pretti in the same episode where I interview the man behind HBO’s newest Game of Thrones show. But we’re not in an ideal world right now. So here’s a conversation with Star Tribune editor Kathleen Hennessey — who left the New York Times to take the gig less than a year ago — about the challenges of covering the chaos in the Twin Cities, and how the paper tries to distinguish itself from the many, many competitors it has on this story. From the NYT itself to citizens posting their own videos. And then I chat with Ira Parker, whose “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” is HBO’s newest GOT extension. But this one differs from the others in ways you can see onscreen — it’s lighter and more fun, and doesn’t require viewers to understand things like the Targaryen family tree — and in offscreen ways you can’t necessarily see — namely, that it’s much cheaper to make. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football isn’t just the biggest show on TV — at this point, it’s basically the only reason some TV networks exist. So it’s a very worthy subject for Chuck Klosterman, the provocative and prolific writer, to tackle in his new book, which is called… Football. The big Channels idea here is to talk about football’s dominance in American media and culture, and What That Means — and how that might end, one day. And we most definitely get into that. But when you have Chuck Klosterman in studio, you talk about as much as you can. So in this this one, we also get into: Why football is a “completely mediated,” made-for-tv-even-if-accidentally experience — and why “the only seat” is basically your couch How video games helped rewire the way fans understand (and even play) football How gambling created a “fake game” that sits on top of the real one Why the concussion panic faded even though the hits didn’t Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

News is a tough business. So how did Semafor, the news startup founded by Ben Smith and Justin Smith, figure out how to turn a profit in their third year of business? Excellent journalism certainly helps. But it’s really because the company made two key decisions: Focusing on events — and focusing on events in Washington, D.C., where companies will pay a lot of money to reach a relatively small crowd of influential people. There’s more to it than that, as Semafor’s CEOJustin Smith explains to me in our conversation. But it’s not a coincidence that Semafor is doing well in the same market that’s been quite kind to other news startups in recent years, including Axios and Punchbowl. So one big question I had going into this conversation — and one I still have — is whether you can adapt the Semafor playbook if your media company isn’t oriented around the C Suite/K Street set. But take a listen and let me know what you think. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How, exactly, did Bari Weiss become the head of CBS News? We know that David Ellison, who bought Paramount last year, hired her — and bought The Free Press, the publication she started a few years earlier. But how did she get on Ellison’s radar? And why are so many media moguls, like Ellison, huge fans? New York magazine’s Charlotte Klein knows. She recently published an excellent profile of Weiss that tracks her ascent over the last few years, and I wanted to talk to her about it. It’s a story about networking, talent, and timing, and I think it tells us a lot about where we’re at right now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Craig Finn makes music — as the head of the Hold Steady, and on his solo records —  about grown-up lives and bad decisions. Back in 2017, we talked about his life as a working rock musician — and how touring actually works, how the band found a second life, and why fans and friendship matter more than old ideas of rock stardom. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

PJ Vogt helped invent modern narrative podcasting with “Reply All.” Now he’s running “Search Engine” with a much smaller team and a lot more control. We talk through what he gave up this time around, what he gained, and how he actually makes the show each week. I loved this conversation when we recorded it earlier this year. And I think it’s just as relevant now, as media talent — and lots of people in other industries, too — are figuring out how to think about money, ownership and scale. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The backstory here is that weeks ago, Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw agreed to join me for my 2025/2026 look back/look ahead episode. And then things got way more compelling, because Paramount and Netflix got into a truly unprecedented fight over the future of Warner Bros Discovery. So that’s what we’re talking about here, including: *Why this truly is a turning point for Hollywood, and streaming, and the great media/tech collision we’ve been covering for years. *How Trump, Middle Eastern money and antitrust regulators complicate the deal *Who actually needs this merger more. *What happens now that WBD has formally dismissed Paramount’s bid? Again: we recorded this a few days before the news — but as you’ll hear, we had a pretty good sense of how it was going to go. And because this still is a wrap-up episode, we got some AI vs. Hollywood chat into this one, as well as some listening/watching recs. PS: I’ve got some bonus programming coming to you over the next couple of weeks. Have a great holiday, and I’ll see you in January. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I chat with lots of media reporters. Lachlan Cartwright is a different beast: An Aussie who started out working for Rupert Murdoch’s tabloids in London and New York, and then on to the National Enquirer — yes, that National Enquirer — back when it was catching and killing stories on behalf on Donald Trump. Now Cartwright runs Breaker, a must-read New York media gossip newsletter and podcast, and spends his time staking out Sulzberger family barbecues, knocking on doors at 4:45 a.m., and writing about the people who run the news. We talk about how tabloid training shaped the way he reports; what he saw and did during his Enquirer years — and how he thinks about that period now; and why he believes there’s still a business (and an appetite) for smart, funny, deeply-inside media gossip. And then I put him to work, dishing on the big under-covered stories we will be talking about in the next year. Cheers! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In 2013, Netflix wanted to become HBO. Now Netflix is going to buy HBO along with the Warner Bros. Studio, in a blockbuster $83 billion deal. Wowza. Here to talk me through this is Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw, who has been deep in the deal talks for weeks. Discussed in this one: *How did Netflix maneuver its way into a deal everyone thought Paramount would win? *Will this deal actually get past Donald Trump and U.S. regulators? *What does this deal — a kind of deal Netflix has never, ever made in the past — tell us about Netflix today? *What happens to my favorite HBO shows? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The last time I interviewed PBS CEO Paula Kerger was 2019: Donald Trump was President, and Republicans were trying to defund public media — as they had been trying to do for decades. That didn’t happen then, but this year it did, and now Kerger is trying to fill a $1 billion funding hole. So far, she says, PBS and its member stations have held up ok — no one has had to shut down, yet. But while Kerger holds out hope she can convince Congress to start funding public TV again, it’s worth talking about why federally funded public media was created in 1967 — and whether it still makes sense to continue that setup in 2025. And if federal funding is permanently off the table, what will PBS do — and not do -- in the future? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We built the modern media business for the web — for people who visited websites, read articles, and saw ads. What happens when no one does that anymore? That’s been one of the big themes of conversations we’ve been having on Channels with this year — with people who run big and small media properties, and with people who are trying to build media businesses. And that’s why I wanted to talk to Tony Haile. Tony got into digital media years ago, when he was the CEO of Chartbeat - the analytics site that trained every web publisher to watch what was happening to their properties in real time. Then he went on to build Scroll, a sort of ad-blocking subscription service that was meant to work with lots of news publishers. Twitter bought that one, then killed it. The point is that Tony has spent a lot of time talking and working with media companies of all sorts, and now… it looks like he’s getting out. So I wanted to talk him about why his new company — Filament — is not a media startup, and what he thinks is going to happen to the rest of the media business as AI washes over the landscape. This is going to sound like a bummer of a conversation — and in some parts it is! But he’s a good guide, and there are some glimmers of hope here and there. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you watched something on TV that you liked in the past few decades, there’s a good chance Kevin Reilly was involved: at various times he’s held top jobs at FX, Fox, NBC, Turner and HBO Max. But that run ended in 2020, and now Reilly is running Kartel, an AI company that… well, I’m still not entirely sure what it does. (To be fair, as Reilly notes in our chat, it’s a young company that’s still figuring it out itself.) But I really wanted to talk to Reilly to get his POV on TV, which more or less peaked when he was working in the industry. Now, of course, it is in what appears to be permanent decline, while its remaining participants try to merge their way to safety. Why did TV flourish in its not-that-long ago Golden Age? And why didn’t its leaders see — or act on — the threat that streaming/digital/internet tech would have on their industry? You probably have some ideas yourself. Now you get to hear it directly from a guy who was there, at the top. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s not unusual for a big TV network and a big TV distributor to fight about money. But the Disney-YouTube fight is unusual -- at the bare minimum, because it has stretched out for so long. CNBC’s Alex Sherman lives and breathes this stuff, so I asked him to walk me through it, and make some prognostications about when it might get settled (spoiler alert: he thinks some football fans who pay for YouTube TV may be unhappy for a while longer.) Then Sherman and I move on to the other Big Media deal: the battle for the company we currently call Warner Bros. Discovery, but is likely to be owned by someone else, in some form…. eventually. Discussed here: why, really, did Larry and David Ellison put in multiple offers to buy another media company weeks after they bought Paramount? What would they do with WBD if they got it? And are any of the theoretical other buyers for all or parts of WBD real? Bonus question for you: did I use the word “degradation” correctly in this one? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In some ways, the Bulwark feels like other small publishers in 2025: it’s found growth and profit by pushing itself out on any platform it can find. But that wasn’t the plan when the company started in 2018. Back then, it was a non-profit cofounded by Republicans who couldn’t stand their party’s embrace of Donald Trump, and wanted a place to organize, debate and push back. Over the years the site turned itself into a for-profit, and found success selling Substack subscriptions — it’s currently on pace to do more than $12 million a year from those alone, says CEO Sarah Longwell. But it has really caught fire in recent years by embracing YouTube. “The thing that made the biggest difference was when we decided to turn the cameras on,” she says. I talked to Longwell this week about the Bulwark’s evolution, and the tension between running a mission-driven company and one that wants to make money. And since Longwell still does political consulting and focus group work, I also talked to her about the state of the art when it comes to political media — and why she thinks Republicans are so much better at it then Democrats. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Would you pay $7 a month to stream CNN? Because CNN CEO Mark Thompson would like you to do that. I know, I know, I’m skeptical, too. But Thompson has been here before: At his last job, as CEO of the New York Times, he helped shepherd that company’s subscription business, which had a gazillion naysayers at the start. And now the Times’ business model is the envy of everyone in journalism. Can he do it again? One big difference is that the Times launched its paywall all the way back in 2011, before everyone was asking consumers to pay for monthly subscriptions for everything. I also have a hunch that the Times brand registers more deeply for its audience than CNN does for its. But now we’ll get to find out. Meantime, all of this is happening as CNN parent Warner Bros. Discovery is likely to get sold, yet again. Which means all of the work Thompson and his team are doing could get upended by a new management regime. But that’s the future. For now, it’s very much worth listening to Thompson make the case for CNN, and TV news in general. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We spend a lot of time on this show talking to people who run media companies. We also spend a lot of time talking to media reporters. So here’s our one-man Venn diagram: Brian Morrissey runs The Rebooting, where he podcasts, writes and hosts events, all geared at making people in the media business smarter about the media business. If you want to hear from a guy who understands the big picture, but also the practical realities of operating, he’s your guy. Brian has been preaching the gospel of small media for some time, so we start there: What is the upside of running a scaled-down media company these days — and what happens to all the businesses that spent years chasing scale? And yes, Brian and I also talk about AI, and what it will and won’t do for (and to) media. But we also spend a lot of time talking about Google, and the enormous power it currently has — particularly when it comes to the company’s Discover feature, which drives an astonishing amount of traffic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices