PODCAST · health
Chemstories – a podcast about PnP/chemsex (English-language edition)
by Qollab
Chemstories is a podcast series created by gay, bisexual, queer men, as well as trans and non-binary people who wish to share their experiences related to chemsex*.For Chemstories, we worked for over a year with our editorial board made up of individuals with firsthand experience of chemsex. Three members even became hosts for group discussions in their respective cities—Toronto, Montreal, and Halifax—whom you will meet in the upcoming episodes. From the very beginning, it was essential that this podcast be truly by and for the community.But Chemstories is more than a podcast — it’s the result of a collaborative investigation into the lived realities of chemsex. Together, we set out to explore one central question: "Why is it important for people with lived experience of PnP/chemsex to tell their stories in their own words?"This question came directly from our editorial board. They saw it as
-
31
28. YHZ Activism — Hey Andrew
In the inaugural episode of the YHZ Halifax flights, Investigator Olivier introduces local host Andrew, whose personal journey from daily chemsex use to becoming a key advocate in Nova Scotia shapes the conversation. He candidly addresses the "internalized homophobia" often found in more rural or industrial areas of the East Coast, which can drive chemsex further underground. He discusses a desire to reclaim the narrative around chemsex in smaller cities where privacy is scarce, and stigma runs high. Andrew highlights the unique challenges of the Halifax scene, and the lack of dedicated support services leaves many navigating their use in isolation. The episode delves into his efforts to fill these gaps, from running pilot harm reduction projects to creating an online resource hub. Ultimately, Andrew hopes the podcast will challenge the misconception that chemsex equals a "messy" life, instead showcasing the agency, complexity, and humanity of those involved. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Andrew’s Web site : Coming Spring 2026 Matthew Numer (Dalhousie University) : Philip Joy (Mount Saint Vincent University) : G-emergency Response
-
30
27. YHZ Prelude — Why It's Important, Halifax
In this prelude to the YHZ Halifax series, this episode centers on the central question of this podcast series: Why is it important for people with lived experience of PnP/chemsex to tell their own stories in their own words? First, Olivier Ferlatte, the principal investigator of Chemstories, asks the question to Halifax Host Andrew who emphasizes that lived experience is a powerful tool for empathy and destigmatization. Andrew then asks the same question to his guests Steven, James, Harry and Hector whose reflections set the tone for the episodes to come. Together, their voices underscore that visibility is key to building a supportive community where no one has to navigate the challenges of chemsex alone. They hope their stories will not only foster personal connections but also drive the creation of more effective, compassionate policies and support systems. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
29
26. YUL Plurality-Pt. 3 — Unapologetically
Éric, Ally, and Michael address the lack of support and visibility for gender-diverse individuals in the chemsex scene. Éric emphasizes that amplifying these rare voices is essential to breaking isolation for those who feel unseen. The group also critiques alienating, abstinence-only recovery models, instead celebrating the emergence of inclusive harm-reduction alternatives. They conclude by advocating for a diverse "safety net" of resources—offering multiple paths to health so fewer people fall through the cracks. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
28
25. YUL Plurality-Pt. 2 — Gender Play
Éric, Ally, and Michael examine performative gender pressures. Éric used chemsex to escape hyper-masculinity while briefly embodying its "super version." Ally similarly built a masculine persona for acceptance but eventually used these experiences to peel back those layers and reject external validation. The group also discusses how identity impacts relationships. Michael highlights the difficulty of finding authentic connection as a trans man in hypersexualized scenes, choosing to de-center sex for his mental health. Ally emphasizes that regular partners provided a safety net, protecting her from the fetishization and risks gender-diverse people often face in anonymous settings. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
27
24. YUL Plurality-Pt. 1 — Hey Ally & Michael
Montréal Host Éric introduces Ally and Michael to center gender-diverse voices in the chemsex conversation. Éric connects his drug use to his non-binary identity, discussing how gender dysphoria and a lack of affirming care can make substances a survival mechanism. Michael explains using chemsex to cope with transition-related isolation and to disconnect from bodily anxiety. Ally shares their journey from a religious background to Canada, where chemsex initially offered an escape from shame to explore identity. Together, they reflect on substance use as a temporary "solution" to a lack of validation, eventually realizing how these experiences helped them identify their authentic selves and what they needed to live truly. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
26
23. YUL Heritage-Pt. 3 — I Rise, We Rise
Éric, Hugues, and Jean-Sébastien discuss the community response to chemsex. Jean-Sébastien critiques treating addiction as a personal failure, advocating for a collective, skilled approach instead. They highlight gaps in healthcare systems not designed for queer lives and the need for non-judgmental spaces where people can truly be heard. Looking ahead, Hugues calls for sustainable solutions that honor community resilience. Jean-Sébastien addresses the ambivalence—fascination mixed with fear—surrounding chemsex, stressing honest dialogue over scare tactics. The episode concludes by emphasizing that true recovery lies in rebuilding bridges and supporting one another. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Ça prend un village (It Takes A Village): 4 testimonials from people who share their personal stories and explain how they came to build their own crystal meth recovery village. FOR guys in recovery, made BY guys in recovery. (In French only) The velvet rage: Overcoming the pain of growing up gay in a straight man's world (2nd ed.). Book by Downs, A. (2012). Lifelong books.
-
25
22. YUL Heritage-Pt. 2 — Party Politics
Éric, Hugues, and Jean-Sébastien explore the evolution of queer spaces—from clandestine origins to modern venues centered on sensuality or sobriety. They discuss a post-COVID shift toward more diverse ways to meet and connect. The group delves into how sex functions as a tool for validation, often using substances to navigate the vulnerability of intimacy. Hugues frames queer joy as political resistance against heteronormativity. They conclude by examining chemsex as a "great equalizer," momentarily stripping away the competitiveness of the gay scene and offering respite from social anxiety. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned The Village: Podcast by CBC Listen (2019-2025). The Village investigates unresolved — and often underreported — cases of missing and murdered individuals in queer communities across Canada and beyond. Unlimited intimacy: Reflections on the subculture of barebacking: Book by Dean, T. (2009). University of Chicago Press. The four reasons we love meth: Article by Fox, L. (2021, June 29). Medium.
-
24
21. YUL Heritage-Pt. 1 — Hey Hugues & Jean-Sébastien
Montreal Host Éric introduces Hugues and Jean-Sébastien to discuss the intersections of queer history, community, sex and substance use. Hugues, a researcher of queer spaces, shares his experience in PnP culture viewed through a lens of strict moderation. Jean-Sébastien, founder of "Ça prend un village," discusses his transition from addiction to recovery advocacy, highlighting the power of real stories to counter fear-based narratives. The group explores the link between HIV diagnosis and chemsex, with Hugues revealing how he once saw crystal meth as a potential "exit strategy." Jean-Sébastien echoes this, describing using drugs to navigate downfall on his own terms. Together, they unpack the history of "poz circles" as a sanctuary for sexuality free from stigma, ultimately finding that community connection. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Ça prend un village (It Takes A Village): 4 testimonials from people who share their personal stories and explain how they came to build their own crystal meth recovery village. FOR guys in recovery, made BY guys in recovery. (In French only) Relation toxique : portraits d’une dépendance (Toxic relationship: portraits of addiction): This podcast delves into the experiences of a dependent person. With testimonials from Mélanie, Jean-Sébastien, and Christian, this podcast dissects the stages of this ecstatic and devastating relationship. (In French only) PLDI : The Positive Leadership Development Institute: Organization that offers people living with HIV an opportunity to identify and develop their leadership and resilience skills in a safe environment by and for PLHIV.
-
23
20. YUL Creativity-Pt. 4 — Body-ody-ody!
Éric, Gabriel, and Mikiki explore the body’s role in addiction and recovery. Éric shares how traditional 12-step programs failed him until he embraced drug use as a somatic experience rather than just a mental one. This shift transformed his creative process, allowing him to write from bodily intuition and move beyond past darkness. The group also discusses sexual intimacy after chemsex, critiquing recovery services that prescribe celibacy without guidance on reclaiming pleasure. They highlight a "somatic training" pilot project where participants explore sensation without performance pressure to re-map physical connection. The episode concludes by advocating for compassion and curiosity over fear-based drug education. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
22
19. YUL Creativity-Pt. 3 — The Trauma Llama
Éric, Gabriel, and Mikiki explore the tension between suffering and pleasure in chemsex, challenging the narrative that addiction stems solely from pain. They reflect on how substance use initially served as an "antidote" to perfectionism and trauma before spiraling into shame and isolation. The group discusses art's role in processing these experiences; Gabriel shares how his "DEAR VICKY" collection mourns his life before HIV while pivoting toward hope. Mikiki emphasizes curiosity over judgment and the value of humor. The episode concludes by urging listeners to embrace creative expression as a vital means of connection and survival. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
21
18. YUL Creativity-Pt. 2 — Hey Mikiki
Montreal host Éric introduces performance artist Mikiki, whose journey from "baby anarchist" to queer health activist informs their provocative work. Mikiki discusses video as an anti-market medium for activism and how complex PTSD led them to prioritize art over traditional employment. They explore Mikiki’s video "Red Flags: A Love Letter," which reframes injection drug use through a neutral or positive lens. The conversation captures the communal reality of chemsex and the underground’s "glamour," framing creative expression as a survival strategy while navigating substance use. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. Browse Mikiki's work: Mikiki's website Mikiki's "Red Flags: A Love Letter" for Visual AIDS Untitled (00.002): Performance documentation on grief and loss 00.002 projection: Multi-channel video component from the performance: Behind-the-scenes of "Red Flags: A Love Letter" work: Instagram Reel
-
20
17. YUL Creativity-Pt. 1 — Hey Gabriel
Montreal host Éric introduces Gabriel, a fashion designer who transforms trauma into cathartic art. They discuss his graduate collection, "SØRRY MØM," which uses a flood metaphor to depict recovery from crystal meth. The designs progress from dark, suffocating silhouettes representing the "deep end" to lighter tones symbolizing the imperfect nature of healing. They also explore "HONEYCUM," which uses bee symbolism to address his HIV diagnosis. Gabriel reflects on the emotional intensity of sharing such vulnerable work on the runway, highlighting how creative expression serves as a vital tool for processing shame and finding purpose amidst struggle. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. Browse Gabriel's Work: Gabriel's Linktree "SØRRY MØM" Collection "DEAR VICKY" Collection
-
19
16. YUL Solidarity-Pt.2 — Montreal PnP Community
Éric and Olivier discuss Montreal's unique party landscape, where "progressive" vibes and 24/7 bathhouses foster an openness to substance use. Éric critiques the city’s fragile support systems, highlighting a reliance on short-term funding rather than a permanent strategy for long-term recovery. Looking ahead, Éric previews upcoming panels on art and advocacy while candidly discussing the difficulty of finding trans and gender-diverse guests. He links this challenge to his own journey, revealing how recovery helped him embrace his non-binary identity after years of using drugs to escape rigid gender standards. The episode concludes with a call to move from fear toward compassion and action. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned REZO: A Montreal-based community organization offering health and wellness services to gay, bisexual, cis, and trans men. CMA (Crystal Meth Anonymous): Mentioned as a traditional 12-step recovery resource. CMA Montreal: Crystal Meth Anonymous Montreal CRDM: Centre de réadaptation en dépendance de Montréal
-
18
15. YUL Solidarity-Pt.1 — Hey Eric
Olivier introduces Éric, a playwright and community advocate prominent in Montreal’s chemsex scene. Éric explains how his play, “Ces regards amoureux de garçons altérés”, captures the raw intensity of a 72-hour sauna session. Writing while active allowed him to portray the experience's complexity—not just the struggle, but the pleasure and the search for connection. Éric also reflects on his decade-long journey to sobriety, viewing chemsex less as a problem and more as a "solution" to underlying issues at the time. He emphasizes that his past forced him to confront his truth, ultimately allowing him to be fully present for others today. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
17
14. YUL Prelude — Why It’s important, Montreal
The inaugural YUL Montreal episode centers on the central question of this podcast series: Why is it important for people with lived experience of PnP/chemsex to tell their own stories in their own words? Principal investigator Olivier Ferlatte poses this to host Éric, who then gathers reflections from guests Hugues, Jean-Sébastien, Mikiki, Gabriel, Michael, and Ally. Together, they illustrate why no single narrative can capture the complexity of chemsex. This conversation explores unfiltered storytelling, the politics of voice, and how representation challenges stigma. As a prelude to the season, it underscores how personal stories foster understanding, connection, and community. If you’re looking for support related to chemsex, please check the list of available resources and services on the page: Chemsex resources/services.
-
16
13. YYZ Integrity-Pt. 3 — From Stigma to G-mance
The group redefines stigma as active oppression that creates borders within the community. They discuss the vital necessity of friendships to combat isolation, highlighting the importance of a non-judgmental "voice of reason." The group also explores the phenomenon of "G-mance," debating whether the intense affection felt while high is authentic or merely a chemical illusion. Ultimately, the episode underscores that despite complex boundaries, genuine care remains at the heart of their shared experience. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
15
12. YYZ Integrity-Pt. 2 — The High Life
The conversation dives deep into the hierarchies and double standards within the party community—specifically the stigma surrounding "slamming" (injecting) versus smoking or snorting. Edwin introduces the concept of the "street nurse" or "admin"—a role he plays to ensure safety and aftercare for others—while the group debates the ethics of intervening when a fellow partier is struggling. They also tackle the internal work required to maintain integrity while using, discussing strategies like taking significant breaks to rediscover hobbies or refusing to keep supplies at home. Ultimately, the episode underscores that while drugs may be part of a history, they do not define a person's humanity. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
14
11. YYZ Integrity-Pt. 1 — Hey Christoph, Edwin, & Tyler
Toronto host Bradley welcomes Christoph, Edwin, and Tyler—who together boast a combined 122 years of lived experience with drugs. They unpack the local lexicon, debating the clinical term "chemsex" versus the community-preferred "party," and discuss the subtle ways ("the look") they recognize other community members. The group reflects on diverse origin stories—from liberating first experiences in the rave scene to using substances as a shield against trauma. The conversation challenges sensationalized narratives, exploring how drug use has served as a tool for profound shifts in perspective, sometimes making them kinder or more self-aware, while acknowledging the inherent risks. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services.
-
13
Bonus. YYZ Wisdom-Pt. 4 — Velvet Mourning
In this bonus leg of the Wisdom flight, the conversation turns to the "velvet mourning" of widowhood. Matthew discusses the tragic loss of his partner to an overdose, while Reid recounts the isolation of grieving a partner of nine years who had never come out to his family—resulting in the erasure of their relationship at the funeral. The discussion explores navigating cumulative grief, from the AIDS crisis to the present, and how they find spiritual grounding. They conclude by reflecting on the necessity of boundaries and why disconnecting from the "using" community was vital for their well-being. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned "George Street": To read the full text of Matthew's poem.
-
12
10. YYZ Wisdom-Pt. 3 — You=You
Matthew and Reid challenge traditional labels, with Matthew rejecting the term "addict" and framing his past use as a closed chapter. Reid explores how the U=U revolution (Undetectable = Untransmittable) reshaped his belonging, moving him beyond the "poz-only" safety of online groups. The conversation candidly examines the difficulty of loving an active user while maintaining one's own stability, the trap of becoming a "provider of shelter," and a humorous, honest redefinition of being "fine." If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned U=U (Undetectable = Untransmittable): The global campaign and scientific consensus that people with HIV on effective treatment cannot pass it on sexually. Prevention Access Campaign (PAC): Global non-profit organization dedicated to saving lives and ending the HIV epidemic by making Undetectable = Untransmittable (U=U) a reality for all people living with HIV.
-
11
09. YYZ Wisdom-Pt. 2 — Being Inside
The discussion shifts to the collision between chemsex and the criminal justice system. Reid recounts a harrowing false accusation of unlawful confinement that led to a terrifying detainment and a "negotiation with the universe" to quit meth. Meanwhile, Matthew shares the stark reality of spending 383 days in prison following an HIV non-disclosure charge. The episode examines the lasting trauma of incarceration, offering a critique of a system that criminalizes mental health and HIV status rather than offering support. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Chemstories.ca: The central hub for the project and resources. HIV Legal Network: Contextually relevant regarding HIV non-disclosure laws (though not explicitly named in the snippet, it's the implied legal framework). Legal Aid Ontario: Implied through the discussion of navigating the court system.
-
10
08. YYZ Wisdom-Pt. 1 — Hey Matthew & Reid
Toronto host Bradley introduces Matthew and Reid, two "experienced flyers" who defy typical labels. Matthew, a grad student researching prisoner poetry, shares his history of living "on the skip"—navigating homelessness while managing undiagnosed mental health struggles. Reid offers a contrasting perspective, discussing his entry into the scene in his late 50s and the distinction between isolated "partying" and connected "chemsex." The conversation explores the systemic failures pushing people into drug use, reframes addiction as a "super soldier" survival mode, and challenges listeners to see the human resilience beneath the stigma. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Chemstories.ca: The central hub for the project and resources. Park Cruising: What Happens When We Wander Off the Path: Book/research on cruising spots and laws in Toronto by Toronto lawyer Marcus McCann. Michel Foucault: Referenced in relation to "necropolitics" and power dynamics. Bosch's "Ship of Fools": A historical/philosophical reference used by Matthew to describe the displacement of marginalized people.
-
9
07. YYZ Insight-Pt. 2 — Queer Kin & Kicks
Toronto host Bradley and Jordan explore the vital "duty of care" within queer communities. Jordan shares how he found brotherhood in the party scene, often stepping in to support friends where state systems fail. They discuss the political dimensions of drug use, the distinction between fitting in and true belonging, and the professional challenge of resisting the "model drug user" trope. This episode reflects the courage to build kinship and define family on one's own terms. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Chemstories.ca: The central hub for the project and resources. The Velvet Rage: Book by Alan Downs, contextually referenced regarding shame and validation.
-
8
06: YYZ Insight-Pt. 1 — Hey Jordan
Toronto host Bradley introduces Jordan to redefine chemsex not just as substance use, but as a distinct culture. They decode the community's shared language—like "Capital T" and "Mild 2 Wild"—and challenge the narrative that "sober sex" is inherently more authentic. Jordan shares his personal history of using substances to navigate social anxiety, offering a nuanced perspective on harm reduction that prioritizes research and trusted connections over abstinence. This episode invites listeners to look beyond stigma to understand the community’s multilayeredness. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Chemstories.ca: The central hub for the project and resources. The Velvet Rage: Book by Alan Downs, exploring the psychology of growing up gay in a straight world.
-
7
05. YYZ Balance-Pt. 2 — Doggie Style
Toronto host Bradley resumes his conversation with Brian. The discussion centers on the grounding power of pets, revealing how Brian’s dog remained a vital link to humanity and a "non-negotiable boundary" during active use. Brian opens up about his personal approach to harm reduction—"divorcing Tina" while navigating other choices—and the necessity of radical honesty. The episode underscores the resilience required to "grow a new identity" and the life-saving impact of non-judgmental support. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Chemstories.ca: The central hub for the project and resources. HQ (Toronto): Health centre mentioned for their "Method" program and supportive staff. CAMH (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health): Where a neighbor checked in after Brian’s honest conversation.
-
6
04. YYZ Balance-Pt. 1 — Hey Brian
Toronto host Bradley introduces Brian, who is celebrating his one-year anniversary of sobriety from crystal meth. Their conversation explores the complex intersection of sex and addiction, the challenges of seeking help, and the vital role of community in recovery. Brian shares personal insights on finding balance and the importance of peer support. This episode offers a candid look at the resilience required to navigate life after PnP/chemsex. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Chemstories.ca: The central hub for the project and resources. CMA (Crystal Meth Anonymous): 12-step fellowship for recovery from crystal meth. HQ (Toronto): Health and community centre for cis guys and trans folks into guys (Mentioned for their "Method" program). Casey House: Specialty hospital in Toronto providing care for people living with HIV/AIDS. GMCN: Gay Men's Coffee Night & Brunch in Toronto.
-
5
03. YYZ Sagacity-Pt. 2 — Party People
Investigator Olivier and Bradley explore the specific nuances of Toronto’s party community. They discuss the city's unique activism, the politics of harm reduction, and the definition of community itself as the ultimate resource. Bradley reflects on the courage required to share personal stories in a stigmatized world, emphasizing how authentic narratives foster empathy and challenge the dominant "war on drugs" mindset. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Chemstories.ca: The central hub for the project and resources. Université de Montréal (School of Public Health): The academic home of the research project led by Olivier Ferlatte.
-
4
02. YYZ Sagacity-Pt. 1 — Hey Bradley
Investigator Olivier introduces Toronto host Bradley to unpack the complexities surrounding PnP/chemsex. Moving beyond medical or criminal definitions, they discuss the necessity of centering lived experience to challenge deep-seated stigmas. Bradley shares his personal journey and graduate research on "slam sex," reframing it as a site of community care rather than just risk. Together, they challenge the misconception that "chemsex is a stupid thing done by stupid people," exploring how storytelling can dismantle judgment and foster a nuanced understanding of connection. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Toni Morrison: Cited by Bradley as an inspiration ("If you don't see yourself in what you're reading, write your own story"). Michel Foucault: Philosophically referenced regarding power and control.
-
3
01. YYZ Prelude — Why It's Important, Toronto
In this prelude to the Toronto series, Principal Investigator Olivier Ferlatte introduces Toronto host Bradley and a diverse group of guests—Brian, Jordan, Matthew, Reid, Christoph, Edwin, and Tyler. Together, they explore the central question of this podcast series: Why is it important for people with lived experience of PnP/chemsex to tell their own stories in their own words? The conversation highlights the power of unfiltered narratives to break down stigma, build community, and foster authentic connection, setting the stage for the deep dives to come. If you’re looking for support, please explore our list of Chemsex resources/services. 🔗 Other Resources Mentioned Chemstories.ca: The central hub for the project and resources. Université de Montréal (School of Public Health): The academic home of the research project led by Olivier Ferlatte.
No matches for "" in this podcast's transcripts.
No topics indexed yet for this podcast.
Loading reviews...
ABOUT THIS SHOW
Chemstories is a podcast series created by gay, bisexual, queer men, as well as trans and non-binary people who wish to share their experiences related to chemsex*.For Chemstories, we worked for over a year with our editorial board made up of individuals with firsthand experience of chemsex. Three members even became hosts for group discussions in their respective cities—Toronto, Montreal, and Halifax—whom you will meet in the upcoming episodes. From the very beginning, it was essential that this podcast be truly by and for the community.But Chemstories is more than a podcast — it’s the result of a collaborative investigation into the lived realities of chemsex. Together, we set out to explore one central question: "Why is it important for people with lived experience of PnP/chemsex to tell their stories in their own words?"This question came directly from our editorial board. They saw it as
HOSTED BY
Qollab
Loading similar podcasts...