Five Rules for the Good Life Podcast

Shaheen Ghazali, the chef and owner of Kurrypinch, joins Five Rules for the Good Life to share his Five Rules for Getting to Know South Asian Cuisine. Born in Pakistan, raised in Sri Lanka, and shaped by years traveling the world as a marine cadet with his father, Shaheen approaches food through the lens of curiosity, evolution, and connection. This conversation goes far beyond the idea of “authenticity” and digs into how cuisines borrow, adapt, and grow over generations. From why spice doesn’t always mean heat to how curry is often misunderstood in the West, Shaheen breaks down the common language that exists across cultures and why understanding food means looking deeper than labels.What I love most about Shaheen’s approach is that he talks about food the way some people talk about music, art, or family history. There’s a calm confidence in the way he explains flavor, balance, and tradition without turning any of it into dogma. He understands that food is alive. It changes with migration, memory, trade, and circumstance. Sitting with him, you realize he’s less interested in defending a cuisine than inviting people into it. The best meals do that. They lower your guard, tell you a story, and make the unfamiliar feel personal. Shaheen cooks and speaks from that exact place.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.IntroductionHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today I’m joined by Shaheen Ghazaly, the chef and owner of Kurrypinch, a Sri Lankan restaurant here in Los Angeles. He shares his five rules for getting to know South Asian cuisine.It’s about the fundamental understanding that food and cuisine is always evolving, that spice doesn’t always mean spicy, and that balance is the key ingredient to any successful meal. It is an incredibly philosophical conversation about cooking and global cuisine, and how anyone out there who wants to know more about what they’re eating should dive a little deeper.So let’s get into the rules.Shaheen, so nice to meet you.Thank you for stepping away from the very busy Curry Pint to sit down and chat with me for the show.Thank you for having me.You were born in Pakistan, raised in Sri Lanka, and spent a large part of your early life traveling with your father. How did that shape your outlook on food?Since I was a kid, my mom is a Pakistani, my dad is a Sri Lankan. When my mom passed away, we moved to Sri Lanka. My dad was taken care of, and since he was traveling, he taught us how to take care of ourselves by having limited ingredients at home to make food.Breakfast, whatever it’s available.That made me be creative and come up with my own way of food.Since I was 10 years old, I fell in love with food, not only by looking at my aunt cook, I just fell in love with it.We were not raised like most Sri Lankans. They go with the spices like heat, but we grew up having flavored and not too much heat going on.That deep love of food, is that what brought you to the United States to open a restaurant?No, the cooking was a hobby. I always enjoyed it. After I finished my college and everything, I started traveling with my dad. He was a captain in a ship. I joined the ship with him as a Marine Cadet officer and then I traveled the world.When we were growing up, we were limited to certain things or knowledge. For example, fish cutlets, that’s a Sri Lankan dish. But when I started traveling, then I learned it’s just a term that we use when it comes to the technique, the method. The ingredients are all very, very similar.This made me dig deep into culture and food.When I said traveling, I have been to many countries. Whenever we touched down at a port, my first thing would be to go and try many different cuisines. Their traditional food.So I wanted to bring, because Sri Lankan food is not that popular in LA, I just wanted to introduce our cuisine in a term people would understand.At the end of the day, the ingredients and the technique remained true to our culture, our background, and things like that.Was there a moment when you realized that enough people in LA, or the people who kept coming back to the restaurant, really understood what you were cooking and learned about the Sri Lankan food and the South Asian food you were serving?Not all of them.Sure.I have had so many times, “Oh, this is not authentic.”I’m like, there’s no such thing as authentic.Sure.Because in Sri Lanka, there are many regions, many parts, many cultures. We may use the same spices in a different manner.For instance, we have a dish called Jaffna prawn curry. The reason we call it Jaffna, it’s a part of Sri Lanka, and they are more influenced by South Indian food. Most of the food that we have or currently use is influenced by South Indian food.We try our level best with all the new guests who come to our restaurant to give them a brief background about certain food because the terms of curry or curry, they’re scared because I don’t know what they have in their mind, but when you mention curry they just go bongas.Being such a lifelong devotee to food and admirer of cuisine culture, and having restaurants of your own, I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for getting to know South Asian cuisine.1) Know that food is always evolving.There’s been a large movement in the United States specifically about third culture cuisine.When people call food authentic, they’re usually talking about just one point of a cuisine’s long story.People have traded spices, ingredients, and cooking ideas across the continent.When people visit our restaurants, especially South Asians, they might say this is not authentic Sri Lankan or Indian food, but every culture, city, and region has its own.Having these recipes evolve means that certain words that people might be afraid of, those definitions change as well.2) Spice doesn’t always mean spicy.And one of the key elements, the heat of a dish and how that’s evolved, makes up your rule number two.Spices are used for aroma, depth, and balance, not just for the heat.My way of cooking, or what I have learned...Agreeing on these terms or agreeing on these...3) Not every curry is a sauce.The approach to what goes into a dish or what even makes up a dish is something that you need to find a common language on, especially when you’re running a restaurant and explaining how that might differ in what you’re serving.Not everyone is going to align with what you say, especially as you strike out to define your own take on the cuisine, which is a fundamental of your rule number three.All the curries, they aren’t sauces.The word curry describes many, many different dishes.Some curries are rich and saucy, while others are dry, stir-fried, or just lightly spiced.Curry is really a blend of spices shaped by each culture.4) Cuisines often share the same ideas.Once you get into these cuisines, as you saw in your travel across the world, a lot of the time what makes up a dish from culture to culture has more in common than differences, which makes up your rule number four.During my travel, people in different cultures often cook with the same idea using the local ingredient.For example, biryanis, spice, cheese, and a dish like jambalaya is similar.Flatbread, like roti, is similar to tortilla.The similarities show that food brings culture together more than it separates them.One ingredient used in a different form.At the end of the day, it’s just one word. The idea, the concept, everything is the same, and the way of making is maybe a little bit different.If you use those ingredients and spices and everything, the end result would be pretty much the same flavorful.5) Balance is what makes a meal.That end result can be generalized by people who don’t understand a specific cuisine, but your fifth and final rule talks about this idea of bringing harmony to any dish to fit the right situation.What’s your rule number five?The balance is...A great dish relies on a few key elements working together in balance.I would say flavor balance, texture, aroma, freshness and ingredients, techniques, harmony, the story behind the dish.All these come together.People do get scared of it.I would say, don’t be.You try many things in your life. Just try different cuisine.The one thing that we follow at Curry Pinch is that we cook our meal as we cook for our loved ones.I love that.We don’t provide unhealthy food or give it to our family members. That’s the same concept I have when it comes to our guests.Good for you, good for your health.Thank you so much for sharing your Five Rules.If people want to come by Curry Pinch or see some of the food you’re cooking, where can they go?Walk-ins are always welcome.They can visit our website at www.kurrypinch.com.They can reserve through Resy. We would recommend doing a reservation. There are times we are fully booked.And yeah, for everyone listening, that’s Curry with a K.Shaheen, thank you so much. Congrats on everything and looking forward to swinging in very soon for a bite.Thank you very much.You’re always welcome. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Julianne Fraser, founder and CEO of Dialogue New York, to talk about what it actually takes to protect your creativity in a world that’s trying to flatten it. We get into the tension between algorithms and originality, why setting boundaries with social media isn’t optional anymore, and how carving out real time for yourself can unlock better ideas than any scroll ever will. Julianne shares her Five Rules for Cultivating Creativity, from building guardrails around your digital life to creating space for “creative mornings” to trusting your own taste instead of chasing trends. It’s a conversation about getting back to yourself, doing the work offline, and making sure your ideas still feel like yours.What I appreciate most about this conversation is how practical it is. There’s no fantasy version of creativity here. It’s about being intentional with your time, attention, and input. It’s about knowing when to step away, when to go outside, when to talk to people, and when to sit alone with a notebook to actually think. That balance is hard to find, especially when everything online is designed to pull you back in, but it’s the difference between reacting to the world and shaping your own point of view. Once you start to feel that shift, even in small ways, it changes how you show up in your work and in your life.My latest profile for Fine Dining Lovers is on Chef Brad Alan Mathews, the chef and co-owner of Bar Le Cotê in Los Olivos, CA. He shares his lifelong love of food and music, and his journey to sobriety. Thank you to Paul Feinstein for his guidance and support with this piece. For anyone in the industry struggling with substances or looking for options for a different approach to a work/life balance, Ben’s Friends is a good place to start. INTRODUCTIONHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with Julianne Fraser, the founder and CEO of Dialogue New York, a digital media agency. She shares her Five Rules for Cultivating Creativity.She talks about the irony of her process in setting social media guardrails, carving out time in anyone’s busy schedule for creative mornings, and that by following feelings and not trends will lead you to your best ideas. It’s a great conversation for anyone who’s looking to add more creativity into their life and to ground themselves with daily practices of making space to allow for new ideas. So let’s get into the rules.OPENING CONVERSATIONJulianne, it is so nice to meet you. So great to see someone coming all the way to Brooklyn. I miss my hometown. Welcome to the show.Thank you for having me. Excited to chat. I’m a child of the 80s and 90s. I still remember the DIY punk era of the hard line between creativity and brands. Today’s generation seems not to care about that. Why has creativity come to be such a commodity? Why do you think that shift happened?I think it’s been a slow erosion of creativity over time. I’ve been in my career for 15 years in the digital space. Little by little, the way that social media has grown and the power of the algorithm has just kind of shrunk original creativity over time. This year, in the last five years with AI, it’s compounding a really frightening degree. It’s just the nature of technology and innovation.What’s interesting is as we’re seeing it shrivel away in many facets of social media, I think people are really championing it. Such desire to get back to nostalgic, old ways of analog. I’m hoping for like a renaissance. I’m hopeful that people will go back to kind of old-fashioned ways of sparking their creativity.IAN SCHRAGER & HOSPITALITY INSPIRATIONLooking backwards at people who might be inspirations for that spark, you worked with Ian Schrager, someone who turned the idea of going to a hotel into a story and experience. What did you take away from your time with him?That was my most inspiring brand I’ve ever worked with in my career. What he did with the hospitality industry in the 80s, first with Morgan’s Hotel Group, really just kind of revolutionized the notion of a lobby as a space of socialization and inspiration.Not only did he flip the way that people interacted with hotels, every single minute detail of his hotels brought to life this spirit. He has these guardian angels in the hallways at Hudson Hotel that look over his guests, or every single pen on every single property was black. Just like really old school rules of brand identity that led to these experiences that you cannot replicate, and so many hotel brands try.From a marketer, I joined really early on in my career. It was just unbelievable gold to work with, to be able to leverage all of that storytelling.BUILDING DIALOGUEStorytelling and learning how to work with brands and to present them to people led you to being the founder of Dialogue, your digital brand marketing consulting agency. What unique offering did you want to bring to the marketplace that you weren’t seeing or that you felt there was a space to make a new name for yourself?When I started my company, I had this core belief of what it takes to build community and a network of creative people. The word influencer can have so many different facets. The way we approach it can be a viral TikTok sensation, but also someone who has 10,000.What I found really interesting is that our strategy and our approach has never shifted from day one. I think that’s the fundamentals of building relationships and human connection at scale, but never impacting the real human connection with these partners and also the creative campaigns that we’re concepting.What I find most exciting this year specifically of what I’m working on with Dialogue is just how to strike that balance between being able to touch with more brands while still doing the most authentic, real relationship building, really creative narrative driving, and never sacrificing that.Preaching to the choir. I absolutely love it. And I love that approach. The fact that you’re offering a take that both understands that we are dealing with the absolute shift in the way that we are creating, but also staying true to the core tenant, which is storytelling, which is why I’m so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for cultivating creativity.RULE #1: ESTABLISH SOCIAL MEDIA GUARDRAILSAnd in a world where we are in this post slop never ending stream of content, it’s easy for your brain to just go absolutely on the fritz while you doom scroll. Your first rule talks about the importance of setting up some boundaries when you go hunting for inspiration across different social channels. What’s your rule number one?It’s not lost to me the irony that I own a digital marketing agency and my first rule is establish social media guardrails. I love it. I bring this to my team. I believe in this wholeheartedly.Social media is beautiful and inspiring and incredible. And I even think from my personal creative, when I’m really into interior design or cooking, I’m finding the most incredible artisans in Rotterdam to build custom shelves that I never would have discovered if not through Pinterest or Instagram or whatnot. There are these really beautiful platforms to find inspiration, but if you’re not conscious in how you’re engaging with them, it just completely numbs your brains.I have two young daughters. When I get home, I put my phone in this container. I have to be so physical to put it behind two physical doors. I’m so intentional because if that doesn’t happen, these devices are designed for addictions. At night, I’m putting my phone on airplane mode at nine o’clock. I’m plugging it in outside of my bedroom so I’m not shifting to that. I’ve found over the years I have to be really strict.So creating whatever those guardrails are that best suit you, that’s rule number one in my mind. Once you create those guardrails and you get off your phone, you’ll start to realize that you have an extra 15, 30, 40 minutes of the day that you thought you were so busy that you cut things out like leaving your desk or, as someone like me, leaving your home.RULE #2: FOSTER YOUR “WEAK TIES”Your second rule talks about the importance of reestablishing those routines that get you out into the world. What’s your rule number two?As convenience has, and you know this as a New Yorker, you literally can get anything at any time in the city. Uber Eats, you no longer are going to pick up your Indian takeout down the street. We’re skipping past the cashier at Whole Foods and we’re going straight to the checkout computers. We’re texting friends instead of calling and speaking to them.And so I think the more and more and more convenience is prioritized, we’re cutting out this notion of weak ties. Weak ties aren’t friends. They’re not coworkers. They’re not even acquaintances. They’re just people that you’ll bump into in a day, like the barista at your cafe or like the front desk at your gym, whatever it might be.And it’s really the fabric of a lot of our creativity and inspiration and speaking to people. And I really try to slow down and chit chat with the woman who drops off our mail. She’s wonderful, and it’s those little mini interactions that are really getting us outside of our bubble and off our phones and sparking things that we might not think of or know.RULE #3: CREATE SPACE WITH CREATIVE MORNINGSSetting up your day for success is such an important part of really getting things done. Creating the space to actually create is a core tenet of rule number three.I’ve instilled what I call creative mornings for my team of 10. I love it. We’ve done this for five, six years. And I really, really believe in the power of it, not only for my team’s creative output, but from all of our personal satisfaction.It’s a full morning out of the month where all of us take three hours on a Tuesday morning. They can do whatever will inspire them creatively as long as they’re off their phones and their computers. They can go to a morning matinee movie, they can browse shops in West Village. That is the point.Because I’ve found the most creative impactful business decisions have come out of those mornings by myself with a piece of paper just working through something I’ve been blocked on that I haven’t had the mental space to actually think about.More emphasis on the importance of all of my team fostering our offline influence, our offline lifestyles, creating that work-life balance so that we have the space to be doing creative work. Because if not, everything will become the exact same in the digital marketing world. How we differentiate ourselves is through our creative minds and our personal experiences offline.Those experiences offline cannot be underestimated from the importance of fueling your own creativity.RULE #4: CURATE YOUR CULTURAL PALETTEI many times have tried to go outside the things that I know that I like and then feel that I’ve wasted time in hunting for new inspiration. But I know that I still need to look for new things that are going to inspire me.Your fourth rule talks about how understanding what you like and what’s on your radar is a good way to find something new to inspire you.It’s about curating your cultural palette. And I read this in Rick Rubin’s book a couple years ago. Everybody’s palette is going to be different. We don’t all need to be doing the same.And I think that also is such a trap in social media where people are showcasing how they’re getting inspired and just someone copies another influencer’s exact date. I think it has to be so personalized to find what it is that makes your heart sing.I’m obsessed with cooking and food. It just makes me so happy. Making sure that I’m carving out time offline where I’m testing recipes or I’m going to a market or I’m going to a new restaurant. The more that I’m expanding that cultural palette of mine, not only from a business perspective, it makes me tenfold a better consultant to a food brand, to a fashion brand. All of that taste and experience funnels into our work.But also just from a personal satisfaction standpoint, I really can feel these moments where I’m in my creative flow and I’m learning. I really find moments where I’m learning still. There’s curiosity behind creativity. We have to continue to learn and discover new things as part of this.RULE #5: FOLLOW FEELINGS, NOT TRENDSDiscovering those new things and knowing what to follow, your fifth and final rule talks about, for lack of a better word, your gut, refining that and knowing when to listen to it when something piques your interest. What’s your rule number five?It’s following your feelings and not trends. The power of these algorithms, it’s becoming so homogenous, it’s starting to freak me out. Everyone’s hair and makeup looks the same. Everyone’s plating their food the same way. Everyone is dressing like Carolyn Bessette because of Love Story the TV show and backward hats and polos for all the boys.Everyone’s homes are identical with boucle. I love all those styles, of course. The trends are amplified tenfold because of social media. And so I’m really trying to spark ways to follow what makes my heart sing rather than what I’m seeing.When I was designing my daughter’s room, I made a conscious effort to 100% pull inspiration from analog sources. So I purposely did not be on social media. It’s led to this really funky, weird universe of fuchsia pink and cherry red that is so unique that I’ve never seen anywhere. And I’m so excited for her to live in that universe of inspiration and creativity.But I never would have thought of that because if you go in Pinterest and you do Arch Digest, Child’s Nursery, you’re going to get a standard rulebook to follow and it’ll be beautiful, but it won’t make your heart sing. So I really look for those moments and carve out ways to really feel the feelings of creativity beyond just the trend.CLOSINGI deeply appreciate you sharing those feelings and the approach. If people want to see what you’re up to or what Dialogue is up to, where can they go, how can they follow along?Best to follow along Julianne Fraser on Instagram, Dialogue NYC on Instagram as well. We’re going to be going through a full brand universe refresh. Those would be the best spots, I’d say.Congratulations on everything. I look forward to seeing what comes next, and hopefully next time I’m back in Brooklyn, we can grab a coffee.I would love that. Thank you. This is so fun. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I head to the Hudson Valley to hang out with food writer, photographer, gardener, forager, and fermenter Peter Barrett. He shares his Five Rules for Nurturing a Real Cooking Practice. We talk about why growing even one herb on a windowsill can change the way you think about food, why practice matters more than perfection, how to stop hiding behind cookbooks, and why taking a food Sabbath can make the rest of your week easier. It’s a conversation about cooking with intention, but also about building a life that feels more connected, more grounded, and a little less performative.The best cooking habits are the ones that fit your actual life, not the fantasy version of it. Not everyone is going to mill flour, tend a massive garden, or spend Sunday making twelve jars of pickles, and that’s fine. Sometimes the win is roasting one chicken, growing basil in a pot, or learning three meals you can make without thinking. The point is not to turn your kitchen into a stage set for Instagram, it’s to create a rhythm that supports you. Cooking should lower the temperature of your life, not raise it. It should make your week easier, your table fuller, and your relationship to food more personal. The goal is not perfection. It’s finding a way of feeding yourself that feels sustainable, satisfying, and yours.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.IntroductionHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I head up to the Hudson Valley to sit down with food writer, photographer, gardener, forager, and fermenter, Peter Barrett, who’s here to share his 5 Rules for Nurturing a Real Cooking Practice.He talks about how growing just one thing can change your perspective on life, that there is no excuse for giving up on yourself in the kitchen without loads of practice, and that being gentle on yourself when it comes to cooking is a real recipe for success.This is a great interview for anyone who’s looking to get started in the kitchen or for anyone who’s hit a lull and looking to find some new inspiration.So let’s get into the rules.Peter’s JourneyPeter, so good to see you.I can’t believe it’s already been a few months. Thanks for making time for the show.That’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me.You’ve spent decades growing and foraging and preserving, cooking as much of your own food as possible. What drives you to do this?I was in the artwork. I moved up to the Hudson Valley from Brooklyn 20 years ago now. I put in a garden. It was one of the first things I did.My grandfather had taught me to make pickles when I was a little kid because he was from Poland. And when he grew up, that was a survival strategy. That had nothing to do with hipsters or yuppies or anything. It was staying alive through a long, hard winter.I just got more and more into the growing and the cooking and the fermenting. And I started to learn about mushrooms and other wild edible things.I started writing a blog just as a sort of journal to keep track of my kitchen exploits. And then over the course of the ensuing years, I just did more and more of that.I got one magazine gig, then another magazine gig. I’m working on a book with Dominique Crenn right now. We’re supposed to go to France next month.So it just sort of morphed. As the art tapered off, the food thing sort of rose to meet it.Cooking Across CountriesYou’ve cooked a lot in America, in the Hudson Valley, and you’ve been able to travel to Italy and go into France with Dominique Crenn.Country to country, do you find a difference in this type of approach of growing and preserving and really understanding the food that you eat?It’s simplistic, but I think places that have winter have different fermentation cultures than places that don’t.You can’t f**k around with the absence of food when the ground is frozen, of course.If you think about Korea and Northern Europe, Eastern Europe, the pickle game is strong, and the pickle game is strong because they had to.There’s what they call sottoglio in Italian, which is where they preserve things under oil, or sottaccetto, which is in jars of vinegar.You wander around in most parts of Italy, south of Alto Adige, and everyone has a garden that’s more or less year-round.It’s a different approach to preservation. It’s less mandatory and baked into the cuisine, if that makes any sense.Why Sharing MattersOne of the things I’ve loved about your writing and your storytelling is that you really want to share this knowledge with people across the world and people who want to get into this type of practice themselves.Why is that so important to you to share this knowledge and to teach people that they can get started, even if it seems daunting at first?Honestly, because I’m sitting here right now talking to you on the basis of my self-guided passion.I am driven to learn about food because I love it, because it fascinates me, whether it’s wild food, domestic food, different processes, transforming it with microbes or other preservation methods.My kitchen has now taken the place of my studio. It feels the way my studio used to when I was a painter. It’s just incredibly exciting to me. It’s fun.Food intersects with every other area of human endeavor. What’s your specialty? What’s your aptitude? What’s your passion? Food intersects with it.And so there’s always a way to reach people by relating via food.And I, because I’m a self-taught home cook, I can meet people where they are because I don’t speak. I mean, I speak tweezer, but I do not use tweezer, if you know what I’m saying.Rule One: Grow SomethingThat democratic approach, that self-starting nature of learning to cook, the fact that you didn’t go to culinary school is so common among so many people who love food today, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for nurturing a real cooking practice.It’s easy to look at Instagram and see these gorgeous gardens and these well manicured plots, and it can be daunting to even get started.And your first rule talks about the idea of just making something happen with your own hands. What’s your rule number one?Rule number one is grow something.I have a ridiculously big garden. But if you go to the very far other end of the spectrum, you have a sunny windowsill. Grow a pot of chives, grow one thing.Parsley doesn’t need a whole lot of light. If you’ve got a little more space, grow a few pots, even just herbs.If you have a fire escape, you could even upgrade to a little pot of hot peppers or cherry tomatoes, which do well in containers.Nurturing another living thing, even if you don’t have kids, even if you don’t have pets, nurturing a living thing is good for you.I use my lawn the same way. I don’t spray anything because it’s insanity to spray poison on your lawn.Dandelions are one of my favorite examples of wild food that everybody understands, everybody recognizes it, and they’re really f*****g good to eat and good for you.A lot of what I come to share about food is that all these win-win scenarios involving simplicity, frugality, ancient technologies for preservation that also add nutritional value, and they connect you to your food.Connecting you to your food is a way to further your own human connection.So if you can start from nothing to something, grow one more thing than you currently are growing.Rule Two: PracticeGetting started is definitely a big first step. Growing the one thing, making bread once, trying out your pickle recipe once is a great way to get involved with your own kitchen and your own life and live with more intent.The problem is that if you fail once or even twice or even five times, there is that desire to give up.Your rule number two talks about the importance about keeping at it.Practice.There’s a reason why doctors and lawyers and yogis, it’s the word practice to describe what they do.Definitionally, it means there’s no destination. It’s only journey.It’s a really important perspective to have when you come to cooking.You can learn a lot in your 70, 80 years as a home cook.There’s a lot to be said for the kind of discipline that puts you in the kitchen every day that you can physically get in there.And there are lots of ways you can make really good food for yourself.Making a commitment to honor yourself and the people whose health and wellbeing you’re at least partially responsible for by showing up in your own kitchen and doing what it takes to supply your kitchen with the ingredients that you need to make healthy, wholesome food.Rule Three: Ween Yourself off CookbooksThe idea of creating this safe space in your kitchen is a really good practice.And my kitchen’s full of cookbooks, which I love to go to and to read and gather for inspiration.Same.But at some point I go, all right, I got to get my nose out of this. I got to cook. I got to make these recipes work for me, which is a big part of your rule number three.Wean yourself off of cookbooks.I think of cookbooks as somewhere between training wheels and sheet music.There’s a lot of knowledge that is assumed in your average cookbook.I think that as a home cook, finding ways to give yourself that knowledge by first and foremost, giving yourself the permission to fail is really the only way to do it.And that goes back to the practice thing, right?If you show up every day, yeah, baking bread is not always easy.When I teach baking, I tell people, if you can commit to baking 10 times in the next two months, you are then forgiven for giving up on it.But you gotta do it 10 times in the next two months.Try to get it into your muscles. Try to get it into your life.Understand the rhythms, in my case, usually sourdough, and how you can factor that in given job and school and other stuff you have to do.You can let it hang out in the fridge for long periods. So it’s very forgiving.Then if you still don’t like it or you can’t make it work, you have my permission to give up.But you can’t just do it once and f**k it up and say, I’m not a baker.Recipes are great. Use a recipe the first time, then try and do it using the force the next time.Or try to substitute something the next time.Understanding that this is going to behave in a similar way because it’s related to that. It has similar properties.Then you’re cooking the way these mythical grandmas that everyone likes to invoke are cooking.Rule Four: Observe a Food Sabbath I found that once I’ve gone on a long stretch of cooking, especially if I’m doing something big for the holidays, I need a break because I get tired or I’ll get lazy and I’ll make a mistake or I’ll do shortcuts.And taking that break and giving yourself the permission to not have to cook everything is a fundamental value of rule number four.You have to be gentle with yourself.We all have to be gentle with ourselves and each other.Take a break, order something. It’s totally fine.My fourth rule, rather, is observe a food Sabbath.That can mean taking a break from cooking, but in my case, honestly, I refer to it as a day where you turn off media and you spend a day or half a day in your kitchen front-loading the labor for a week’s worth of healthy home cooking.Let’s say you roast a chicken. Let’s say you cook a pot of beans. Let’s say you bake a loaf or two of bread.Maybe you make a jar of something pickled that’s local and fresh at the time.And then fill in the blanks, a couple other things maybe. Just simple, make a jar of jam if it’s that season or whatever.And by the end of even just a few hours, this sounds daunting, but these things don’t take a lot of work and a lot of them happen to you concurrently.By the end of that period, you’ve connected with the ingredient.And so you have all this beautiful custom control at a nuanced level.Rule Five: No F*****g AII love this idea of putting down technology and just getting in the kitchen.Your fifth and final rule talks about ignoring this other rising technological advancement. What’s your rule number five?Rule number five is no f*****g AI.Every day we learn more about how horrendous it is for every living thing.I’m not disputing that maybe it helped you do your taxes this year. You know, fine. Sure. Zygazunt, I don’t give a s**t about that.What I’m talking about is the fact that we know that this tool is using water and electricity that human beings need to live. And it is sucking it up at increasingly voracious and unsustainable rates.We know that relying on it makes us dumber. It causes cognitive impairment.Robots don’t understand food, understand anything about humanity, even though they’ve gotten really good at sounding like they’re conscious and they’re talking to you, they’re not.They’re probability models. They only know what words are most likely to follow the word before it.It’s not a brain. It’s not an entity, it’s an algorithm.It doesn’t like you, it doesn’t care about you, it is not conscious, and it’s trying to kill us all.So keep it the f**k out of your kitchen.ClosingI’m gonna leave us on that passionate note.Peter, it is so good to see you and to hear from you.If people want to follow your writings, your adventures, get some intentional cooking tips from you, where can they go?Things on Bread is one of the two newsletters. Flavor Freaks is the other one. And I am cookblog on Instagram.Incredible.Well, thank you, Peter. Appreciate you making the time.Definitely going to be doing some front-loading cooking in the next few weeks so I can have a much easier and more relaxing time in the kitchen during the week.I like it.And Darin, thank you so much. I like your show and I’m thrilled to be part of it. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Harry Posner and Natalie Dial of Tomat, a restaurant that doesn’t just talk about seasonality, it lives it. We get into what it actually takes to grow your own ingredients while running a restaurant, from the early mistakes to the unexpected wins. They break down their Five Rules for Having Your Own Restaurant Garden, including why experimentation matters more than perfection, how to think realistically about what you can grow, and what it means to truly close the loop on waste. It’s practical, a little obsessive, and exactly the kind of conversation that makes you rethink where your food comes from.There’s something deeply grounding about growing even a small piece of what you eat. It shifts your understanding of time, effort, and value in a way no delivery app ever will. You don’t need a full backyard or a restaurant budget to start. A simple planter box with herbs on a windowsill or balcony is enough. Basil, thyme, parsley, things you actually use. You water it, you cut from it, you watch it come back. That loop, small as it is, changes how you cook and how you think about food. It makes dinner feel earned in the best way.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.IntroductionHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with Harry Posner and Natalie Dial, the chef and CEO, respectively, of LA’s Tomat. Located in the Westchester part of the city, Tomat has the distinct pleasure of being here on the LA Times 101 Best Restaurant List and was named one of Esquire’s Best New Restaurants in America.They share their five rules for having your own restaurant garden and talk about the importance of experimenting with the produce you plant, understanding the ratio to reality of what you can grow and consume in the restaurant, and give you the perfect timing to plan for each growing and eating season.It’s a fantastic conversation for anyone who’s fantasized about having their own garden, either at a restaurant or at home, and the desire to grow what you eat. So let’s get into the rules.Meeting the GuestsHarry, Natalie, it is so nice to meet you. Thank you for making the time before your impending bundle of joy comes to join us in the world.We’re so glad to be here. Thanks for having us. Thank you very much.The Origin of TomatIt’s easy to say that most chefs or restaurateurs, especially in California, are driven by farm fresh ingredients from the market. You literally named your restaurant with a nod to one of California’s most famous pieces of produce. Why go all in on this concept.It wasn’t even really inspired by the piece of produce itself, other than Harry and I both have that nickname, had it growing up serendipitously, independently of each other, because we turned red in the sun and looked like tomats or tomatoes. However, the official, the initial line before we were like, actually, the fun reason is a way better explanation, was that we are going to grow our own stuff.We’re in California. We’re using as much local farmer’s market produce as possible. And our logo is a slice of tomato with a stem, the seeds. And we’re trying to show you we’re growing, we’re getting the best stuff. That’s why we’re Tamar.Why Grow Your Own IngredientsThe dedication to the bit is something that we are very big on here at Five Rules. You guys are also very dedicated to growing your own produce, vegetables. Why is it so important to you to go that early and deep into the process of the ingredients you bring into the restaurant.We work with some of the most amazing farmers, and there are some absolutely amazing people here that really work alongside us, especially when curating a menu.My upbringing, being born in LA, then moving to England, my parents wanted to grow all of their own vegetables. I remember as a kid, we would go around and pick all the loquats and we had a loquat tree where we used to live. And it’s just so much fun. Now that we’ve got kids, you want to indoctrinate them in growing to show you what produce you have and how good it can be.The Value of Growing Even One ThingRestaurateurs these days are faced with so many challenges. Some might not even be able to make it to the farmer’s market while they’re spinning all these different plates in the air. The idea of starting and making your own garden can seem even more daunting than just running a regular restaurant. Why do you think it’s important to grow at least one thing so it can supply at least one thing to a restaurant.It shows you how much effort goes into producing that one thing. I love that.In the grand scheme of things, we have a tiny little plot. You think, okay, how can I get the most benefit. If I have a three feet by three feet plot, okay, I’ll just have things that grow upwards. I’m not going to plant one carrot, but maybe if I plant a bushel of parsley or thyme, that’ll be more than I’ll ever need.So you just think how much effort goes into it and why the prices of certain things are so much at the farmer’s market, and why being in California, we have access to some of the best produce in the world.Rule #1: ExperimentationI love how dedicated you are to this practice of growing your own ingredients, but then also encouraging others to do the same, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for having your own restaurant garden.You touched on it a little bit earlier. Having access to LA’s farmer’s markets will give you access to some of the best strawberries, oranges, kale, apples that you may not feel you need to grow because at best you might just match their quality, which frees you up for your rule number one.Our rule number one is experiment experimentation. We wanted to have a little plot that, yes, we’ll have some things that are maybe more staples, like the herbs that we can always continue to pick year round, but we have varieties of citrus, pomegranate, berries that even our favorite berry guy at the farmer’s market is like, oh, I’ve never had that and never grown that.And now I’m being like, oh, well, we grew it here. You can grow it there. Do you want to grow it for us. And he’s like, yeah, let’s do it. And that is actually our Logan berries.That’s incredible. When we moved from London, what blew my mind about the farmer’s markets there is that you could get way hotter chilies than you ever can here, which feels kind of ironic. And then they have this green called a spring green, which is this bizarre mix of a cabbage and a kale that I have never found anywhere near a green as good here. I’ve been obsessed with it since.We have seeds. And one of our farmers is growing it for us. Incredible produce.Rule #2: Grow in Feasible QuantitiesOnce you get a year or two of growing your own produce and actually having the doors open to your restaurant, you’ll have an idea of what people are eating, what they’re drawn to, but then also how much you need to grow so that you are balancing it out with the space you have and what you want to plant and what people are actually going to eat, which is a component of your rule number two.Rule number two, grow in feasible quantities. The garden itself has been in the works, shall we say, for the last five years. Essentially, since we moved out here, there was one year the restaurant was stuck in plan check. We were testing a few different things. We put in a whole row of cucumbers.Sure, we may have grown around 400 pounds of cucumbers that year. That’s a lot of pickles. A lot of pickles and a lot of bribery to neighbors, to friends. I don’t think there are enough people who eat cucumbers in our neighborhood.We can grow a good amount of stuff like herbs. We can use a ton of herbs. Being able to just like, oh, we’re out of herbs. Let’s run to the garden. And pomegranate, we have one pomegranate tree. We get five pomegranates from it this year. It’s still in development.You just need to be aware that certain things can go crazy. If I’m producing 1000 pounds of kale, am I going to eat 1000 pounds of kale. Maybe.Rule #3: Close the LoopThat idea of not wanting to waste anything at a restaurant, especially when you’re growing, it does weigh heavily on a lot of conversations these days about creating a system that can support itself, which plays a role in your rule number three.Rule number three is, if you have a garden, use it to try to close the loop on your own waste in whatever house or restaurant you’re in. That was an ethos that we had from the beginning, before we opened, before we even started the concept of the garden or of Tamat. We wanted everything to be as sustainable as possible.And of course that starts with food practices within your kitchen. So of course, all of our food scraps are composted. We have coffee in the morning. All of our grounds go right into the garden. We even compost our menus.We need all sorts of different types of composting materials. You have a lot of things that get wet as they start to break down, and then you need a bit of dry. Our menus, we print them every day because things change so much. It also helps us think about, can we reuse these vegetable or fruit scraps for something else.And oftentimes they go right into our cocktail program for infusions. We’ve also noticed that our black trash bin doesn’t smell nearly as bad when we’re separating things out, so it feels like we’re doing it right.Rule #4: Get Involved in Urban PlanningDoing it right and planning the design of your garden is a lot of times where people get really intimidated. Your fourth rule talks about why it is important to get involved with that process. What’s your rule number four.Our rule number four is get involved in urban planning. And I get why that’s intimidating, and it feels like, how do you possibly get a foot in the door.We started with this piece of land before we even ripped the concrete out. It was a disused car lot for the airport rental vehicles, and it just looked like an absolute trash yard. We sent soil out to labs to get tested. It all came back as if it were just sterile. Nothing had leeched through, thank God, but also there was just no sign of life.For the past seven decades, it had been the other end of the spectrum. Exactly. The big thing with gardens is how do you water it. It’s a very expensive thing if you’re using potable water.And on Westchester Parkway, which is a huge boulevard parallel to the runway at LAX, all of that is watered and irrigated with the purple pipeline that is recycled water from Hyperion. Exactly. So we’re one block away from where that stops. And we were like, we have to get that water.It has nutrients in it, great for what we’re growing. It feels like a really important thing to do in terms of sustainability and our own economic costs of what’s going into this garden, but also advocating for other plots of land around Sepulveda and where we are to have access to that too.So we, it took a long time, but we worked with the city, DWP, got our council people involved and got that pipe extended across Sepulveda. That’s incredible. It was really fun once we got it done. Once we got it done, it was amazing.Rule #5: Plan Six Months AheadBeing able to think about options and different ways of planning and approaching how to grow your own garden at a restaurant is also a giant part of the process. Your fifth and final rule talks about putting in that mental effort while looking further down the road. What’s your rule number five.Rule number five is plan six months ahead. Add it to the list. Just think constantly about what you’re doing in the future. You have to. If you want to harvest something in September, you’ve got to plant it in January, February.We’re very much telling all of our chefs, do you guys want to plant anything. What do you remember growing up with cooking with or something that we don’t know about that your parents used to make for you all the time. Give us some thoughts on what you want to add to the menu.And we’ve had chefs be like, hey, I got these seeds from grandma or whoever. There was actually a guy who was hanging out really early morning by the garden. He sees me and he’s like, this is the most amazing thing I’ve seen. Here, I’ve got some chiltepin pepper seeds. I want to give them to you to try and grow. They’re the native of Chile to North America.Incredible. We want to be planting and harvesting in six months time. It gives inspiration to our staff, to our bar program, to everyone in the restaurant and be like, okay, it’s a super seasonal restaurant, but we’re also growing our own stuff and I can have an effect on what we grow and have a little bit of ownership in this whole program when they’re like, oh, this is what you planted for me and now we’ve got it.ClosingReally really fun. It’s such a beautiful idea, this intent to grow and to support your restaurant and the workers there and the creativity. Harry, Natalie, congratulations on everything.If people want to come by the restaurant, see what you’re growing in the garden, just follow along with what you’re up to, where can they go.You can go to our website, tomat.la, or follow us on Instagram at tamat.la, or you can just come right in.Well, I will be crossing town very soon to come have a meal with you and to walk through your lovely garden. See you soon. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with journalist, screenwriter, and author Ella Quittner, whose new book, Obsessed with the Best, digs into what it means to care deeply about what you make. We get into her Five Rules for Telling a Good Story, from finding your angle to chasing the emotional gut punch, and why approaching every subject with humanity is non-negotiable. Ella breaks down how she moves between journalism, fiction, and food writing without losing her voice, and shares the practical ways she builds stories from scratch, even when the idea isn’t fully there yet. It’s a conversation about process, discipline, and the reality of making something worth reading.I love this episode because it cuts through the romantic version of writing and gets into the actual work. Ella is deep in it, doing the reps, figuring it out in real time, and she’s generous enough to explain how it actually happens. There’s no posturing here, just three rats in a trench coat sharing clear, usable insights for anyone who wants to write and not just talk about writing. If you’re trying to find your voice, or even understand what that means, this is the kind of conversation that gives you a way in and makes the whole thing feel possible.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.IntroductionHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with journalist, screenwriter, and author Ella Quittner, whose new book, Obsessed with the Best, is out now on HarperCollins wherever books are sold. She shares her five rules for telling a good story. She talks about the importance of approaching each story with humanity to narrow in on the gut punch of every narrative and that when you find your own voice in your own words, that’s when you’ll find real success in your writing. It is a great conversation for anyone looking to share stories they love, to elevate the words they write, and for anyone who’s thinking about writing something for the first time. So let’s get into the rules.Meeting Ella QuittnerElla, it is pretty crazy that this isn’t the first time we’re meeting because I feel like we have all of the same colleagues and friends in the food scene. I agree and I feel mad at them for not introducing us. I’ve been reading a lot of your work for years. What I’ve always found is that storytelling is such an essential part of what you do and what you write about.Early StorytellingDo you remember the first story outside of your own life that you wanted to tell? When I was a child, my sister and I used to make comic books, my older sister Zoe and I. She would illustrate Mm-hmm. really uproariously funny. Love it. That was the first story I wanted to tell, which is just being a young child, feeling humiliation, but also delight at my grandma ordering a knish at a deli.The Emotional Duality of WritingSo much of personal writing can be humiliating and exalting. empowering and lonely. There really is this duality in that act of creativity, especially when it comes down to just you and either a computer or a pen and a piece of paper. How do you balance those juxtaposed emotions and stay motivated?The emotions of wanting to quit and give up and feeling like a failure and self-doubt, but then also that egotistical, maybe I keep going or that thing where you have this inflated sense of the importance of what you’re doing. All those you mean? Your words, not mine, but yes.the older i’ve gotten and the more i’ve written professionally across different fields and genres whether it’s journalism screenwriting fiction food writing cookbooks etc the more i’ve been able to learn to separate my expectations from the outcomes and not seek external validation but just try to create work that i’m proud of that goes a really long way toward letting you feel less tortured in the process because i remember being in my 20s being like oh my god i wish i was Helen Rosner i wish i was David today i’m sorry i wish i I wish I was all these people and I’m just some f*****g idiot in the East Village trying to write 400 words.Once you embrace, why am I doing this? No one’s making me do it. It doesn’t pay well. I don’t have to be doing it. So there must be something that I think I’m uniquely bringing to it. and try and separate yourself from the outcome of anyone reading it. Is anyone going to care? I mean, you do want to add something to the conversation, but I think separating yourself from how it’s received and caring about what the reception is going to be goes a long way.Finding that pride and ownership of what do I want to say helps because then of course you can only say it the way you know how. You can’t say it like George Saunders or Helen Ross or David Stairs. You could only say it like Darren. Or Ella. Or Ella.Writing and the Creative ProcessBeing able to separate yourself from the process and the creativity and the creation is probably the most healthy attitude to have in going to releasing your debut cookbook, Obsessed with the Best. I loved it. I thought it was an excellent balance between recipes and essays and anecdotes. How did you land on the right mix to make it what you truly wanted to say?That was a tricky balance because I’m a verbose person and there’s no limit to how deep I’ll go on a topic or how many tangents or reporting whims I’ll follow. And I will find a story in every single one of them. That’s just who I am. Of course.Despite all best efforts. I have a very producorial brain. So knowing I have to do all this stuff. So how can I fit in the stuff I want to do, but still turn in the other stuff as well that is more time consuming or labor intensive, that’s less flashy work.Being able to produce, being able to be your own boss and editor is such a key part to hitting any deadlines and to really getting the pieces you want out in the world and figuring out what you want to say, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for telling a good story.Rule #1: Call Your SisterMany of us who’ve written, especially in the food world, find themselves wanting to tell the same story that other journalists or people want to tell. Your first rule talks about the key importance of making any story your own. What’s your rule number one?Rule number one is call your sister. Go on. This is sort of a cheeky, euphemistic way of saying it. What is your angle? You have to identify that.This applies not just to journalism, where if you’re pitching an editor, you do have to pitch a very, very specific story. It should be an idea that you’re especially well suited to it. explore it should be built into that angle but also applies to a book a novel a television show a feature script a proposal for a cookbook it’s not enough to say i just want to explore this topic it’s an interesting topic you need a lens.So i think about it like i’m going to call my sister and tell them a story i wouldn’t call my sister to tell her a funny story that happened at work last week and just start that conversation going hey zoe hey clementine funny story or you know work work’s a topic we should talk about right.I would drop them into a specific scene with my specific perspective and a specific mood. And I would tell that story so that every piece of it is calibrated to set up to the punchline. I don’t think this is advice that only applies to funny stories. If I was going to call someone and tell them an emotional story, I’m going to calibrate it similarly just using different levers.So I call it call your sister because if I’m stuck on an idea and I don’t know what the angle on my topic is, I think, okay, I’m going to call my sister. How would I tell her? I think having that angle, especially when your sister or sibling is like, I got 30 seconds for you, for you to keep my attention. Literally. Is really important.That being said, when you do hit a certain level of career or you have a good relationship with an editor, you can pitch a little bit more topic when there’s trust that you’re going to dig into a person or a theme to find out the story that you want to tell.Rule #2: Collect a Giant Pile of DetailsWhich ties directly into your rule number two. That’s true. And I will go into two, but I also think it’s worth saying you don’t want to have a preconceived conclusion when you pitch an editor. You want to have a lens and a POV and some ideas about why this might be the case. Yes. But you do want to be really open to gathering, especially in the nonfiction space, gathering a bunch of information and exploring what conclusion that leads you to.Which does lead to rule number two. If you simply can’t identify your angle, collect a giant pile of details. If I’m having trouble figuring out the in and out of a scene or what a pilot should look like or how to structure journalism piece or what that core thesis leading into it that I want to test and report out is I will make tons of notes for myself.Like I will scribble in a journal or an iPhone note. I will interview 15 people. The whole purpose of this reporting and brainstorming and I’ll read another book. I’ll read another article. I’ll go on Wikipedia. I’ll watch a TV show. I’ll watch a movie. It’s just trying to figure out what is jumping out as interesting and important.And then in a secondary sense, what is supporting what is interesting and what is important. It’s also pattern identification. If you don’t know exactly what the story is, is sometimes talking to a bunch of people and realizing, okay, they’re all consumers of these new meal replacement products that look like Soylent, but kind of yassified for millennials.And they’re all telling me that the reason they’re buying them is because they’re really overstimulated by this overconsumption, max content, hellscape we live in. And they’re all telling me that these things are saving them time. That’s helpful, right? That’s like a pattern. That’s people saying this is one reason.It might not be the only reason. And you know, it’s only five people saying that. So it might not be the end all be all of the story, but it’s information that will help you then think, okay, that’s a backbone of what I’m putting together.Rule #3: Approach Your Story with HumanityConnecting your story through the way that people actually live and how they feel about it is really important. It has been said that we live in a cynical world and it’s very easy to come in with some snark or preconceived judgments and really find the negative aspect of it.Your third rule talks about having an open heart when you go into writing. What’s your rule number three? Rule number three is approach your story with humanity.I agree. I think it’s very easy to be judgmental or in my case, overly cynical. I do think one of the best ways you can be of service to any story is really try to understand everyone’s perspectives and have empathy or sympathy for other points of view. Agreed.Situations are so rarely black and white. So of course, this applies to nonfiction and journalism and the people you’re interviewing. But I think it especially applies to fiction and screenwriting. I think it’s a failure to not let every character be fully formed and nuanced. Otherwise, you end up with a story that’s so one dimensional and boring, no one can relate to it.When there is no one who can relate to an actual story, you lose the people completely.Rule #4: Find the Gut PunchA lot of the times when I think about writing, I think about the opening and that very classic five paragraph essay, that universal line that brings everyone in. But there is a part that comes in every narrative that is the key moment that really shows off what you’re trying to tell differently and in a unique way that no one else could.What’s your rule number four? Rule number four is close your eyes and just imagine the gut punch. All the time. It could be this deep emotional moment where you’re tearing up. It could be a punchline. It could be a shocking reveal.What is your intended emotional effect? Because you need to know what that is so that you can fiddle with the dials that can amplify it, tamp it down, create twists and turns, build tension and pace it in a way that we’re leading up to it before the reader wants to put it down. And then when you get to that point, have that max impact that you’re intending.Pacing is such a huge part of writing. Every book is going to tell you a different way to pace your story and you yourself are going to find what works best for you.Rule #5: Don’t Be Bound by RulesIt took me until college till I found my voice, which is to say for your fifth and final rule that there are many ways to tell a story. Yeah. What’s your rule number five?Rule number five is listen to everybody’s rules and try them out, but don’t feel bound by them. Yes. Especially mine, by the way. I’m aware of the hypocrisy of this being my rule. I’m just three rats in a trench coat. I don’t know anything all your life worth. try to give you advice on becoming a better writer.And a lot of it is fantastic. And a lot of it is coming from a good place. People really do want to help you get your ideas out there in a legible way. Of course. But there is no one size fits all to tell a story, write a write a journalism feature call your sister and tell a good story you might bring something really particular to a story that someone’s pre-existing rules might not apply to so you should feel open to that.When you’re trying to work your way up say you’re just out of college and you want to start getting some bylines and real publications you can build up your essay of Of course, you’re going to have to follow some rules in order to climb ladders. Of course.But if it’s a story that you’re passionate about that you’re crafting just for you, you should give yourself the freedom to do it however you want, at least in the first brush.ClosingElla, if people want to buy the book, check out your writing, see what you’re up to out in the world, where can they go? They can buy the book by searching Obsessed with the Best, Ella Quittner, walking into any bookstore, and they can find me on Instagram at E-Q-U-I-T-T-N-E-R.Next time we’re in the same city, we’re going to shame all the people that didn’t introduce us by having a cup of coffee together. Congratulations on everything. I can’t wait to get my hands on a physical coffee. Thank you. And I can’t wait to have that coffee. Our mutuals will rue the day. Rue it. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Sabrina Rudin, the force behind Spring Cafe in Aspen and New York. She is also the author of Healthy with a Side of Happy, which comes out on April 28th, and shares her Five Rules for Cooking Vegetarian Food. Not trends, not rules for the sake of rules, but food that makes you feel good and keeps you coming back for more. We talk about what it actually means to cook and eat well without overcomplicating it. Skip the fake meat. Cook with what’s in season. Look outside your usual rotation. Make it satisfying. And most importantly, let the food do the talking.What I love about Sabrina is that she doesn’t hedge. She’s not trying to trick you into eating vegetables. She’s not disguising them or apologizing for them. She cooks them like they matter, because they do. There’s confidence in that. You feel it in the way she talks about a squash or a bowl of lentils the same way someone else might talk about a steak. It’s direct, it’s honest, and it works. You leave the conversation wanting to cook, not convert. You want to make something that tastes good, fills you up, and maybe shifts how you think about what a meal can be.Thank you to Lesley Suter & Noah Galuten for having me on Food Parents last week. We swap recipes for our kids, talk about the last wins we had in the kitchen, and I share how I sneak Red Boat Fish Sauce into everything. IntroductionHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz Today, I’m joined by Sabrina Rudin, who is the owner of Spring Cafe in Aspen and the author of Healthy with a Side of Happy, 100 Plant-Based Recipes to Feed Your Family. She shares her five rules for cooking vegetarian food and preaches the importance of foregoing faux meat when cooking dinner, that by experimenting with different cuisines and flavors, you will open your palate to a world of deliciousness and that just because it doesn’t have meat doesn’t mean it isn’t hearty. It is a great conversation for anyone who’s already foregone any carnivorous eating habits and for those who want to eat less meat and add a lot more vegetables to their cooking. So let’s get into the rules.Opening ConversationSabrina, so nice to meet you. Thank you for making the time to sit down and chat with me. Excited to have you on the show. I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. We are knee deep in the Winter Olympics, which I know is something close to your heart as a former snowboard instructor. Oh, gosh. What do you love the most about being out on the slopes? I love the peace and quiet of it. I love early morning tracks, either fresh powder or a groomed run, just getting out there and seeing all the snow and the trees and being in nature. I also love the adrenaline. There’s nothing like dropping into a run on your snowboard. Both of those two things combined just really does it for me. I love getting out on the slopes. I did as a kid and just got back into it recently. And what I found that hasn’t changed is that the food that I find at the lodges can be super heavy, not the energy I need. You can’t ski after it. You found the same thing. And instead of just complaining about it, you wound up opening up your own place, Spring Cafe Aspen. Why was it so important to you to offer a different culinary option for those hitting the slopes?The Origin of Spring CafeWell, I was living out in Aspen after college teaching snowboarding. I spent a lot of time there growing up. I would wake up really early to get to line up to get our lesson assignments. And then I would finish a day of skiing. All I wanted was a cozy, comforting, big bowl of food that would leave me feeling really good. I wanted a vegetarian option. Mm hmm. It’s an activity driven lifestyle. I wanted something vibrant. I wanted bright colors, cabbage and broccoli and tofu and brown rice, juices and smoothies and all the foods that I know fuel you that don’t leave you feeling bloated and tired and heavy. And I couldn’t find it. So I did complain about it. for a long time. I also drew inspiration from a lot of places in LA. I wanted a place like Cafe Gratitude or Real Food Daily. I wanted an Earth Cafe, something with a counterculture vibe and a fun, vibrant juice bar that people could gather around after a day of skiing. Everyone told me I was crazy, but I have this terrible habit that when people tell me I’m crazy and something won’t succeed, I think I should test it out. So that’s what I did. A few years later, I opened Spring Cafe and that was almost 15 years ago.The Cookbook PhilosophyIt feels like all of your lifetime experiences of cooking healthy and vegetarian food has bubbled up into your first cookbook, Healthy with a Side of Happy, which is coming out April 28th on Union Square and Co. What did you want to say with these plant-based recipes in a vegetarian-focused cookbook? I wanted to say a few things. I wanted to say, one, nobody has to be vegetarian. I eat a little bit of meat. The healthiest way to eat, no matter what fad comes and goes, is plenty of fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, seeds, grains, loaded with fiber, loaded with nutrients. So I wanted people to know that you don’t have to only eat this way, but you should know how to cook this way. And I wanted to make it simple, accessible. I just wanted it to be full of joy, hence the title, Healthy with a Side of Happy. I wanted to say to people, this is the foundation for a healthy, happy, joyful life. And you don’t have to go crazy. These are the foods that I grew up eating. This is how we prepared them in a way that always felt nourishing and joyful to me. If I can do it, you can do it because I am not a trained chef. I am a home chef learned to cook by watching my mom and then experimenting from other people’s cookbooks. Love it. There’s so much out there. Wellness has become this crazy industry. Health has become this crazy industry. Plant-based food has become an industry. But if you just could have one Bible in your home to help you live a healthier, happier, cleaner life, this is what I would give you. I love that confidence and I love that conviction and I love that curation of, I know there’s a lot out there. I’ve lived that life both outside of nature and opening a business, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for cooking vegetarian food.Rule #1: Make Vegetables the StarYour very first rule is one that I agree with wholeheartedly because when I want something that is plant-based, it’s not because I’m missing meat. It’s because I want the best of what I can get out of the ground. What’s your rule number one? Forget the faux meat and make vegetables the star of the show. People who want vegetarian food, you’re not trying to make it meat. You’re not trying to serve the meat. It shouldn’t taste like meat. It should taste like vegetables. When I’m cooking for people and I want to make them this beautiful vegetarian dish or meal or dinner or lunch, I don’t try to make a sausage stuffed anything. No, thank you. I choose a vegetable, a beautiful squash, and I stuff it with wild rice, with veggies. I love to make a lentil or a tempeh bolognese. There’s a recipe for that in my book. It’s fun to take a twist on a classic meaty dish and make it with vegetables. Forget the fake meat. Make vegetables the star of the show because when we talk about eating a plant-based diet, let’s eat plants and show everyone what you can do with them. There is really no better way to convince someone to consider plant-based dishes than just relying on the flavor and the realness of the dish itself. Trying to tell someone, oh, I’ve made the best version of this, or oh, you don’t need that in your dish is a surefire way to turn them off, which ties directly into your rule number two.Rule #2: Don’t Try to Convert EveryoneMy rule number two is don’t try to convert everyone. Just focus on the joy of sharing a meal. The point of everything that I do in my work with the cafe, with my social media, and really my book is food is joy. Nourishment is joy. Coming together to share a meal I think is one of the most special things we can do together as humans. Forget trying to convert or convince anyone that your way is better or that they should be eating this way. And let the food speak for itself. Cooking a meal for your kids, your significant other, your friends, your community, and just coming together around a table is really a great act of love and service. Let the food that you put down really be infused with joy, with love, and let sharing that experience be the proof in the pudding.Rule #3: Experiment with Cuisines and FlavorsBeing able to create those new experiences and opening someone’s eyes to the possibility of this type of cooking does come with exploring different cultures and cuisines and flavors. If all you’ve ever had is broccoli with Braggs again and again over brown rice, which we’ve all enjoyed... A lot of that. I’ve eaten a lot of that. It can get really stale. It can really turn someone off. Your third rule talks about opening your pantry and your ingredients to a much larger world. What’s your rule number three? My rule number three is experiment with different cuisines and flavors. My kids eat the most every meal when we do Greek night, Indian night, Thai night. Mm-hmm. Do I get it all perfectly? No. Do I really try to honor the culture that I’ve chosen to represent in the food? Yes. Do I put Bragg’s in Indian food sometimes? Yes. I’m not going to lie. It’s popular for a reason. There’s this myth. You have to make the adult the spicy version and the kid the flavorless bland version. I’ve actually found that to be incredibly untrue. My children eat garlic, turmeric, ginger, spices from the time they start solids. And to me, that’s what gets them excited about it. The beauty of experimenting with another cuisine is most people really do think American food or meat and potatoes or fish and veggies or, oh, we’re going over. She’s going to make vegetarian food. What could she possibly make? Pasta. And when I put down a meal that’s really rooted in another tradition with flavors that people aren’t used to, that’s where the excitement comes from. And I think you can show people a lot, showcase veggies in a way, stepping a little bit outside of your comfort zone. There’s a vegetarian Indian meal that I had from a Tiffin woman who cooked out of her house from the South Bay 15 years ago that I still say, if I could eat like that all the time, I’d never have another piece of meat. Exactly.Rule #4: Shop Seasonally and LocallyPart of what made her food so incredible was the freshness, was driven by what was in season, which I know is something that’s said a million times, but it’s hard to ignore it when things taste so good. That approach to shopping and what you put in these dishes is a fundamental rule number four. My rule number four, I have to give credit, is inspired by the wonderful chef and food writer, Melissa Clark. Legend. I read her cook this now. Nearly 20 years ago when I was living in the city, I’m starting to cook on my own. She talks about going to the farmer’s market every day of the year in New York. Mm. trudging there in the dead of winter, in the snow, buying what’s in season and making a meal from it. And that really stuck with me ever since I have visited the Union Square Farmers Market in New York every week. Wednesdays and Saturdays are my days. I go rain, sleet, snow, anything. I really try to find what’s in season. I love talking to the farmers that are growing my food. I find things that you wouldn’t normally or ever find in the traditional aisles of a grocery store. Really encouraging people to shop. locally and seasonally from their local market does so much for our food ecosystem. You get kohlrabi, you get baby bok choy, you get yum choy some, and suddenly it’s not only just broccoli with Braggs. Zilling bok choy, which is a recipe I have in my book, a variety of squash that you have never tried before that’s so tender and sweet and delicious, melts in your mouth while roasted. I just like to encourage people to be excited by something different and something new. Some people get really excited about going shoe shopping. I get really excited about going veggie shopping.Rule #5: Make It HeartyHaving that passion that started with you wanting to open Spring Cafe in Aspen all these years later has really come together to help you shape the types of recipes that you’re sharing in your book and that you want to put out in the world and ties directly into your rule number five. My rule number five is make it hearty. Stews and soups are such a great way to highlight how satiating plant-based food can be because when I first started talking about an idea for Spring Cafe in Aspen, my coworkers, my friends, everyone was like, oh, No one wants to eat salad in Aspen. Everyone wants an elk chili or a burger. And I said, well, first of all, who said anything about just salad? I don’t want a salad right now. I want a coconut curry with veggies and chickpeas. I want enchiladas. I want a lasagna. I want a sweet potato white bean burger. I want a huge breakfast burrito. I just want to feel really good after I eat it. When I first opened spring in New York, what always... filled my cup the most was when we would get tables of a few guys who were on their lunch break from work and they would order the sweet potato white bean burger or the chickpea tuna pita in the early days when we opened it I would walk around and introduce myself to everyone and thank everyone for coming in and I always loved seeing a big group of guys lick their plates clean and I would start talking them and say, do you feel satisfied or is this your first time? And they’d say, we are obsessed with it. We love it. We come every day from work. We feel so good. Our partners are so excited. We’re eating healthy. We can go to the gym and we feel really great at the end of the day after work. It might be a more typical choice to choose Chipotle or another option, all of which are great options. But if you can really show people just how satisfying, satiating it can be, that’s really how you show people that you are what you eat. healthy with a side of happy. That’s the correlation between eating good and feeling good for me.ClosingIf people want to come to the cafe, if they want to see book events you’re doing, follow along with what you’re cooking and if the content you make, where can they go? They can find me and follow along on my Instagram at Spring by Sabrina. They can come visit one of the cafes in Aspen or New York City. The best way is my website, sabrinarudin.com or my Instagram, Spring by Sabrina. Congratulations. Excited for your first book to come out into the world. Thank you. It’s such a great podcast. Thank you for having me. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for stopping by. Love to be here. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Garrett Oliver travels the way most people want to, with purpose, curiosity, and a very good palate. In this episode, the Brooklyn Brewery brewmaster and global bon vivant breaks down his Five Rules for Great Traveling. It starts before you even take off. Dress well, take care of yourself, and bring your own sense of hospitality onto the plane. From there, it is about where you land and how you move. Stay close to what matters. Use something as simple as the best baguette in Paris to guide your neighborhood. Spend time in markets, both old and new, to understand how a place actually lives. And when you find somewhere that feels right, go back. Again and again.What I love about this conversation is how intentional it is. Garrett does not just travel often, he travels well. Every choice has a reason behind it, from what cocktail he packs on a flight to how he chooses a neighborhood to stay in. Talking to someone with that level of experience sharpens your own instincts. It reminds you that great travel is not about checking boxes, it is about paying attention. About building rituals. About knowing what matters to you and using that as your compass. This episode is a reminder that the difference between a good trip and a great one usually comes down to how much thought you put into it before you even leave.For my latest profile for Fine Dining Lovers, Miles Thompson, the chef and co-owner of Baby Bistro in LA, took me through his three-hundred-and-twenty-six cookbook collection. He talked about the books that inspired him and how they shaped the food he serves today. IntroductionHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. It’s always a pleasure when I get to sit down with my friend and world-traveling bon vivant, Garrett Oliver, who is the brewmaster of the Brooklyn Brewery, author of The Brewmaster’s Table, and editor-in-chief of the Oxford Companion to Beer.He’s here today to share his five rules for great traveling and talks about how knowing where Paris’ best baguette can be your go-to guide for where to stay, how by taking care of yourself on a flight will be the best kickoff to any trip, and that to truly understand any city, you should understand its markets.As a first-class traveler and a lover of adventure, Garrett’s rules are the best insider insights for anyone who wants to get the most out of going abroad. So let’s get into the rules.Catching UpGarrett, it is so good to see you. We’ve had meals together. We’ve had adventures together. And it’s nice to sit down and chat together once again.It has been too long, my friend. It has been too long. And the last time we saw each other was under circumstances that were a little heavy. So it’s nice to have a little sunshine and chat today.Indeed. We think of our boy every day. Every day.Why Travel MattersFor as long as I’ve known you, you have been gallivanting across the globe. What do you love about getting out into the world?There’s always a new horizon, a new experience. People say to me, how do you get to have this super cool life? And it really is because I know people like yourself. I was watching recently the Star Wars series Endor, and there’s the character, and there’s a code that he’s supposed to give to somebody he’s meeting for a rendezvous. I have friends everywhere.The booze, food, music mafia that runs worldwide. You can just basically whisper to somebody, I have friends everywhere. And you do. I saw someone asking for Neil’s list in Mexico City yesterday. And the next slide a minute later was, I got it. Don’t worry about it. I’m good. And it keeps getting updated. I think it’s 70 pages now or something. It’s very dense.Given all your travels and your years at it, was there a moment when you felt like you had gotten mastery of how you like to see the world?I still have a lot of places that I want to see, but last time I re-upped my global entry, they asked you to name all the countries that you have been in in the last five years. And it turned out that it was 28 or 29, depending upon whether or not you considered the Vatican to be a country.At a certain point, you’re like, yeah, I know exactly how this is going. I’m James Bond in this situation and I have a way that I do this.On the other side of that coin, some people might see pro travelers and be intimidated. What do you say to the people who might be afraid to hit the road because they’re not doing it, quote, the right way?First of all, you will never be sorry about hitting the road to any place cool, especially if there’s people there that you know. I’ve seen so many people who were intimidated, like, oh my God, I’m going to India. And when they got back, they were like, that was the coolest thing I ever did in my entire life.I left my house. Nothing new is going to happen here. People are like, oh, how can you live in New York? Well, I live in New York because I love living here, partially because I can leave it. That is a luxury for sure, but it’s a luxury that I get to enjoy. So I feel like I’ve earned it.You’ve definitely earned it, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for great traveling.Rule #1: Get DressedNow, your first two rules talk about the importance of preparing for your trip, starting with the travel itself. What’s your rule number one?My rule number one is get dressed. I did a thing for New York Magazine for secret strategists on how I’m dressing for an airplane. I personally am never going to feel good if I look like a slob.You don’t have to get dressed up. It’s not like the 40s, but you should look good. And looking good is actually part of how you bond with the folks who are actually operating the airplane. And they’re going to be a lot nicer to you.If you’re going to wear sweatpants, go get really good ones. Make sure that they move easily, that whatever you’re wearing is breathable. Bring a pair of slippers. Don’t have your feet messed up in shoes for an eight hour flight. Thermal socks are good for being on the plane with the slippers.Get dressed, look good, make yourself comfortable.Rule #2: Uncattle YourselfYour next rule deals with setting yourself up with some hospitality on your flight. What’s your rule number two?If you learn only one thing from this podcast, when you’re heading for an airplane, uncattle yourself. Unless you’re in business class or you’re in first class, you will be treated as cattle. They are not making any money on you. They don’t care about you. You must care for yourself.Rule number one of uncattling yourself is bring your own napkins. Cloth napkins. There’s a reason why in business class and first class, the first thing they do to let you know that you’re being taken care of is they put that big white cloth napkin in front of you. You can do that for yourself, and it makes all the difference in the world.Bring your own food. You could have a spectacular sandwich. If I’m coming back from France, I go to the charcuterie shop and I’ve got a pâté, small packets of mayonnaise. Very important. I’m going to be good.Personally, I carry my own cocktails. 100 milliliter spray bottle. Looks like hair tonic. Keep it in the quart baggie. Never been caught. When they go by, I’m like, could I just have a glass of ice? And they’re like, here you go, sir. And as soon as they’re past me, I’m like, dook, dook, dook, dook, dook. And everybody looks up and I’m like, yeah, that’s a cask strength old fashioned. Nothing like a personal tipple at 30,000 feet.Rule #3: Reside in ProximityOnce you’ve had a great adventure on a plane, knowing where you’re going and where you’re staying is really important. What’s your rule number three?Rule number three, reside in proximity. Sometimes residing in proximity means you want to be close to the beach. People are like, oh, where do you stay in Paris?The way I decide has to do with the things that I have to do, where are the metro lines coming in. But the number one way, I look at the last three years of the best baguette in Paris competition. And wherever I get my Airbnb or whatever is going to be within a five minute walk or less of one of the top three winners.That is the thing that matters to me. You can walk out your front door, you can have a fresh, great baguette, and now you’re golden.Rule #4: Understand the MarketsUnderstanding the neighborhood is really important, especially if you want to travel like a local, which includes shopping.If I want to understand a new country, most parts of the world, there’s some kind of old food market. I want to know what the old food market looks like. I want to know what the flea markets are like. And I also want to go to the supermarket.When you go to the old market and then you look at the supermarket, you will understand so much of how people in this country spend their time, how they spend their money and what they value.A good example is France. Some of the best markets in the world, but the supermarkets, they’ve got a lot of frozen food. You have a better understanding of what’s being projected to you, but then what’s actually going on.When you go to a flea market, you understand things about the past and present of the country. Who’s out there selling things? Are they all from another country? If you go to Belgium, for example, most of the people selling at the flea market will be from Africa. This will speak to a colonial past.If you go to a flea market in Norway, what you will see is the fact that Norway is now rich but used to be poor. Before they found oil in the 50s or 60s, they were a poor country. So Norwegian antiques, they’re like Soviet antiques.When you see that stuff, it gives you a deeper understanding of what’s going on in the country. It doesn’t matter where you go. You see what people value.I go to Japan and I buy really crazy cool old indigo fabric for almost nothing because these things, which are seriously handmade and beautiful, are not really being valued by modern Japanese people.A lot of these flea markets are at temples. People are not getting up early to go out there. And I’m that guy. I’m going to Japan, I’m like, what are the flea markets that are going to be happening within the time that I’m going to be here? The biggest one at the Oi race course, they have 700 dealers. It’s incredible.I have made this mistake more than once, not going with the extra empty suitcase. And I’ve had to buy an extra empty suitcase, which thankfully you can also buy at the flea market.Rule #5: Go BackYour fifth and final rule deals with something I struggle with all the time when choosing where to travel. How do you justify going back to the places you love again and again?There is a reason why, in my case, Japan, France, Spain, Italy. I’ve gone to the same town in Italy for at least a week every summer for 25 years.The way I justify it is that I can go up a mountain, 20 minutes out of Portofino, walk into a restaurant, and everyone comes out of the kitchen to kiss me. You might as well be home. What else could you possibly want?It’s a matter of balance. You know where I haven’t been, and I hate to admit this, I have never been to Mexico City. People tell me that I’m out of my mind, like it’s going to be my favorite place in the world. I will go to Mexico City this year. I have Niels’ List, but I have not experienced Niels’ List.I go to Mexico every year, but I go to the beach. I’m not regretting the beach. The beach was really, really nice. There were palm trees over my head for two weeks. I read four books. I regret nothing.ClosingGarrett, thank you so much for sharing all of your tips about world travel. I’m going to be using the baguette method moving forward.If people want to follow along with your adventures or see what you’re working on at Brooklyn Brewery, how can they see what you’re up to?So I’m at iGarrettOliver. One of these days I will discover who, like a million years ago, got Garrett Oliver because there aren’t that many of us in the world.Garrett, thank you so much. Looking forward to sharing a drink and a bite with you sometime soon. Let’s make it happen. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Chris Valdes cooks with a point of view, and it starts with where he comes from. In this episode, the Miami chef and TV host breaks down his Five Rules for Using Food as Identity. He talks about cooking with your story at the center, why success only matters if you share it, and how taking care of your body is non-negotiable if you want to stay in the game. There is a through line to everything he says. The small moments matter. The daily rituals count. The goal is not the highlight reel, it is building a life that feels good to live, one meal at a time.What I love about Chris is how grounded it all feels. There is ambition there, real drive, but it is anchored in generosity and perspective. He is not chasing the next big thing at the expense of everything else. He is paying attention. He is taking care of himself. He is making space for other people. It is a reminder that you can build something meaningful without burning out or losing the plot. That kind of clarity is rare, and it sticks with you.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.IntroductionHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I chat with Miami chef and TV host, Chris Valdes, who’s here to share his five rules for using food as identity. He talks about how the best males are never eaten alone, how taking care of your body is an essential ingredient for a healthy career, and that the good life isn’t just red carpets and big moments, it’s elevating it every day. It’s a great conversation for those looking to stay in the game for the long haul. and how having an open mind to what comes your way is a great way to live your best life.So let’s get into the rules.Welcome & Opening QuestionChris, so nice to meet you. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy week in Miami to sit down for a chat. Welcome to the show.Hey, thank you for having me. I’m so excited.Food has always been at the center of your family and your life. How has it shaped who you are?Growing up in a family restaurant and always being of service to others, of always being in the industry of sharing food as a way of a language of love, seeing that right since the moment I could remember, it just adapted me to giving that back to the community, giving that back to our clients, giving that back to just anyone I come across, using food as a love language, which is part of who I am.On Latin Cuisine & Cultural InfluenceIt’s been so amazing to see Latin culture and cuisine take center stage, especially in America over the last few years. Why do you think that is happening right now?I think because in Latin American culture, we’re just taught to share. We don’t mind not only sharing our dishes, but mixing it with everyone else’s dishes. So for example, here in Miami, you could go to a restaurant. It’s a fusion between Peruvian food and Asian food, Mexican and Japanese. We’ve just learned that not only can we share our food and our recipes and our culture and our history, but we can mix it with yours and we could tell two stories at once. And it’s like this big party of celebration of everyone’s culture.The Cookbook & Storytelling Through FoodYou shared a lot of these stories in your cookbook, One with the Kitchen, which is celebrating its fifth birthday with so many recipes and so many stories in your life and career. How did you select the ones you wanted to put on the pages?It was a bit hard because first of all, I’m always hungry since it was food nonstop. Most importantly, I was just tapping into memories, memories that I had from childhood, memories I had from family celebrations, special moments. In our culture, every important moment is attached to food. I just went back there and like, okay, and how could I add a twist to this? Memory, twist, add to the book. Memory, twist, add to the book. And I just put some of my favorite recipes.Aside from them having a story, I think I also wanted to include unity in there. The dish that I use in the cover of the book is a pavlova. It shows the story of what food is supposed to do. Pavlova is very popular in Peruvian culture. Many don’t know that it originated in Australia. And now everyone here, at least in Miami, enjoys pavlova. And I think I can speak for many parts of the USA or even outside, because when I recently went to Paris and London, every other restaurant had a pavlova on their menu. It’s just done beautifully. That’s what food is supposed to do. It’s supposed to just be shared and let people put their little spin on it.The Five RulesBeing able to connect with cultures and people and countries through food is one of the reasons why I love this world so much, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for using food as identity. A lot of the times people aren’t going to be able to travel to someone’s country of origin. They’re going to meet them at the restaurant. They’re going to meet them at a home. They’re going to find their food where they are.But being able to cook dishes that are intrinsically linked to who you are is a big part of your rule number one.Rule #1: Cook Where You Come FromRule number one is cook where you come from. Your story and your dish is supposed to say a little bit about where you come from, your culture, your technique, what drives you as a chef or as a cook. Many people, sometimes they get very fancy and they forget to put the most important part to the dish, which is you, which is what makes you unique and being in this world.Whenever I have the chance to incorporate myself into a recipe, I always make sure that there is extra, especially when I’m serving at home. It doesn’t mean 10 ribeyes or eight lobsters. It just sometimes can mean a bigger salad, more pizza, and it’s a fundamental part of your rule number two.Rule #2: Success Tastes Better When It’s SharedRule number two is success stays better when it’s shared. As a chef, if you have a talent or as a cook, share it with others. Share it with your family. Use this moment to bring people together. Share it with your staff. I go to the local culinary school every now and then, and I’ll teach them a class or two just because we’ve invested so much into our time, into our story, into our history. Might as well share that.Mm-hmm. There’s a special feeling when you share your knowledge, when you share what drives you with others. Not only are you placing seeds of inspiration towards others, you’re doing the most fundamental thing you could do as a human being. When you share so much of yourself.Rule #3: Take Care of Your Body Like It’s Part of the RecipeCatering, being on TV, cooking for the community, it is easy to get burnt out and run down. Then you can’t provide for anyone. Your third rule talks about adding this to the recipe to make sure that you can keep going forward.The third rule is something I learned the hard way when I was already burnt out. So it says, take care of your body like it’s part of the recipe. It’s the most important ingredient of the recipe. I feel that as a man and as a chef, we’re so trained to go, go, go. You’re not tired. Of course.Little by little, I learned the importance of boundaries within yourself. What is my day off? What am I going to do on my day off? Am I going to be doing scheduling when I’m sitting in a sofa? No, you’re going to mentally just not do anything. You’re going to give this time to yourself. You’re going to use this time to rest and rest mentally, rest physically, because if not, eventually it adds up and it takes a toll on you.Once you get into that little dark pothole, it’s very difficult to get out of it. And it’s also a long process. Take care of yourself. And I know it sounds cliche and repetitive. It wasn’t until it recently happened to me, it just taught me, you’re like a car. If you don’t take care of your car, you don’t put the water, the oil, and you don’t put gas, and eventually you’re gonna break. I could tell you that because I’ve burned three cars in my life, so.Rule #4: Elevate Your Everyday LifeA big part of burnout can be chasing big moments, red carpets, celebrity, huge fancy dinners, looking forward to the moments that are coming up and not enjoying what’s right in front of you. By practicing your fourth rule, you can elevate your life every single day. What’s your rule number four?My rule number four is elevate your everyday life. Find beauty in those random moments. For example, I like going on long walks and sometimes it’s on a gray day. Put your favorite music, light up a candle. When you go to a restaurant, say yes to the wine pairing. It’s just these little tokens of love and appreciation that you may give to yourself or to whoever’s around you to just remind yourself that it’s not always about the big moments. It’s also about what you do in the small moments that add to your big moments later on.Rule #5: Trust the ProcessThose big moments and those small moments do stack up over a lifetime in a career. It’s so hard to predict where you’re going to go when you start. Your fifth and final rule talks about how to navigate that long and winding road to when you finally found yourself at the end of it. What’s your rule number five?My rule number five is trust the process. Immediately, my mind takes me back to someone in my team that’s been working with me for eight years. I always would go up to her and I’d be like, do you think that all of these things that I’ve been doing will one day add up? And she’s like, of course, they’re going to add up.So now that I can look back at to my TV career, nine years, I just celebrated 100,000 subscribers on YouTube. Congratulations. The first platform where I started was on YouTube because I said, if there’s no platform for me, I’m going to create my own. Last week when I was celebrating that, I had a little moment to myself and I’m like, wow, all these little moments do add up. I started with a set of seven videos. I now have 207 videos.The key... And this was my hard part is patience and timing. Patience. You have to be patient with the process. Patient doesn’t mean I’m going to sit my ass here and just wait for things to come. No, that means I’m trusting the process. I’m putting in the work. I’m getting the classes. I’m getting the lessons. I’m showing up to the big interviews, to the small interviews, to the big moments, to the small moments. I’m putting in my extra cooking techniques and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All of these things add up.Where to Follow ChrisChris, I think it’s definitely added up for you. If people want to follow along with what you’re doing, reach out for you to cook for them, just see what you’re up to in your day-to-day community and culinary life. How can they follow? Where can they get involved?Google, Instagram, everywhere, Chef Chris Valdes, and you’ll see everything I’ve done there. And I invite everyone, especially for just foodies. I speak the universal love language of just wanting to share food for the sake of sharing food because it just makes me happy and hungry. And those are two things that everyone should be, happy and hungry. And going to the gym.ClosingChris, thank you so much. And next time in Miami, I’m going to swing by and grab a bite of food from you.Let’s do it. And I’ll take you to some of my favorite restaurants and we can grab a mojito while we’re at it. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Kat Kinsman knows a thing or two about restaurants. As the executive features editor at Food & Wine and host of the podcast Tinfoil Swans, which is coming back at the end of March, she has spent years telling the stories behind the people who cook, serve, and gather around the table. In this episode, she shares her Five Rules for Staying Present (and Delighted) at Dinner. They are simple in theory and surprisingly powerful in practice. Believe there is no better table than the one you’re sitting at. Say the nice thing out loud. Take a mental snapshot instead of reaching for your phone. Don’t feel obligated to post. And when the night ends, send the text that says you had a great time. It is a blueprint for getting more joy out of a meal and the people you share it with.I will admit this is something I struggle with. When you spend your life around restaurants and hospitality, it is easy to slip into work mode or get distracted by the next thing. Kat’s rules are a great reminder of why we sit down to eat in the first place. When I plan a dinner, it is almost always with the people I love the most. Friends, family, the people who make life feel a little bigger. Her approach pushes me to slow down, put the phone away, and actually live inside those moments. Because if you are lucky enough to be at a table with people you care about, there really is no better place to be.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.IntroductionHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I chat with executive feature editor at Food & Wine, the host of Tinfoil Swans, Kat Kinsman, who shares her five rules for staying present and delighted at dinner.She talks about how looking at your phone can leave you wanting more from a night out, to be open and honest about what you love, and that if you embrace this approach, the next meal out might be the best one you’ve ever had.So let’s get into the rules.Catching UpKat, it’s so good to see you. I believe the last time I was with you in the room, I was drinking a mint julep watching horses run the derby.Thanks for taking time to sit down and chat about the fire rules.Truly my pleasure. And I think I could use a julep, some burgoo, or a slush right now.That sounds very delicious.Being the executive features editor of Food & Wine and host of the Tinfoil Swans, when going out to dinner, do you bring a professional criteria with you at all times?Oh, hell no. It can become that busman’s holiday kind of thing. So much of what I edit and write about and care about is not about the food. Sure. It’s extremely people-centric. Unless I am on a particular mission, I’m there to be happy in a restaurant. Moreover, I’m happy about who I’m with. I’m not the person they deploy to go out to restaurants. I am lucky enough that I get to go out and just—The idea of just being at dinner, especially when it’s your profession, doesn’t always happen.No.How do you deal with that weight of having to eat out, especially when you’re scouting for best new restaurants when all you want to do is be eating tuna fish and crackers at home?I don’t go out very often. I’m such an ambivert that it takes a lot to get me out. Recently, I had almost a year after my husband had a heart attack, we really couldn’t go out to restaurants that much. It really reset why and how I go out to restaurants because we have to live within a certain amount of constraints.When I go, I go with tremendous intent for joy.I love that.Because I don’t often have to do it on the job, I can get things for my own pleasure. I just want to be open. I want to have a great time. Leaving the house is really difficult for me, sometimes slightly gore phobic. But once I bust out the door, I’m just thrilled I’m out there and I want to make the most of it that I possibly can.Memorable MealsIt being wintertime and heading into a cozy restaurant in New York City, there are few greater pleasures in life. And I know that you have lived a life of memorable meals and dinners. Looking back on them, which ones stand out the most?Fun thing, I just had the greatest restaurant meal of my life.Oh, well, then this should be easy.Causa in Washington DC. Have you been?Not yet, but a boy can dream from across the country.Carlos Delgado is just making absolute magic there. I got to town early. I decided to take myself out to dinner. Incredible. A lot of my friends are chefs. It’s not like they can go out on a Friday night super easily. So I was like, you know what, I’ve been hearing about this place, I’m gonna go.Sat down at the counter. From bite one, it’s a Peruvian tasting menu. Let’s go. It’s a tour of Peru and all the different regions of it. And I’m sitting there and I’m having this reconstructed oyster with Leche de Tigre. And I’m listening to Gangster’s Paradise. I’m drinking this absolute banger of a non-out cocktail that was based in the ferments that they’re making with kombucha.I’m just zenning out because I don’t have to think about anybody else’s pleasure but my own because I’m just by myself. Rare. The whole thing is being driven by somebody’s vision. The hospitality is absolutely incredible. Everybody’s on those headsets so it feels like pluribus I am carol and they are there for my pleasure.There could be worse things on a Friday night in DC.When I experience really good food or art or music or anything like that, I get this full body sensation.I understand that.Tasting menus, controversial or whatever. I think about the shock and awe that has gone into some of them that have been my favorite restaurant meals ever.Yeah.I feel really incredibly lucky. They’re so concentrated. They’re so thoughtful. With Carlos, he’s got such a point of view. He’s a nerd about this stuff. I love it.Being able to be so intentional and so excited about going out to dinner after all these years is very inspiring, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for staying present and delighted at dinner.The Five RulesRule 1 — There Is No Better Table Than the One You’re AtWe live in a world where new restaurants open up all the time in a way that when you’re keeping score or track of it, it could be overwhelming. Your rule number one talks about shifting that mindset and waiting for the right moment to go to a place. What’s your first rule?I am lucky enough that when I do have that intentionality and go out to dinner with people, I end up absolutely convinced there is no better place, no better table in the entire world than the one I’m at right then.I love that.It happens a lot of times at friends’ houses. It happens at restaurants. And I think about everything that crosses my feed all the time. This highly curated, all these restaurants, all these experiences, all these fancy kinds of things we can do.And I was like, no, this is exactly where I want to be. There’s nowhere better in the universe right now.And that’s not just me hyping myself up, even though things I love, I love very, very intensely. It’s important that I get to that state and that just keeps me at the table. Why not be happy with what I have right there?I share that same passion. When I love something, I love it so much and I want to tell people all about it. Or if I enjoy dining at someone’s house, I’m always asking when can we get together again, when can we do it again.Yes.And I know you’re supposed to play it cool, but that’s never been part of my personality, which ties directly into your rule number two.Rule 2 — Wear Your Heart on Your SleeveWear your heart on your sleeve.Is there any other way to do it?I dated people who use that as currency. They wouldn’t say I love you. They wouldn’t say the nice thing. No, thanks. No, you don’t do that.I am given to quite often if I’m feeling that thing about no more FOMO and thinking this is the best place I could be in the world. I say it out loud.Yeah.Because why the hell not? Why not say to the people at the table, I’m so glad you’re here with me and that we get to experience this together.I say it to the wait staff.I was at EMP some years back. I was having a ball. Our server was like, you’ve gone out of your way to say what a great time you’re having. Are you worried that I think you’re not?It’s like, hey, I love that we’ve established this dialogue here. I want you to know you’re doing a great job here.Say you love the thing. Say it’s delicious.I’d rather be warm than cool any day of the week.Rule 3 — Take a Mental SnapshotOnce you’ve gotten to the place that you want to be and you’ve realized that there’s no better seat in the room, the second part of that equation of really enjoying yourself is staying present.There’s no better way to get out of the moment than reaching to your pocket and pulling out that phone.No. No.And it’s tough because a lot of times content is currency. If I don’t have the evidence, did I really go?Your rule number three talks about how to avoid reaching for your phone when a plate hits the table.Take a mental snapshot.Because of professional hazard, I do have to whip out my phone sometimes and take a quick picture, but it’s more documentation.Of course.This actually goes back to there was a book that I read as I was getting married called The Conscious Bride. This would have been 20 years ago.It’s about stopping for a second and taking a snapshot with all of your senses about everything that’s going on around you.You don’t even have to let anybody know you’re doing this.Take that same thing you do with your phone and capture all of that and deliberately tell yourself, I’m going to remember this. How I feel. What are the sensations I’m having right now? What do things taste like? Who am I with?Consciously do that and lock it in. Put that on your reel in your head.You have to do it with intent so you can just come back to those because I definitely have those moments then when I’m really depleted, depressed, lonely, whatever it happens to be. And I go back into that, getting to experience it all over again.It’s just a really fun way to be.Rule 4 — Don’t Feel Obligated to PostThat idea of having these personal moments for yourself is really important because it does keep you wanting to go back out into the world to have dinners and try new things.That being said, sometimes you do take those photos, but that doesn’t mean you have to share them right away, which ties directly into your rule number four.Don’t post.I should maybe amend that. Don’t feel obligated to post right then.Yes.You’re still you. You still had the experience. You still did the thing. It’s not pics or it didn’t happen.Who are you trying to prove anything to?If you want to share it because you’re hyped on it and you want other people to have that joy as much, that’s beautiful. If you want to give a bump to the restaurant after you have left, of course.For so long, there’s been that feeling of obligation.The really great meals that I have and the best times where I’m connecting with people over this are times when I’m not pulling my phone out at all.I forget to.And it gets to the end of the meal and maybe I’m with somebody. Before we recorded, we were talking about Yassi Salik. Realize we had gotten to the end of the meal, had not taken a picture together.And that was because I was just so caught up in the joy of her presence, of the food, of the experience that we were having, where I just plain old forgot.And it was so freeing.The second I pull out my phone, it’s this Pandora’s box. I get too caught up in it. I doom scroll.But, you know, some things can just be for you.And that’s totally fine.Rule 5 — Text When You Get HomeThis idea of doing things for yourself and not having to prove you’re out in the world really is a lost art.Yeah.You mentioned the idea of really understanding that the people you’re with, the company you’re keeping at the table is exactly who you want to be with is a major part of your fifth and final rule.You should text on the way home and say you had a great time.Maybe it’s because I’m older. Maybe it’s because I haven’t had to date for a long time. I don’t care. Double text. I don’t care.Wear your heart on your sleeve because you never know when you’re going to get the chance to say that thing again.Be a sloppy, messy heart of a person.Let people know you had a great time with them and that you want to do it again.If I don’t text in, I’ll feel silly for having waited too long. And then it’ll be like a month or a year that I don’t respond because I’m embarrassed that I’ve waited so long.But just send the text.I’ve texted on the group thread while waiting in ballet.Oh, hell yeah.I’m sorry if my crime is that I told you I loved you too often.Oh, screw me.And that we had a great time at dinner again. And let’s find another date.Sorry. My bad.Where to Find KatKat, appreciate you wearing your heart on your sleeve and sharing it with everyone.If they want to read what you’re writing, if they want to listen to the podcast, or just see when you do go out to eat and you do post, which I’m sure has to hit a very high threshold, how can they follow you and see what you’re up to?On Instagram, it’s Kat Kinsman. Same on threads. On foodandwine.com. I’m pretty easy to find on there.The podcast, which is coming back at the end of March, is Tinfoil Swans, available anywhere you get your podcasts.Perfect timing. Look at us.Kat, so great to see you. And hopefully we can have a meal on or off the grid sometime soon.I’m going to text you in five minutes and tell you what a great time I had right here.Thank you so much. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, Darin Bresnitz sits down with Al Doyle, one of the musicians behind the sounds of Hot Chip & LCD Soundsystem, and the co-founder / co-designer of Relax and Enjoy Studio in Shoreditch, London. Al shares his Five Rules for Making Music You Like. The conversation moves from childhood piano experiments to the very different recording philosophies behind his two bands, and the thinking that goes into producing music that lasts. Along the way, he talks about the discipline of listening, the power of simplicity, and the confidence it takes to trust your own instincts in the studio.What makes Al’s rules interesting is that they apply to so much more than making music. They are about creating anything. Writing, painting, cooking, filmmaking, building a business, hosting a dinner. The mechanics are different, but the mindset is the same. Start with something you actually like. Keep the structure simple enough so the idea can breathe. Spend more time paying attention than constantly tinkering. Learn enough about your craft that you can rely on yourself when things get complicated. And when the crowd pushes you toward something safe or expected, sometimes the best move is to lean the other direction and see what happens. Creativity is rarely about doing more. Most of the time it is about knowing when to stop and trust the thing you already made.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptIntroductionHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.It is always a pleasure when I get to sit down with today’s guest, Al Doyle, who is a member of both Hot Chip and LCD Sound System and a designer and owner of Relax and Enjoy Studio in Shoreditch, London.He’s here today to share his five rules for making music you like. He talks about the importance of listening and not changing too much, the fundamentals of being both ambitious and self-sufficient, and that sometimes doing nothing is the best way to make something happen.He shares some amazing insider stories about making music, the different approach to recording from his two bands, and we share a few laughs about what really goes into making music that you like.So let’s get into the rules.Getting StartedAl, it is always a pleasure when we have the chance to make time and chat with each other. Thanks for coming to me live from the studio.You’re very, very welcome. Yeah, I’m sitting in front of my upright piano. Really bringing class to the show. It’s all I can do to not start playing some jazzy chords in front of you, so you have to appreciate my restraint.I also appreciate that you’ve been making music almost your entire life. Do you remember the moment when you first made something that you actually liked?Yeah, I was playing piano from when I was four or five years old, and I definitely remember hammering out some stuff on the piano that I enjoyed going back to, really raucous, hammering, childlike piano music.I love it. In terms of actual songs that I can remember... I fall out of love with things that I’ve made very, very quickly, I think. When you’re actually making something, the moment of creation is so emphatically all-encompassing and scintillating, and then leave it 20 minutes like, oh my god, now I’ve got to do some actual work to put this together. It just sucks all the joy out of it again. It’s something that I’m battling with every day.You’ve been lucky enough to also record and create music and go through that process all over the world. Is there something you’re looking for in a space or an environment to be creative? Or is it different vibe for different project?Making my own studio was an answer to that very question. There was lots of places that I’ve been to that were very close to what my ideal recording space would be.Obviously, DFA was a huge thing for me when I first came to New York City. Philippe Zadar’s studio in Paris, which is called Motorbass, was a very, very inspiring space. There’s another amazing studio that belongs to the keyboard player in Jamiroquai called Angelic, which is a country retreat studio on a farm. Those kind of places have been on my mind.Being able to see all these different studios and knowing what worked and didn’t work, I have to imagine fed into what went into building Relax and Enjoy, which is the studio that you built with James. Why was it so important for you to create a space for other musicians to make music?There is an indulgent thing that we do in Hot Chip and in LCD, which is basically write music in a studio. A lot of bands, they will have to do some kind of writing elsewhere in their bedrooms or like the way that Hot Chip used to do.The space can be very inspiring for making music if you have the time to allow the instruments to show you where to go. We’ll just go to a synthesizer that we’ve just bought or we’re in another studio that has something that we’ve never seen before and just by the act of trying out that instrument learning how it works you will inevitably write a song through that process because it’s just this voyage of discovery with the instrument brings up stuff that you end up recording and can be the kind of seed of an idea.When people come in to this place that’s one of the things that we want for them especially younger kids that maybe only have ever seen some of this stuff as plugins and software versions or whatever they’re like oh my god you’ve got a real csa team it’s like oh yeah here it is iI love that.So immediately they get their hands on it and start using it in a way that we would never have imagined. And that’s actually inspiring to us. And then the whole thing feeds into itself. Everything’s turned on. Everything’s able to be recorded at any time. It’s supposed to be a little playground.Creating that playground, having all the toys and tools and the actual approach of making music that you enjoy and have a good track record of making is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for making music you like.Rule One: Make What You LikeThe very first rule...It’s so simple, but people, myself included, always seem to ignore it when they’re getting into the creative process. What’s your rule number one?This rule was something that I actually came up with talking to Nick Millhiser from LCD because he’s also a producer and we were just talking about working with other bands. I can tell that they’re trying to get somewhere to something and there’s a level of frustration andThe rule is anyway, make what you like. Try to remember what is it that you’re making that is in any way similar to something that you actually like.People come in here, they always want to add stuff. And I was like, OK, tell me anything that you like that sounds like this.Yeah.And I will happily pursue this way of working because people come in with their influences like I want it to sound like Prince or I want it to sound like a can or whatever. What you’re making sounds nothing like that.Take that little step back.I was working with somebody the other day, the drums started to sound like breakbeat or something like some kind of trip hop thing. I was like, guys, I know that you don’t like this music. Why are we doing that? Why are we here?It’s a question that really stops people and makes them reconsider in a slightly less confrontational way than maybe I’ve just described.Rule Two: Stick to a VisionPart of your guide as a producer and as someone who’s been through the creative process before is showing people how to keep their perspective and not get distracted by trends or things that they might want in the moment, but won’t last in a long time, which makes up a big part of rule number two.Stick to a vision of popular art as a generosity of effects on a simple frame.So that’s a quotation from Clive James. He was actually talking about Louis Armstrong, but that quotation is about Big Spiderbeck, who was very beloved of Louis Armstrong and him talking about his style of playing quite austere style as opposed to slightly more florid playing from louis armstrong.It just really got me thinking about that in terms of music but also in terms of art in general specifically he describes it as being popular art so i’m not really necessarily talking about the deepest kind of art sure this idea that you haveAnd in elaborate frame, like the pop song, this contained little space in which to put your idea across.Yes.And then within that, you get to do all of your special effects.That has really stood with me as a framework for what all of this stuff is. You’re not trying to get too complicated. You’re not trying to change things. this mechanism around your work you’re just trying to give something to someone again that word generosity within there I thought was really important because it’s this idea of no this is something to be enjoyed something where I’m trying to give something to the people that are listening to me I had that as a phrase that was always in the back of my head when I was making thingsLike verse chorus verse as i’ve heard it sung before.Yeah yeah yeah exactly.Rule Three: Listen, Don’t ChangeA lot of times when i listen to the art of making music you’ll hear with some of the most famous songs is that it wrote itself in 10 minutes it just came to me in a dream and it was done.Yeah.Being able to pull something from the ether and then sit back and just let it be yeah is a fundamental of your rule number three.Rule three, listen, don’t change.This is something that I learned for sure from James Murphy. Also, I believe that he himself learned from Marcus Lampkin, whose artist’s name is S**t Robot.Basically, hardship. Everybody goes into a room. Everyone’s playing all the time. Just this absolute deluge of great ideas.I go into the studio with James and we will sit around for the whole day and work on the sound of a woodblock.Of course. I believe it.Just these two different ways of working. But I really recently have been feeling as though the correct way to work is to work on that ratio, work on the ratio of listening to versus adding. And you should be doing 10 times more listening than you are making changes or adding stuff.And when I was with Marcus Lampkin, he actually does this more than James. He’ll just sit there, he’ll listen and listen and listen and listen. And then he’ll be like, we need to do this thing to this song. And it’s like, oh my God, dude, you nailed it. Cracked it.Yeah.And sometimes something is just fine as it is. And you’ve got to have that strength to just leave it as it is.The other very instructive story that I had with regard to this was Pete Shelley working with Martin Russian. He just left the Buzzcocks on his first solo thing that he did. And he had this song, Homosapien. You know this song?Mm-hmm.He basically had what he called the demo of that song and he brought it to Martin Russian. And Martin Russian took it to the studio and he played it. And he had Pete Shelley with him there and he’s like, I just need to listen to it again.And he played it again. And then he played it 20 times in a row. And then he just said, yeah, that’s fine. You should just release it just like that.I love that. That is just such a cool story because it’s this godlike producer and he’s like, no, I don’t want to touch this. This is great. And it was a massive hit, you know.There’s so many times that little voice in his head is like, you’ve got to do something, but actually you don’t always.Rule Four: Be Self-SufficientYou can go to another level by being able to work on your own music, produce your own projects, and be able to have the confidence within yourself to know that when you go out on the road or play a show or build your own studio, you can really blow other people out of the water, which is a big part of your rule number four.Be ambitious enough to be self-sufficient and be self-sufficient enough to make other people scared.With LCD, we would try and turn up to places with everything. There was nothing that we relied upon other people for. Even when we didn’t have the level of crew that we had, there was enough knowledge within that group of people that we could do anything that needed to be done and fix any problem in audio, deal with keyboard. People deal with the promoters, do all that kind of stuff.You’ve got to know that there’s going to be a time after that, and that comes down to your ambition, to know that it won’t last forever. But in the meantime, you’ve got to actually do it.Yeah. No one’s going to do it for you.And if you don’t do it, then you will not be afforded any respect.If you actually can go above that and be so self-sufficient that everyone’s like, oh, whoa, you guys actually know more than us.So...And then that’s when people get, I mean, scared is kind of the wrong word, but it’s having that level of respect that borders on reverence.I think that’s a lot to do with James’s own personal aura. And also just because he genuinely is the most savant level engineer that I’ve ever encountered.Rule Five: Contrarianism Can Be Your SaviorBeing self-sufficient. Having that ambition, sticking to a vision of making what you really want to make, really bubbles up to creating work that you actually believe in.And your fifth and final rule talks about the importance of sticking to your guns, especially when you’re making something that the mainstream might not like.What’s your rule number five?If in doubt, turn on the herter. Contrarianism can be your savior.Sometimes things just go wrong. Sometimes people are just not on your side and you’re playing to the wrong people.In that situation, there will be a very strong instinct that you have to do whatever it is you think those people might like, but don’t do that.The thing to do in that situation is find the thing that you enjoy doing that they won’t. Otherwise, you’re just on a hiding to nothing.Don’t try and second guess your audience, I think is the deeper part of what that is.If there’s something that you enjoy, even if that thing is busting out incredibly piercing knife-like white noise at people get after it then go for that you’re guaranteed to make at least yourself happy whatever else you do you’re not guaranteed to make them happy you know.Alexis is amazing at that he’ll just happily just play the most intimate music against the people that are just so shouting over him and he just continued to do that has this just level of belief that I absolutely love and it’s not something that I have personally but it’s something that I in a weird way admire and want to have for myself a little bit more so that’s why I wanted to make it part of the rules.ClosingAl, I appreciate your rules and all the music that you have shared with the world. I know that you’re hitting the road this year.We are on the road with LCD. We’re going to be touring America. Have a look and see if we’re playing anywhere near you.Looking forward to having you back in LA. It was great to see you last time and can’t wait to hear some of this music that you like so much once again.No problem. It’s my pleasure talking to you, Darin. Thanks for talking to me. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with chef and restaurateur Fermín Núñez to, who shares his Five Rules for a Proper 48 Hour Trip. He talks about traveling with purpose, from taking the earliest flight to packing light to fully disconnecting once you land. We get into why having a clear reason for going, whether it’s a specific restaurant, a soccer game, or a neighborhood you want to understand, changes the entire experience. This is a conversation about using limited time well, finding inspiration through food and place, and returning home sharper than when you left.What resonates most with me is the idea of traveling with intention and having an anchor. I’ve learned that if I don’t build a trip around one meaningful plan, a reservation, a game, or a person I want to see, the time slips away. But if I overfill the schedule, I miss the magic. The balance is having one strong reason to go and leaving the rest open. That structure creates freedom. It allows you to be present, to wander, to notice something unexpected. That’s when a quick trip stops feeling like an escape and starts feeling like a reset.Chef Fermín Núñez of Austin’s Suerte and Este teams up with Jorge Gaviria, the founder of Masienda and bestselling author of MASA, to bring their combined time in professional kitchens and on the streets of Mexico to the page in Vitamina T. They understand that these dishes are not static. They evolve. They travel. They adapt. And here, they show you how to cook them with clarity and confidence at home.TranscriptIntroductionHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.It is always a pleasure to see and sit down with today’s guest, chef and restaurateur Fermín Núñez, whose restaurant and bar in Austin are some of my favorite places to hit when I’m in town. He shares his five rules for a proper 48-hour trip.We share the same love of getting up early and getting on the road, the key balance to having an anchor for your trip but not filling up all of your time, and how disconnecting on the road allows you to come back home recharged.It’s a really great conversation for anyone looking for insights about how to travel with intention and how if you have a busy schedule to make getting away matter the most. So let’s get into the rules.Sitting Down in AustinFermín, always so good to see you. Always a pleasure when we get some time to chat. Thank you for sitting down for the show.Thanks for having me right back at you. Always a pleasure to get to chat a little bit with each other.Whenever I’ve come to Austin, I’ve had such a great time traveling around, hanging out, eating with you, getting to see the city. And there really is this ideal of what it’s like to travel like a chef or be inside the restaurant world because you have all these access to the hidden gems. How much have you found that to be true in your travels?It’s super true because that’s the number one reason why I travel. I travel to places that I want to eat. I’m also very lucky to be in a place where I get to do that. When I get a little bit of brain farts of ideas of what to do next, that is one of my favorite ways to do is get out of my own head, see what other people in other states are doing, and then come back and get right after it.There is that idea of traveling for inspiration. You’ve gone out and you’ve had so many great meals. When do you realize when something’s gone from a really great bite to something that’s inspired you to create something in your own kitchen?Man, I have a few of those. That’s what I really like to mimic at the restaurant. Recreate what I felt, not what I tasted. A lot of the food that you see in the restaurants, one of those dishes most well-known, este is Camarones El Ricas, which are named after a seafood restaurant in Monterrey. which is also a landlocked place, but they also enjoy Maniskas just like we do here in Austin. I enjoyed it so much that I wanted to make my own version of it and not hide behind, oh, this is where I got it from. No, tell people, if you like this one, you’re going to like the ones in Monterey way better. Makes you want to go out there and be like, Like maybe I got to go to Monterey and check this place out, which is also exciting.Making Time to TravelTaking that time, giving yourself permission to go on these trips, you alone have three different businesses that you cook at and oversee. How do you give yourself permission to take time off to go travel? How would you apply that advice to someone who’s feeling they can’t find that space in their life to do the same?The best way to look at those things is realize that you don’t need a lot to do much. I’m very lucky to have a team of people that allow me to take a step back from the restaurants and come back as long as I give them back that energy that they gave me by going away.I love that. I’ve been doing this for a while. I used to also have this mentality. You’re going to have two days off. Most of the time they’re going to be back to back. How do you make the most out of that? I always love traveling. I don’t want to go to Philly and just do what all the touristy things do. I want to go to Philly and feel what is a normal Tuesday they’re like and pretend it’s just my day off in a different city.That’s such a great approach and such a great way to look at traveling in a way that isn’t just hitting the well-known spots, but really going with intention, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for a proper 48-hour trip.Rule #1: Take the Early FlightAs I have talked with people, I have learned that I travel differently than others. What I love about your first rule is that you and I share the same approach to getting up early and getting after it. What’s your rule number one?Take the early flight. Yes. If you only have so many hours, you have to make the most of it. And the thing that’s going to be a little bit pity about that is you waking up a little bit early. I think we have bigger problems in life than that. And you should be very lucky to think that that is the only thing that you’re stressed about.In Mexico, we have a saying, el sol sale para todos. The sun rises for everybody. It’s what you do with that day that makes you different than the rest. If you don’t know how to take a nap on a plane, I’m not saying that’s a personal problem, but get up, get to the airport, skip that coffee, get right in your seat, and go see the world.A lot of times you can look at people’s posts on social media and it seems very effortless. We’re on the road. And I believe that it can be. Sometimes to get that easygoing, free-flowing mentality, when you hit the road, you need to go out with intention.Rule #2: Have a PurposeRule number two, have a purpose. Everything you see in social media is not real. Agreed. They only show you the parts that are exciting for people to watch.Having a purpose when you’re only going to be there for such a small amount of time, it’s key making it feel like you’re there for a reason rather than feeling a little naughty going for the spur of the moment, which is also fun.I’m very driven by food, so I always have a purpose of, I want to go eat at this restaurant, or I want to check out this place out. But I’ve also started doing a little bit of those trips in regards to, I’m going to go to Vegas for 48 hours, watch a soccer game, and then make the other things work around that. It’s always important to have a purpose of why you’re going there, achieving it, and then the rest will just fall into place.Having that other side of the coin with one side being the anchor and the other side being open is really important to let the unexpected happen and to find something that you may have not known was the purpose of your trip, but ultimately becomes the thing you remember the most.Rule #3: Plan, But Don’t Over Plan Too MuchPlan, but don’t over plan too much. Leaving room for a little bit of flexibility is key. Remembering that you’re there for a certain amount of time and not for a week, it’s humbly impossible to do everything you would do in a week into two days.have breakfast and that’s it don’t push it you don’t need to have three different breakfasts if anything that’s a good excuse for you to want to be able to come back to the place that you are just there for 48 hoursI think having those limitations knowing that you can’t hit everything is actually freeing in a lot of way. The same goes with being prepared for what you’re going to bring there. There are many times when I’ve gone for a short trip and I am embarrassed by having a full suitcase and a backpack. Paring down can actually free you up.Rule #4: Pack the Day Before, Pack LightPack the day before, but it’s also important to pack light. I think the only thing you can actually overpack is underwear. How many times do we overpack underwear and feel like we’re going to s**t ourselves three times in the script? And guess what? It actually never happens, but better safe than sorry.Having three different kinds of shoes for the 48 hours because you think you’re going to go to the gym and work out. After you do this a few times, you realize that you’re not going to doIt’s always better to have room in your luggage and fill it with things that are exciting that will remind you of the trip than to bring things on a luggage just to carry them around and bring back and be like, oh, I guess I didn’t even need that.Having that room also allows you to bring back specialty ingredients, Mentos, other things that will be a constant tchotchke on your shelf and a touchstone for the time that you went away.Rule #5: DisconnectYour fifth and final rule talks about the importance of when you go away, really be away. Home will be home when you get there. Being present when you’re away is the real key to a 48-hour trip. What’s your rule number five?Number five is disconnect. I do this for inspiration, but I also do this to be able to come back a better chef than I left for those two days and be the person my team needs me. That is super important when traveling. You travel for yourself.I’ve always wanted to eat at Sahave. You have all these places that you say you always want to go. If you plan in advance, little bit sneaky in the internet, you can find really cheap ways to go to places and make things happen.I went to Philly and it was also so amazing to be able to be present with my partner at the time to a city that I’d never been to. She had been there once. We were just walking around making stuff happen in between dinner. It was the most present I’ve been in a while and I really enjoyed it.I love that. You didn’t travel to make content. All the people that go to shows and film them, how often are you actually seeing that video? The most important part about being in a trip like this, being present is more valuable than being like on social media. Remembering why you chose to do this trip, it’s always a nice reminder of how to be at the time and place that you’re in. It’s amazing and it’s definitely a gift that you can bring back to your life at home and to your kitchen.Where to Follow AlongFor me, if people want to come visit you at any of your three spots in Austin or see where you’re going out on the road when you take these 48 hour trips, how can they follow along with your adventures?For the restaurants, they can follow along at Suerte ATX, Este ATX, and Bartotti. For my personal stuff, you can get a little behind the scenes of what we do in the kitchen, what I do outside of the kitchen, and every time I travel at Chief Nunez.If I’m posting that I’m traveling in a place, it most likely already happened because according to my fifth rule, I was disconnecting being present at the place that I was at that time. You don’t want to be stuck in your DMs with people trying to get you to go to all these places.Can’t wait to get back to Austin. Can’t wait to have another meal with you real soon. Thank you. Hope that sooner rather than later. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Today’s guest is Maxine Scharf, the culinary creator and recipe developer behind Maxi’s Kitchen. She shares her Five Rules for Turning Your Passion Into Your Career, and what goes into making the leap, staying consistent, and creating work people genuinely want to bring into their homes. We talk about the moment her career pivoted, what it actually takes to build momentum online, and how a passion project turns into a real business. We also get into her first cookbook, Maxie’s Kitchen: Easy Go-To Recipes to Make Again and Again, out March 3rd, 2026.There’s a point in every creative life where the idea stops feeling hypothetical and starts feeling like a dare. Betting on yourself sounds romantic until you’re the one doing the betting. It’s uncomfortable, uncertain, sometimes terrifying. But when the passion is real, the bigger risk is often standing still. Belief is the spark, dedication is the structure, consistency is the engine, hard work is the daily proof. That combination doesn’t guarantee success, but it gives you something better, a real shot.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptFive Rules for the Good LifeIntroductionHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with culinary creator, recipe developer, and the creative force behind Maxie’s Kitchen, Maxine Scharf. She’s here to share her five rules for turning your passion into your career. She talks about the importance of just getting started, how consistency is key, and that the bigger your dream, the better you can get. It’s a great conversation for anyone who’s looking to kickstart their own creative project or grow their followers. She also shares some of the stories and inspiration behind her first cookbook, Maxie’s Kitchen, easy go-to recipes to make again and again, which comes out March 3rd, 2026. So let’s get into the rules.Opening ConversationMeeting MaxineMaxine, it is so nice to meet you. Congratulations on your first book coming out early March, 2026.Thank you so much, Darin. Excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me on.Oh my God. My absolute pleasure.Career Turning PointThe Layoff & The LeapThree years ago, back in 2022, you were laid off, something that a lot of people are dealing with now, and started diving into culinary creation full-time. What gave you that confidence to get in the kitchen and then to also share what you were doing?So I had actually been sharing content online for a couple of years when I had gotten laid off. I had built a modest following. I had always said that my goal eventually, like my dream was to be able to focus on maxi’s kitchen full-time but I was always too afraid to take the plunge and like quit my corporate job to do it. Of course when I got laid off obviously I was really upset that day it was like a gut punch crying completely shocked been there.But then the afternoon of that day, I started to get this little internal pull or feeling of, hey, maybe this is my chance to chase my dream and focus on the cooking stuff full time. I told my husband, almost feeling embarrassed when I told him that that was what I was thinking. And he was really supportive.The next day I woke up and I filmed three recipes and basically just started running as fast as I can chasing that dream. I’ve been doing it ever since.From Passion to ProfessionRealizing It Became a CareerFrom that day after, we’ll call that day one if you’d like.Yeah.Was there a moment when you realized that this passion of yours had become your profession?It started when I was able to focus all of my time on cooking and creating content and sharing videos. My account started to gain momentum pretty quickly and I started seeing videos start to go viral and I felt like I had a lot of momentum that kept me going.About two months into focusing on Maxi’s Kitchen full time, I started having managers reach out. If you’re not familiar with managers in the content creator space, they basically help you pitch you to brands, help with the monetization and some of the high level strategy of your business.Of course.It was a couple months in when I met a manager who I absolutely loved and had just this immediate feeling of, oh, I need to work with this person. And I feel like it was signing with her that made me realize, okay, wow, I think I’m actually doing this full time because now she’s going to help me build a business around the cooking stuff.That’s so amazing to have that turning point work out for you. I don’t want to say relatively quickly because it’s years in the making overnight, as I’ve always found.That’s such a good way to put it.The CookbookShaping the First BookWhat’s so exciting is that you’ve been able to build this organically, you focus it on full time, and now you have your first cookbook coming out in March of 2026, Maxi’s Kitchen, easy go-to recipes to make again and again. With so much content, so many recipes to pull from, how did you whittle it down? What is the story you want to tell with your first book?When thinking about the concept for my first cookbook, right, there’s so many different ways you could go with it or different areas you could focus.Absolutely.When thinking about the people who actually cook my recipes and the people who I’m serving, a lot of my audience, they’re busy, they really just need to get dinner on the table for their family. They’re not professional chefs.The biggest problem is people don’t actually have their go to recipes.Yes.When you have your go-to recipes, and that’s the three to five recipes that you have in your arsenal that your family loves, that you feel really confident making, when you have those down, then cooking starts to become really fun and relaxing and enjoyable because you know what’s in your toolbox.Really, the goal of this book is to help people find the recipes that are gonna be a part of their rotation that they can master and feel really comfortable with, just things to make again and again.The Five RulesRule Number One — Just StartIt’s so incredible that you’ve been able to take it from a hobby into how you run your life, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for turning your passion into your career. And the first rule in many ways was kickstarted for you with you being laid off from your job, but is really something that people should keep in mind when they want to get rolling in their own project or passion. What’s your first rule?My first rule is just start. It doesn’t need to be perfect. While the being laid off was such a catalyst towards working on Maxi’s Kitchen full time.Yeah.I actually had shared my first video three or four years before that.Incredible.It took me a year to actually muster up the courage to share that first video.Sure. Sure.I used to share on just my personal instagram story clips of my mom and i cooking together and i noticed that a lot of my friends just loved that content and they were always responding to my story and i started having a feeling oh people are interested in this but then for a year i sat on the idea of putting content out there and starting a blog. At first i was thinking oh i want it to be me and my mom i want it to be more youtube style where we’re talking to camera.But the problem was I lived in New York at the time and she was still in California. So that wasn’t happening.There was one low key weekend, wasn’t doing too much. I was just cooking for me and my husband. I was making meatballs in an Italian sauce. And I was like, you know, why don’t I just see if I could film something on my phone and just see if I could put a video together.If you look back at the beginning of the road for me, the video that I put out was, I don’t want to say horrible compared to the way they look now, but it was just very raw.Totally fine though.Yeah, it wasn’t perfect at all. I didn’t have any tripods. I was just holding the phone with my hand. But you have to start somewhere in order to get better.Rule Number Two — Consistency is KeyOnce you get started, your second rule, it’s the piece of advice that I give to everyone who asks about starting a podcast or doing something creatively and putting it out into the world. To me, it’s my number one rule, but I can understand that getting started has to happen for this one to click into place. What is your rule number two?My rule number two is consistency is key.Yes. Yes.This applies to so many things in life in general to be successful, especially when looking at building a career in social media. As a content creator, consistency is important.I once saw Adam Mosseri, who is the head of Instagram. He said, the right number of posts is whatever you can stay consistent with.Agree.So if that’s one post a month, do one post a month. If that’s two per week, do two per week. He was basically saying it’s better to pick something that you can be consistent with versus posting five times in one week and then going silent for the rest of the month.That always really stuck with me. And I do think finding a manageable cadence that you can stick to is really important.Finding that cadence also gives a certain amount of reliability with the community that you’re engaging with because they know when to expect it, they know what to expect, it becomes part of their routine.For sure.Rule Number Three — Engage With Your CommunityThis allows you to enact your rule number three. The rule number three is engage with your community and connect with others in your field.I would comment and like and just really engage with cooking creators or food accounts. I would actually even reach out to aggregator accounts that would post other people’s recipe videos.Every time you like or comment on another person’s post, you’re making somewhat of a connection with them. And then you’re also leaving footprints back to your own account, which is really helpful.In terms of connecting with others in your field, that was critical for me when I got laid off. I made a point to set up calls with every single person I knew who was doing something similar to what I was hoping to do.Just getting all of those different perspectives was really helpful in helping me get my footing when I was first starting out doing it full time.Rule Number Four — Follow the InspirationOnce you get the ball rolling, you get content going. Sometimes you start going down a path that wasn’t the original intent. Sometimes that’s good and you discover new things. But as you build a community, they are going to expect a certain type of content from you. Staying focused is a big part of your rule number four.My rule number four is to follow the inspiration. Sometimes your brain can become very wired to producing content or recipes that you know resonate and that you know perform well with your audience. Of course that is important and that still is something that i think about core to my business.Something that I’ve learned to tap into more is actually just following my intuition, following the inspiration with the recipes that I create.There was a book that my friend got me for my birthday called The Creative Act by Rick Rubin.I don’t know if you’re familiar with it.Of course.That actually really helped shift my mindset. He talks a lot about how all creative ideas come from a source, kind of a spiritual approach. He says, when you get a pull by a creative idea, that means that it’s that idea’s time to come into the universe.I love that so much.So I really try to trust that as much as possible.It was so fun working on the cookbook because every single recipe in the book came from a day of inspired thought. And there was never a point where I felt like I had to force creativity.I was able to have fun with it and really just follow the inspiration.Rule Number Five — Dream Big & Have a Long-Term VisionHaving that inspiration and the confidence to share your ideas with the world when they’re ready is so important. Your fifth and final rule takes all of your daily work, that long road of determination, and puts it together for a successful career. What’s your rule number five?My fifth rule is dream big and have a long-term vision.I’m a big believer in manifestation, the fact that you need to see and believe something in your own mind before it becomes a reality on the outside or in the real world.Actually, a couple months after I got laid off and started working on Maxi’s Kitchen full time, I created a vision board.Yes.On that vision board, it had hitting a million followers on Instagram. It had writing a cookbook. It had hitting 100K on YouTube.All of those have actually come true already. And then there’s a few other things on there that I hope will come true.That was really helpful. I put it up in my closet. Every time when I was getting dressed, I would see it.You’ve really got to believe it in order to achieve it.Where to Find Maxie’s KitchenMaxine, it seems like you have achieved it. If anybody wants to order the book, check along with content created directly from the book, where can they go? How can they get involved?My Instagram is at maxiskitchen, M-A-X-I-S kitchen. That’s the best place to follow for all the updates, but I’m also on TikTok and YouTube with the same username.And then maxiskitchen.com is where you can find more of my recipes and newsletter.For the cookbook specifically, check out mkcookbook.com.ClosingIncredible. Well, I’m looking forward to holding my very own copy. Good luck on the tour. Good luck with everything. And congrats on achieving your vision.Thank you so much, Darin. It was so fun to come on the pod. I appreciate it. Hoping to meet you in person at sometime soon. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Matt Rodbard, Editor-In-Chief of Taste, the co-host of This Is Taste podcast, and his sub-stack, Food Time with Matt Rodbard, which is required reading if you care about what’s actually happening in food right now. Matt shares his Five Rules for a Food Writer’s Diet, from dialing in your relationship with alcohol, to balancing dining out with cooking at home, to traveling like a journalist, to permitting yourself to call simple meals “cooking.” We also get into coffee as a daily practice, the kind of ritual that sets the tone before the day starts moving too fast.I love sitting down with Matt because the conversation always lands in that sweet spot between fun, useful, and insider whisperings. We can yap, we can talk scene, we can talk craft, and somehow it always ends with something I always think back on after we part. When food is both your profession and your personal driver, the line between work and pleasure gets blurry fast. Matt is great at naming the difference between mindless consumption and intentional living. Eating and drinking with intention is not about restriction, it’s about clarity. It’s about supporting restaurants, taking care of your body, staying present in the room, and building routines that make the whole ecosystem, your work, your relationships, your energy, actually sustainable.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.IntroHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I sit down with one of my favorite people to talk about the culinary community with, Matt Rodbard, who is the Editor-In-Chief of Taste, the co-host of This Is Taste podcast, and his sub-stack, Food Time with Matt Rodbard, is must-reading for anyone who wants insider insights for the food scene. He shares his five rules for a food writer’s diet. and talks about the importance of dining out versus cooking at home, that when traveling, how to get the most out of your adventures, and that by having a preferred coffee practice in the morning is the best way to ensure a fantastic day. I love any time that I get to sit down with Matt. It’s always filled with a fun conversation, a professional take on cooking, and some great takeaway tips for anyone who’s looking to get the most out of life when it comes to food. So let’s get into the rules.Catching UpMatt, it is always a pleasure to see you. I knew that we were going to get a late start because we were just yapping away before we even hit record. Welcome to the show.It’s always good to chat with you. I know we were definitely talking about... Oh, no, we’re going to cut that out. But yes, we were having a very polite conversation about the scene out here.I’ve known you for decades now. We ran in similar food circles in New York, and we’ve gotten to spend some time together in LA. You’ve been working in the food media industry for 20 years. Do you remember your salad days and those first few meals of eating out?One of my first food stories was in 2005. I was working at a men’s magazine and I was working with consumer electronics and gadgets. And I took this egg McMuffin maker. Oh yeah. I took it to a restaurant called Chanterelle in Tribeca. Legendary place. Legendary. Run by David Waltock was the chef. I took the egg McMuffin maker there and had him test it out, which is cool. He had some funny thoughts. We wrote a little funny thing. And that was like my first real food media piece, which was 22 years ago.Memorable MealsI’m sure with such a long and illustrious career and you’ve traveled the world for not just taste, but for also your writings, your book, Korea World. Do you remember one meal that stands out that only would have happened because of your experience in this line of work?From Korea world, Dookie Hong and I wrote that book together. And we were in Korea for that book specifically three times. We were outside Gwangju. We had this meal. I’ll tell you a couple of things about it. First, it was like a beck bong, 30 or 40 dishes laid out communal. I don’t drink alcohol. During the shoot, I was the only one not drinking. Yeah. My man, Dookie, had a few drinks. Everyone else got super f*****g s**t-based. Wow. It’s very traditional. We’re sitting on the floor. It was just pure joy to see everyone kind of tipsy. We were hosted by a wonderful Beck Soju maker, and she just started pouring these drinks and kept pouring and pouring and pouring. I just really loved that. The food, of course, was incredible. It was mostly local produce and a lot of like small fermentation dishes. Those are the kind of situations where I only could have gotten into that room with the work I do.It’s so amazing. And I think that’s the addictive part to this line of work is getting access to those rooms and to having all these incredible meals. The other side of that same coin is that at some point your body gets older and you get older. When did you realize that you maybe needed more of a balanced approach eating out for work and being on the road?Did it start with a conversation with my doctor? Like a hard conversation at the age of 30, which is 15 years ago. Perhaps. Perhaps that was it. What really started me on the journey of sorts towards thinking a little better about what I was eating was when I stopped drinking in 2015. I just felt like at the time I was just drinking too much. It was affecting my work. It was affecting my personal relationships. And it wasn’t a falling down drunk moment. People around me were dying. Josh Ozersky was a friend of mine. He died. I literally saw him the night he died at the James Beard Awards. It was the night before. And he looked really great. His spirits were super high. Also, I didn’t like the way the interactions that I was having with people in the industry at parties or at events when I’d had a couple cocktails. And remember, this is a decade ago. We’re like, let’s have a corpse reviver and then have a green point and then maybe have a fourth or fifth classic cocktail because everyone was so down with the classic cocktail revival at the time. And I wrote a lot about alcohol. I felt, of course, hungover the next morning. I felt, did I have meaningful conversations with these people? Or was it just a matter of me being drunk and trying to be funny? And to me, it had taken a toll. Either someone’s going to tell you that your cholesterol is higher than a normal individual, or you’re going to wake up a morning saying, I don’t like the way that I feel.That really makes you think about how you want to approach, in many ways, what is a professional world when you go out to eat and drink, which is why I’m so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for a food writer’s diet.Rule 1: Don’t Drink Much in Your 30s and Chill in Your 40sNow, I know you just touched on this. Everyone is going to come to some reckoning with themselves when it comes to drinking alcohol. Your first rule gives a little bit more of a nuanced approach if you don’t want to stop cold turkey. What’s your rule number one?Rule number one is don’t drink much in your 30s and chill in your 40s. The language is intentionally vague. I’m not trying to be prescriptive here. I’m not saying don’t drink in your 40s. I’m saying basically in your 30s, you’ve got to really watch your consumption. Be aware of what alcohol does to you. You know, learn in your 30s, earn in your 40s. That’s a long time saying. So I think in the 30s, you should be really absorbing what’s around you. You should be finding mentorship, all that. Alcohol can really stop you in your tracks. As you enter your 40s, I’m just saying just chill. Just be chill with your relationship with alcohol. Many people maybe don’t drink at all or drink one day a week. And I think in your 40s, you’re going to actually see a lot, a lot, a lot of results as you really curtail your drinking. You’re setting yourself up for the rest of your life. You want to be healthy. You want to be in a good spot. And your 40s sets that up.Rule 2: Dine Out More, Cook the MostA lot of the times that approach to drinking can be affected of where you are dining, whether it’s at home or whether you’re out and about where you feel comfortable or where you’re in control. And your approach to your rule number two can help you find that balance, not just in drinking, but eating and saving money as well.100%. Rule number two, dine out more, cook the most. Preach it. Two things are here and they’re in direct opposition, kind of a puzzle, right? Here’s what I’m saying. You should dine out and support restaurants. You should learn about food. 100%. You should go out as much as humanly possible for your budget, be it one day a week, two day a week, three days a week, or more. It’s important. And really, food writer’s diet is a larger ethic I live by. And it doesn’t just have to do with what I’m actually consuming. It’s about the diet being how you consume food in your life. Everything about food. Yeah. Media is part of your diet. Recipes, health and wellness. That’s all part of the diet related to food. Through the years of being a food writer, I’ve definitely figured out that if I go out to restaurants more, I’m just going to absorb all these things better. But cook the most. If you’re eating out and you’re dining on your budget, balance that with cooking meals for yourself. We could talk all day about what cooking means. And it certainly doesn’t mean following a recipe from a cookbook and spending $100 and spending half the day no it could be literally opening three packages and putting them together pre-made rice pre-made sauce doll and some protein that is pre-cooked and you’re just heating it all up that’s cooking so i think you should do that the most dine out more cook the most so what do you got to cut out delivery man i haven’t gotten delivery in over a year to me is like do not get deliveryIf it’s not prime pizza, I don’t think we’ve had anything delivered to our house in maybe a year. It unpacks some exceptions, and I will say that these rules definitely have some asterisks, and I think pizza is certainly one of them. Sometimes you just need pizza for the kids. Instead of getting Chinese takeout, go to the restaurant. Sit down and have the meal with your friends, with your family. Absorb what’s happening in the room. It’s better for the restaurants. Financially, it’ll be better for you.Rule 3: Act Like a Food Writer When TravelingGoing out to eat when you’re at home feels like such a luxury, and it’s even more luxurious when you go out into the world and you start traveling. Now, I am definitely one to do a lot of research and to really think out all my meals and really understand where I’m going when I go and see different parts of this wonderful world, which is a fundamental approach to rule number three.Rule number three, when traveling for vacation or fun, you should act like a food writer. Yes. What does that mean? A couple things. A good food writer does their research, but also a good food writer travels open-mindedly, travels with two eyes open. So of course we all have done this and we have our 50 to a hundred spots on the Google map of the city that we’re traveling to. Yep. Go to a few of those places, but also when you’re there, be it Stockholm, be it Madison, Wisconsin, you’re in Portland. Oregon or Maine you’re in Mexico City have a plan but also act like a journalist act like a food writer absorb observe and really understand your surroundings and really take some chances and let the story find you I’ll say just taking a walk talking to some people on the ground don’t feel like you have to hit the eight places on the map because I think the best writers find the storyRule 4: Permission to Call Re-Heating Things CookingGoing out into the world and looking at food through a writer or professional point of view, and then coming home and feeling that you also have to cook food, maybe something that’s topical or trending, can be overwhelming. It can be daunting to the point of where I know that I’ve had paralysis in the kitchen of Just saying, I’m going to open up a can of tuna, throw in some mayo, and put it on some stale crackers, and that is dinner. Your fourth rule allows me to say that this type of approach to cooking is more than okay. What’s your rule number four?Rule number four is permission to call re-hitting things cooking. I’m here for it. We as food writers, we project this idea that you have to cook in a certain way, that you have to cook through a cookbook, or you have to make stock from scratch to put into that sauce. There’s been plenty of work around it where we debunk this and we say 30-minute meals are okay, et cetera, et cetera. I think we still, in an effort to explain home cooking, to flex our food writer badge, look, hear a cop showing up at an investigation, you click down the food writer. We tend to do that as food writers. We tend to try to project ourselves as experts by over-explaining and being a little bit more intricate with the way we describe food and cooking. I’m of the opposite opinion. I think that we need to democratize food more. Your example is great. A tuna salad on crackers with basically celery and mayonnaise and tuna. I didn’t say celery. Oh, sorry. You just shamed me right there, man. All right. Sorry. I had no celery for you, but just tuna and mayo. That is cooking. There was a whole era where Rachel Ray was basically dog for the semi-homemade approach. F**k that, man. That is great. That’s smart. And I think what’s happened since Rachel Ray to now is we have so many incredible products that arrive fully formed. Oh yeah. We’ve got freeze-dried soups and sauces from around the world using products that are local. I, as a food writer and part of the food writer’s diet, is acknowledging that that is actually really good, that you’re making that meal for yourself, that you’re actually turning on the oven or even not. You’re using the microwave. That’s still the act of cooking.Being able to tap into the global network of pre-made products, whether it’s Chili Crisp, is such an amazing type of hack when you’re cooking at home, especially those workhorse Tuesday night, get food on the table meals. I mean, I sneak fish sauce into everything I cook. Shout out to Red Boat. Oh yeah.Rule 5: Have a Coffee PracticeYour fifth and final rule flips it to the morning because that’s when the writer starts. That’s when sometimes they do their best work. And having this routine, this ritual in your life gets the day going and makes everything hit a little bit better. What’s your rule number five?My fifth rule to really live the life of a food writer, to follow the food writer’s diet is have a coffee practice. I intentionally worded this slightly broadly because I’m not saying a certain type of process is better than the other. I’ve found myself really rewarded by thinking a little bit more deeply about coffee. Coffee is one of the world’s greatest affordable luxuries. Having a little bit of a deeper relationship with coffee and having a practice, you’re going to live a better life. You’re going to wake up excited to try a new coffee that you bought online, or you’re going to wake up and feel like you can make a cup of coffee that’s better than the cup of coffee that you’ve had to drink the day before because you were in your office early and they only had those push button machines. It could be espresso too. Not going to ignore that. You could have an espresso machine, make yourself a latte, learn some latte art. Maybe you’re using a scale, which I fully endorse. You don’t have to. I’m not making a rule that you have to have a scale, but having that practice and having that kind of ritual and that method and using the right extraction process using like a Chemex or a V60, you’re going to be able to rate the coffees that you purchased. You’re going to appreciate coffee in a deeper way. In fact, when I travel, I bring coffee with me to the room. I actually use a little camping dripper. Yeah. And I won’t leave my hotel room without drinking my own coffee. Makes a difference. And it truly makes my day better. It’s like bringing your own robe on a trip.Wrap-UpMatt, thank you so much for sharing these five rules. If people want to listen to the podcast or read the fantastic Substack or get your book, The show is called This Is Taste. And yeah, I write a sub stack. You should just check it out. I cover similar topics. It’s a place where I like to just write freely about fun stuff. And taste, tastecooking.com.Amazing. Well, Matt, I can’t wait to see you in LA. Always fun to share a meal.Darin, it’s been great to catch up with you. Thank you for inviting me on. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I dial up Omaha to chat with sushi chef, David Utterback, to talk about what it means to build a craft without a traditional roadmap. David shares his Five Rules for Being an Apprentice Without a Master, tracing a path shaped by the Saddle Creek music scene, a life-changing trip to Japan, and the decision to develop a personal philosophy instead of chasing someone else’s version of mastery. It’s a conversation about focus, humility, and the long game, told through sushi counters, punk shows, and the discipline of starting over when you think you’ve figured it out.This one hits close to home for me because the overlap between music and food has always been where I feel most grounded. Snacky Tunes came out of that same punk, DIY instinct, make the thing yourself, build the community around it, learn by doing, and don’t wait for permission. That ethos has shaped how I eat, how I host, how I create, and how I move through the world. Punk isn’t just a sound or a look, it’s a way of paying attention, of choosing intention over polish and substance over shortcuts. Applied to cooking, music, or life, it’s about showing up honestly, trusting your taste, and building something that feels true because you made it your own.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.IntroHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I’m in Omaha, hanging out with sushi chef David Utterback, who’s here to share his five rules to being an apprentice without a master. He talks about how the Saddle Creek music scene shaped his outlook on life, how a fateful trip to Japan changed the course of his cooking career, and how by starting over with a personal philosophy is the best way to move forward in life. It’s a deeply insightful conversation from someone who helped put sushi on the map in the Midwest. So let’s get into the rules.Meeting David in OmahaDavid, it’s so nice to meet you. Thank you for making the time to sit down and chat. Hopefully you’re keeping warm in Omaha.Yeah, I’m trying to. It’s pretty cold here right now.I first heard of Omaha as the legendary punk indie scene with Saddle Creek Records, and I knew that was a big part of your coming up. What drew you into that music scene as a young guy?Girls. Yeah. You know, yeah, when you’re in high school, you’re just trying to do whatever you can to look cool, I guess. Joining a band was the thing to do. Punk music, we didn’t really know how to play instruments very well. And so it’s a really great place to start because you can build all of those songs with just a couple of power chords. At the time, the music scene here is just incredible. One of the capitals of independent music at the time. So it was a really great time to get into music.From Punk to SushiThat punk aesthetic really influenced your whole life and your approach to cooking in the way that you wanted to make the food you want to make, especially prevalent in a fateful trip to Japan in 2008. How did this approach to life eventually affect your culinary career?Before then, I had no interest in being a lifer in the restaurant industry. Most people who, especially at the time, get into the restaurant industry, you’re a pirate. I was living in a house with all my bandmates and their girlfriends. There’s 10 of us living in this house. Incredible. Didn’t have any money. So got a job at a sushi restaurant. Didn’t have plans to do anything more, but this fateful trip that I had taken to Japan by chance ended up at this famous sushi counter. Kind of put everything into focus. Before then, I had never worked at a restaurant where anybody was a professional. These guys, they sort of blew me away. That trip, it’s where I decided to focus. Instead of trying to do everything, I focused on one thing and that changed it all.It changed it all for the better and it put you on this fateful track to open up sushi and omakase restaurants in Omaha. Yeah. Which is a very punk thing to do because not the first place you would think. And I’m sure there are people who are dismissive saying you’re going to open what type of restaurant where. Yeah. How did that trip and how did your belief in punk music and that DIY approach give you the confidence to do it?Especially coming up at the time in the music scene, it was the perfect time to be a musician. You’re recording your first album on tape. You’re recording your second album on Pro Tools, right? You’re doing everything by yourself. It’s the beginning of being able to make your own music, produce it, record it, and distribute it all on your own. So me and everybody here in the city, we were all doing this. When you go to open up the restaurant and the mindset, everything’s possible. You can do it. You’re only limited by how hard you’re willing to work.Setting Up the RulesThat hard work, especially in this field of sushi and omakase, usually comes with a big apprenticeship. That’s definitely one way to do it and a similar path that many people have followed, which is why I’m so excited to chat with you about your five rules to being an apprentice without a master, which is a bit of a unique and novel approach to really learning a hundred year old tradition. But you talk about really setting yourself up in your rule number one.Rule 1: Define a Master, Develop a GoalRule number one here is, you know, and these weren’t rules where I had made them before. You kind of look back on a career and realize the steps you’ve taken. And for me, rule one was define a master, develop a goal. That trip to that counter that really set a goal for me. It was, these guys are so cool. I want to be just like them. I want to make food on their level. That was back in 2008. I had decided to do that. Came back from the trip and was like, okay, enough with everything else. Not going back to school. I’m going to do this. You know, focus.Rule 2: Become a StudentIt’s funny you talk about not going back to school because it seems like you are going after a different education. A lot of the times with punk rock and DIY, you can eschew learning and just dive head in. But your rule number two talks about the importance of getting fundamentals and working towards gaining a base of knowledge before you go on your own path. What’s your rule number two?Rule number two is become a student. We live in a time where all information is available. And so becoming a student doesn’t seem like it’s necessary. But when I’m coming up in 2008, I desperately want to be like these sushi chefs, but they have a deep apprenticeship program. Coming back from Japan at that time, there’s definitely less than 10 omakase counters in the United States. There really isn’t anyone to teach this material. And so I quickly realized if I want to know something that I need to teach it to myself. And so that means becoming a student, developing what we call in the sushi game waza or skill. I start buying every book on sushi and fish in English, every single one. Sure. The good ones, the bad ones, the at. home for moms anything that might have a little piece of information and i start doing that in japan too i start buying every book in japanese i can find i take myself to jimbocho which is a an area of town that just has used bookstoresAnd I just spend two days popping in each store, just asking each shop owner, do you have any books on sushi? And so now I’ve got this crazy collection. I’m having to use my mom to help translate. I’m looking at pictures, just trying to get any sort of information that I can to get me closer to my goal.Rule 3: Visit MastersI love this idea of gathering the knowledge on your own, becoming a student and reading up, gathering a strong base before you go out and sit with people who have been doing this for so long. It just seems that it leads to such a deeper conversation and you’re not wasting anyone’s time, which is a fundamental of your rule number three.Visit masters. It really does tie in with rule two. Because music or any other creative art form, you can’t just create. It’s got to come from somewhere. You need someone to influence you. You need to see what you like. You’re not creating whole new cuisine out of nowhere. You need to be influenced. You need to know what’s good. You need to develop. a palate. You need to develop taste memory. From that first trip, I start going and visiting every single one of these counters I can get into in Japan.At the time, these guys are known in Japan, but there isn’t a sushi craze or sushi counter boon that we’re experiencing now. And so I’m eating with guys like Takashi Saito when he has one Michelin star and He’s in the parking garage near the U.S. Embassy right now. He’d gone on to get three stars, lose them all because he becomes too famous. What a time. I’m picking up tricks. I’m seeing how they do it. I’m learning about the culture of the cuisine and the counter and how they conduct dinner, how they work with guests, how they talk, how they present food. Then I’m tasting it. I’m holding on to these things, making notes. and trying to come back home and reverse engineer these things. This abalone liver sauce is so delicious. How do I come home and reverse engineer it from memory?Visiting these guys at the top of the game, they give you a reference point. They help train by actually consuming the food. Having this postmodern approach where you’re doing your research and visiting multiple masters of this cuisine instead of following or working under one person is very, very different than most people who study sushi because it’s one way and you’re just trying to impress your master and work your way up to their level of skill so that one day you may take over. But being able to pull from these books and from all these different counters allows you to create your rule number four.Rule 4: Creative PhilosophyRule number four is creative philosophy. Who are you? What was the point of all of this? Why are you trying to get to this level? For me, in the beginning, I did exactly what pretty much everyone does now, which is copy somebody’s work. It’s cosplay now. You have folks who maybe never visited one of these counters and they’ve only seen pictures on the internet. Mm hmm. They’re trying to copy what they see without ever having experienced it in person.Also, you have apprentices. They’ll spend five, ten years working under somebody. They leave their apprenticeship and they’ve been taught how it’s done. Exactly. And when you leave that restaurant, you can create the work. of the master it’s like being an apprentice of Rembrandt you learn how to paint but when you get finished you can’t really create much of your own work no you can recreate the master’s work be a disciple it’s hard to move beyond that here we’re so far away from that apprenticeship program that now we’re trying to copy sometimes a disciple or something else we’re making copies of copies mm-hmmThe cuisine has gotten very, boring is the wrong word, but very sane. Uniform. Everybody’s trying to do the exact same thing. And so when I say create a philosophy, I realized at some point about eight, nine years ago that I was trying to recreate this meal that I had in 2008. For folks in Japan, in the apprenticeship program, that’s difficult for even them to do. And they’re there. Exactly. So I decided about eight years ago when I opened up the restaurant to just stop chasing them and trying to do my own thing. Try to create not what I think people will like, but what I actually like. And that’s been informed by my experiences.Rule 5: Start OverThat idea of letting go, becoming your own person with your own philosophy and your own experiences ties directly into your fifth and final rule. Yeah. What’s your rule number five?Start over, man. Talk about it. I hate the word master. I know we’ve said it a whole bunch. There’s no other word and it’s just been baked into culinary society. It just feels gross when you say it. It’s like, oh, this person is a master. No, there aren’t. And even at the top, I’m getting to know some of these chefs in Japan and I’m spending time in their kitchens and I’m learning that even they don’t know stuff. Of course.Funny story. I’m working with one guy. We’re doing a dinner together. He has a famous dish. And I make a version of it too. It’s called tamago yaki. It’s an egg custard. He says, we’re going to do your egg custard. And I said, no, you have a famous one. I want to learn yours. I want to see yours. And he goes, no, no, no, no, no. Let’s do yours. Yours is very good. No, no, no, no. I want to do yours. And you go back and forth on this. And finally he goes, David, I don’t actually know how to make it.That is the recipe that one of the apprentices makes and they share it and they make it at their house in their oven and they bring it to the restaurant. Wow. And too much time has gone by with this being attached to me as a famous dish that I can’t all of a sudden say, teach me how to do this. You know, it’s kind of a part of his career, but he doesn’t actually know how to make it. He’s like, David, you show me, babe. Right. It’s there that I learned that, wow, these guys don’t actually know everything.The more I spend time with chefs and at counters around the US and Japan, there’s just so many different ways to do it. Every time I sit down in front of a new chef and I have an exceptional meal, my brain just gets scrambled. Mm-hmm. I used to think I had figured it out and I was pretty good. And now this guy just kind of put me back in my place. That just happens yearly. I start to get a little bit of an ego where I’m like, yeah, I got this. I’m pretty good now. And then I sit down with somebody and they just show me what’s up. It’s the best. It is.Wrap-UpDavid, congratulations on everything. Thank you for sharing the philosophy. Very refreshing to hear this approach, not just to cooking, but to life in general. If people want to come and sit at your counter and have some of your food, how can they visit? Where can they see what you’re up to?Instagram is the new business card. So it’s @DavidYoshitomo on Instagram. If you manage to find yourself in Omaha, Nebraska, you know, we’d love to have you at Yoshitomo. At the sushi counter, it’s a little bit more difficult. Instagram is always the best place to just send a message and say hi.Incredible. Well, hopefully the faint are going to have some sort of 50-year reunion and I can hit both the dance floor and the counter. Thank you so much for making the time and hope to be in Omaha sooner than later.Yeah, I’d love to have you, man. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I’m joined by Telly Justice, executive chef and co-owner of HAGS, one of the most exciting restaurants to come out of New York in the last few years. She shares her Five Rules for Building Trust with your Restaurant & Brand, not through hype, but through how you show up every day. Telly talks about the importance of knowing yourself, being consistent, striving for equitability, communicating early and often, and enthusiastically accepting accountability. She breaks down how those ideas move from a mission statement to the dining room, the kitchen, and the community that forms around the work.This one resonates because it is a reminder that the real flex is reliability. Showing up for yourself, your work, and your team with intention and purpose is not a slogan, it is a practice. When you respect the people who support your projects, your staff, your guests, your regulars, the quiet tables, the loud ones, you build something that can actually hold weight. Everything is connected. The culture in the kitchen shows up in the dining room. The consistency on a Tuesday shows up in the trust on a Saturday. It all works as one ecosystem, and when you take responsibility for your part in it, the whole thing gets stronger.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I am joined by Telly Justice, the executive chef and co-owner of one of the most exciting restaurants to come out of New York in the last few years, Hags. She’s here to share her five rules for building trust with your restaurant and brand. We talk about the importance of consistency, that good communication allows for everyone to have a seat at the table, and that by practicing self-accountability lets you keep showing up for your team. It’s a great conversation from one of Food & Wine’s Best New Chefs of 2025 and an inspiring conversation for anyone who’s looking to build a better relationship with their staff, diners, or their restaurant at large. So let’s get into the rules.Telly, it is so nice to meet you. I know you’ve been having a very busy January, so I appreciate you taking the time to sit down and chat with me.Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be talking with you. I’m a big fan. This podcast is awesome.Oh, I really appreciate that. And I’m a huge fan of Hags, your restaurant. It’s been such an amazing thing to see come together and the community that you’ve created both in and around the restaurant. How early into the concept did you start thinking about the relationship you wanted to have with your customers at Hags?Our vision for our relationship with customers predated our decision to open the brick and mortar, especially as initially a pop-up concept that was born in 2020 during the pandemic. We really wanted to get out there and do what we did just to make people feel a sense of community and a sense of care and joy. We knew that we had this talent and this skill, and we wanted to share it with people. We didn’t expect it to turn into what we’ve built over time. We didn’t expect to open a brick and mortar so quickly. Yeah, it came from this place of caring about people first, and that was essential to when we built hags the brick and mortar being able to be guided by a clear mission statement that isn’t necessarily exactly the food you want to cook or the spot you’re going to open I think does lead to this authenticity and this success your mission statement is by queer people for all people yes why was it so important to you to position hags in this waySpeaking to the queer people component, the first part of that sentence, we knew that that was going to be the larger food world’s vision of us. And we wanted to own that first and foremost. We wanted to say that part of ourselves out loud and show that we were proud of it and that that was a place of authenticity for us to operate from and a crucial aspect of building our community. But we also wanted to, following up with the second half of that sentence, we wanted to make sure that everybody felt invited and encouraged and a part of what we were building. And we didn’t see it as an exclusively queer project, but we did want to see ourselves as whole and equal in the exchange as queer people doing the work. So that whole sentence really communicates what we were about when we were building the pop-up and what we continue to be about today.You’ve successfully been able to communicate what you’re about, both by what you stand for and the food you cook. So much so that Food & Wine named you one of the best new chefs of 2025. And not that outside acknowledgement is everything, but it is nice every once in a while to receive such an accolade. How did you feel hearing the news and what has it meant to you as a chef and restaurant owner and as a person?won’t lie i’ve been cooking in this industry professionally for almost 20 years now and amazing when you event that kind of time in these kitchens especially high-end fine dining you can’t help but have that dream that goal i want to awards i want to see myself in that magazine so many of my heroes walked that path and they gave me this thing to look out towards they gave me this goal to look to as a I was clawing my way through these kitchens. It’s hard work and you have to have something to dream about. You have to have something to believe in. When I left the fine dining world behind at the peak of the pandemic to do this pop-up, I kind of forgot all of that. I left it behind in a lot of ways. My goals changed and my priorities changed. What I wanted to do, what I wanted to access with Hags, a restaurant in New York City, became very different from the goals that I had as a young cook. And we were able to achieve a lot of our goals in building meaningful community and feeding some really great people that I love showing up and feeding every day in our dining room.When we found out that I was receiving this accolade from food and wine, it was totally out of left field because we just hadn’t thought about it. It wasn’t something that we were actively pursuing. We were pursuing other things. of course it took a moment of recalibrating what this means to me and what it means to me now that i have this deeply personal restaurant not for nothing hags is a business and it’s been an incredible boon to our business it’s brought a lot of people and a lot of attention our way i would say mostly if not exclusively very positive i love that i love that for the cooks in the kitchen they feel their work is meaningful it’s special they see people out in the dining room getting more and more excited about the project i love that for them i still feel like A regular old chef just cooking it out every day. I don’t think it’s changed how I feel about my practice of cooking much, but I do love to see the effects. It’s really cool.Seeing those effects and seeing the dining room full every night is such a fantastic thing to have created and been a part of, and something that takes effort every day which is why I’m so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for building trust with your restaurant and brand stepping away from the fine dining world can be scary especially with all of its guardrails because of those strict confinements it doesn’t always allow you to explore who you really are which could ultimately hinder you from finding your real success which is a big part of your rule number oneRule number one for me is know yourself. Self-knowledge is so incredibly crucial to any personal project, but also be curious about others. It is really hard when you’re struggling to access that self-knowledge to be truly available to your curiosities about where other people are coming from. Starting with who am I? What do I bring to the table? What kind of food do I want to cook? What kind of restaurant do I want to run? How do I want my guests to feel in my space? That’s so essential. It can’t be something you adopt or inherit from a job that you’ve worked or another restaurant that you’ve come from. You have to think critically about what these things mean to you and how you’re going to build a personal space that represents you and communicates your values, your vision, your ethos. And when you do that, you create so much space for other people to be themselves, which is so lovely when you’re curious about where they’re coming from.When our diners come in, we love to ask them more than just how their experience or how the food is, but how was your day? That’s amazing. Where are you coming from? Where are you going? What are you about? What are your interests? What drew you to our space? And by the end of the meal, I find we have more than just diners. We have new friends. We have new neighbors. We have new community members. And that develops such a level of community loyalty, community trust, and a deeper understanding than I think you see at most restaurants. And that’s one of the beautiful things that I get to experience in this space.Having people return, not just guests, but those who work with you and the world at large to your restaurant, to what you’re doing, is such a beautiful thing. But it also comes with a big responsibility of creating the same experience or creating a baseline that people can expect whenever they walk through your doors or sit down with you, which leads into your rule number two.Number two is be very consistent. This is an important follow-up to knowing yourself. It can be really easy to perform what you think you ought to be doing. Yes. But if you know yourself and you know how you cook, if you know how you serve, then when a guest comes in a second, a third, a fourth time, you don’t have to try to meet their expectations. They already know what to expect. They’re expecting you. So be consistent with how you’re showing. If you showed them warmth and curiosity the first time, return that warmth, that curiosity the second time, the third time. And if you continue to just show up exactly how you are, exactly how you do things with deep consistency, then you build something of a foundation that is closer to a relationship than a transaction. And people trust that deeply. They start to get to know the staff’s name. They start to see the interesting highlights on the menu that even if it’s seasonal and it’s changing constantly, they see your personality, they see your tastes. And that draws them deeper into the project that you’ve built. So consistency is huge for building trust.Being one of the people who helped create Hags and being named one of the best new chefs, it’d be very easy for you to say, it’s about me. I’m the face. This is my show. Even if it’s just outward facing for PR reasons and make the story very easy to tell. Yeah. But that approach usually leads to short-term personal gains, but not long-term growth. How you allow for the sustainability of success makes up your rule number three.Rule number three is strive for equitability. What this means to me is in any kitchen, in any front of house service facing dynamic, there are always going to be loud voices. I’m a loud voice. I take up a lot of space. There are a lot of people that are quick to express their opinions, that are quick to be the mouthpiece. I’m guilty of that. But I think that especially as a leader, you have to be able to survey the room and see who’s the quiet one, whose voice isn’t being heard. How do I get close to them and in good faith source their voice, their opinion? How do I build them up? How do I put a pedestal under every individual so that everybody succeeds as we succeed in the restaurants? And we do that with the diners as well. We want to make sure that the shy person at the corner table is getting the same kind of warmth and hospitality that the folks that come in ready to party and throw down with us are getting. That levels the playing field. It makes them level with me in as many ways as I can share. There are always important creative ways to like dig deeper into that equitability project. Speaking to it and always showing up in every dynamic, looking for that person that is getting less, that is slightly quieter, that is being heard less is so essential in creating a trusting environment and a trusting culture.Being able to differ differentiate the different type of approach and talking to people is really tough as a leader. Knowing how one person’s going to respond or even a stranger who’s walking for the first time takes a lot of practice and it takes a lot of effort, especially if you want to be able to keep things moving along and keep the open channels of conversation going, which makes up your rule number four.Rule number four is communicate early and often. There are always going to be issues. There are always going to be problems, surprises. Chaos is inherent to our world. All the time. Especially we find it deeply embedded in restaurant work. It’s really important, especially from a leadership perspective, but really at any point in the hierarchy to communicate issues, communicate concerns, communicate advice and do it early and do it frequently. As much as you can be talking to one another about what to expect, what to react to, own that honestly, especially this is leading into rule number five. But when you’re the source of the chaos, when you’re the source of the issue, it’s really important to be like, hey, by the way, I just broke a tray of glasses. It’s going to impact things for you, for me, for the diners. We got to talk about it. And I’m not going to shy away from that conversation. It’s really, really important to recognize when there’s something important to communicate, doing it quickly and doing it as much as necessary for that information to land and be absorbed into the dynamic.Knowing that you yourself can be the chaos, which ties back to rule number one, is just as important as everything else of being consistent and striving for equability and communicating. And your fifth and final rule really ties it all together. Because there are days where you have to recognize you are the leader, you are the loudest, you are taking up the most space, and that sometimes things are going to go wrong. Yeah. What’s your rule number five?Rule number five is enthusiastically accept accountability. Talk about it. Not just begrudgingly, which I think we all have these moments in our lives where we mess up. Yeah. We’re the problem. Mm-hmm. It can really sting to be like, yeah, I did that. I’m sorry. I think if you show up to those moments and you’re enthusiastic about saying, I really messed up. I really wish I hadn’t done this thing. I really wish that I hadn’t served you this dish cold. I recognize that I failed you and your expectations in this situation. And... I’m really sorry. Centering the person that feels slighted or is disadvantaged by your actions, hearing them out, give them space, give them a little time to offer you that accountability and receive it. It’s so important. The more you do it and the more practiced you are at receiving that accountability for your actions, the easier it is, the less scary it is. It never stings as much as you think it will. The more you do it, the more people trust you to be open and honest and earnest with their feedback. And then it stings even less. It feels like an essential part of building a meaningful relationship. That’s where trust lives. Even though it’s the fifth rule, it’s probably the most important one. You don’t need to know yourself to accept accountability. You just need to know that we all mess up. We all make mistakes. We all have to sit with it every once in a while.What a beautiful sentiment to end on. Telly, congratulations on everything. If people want to see what Hags is up to, make a reservation, see what you’re cooking, where can they go?Please check us out on Instagram. We’re at Hags underscore NYC. Also, we have a really ugly website, HagsNYC.com. Check it out. Our dog, Tootie, who is the restaurant’s mascot, is on there. You’ll see a great picture of him. and come to us in the east village we’re at first ave and 10th street we’re open wednesday through friday for dinner and on sundays we do a really awesome brunch 11 a.m to 3 p.m it’s pay whatever you want fully sliding scale it’s a lot of fun i love it come byWell, next time i’m in the city i’ll be coming in for a little chaos and fun right telly thanks again great to see you thank you so much such a pleasure Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Katie Parla, a Rome-based writer, guide, and one of the clearest voices on how Italy really works. Not the fantasy version, not the TikTok version, but the real one shaped by neighborhoods, side streets, long lunches, and very good food. Katie shares her Five Rules for Actually Connecting with Italian Culture, from skipping the obvious cities to renting a car to leaving space for meals you did not plan. We talk about how Romans really eat, why oxtail sauce explains more about Italy than most guidebooks, and how letting go of romantic expectations leads to better trips, better meals, and better stories.I love this episode because it is advice you can trust. Katie lives this life. She is not visiting Italy, she is in it, navigating it, working within it, and loving it every day. That perspective changes everything. Her rules are practical, but they are also generous, because they permit you to travel differently, to slow down in the right moments, and to stop chasing someone else’s version of a perfect trip. Listening to her makes you want to book a flight, yes, but more importantly, it makes you want to travel better, with curiosity, humility, and a little bit of chaos, which is usually where the best meals live.You can pick up her new book Rome: A Culinary History, Cookbook, and Field Guide to the Flavors that Built a City, which is available wherever books are sold. Photo by Ed AndersonMy latest piece for Pellegrino’s Fine Dining Lovers is out, and it’s a close look at how Brian Dunsmoor thinks about craft, control, and momentum. It moves from his garage pool table to the hearth at Dunsmoor, tracing how his intention and patience shape the way he cooks and leads. It’s about the small disciplines that add up to mastery, and why doing less, better, is often the whole point.TranscriptHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.It is always a pleasure when I get to sit down with today’s guest, Katie Parla, whose new book, Rome, is out on Parla Publishing. You might know her for some of her incredible writing on the food and beverage of Rome, or been lucky enough to take one of her guided tours around the city. She shares her five rules for actually connecting with Italian culture and and talks about the importance of renting a car so you can make your way to lesser known cities, how to avoid the pitfalls of trusting everything you see on social media, and why leaving some room for unexpected meals is the best way to have an authentic adventure.If you’re like me and so many other people, you know that Katie has her finger on the pulse of what’s going on in Italy today. So let’s get into the rules.Katie, so good to see you. Thank you for making time, literally pulling over on the side of the road during your incredible book tour to chat with me for Five Rules. Welcome to the show.Thanks so much for hitting me up. I’m stoked to talk to you.I, like so many others, have hit you up when I was planning my first trip to Rome. And despite you knowing the city so well, do you still feel the pressure to pick the right recommendation for the person who’s hitting you up? Rome is definitely a place that is becoming expensive to visit. It’s becoming increasingly complicated because of social media, blowing up places that don’t do good food or care about their stuff or ingredients. I think it’s even more important to direct people to quote unquote the right places so that the people whose work I really appreciate and treasure are able to compete in that new economy.It’s so tricky to navigate these major cities, especially with social media and all of these best of lists. And what I love about your new book, Rome, is that you say it’s not a best of Rome book. It’s about the real Rome. How would you define the real Rome and how long did it take for you to discover it?I mean, I’ve been chipping away at it for almost a quarter century now.Incredible.There are many real Romes. Everyone who lives in Rome and obsesses over it has a reality shaped by what neighborhood they’ve lived in, where they work. And Rome is really dense and it’s gigantic. When I set about breaking down what I think is the real Rome, I was thinking about sharing with people the widest panorama that I could of how Romans eat, how they encounter their food system, where they shop, what they’re thinking about when they’re at a wine bar. And delivering, of course, recipes. But most of the book, as you’ve seen, not recipes. It’s culture, it’s history, it’s urbanism, all in the service of showing the full picture of Roman cuisine, which is not just at the trattoria. It’s not just at the pizzeria. It’s in homes. It’s in cafeterias. It’s in these small moments, Daniel and cobblestones, eating pizza, attempting not to stain your clothes.I would say I have a couple of white linen pants from a summer in Rome that did not quite come back unscathed.That’s on you. You got to think about patterns. Wear patterned clothes when you’re visiting.I know, I know. But the heat, it’s a balance.That’s real.As you’ve done a deep dive into these homes and side streets in the city, what is the one dish that if you’re going to eat or learn to make that really connects you to the country world?Something that always comes to mind that encapsulates a lot is rigatoni with sauce that oxtails have been simmered in. Oxtails are often written off as peasant food, when in reality, they were enticing to all classes. Popes ate them, peasants ate them. This is one of those myth-busting dishes that shows it’s really delicious, but it also has an ingredient that would be status-driven as well. What’s great about it is you can simmer oxtails for hours... serve the oxtail segments as your main and then just use the tomato based sauce to dress your rigatoni and it’s delicious it’s caloric it’s savory it’s practical and it’s pragmatic because we don’t have a lot of time anymore to hang out in rome and this like dolce farniente b******t that everyone lies about is not how we it’s not how we live everyone’s got a side hustle there’s no permanent work anymore and people have to really struggle to get by and when they cook they want it to have maximum impact and those one pot two meal situations are huge helpUnderstanding the best way to navigate Italy is something that takes a long time to master. It’s something that people want to master, which is why I’m so excited to chat about your five rules for actually connecting with Italian culture. Cutting through all the Instagram, cutting through all the AI nonsense, cutting through all of the lists and guides, really understanding that to travel a country and to dig in is such a rewarding process.When you fly into Italy, you’re flying into Rome or Venice or Florence, one of the big cities. And your first rule talks about, while these places are great, and you’ve literally written the book on one of them, that you should explore other parts of the country. What’s your rule number one?My number one rule, skip Rome, Venice, and Florence, and don’t sleep on the secondary or tertiary destinations. This is a rule that goes against my self-interest. I have a tour company, and so I lead tours in Rome and Venice. Florence isn’t really my vibe, so I don’t bother with it.No, it sucks. I love Florence.Are you scandalized?A little scandalized.I know. There are Florence people and there are Rome people. I’m a Rome people.Now that I’ve turned the audience against me and the host.There are places, Senigalia on the Adriatic coast, Ravenna a bit further north, Campo Basso in Molise. When you’re thinking about regions to visit, everyone says like, oh, I’m going to Emilia-Romagna. And they go to Parma, Modena, and Bologna. And those are all very, very busy and popular right now. But they’re in Emilia. Right. Why not ditch Amelia and go to Romania instead? It’s amazing. It’s coastal. There are delicious lard-based breads everywhere. It’s fantastic.When you’re in these tertiary spaces, there’s a higher proportion of real live people who live and work there that you’re going to be encountering. They’re probably going to be less embittered. They’re going to speak less English, but you’ll still be able to have these experiences, whether it’s at the table or at your B&B or driving around and being at cafes where you’ll encounter the culture in a more profound way than when you’re on the well-worn tourist path.Yeah. People get on this well-worn tourist path. They’re chasing what they saw on social media or trying to get the same shot. But it would be really exciting for you to be the first person to post something on social media that other people can follow. But it’s hard not to get caught up in what is your rule number two.My rule number two is don’t believe TikTok. She lies. There’s so much bad information. The content creators who work in the Italy space, many of them have no idea what they’re talking about. Or they do know stuff, but they know that controversial takes are going to get the most views.So people are always like, Katie Parla, what if I want a cappuccino after 1130? In Rome, you can have that. No one’s going to get mad at you as long as it’s not ordered at a restaurant or trattoria. Go to any cafe. Also, you don’t have to eat 25 maritotsi when you’re in Rome. I couldn’t even name 25 places that do really good leavened buns filled with whipped cream. But you should have one at Santa Palata, which never ends up on social media, unfortunately. That consequently means that there aren’t lines around the block. This is a shame. She’s the best. Sarah Ciccolini rules.Be skeptical about what people say are the rules because there’s so many exceptions. And if you follow the social media rules and avoid eating cheese with fish, that means you’re going to miss out on one of Rome’s most delicious delicacies. Stuffed squash blossoms filled with mozzarella and salted anchovy. It is the best.All those smaller delicacies, what people don’t realize who haven’t been to Italy is that it’s all regional specific. And so that by getting out of the main cities, you’re going to find more variations on some of the more famous cuisine, which is super exciting.Getting there is pretty tricky unless you follow your rule number three.My rule number three is rent a car. It makes all the difference.Oh, 100%. Agreed.I will caveat. You have to put full insurance on your car so you will have a consequence-free experience.Yes. You can go anywhere in Italy. You can drive off an embankment as long as you bring... Actually, you don’t have to bring back even the steering wheel. You can destroy that car. It’ll cost you 50 bucks a day and it’s worth every penny, but it will take you to places, remote mountains, abandoned beach towns.Mm-hmm.gravel roads where the traffic jams are bovine based. You’ll just have all of this access to the landscapes and the nature of Italy. It will be a real game changer.The first car we rented, we returned with the entire right side scraped off.Love that energy.Second on that insurance tip.This fourth rule probably goes against everything that I stand for when it comes to planning a trip. And I say that as someone who has taken your information that you’ve given me and put it into an Excel grid with everything planned out. Your rule number four is heavily opposed to it.Don’t plan your meals.I don’t understand.Also, I’m a hypocrite. I do plan my meals.Yeah. Hear me out.Okay.When you plan your meals and you got the spreadsheet and you got your Santa Palato and your Armando Pantheon and your Trattoria da Cesare and you’re going here and you’re going there, the risk of having a real adventure, of getting lost, of finding something unexpected, of being uncomfortable, of meeting people, it’s a different game.I can agree. People pay me money to build their itineraries. I always say, I will tell you where to eat, but will you trust me that we should leave a few things open so that you can have a real adventure the way that people used to travel hundreds of years ago in the 1990s before we all had computers in our pockets?I don’t love having a bad meal. I don’t enjoy it. I do personally crave the pre-social media and pre-internet travel era. If anyone else is in that ship, I give you permission to not plan every single meal. I understand that sense of discovery and I understand sometimes you have to let go to have the best thing you’ve ever ate. It could happen. You could have the worst or best meal of your life by accident.Letting go and having this carefree trip to Italy definitely falls into this romantic idealism, especially if you’re younger, to go out and say, I’m going to just fall in love with the country, the food and everything.Your fifth and final rule, however, cautions putting so much pressure on your trip. What’s your rule number five?Let go of your romantic stereotypes.I understand we all want to live that hashtag spritz life, which you can now absolutely do in anywhere. 190 countries. Literally anywhere. If you’re just going on vacation to Italy, you don’t really care about actually learning the way that the culture works. Ignore what I’m saying. But if you want to get into the mindset of Italian reality, if you want to understand how the people around you are living their lives, know that 80% of food in Italy is industrial. That’s why it’s important to go to those farms or go to the wine bars that are sourcing cool biodynamic stuff. And so if we can just look at Italy with realism rather than this absolute fantasy tinting and manipulating our vision, we have a richer experience and a deeper experience with the country.Having that richer and deeper experience is what you’ve really dedicated your life to. I appreciate it because I, for one, have benefited from that passion and love for Italy at large.I just want to add that I will definitely take people’s money to plan their trips, but I also really want to have tons of free information. Almost everything that I write is out there. I don’t have secret spots. There isn’t a list that I send to friends that the general public doesn’t get, especially because the stereotypes about Italy are that everyone cares about ingredients and food and people are super chillaxed. Let’s be real. People who have restaurants and vineyards and are making cheese, they’re really hardworking. And I want the people who are doing things right to get as much attention and financial support as possible.So you can buy my book. you can buy my tour but you can also go on my website katieparla.com for free and my eater 38 is updated quarterly you have access to all of this information so you can eat very delicious things drink very well and dive into the city katiecongratulations on the new book rome and for all of the tours you’re putting together if people want to get the book see where you’re going on tour book an eating trip with you or just slide into your dms for a recommendation where can they go how can they get in touchI’m Katie Parla everywhere. Katie Parla on Instagram. DMs are open. I always respond. For events and cookbooks, katieparla.com. That’s where you’ll also find my tour offerings and city guides, which are mainly Italian, but a bit global free guides to eat and drink.Thanks for having me.Katie, safe travels, and I hope to see you soon.Grazie.Ciao. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Technology has quietly rewritten the rules of dining out, and this episode gets into what that actually means when you sit down at the table. I’m joined by Kristen Hawley, founder of Expedite and one of the sharpest reporters covering the intersection of restaurants and tech. She shares her Five Rules for Technology in Restaurants, discussing why following a restaurant’s lead matters, how access has become the real currency of dining, and why taking an issue to the internet before addressing it in real life can cause real damage. These are practical rules for anyone who eats out and cares about how modern hospitality works right now.It’s always a relief to get etiquette advice from someone who actually understands how restaurants operate behind the scenes. Not someone guessing, not someone shouting into the void, but an industry insider who’s spent years watching how diners, staff, and systems collide. Kristen brings clarity without being preachy and context without excuses. These are the kinds of insights that make you a better guest, help restaurants do their jobs, and remind you that a good experience is usually a shared responsibility.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptionHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I’m joined by my colleague, founder of Expedite and freelance journalist, Kristen Hawley, who’s here to share her five rules for technology in restaurants. She talks about the importance of following the restaurant’s lead when it comes to their policies, how by putting your phone away can ensure a better experience, and if there’s a problem with the dinner, to handle it IRL before you take it to the net. She is an absolute expert at the intersection of technology and dining out, and her insights are well informed and well founded. So let’s get into the rules.Kristen, so good to see you again. Thanks for stopping by. Always a pleasure to chat with you. I’m so excited to talk. Thank you.We met at one of the many restaurant technology conferences, and I couldn’t have found a better person to sit next to because you really report on the emerging worlds of tech and hospitality, which is something that’s really evolved to become ubiquitous these days. What fascinates you about that convergence?I started covering this industry more than a decade ago. The same thing fascinates me that got me started, which is the way that the diner experience changes inside a restaurant because of technology is such a fascinating social experiment and observation. I moved from New York to San Francisco in 2009. I noticed the way that restaurants felt different in San Francisco, which I immediately attributed to technology because it was 2009. Twitter was new. DoorDash hadn’t started yet. And it was really just changing the way that people acted in restaurants and their expectations. So that’s how it started.From the start to where it is today, you launched newsletter Expedite, which dives deeply into these topics. What have you found your readers responding to? What are the trends that you see sitting at the top of your most popular articles?People are really interested in stories about access, which can be reservations. It can just be access to chefs. It can be learning about restaurants. The most popular stories on Expedite tend to be about some form of access to restaurants in new ways, in old ways, in every way.It’s so funny because you talk about the old ways and the new ways, and it definitely is an evolving etiquette. How often do you see shifts? Is it gradual or is it a new app comes out or something drops and all of a sudden it’s a sea change?I would say that it happens in steps, but it’s not driven by technology itself. It’s usually driven by social things. I think the biggest shift was COVID, right? That was the biggest shift in the restaurant industry generally in a lot of ways, but it really changed the way that diners experience and the way that they expect to experience restaurants. They suddenly, very suddenly, expected more from a restaurant on a tech platform. They expected better delivery. They expected fast delivery. They expected, again, access. They expected correct information. There are moments where I can see, in retrospect, a big step change. I don’t think tech is driving that. I think social and environmental changes are driving that. And then the technology is just bolstering how people experience restaurants.I remember a time in restaurants where it was a pretty set rules of social etiquette, but those things have changed in the 15 to 20 years since I’ve been going out, especially as it relates to technology, which is why I’m so excited for you to chat about your five rules for technology in restaurants.Yes.Now, every restaurant is different from the mom and pop places to the Michelin stars. So it’s always good to understand where eating and what their approach is to tech, which is a big part of your rule number one.Rule number one, when it comes to technology, please follow the restaurant’s lead. If they are using a screen or a kiosk or a QR code, God forbid, there is a reason.Poor QR codes. Oh, so maligned. They obviously rose to prominence during COVID. They’ve evolved and some restaurants do use them for ordering for an open tab, for convenience, perhaps when they are short staffed or because they are short staffed. If there is technology inside of a restaurant, please assume that it is there because it needs to be and because the business has made a conscious decision to put it there. Sometimes you could feel even today that the tech is maybe invading your privacy or that you don’t want to share too much. Once you opt in to making a reservation or you get into the system, you’re in there all over the place. Being willing to give that information will actually help your dining experience, which aligns with your rule number two.Yeah, this builds off the first one. The same goes for checking in, follow the restaurant’s leads. You’re probably going to be asked for your phone number or some other identifying information, even if you walk in. It’s because the restaurant wants to link your presence to your profile. You should probably want this. If you’re an avid diner and you’re going out and you’re actively participating in the hospitality economy, it is the modern way to track activity. I can appreciate that it feels a little creepy. It can feel weird that a restaurant’s tracking you. There have been some outraged headlines about this recently, especially with some open table product updates. Restaurants have been keeping notes on diners for as long as they’ve been around. Yeah. This is the modern way. This is how they do it at scale. Just give your phone number. Just give your phone number or email address. They’re not trying to steal or take anything away from you. They’re just trying to give you a good experience.One could argue that the quality of your experience is how much you’re allowing to have tech be at your own table, which listen, we’re probably both guilty of this. I’m not going to sit here and say that I haven’t been super guilty of this, but try to think of a time and harken back to an era pre-computer in your pocket, which is your rule number three. Put your phone away.I am so, so, so bad at this. I am so bad at this. Big rule for someone who works in the industry who needs to take photos of food. I’m gonna put an asterisk on this for several things. Photos, sure. Checking your email every five minutes, probably not. I am a frequent solo diner because I travel a lot for work. And I will say too, I try to not use my phone when I’m sitting at the bar. I try to catch up on some print New Yorkers or maybe a Kindle just for reasons of trying to appear slightly more social.Yes. Everybody has a different tolerance for dining alone. But generally, if we’re going to complain about QR codes, if we’re going to complain about intrusions, keep the tech intrusions in your own pocket out of the experience.You bring up a good point because sometimes it is for work. Sometimes you are there working at a dinner, restaurant critics, secret diners, influencers, things like that, especially when a new restaurant pops up. If you’re going to have to shoot or make a video at the table, please keep this in mind for your rule number four.If you must film an influencer video or similar, consider your fellow diners. Book an early reservation, visit on a Tuesday, clear any additional lighting with a restaurant ahead of time. I recently got a confirmation email for a reservation. They like banned outfit changes. And I was like, what? What? That’s a thing that happens frequently enough that it’s in the FAQ that is emailed to a person who makes a reservation. Something I never considered. Influencing is a job. Reviewing is a job. Videos are a job. Photos are a job. I appreciate the hustle, but you got to consider the people that are dining around you. And in a dimly lit restaurant, when you break out the ring lights to take a photo, it is very intrusive and very distracting.You’ve had your meal. You’ve gotten the content. You’ve tried to read a book with your phone in your pocket. Let’s just be honest. Maybe it was a good meal. Maybe it was a bad meal. Maybe your job is to review meals. And we’ve seen this of recent where diners have taken to the internet to spread their grievances. We’ve all seen that this can really hurt a restaurant. Putting something out there in the digital space can leave a nasty footprint. And your fifth and final rule suggests dealing with this in real life before you take it to the web. What’s your rule number five?Talk to the manager before you review online if it is bad. If something wasn’t right, say it to a person. I promise they want to know. They probably want to make it right. It is really, really, really easy not to talk to anyone about a bad experience, but still get a ton of mileage about it on the internet. And I’m not saying don’t leave a bad review. There is a need for honesty. What I’m saying is if you don’t give the restaurant a chance to address it in the moment, it’s almost unfair to malign that experience online. The restaurant probably doesn’t know that you’re upset or disappointed. Just tell a human.Now listen, if you’ve talked to a server, talked to a manager in the moment and found no purchase, by all means, say what you need to say online. I am an advocate of truth and honesty. I’m a journalist. But I do understand how a bad online reputation can really tank a business. So just give them a chance. Give them a chance. You never know. One bad night of service doesn’t mean it’s a bad restaurant.This just happened to me at a place that I go to with my kids for pasta around the corner. I got this gnocchi dish. It had so much lemon in it. It was like savory lemonade. It was disgusting. I said something to the server and the server was like, oh, thank you so much. I’ve been trying to tell the kitchen this for three days. They just changed the recipe. I’ll be right back. It worked out. It’s not just me.Kristen, thank you so much for sharing these rules. If people want to sign up for Expedite or read what you’re writing, where can they go? How can they follow along with what you’re up to and what you’re working on?The best way is at expedite.news, which is the website for my two to three times weekly newsletter or kristenholly.com for all my freelance work.Amazing. Well, congratulations on everything. Deeply appreciate you sharing these tips. And I will try to be better about putting my phone away at the table when I go out to eat because you told me to.Yeah, me too. It’s a process. We’ll get there. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, chef and cookbook author Joshua McFadden breaks down his Five Rules for Building a Pasta Dish in the Skillet. Drawing from his new book, Six Seasons of Pasta, Joshua shares game-changing insights that demystify the process and empower home cooks to make incredible pasta right in the pan. It’s about intuition, flavor, and letting the pasta do what it does best: bring comfort, joy, and a little magic to the table.Few things in life hit like a bowl of perfectly cooked pasta. It’s comfort food with soul, a dish that can be humble or heroic depending on what you bring to it. Learning how to master it, how to build flavor, balance, and confidence in a single skillet, is a real key to living the good life. Joshua’s rules take away the guesswork and give you a blueprint for something deeply satisfying. It’s not just about eating better, it’s about cooking smarter and feeling more connected to what ends up on your plate.Last week marked the first anniversary of the LA Fires. To honor the moment, I sat down with my good friend Travis Hayden for a profile in Fine Dining Lovers by Pellegrino. The piece is about his first year at the incredible Bar Etoile—equal parts celebration and reflection, especially as it coincides with him losing his home in the Palisades Fire. It’s a story about rebuilding, cooking through the chaos, and finding beauty in both the fire and the aftermath.TranscriptHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I’m joined by author and chef Joshua McFadden, whose new book, Six Seasons of Pasta, is out on Artisan and available everywhere. He shares his five rules for building a pasta dish in the skillet, a method of cooking pasta that he has perfected.For anyone who’s ever wanted to learn how to salt your water, build the different layers of a dish, and how to finish with a seasonal flair, this is the episode for you. If you’re already an expert at cooking pasta and want to refine your skills, or you’re looking for a new advanced method, this is a conversation for you to enjoy.Let’s get into the rules.Joshua, so good to see you.I think it’s been a decade since the last time we ran into each other in Austin at your book event on South Congress. Thank you for making the time to sit down right now. It’s the busy season. Your book’s out. So good to see you.Good to see you too. Thanks for having me.I love the book. I think it’s really beautiful. One of the opening musings you have in the intro comparing the practice of cooking pasta to the art of writing poetry—and haiku specifically—are tied together. Why do you see these two disciplines as parallels?There’s the simplicity of it that really is fascinating to me. And when you really nail a perfect Pomodoro or a perfect pasta from its texture to all the things, it’s just so much more than the sum of its parts. It’s just a really special little moment in life. There’s very few things that give more joy than pasta. And arguably, push come to shove, it’s the most popular thing in the world. Even more than pizza. Start a war.One of the things I love about the book—and you’ve really built your career around—is the idea of seasonality. You’re known for your Six Seasons. Something that isn’t always tied to pasta is that it is a seasonal dish. Why do you think it is so important to think about pasta in this way?I think I just think about everything in that way, seasonality-wise. I just think it’s so fun to dive so deep into the moments that we’re in within a calendar year. I had my last strawberry several, several months ago, and I’ll have another one coming up here in early spring. Those moments are just anchoring for me.I agree. I’ve kind of always just shuffled around that dance with the seasons. I completely redid Thanksgiving this year based on turkey ragu and turkey meatballs. Again, really seasonally. This is the food. This is the flavor. This is the smell. This is the nostalgic idea of it all. And it just really kind of hit home. I’m a geek for it, for sure.I love that idea of just knowing that when I see spring peas or fresh herbs, it’s a memory. It’s a time of season. Just knowing that I have to wait for something for it to be properly good again, it just adds to the quality and the desire of the dish when the season comes around.Oh, so much. There’s just something about it. The smell, days are getting longer, lights changing. All those things factor into it. It really is, I think, a really special thing. Understanding that, it changes your life a little bit, I’d like to think.Knowing that you’ve put so much thought into what goes into cooking the pasta and when to cook it taps into—I’ll call it your rule zero—which is that cooking pasta is not easy.Mm-hmm.Which is tricky because it’s also one of the first dishes that most people learn how to cook.Exactly. I was making mac and cheese for myself—sure, out of the box—but that was in high school.Why is it such a hard dish to refine?You know, I remember having this conversation with the chef that I worked with a long time ago. I remember him saying, cooking a piece of fish or a piece of meat is really easy because you know the exact foundational rules of what you’re doing. There’s cues and there’s things and you can do it and blah, blah, blah. And I think when you’re in it with pasta, things can change. When it’s in the water, it might say 10 minutes on a box and it could be 14 or it could be six. Paying attention to those things and having all the right things set up.I would argue that I don’t think every single time you make it, it’s perfect. Even just the other day, something was a little bit too toothsome and overly al dente, but it was still great. I could have just given it 30 more seconds in the pan. So there’s always those moments. And I think that that’s why when I say it’s hard, that’s what I’m saying. You really should be paying attention because by the time you’re putting it in a bowl and getting ready to eat it, it’s go time. Up until then, there’s all these different things that can be happening. Too much sauce, not enough sauce, too much butter, cheese at the wrong moment—just a bunch of different things that can all go wrong.Knowing all the things that can go wrong and how to make them go right is something that anyone who cooks pasta always wants to know. And you have your own method, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for building a pasta dish in the skillet.Some of these rules are things that people think they innately know or they know how to do correctly. And it’s not saying they don’t know how to do it correctly, but to your point, it’s about refining it more and more every time.Rule Number OneGetting the water right.You have to have an alarming amount of salt for everyone that doesn’t understand it. But then you’re also understanding that it’s just seasoning the noodles that are in the water. It’s not about putting a bunch of salt in your body. It’s really just seasoning all that. You need a lot in the amount of water because you need a lot of water to be able to, when you put the pasta in, not lose its boil. And those things are very, very important.In the book, we give a ratio for it. Following that and understanding that and weighing that out and getting good at that—knowing that this is the pan I use and this is how much water is in this thing and then weighing out the salt, putting it in—I think is a really, really important thing because then you can check that off as that thing you’re not guessing.I think it’s really important to understand how the building blocks of “I learned from this and then I did this and then it didn’t work.” You follow all the things through. Which one did you not do? Maybe you didn’t add any salt because that can happen and it doesn’t taste like anything. It is definitely the most important thing.A lot of times I absolutely ignore the water-to-pasta ratio. I just throw as much water as I can into a pot where I think it’s going to be enough to cover. Same with the salt. And I go, let’s dump half a box of pasta in without thinking about the right amount. But you have dialed in a specific weight to the ratio of a perfect serving.Rule Number TwoPerfect portions for two.We did the whole book based on recipes for two people. Going back to the idea that I don’t think pasta is easy, that was the perfect way to start getting people to understand how to do it. Also, how to mess up, because they think that, oh, I got this. And then invite people over for dinner and all of a sudden they’re making pasta and it’s like, wow, it doesn’t taste like that.We would have gone the wrong way if we did it for four people, which is kind of typical. You have all this stuff for pasta, you don’t really need it. You can kind of double things up in a really beautiful way with pasta. So we really anchored it around two people and typically four ounces per person of pasta. That changes a lot with the shape of a noodle—rigatoni might look like the biggest bowl—and it’s still just a good generic rule, if you will, to follow, to really start understanding what’s right and what’s wrong, what tastes good, al dente, all those things that will actually teach you how to make pasta.Rule Number ThreeChoose the right pans.Obviously having a big pan for the water is super important so it doesn’t lose its boil. And then having a nice size 10- to 12-inch pan to be able to have the pasta and the sauce and being able to build it so you can all come together is really important.It’s one of those things that is, I would like to think, a very different mindset for when people are reading this book. They’re like, “Oh, it’s all going into the sauce for two minutes or 30 seconds.” And that is, I think, a radical transformation from the way people think about it. So having the right size pan certainly helps to be able to do the thing justice.Rule Number FourDon’t let your oil smoke.You’re really trying to do things slowly and over a period of time to really build flavor. That smoke flavor, especially when you start throwing something in there, is going to just scorch the outside of garlic or it’s going to ruin the chilies or things will be spitting all over the place. So it really is about being with it and building that slow caramelization of the things that you’re trying to either toast or caramelize.Rule Number FiveFinish like a pro.You’re going to learn when you’re looking at how much liquid—or a.k.a. sauce, ragu—is in the pan, right? You’ve already put in the pot of water. You’re bringing it down. You’ve tasted it. You know it’s at that moment. I almost like to take it off the heat and then start adjusting with the cheese, adding a really nice oil. If you’re going to use acid, now’s the time to use that because literally if you cook a lemon, it’s going to taste really sweet, like lemonade, if you will. It balances itself out because it’s like cooking the sugar.Herbs at the same time. I’ve already put them in the beginning, so I love to put them at the end as well—big handfuls of herbs. And that’s kind of the order that you really want to always follow. That same idea. Because the cheese is emulsifying, it’s doing a big thing, it’s taking on a lot, and then you’re just building from there. Foundationally, if you will, it’s just the right order to think about things.Josh, the book is beautiful. The “build in the skillet” method works—as someone who has practiced it. And all you need to do is make about 10,000 of these pasta dishes and you’ll eventually maybe get to the level that you’re at.If people want to pick up the book or see where you’re going on tour or just follow along with what you’re cooking, where can they go?I guess the good old Instagram is always great. I have a website as well that will show some events that are coming up.Amazing. I’m looking forward to cooking some of your winter dishes. Mushrooms are in season and what goes better than mushrooms and pasta during a cold, chilly night here in California.Hope to see you soon. Congrats on the book and thanks for making the time.Thanks for having me. I appreciate you. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with David Gelb, the creator of Chef’s Table and director of Jiro Dreams of Sushi, who shares his Five Rules for Creating a Body of Work You Love. We discuss how his early dreams of making sci-fi blockbusters shaped his unique documentary style, how technology shifts helped his early food storytelling, and why his five rules—such as making what you want to watch and surrounding yourself with collaborators you actually like—are essential for any creative looking to go the distance. It’s always a pleasure catching up with David. He’s someone I’ve known for years and whose work has helped shape how people talk about food on screen. Hearing his insights on how to sustain a long creative career—while staying true to one’s taste and values—is a reminder that the inside track is rarely a straight line. This episode is a great listen for anyone who wants to understand how things get made, what it takes to keep going, and how to build a life around telling the stories that matter to you.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.I’m always excited to sit down with today’s guest, David Gelb, creator of Chef’s Table, who’s here today to share his five rules for creating a body of work you love.He talks about the importance of making a thing you want to watch to be the base of anything you create, a tactful way to ask for and receive feedback, and that to ensure for a long career, always work with people you like.It’s a great conversation for anyone who’s starting to think about the projects they want to make, create, or get going this year.So let’s get into the rules.David, so good to see you. Congrats on the Chef Table podcast. Always great to see you putting out new work into the world. And thanks for making time for the show.Of course, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.Last time I saw you was at the Chef Conference in LA. We were actually chatting about the projects that— which I’ve seen from so many people these days, whether it’s a newsletter, social series, something like that. What do you think is driving this creative push for people to do their own thing?Well, I think that a lot of it is a technology thing. It’s sort of like when YouTube first started or whenever something becomes accessible, people are excited to do it. I think that’s great. It’s easy to get a microphone, a headphone. You don’t need to get into this specific studio space or can record nice footage on an iPhone now versus needing to get a big camera per se, or even being able to edit on a computer at home, which was something that was not attainable right before my generation of filmmaking. So I think the technology makes it possible and people have a lot to say. There’s an audience of people that are not watching TV and they’re on the internet.I know that advancements in technology and cameras has come so far since you started studying film in college. Did you ever think that these changes would allow you to make your first documentary?I suffered, or in some ways benefited, but mostly suffered from what I like to refer to as film school delusion, which is where you think that you are going to exit film school and then immediately go do a blockbuster, big budget movie, like a Star Wars reboot or Indiana Jones or something like that.Yeah, of course.I think it is specifically afflicts those who graduate from USC film school. The NYU kids think they’re going to make the next Goodfellas. I really had no intention of doing documentary. It only popped up when I saw the movie Fog of War, which I absolutely loved. I wanted to make The Matrix. I wanted to do like big action movies, really cool cinematography and all that kind of stuff. But then I could apply that to my doc work and I kind of fell into this niche and I realized I really liked it.So the opportunity to make Jiro Dreams of Sushi, this was a moment in technology because a new camera called the Red One had just come out that would allow me almost entirely on my own to be able to make it look like planet Earth, to be able to shoot with the shallow focus and have the slow motion without needing a film loader, without needing all that extra stuff. Even when I was making Jiro Dreams of Sushi, I didn’t think that I would still be doing Chef’s Table all these years later. It’s funny how it works out. And sometimes that’s the journey of life is you don’t get exactly what you came in looking for. You get what you actually needed in accepting who you are and the work that you actually do make.I think having that approach and that understanding of a long, creative, professional life, it comes to you later, not earlier, not when you’re a film student, but much later in life and allows you to just stay open to new ideas and new projects. How do you keep coming up with fresh ideas, how do you keep challenging yourself for the next project, for the next idea, for the next iteration of what you’re making?It comes from questions. What are the questions that I want answered that I’m curious about? And then how do I want to see it? What do I want it to look like? I have a project right now. It came in one form. And then I was like, oh, this world is actually quite interesting. And then I’ve kind of figured out the version of it that I want to watch. Being able to understand the work that you want to do and the work that resonates with people, having that meet in the center of a Venn diagram, it’s much more unique than I thought it would be when I was getting started as well, which is why I’m so excited for you to be talking about your five rules for creating a body of work you love.Even though you’ve moved on from the idealistic days of early college you, there is still that core of being creative about following your passion, telling the stories you want to tell, which ties directly into your rule number one.The first rule is make what you want to watch. That’s why I wanted to make The Matrix. I wanted to make the original Star Wars trilogy or make those things, but those things have already been made. My best work comes from, I’m making exactly the thing that I’m interested in that I want to be making. And I have the freedom and latitude to be able to do that. The good work comes from making it for yourself. And if I’m so lucky that the thing that I want to watch is what other people might want to watch or that somebody wants to pay for, I’m incredibly grateful for that. And that’s why I’m able to continue working. That’s the main first rule is follow your own taste.Following your own taste is a great way to get projects going and the extra passion that you put into it. But sometimes I have found that when I get fixated on one project, I’m not doing enough of what your second rule encourages.Number two, I mean, just do a lot of work.Yes.And it’s on to the next one because... Jiro Dreams of Sushi was not my first project or attempted a project, but I see people falling into a trap sometimes. And then I hear people, it’s like, oh, I’ve been working on this documentary for 15 years. I think that that is something that can be folly, where you bet everything only on this one thing. And the process of being a creator is you have to make things and then see how they go. And there’s a certain trial and error of creation that requires doing a lot of work.Ira Glass said it best, doing a huge volume of work because your taste is here, your skill level is only where you started. And so you’re trying to reach this level of taste. People give up because they can’t immediately hit their level of taste or they won’t finish the first project until they feel like it’s that good. But it only gets that good just through the process of making something, seeing, making something and seeing, making something and seeing. And so that’s the whole thing. A lot of work.Having a lot of bites of the apple really pays off in the end. And sometimes the projects that you thought were nothing or a toss away wind up becoming the big thing, the big opportunity. Sometimes that comes from getting feedback from other people who see something or say you could adjust this little thing and it opens up this whole new creative pathway, which ties directly into your rule number three.Listen to notes for the symptoms of the problem, but don’t overcorrect. Don’t lead the witness when you’re getting feedback. The audience is the patient and you’re the doctor.Yes.The audience is always going to ask for another Vicodin. They want the heavy pills. You cannot let the patient prescribe their own medication. We don’t do it. A lot of people you’ll show things to, this never happens anywhere more than it happens in film school, is everybody thinks that they have such important opinions and they want to solve the problem. What you’re looking for is what did it mean to you? Or did you ever feel confused or lost? But don’t let your audience prescribe the solution for you because you have to do it through your own filter.Sometimes it’s not just the audience giving you feedback. Sometimes it’s colleagues or the network or the studio.Oh, absolutely.And I know that as I’ve gotten older, I’ve been able to take feedback and notes better. In fact, on the last thing that I was working on, my buddy said, it’s not a full teardown, but it needs a lot of work. And he opened up the whole thing for me. That only really comes from when you trust the people in your orbit and you can really be on the same page as them, which is a big part of your rule number four.Something that really matters is your team and working with people that you like, that you’ve built a bit of trust with. Also an understanding that we’re all making the same thing.Yes.I’ve been in this situation where a director sees an opportunity with the producer. Then the director’s like, I’ll just kind of sneak in what I want to do and do what they want. That never works. It’s really about making sure that we’re all unified. We’re on the same page about what is the thing that we’re trying to make and we’re doing it together.You’re working with people that are happy in their crew positions. You don’t want to be working with a cinematographer that wishes that they were the director. Everybody just needs to have a sense of place and a solid foundation of we’re all here. We know what our roles are and we’re all making the same thing.Yes. And if I could add one thing, the sooner in the process that you have that conversation on get on the same page, the less pain points they’re going to be down the road.You don’t want to be having these conversations in post-production.Oh, of course not.And one of the big overarching things, and this kind of covers everything, is don’t be a people pleaser.Yes.You have to be diplomatic. You’re choosing your battles. You can’t be making core decisions on people. Crew members, edit, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, because you’re trying to make other people happy. It has to come from your own taste and the thing you’re trying to make. So if everybody’s aligned at the top of it, then you’re going to be in good shape. Somebody says something that is not at all what the project is. And then you’re like, oh yeah, well, it could be kind of like that. That’s not a great way to do it. And I’ve made all these mistakes in the past. Everything here is stuff that anyone who’s worked in this field has learned the hard way. And if you’re lucky enough to make something that you want to watch and that there’s an audience for, you’re two thirds of the way there.And your fifth and final rule touches on the last thing that everyone who’s creative would love to make, but isn’t always guaranteed. What’s your rule number five?If you want to be a creator and the objective is money, that this is not the best field for you necessarily.No.The goal... cannot be making money. Now, if you’re lucky, or it’s like the Venn diagram of thing you are interested in thing that audience wants to see, if those things connect, you might be in a position where you can make money, but that can’t be the thing from the outset. And you can’t be planning a project based on this subject hasn’t been documented and it’s popular unless you also have that interest. There has to be reason beyond cash in this thing. You really want to make money and that’s your goal and your goal is to calculate your box office and whatnot. Then, you know, there are other professions that I think are going to be more satisfying.James Cameron has the biggest box office. I’m sure he loves having his big box office, but I don’t think that he was in it from the beginning because of box office. I think he genuinely cares about the people of Pandora. Going back to that thing, doing a lot of work, James Cameron wanted to make Avatar in the 90s. And he just couldn’t get the effects and the budget and all the things. If he got stuck on that and he was like, I’m not making another movie until I make Avatar, that would suck. But he took a break on that and then went and took a different path and then came back to it with a whole new level of knowledge and skill. Whether you love Avatar or not, you can’t deny it. It’s a big, cool project that a lot of people did a lot of really cool work on.David, so great to see you. Congrats on everything. If people want to listen to the podcast or watch the show, follow along. We’ll see what you’re working on next. Where can they go?Chef’s Table continues on Netflix. Just look up Chef’s Table on Netflix and you’ll see that we have our core show. We have noodles. We have pasta. We have pizza. We got barbecue. We got France.Yes.Which not enough people have enjoyed Chef’s Table France, which was an absolute joy to shoot. Chef’s Table Talks can be found on all podcasts and check out the official Chef’s Table Instagram handle for the clips and you can see who’s on each week and the journey continues.The journey continues. Thank you so much, Darin. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with chef, content creator, and author Jonathan Kung, a third culture trailblazer whose videos and cookbook, Kung Food, have brought millions into his creative kitchen. He shares his Five Rules For Harnessing Your Creativity, and we talk about where ideas really come from, why limitations help unlock creativity, and how sometimes the best dishes (and videos) are born when you’re cooking in the woods with two coolers and no plan. Jonathan’s five rules dig into the art of improvisation, the power of talking tools with your peers, and the deeper reason why we all create in the first place. Whether you’re a chef, artist, editor, or just someone trying to make cool stuff, this episode is a generous, honest guide to how it all gets done.This conversation really hits home if you’re someone staring down the new year and thinking about how to keep making, building, and growing. Jonathan’s approach to creativity feels both grounded and expansive. He breaks down the pressure of the “feed,” the myth of chasing trend cycles, and reminds us that creativity isn’t about following, it’s about refining your voice, your ideas, and your pace. This episode is packed with the kind of real talk that helps you set intention without burning out. Whether you’re deep in a project or just trying to find your next concept, these five rules give you a compass for staying inspired and making work that actually matters to you.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with chef, content creator, and author Jonathan Kung, whose videos and cookbook Kung Food: Chinese American Recipes from a Third Culture Kitchen are enjoyed by millions of people all over the world. He shares his five rules for harnessing your creativity and talks about the importance of finding inspiration in limitation, learning how to improvise to create something new, and how the key to all great success is good communication. It’s a fantastic conversation for anyone who’s looking to head into the new year with good intention about what they want to make and create. So let’s get into the rules.Jonathan, so great to meet you. Longtime fan of your content online and the food that you cook. Really appreciate you taking the time to sit down.Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure to be here.Being a content creator comes with the pressure of having to create something daily. How do you harness that consistency?My background, actually, in school, I studied theater and creative writing as a dual major in college. Somehow that has managed to make itself really useful in my career shift as a content creator. Basically, what I’ve done is use the things that I have learned over the course of my schooling and over the course of my life as a cook to inform the things that I do as a content creator. And I pretty much just derive inspiration from all sorts of sources.I’ve noticed that among my peers, one of the topics of discussion constantly when it comes to conventions for content creators and gatherings is: where do you get your ideas from? How do you ideate? When I was just starting out, I was like, oh, I have lots of ideas. Eventually, I will run out and I will need to listen to these people talk about where they get their ideas from. I’m over half a decade in and still I haven’t done a fraction of all of the things I wrote down. I’ve forgotten more ideas for videos to do than I’ve actually executed over five years.Yeah, you think you’re coming up with something new, then you check an old notebook and you’re like, oh wait, never mind. I had that.Do you see a difference between developing a tasting menu or making a video, or are you pulling from that same creative well for all the projects that you do?My sources of inspiration tend to be from the same place in the sense that I look to specific places for inspiration. What I try to avoid is looking to see what my neighbor is doing. Of course, when I was a chef, the last place I would look is other restaurants and other tasting menu concepts that were similar to mine to see what they were doing. Same as a content creator—the last thing that I’m really interested in following is a trend, which goes against what a lot of social media managers will tell you.In the context of social media, trends can give you short-term virality, but they really say nothing about you as an artist or creator or even as a person. When it comes to content, I love going to other mediums of art that are not necessarily connected to my own. When it was food, I loved going to the museum and looking at paintings. Watching films inspired me to do complete tasting menu concepts based off the films of Hayao Miyazaki. Though that is a concept that seems to have been done quite a bit now, I was doing that in 2008. There was really nothing like it, at least where I was. And people were coming in. I had this secret kitchen in Detroit that was completely unsanctioned and totally illegal. But I still had people coming in from Chicago and Toronto to try these things because they saw a Facebook event.What a time. The mid-aughts, man. What a time to be cooking. It was such a time of great millennial naivete. I absolutely loved it. I look back so fondly on that.Back to the thing about trends. Understand that trends are a tool for growth, but they are not a signature of your own expression. I think when you start basing a large collective of your creativity around trends, it might work on social media because it’s fleeting and it moves on. But when it comes time to something more permanent, like your first cookbook Kung Food, doing something on trends is a surefire way to only be on a few shelves.What was the process in discovering what you wanted to say with this book—picking the stories that you want to have be more permanent in people’s collections?One thing that short form media has done is really quickened the pace on how the general zeitgeist of any given topic works. It just accelerates the saturation so quickly. So when I was just starting off writing my book, I do believe it’s probably one of the first cookbooks with third culture cooking even in the title, and it was still a new concept back then. The inspiration for the book, I should say, is simply an expression of my own identity in food. There is an authenticity of self, and that was what I wanted to write in my cookbook. It’s not traditional Chinese food in any kind of way, but it is the Chinese food that is representative of who I am as a Chinese person and my experiences as a Chinese American.Having those experiences and being able to tap into that across your body of work—whether it’s a video or tasting menu or a cookbook—is great to see, which makes me so excited for you to share your five rules for harnessing your creativity.It’s easy to get lost in what other people are doing, especially when you’re doom scrolling or looking at other people’s Instagram feeds. And your first rule talks about focusing on yourself and ignoring that. What’s your rule number one?Rule 1: Ignore your peers and look to other artists. Branching out and finding inspiration, not in the people that do the same thing you do, but from the wider world around you. Understanding that everything can be a source of inspiration if you just think a little laterally. Think outside the confines of your own niche or industry. With that basic tenet of where to find inspiration, it really just becomes limitless.That being said, on the other side of the same coin, there is something great about creating a box and creating structure. Because today, there is the detriment of having unlimited options or choices or things at your fingertips that you become paralyzed.Rule 2: Find inspiration in limitation. After saying that the world is boundless and unlimited, I go right to the opposite end and just tell you that being limited can actually give you such a sense of urgency and just really allows you to focus down.One thing I like to do as a chef is go camping a lot. And I can’t take my kitchen with me. I can’t even take all the ingredients that I want with me. I’m extremely limited to what I can bring. I bring two coolers for fresh food. I have one box of unperishables—sugar, salt, spices, canned goods, camping staples, oats, some grains, what and whatnot, maybe some fried pasta. What I found was I was coming up with recipes that I would never have come up with in the kitchen. And what’s more, they are recipes that I find the average everyday cook is able to do. Because if I can do it in the woods with no running water, electricity, and just some logs and flame, it’s in general easy enough for somebody with a normal kitchen to execute.So not only has it improved my ability to cook as a recipe developer, but it’s also improved my ability to cook as a former professional cook to now a teacher for people who are hobbyists and home cooks.Rule 3: Learn how to improvise. Improvisation is, just like cooking, a skill on its own—the ability to not lock up under pressure. I realized that inspiration can come directly from the moment. I was cooking for another chef. They were catering a wedding. They had everything planned out. They knew who every guest was. But lo and behold, there was a surprise vegan. And I don’t hit on vegans. I was a vegan for two months and a vegetarian for two years.In that moment when you have everything planned out and there wasn’t even really a kitchen there—we were doing banquet style cooking—everything was prepared. So I literally was taking sides here and there and concocting a sauce and came up with a really great dish that the person really liked. And of course, because that person liked it, the host really enjoyed it. In that time, I was just like, okay, plan as much as you can, but also save some room for improvisation because the spark of the moment can be just one of the biggest flashes in a creative career.Rule 4: Talk to your peers about tools. I’m interested in what my peers and friends are doing, but I’m more interested in how they’re doing it because everyone’s creative process can be so wildly different. There are people who use amazing cameras and video equipment and really expensive software. I used to be that person. And now I just use iPhones. I use them to film at different angles. That allows me to be a one-person team. That allows me to not have to communicate my needs to anyone because I’m the only person there.I do love learning about how other people create because it gives me the ability to consider different avenues I would not have originally considered. There have been times where somebody has talked to me about a tool—something as specific as a microphone. Instead of using a shotgun microphone, which is super directional, I learned to use two lavaliers. You can hide them off camera and get a more immersive sound. That became how I do things now, and it informed every other video I’ve filmed since. Talk to your friends and peers about how they do what they do. It’s a great conversation to have. And it has compounding effects on the things that you make.Rule 5: At the end of the day, it’s all just communication. What all of us are ultimately doing is just trying to say or express something. Having that constantly in mind can really inform every narrative that you make. For me, every single summer— is it just a tomato? No, it’s never just a tomato. It’s a love letter to the season.Even in how you say it—the different ways you say it—there’s meaning. I used to be just a point-and-shoot person until I got into video editing. And I found there’s a complete second layer of communication within the edit itself. The way you cut video communicates humor in a way that I could never do just in front of the camera. Remembering that you’re always just trying to say something will inform your work all the way through.John, thank you so much for sharing all of your tips and a perspective of someone who’s been in the game about how to say what you want to say and make the work you want to make. If people want to watch the videos, order the cookbook, or hit you up to plan a tasting menu for them—where can they go?You can find me on my socials. I’m just @jonkung across all platforms—YouTube, TikTok, Instagram. My cookbook is called Kung Food. It’s out in all bookstores now.Congrats on everything. Really excited to see what videos come up next and to keep following your work as you put it out into the world.Thank you so much. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with bartender, beverage consultant, and all-around cocktail whisperer Linda Douglas to talk about her Five Rules on Building an at Home Bar. She shares the importance of intention when choosing base spirits, to learning how to batch drinks like a pro, all while demystifying the world of mixology with warmth, clarity, and a healthy pour of real-world experience. Whether you’re starting from scratch or ready to level up, this episode gives you the tools to build a home bar that works for you and your guests.I love this episode because it removes the mystery of putting together an at home bar. You don’t need a rolling cart or fancy bottles or an encyclopedic knowledge of spirits—just a little curiosity and a few smart tips. Linda’s advice lets you build confidence as you learn what you like, what to serve, and how to host without stress. Best of all, it helps you find your signature cocktail—the one you make without thinking, the one that makes people smile when they walk in the door. That’s the power of hospitality, and that’s what makes this episode so special.Hello, and happy holidays.Welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I sit down with LA bartender extraordinaire, Linda Douglas, who can be seen crafting cocktails at Donna’s and serving up her own creations at her excellent events across the city and the world. Today, she shares her five rules on building an at-home bar. She talks about the importance of personalizing what you put together, that intentional curation will help with cost when it comes to buying liquor, and how picking your bartender’s brain is the best way to build the best collection at home.It’s a fantastic conversation for anyone who’s ever wanted to have their own little speakeasy in their house, serving up crafted cocktails for loved ones at home. She also shares her recipe for a freezer door martini, which can be seen in the episode description below.So let’s get into the rules.Linda, such a pleasure to see you. Thank you for making time during the busy holiday season.Great to see you. Thanks for having me. I’m excited for this.When I was reading up on you and your inspirations, one of the inspirations of yours that I love was nostalgia. What do you love about looking backwards to create something new?Besides always trying to figure out what trends are going on, mainly because of my brain rot on TikTok. Knowing that flavor trends bring things back to base of home and nostalgia comes back to a sense of making people feel good, whether they’re drinking a beverage or spending time at your restaurant. And nostalgia is different for everybody. And it hits at the same place, though. It’s a constant journey to find everybody’s little bit of nostalgia that we can all come together with.When we dined at Donna’s, the idea of nostalgia and a different era of a restaurant that has been updated definitely came into play. I found that as much with the food as with the cocktails that you made for us. What old ideas have you brought into the new world with the cocktails that you helped make at the restaurant?When we build on how we want our guests to feel, we think about making people feel that they’re coming back to a place, whether it’s their first time there or their 30th time.I love that. Really making things welcoming and not intimidating.And that’s a really big part of my process with cocktails and storytelling. People should be excited to ask for their very first martini, not be intimidated by asking what a certain ingredient is. The thought of sharing a bit of why we’re excited as bartenders and hospitality professionals to be a part of everybody’s special moment or just their regular Monday night. Having pride in our work goes and overflows into our guests having a great time.I love that. I love the idea of hosting and having a great time. I’ve always associated with chefs or professional bartenders that their home is an extension of their restaurant. But I’ve also been to some chefs’ houses and there’s nothing to eat but some frozen pizza and maybe a bag of almonds. Are bartenders the same way? Do they have a built-out bar at their house? Or is it, as I have also seen, Miller High Life’s and a bottle of Jameson?Oh, goodness. You’re really hitting it on the head. I just felt seen.A little bit of both. Yes. A common question that I even ask other industry professionals, are you making drinks at home? And a lot of times we’re saying very low stakes cocktails. Highballs. Perfect.We have a lot of things batched probably from different events that we just had or we’re tasting things or R&Ding for something.What a dream.My freezer has six cocktails in it right now. Four of them, I love. Two of them I’m trying to work through.You end up building an at-home bar of all the things that you really enjoy, and it might be a bunch of small nips of things that you’ve shared with other bartenders along the way. There is this little circle of us. We each send over three ounces of our favorite spirit to one another.Ugh.So my home bar is little bits and pieces of mini bottles that we’ve shared with each other, which is kind of special.Not everyone is friends with some of the best bartenders in the city and in the country, which is why I’m so excited for you to be here to share your five rules on building an at-home bar for people who aren’t living that life professionally.I thought a lot about this and at times have felt intimidated when I’ve gone over to whiskey collectors’ houses. Is this how my bar is supposed to feel at home? Your first rule talks about making the right type of setup for who you are. What’s your rule number one?Rule number one is to personalize it. Build a bar that excites you. Your home bar has to be exciting for you to play around in. A lot of people will think about making a home bar very expensive, but my favorite thing is to go to estate sales, thrift stores, garage sales, and finding fun personalized glassware that really speak to me and I’m excited to use and play around with. And we’re not spending as much money thinking that hey, I’m thinking about having to buy very professional tools. I’m not working well for making 300 cocktails at a nightclub or something. This should be fun and exciting for you to engage with.I also think that there’s a set lineup of glassware that you should look for when you’re going to these estate sales. And the lineup should be a martini coupe, a rocks glass, and a highball glass. Three of those and you can make a bunch of cracked cocktails.The idea of having to start from scratch or having to buy a whole new setup can be really tough, especially if money’s tight or you don’t want to make that huge investment. And the other thing that people can get hung up on are the tools and the equipment needed, which is a core tenant of your rule number two.My rule number two is keep tools simple, essential, and high quality. You don’t need every single gadget that’s going to come in one of these kits that you’ll probably find around the holidays right now. My go-to list: a Boston shaker, a bar spoon, Hawthorne strainer, a jigger, a hand juicer, and a mixing glass. That’s it. It doesn’t have to be super fancy. It just has to not annoy you from using it.There are times when you go to make a drink or even when you go to cook and you don’t have the tool that you need to actually make the thing that you want. That’s a real pain. And so being really thoughtful and intentional about what you have in your house, either equipment or ingredient-wise, is a big part of building out your bar and a big part of your rule number three.Rule number three is stock smart. Buy what you know and how to use it. I don’t want people to feel pressured to buy—great, I’m going to have a party for New Year’s or Valentine’s Day, I need to buy 42 bottles. Slowly build your repertoire of what you want to hold on to and what you want to carry on your home. An easy way for me to plan this out is you want to have two bottles of the same spirit: one that’s on a basic level, something that you can shake and drink in a mixed cocktail. And the second one should be something that is more luxurious, that you want to cherish, that you want to sip neat after dinner or on a date. Something that shines by itself.Supporting ingredients like digestives and modifiers should earn their place on your bar. You want to make sure that you’re using ingredients that you’re comfortable and confident with but also you can use it in various different ways. If I am going to buy coffee liqueur for an espresso martini, I could also use it in a coffee negroni or coffee old-fashioned.Yes please.If I’m gonna buy a really lovely amaro, great—I can have it on the rocks after dinner or before dinner, I can make it into an amaro spritz and I could put it into a black manhattan. Using these bottles in versatile ways is going to get more bang for your buck and you’re going to make more exciting, creative cocktails at home.Budget plays a big part of this, especially as we hit the holiday season and hosting and entertaining are at an all-time high. Your fourth rule speaks to this. What is your rule number four?Rule number four is to batch and prep in advance. It’s helpful to use this tip especially if you’re planning on hosting. Being able to think about making a cocktail that’s just in a bottle that you pour over ice, you put a lemon peel in it, and it’s ready to go, is the most helpful thing that you’re going to have. One of my go-tos is a freezer door martini. You basically just take your recipe that you like for your martini, pour it into a bottle, and you’re not going to add any water to it. You’re going to put that bottle into the freezer. You’re going to wait at least 24 hours. And now you’ve got a beautifully crystal-clear, delicious martini that’s just ready to pour for your guest, and it looks so classy when you just hand it to them without even having to go to your bar.I love this idea because it reduces the anxiety of prep, especially when you’re trying to entertain, you want to be hosting, and you’re working the playlist, and you’re also trying to get the food out. Having these premade drinks allows people to start the night off with something a little special before they transition into something else. Which brings us to your final rule, which is something that really brings the home bar together. What’s your rule number five?Rule number five is to pick your bartender’s brain. Bartenders are excited to share about our favorite spirits, things that we’re excited about. We spend a lot of time and investment trying different liquors and spirits and digestives, and you can really just ask what should I have at home or if I want to do a stirred cocktail, what would you recommend? If I want to do something for a party, what’s your go-to? And it’s amazing how generous bartenders are with their time and advice and excited to share some things. And that’s also a really great way to engage in your community and engage in local businesses.Linda, these are amazing rules. Thank you so much. Before we go, if people want to follow you, book you for an event, or just see what you’re up to, where can they go?They can find me on Instagram @_linduh_, or they can find me directly through donna-la.com.Amazing. Thank you so much, and happy holidays.Happy holidays. Thanks for having me. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Kyle Knall, the Chef and Co-Owner of Birch and Culinary Director at Stone Bank Farm in Milwaukee, to talk about what it really means to work with farmers. From hugs at the market to crafting a menu around whatever’s thriving in the fields, Kyle lays out his Five Rules for Chefs who Work with Farmers. It’s about building trust, bringing hospitality to the fields, and treating farm-grown ingredients with the same care you’d give your guests. This isn’t a farm-to-table slogan; it’s a lived philosophy of sourcing, respect, and showing up for the people who feed us.This one hit home. Supporting farmers isn’t just a nice gesture—it’s critical if you care about where your food comes from and who’s growing it. The local food economy depends on us showing up: asking questions, buying what’s in season, and cooking with intention. For me, the farmers market is one of the most inspiring places to start a recipe—it’s where the menu begins, not ends. Whether you’re a pro in the kitchen or just picking up some radishes for the weekend, connecting with your local growers helps you cook better and eat with purpose.Photo Provided by BirchFive Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I chat with Kyle Knall, the chef and co-owner of Birch and the culinary director at Stone Bank Farm in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He shares his five rules for chefs who work with farmers. He talks about the importance of knowing your farmer and their story, to let what’s at the farm dictate what you cook, and how hospitality at the restaurant should be extended to those who grow out in the fields. It is a fantastic conversation about the reciprocal relationship between those who grow and those who cook. So let’s get into the rules.Kyle, so good to meet you. Thank you for taking the time out of your day, the restaurant and the farm, and sitting down with me for the show.Excited to be here. Thanks for having me.I know it’s a really tenuous time for farmers. What have you heard and experienced being on the ground in the Midwest?First off, there’s always—this can sound negative, but it’s not—there’s always something. I don’t know if people actually realize that. We see farmers we work with three days a week, and it’s a rare thing for it to be just a perfect day for them because they have to deal with so many different variables—obviously rain, no rain, freezes, the crops getting eaten by deer. It’s just really tough every day, but especially now. I was actually in Washington DC two weeks ago talking about immigration and workforce. The people that were with me going to our representatives were dairy farmers. What they’re dealing with is just really insane. I’m worried about their workforce. It’s just a lot. Those things that are out of their control are really hurting them right now.Being on both sides of that relationship—being a farm owner and a restaurant owner—what unique perspective do you have with the relationship between restaurants and farms?To me, it’s hard to clarify what’s unique because I feel like it’s so normal for us. Stone Bank is the farm that we’re affiliated with. I am at the West Dallas Farmers Market three days a week. I hug these farmers three days a week. They come eat at the restaurant. They love my kids. It dictates what we do. I moved here from New York in 2020. For a long time, people were like, “Oh, how’s cooking in Milwaukee?” And the answer is it’s amazing because the agriculture is so incredible. We’re in vegetable and dairy heaven all the time. Being in this area of the country, getting to know these farmers really has dictated and helped us really do what we want in the restaurant and cook what we want.It sounds like even with all the hardships, there is some hope. What’s a real bright spot for you right now in a farm-driven restaurant?There’s always hardships. There’s always tough things. And I hate talking about tough things because there is so much great stuff. For us, we don’t have to worry about gas prices. We don’t have to worry about fees attached to big deliveries. We don’t have to worry about cooking things that don’t taste good. Being so connected to the farmers, seeing them throughout the week, knowing what’s coming, talking about what’s going to happen in the spring, what can be grown for us—those little things really are the huge pluses for us. Being a restaurant that uses so much farm-driven ingredients is really special because you’re not just financially supporting them, but you’re also supporting the community of people who make it up, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for chefs who work with farmers.Anyone who’s gone to a farmer’s market for the first time can feel overwhelmed. You see these people, you don’t know who they are, you don’t know anything about them. Your first rule talks about the importance of getting to know who’s selling you different produce a little bit better to help you cook a little bit better. What’s your rule number one?Rule #1: Know your farmer and their story.At the market we go to, we’ve found ingredients through the seasons now for four seasons that are delicious from certain farmers. Let’s just say like Jerry has the best garlic. First off, he trusts us. He started growing us avocado squash in Milwaukee, Wisconsin three years ago. Now he sells hundreds of pounds of it to people that aren’t professional—go to the market, that’s just another item that is producing more money for him. That trust really goes both ways. When you say to Jerry, “You don’t grow Sun Gold tomatoes or corn? Who should I buy it from?” I love that. That’s like the inside line. Making conversation with farmers or people in markets is a very important part. It’s starting those conversations and then building that trust. And like I said, the trust goes both ways. They start to trust you, then they’re really going to tell you their secrets.I have to imagine that trust is even more important when you’re a chef and a restaurant owner—when you have an idea for a menu and you go to the market and either it’s sold out or not available. And you have to listen to the farmer and to the merchant selling what they got, which is a big part of your rule number two.Rule #2: Cook what the farm gives you, not what you wish it would give you.I think most chefs need parameters. I can open up a cookbook tonight at home and say, “I want to make this tomorrow.” Sure, but are those ingredients there? We can cook whatever we want, so I think we need guidance and parameters to really follow. And that helps narrow down a clear vision and an identity. A chef’s job is to make sure food is delicious. So why would you not use the most delicious thing available to you? That’s the number two rule that we’re talking about. But in terms of who I am and what I do, that’s probably the number one. Going to the market and you’re looking for taste good. It’s just so many options. I know that I’ve been there and gone in with an idea of what I want to cook, but then I see that one parsnip or that one apple that goes, “I’m throwing everything out.”Which is a core tenet of your rule number three.Rule #3: Buy what looks good.100%. Delicious food. I know. You come back, it’s like, “I thought we were doing eggplant parm.” It’s like, “No, we’re not. I saw something else.” Our goal at Birch, what we talk about—we’re privileged to be able to go to these beautiful markets and walk up and see this amazing looking produce on the table, taken care of by who grew it. Of course, we’re going to have to manipulate it a little bit. Our goal is to show that beauty off. Let that shine. If you’re going to buy something and man, the Swiss chard is super wilted—should I really be getting this? If the kale looks really crisp and nice—yeah, get the one that looks good because it’s going to taste better. The mentality as you’re touching it, cooking it, looking at it—you’re just going to feel better about what you’re making. Things that look good, they’re going to cook good.When you go to the market, you’re buying things that are maybe sometimes in bulk and you want to be cognizant of not throwing any of it out. What is your rule number four?Rule #4: Reduce waste of intentionally grown items.Consider how to repurpose and find more of what you have. I have two kids. We cook at home. We definitely buy things that are in an abundance. Take what you need so you’re not having to waste anything—a whole head of cauliflower or two extra bunches of romaine or whatnot. But if you do, to me honestly, those second and third meals off ingredients—the better meals. Turning something that you’ve cooked into a soup. You buy a head of fennel and you just need to use a little bit for a salad. When you use the rest of that fennel for your next meal, I bet it’s going to be more delicious. It’s going to be something that you open the fridge and you’re like, “How can I use this?” To me, those things end up being more thoughtful and more delicious.That respect, that understanding of the hard work that goes into growing all of this is really important. Because if you know how much sweat and labor goes into just a pea, a cherry tomato—something that you might just toss in the trash or take for granted—you lose a little bit of the perspective of what it means to be working at a farm. Your fifth and final rule talks about giving that respect and that acknowledgement of that hard work to the people who grow the food that we eat.Rule #5: Hospitality should extend to farmers.I love that. I worked for Danny Meyer for a long time. We always talked about your employees, your team members. The phrase to me has morphed. Your employees and your purveyors and farmers are one thing. Lynn from SynthGraph Farm, Michelle from Stone Bank, Jerry from Jerry’s Produce—we’re 100% teammates. It’s a complete cycle, meaning they’ll grow things specifically for us. We buy them, we cook them. In their head, they’re like, “Oh, we’re going to go there and eat dinner because we know that thought is being put into those ingredients.” So they’re in the dining room meeting. Last night, they were here. We trust each other so much, take care of each other so well. You’re buying ingredients that you need to be amazing. Why would you not be hospitable to those people? They’re going to be the ones who are doing something you want. So why not take care of them in the first place? The whole thought about hospitality or farmer—I think about just saying, “What’s up, Jerry? How’s it going? How are you today?” Give him a hug. Those little moments make everyone feel a little warmer inside and everybody needs that. And as a restaurateur, it’s something that the hospitality should never turn off. You just keep it rolling through the days with our employees, with our guests and everything.Kyle, congratulations on everything. If people want to check out Birch or swing by Stone Bank Farm, how can they follow along? How can they get involved?The easiest thing is follow my Instagram, @KyleKnallYall, because it’s so clever. My wife came up with it. Wonderful. Birch Unpleasant and Stone Bank Farm Market.Excited for you guys. Excited that you’re supporting the restaurant community, the farm community, and that you’re out there helping out people who need help during this pretty tough time—that you’re supporting small businesses. Hopefully I’m in the Midwest soon enough and I can swing by the farm and swing by the restaurant for a little shopping and a meal.Yeah, that’d be great. Thanks so much. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Aishwarya Iyer, founder of Brightland, to talk about how to find fresh ideas when the creative well runs dry. She shares her Five Rules for Finding Inspiration—ranging from the power of putting your phone down to digging back into past launches, and even borrowing inspiration from perfume bottles for food packaging. It’s a grounded, generous conversation that’s equal parts brand building and soul searching, perfect for anyone trying to make something new in a noisy world.I love this episode because it’s a reminder that inspiration isn’t just waiting for you in obvious places—it’s hiding in your pantry, your community, even in your closet. Aishwarya’s approach to creativity is about looking sideways, not just forward. Whether it’s revisiting an old family recipe or walking a new aisle at a bookstore, finding new paths to creativity is how we keep growing, making, and evolving. This one gave me a few ideas of my own—and if you’ve been feeling stuck, it just might do the same for you.My friend TEED has a new album out now, and it’s a perfect soundtrack for a dreamy winter wonderland. Stream or buy Always With Me wherever you listen to or purchase music. Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I sit down with Aishwarya Iyer, CEO and founder of Brightland, which is some of mine and my family’s favorite olive oil. She’s here today to share her five rules for finding inspiration. She talks about the importance of putting your phone down, keeping your head up and looking out in the world for new inspiration, how her previous products guide future endeavors, and the importance of embracing unconventional sources to find new ideas. It’s a deliciously fun and inspiring conversation with a lot of great takeaways for anyone who is stuck creatively or wants to expand their creative horizons.So let’s get into the rules.Aishwarya, welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I feel like I see you every day because we always have a bottle of your olive oil in our pantry and on my counter at all times.That is music to my ears and I am thrilled to be here.I love that you started your career at L’Oreal in the luxury products division because where you’ve wound up now is this high-end luxury part of the CPG market. How much parallel do you see from your work with both high-end makeup brands and high-end olive oils, honeys, and vinegars?When I got into it, I didn’t see any parallel, but I created the parallel. If we can talk about blush and serum 500 different ways... then we can talk about these products that come straight from the earth that have so much provenance and terroir and story and history and taste and flavor. We can showcase them in interesting ways. We can photograph them in interesting ways. We can package them in interesting ways. And so I created it.I’ve always felt that when I’ve traveled or gone to high-end specialty shops for food and pantry items, I’ve always known that there’s the top shelf stuff. And it’s the same way with fashion. And I know that you have looked at designers and different fashion brands for inspiration. What is it about their work in that field that inspires you?They are looking at emotion first. How do we make people feel? They’re not trying to talk to themselves. CPG and food especially has a funny way of wanting to talk to ourselves a lot. Right, right. Here are all our value propositions. Are you creating an emotional connection with anybody out there? Are you making people feel something? And I think that fashion, when done well, they’re able to do it really masterfully. And it doesn’t have to be luxury. I see Gap doing it right now beautifully. That to me was this driving force of, oh my gosh, we’re not just in the business of food. We’re not just in the business of olive oil. We’re not just in the business of marketing. We’re in the business of emotions. Why not spend time there? Spend time thinking about how we want people to feel.Tapping into those deep emotions, knowing that something is going to have that connection over a long time is so tricky these days because there’s so many trends. How do you understand something that is going to be worthwhile investing in, making it a product, something that you’re really going to build a whole story and brand around?It comes back to having two dualities at once inside of you. There are two olive oils inside of you at all times. Yeah, exactly. Like ruthless impatience coupled with remembering that time is always on your side. I’m able to take that duality and reality and be able to say, okay, there is a trend. We think this trend is really interesting because it’s going to make our customer feel XYZ. We’re going to hop on or lean into that trend. And at the same time, we’re going to say no to these 500 other trends. Of course. Because they’re not the right thing for us.I would not say that we are experts or we’ve really mastered that at all, to be totally honest with you. 2025 was a good example of a year where if I look back, I’m like, hmm, I think we could have actually been a little more trend driven. We weren’t. We were very, let’s really focus on what the consumer is asking for and let’s focus on certain occasions that were showing up for her. And that was kind of it.Being a founder and the CEO or a leader of any company does require you to make those decisions about creating stability when you could feel pressured to grow. It’s a hard balance to find. What I love about your approach is no matter what phase of the business you’re in, you are always looking for what comes next, which is why I’m so excited for you to talk about your five rules for finding inspiration. And your first rule talks about looking inward in your own life for finding something to inspire you. What’s your rule number one?Rule number one is getting offline and looking inward is absolutely the best place to find inspiration.Why?You just said there are so many trends out there. We are constantly looking at that brick. And what that means is we’re not just consuming, we’re absorbing other people’s energies, other people’s inspiration, other people’s goals and dreams, other people’s lives and content. I really like to shut off social media. And I think that it then creates more space. You’re looking around you. You’re looking around your house. You’re looking around when you’re waiting for an elevator instead of looking down at your phone. And you might see something. You might see a color. You might see a piece of artwork on the wall that you never noticed before. I hate saying that because it sounds so obvious and maybe 25 years ago, this wouldn’t have been one of my five rules.I see it with a lot of my friends who are business owners being zapped of creative inspiration, frankly, being zapped of energy to propel them forward in their businesses because they’re way too online.I totally agree. I start each day walking the dogs around the block with no phone.That’s amazing.Not taking every moment of your life to look at a phone or to get caught up in someone else’s energy is a really good way to think about your own experiences and to think about what’s going on in your life, either past or present, which is really a good spot to find inspiration and ties directly into your rule number two.Rule number two is transforming the obstacles that are in your life into creative fuel.That could be in the rudimentary, I’ll show you, I’ll show them, I’ll show myself, right? Which everyone kind of has that fire within them. Of course. That is something one can do rather than saying, I’m going to give up or I don’t believe I can. But instead saying, okay, this happened for me. How can I transform it? So that’s one way to do it. And then the other way is to also take a look more deeply and say, whether it’s grief or loss, how can I take memories and incorporate it into whatever I’m doing that’s artful, whether it’s into my writing or my poetry or into the work that I do, into the art that I create. I firmly believe it’s possible, but it requires you to go inward in the first place and create space to move through the emotions of heartbreak and sadness and grief and despair and disappointment to then come out on the other side.I’m not discounting heartbreak or sadness or any personal crisis because as we all know, that’s made a ton of great art. In fact, some of my favorite.Once you get past or maybe go through some of your inner crisis or emotions or maybe more of the standard spots for inspiration, finding new wells to tap is a big part of your rule number three.Embracing unconventional sources.Anytime that I’ve been seeing where people get inspiration lately, they say Pinterest. They say museums. Sure. There’s a lot of the usual suspects. Of course. But coming back to the unconventional sources, why don’t we open up some old magazines that we haven’t looked at? Open up a book in your shelf that you haven’t looked at in a while. I was doing this exercise where I was grabbing books and then opening to a random page and finding a word that I was really delighted by and then writing down that word and thinking about what that word meant in my life and then writing a little thing and then that turned into something. And so you can really start pulling threads.The more we are leaning into human-made inspiration, I do think Mother Earth can be an incredible source. Just go and look at the tree across from you. Give it a hug. Look at its details. Look up. Look around. You just don’t know what might find you.Rule number four is to revisit the past.And it’s something that I don’t think we do enough of. We’re always moving forward. We live in a capitalist society that constantly has us looking ahead. I do this thing where I look at all the old launches that we’ve had, whether it’s an olive oil or a vinegar, and I say, what did we do well here? What did I like? What didn’t I like? What can I bring from that? Because there’s something to it. We thought it was a great idea back then. Maybe we did it in the wrong way. How can we revive it? How can we give it new life? Or we thought it was a great idea and we did it in the right way. And what can we just bring into this moment?I think that that can be such a wonderful springboard. And it’s not just about work and your own projects. I do this with recipes. I look at the old recipes that I’ve tried out. And I think to myself, oh, I really liked this. What did I like about it? And how can I bring that back into what I’m doing today?So, if you’re feeling stuck, either emotionally or creatively or personally, you can always go back and look at something that once worked and use it as a moment to jump forward into the future. Which brings us to your fifth and final rule, which I really love.It’s to go outside your category.That’s hard to do when you’re in a leadership position or even just in a working position because you’re often asked to stay focused. But you are a big believer in inspiration through divergence.Yes. When you go outside your category, you get a whole new lens. And it has to be a category where you feel some delight. I love food and beverage. I work in food and beverage. So, sometimes going to a grocery store actually is a source of delight and can bring new inspiration. But sometimes it is feeling very insular and myopic. And I need to go look at the sneaker drop that happened. Or what happened in terms of what brands were activated at the U.S. Open. Or I need to go look at a wellness moment that’s going on or a spa that’s opening up and how are they talking about the experience.One of the most joyful examples was when I was looking for packaging for our honey jars. And I looked at perfume bottles and I was like, oh, my God, some of these perfume bottles are so cool and so interesting. Could we emulate that in some way with our honeys? And so the perfume bottle universe was what kind of sparked the idea of our honey bottles. And so go outside your category.That is such a beautiful, intentional moment of being open to influence. And it is such a great reminder that when you’re working in any category, especially if it’s product driven, that there are so many ideas and moments of inspiration from unexpected places. Aishwarya, thank you so much for sharing your Five Rules for Finding Inspiration. Where can people find your olive oil?Brightland.co and at Brightland on social.And if they wanted to check out your honeys, your vinegars, your new ghee, your new superfood honey or your new chili oil?All there. All at Brightland.co.And are you doing any in-person pop-ups or are there going to be any markets that people can find you?There will be some in-person pop-ups in Los Angeles. And we may or may not be opening up a space sometime in 2025.Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on Five Rules for the Good Life.Thank you so much. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Los Angeles Times restaurant critic Bill Addison to break down the art of reading restaurant lists to celebrate their annual 101 Best Restaurants in LA list. We talk through his Five Rules for Navigating a Restaurant List, what makes a place worth your time, how to spot the real gems, and why great dining recs go way beyond buzzy names with tasting menus. From affordable neighborhood spots to splurge-worthy tables, Bill shares how he evaluates restaurants and what it takes to make a place unforgettable. If you’ve ever planned a trip around where to eat (or wanted to), this one’s for you.This episode hits home, especially for someone who travels with their stomach leading the way. Bill gives a masterclass in parsing the hidden signals in a restaurant list—what’s missing, what’s included, and what it says about the person writing it. He also reminds us that real culinary culture lives not just in the fancy spots, but in the mom-and-pop joints and immigrant-run kitchens that define a city’s soul. Whether you’re planning your next big trip, trying to eat better in your own backyard, or just want to level up your restaurant intel, this is required listening.It’s the holiday season!The good people of Now Serving have all of your holiday bases covered with a bounty of beautifully signed books for all of your gift-giving needs. Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I sit down with my friend and restaurant critic for the Los Angeles Times, Bill Addison, who shares his five rules for navigating a restaurant list to celebrate the newspaper’s annual release of their 101 Best Restaurant List.He talks about the importance of trusting the experts, understanding the context of any list you delve into, and how by financially supporting newspapers and newsletters, you’ll get the most out of any research you read.It is an insightful conversation from one of the people behind one of the most influential lists in all of America.One technical note: there was a little bit of distortion during our recording, so please ignore any pops you might hear.So let’s get into the rules.Bill, so good to see you. Always a pleasure. Thank you for making time before the LA Times 101 Best Restaurant list drops. I know you’re a busy man, so I appreciate it.Great to see you there, and thank you for having me.We’ve talked a lot about finding and searching for new restaurants in your own city or abroad. Can you describe that feeling when you find a new place and it actually hits?Yeah, I’m thinking of a restaurant in Paris called Datil that I went to this summer that just blew me away. I mean, I almost wanted to cry through the meal. It was mostly vegetarian cooking, but it was done with such finesse. And it was something that I feel like we’re missing in California with all our crazy, beautiful bounty here. I just felt emotional through it.When something really hits, it hits more than the palate. It hits more than the senses. Yeah, it makes you think. It makes you feel. It just brings you back to your own humanity.I’ve found that when I find these places, it feels like I found another home. And I know that when people find those places, you are in the envious position of people wanting to share them with you. Especially in Los Angeles, as people go, like, I found this gem, I found the spot, is it on your radar?But I have to imagine it’s overwhelming. How do you handle so many recommendations coming to you all the time?I’m looking more than ever in my 20-plus years of reviewing restaurants for a narrative that grabs me. If someone kindly emails me and tells me about a wonderful Italian restaurant in their neighborhood, I will certainly go to the website and scan the menu. But what gets representative of that cuisine, which is really many regional cuisines, on restaurant menus in America is often quite repetitive.I’m always excited when somebody thinks outside the box, cooks from their own perspective, cooks from an intense curiosity that led them to some sort of contextual expertise. That just doesn’t apply to Italian food. That applies to every cuisine on the globe.The known beauty of Los Angeles is that so many of them are here or so many of them will show up because our immigrant communities are what give the city meaning.That’s one of the things a lot of people have come to love and respect about your own list, the 101 best restaurants in Los Angeles, is that it is diverse. It does represent a lot of the city.How do you marry an editorial approach with utility when putting the list together?I am thinking about excellence and narrative or representation in equal amounts. Excellence is so subjective, but it’s very easy—or has been easy—in considering restaurant culture to just default to the fanciest, most ambitious restaurants.I love that this decade, this moment in restaurant culture, for people who really care about dining, care about this subject, we all know that excellence comes in many, many forms.It is amazing. My job, our job, is to think about that as broadly and as deeply as possible, which includes an awful lot of research and eating and following up and asking myself where a specific restaurant fits within the fabric of the community.I think it’s really interesting to look at the community on both sides of the list—both those who are being put on it and those who are using it—either those who are locals or those who are coming to a city, whether it’s LA, Florence, Tokyo.Because a lot of times you can look at these lists, especially when the numbers are in the 10, 20, 30, 40 recommendations and not sure how to use it, not sure how to read it. Which is why I’m so excited to have you here to share your five rules for navigating a restaurant list.All right. Before we get into the rules, though, you mentioned you wanted to set up a little bit of framing, which I think is great because sometimes people just open a list and they haven’t even asked themselves, what am I looking for?So let’s set the personal parameters of how you’re setting up your five rules before we get into the rules themselves.I would say I present these rules, these thoughts, with the hypothesis that the listener knows, first of all, what they’re looking for or what interests them in a restaurant list at any given moment.Are you looking for fresh inspiration? Are you looking for the worthiest splurge to celebrate a special occasion? Does the guide double for you as a cultural read?The best lists probably address more than one of these needs. That’s the context when I thought through these five rules.There’s a lot of thought that went into these rules. There’s a lot of research that goes into these lists.I think it’s fair to say that not all lists are created equal. Some are written from one point of view, and some are crowdsourced.Your first rule focuses on picking the list by someone who’s done all of the research. What’s your rule number one?Rule number one is: Believe in expertise.We do live in an age of all-around distrust. Media more than ever seems to bring out the negativity bias baked into our human survival mechanisms.The number two and number three top ranked restaurants in Los Angeles on TripAdvisor—no shade, no judgment. Number two is Bubba Gump Shrimp Company. And number three is a Denny’s.I want people to believe in those of us who are paid to eat, even if you don’t wholeheartedly agree with opinions of specific writers, because we really do have your interests at heart when we write a big list. We’re thinking within the context of a citywide dining scene.And I think all good lists have a specificity to them, right? They nod to the obvious but also hope to encourage you in new directions, to point out people and cuisines that bring novel or specific perspectives.That context and specificity can be easily missed if you just skip the opening, go straight to the spots listed, and say, “I don’t understand this perspective that’s being shared.”Your second rule says, “Hold on, before you scroll down, read first.” What’s your second rule?Rule number two: Give the introduction a chance.Now listen, a lot of us are scarred from internet recipes that have nine paragraphs. Rarely do the introductions to restaurant lists have nine paragraphs because we know no one is going to read nine thick paragraphs.That opening crunch of words that most people scroll by as fast as possible to just get to the names of restaurants—it’s totally understandable. But taking the 90 seconds to breeze through the introduction might ultimately save you time.It’s where the writer is telling you a little bit more about what they’re up to beyond the clickbait headline and what that reveals.When I’m researching a trip, for example, and I’m sifting through lists and I see, let’s say, a writer prominently mentions Michelin-starred restaurants in a given city, that might tell me that this writer is almost in a dialogue about whether she agrees with inspector ratings or not. So that’s a choice.And maybe that’s what I want in Tokyo, but not what I want in Philadelphia.Lists that focus only on the high ends of dining miss a huge part of any culinary scene—from food options to storytelling. Your third rule talks about scanning the list for these types of restaurants. What’s your rule number three?Rule number three, scan for the more affordable restaurants. Their inclusion speaks volumes. Yes. It’s important when writing a great restaurant list to plant a flag on your opinions of the greatest tasting menu restaurants, the places worth fighting for reservations. That’s important. But I’m always super interested in what a writer chooses for the more affordable neighborhood restaurants and why. They say so much about the research that went into the article. I’m looking for some engaging choices specifically that illuminate the immigrant communities in any given city. You get to know a neighborhood by its character, by its cultural flavor that bleeds into the restaurants. I want to know where do the locals eat when they’re not spending a crazy amount of money? Where do the locals eat when they want something fast and fantastic like Holbox? Holbox is one of my favorite restaurants to recommend. It checks every single box. It’s so beautifully affordable and it’s a lens into Los Angeles.Being able to see those restaurants and to know about these restaurants is something that I feel lucky enough to have gotten off of certain lists. And not all those lists are free. Sometimes you have to support them. We’ve all heard democracy dies in the dark. True. And that’s sometimes because they can’t afford their electric bill. Your fourth rule talks about putting your money where your mouth is. What’s your rule number four? Rule number four, splurge for a subscription. And it’s not a big splurge. It’s not a big splurge. Most daily newspapers in America have some sort of $1 for the first three or six months. Yeah. Give us a shot. Speaking for myself, the Los Angeles Times pays for all my meals. I go to restaurants multiple times. They support knowledge. They support expertise through experience. Also, try out the monthly option for a Substack written by a person who had caught your eye doing interesting restaurant content on their social media. Yeah. They’re trying to support themselves. They’re trying to build an independent media company, essentially. I’m thinking of Vittles in London, I think is the greatest example of a newsletter that has grown into a small media company pulling in slash supporting multiple voices and seeking out the obscurest possible gems.We’re all dubious of capitalism these days, but we’re all still living in it and expertise subsists on investment. It’s amazing how many of these major publications have invested in food, have put resources behind this type of journalistic coverage. Because, not to date myself, when I started traveling for food, I was checking Chow Hound, E. Gullet, regional newspapers for maybe a glimmering of a mention of food, a restaurant or dish to try out. What it taught me is that once you find a spot or two, it always pays, especially in a new city, to see if that place pops up somewhere else, which is a big part of your fifth and final rule. Cross check lists, especially if you’re traveling to eat. Especially is light. Yes. You have to if you’re traveling to eat. Yes.This past summer, during a trip to Paris, we were there to celebrate a close friend’s 50th birthday. He chose Paris because he’d never been before. I hadn’t been in a decade. There were five to eight people to plan meals around at any given time. And it was my job to organize it all. Of course. Of course. But you live for this. You live for this. I do live for it. It was my pleasure, right? Heavy is the head, right? Right. I read all the lists. I went to Eater. I went to Condé Nast Traveler. Our dearly departed Emily Wilson and her newsletter, The Angel, because Emily goes to Paris a lot. For my subscription splurge that made planning so much easier, I ponied up for the Paris by Mouth newsletter. Oh, shout out. Yeah, which has lists and lists and lists. Organized by overall greatness, by geography, by days of the week and holidays even. Meg does great work. She does great work. I looked through all of them. I saw who leaned fancy, who leaned scrappy, where tastes intersected.Over and over again, as one example, writers mentioned Breit’s Cafe. I hope I’m pronouncing that correctly. The Normandy Galette spot. Great sparkling pear cider from Normandy. And you know what? Affordable, total win with everyone. Everyone was so happy. And within walking distance from the Picasso Museum. Yep. Our group had a strong Lebanese contingent. My best friend, she’s Lebanese. I wanted to make sure that she and her family were impressed. And cross-checking pointed me to a tiny place called Kubri that is Lebanese, blends innovation and tradition in the cooking, woman chef, which was a real plus. Absolutely loved it. It was the only restaurant that I went back to twice on that trip because I was so taken by it. Seeing places more than once gave me confidence that not only I, but the people I was planning for would really love it. And then I could write my own newsletter, name checking all the places I’d loved in Paris. And I could give appropriate credit to the writers and publications that pointed me towards success.And that for me is the implied sixth rule, which is paying it forward feels really good. It feels really good. There is this place called Osteria, Vini e Vecchi Sapori. It’s in Florence. We got it off an Eater list. I’ve been there. I probably sent you there. You probably didn’t send me there. It is the number one spot of our family in Italy. We got off the list. Anytime anyone goes there, we send them there. We have credit where credit’s due. Bill, so excited to see the 101 drop December 9th. If people want to pick up a copy of the physical list or they want to read it online, where can they go? What can they do? They can go to latimes.com forward slash 101. And then it’s going to be in print on the following Sunday, the 14th in the LA Times. If you have a print subscription and if not, and you love print, you can order it from the LA Times online store. It’s one of my favorite events. It’s the industry’s holiday party before everyone either scuttles off back to the restaurant or everyone disappears back home for the holidays. Bill, always a pleasure. I can’t wait to share another meal with you in the new year. So looking forward to it. I’ll probably pull a recommendation off your list. Please do. Thank you for having me, Darin. Thank you. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Ron Silver and Liz Clarke of Bubby’s in New York—two seasoned pie‑makers sharing the love, technique, and legacy behind their famous slices. From why the harvest of apples and pumpkins gave rise to the American fruit pie, to the very technical details of dough temperature, cutting butter to the right size, and letting the crust rest properly, they walk us through Bubby’s Five Rules for How to Bake Pie at Home. Whether you’re a complete beginner or a pro pie maker, you’ll walk away from the episode with actionable tips that actually make a difference. If you’re ready to level up your holiday baking game, their cookbook Homemade Pies is the perfect companion.I’ve always believed that baking is part science, part story, especially when it’s something as comforting as homemade pie. What I love about this episode is how Ron and Liz blend both so seamlessly, the precision of insider knowledge, with the warmth of tradition. As someone trying to bake more intentionally (and maybe a little less messily), hearing these masters break it down with clarity and passion is pure gold. If you know me, you know I love my turkey necks, a long-standing family tradition that we observe when celebrating Thanksgiving. For everyone who’s ever asked, here is my Mom’s recipe. You can make them any time you want, just make sure you make enough. TranscriptHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. To kick off the holiday season, I’m sitting down with Ron Silver, the chef and owner of Bubby’s in New York City, and Bubby’s executive chef, Liz Clarke.Today, we’re chatting everything pie as they share Bubby’s five rules for how to bake pie at home. They talk about how temperature is the key to everything, how shaping your dough will lead to a less leaky slice, and how resting your pie at the right time will create the perfect slice every time. It’s a great mini masterclass for anyone who’s ever wanted to start baking at home—and some real insider tips for anyone who considers themselves a professional baker.So let’s get into the rules.Ron and Liz, so nice to meet you. The holiday season is upon us, and I couldn’t think of two better people to kick it off with than you two.Thank you. Thank you so much for having us.Thanksgiving is right around the corner. Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa—everything’s coming up. The holiday season. Why does this time of year and pies work so well together?That is a deep, deep question, really. America really invented pie—the pie as we know it, like fruit pies. Before that, the Romans would have some sort of cooked meat wrapped in dough. And then the English developed these meat pies. But before America was really rolling, they didn’t have these fruit pies the way that we have them. A lot of that is because of the abundance of American agriculture and orchards. And this is harvest season for pumpkins and apples. Once you start harvesting, you’ve got to find something to do with them.Longtime fan of Bubby’s. And it was fun to learn that you started it as a pop-up for Thanksgiving with pies 35 years ago. What inspired you to start the restaurant there?What inspired me is my status of being unemployable. It’s always a good place to start. I’m an artist and… my choices were really to either start a restaurant—because that was my skill as a chef—or just because I really had developed a not-the-best attitude working with other chefs in the food of the eighties. I suppose that my attitude towards that food made it impossible for me to cook it. So I was either going to be a dishwasher or my own chef. That’s really how this—“pop-up” is generous—how Bubby’s got started, because we just opened up with no permission whatsoever.What a good time to be doing restaurants in New York. A lot less red tape during that time. I feel like New York City was really grateful to just have people trying to give it a go. Especially in that part of town.It really was quiet. There weren’t even traffic lights down here and it was kind of a no man’s land in a way. Although there were a lot of celebrities living down here because of the large loft spaces. They were really off the beaten path, you’d say.You guys literally wrote the book on homemade pies, which is for anyone who wants to start baking any time of the year—but especially for the holiday season—is a great tome to have in your kitchen. Why should people learn how to cook pies at home?It’s really a beautiful thing to do where you offset yourself and be relaxed and enjoy the steps to do it. There’s a connection of home and your family with pie. It’s not rushed. You take the steps to do it, and it comes out really well. So it’s sort of also an all-encompassing warmth in the house, because there’s nothing more all-encompassing than a baking pie coming out of the oven and getting ready to cut and all of that stuff. It’s an experience.There’s something about the phrase of a loved one saying, “I’m going to bake a pie,” especially for the holidays, that really warms the soul—which is why I’m excited for you to be sharing your five rules for how to bake a pie at home. I love the way you organize this because this really is a great chronological order of how to best prepare yourself and get ready if you’re either a well-seasoned pie maker or attempting it for the first time.What’s your rule number one?The number one rule that we have written down is always preheat your oven and make sure that your oven is really hot. But I think all the temperatures matter, and it’s good to be preparing dough in the coolest possible place in the house.Which leads us into rule number two: keeping the fat that you’re going to make the pastry with—and your hands—cool.The reality is, you usually will make your dough before you have to turn on the oven. We make the dough, keep everything as cool as possible, you put it into the refrigerator just to let the dough rest a little bit, and then you can preheat your oven before you bake. You really want to make sure it’s super hot.A lot of the times when people are working that dough, there is a bit of a mystery of how much to form it, how much to work it. And your rule number three talks about the right amount of work that goes into making the perfect dough.One of the things is really to cut the butter in small enough pieces and the fat—we use lard and butter. Having pieces that are pea-sized, that allows you to start working that fat into the dough quickly. And then adding the ice water, you really want to just scoop it together. Lift it and bind it, but not manhandle it. Go lightly and it will form itself into a ball. As you’re lifting up, you can feel the water, because it’s a very small amount of water moistening the flour. And then you just push it together into a ball as lightly as possible.That really creates space between the very simple ingredients, which is fat and water, and it allows for the steam pockets to form when it’s baking—and that’s what makes a flaky crust.Once you have that perfectly made dough, shaping it is the next point of artistry, which is a big part of your rule number four.Rule number four is to crimp and trim carefully. After you’ve formed a dough ball and rolled it out to less than an eighth of an inch, you never want to be pushing this dough around in any kind of rough way. You lay the bottom crust into the pan and then pour the filling in. And with the filling, we also don’t push that down. Everything is very much just sort of laid in there, because that allows for a crust surface that we find to be nice.The most important thing in this rule four is trimming the dough around the pie dish and then rolling it and crimping it properly. Otherwise, you get a lot of juice leaking out into the pan as opposed to staying in the pie.We’ve all experienced leaky pies, which can ruin all of the effort and all of the work that you put into rolling the dough and shaping it correctly.Your fifth and final rule deals again with temperature both before and after the bake. The after I knew, the before is new to me. What is your fifth and final rule?The fifth and final rule is cool your pie before you bake it and make sure you allow it to cool down properly after you’ve baked it. Before you’ve baked it is after you roll out the dough and crimp it, you want to give it a half hour to rest in the refrigerator so that the gluten has a chance to relax to make the flakiest possible crust.Just to get back to rule four, when you’re rolling and crimping, you want to make sure that it’s not overly thick. When you bake that, you end up with a raw part in the middle.And the other thing that I just want to say to go back to rule number one—the very hot part of the oven and the bake is only the first 10 or 11 minutes. The goal is to set that crust with a high temperature so that you basically started to bake the crust first, and then you turn the oven down—from say 425 to 350. You’re baking two things at the same time: you start the crust first, and then you focus on the filling next.Most people probably just leave it at one temp the whole time and let it ride.That’s a mistake, I would say.And then the final part before you slice and the presentation—it’s like anything that’s coming out of the oven, patience is key. How long would you recommend letting it wait before you slice and serve?Four hours. If I can hold my wrist on it—I have lots of children, so I’ve squirted a lot of milk onto my wrist—you want it to be a little bit cooler than body temperature to be able to hold the form of the fruit. Pumpkin pie really needs to set for about four hours before it’s ready to cut.I know you’re going to be busy for the holiday season serving up a ton of pies, and I appreciate you taking the time to tell the people at home the best tips and rules of how to bake pies for themselves. If people want to get the book, order pies from you, swing into the restaurant—where can they go?Bubbys.com. Come to our website. That’s the place to buy it.Have a great holiday season, and I hope to see you soon the next time I’m in New York.Thank you so much for having us on, and let us know when you’re in town.Yeah, we’ll share a slice together.That sounds great. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with India Doris, the co-owner and executive chef of Markette and The Argyle in Manhattan, whose journey from 15-year-old line cook to celebrated NYC chef is nothing short of extraordinary. From the competitive kitchens of Europe to the high-wire hustle of New York, India shares her Five Rules for Working in a Kitchen—lessons forged in long hours, sharp knives, and a relentless drive to stay humble, stay learning, and cook food you actually believe in. These are service-tested rules from someone who’s earned every stripe and every scar. If you’ve ever stepped onto the line, led a team under pressure, or just wondered what it takes to survive and thrive in the culinary world, this episode’s for you.But let’s be real—these rules aren’t just for chefs. Anyone working in a fast-paced, high-skill environment will find India’s advice spot on. Whether you’re pulling shots in a coffee shop, producing live TV, managing a startup team, or running a construction crew, the fundamentals are the same: show up prepared, focus on small daily wins, listen, and respect the people around you. Staying humble, staying kind, and staying curious is how you build trust, earn opportunities, and keep leveling up. This episode serves as a blueprint for growing without burning out, and for leading without losing sight of the goal.Photo by Natalie BlackFive Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptINTRODUCTIONHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I sit down with India Doris, the co-owner and executive chef at Markette and the Argyle in Manhattan.As a longtime journey chef, she started cooking in kitchens at the age of 15, working her way across the UK, Europe, and eventually winding up in New York City. She shares her five rules for working in a kitchen. It talks about the importance of having manageable daily goals, how to stay humble, and that by cooking your own food, you will eventually find success.So let’s get into the rules.EARLY JOURNEY & TRAININGIndia, so nice to meet you. Thank you for making the time, especially with the Argyle being open only a few weeks. I appreciate you sitting down for the show.Thanks for having me on the show. I appreciate it. There’s always stuff to do. It’s nice to take a second actually to just talk about it.So you’re originally from the UK and you wound up cooking through some legendary kitchens across Europe, which really harkens back to an older type of culinary training. How much of that old school mentality did you experience and what did you love about that time in your life?I feel like I experienced a lot of it. The first 10 years I experienced a lot. It was 17 hour shifts, 18 hour shifts, no breaks, not eating the amount I should be running around. But then it was very, it still is very competitive. But I think back then, because of the hours, because of the stress, because of all the pressure that gets put on an individual, you’re left with a really intense group of people.Yes. We’ve gotten better. We’re not working as many hours. It’s a lot more welcoming. But because of the hours and because of the demand, it definitely left a really intense group of people that you had to work against—or work with, sorry, not against.Wow.Depending on what kitchen you’re in and who’s leading it.It felt like that sometimes, yes. Sometimes it’s against on purpose.Yeah.MOVING TO NEW YORKYou cook across Europe. You meet this incredible group of people. You could have planted a flag anywhere. What drew you to the kitchens of New York?New York is a special place.Yeah, you can say that again.I’m from London. I’m a city girl, born and bred in the city. Love it. I know what it’s like to run around in the city causing trouble and doing dumb teenage stuff. At a young age, I became a little bit of a nomad. I moved all over the place. I moved to France and Spain, and I came here. I was only supposed to be here for a year. I was going to go to Australia after. I was like, all right, let me start my visa for Australia while I was here, because I stayed here for a year. I was like, I want to stay longer, but it wasn’t working out that way. Let me go home first.I miss New York so much. I was like, wow, I haven’t had this feeling before because as a good nomad does, they travel all over the place. They want to see new places. But I was really drawn by it because I was getting a little bit older. To find a city that felt similar but different was something that drew me back.So I ended up coming back and I’ve been here for nine years now.New York just gets in your blood. Once you’ve experienced the kitchens of New York and the food and the community here, it’s hard to walk away from it.DECIDING TO OPEN HER OWN PLACEWhat was the moment you realized that you wanted to open up your own spot and you were ready to run your own kitchen in New York City?After a couple of decades of working under people, seeing different parts of the world, the way they work, how they work for extensive amount of time. Then coming to New York, when I first came here, I worked under James Kent. I was with him for eight years. We opened up Crown Shy, we got one star in 10 months. We opened up Saga, we got two stars in six months.Incredible.All of the information that I gathered from traveling, from seeing different places, from meeting all these people. When you’re a really young chef, you cook people’s food, and I think it’s an important thing to cook people’s food because you really start to learn what your food is. When I was a young cook, I would go and work in these incredible Michelin-style places, and I learned how to be an adult in these kitchens. You know? I worked in kitchens from 15 years old. I know how to be an adult. That’s a bad thing and a good thing. I was living on my own at 16 paying rent. I was taught by these crazy people how to be, how to run my life.After working with James, he was probably the nicest, most calm, productive chef I’ve ever worked for. And after a few years of working with him, I’m like, yeah, I really just don’t want to work with anyone else.Totally.I did learn so much from that. I learned how to refine my own food. But however many years later, I’ve realized that I’ve got a good understanding of what my own food is. And I’ve only been able to do that from cooking from other people and learning from other people and doing all this. I was like, well, I got to do this on my own now.RULE 1: KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN AND YOUR KNIFE SHARPBeing able to work in all these kitchens at such a relatively young age, it’s really amazing for you to be able to have distilled all that knowledge, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for working in a kitchen.Your first rule deals with something that I learned with working on the other side, which was when I had to shoot with chefs and come into their kitchen, being prepared both mentally and physically. What’s your rule number one?Rule number one, and this is something that I learned from when I was very, very young. I was working in kitchens full time from 15. I was doing a ridiculous amount of hours. You know, the road is very long. You have a long way to go and you have a lot of people to learn from to get to the goal that you want to get to.Someone said to me one day, keep your head down and your knife sharp.They said it in a lot of different ways than I’m saying it now.It was not as kind.You need to learn from as many people as possible. And to be honest, you need to want people to want to teach you how to do stuff. If you’re running around blabbing your mouth and doing all this and that, no one’s going to want to teach you. The one thing that you need to do as a young cook who doesn’t know anything is keep your head down and your knife sharp and just watch what everyone else is doing.RULE 2: HAVE DAILY MANAGEABLE GOALSThat dovetails really nicely into your second rule because it’s easy to be in a kitchen, to be talking about all these big plans and these big pictures and what you’re going to do, but that’s not the task at hand of how to survive and succeed working in a kitchen. What’s your second rule?My second rule is have daily manageable goals. That’s important. We all have these goals. I had this dream when I was 15. I’m going to do this and I’m going to do that. That’s all great. I think that’s an important thing to have. But you need to have daily manageable goals in order to get to this bigger beyond.If you cut chives by 2:40 today, then by 2:35 tomorrow, you’re going to cut the chives. They’re going to be done. They’re going to be put away.I love that.And then the next day it’s going to be 2:32 and 2:30. And then you slowly start pulling back and pulling back and you hone in the area that you’re at, the things that you’re doing. They’re getting better. They’re getting stronger. You’re getting stronger. And this is how you get to that bigger goal.RULE 3: STAY HUMBLE, STAY LEARNINGI also love that your third rule touches on something that is important in kitchens but often forgotten—humility. What’s your third rule?Stay humble, stay learning. You have to stay humble. You always need to be learning. That’s something that I’ve realized has helped me develop so much as a chef. I’ve worked with all these people and I’ve seen all these places, and I know what’s good and I know what’s bad, but I’m not done yet. I want to learn more. I want to see more. And I think the more you stay humble, the more you stay learning. The moment you think you know everything, you’re going to fall. You’re going to fall hard. You’re going to fall real hard.It’s the truth.So just keep your ears open. And you might learn from a 15-year-old line cook. You might learn from a server who’s just joined. You might learn from a dishwasher who’s been doing this longer than you have.Absolutely.Everyone around you has something to teach you. Stay humble and stay learning.RULE 4: COOK YOUR OWN FOODNow your fourth rule is something I’ve heard chefs struggle with, especially when they move from being part of someone else’s team to leading their own kitchen. What’s your fourth rule?Cook your own food. That’s my fourth rule. When you’re young, you want to emulate everyone that you admire, which is great. But at a certain point, you have to stop mimicking and start creating.You’ve got to figure out what your food is.It might take you 10 years. It might take you 20. You’re not going to get it right every time. But the more you cook your own food—flavors that resonate with you, ideas that inspire you—the closer you’ll get to being a great chef. That’s when people will take notice. That’s when you’ll really start to feel confident. And that’s when your guests will connect with what you’re doing.RULE 5: STAY CONSISTENT, STAY KINDYour fifth rule is a great one because it combines two things that matter in every part of life, not just in the kitchen. What’s your fifth rule?Stay consistent, stay kind. You’ve got to be consistent in your actions, in your dishes, in how you treat people. But more importantly, you’ve got to be kind. Kind to your team, kind to your vendors, kind to the dishwashers, to the people who come through the door. Because when you’re kind, people remember. People want to work with you.Absolutely.And in this industry, where burnout is real and egos can run high, kindness stands out. It really does. It’s powerful.CLOSINGIndia, thank you so much for sharing your five rules. If people want to come check out your food, where can they go?Come to Markette or The Argyle in Manhattan. We’re doing something really special here. And we’d love to cook for you.Amazing. Thank you again for being on the show.Thanks for having me. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with chef, restaurateur, and author Arnold Myint, whose new cookbook Family Thai: Bringing the Flavors of Thailand Home is a love letter to legacy, flavor, and family. We talk about the roots of his family’s Nashville restaurant, International Market, the stories behind his mom’s recipes, and the responsibility of passing culinary traditions down. Arnold shares his Five rules for Mastering a Family Recipe, everything from staying true to the original version and then knowing when it’s time to make it your own. It’s heartfelt, emotional, and packed with wisdom for anyone who’s ever cooked with a recipe card stained in sauce and memories.This one got me in my feelings. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how to preserve my own family’s food history, how my grandmother’s cauliflower soup can still stop me in my tracks with just one spoonful, or how my mom’s turkey necks have quietly become my comfort food of choice. These are the recipes that shaped me. They live in my hands, my head, and hopefully soon, in my kids’ memories too. Arnold’s story is a beautiful reminder that it’s not just about what’s on the plate, it’s about who taught you to make it, who you share it with, and how those flavors get passed down like heirlooms. I’m looking forward to the day when my kids ask to learn how to make those dishes, and I’ll be ready, recipe card in hand.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with my dear friend, Arnold Myint, whose new book, Family Thai: Bringing the Flavors of Thailand Home, is out now on Abrams Books. He shares his five rules for mastering a family recipe. He talks about the importance of cooking the original dish without adding any of your deviations, that listening to your ancestor’s voice is a great way to guide your hand in the kitchen, and that sharing the story behind any recipe is a great way to honor its legacy. It’s a fantastic conversation with great insights for anyone who owns a restaurant and wants to continue the tradition of their family cooking or anyone who wants to honor their own family legacy in their kitchen at home. So let’s get into the rules.Arnold, it’s so good to see you. It’s been too long. Thank you so much for making time during your crazy book schedule and sit down for the show. What an honor and a pleasure.Hey Darin, it’s good to see you too. You’re right. It has been way too long, but you know what? Full circle moment. It’s great to be here.What I love about your life and your background is that food has always been a huge part of your upbringing and your life. What are the dishes that you remember from your childhood that still inspire you or still speak to you today?Oh, it’s funny because I work in food and some people might think it’s fancy food. But for me, what turns me on are the things that are so comfortable and more like a timestamp of memories. My mom was always the spokesperson of the restaurant. I wasn’t really raised by the food that we served. I was raised by the food at home. And my dad was a professor and we had the same schedule because he had to get up to go to school and I had to get up. Something that just really puts a smile on my face is he made really great breakfasts for me. The best part of waking up is hearing sauteed onions going into German potato hash browns and a hint of lime lemon juice on some just smashed charred potatoes in a skillet with caramelized onions. And then I would get an egg choice. I would either get a soft boiled egg or I would get a scrambled egg sandwich or a soft fried egg Asian style white Wonder Bread toast still spongy enough to soak up and get mushy in the egg yolk. For me to this day whenever I’m with a group on a vacation rental or I have guests home I’ll just fry an onion just to turn everybody on. I don’t even plan on making food but just start with that and it puts everybody in a good mood.I love that your dad cooked at home and your parents had this incredible restaurant, International Market, that’s been in Nashville since 1975. You and your sister took it over in 2021. Why was it so important for you and your family to share Thai food with the community?Well, I had no choice because I was born into it. I think there was a bassinet that said, I know I’m cute, but please don’t touch. Wow. The original hostess of the restaurant. And then I started to create a dinner theater because I was roller skating, giving shows to the guests while they were eating when I was a kid.Incredible.Amazing.It was meant to be, right?For my mother, it was a means of survival. She was in Nashville in the 70s with my dad trying to acclimate to a culture and society she didn’t know nothing about. She needed some sort of comfort. And I don’t think a ham and biscuit was what her vision of comfort was.Of course.Luckily, my dad went to school in upstate New York and had resources and connections in larger cities. So they discovered there were accessible things in larger cities that they had to bring down if they wanted to have the flavors that reminded them of home. Buying in bulk is cheaper.Sure.So she needed a way to afford it to where she could eat, but she had a surplus of ingredients. So it was just almost by necessity that she started selling it so she could have free food.I got it.So she would buy in bulk and she’s like, well, what do I do? I’m going to open a market. Well, nobody’s buying from the market. They don’t know what to do with it. Well, I’m going to open up a steam table and display the food so people can get samples of it so I can sell it. It was a means of satisfying some homesickness through food unknowingly molding a culture and society of Asian food in the South.It was pretty special.It is really special. And you’ve captured their story and the story of the restaurant in your first cookbook, Family Thai: Bringing the Flavors of Thailand Home, which came out October 7th, which is technically your second baby because you have your beautiful daughter, Henley.Yes.What of these recipes did you want to pass on from your parents to her?We’ve known each other for a little bit. And you knew when I was kind of toying with the wanting the child, you just had your baby when we were hanging out. I’m in LA. She was born when my deadline for my book was due. She came about a week and a half early, which wasn’t too dramatic, but just dramatic enough. I was holding her in one hand with a pillow with my computer in my other hand, trying to type my deadline at three in the morning.I love it.In terms of the recipes in the book, that was really easy. It really comes from when my mom passed away and we started getting overflow of messages from loyal customers that just loved my mom for 40 plus years. I just knew I had to archive her stuff for everyone.Of course.The story was either your mom would bring us in the kitchen and she would teach us, or she came to our house and showed us, or I’m so sad I never got to finish her promise of learning how to make this.Right.Being that my sister was in fashion and I was the one in food, it’s my responsibility almost to continue this legacy and archive these recipes for everyone. And in the same breath, I also know my mother would not want me to be stagnant in my career. I needed to cook how I cook with the foundational outline of what this food should be in her mind. Basically, I felt like I was given the green light to elevate what she had laid out for me to begin with.Sure.In the book, it’s mom’s version, not the Thai way, but mom’s Thai way, plus my Thai way on top of that.Which is amazing.Yeah.Preserving that legacy of recipes, especially when your family is centered around food is really important. Even having the courage and the conviction to start cooking your family’s recipes takes a lot, which I learned from cooking from my grandmother’s and my own mother’s recipes.Yeah.Which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for mastering your family recipe. And the very first rule is probably the hardest one because it really is about getting started and sticking with it. What is your first rule?Rule number one is to commit to the original recipe and not deviate from it for a while.Mm-hmm.It’s tough.Yes.Baby bird is taught and encouraged to fly out of the nest and move on.With its own style of flying.With its own flight.Yeah.When I was thinking about writing a cookbook, long before I actually got the cookbook deal, I was starting to archive recipes, not knowing where it would go.Of course.So I remember this one day, I called my mother and I was like, I need Yaya’s shumai recipe. Yaya is Chinese for grandma. We’ve served this recipe for four decades at the restaurant. My mom was on the phone and she was going through it and I was trying to dissect it because she doesn’t have chef’s language, right?Of course.A little this, but a little that. And I’m trying to understand and transcribe it. And right before we hung up, she goes, hey, hey, hey. And I could hear her calling me back to the phone. She goes, please, whatever you do, do not change this recipe. For many reasons, it’s perfect. Be good. I love you. Three days later, she passes away unexpectedly.I’m so sorry.That was our last conversation was that recipe.So not to go there.No, of course.So for me, it’s very special. And for me, the aunties in the kitchen at the restaurant that have been making this dumpling since before I was born and have the ritual on every Monday as we make 2,000 dumplings, we’re not deviating from this recipe ever. And when I make it, I know that’s the reason why.Mm.And people can taste it. The generations of people that come into the restaurant to eat it, they have shared this with their children who now have children. It’s become a staple in so many people’s lives, including my own. I kind of have burnt out on eating them, but every time I go back to that one bite on Dumpling Day, it’s magic.It transports me.That transportation is something that I always feel when I’m cooking one of my grandmother’s recipes because it feels like she’s talking to me or talking me through it as I cook, which ties directly into your rule number two.That transportation is something that I always feel when I’m cooking one of my grandmother’s recipes because it feels like she’s talking to me or talking me through it as I cook, which ties directly into your rule number two.Rule number two is to cook with your ancestor’s voice. It’s about muscle memory. It’s about channeling the voice in your head that taught you how to make that recipe. And for me, my mom is always there, especially when I’m unsure or second-guessing myself. I can hear her going, “No, no, no, that’s not how you do it,” or “Add a little more sugar,” or “Don’t overcook the noodles.” Even though she’s not physically here, her energy, her wisdom, and her taste are always guiding me. And that gives me a sense of comfort and confidence when I’m cooking something so personal.That’s one of the biggest joys of cooking something from your family’s history—the comfort and connection it gives you. And now that you’re a parent, you’re starting that next generation of memories and meals, which leads us to rule number three.Rule number three is to share the story behind the recipe. Food is great, but food with a story? That’s next level. When you tell someone where a dish came from, who taught it to you, or what it meant to your family, that dish becomes something more than just something you eat. It becomes emotional. It becomes memorable. It carries the weight and warmth of history. I always say, if you’re going to cook for someone, give them the full experience. Tell them why it matters. That’s the way to honor your family and the recipe at the same time.That’s something we talk a lot about on this show. The why behind the what. And food is such a powerful vehicle for stories, for keeping legacies alive, which brings us to rule number four.Rule number four is to write it down—but only after you’ve cooked it several times. Recipes evolve. Measurements change. Your taste grows. But you want to document the version that feels the most true to the spirit of the original. So don’t write it down after your first try. Wait. Cook it a few times. Let the muscle memory kick in. Then, when you’ve nailed the flavor and the feel, put it to paper. That way you preserve it for future generations in the most authentic way.Which is what you’ve done with this book. You’ve honored your family’s story, your mother’s voice, and also added your own flavor—literally and figuratively. And that brings us to your fifth and final rule.Rule number five is to teach it forward. Don’t let it stop with you. Teach your kid. Teach your niece. Teach your neighbor. It doesn’t have to be formal. Just invite them into your kitchen. Let them chop. Let them stir. Let them taste. And tell them why it matters. That’s how you make sure the recipe lives on—not just in a book, but in the people who keep cooking it.Arnold, this was such a wonderful conversation. Congratulations on Family Thai. Where can people get the book?It’s available everywhere books are sold, online and in your local bookstore. And follow me on Instagram @arnoldmyint for more cooking tips, stories, and behind-the-scenes looks at the recipes.Amazing. Thank you for sharing your rules and your story. I can’t wait to cook some of these dishes at home—and maybe get one of those dumplings from the steam table in Nashville.I’ll save you one, Darin. Thanks again for having me. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Josh Donald and Kelly Kozak, the duo behind Bernal Cutlery in San Francisco. For twenty years, they’ve built a world-class knife shop rooted in craftsmanship, curiosity, and community. What started with a few sharpening stones has evolved into a creative hub for makers, master craftsmen, and cooks alike. In our conversation, they share their Five Rules for Staying Teachable, which include staying humble, opening yourself to new ideas, and moving forward even when you think you’ve mastered your craft. It’s a reminder that no matter how far you’ve come, there’s always room to grow if you stay curious.There’s something about hearing Josh and Kelly talk about staying open—after two decades in the game, that reminded me why I still love doing what I do. I’ve built shows, books, podcasts, and brands, but I’m still learning every day. I still want to get better. Still want to be pushed. Whether it’s cooking, writing, or parenting, I’m always searching for that edge, that feeling that there’s more out there to master if I lean in and stay teachable. Their story isn’t just inspiring, it’s grounding. A reminder that growth isn’t a milestone, it’s a mindset.Photo by Molly DeCoudreauxFive Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with two icons from the world of knife making, Josh Donald and Kelly Kozak, who are co-founders and co-owners of Bernal Cutlery, which is celebrating its 20th anniversary this year. They join me today to share their five rules for staying teachable. They talk about their continued practice of sharing knowledge, how they keep their original intent in their daily mindset, and that the only way to grow is to keep pushing yourself into uncomfortable territory. This is a great conversation for anyone who is interested in learning a skill, running a small business, or anyone who is looking for inspiration to keep learning new things every day. So let’s get into the rules. Josh and Kelly, so great to see you two again. Congratulations, 20 years of vernal cutlery. Always a pleasure to sit down and chat with you too. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much for having us. You started the business two decades ago, sharpening knives, which is an artistic skill unto itself. When you got started, how did you learn those initial skills? What was your mindset back then?There was making ends meet and there was having fun and they were kind of both interplaying with each other. Initially it was, hey we have 40 bucks let’s get this business going a little bit, bought a second stone to sharpen with. And then it was, hey it sucks only sharpening with two stones, let’s try and find a little machine that will work with this. And then it was, hey we’ve got 80 bucks that we could bring down to the flea market and see about buying some knives to resell.I just remember it so much differently because he was really frustrated with that learning process. And I remember him staying up all night, sharpening a pair of pruners and a lot of, how are we going to ever make money at this? I remember you telling me to stop going to the flea market at one point too. You’re like, can you just skip it? Why don’t you go later in the morning? But it was like, no, man, you got to get there at 5am. You don’t find the good s**t if you get there at 10. Yeah. That frustration, especially early on, could keep you from going forward.But you go from sharpening knives and refurbishing knives to getting the idea to make your own. What was that deciding factor to start making your own knives? What were some of your earlier mistakes that you had to push through? Oh. We’re still pushing through them. Yeah. The thing with pushing and with doing new stuff is that you have to get really comfortable with doing things badly. Especially if you’ve gotten used to doing something well. If you’re doing new stuff, if you’re trying to push it, you will find yourself doing something you don’t know how to do. None of this is anything that we’ve done 100% by ourselves either. Whether that’s having people on our crew that we’ve done this with, whether that’s reaching out to outside help in one way or another. Being stubborn and not being too stubborn, it’s a funny formula.What I love about how much you guys have done is that you continue to teach and give back to those who want to learn. Why is it so important to you to pass along what you’ve learned and to teach the next generation of knife makers? For me, I have a real general mantra is that I can’t keep what I have unless I give it away. There’s this sense of generosity, kind of all the senses of the word generosity, right? Generosity with allowing people to change and grow. Generosity with maybe not knowing a full story or a full aspect of a process. Or generosity with, I see that you’re a budding line cook. Let me try to hook up a nice deal with these three things for you so that you can get started at your job. All the senses of generosity.I really enjoy teaching because I didn’t have anybody to teach me when I was learning how to sharpen. And there were certain things that took me a really long time to figure out that I’m able to share with people in my classes that makes me happy to be like, hey, just so you know, if you do this, you’re going to skip over two years of trial and error. Right. And then there’s just the sharing of knowledge with our customers about just dorky stuff if they’re interested. Then I think then people can kind of get another sense of appreciation for old stuff and they’ll be excited to see what I found. Or they might think that you’re being too generous. Usually I can tell when they’re trying to inch away.For those who haven’t been lucky enough to be in the store or learn directly from you, I’m really excited for you to share your five rules for staying teachable, which can be applied to either knife making, knife sharpening, or just life in general. You have picked such an elevated craft. Your first rule gives you this mental approach to let you really have fun with it. What’s your rule number one? Rule number one is don’t take yourself too damn seriously. And it’s actually rule number 62 in the recovery community. It’s a very well-known rule. Having the option to be wrong is always really important with learning. You kind of stop learning if you stop questioning things a bit.Outside of the main categories of what we do here, we also run a store. Yes. We are a small business. Of course. This rule is really important to me just in the context of working in a community with people and trying to do our best work, to be our best selves when we show up at the door. And what this rule means for me is to like, don’t forget the joy. Don’t forget these are the things that really matter: creating a great place to work, creating good products that we’re putting out there in the world, good experiences, and that we’re able to maintain good relationships with each other.As you have grown and you have the store, you have a reputation, you’ve become a leader in the industry, it’s sometimes easy to forget where it all started. But remembering your origins is a guiding principle of your rule number two. That’s right. Shorthand in Japanese is Shoshin, beginner’s mind. Remembering what it was like to learn the stuff in the first place, bringing yourself back to your original intention, remembering the learning process and that you are still part of it. And then also folding in the perspective of having succeeded at something when I’m trying something that is potentially not going to be easy and that I will have missteps. It allows me to be a little bit kinder to myself if I don’t get it 100% right the first time or the second. Even if it seems like, oh, 20 years is a long time, it’s like, nah, 20 years really isn’t. A lot of these things people have been working on for hundreds and hundreds of years, and it’s all an ongoing process, right?Being in any profession for 20 years, someone might immediately write off people just getting started or those younger than them as not knowing anything and not listening to them. But I’ve always felt that fresh perspectives keep you learning and keep pushing your own ideas forward, which ties directly into rule number three. Learning from young people and people who are beginners when you are not is f*****g bomb. I wrote that rule and I wrote it thinking about the teenagers that I’m currently living with. But specifically to our industry, sometimes we have people that come through and do a stage with us and then they go off and open up their own operation. You’ll see them get something or get good at something and then it’s contagious. The joy and the confidence boost that they get is contagious.Being able to appreciate what people are good at and not feel threatened by it is really important to you as a business person, as a craftsperson. Being able to be stoked by people getting something right and seeing somebody do well brings to mind that we each have different things that we’re good at. Maybe if I don’t hate somebody that’s doing that kind of work, I can watch them work and learn something from them. That openness to learning, having that flexibility is a great way to keep moving your own skills forward, which is a big part of your rule number four, which also does dovetail with rule number three.What’s your fourth rule? Teach to be teachable. For me, when I’m teaching people how to sharpen, I have to put myself in their shoes and I have to think about what would it sound like for them to hear what I’m saying? So how do I better say what I want them to do? It helps me to stay in that mind frame of somebody learning. That resonates with me with teaching people how to sell at the counter. Whenever we hire somebody, inevitably, we get this almost deer in the headlight where I have to remind people, you’re never going to get to be at a place of being the expert behind the counter. And we don’t really want necessarily experts behind the counter. We just want you to be an expert of your own self and your own experience. And that’s a good place to start to learn.And then when you start from that place behind the counter, you’re going to pick and choose things that you do actually know about, whether it’s the recipe in the cookbook, in the book section, or a knife that you own at home. And you’re going to be able to build off of that. And then you’re going to be excited to learn rather than intimidated and afraid of saying the wrong thing.Given how much you two are doing as knife makers, small business owners, knife sharpeners, teaching everyone. Don’t forget parents. And parents. You stepped on it. And the most important thing being parents. Yeah. That explains the teenagers that we live with better. Your time is extremely limited and it would be so easy for you just to stay in the lane that you know works, that brings in money, that keeps the business afloat, that keeps you attentive to your teenage children.But your fifth and final rule preaches the benefits of trying something out of your comfort zone. What is your rule number five? Experiment and do things that you are not good at. The business has always been in a certain kind of expansion mode. It never reached a certain place where we’re like, hey, this is great. Let’s just kind of hit cruise control and we’ll do this like this. Mostly it’s by necessity because having a small business... In San Francisco, probably in a lot of places in the country, the broad majority of small business owners probably share our experience, which is that you’re riding a shark that needs to keep swimming to be able to get oxygen and it needs to keep being fed. It’s something that you can’t just sit still with.We definitely hit a place a while back where we realized if we just coast from here, then we will topple under the weight of itself. We did get to this place where we also felt like we were mid-career and like had a whole lot to say. We had so much to say about what we had learned, our experiences, and then we had so much more that we wanted to do.It also has grown out of this genuine sense of enthusiasm, not just from us, but our crew too. So like people are finding things that we want to carry and then we’re researching it and then we’re doing all the testing and the tasting and all of that stuff. We’re prototyping different things. I think that all our prototypes come out pretty good, but as to whether they’re economical to make, that’s the other part that we have to fit into it. Now we’re just finding ourselves fundraising to stand up a manufacturing operation that actually can do a large amount of stuff. And we could actually have a volume of things.We’re not looking to do very one of a kind bespoke kind of knife making. We’re looking at doing the kind of production knife making that integrates skilled handwork and industrial process. And that’s been the backbone of the major knife making centers of the world. That’s what we’re kind of trying to bring back here in San Francisco. And we’re wanting to do that in conversation with all of the folks that we’ve been building relationships with in Germany and France and Japan and here in the States. Yeah, it’s exciting, but it is doing something new. It is really exciting and it’s so incredible that you continue to push yourself 20 years after you’ve sharpened your first knife.If people want to come to the store or to see what you’re working on, or I will presume get on a waiting list to get their own knives, where can they go? BernalCutlery.com. We have a couple shops in San Francisco. We have one at the Ferry Building and we have one in the Mission District. We’re one of the few owner operators here on the Valencia Corridor. No waiting list necessary if you just want to come in and say hi. Just come say hi. Hopefully I can come and say hi in person very soon. We would love that. Josh and Kelly, thank you again for the time. So great to see you. It’s great talking with you. And it was a fabulous exercise to have to make five rules.At first, I wasn’t quite sure. I was like, we’re either going to come up with three or we’re going to come up with 20. I like this exercise a lot. Thank you so much for a great conversation. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with San Diego chef Tara Monsod to talk about one of our shared favorite topics: how to travel the world with food as the focus. Fresh off a trip to Japan and the Philippines, Tara shares her Five Rules for How to Travel & Eat Like a Chef on Vacation, covering everything from researching spots that locals love, to trusting a side-street ramen line, to balancing Michelin meals with late-night street carts. Whether you’re a chef planning your first real vacation or someone just trying to make their next trip tastier, this chat is a good guide for how to turn every bite into a deeper connection with the place you’re in.Food is always the anchor for how I travel. It’s not just where I eat, it’s how I learn about the people, the rhythm of the city, the culture. I love the chase: the deep dives into local blogs, DM threads with chefs and friends, the obsessive spreadsheet with an itinerary built around breakfast, lunch, snacks, and dinner. When you take the time to really dig in, you’re rewarded with more than just good meals. You get stories, context, and flavors that stick with you long after the trip ends. Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptionHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with one of my favorite people in the culinary scene, Tara Monsod, who’s the executive chef at Animae and Le Coq, both in San Diego. She recently returned from her adventures in the Philippines and Japan, and she shares her five rules for how to travel and eat like a chef on vacation. She talks about the importance of doing one’s research, how to strike up a conversation with someone who works at a restaurant that you love, and how keeping your eyes open while walking the streets of a new city might just land you the best meal on your trip. It is a great guide for anybody who wants to make food the focal point of their next adventure in the world. So let’s get into the rules.Tara, so great to see you again. Always a pleasure to sit down and chat. How’s everything been? Everything is great. Sandy was perfect weather right now. Yeah, everything’s good. Just busy in the labs. Just finished one with Cato not that long ago. Yes. Yes, it was honestly a great day. What I like about your approach to living is that you work really hard and then you also travel. And when you travel, food is the main driver of how you approach your adventures. Why does a city’s culinary landscape dictate your decisions?Who doesn’t travel for food? I mean, I don’t know, but sure. Yes, there are people out there. I’m just kidding. It’s just a good reflection of the people in the city. If there’s a lot of diversity in food and a lot of options for food, it’s the best way to experience the culture. Other people who may be transplant in those cultures. So when you go to other cities, it’s nice to just engulf yourself in all of those flavors as a chef and just kind of see what people are doing in the culinary world.You recently got back from the Philippines and Japan, which are two of the biggest culinary worlds out there. What were some of the highlights? How did you even begin to get into what you wanted to do and where you wanted to eat in the city? Oh, my gosh. I mean, it’s really overwhelming when you’re going into a city, especially so compact like Manila and Japan. One of the first things I really do is see what people are talking about. Michelin guides are a good way to start what local bloggers are saying and then kind of go through a black hole of seeing where people are eating and what people are talking about and what’s exciting.In Japan, the standards of what is good. Imagine the best restaurants, some of the best Japanese restaurants here. And then that is the starting level of every other Japanese restaurant in Japan. I was geeking out, man. There’s food everywhere. And not only that, it’s just executed the best way they can with a lot of respect. People are generally sitting and enjoying their meal. And it’s just such a great experience. It could be it’s from a 7-Eleven or a bento box place in the subway to a Michelin dinner or a sushi omakase. No matter what I had, it was delicious. Maybe I’m like a little... high off of just being in Japan, but I generally enjoyed just the attention to detail. For me as a chef, it’s just so appreciated.I remember the first time I went to Tokyo, it was with my wife for a honeymoon and I got so overwhelmed with just how many options there were. My buddy who spent a long time there said, you have to treat it like you’re going back just so you can enjoy where you eat and where you go. How do you not get overwhelmed, especially when you’re mixing personal eating, but also professional research?It’s very easy to get overwhelmed because you only have so much room in your stomach. You just have to know that whatever meal you’re going to pick, it’s going to be good. And it’s worth it. Sometimes when I think I have it figured out of where I’m going to eat, I’ll pass by a place, see a long line. And I’ll be like, what is it? There’s a bunch of locals standing in line. I’m going to stand in line. Whatever it is, please give it to me. Two ramen meals, actually, I had were the best ramen that I had in the city. That rule always works for me.A lot of people can follow someone like you on Instagram and think that, oh, well, you’re a chef. There’s just an automatic list that gets handed to you when you go to a new country. I know from experience, it’s a lot of work, which is why I’m so excited that you’re here today to share your five rules for how to travel and eat like a chef on vacation. And your first rule is all about research. Yes. What’s your rule number one?Look at what the locals are saying, whether it’s local papers, local magazines, credible foodie. You can kind of filter out some people who do it for the aesthetics and some people do it for the food. If you’re somebody who dines out a lot like I do, you can tell from pictures and their lists, whether it relates to you as what you’re looking for is dining. The power of social media is great. You can literally go through different lists and then go through a black hole that’ll link you from one place to the other. If somebody is eating somewhere and is public and you see their trend of where they eat, then you can go through their list and it’s from people who actually ate there. Then you can actually see what they ordered, maybe have an idea of which direction that you want to go, whether it’s all hype or whether it’s really legit food.I was just having that conversation the other day trying to explain to people the difference between food influencers and people who I trust who have good taste in food. What you find those people, that’s who you follow and that’s who you get your recommendations from. Right. But sometimes it’s just about literally being on the street and seeing where the locals are hanging out, which ties directly into your rule number two. If you see a room full of locals in there and not a bunch of transplants or tourists, that means it’s a great place. Yes. That means if the locals are eating, it’s usually a good sign that that place is pretty legitimate.For me, in multiple cities like Mexico City, Philippines, Manila, a lot of those places ended up giving me some of the best meals I’ve had. We had a long day. We went to Tokyo Disney because I wanted to experience Disney again for the first time. Of course. Wow. Yeah. Sure enough, duck ramen, solid freaking bowl, man. What they do is it was a ramen that’s only made from duck, green onions, and water. They simmer it for hours. I kid you not, one of the cleanest bowls of ramen I’ve ever had. Two pieces of duck, really solid noodles, clear broth. And then they had extra duck on the side. It was just very, very satisfying. That and a beer. I’m chilling.Sometimes those side streets offer the most surprising meal. What I’ve also found in my travels is that while the big cities are great and those always have well-researched lists and you can always get recommendations there, traveling to the outskirts can get you some of the best food on the road, which aligns with your rule number three. Well, number three is exploring smaller neighborhoods off the beaten path. A lot of people might stick to the major cities or where the tourists at, which is fine. There’s some things that are popular as they should be because they’re awesome. But the locals, usually they aren’t in the middle of the city. Maybe they might be outside of the city. It’s like New York to Brooklyn. Every city has that. Tokyo is great and concentrated, but there’s a lot of great things in Osaka. There’s a lot of great things in Kyoto. Same thing with Manila. Manila is so concentrated that it’s hard to get anywhere. But when you start to go on the outskirts of the Philippines where it’s a little more rural, a little more quiet, you experience the city and the food in a different way.Once you get a chance to experience good food in a city, you start to trust the people who are eating there and the people who work there. Your rule number four encourages people looking for their next good meal to do this. If you’re at a restaurant that you’re really excited about and you’re just sitting there at the end of meals and you’re like, wow, that was a solid meal. I start to talk to staff. Yeah. I talk to servers, the chef. I love sitting at a counter bar, just chopping it up with the people who are cooking in front of me and be like, where do you eat? Where do you go after work? Where’s the industry spot? Where do you go have a beer? What’s a good deal? Especially when it comes to late night, they are really great at giving you great recommendations because I can tell you that I’m definitely one of those people will ask me. I’m like yeah i got a list for you you’re like tell me what you’re looking for boom boom boom and sure enough if you’re guests in the city and you have five spots that somebody’s gone through because they live here but for you you can handle all five in one vacation.People could be intimidated to talk to waiters or servers or chefs or busboys or hosts but when someone sees that you’ve made the effort to eat in their restaurant and enjoy the meal they’re very willing to give you tips about where they love to eat. We’re in the business of hospitality and it’s our job to talk about food. If anything, we might think that we don’t want to bore you with our list. If you express some interest and you’re generally asking where the industry people go, we think that either you love food or you’re in the industry. It’s a good signal to be like, yeah, what do you want to know? I got you. Just don’t be afraid to ask. What’s the worst thing? They say a couple of things, but it’s better than zero than what you had before.Absolutely. That openness to trust people and to do the research, to dig into the lists, should paint a broad spectrum of what the city has to offer. And your fifth and final rule talks about how someone who’s trying to enjoy the city and understand it from a culinary point of view should be open to doing this. Highs and lows. Experience a Michelin dinner if you really enjoy fine dining. I suggest getting at least one of those in and then go to a local food cart that is doing the best of one thing and they’ve been doing it forever and just getting a bite of that.Sometimes I’ll go to places where I’ll get an appetizer and then I’ll go to have a second dinner and get three things there. And then have a third dinner or a late night thing and get a snack on the street. Sometimes it’s fun not to commit to a whole restaurant. Yes. Now that is very extreme chef behavior. It’s crazy, yes. That’s at the top of the mountain.I tell my cooks all the time, it doesn’t have to cost a lot to have a great meal. It does not. Get a $2 taco on the corner or go to a fine dining experience like I did in Mexico City. I ate at Quintanil for lunch, had a three-hour experience. And by six o’clock, I was at Maizajo getting a taco. Yes. It’s extreme, but if you’re a person that loves traveling for food, I don’t think it’s a bad itinerary at all.Okay. No, and I’ve been to a handful of tasting menus where I needed a hot dog or a taco on the street immediately because I was still hungry when I walked out. It’s not as rare as one would think.Tara, thank you so much for sharing your five rules for how to eat and travel like a chef on a vacation. If people want to follow along with your adventures or come check out the restaurants, where can they go?You can visit anime on Instagram and locoque on Instagram. My username is haramonsad on Instagram as well. Come check us out. Come to San Diego. One’s in La Jolla. One’s in downtown. And I’d love to see you. And maybe I could be that person for you to talk about San Diego food. I’m sure you have the best stops. I will absolutely pick you up on that. Congrats on everything. And I hope to share a fine dining meal and a street food bite with you very soon. Looking forward to it. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

If you’ve ever stared at the butcher counter like it was a final exam you didn’t study for, this one’s for you. In this episode, I sit down with Mark and Brian Lobel, legendary New York butchers, father and son, and sixth-generation meat experts. They’ve turned their family craft into a masterclass on meat and share their Five Rules for how to Never Be Afraid of Cooking Meat Again. From doling out advice at their iconic Lobel’s butcher shop on Madison Avenue to teaching people how to pick the right cut, the Lobels don’t just sell meat, they teach you how to respect it. Learning how to pick and prepare meat is one of those quiet turning points in your cooking life. It’s where confidence meets instinct. You start to understand what you’re buying, how it feels, how it cooks, and what happens when you give it time and care. Even after years in the kitchen, there’s always something new to learn, some little tip or trick that changes everything. That’s what I love about talking with Mark and Brian Lobel. When you get advice from a family that’s been butchering for six generations, it’s not just about meat, it’s about tradition, patience, and craft. Listening to them feels like being invited behind the counter, shown the ropes, and reminded that great cooking starts with curiosity and respect for what’s in front of you.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I am joined by Mark and Brian Lobel, father and son, legendary butchers in New York City whose family has been serving and selling meat to the public for over six generations.They share their five rules for how to never be afraid of cooking meat again. They talk about how setting yourself up for success starts with selecting the right cut of meat, that when you’re using high quality beef, simplicity is key, and how to ensure the perfect cook every time by taking out the guesswork.It is a real masterclass from a family who’s made it their life mission and business to know everything there is about meat. So let’s get into the rules.Mark and Brian, it’s so nice to meet you. Been a longtime fan of your butcher shop. Thanks for sitting down with me, especially right after Labor Day. I’m glad you had time to catch your breath.Thanks. It’s a pleasure to meet you and a pleasure to be with you.When I think about family businesses, being a butcher or owning a butcher shop always comes to top of mind. Why is butchering the type of profession that gets passed down from generation to generation?That’s exactly true. It does get passed down. And that’s because when your father is a butcher at the age of eight or nine or 10, you grow up in the butcher shop and you grow up taking care of customers and get a real education on how to cut meat and how to prepare meat. The whole retail mentality behind being in the butcher shop and selling. You generally become a butcher because your father was a butcher. Your uncle was a butcher. Somebody in your family was a butcher. There’s a lineage there.There’s also a lot of passion behind it. It was really all I knew growing up. Even from a young age, it was like, okay, my dad went to work, and when my dad went to work, he was also there with my uncle. And then he was there with my grandpa. He was there with my cousin. So there was that camaraderie and family bond that was always instilled in us at a young age. We’re such a close family. We’re always all together. So business is always being discussed. And when you’re young, it’s so cool to think about, wow, one day I’m going to be a part of this and then I’ll be a part of that conversation. That also adds an element to it as well.Having a great butcher is one of those things in life that people often brag about. Why is it such a special relationship to have? What makes it so important to living the good life?You really develop a bond with your customers because food is so important. We’re there for recipe questions. We’re there for, “I want to create this dish—so what kind of meat should we use?” I think it’s the wealth of information that butchers have. We’re in a unique situation being where we’ve been for so many years as well. A lot of our customers have become really like family. They’re there because their parents shopped there, and they’re there because their grandparents shopped there. It’s such a personalized relationship between customers and us, and even our other butchers, that just makes it so unique and so special.I’m not sure there’s another business out there where you have the relationships with the customers the way we do. Those relationships are so important. They just feel like extended family.And I know that your family started raising beef in Austria in the 1840s and then made its way to America in the 1910s. And you’ve been selling ever since. Is there anything you practice or share with your customers that you’ve been doing since day one?It’s sharing the information that we have and the knowledge base that we have to be able to educate our customers on how to cook. I mean, if you call the Madison Avenue store, you get that customer service. People are really looking for customer service.Just to piggyback off on what my dad was saying, to explain the difference in quality—what you’re getting here versus what you’re getting somewhere else—how important the quality of the beef is to your eating experience is something that we provide to them as well.Being able to take generations of knowledge and distill it to share it with your customers is such a beautiful thing. And it’s why I’m so excited to have you both on to share your five rules for how to never be afraid of cooking meat again.Now, it’s very easy to see the end result of a dish—a beautiful roast comes out, steak, a whole chicken—and be intimidated about how someone got that perfectly cooked piece of meat on the plate. But as you both know, the entire process starts with selecting the right cut. What is your rule number one?The first rule would be pick out the best possible piece of meat that you can at the grocery store or the butcher shop. There’s a method to this madness. There are three main grades of beef: prime, select, and choice. Wherever possible, you want to be able to get a USDA prime piece of meat. So important. Not every place will be able to sell prime. Lobel’s, we have only prime. Then you go for choice. And then if you can’t find choice, you go for select.When you go over to the counter, when you go over to the case, the average person’s in the supermarket and they’re not sure what to look for. First, you want to look at the marbling—and those are the fine streaks of fat that run throughout the meat. You also want to look at the fat on the meat. So if you’re looking at the outside fat on the steak, you want it to be milky white. You don’t want the fat to be grayish in color. Also, the color of the meat should be red. Sometimes you’ll see a grayish tone and that could indicate that the meat is a little older than you want it to be. It won’t be bad for you, but it’s not going to be as fresh.If you’re going to be looking for lamb or veal, and you look for a little red on the back of the bone, that determines youth in the animal. Younger animals will eat a little bit better. If you’re looking for some lamb chops, looking for some veal chops, if you look hard enough, you can find some marbling. Go for that. Go for the marbling. It’ll help. It’ll make a better eating experience.Sometimes it can be a very intimidating experience. You see people, they’re pacing back and forth. They’re on their phone. They don’t know what to do. Don’t be afraid to ask the butcher at the butcher shop. Don’t be afraid to ask somebody at the supermarket for help. Don’t be afraid to ask somebody next to you who’s also buying something for help.Good point. I’ve seen my dad helping people in public before when he’s just looking.I’ve been guilty of that also. Never be afraid to ask your butcher: “This is what I like. This is what my wife and I would like to have for dinner tonight. Can you pick out a great steak for us?” People really need to just be more comfortable asking for help. That’s what we’re here for.Most people can agree on selecting the best quality of meat to set yourself up for success. But once you get that cut home, then it comes down to personal preference when you’re preparing to cook. What’s your rule number two?When you have such a high-end steak that’s going to provide so much flavor naturally, less is more. Keep it simple. Easy. Olive oil. Black pepper. Kosher salt. Over-seasoning and getting too excited is very, very easy. And we’re all guilty of it—including me, including my dad. We’ve all gotten lost in the moment.Lost in the sauce.When I get my meat home, I like to pat it dry before I season it or marinate it. I won’t wrap it. I’ll actually leave it open in the refrigerator. That whole process of leaving it open and that drying process, putting it in the refrigerator after you season it, will help you get a better crust after you cook it.Marinating also—a lot of fun. Whether it’s chicken, whether you use a barbecue sauce, whether you use a salad dressing. We have a blast marinating our beef kebab, our chicken kebabs. My dad is a wizard behind the grill, so he’s always coming up with new ways.Nobody goes near the grill in my house except…That’s a lot of fun.No one could ever ask me where I learned to grill because if I’m not getting a chance to do it…Oh, please.When I first started cooking meat, there was this method about touching different parts of your hand to understand the doneness of what you were cooking. But what I found is that it was a lot of guesswork and I ruined a lot of good cuts of meat. Your third rule talks about using this instrument to ensure cooking perfection every time.You should never guess on doneness of meat because there’s nothing worse than having a great piece of meat and you overcook it. Using an instant read thermometer is the best tool. If you think you should cook something for 50 minutes, you’re going by a recipe—an hour, an hour and 10 minutes—15, 20 minutes before, you can probe it and put the instant read thermometer in to see where you are.Everybody’s oven is different. Sometimes people will put something in the oven and they’ll open the oven to look and they can lose five or 10 minutes and not even realize because they’re glaring at the piece of meat. It’s not an exact science.But remember, when you take the piece of meat out, if you’re looking for rare at 120 degrees, just realize that when you take something out of the oven, it’s going to go up five points also. So you have to build that in.I can’t stress the importance of not being afraid to check it. Still to this day, if I’m cooking something new, I’ll call my dad and I’ll say, “Dad, question for you—how long am I putting this in for?”Even when he knows the answer, he still calls me.I have to double check because if I overcook the meat—That’s trouble.Or then undercook it and then put it back in and overcook it—That’s the worst. That’s one of the worst cooking experiences anybody could ever have, undercooking and then overcooking at the same time.There’s always that moment when you pull a perfectly cooked piece of meat out of the oven or off the stove and you want to rip in right away. But your rule number four talks about the importance of waiting to make sure that your fantastic cook doesn’t go to waste.Rule number four is to let the meat rest. After you take it out of the oven, you put it on top of the stove top or on the counter. Take it out of the roasting pan and put it onto a butcher block where you’re going to slice it because there’s still a lot of heat coming up from the bottom. You’re letting the meat rest.If you slice it right away, you’re going to notice a lot of the juice will run out. And you don’t want that. If you wait—not too long—five minutes on a steak, 10 to 15 on a roast, like if you’re doing a prime rib or a larger roast, you’ll notice that instead of the juices running out onto the carving board, they’ll stay and redistribute in the roast.Really important. A lot of people don’t follow that rule, but it’s a good one to have.You’ve selected the right cut. You’ve prepped to your preference. You’ve cooked perfectly and you’ve given the meat time to rest. And your fifth and final rule ensures that when it comes time to carve, you are slicing with perfection.When it comes down to slicing and carving the meat properly, it’s really important.The most important.You want to have a really sharp knife. That’s really important. Have it on a cutting board. Do not have it on a plate. Some people just kind of wing it.You’d be surprised.I get it—maybe they don’t want to wash the cutting board.It’s worth it. And you have to slice it super thin. The difference between thin and thick could change your whole eating experience.If you have a good prime piece of meat—which everyone is not going to be able to find—if you cut a little thicker, you’ll be fine. If you’re going to find something choice or select, you want to really try to cut it as thin as you can.The important thing is when you’re slicing, you want to cut it against the grain. You’ll see the lines in the piece of meat running in one direction. You want to cut it against the grain. And the meat—whatever you’re carving—will be so much more delicious, so much better.Sometimes in the butcher shop, people are so intimidated, they’ll say, “Can you score—make the lines in the meat—so I can follow the guideline after it’s cooked?”I never heard that.Especially brisket. If you cut brisket the wrong way, it becomes stringy. You cut pastrami the wrong way—it becomes stringy. You cut a roast or any steak, it makes a huge difference.Don’t be afraid to ask that. As a butcher, that is not something that you’re going to see a butcher huff and puff or roll their eyes at. That is something we are more than happy to do.And I’m sure every butcher is more than happy to do because at the end of the day, you’re doing your job because you want to make their eating experience as great as possible. And I’ve found that every time that I’ve asked, they’ve never been condescending. If anything, they’ve been happy to share their knowledge.Definitely.Make sure that I don’t waste a piece of meat and that I honor what was killed for consumption.They want to help, even if they can’t be at home with you.That’s exactly right.Thank you, guys. Congratulations. Six generations.Thank you, Darin.Thank you so much.It’s truly incredible. If people want to visit the store or order online because the holiday seasons are here and I am already thinking about where I’m going to get my brisket...Oh yeah.Where can they go? How can they shop with you?Prime rib, brisket—they can go to our Madison Avenue store at 1096 Madison Avenue. We’ve been there since 1954. Or they can visit our website at lobels.com or our new store at Rockefeller Center, which is Lobel’s Original, where we’re doing great steak sandwiches and just great protein like we do at Yankee Stadium.I can’t wait to be back in New York and just swing into the store for a sandwich and for a perfect slice of meat.We look forward to having you there.Thank you so much. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I’m joined by photographer, content creator, and newly minted cookbook author, Lindsey Baruch. Her debut book Something Delicious is a love letter to everyday cooking, filled with flavor-forward recipes and the kind of real-life strategies that make dinner actually doable. We dive into her Five Rules for Grocery Shopping that Make Dinners Easy: From Post-it notes on the fridge to forgiving your fishmonger, her approach is equal parts practical, personal, and built on a deep love of food, farmers’ markets, & feeding yourself well.I still remember my mom walking me through the grocery store the day before I left for college, showing me how to pick a ripe melon and avoid the sad lettuce in the back of the case. It wasn’t formal, but it stuck with me, and it’s probably why I still love the ritual of shopping for food. These days, it’s the LA farmers’ market that lights me up. There’s nothing better than being surrounded by peak-season produce and letting the ingredients tell you what to cook. Whether it’s radicchio or fresh figs or some unique squash I’ve never seen before, that moment of inspiration, that little spark at the stand is where the meal starts.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with content creator and photographer, Lindsey Baruch, whose new book Something Delicious: 100 Recipes for Everyday Cooking is out now. She shares her five rules for grocery shopping that makes dinner easy. We chat about how to organize your fridge through personal notes to yourself, how having a plan is important, but how being open to pivoting can make a meal magic, and that shopping for yourself doesn’t start in the grocery store—it actually starts at home. It is a great way to set yourself up for success, whether it’s for dinner or any meal that you cook at home. So let’s get into the rules.Lindsey, it’s so nice to meet you. Congratulations on your beautiful first cookbook, Something Delicious. It is an incredible tribute to learning how to cook. Thank you. From your family, starting with your grandmother, what is a fundamental that she shared with you that still guides you today?A fundamental that she taught me is to just stay present and to have a good time. She taught me how to enjoy our time together in the kitchen, cooking together. We would always bake cakes together when I was sick from school. She lived next door to me, by the way—amazing—so I would just hop right next door. We would make tea and pound cakes. She had those indented molds, you know what I’m talking about? We would cook those together. So I feel like that’s something that she really just taught me—to be present and enjoy cooking by myself and enjoy cooking with other people.It’s such an incredible way to learn how to cook and have it be such a natural part of your life from childhood. As you get older and cooking goes from a fun activity with Grandma to something that you have to do every day, it can get a little stressful. Oh yes. You kick your cookbook off with that question, “What are we going to eat?”—which has got to be one of the most vexing questions of anyone who’s got to feed themselves or their family. I know.What is your advice for flipping that to something that you look forward to? Or are there just days when it’s going to be a struggle? I have a list of recipes where it’s: I don’t know what I want to eat, but here’s my list of things that I can whip up. I’m a list girl. So I just have a list in my notes of “I’m hungry, what can I make with what I have in my kitchen?” Oh, I can make tuna most of the time. I can make pasta most of the time. I went to the market and I got yogurt and granola or something like that. So I always have those essentials to make sure that I’m set up and I’m always able to eat something delicious. No pun intended—but it is pun intended. I love it. Puns allowed.I never thought about having a list. I have one meal that I always go to when I’m at the grocery store. Oh yeah? What is it? Pork chop, potatoes, and whatever vegetable is in season. Ooh, that sounds amazing. Yeah. But the idea of having a list of five dishes that I could just look at and be like, “I’m going to cook this,” is such a great tip. Thank you.Born and raised in LA, you talk about being inspired by so many different ingredients and cuisines. How do you pull all those different inspirations together to inspire you to cook at home? I love the farmers markets. I feel like that keeps things really creative and fresh and not stale. That’s why I do like to go to the farmers market, because it does allow me the opportunity to explore what’s available. And that keeps ideas flowing and you don’t have to repeat the same patterns and the same recipes. So I feel like that always keeps things fun and exciting when I’m cooking—and recipe developing too.That teaching of what ingredients to shop for and how to shop for them—Grandmother did that for you. My mom taught me how to go grocery shopping the day before I left for college. But for those who don’t have someone who’s taught them how to shop for food, I’m excited for you to share your five rules for grocery shopping that make dinner easy. All of us have gone to the supermarket hungry. All of us have gone without writing anything down. It never turns out well. No, never. Every time I think I can ad-lib or I’ll remember everything, I come home and I’ve forgotten the mayo, the broccoli, something like that.What is your rule number one that shows that shopping actually starts at home? The first rule is to have a plan. You can’t aimlessly go to the store. Maybe I will for fun, but if I want to have a plan for dinner and I want to actually cook, that is where I need a plan. So what I’ll do is on a Saturday or a Sunday or even Friday, I’ll kind of think: What am I vibing with this week? What’s in season? What am I feeling? Am I feeling like a salmon? Am I feeling like a chicken? So I’ll start with the protein and then I’ll be like, “Okay, I want a salad with that or roasted potatoes.” Then what I’ll do is I’ll make a categorized list—fruit, vegetables—and then also location too. I’ll go to the butcher for my meat and then I’ll go to the farmers market for the produce. That is definitely my favorite, very first step to really making sure that I have my ideas down. I’m not going aimlessly to the market. And I have my grocery list, so when I’m there, I can just check it off right away.There is something so soothing about checking off that list and knowing what’s growing at that time. Building that list around what’s fresh and delicious—which ties directly into your rule number two.Rule number two: shop seasonally. And this doesn’t mean you need to go to the farmers market. You know, at most markets, they’ll have persimmons popping up really soon that aren’t there in the summertime. I find when I’m getting good in-season produce, I’m able to do less to it too. Just salt and pepper—I don’t need to zhuzh it up as much. It’s just tasty on its own versus like, a winter tomato needs more love.Thank you. Sometimes what stops me from buying so much fresh food or something seasonal is that I’ll open up my fridge and I forgot about some tasty tomato or an apple or a bunch of herbs that have gone to waste. Your third rule talks about how you can avoid having food go bad.After I’ll have my plan and I’ve gone grocery shopping, I’ll come home, clean out the fridge—sometimes even do that before—but I’ll organize it. And it doesn’t need to be, “Oh, I see everything,” because in this next rule, I’ll write down what I bought and what I plan to make with it. But I kind of do like to have a more visual cue for it. I’ll put a magnet on my fridge. Oh, you can do a Post-it note inside your fridge or on the table. I’ll write down everything that’s in the fridge—mint, parsley, cucumber, chicory. I’ll write down the ingredients and then I’ll write down what I plan to make with it. I love this. I bought chicken from the butcher and I bought chicory from the farmers market. I’m going to make a one-pot chicken chicory dinner. Be right over. I write that down so I’m not going in my fridge on Monday night and I have chicory and I have chicken, but I forgot I had the chicory and I didn’t have my plan. Now, I’m not only having my plan from step one, I now have it written down and I’m executing on the plan. And I find that allows me to have the execution to actually cook dinner without having to think of what I want to make for dinner—it’s already been planned. But also it saves waste where I would forget that I bought that ingredient.On the other side of the fresh ingredients and things that can go bad immediately is the pantry. And I can’t tell what is worse—having a full pantry and forgetting a fresh ingredient or having all the fresh ingredients and missing something from the pantry. True.What’s your rule number four? Rule number four would be: having the canned goods ready. Having my olive oil. I use a lot of vinegars. I’ll have all my vinegars stocked and ready to go. Also, vinegar is so versatile. If I want to change it up and change the vinegar, change the flavor—I have all of those there. I have different types of olive oil, different types of seasonings and spices. So I’m pretty much not shopping. I’m not going to the grocery store. I’m making tacos tonight and I spent $100 on a recipe for one night of tacos. I kind of am able to streamline the whole week’s worth of dinner by having those fundamentals in my pantry.We’ve talked a lot about planning. We’ve talked about the rules of how to shop to make dinner easy. This could stress people out and it could feel like if you don’t go in with a plan, you won’t have any sort of success—you need the list, you need the organization. But that doesn’t mean you can’t be creative and you can’t call an audible when you’re at the market or in the grocery store, which is a direct inspiration for your rule number five.Rule number five: allow yourself to pivot. Yes. If I am at the farmers market and I was making tomatoes and chicken, but I saw really gorgeous leeks, I would just change it to leeks. Or let’s say I was planning to make grilled shrimp, but the fishmonger only has halibut—I will make those adjustments. If you don’t get your shrimp where you are, don’t go to the ends of the earth. Just let it go. If you have a purveyor you love and trust, and they don’t have what you want, there’s probably a good reason. True. So don’t go and try and substitute it unless you have some sort of backup. True. That’s a great tip. We’ll call it a bonus rule.I know it sounds so far like I have this strict regimen and I can’t go off track—I know—but I have the plan and I’m open to be flexible and change it up. And I think that’s also something that I share in the book too. Use your fundamentals, use your intuition, and you can mix and match and change different things. And it’s okay.Lindsey, congratulations on everything. Thank you so much. Something Delicious is out now, available where all books are sold. And please remember to support your local independent bookstore. If people want to follow you for recipes or content coming out of the book or just see what you’re working on, where can they go?You can go on Instagram at @lindsayeats and also on my website at lindsayeatsla.com. I can’t wait for people to hit the grocery stores and to cook something delicious for themselves every day. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

ChatGPT said:Yia Vang joins Five Rules for the Good Life this week to share lessons from the line and reflections from his incredible journey in food. Chef, storyteller, and champion of Hmong cuisine, Yia opens up about what it means to cook with purpose, lead a team, and feed a community. We talk family meal, kitchen language, and how to stay curious no matter where you are in your culinary path. And for the first time, he’s bringing that passion to The Chef Assembly in Los Angeles on October 20th. Catch him cooking live and sharing stories from the heart—tickets available here and more info at thechefassembly.com.I’ve loved watching Yia’s story unfold over the last few years—from the early pop-ups to the full realization of Vinai. He’s one of those chefs who truly cooks from the heart, channeling personal history, cultural legacy, and deep care into every dish. His food doesn’t just taste good; it means something. You can feel the weight of tradition and the joy of discovery in every bite. He’s doing the work of telling the Hmong American story plate by plate, and it’s been amazing to see how that voice has grown louder, prouder, and more confident over time.The Chef Assembly makes its annual LA stop on October 20th, with an impactful lineup of chefs and other culinary luminaries. The event will be held at ChowNow HQ and provide an inclusive space for connection between LA-based chefs, journalists, and industry colleagues from across the country and abroad. Supported by Resy, an American Express company, The Chef Assembly LA will consist of six panels, multiple delicious meal breaks, and a reception!Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with my buddy, Yia Vang, who’s the chef and owner of Vinay Restaurant and the host of some incredible cooking shows like Relish on PBS. He’ll also be in Los Angeles on October 20th for the Chef Assembly, where he’ll be cooking up some food and sharing his love and thoughts on Hmong cuisine. Today, he shares his five rules for being a good line cook. He talks about the importance of learning the shared language of the kitchen, how sharing a meal is more than just about eating together, and the best way to grow is to keep yourself curious. So let’s get into the rules.Yia, so great to see you and sit down with you. Congratulations, two stars in the New York Times. What an achievement. I loved seeing your face and your name in the article. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. I felt good about what the write-up was. I’m glad that I didn’t know when they came in. So that was good. Yeah, it’s a nice thing to wake up and open up the paper and see yourself end of this morning. You and I first shot together almost about seven or eight years ago now. You’ve been on your journey as a chef for quite a long time. Do you remember how it first felt when you stepped on the line at a restaurant?I remember my first line cook job, it was Italian Americano place. It was the kitchen manager literally was like, hey, do you know how to cook steaks? And I’m like, yeah, I think so. And he literally took me to the grill and was like, okay, you’re going to be making steaks all night. You know, the little thing, the whole like on your palm, rare, medium, rare, medium well, you know. Sure, yeah, and when you press your palm and you put your fingers together like he showed me real quick this is how you figure it out and then it’s like oh tickets are coming in get going and that was pretty much it and i just kind of turned it into a game in my head where i’m like okay here are the hot spots get the ticket time down and that’s kind of how i started with literally thrown into the deep end there’s no better place to learn how to swim than the deep end. Yeah or drown or drown or drown or drown.Getting started as a line cook is such a good entry point. How much of it was learning on the line? How much did you know? What do you think is a base level that people should know before they step into that role? Some of my first cooking jobs were just prep, peeling potatoes and, you know, washing me as a dish kid, you know? I worked at this racetrack where literally I put the burgers at the end of the conveyor belt and I picked it up on the other end, you know, when it goes through the broiler. My first experience on the line was tough because nobody was really communicating with each other. You would just expect to know stuff. But even now I get to run a line and in our restaurant, we’re constantly communicating each other. You know, I always tell the guys over communicate, over communicate. Even if you’re saying, hey, two minutes on the fried rice, it’s like awesome. Over communicate so that we’re all on the same page to get everything out. I learned that by being on some bad lines. Right, right, right, right, right. I can tell people there’s always a conductor. There’s always one person who leads the charge. So let’s all follow him or her. I tell people that life is kind of like working on the line. Know how to prep enough for the night, but also enough that if it does go over crazy, you’re not running to the back to prep some more while you work.Now that you’ve learned so much by being both on bad lines and good lines and now your own line, what do you look for when you’re hiring a line cook? The acronym I always have in the back of my mind when I look for people to come work on the line for us, it actually spells out the word FAT, F-A-T, right? So you’re looking for someone who’s F, faithful. They’re going to show up every day. And when they come in, they’re going to be coming in ready. A is accountable. They’re accountable for their actions. So if sometimes they mess up something, just tell us, hey, I messed this up. Awesome. There’s nothing so bad that you can do that we can’t unfix it or help. And in T, it’s trainable. We want them to be able to come with an empty mind to be able to be trained. So it’s just FAT, faithful, accountable, trainable.Having this wealth of knowledge and this experience and your openness to teach people who want to learn how to be a line cook is really exciting because you’ve been there, you’ve grown, and they’re giving it back, which is why I am so excited that you’re going to share your five rules for being a good line cook. Now, anyone who’s ever worked in a restaurant or been in back of the house knows that there are so many specific terms and ways that people talk to each other when they’re cooking, which ties directly into your rule number one.Rule number one is food is a universal language we use to speak to each other every day. I firmly believe in that. I believe that every cook, everybody who comes in and cooks, we already know this language. We’re using it every day. For example, a lot of our cooks are Latinos. I don’t really speak good Spanish. When I say I don’t speak good Spanish, I don’t speak Spanish at all. I know a few phrases. We’re definitely speaking two different languages but tell ralphie this is how we like this cut to be or if i’m talking to patricio and i say hey this is how i want you to do the grill they understand that because we speak food first before any other language.That bond, that coming together, it obviously happens when you’re working and when you’re in the weeds. That type of companionship and being together extends beyond when you’re working. What’s your rule number two? Rule number two is never eat lunch alone. And when I say lunch, what I really mean is never eat family meal alone. I’ve been in the restaurant so long that we just have family meal. Family meal is part of what we do, right? People who aren’t in the restaurant world, they will look at me and go, so every day you guys eat together or you guys do a family meal together? I’m like, yeah. The one thing I love watching is all our cooks, our AM cooks before they leave, our PM cooks before they start, we all gather and then we just sit at the big table together and we just eat together. It’s so cool. It’s just this beautiful picture of all these chefs in their black shirt and they’re just eating together. And when they’re done in unison, they get up, they clear the table, they put on the aprons and they hop on the line and get ready. And it’s so incredible because I feel like that’s the most important part of building that team is eating together.Because you all work together and you eat together, doesn’t always mean you’re always going to see eye to eye. Absolutely. Your third rule encourages people who are on the line to ask questions first before they make a change. What is your rule number three? Rule number three is before you take down a fence, ask yourself why it was put there in the first place. It was a quote I heard a long time ago. I’m like, that’s so true. Because I think that especially young cooks are always thinking, I have an idea. I have an idea. And I remember as a very young person, my freshman year of college, I would have all these ideas. And I remember I had a mentor who said, hey, man, I don’t doubt that one day you’re going to be a leader. I don’t doubt that one day people are going to listen to you. But right now, it’s time to soak things in. And what I loved about what he said to me both in that moment, really in the trajectory of this 18-year-old kid. You have to ask, why are there certain boundaries that were set? And not saying to stay within the boundaries, but learn how to say, hey, if we need to move this fence, well, let’s realize why this fence was put here at this spot. There was a reason for it. Let’s figure out where that reason is before we start going, oh, well, I just kicked this fence down. Who cares? And that’s like cooking. Cooking, you have these base, these structures that we cook within. You have to have it. How you make your sauce, how you sear a steak, how you make rice. There’s these bases that you work on it. To say that, oh, well, I’m going to do it this way now, well, you just totally took out the base of what you’re supposed to do. With young cooks, I always just tell, hey, take a pause, ask questions if you don’t understand, and ask why we’re doing it this way.Asking for help and giving help are two great ways to teach and to learn, but there is an appropriate time for it. Your fourth rule focuses on having this shared mentality and stepping on the line. It’s a quote again from Erwin McManus. He’s a speaker and one of the things he says is courage is not the absence of fear, it’s the absence of self. And I really love that idea that to have courage doesn’t mean, oh, I’m not afraid to do this. No, you can be totally be afraid and still have courage. Courage and fear lives in the same realm and it’s okay. But it’s actually the absence of self. It’s actually you thinking about where it’s like, hey, it’s not about me anymore, right? So what I always say to our team when we have a big night, we look at our team and I say, hey, whatever comes through those doors tonight, whoever comes through those doors tonight, we’re going to get through this evening if we work together. That’s where we draw our courage from. Yes, it’s going to get busy. Yes, it’s going to get chaotic. Yes, people are going to fight. Yes, people are going to argue about certain things. But we have to remember that this is not just us here. This idea that if you want to be a good line cook, you got to know that you’re part of a team.One of my favorite things about being on a good team is the trust that you build between the people that you work with. When there’s that trust and that support, it allows you to be open to learn not just from the top, but from anywhere. Your fifth and final rule focuses on that type of growth. I would just say, always be curious. My dad always said to us, you will be a life learner. You’ll always be a student of life. You’re always constantly learning, no matter how old you are. It’s so cool to think about it that way. I’m always curious about something. Even me, very blessed to get to do TV and do production. I’m always curious about it. I’m always sitting by the PAs and be like, okay, so tell me why you’re doing this way or this way. Sit by the DP or talk to our directors, talk to our showrunners and be like, show me that shot. How does that shot look? That’s the same mentality I bring into just not food, but every aspect of my life. Because if you think about what food really does is food brings people together. But we always talk about how food brings people together. But we never talk about, well, when we’re together, what happens next? I think the food is the catalyst into incredible conversations and relationships. Food is just the beginning. And that’s what I love about having a restaurant. That’s what I love about cooking at a restaurant is that what we get to do is we get to spark everything. Having people sit together at a table and we bring food to them. The rest is up to them. Be curious about each other when you’re sitting with each other eating a meal. It’s such a beautiful sentiment. Yeah.Congratulations on anything. If people want to see what you’re up to, watch some of your show, which has been Emmy nominated or check out Vinay to eat a meal. Where can they go? You can follow us on social media @vinaymn on Instagram and then me personally @yevang70 on Instagram and then we have updates on all our shows and updates on all our restaurants. Well, I can’t wait to see you out here in LA for the Chef Assembly which is happening October 20th. I know you’ll be out here sharing some of your food and looking forward to hear you talk. Congratulations again on the Times and I can’t wait to share meal with you soon. Okay. Thanks a lot man. Appreciate it so much.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Chris Shepherd and Lindsey Brown, the power duo behind Southern Smoke Foundation, the organization they founded to provide emergency relief and mental health services to food and beverage workers nationwide. Chris and Lindsey share their Five Rules to Prepare for the Unexpected, including their new Crisis Toolkit, a great personal and professional resource to prepare yourself, your team, and your loved ones for scenarios like natural disasters, legal and medical emergencies, and more. If you're in or around Houston this Friday (October 4), make sure to get yourself to their biggest and most delicious fundraiser of the year, Southern Smoke Festival---a delicious day on Discovery Green feat. 85+ chefs and beverage pros from across the country.This conversation means a lot to me. The culinary community has always been one of the first to show up in times of crisis—feeding, supporting, organizing. But the recovery process is never quick. The heartbreak doesn’t end when the fire is out or the floodwaters recede. It’s long, hard, and often invisible. That’s why organizations like the Southern Smoke Foundation are so essential. They remind us that true support is sustained support. Lindsey and Chris continue to show up—not just with funding or resources, but with empathy, experience, and structure. Their work is an inspiring blueprint for how to care for a community, not just in the moment, but long after the headlines fade. Photo by Daniel OrtizTickets are on sale now! Mark your calendars for October 4, 2025, as the Southern Smoke Festival presented by Sysco returns to Houston’s Discovery Green. This high-energy event brings together 85+ top chefs, beverage pros, and live music for one unforgettable day. More than a feast, it fuels the Southern Smoke Foundation’s mission to support food and beverage workers in crisis. Come for the flavors, stay for the cause.Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.It is always a pleasure, and today I get to sit down with Lindsey Brown and Chris Shepherd, the Executive Director and the Founding Director and Honorary Chairman, respectively, of the Southern Smoke Foundation. They’re here to share their five rules to help prepare for the unexpected. We talk about this year’s devastating storms in their home state of Texas, how being prepared with checklists and important documents before disaster strikes is the best way to stay safe, and how taking care of your mental health is a key step to survival.So let’s get into the rules.Chris and Lindsey, always so good to see you two. Congratulations on the festival that’s coming up right around the corner. Thank you for making the time to sit down with me for the show.Your home state of Texas was hit with devastating storms and flooding in the Hill Country. I know that the Southern Smoke Foundation was early on the ground to help offer support and guidance during this terrible time. Can you share some of the details of your outreach immediately after the storm?We have a very focused niche when it comes to supporting natural disasters. There was so much devastation in that region, yet so few of those people that were devastated work in the food and beverage industry. Our Chief Mission Officer actually has family in Kerrville, so she spent a couple of days hitting the pavement, letting them know that we’re here and we’re available and we are accepting applications for assistance. What she found was a lot of hesitation and a lot of distrust. There had already been people down there scamming a lot of these folks.What we found is that a lot of people are on a business cash basis in that small town. One of the things that we remind people is you need to keep track of payments, you need to keep track of your pay stubs. Unfortunately, as a 501(c)(3), we’re not able to fund people who get paid in cash. To be really honest, it’s been a challenge for us to help anyone in that region for those reasons. There’s a lot of mistrust for people from the outside. A lot of those businesses are cash businesses. And as close as we are, we’re still so far away.Dealing with the Eaton Canyon fires, it really is a ground game. It just feels like such a tenuous time in these little communities and the culinary industry at large. What have you two seen personally, even closer to home?What we’re seeing on the emergency relief side is that we’re getting more individual applications, not disaster-related, than we ever have before. That can be a mix of a couple of things. It could be the fact that we have more awareness now than we have before. There’s a lot of crisis out there. There are a lot of people who don’t have a safety net. In addition to the quantity of applications, the grants that we’re giving out are larger than ever. The need is real.With these increased needs and your desire to support the community, how does Southern Smoke garner enough support and then distribute it accordingly?You mentioned Southern Smoke Festival, and so these events that we’re doing to fundraise are very important. Festival is still our largest annual fundraiser, and that, plus Decanted—which is our wine auction in the spring—that’s about half of our annual revenue. Everything else comes in through third-party events, fundraisers, corporate partners, individual donors. We’ve staffed up pretty significantly on our programs team. So we have more full-time people working cases. We also have more contract people working cases, and we have it in our business plan to continue to hire next year.It’s also about going out and doing events. Like this weekend, I’ll be in Greenville for Euphoria, their food festival there, raising awareness for Southern Smoke. And then literally going off to California to do another event to raise more awareness. As much money as we’re raising—or trying to raise—we still need to do more, because we also grow in what people know of us.Getting that awareness out and helping get people prepared for what life throws at them is really inspiring. That’s why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules to help prepare for the unexpected, which is something my family went through this year when we lost our house to the Eaton Canyon fire.Oh, I’m so sorry. I didn’t realize that.It’s okay. And I appreciate it. The rules we’re going to talk about—I see them, and I feel good because I knew some of them, but not all of them. When you are faced with even having the opportunity to evacuate or to see something coming that you have no control over, it’s easy to scramble. It’s easy to grab things that are personally important, but maybe won’t help you immediately in getting you even just to the next step of getting you back on your feet or in a safe place.Your rule number one is one of the most important things you can think about when dealing with something unexpected. What’s your first rule?Have your documents online and know how to access them. We see all the time—people don’t know how to find their paystubs. They don’t know where the copy of their lease is. All of those things they’ll need in a crisis, not just to provide to us, but any other disaster or crisis relief organization is going to ask for those things too. Creating a free Google Drive account and uploading the documents so you can access them from your phone, from any computer, anywhere you are, and just knowing that all of it is there in one place. Hopefully you will never need it—hopefully—but if you do, it’s there and you know how to find it.Had I known how on our own we were going to be, as far as having those types of documents or even having a plan, I would have prepared even more. Which speaks a lot to your rule number two: have a plan.Have a plan in the case of a natural disaster. Think about a lot of people that are having a baby—they’ve got their bag packed by the door. It’s another version of that. What do you do if something is headed your way and you have to evacuate? What are you going to have ready? How are you going to get the word out to friends and family or employees if you’re a business owner? Knowing exactly what that plan is, is so important.Well, it’s funny, because as we say this, I need to do this better.Everybody does.Everyone should be prepared.You touched on this earlier about people being guarded because the scammers have come in. And we’ve seen this as well too, in California, dealing with the fires. What no one really warns you about is that once you survive, once you get out, once you start rebuilding, a lot of people are going to come and try to take advantage of you.Which brings us to your rule number three: know what your rights are.One thing we found is that our case managers have really become advocates for our applicants when they’re working those cases. So they’re the ones connecting them with legal aid. They’re the ones connecting them with different organizations, immigration organizations. We’ve sort of built internally—we don’t post it because things change so quickly—but we have an internal Rolodex of different groups that we can recommend our applicants reach out to or connect them to. I mean, so many people that come to us don’t know about disability. There are even people who don’t know about SNAP benefits.We also partner with other like-minded nonprofits—if we partner with Giving Kitchen or we partner with CORE, we can help that applicant further with all of us working together and providing larger sums. Once you know your rights and once you know what you have access to, it really allows you to plan.And your fourth rule helps you stay organized—which, Chris, you know, anyone who’s ever stepped into a kitchen does this all the time just to make a meal or service happen. But people rarely do this for the bigger moments in life. What’s your fourth rule?Have checklists printed. I can definitely speak to Chris—he’ll cook Thanksgiving dinner and he’s got it all written down.Same. Everything that I’m doing over the next few days is checklist-based. And it’s easy to have it on your phone or it’s easy to have it just in a document or just written down anywhere. Thanksgiving, I have a whiteboard in the kitchen.The Notes app on your phone is a wonderful thing. There are even checkboxes you can add there. Once I learned how to use that—game changer.The final part of this puzzle when life comes at you pretty fast is a tricky one. A lot of people who experience the unexpected—what they don’t tell you is that there’s the moment it happens, and then the moment continues on. You’re constantly living in this event because you’re either not back home or your community’s been disrupted. The life that you thought you had or the safety you thought you had isn’t there anymore. You have to find a way to both accept and ride through those emotions.Which encapsulates your rule number five: you have to take care of your mental health.So many of these events are so traumatic. You need that support to make it through. Not all crisis is financial. Well, traditionally, when the financial crisis happens, so do other crises. When you start thinking about, “How am I going to do all this?” you can’t do that by yourself. You have to have somebody to talk to.And you guys offer counseling.We do. We provide grants with universities that have clinical training programs. In exchange for those grants, we have PhD candidates who provide 20 free sessions for food and beverage workers. We’re an emergency relief organization in 50 states. Our Behind You mental health program is in 12 states and D.C., and we hope to have a 13th state by the end of this year.We’re slowly growing. We’re doing it strategically. The last thing we want to do is go into a state and have to pull out because of funding. So that’s why it’s really important to us to make sure that the funding is there. Our two newest states are Michigan and Florida. We’re really excited to have them on board.Chris and Lindsey, thank you so much for continuing your support, throwing the festival—which is happening this year on October 4th—and for providing all these resources for people who both know that they need it and don’t know that they’re going to need it maybe a week or a month or even a year from now.If people want to donate, or follow along with the events, or just see how they can work with you and donate their time, where can they go?SouthernSmoke.org.Thank you so much for sharing our message. It means more than you know.It’s the least I could do. I really appreciate you two making the time. Good luck with everything. And I hope to see you soon.Thank you so much.Thank you very much.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this celebratory Rosh Hashanah episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Amanda Dell, Vice President of Programs and Communications at the Jewish Food Society. She shares her Five Rules for Creating New Traditions through meaningful gatherings rooted in food, memory, and hospitality. From hosting a modern Seder to using her grandma’s heirloom plates, we discuss hosting in a way that’s inclusive, generous, & deeply personal, without losing the thread of tradition, both old & new. As someone raising a family and navigating what it means to carry Jewish tradition forward, I’ve been thinking about how to celebrate the holidays in a way that feels personal, relevant, and connected. I’m not trying to replicate the past exactly, but I don’t want to lose it either. Amanda speaks directly to that balance. Her perspective shares the same permission to adapt—whether that’s hosting Rosh Hashanah dinner on a night when everyone can gather or adding new dishes to the Seder table—without guilt. It reminded me that what matters most is being with the people I love and creating something that’s ours.When people ask me about how the community rebuilding effort in Altadena is coming along, I point to what Randy, April & the entire team at Good Neighbor Bar have done with their patio. Home of the fire map, they transformed their parking lot into a family-friendly patio, featuring a rotating pop-up of local restaurants. Now that space is in trouble, & we need your support, Please sign here and help us get the word out!The Chef Assembly makes its annual LA stop on October 20th, with an impactful lineup of chefs and other culinary luminaries. The event will be held at ChowNow HQ and provide an inclusive space for connection between LA-based chefs, journalists, and industry colleagues from across the country and abroad. Supported by Resy, an American Express company, The Chef Assembly LA will consist of six panels, multiple delicious meal breaks, and a reception! Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I am joined by Amanda Dell, the Vice President of Programs and Communications for the Jewish Food Society. She is helping me ring in the Jewish New Year by sharing her five rules for creating new traditions. She talks about how honoring the past is the best way to create something new for the future, that the most important thing you can do is to get people together to celebrate, and how to always leave your guests wanting more. So Shana Tova and let's get into the rules.Amanda, happy new year on this air of Rosh Hashanah. I hope you got your apples and honey supply in check this year. So excited to chat today and feeling like we go way back, full circle, perfect for Rosh Hashanah in the new year. What I love about Jewish traditions is that they're always centered around food, which I know is something that you have dedicated a good chunk of your life to with your work at the Jewish Food Society. Yeah. Why do you think good food and Jewish traditions go hand in hand?What makes Jewish food so exciting and interesting, why it's such an integral part of our life, is a couple of things. First of all, Jews live all over the world. We do. Our food reflects that. We get to bring some of our traditions, what we eat, depending on the climate, the terroir, the location. Food is actually part of a lot of our holidays. A holiday like Passover, a food that we eat like matzah, it's part of the story. There's a lot of symbolic food. That's a really strong connection. And then there's also in the same vein as matzah, Shabbat foods are foods that are cooked overnight. By following the religion, you get these foods that are specifically made for Shabbat and holidays. I think that's what anchors a lot of Jewish food.Speaking of Passover, one of my favorite traditions was us completing the second half of the Seder during hockey intermissions. What do you love about people taking these historic holidays and making their own traditions within them?I love everything about that. When people want to honor the past, they want to bring some elements of their childhood, but they want to make them their own. To me, the perfect balance is bringing these two worlds together. At Jewish Food Society, we just did an amazing home visit with my friend Marissa Lippert. She's a chef and writer. She has this recipe from her grandma Bibi for kuchen, which is the generic German word for cake. It's something she grew up with. Phoebe would make it for Rosh Hashanah with apple, something very traditional. For Marissa, who's a chef, she puts her own spin on it. It makes it all seasons of the year based on what's at the market. She's feeling kind of puts her own spin on things.I think for people in our age range, I'll say, I think this is the pivotal time to move things into your domains. It feels natural amongst me and my friends that when you're younger and there's a lot of kids in the family, it's more natural to do these holidays and for everyone to come to the grandparents. But then as the older generation passes away and people start having their own families, that's the time it naturally morphs into the next generation.Creating tradition for our generation can be exciting because you get to bring your own perspective onto it, but it can also be really terrifying. I remember the first time I changed something a little bit in my grandma's recipe and I was so nervous for her to try it and she wound up loving it and we had this connection over food and me taking her recipe and making something new. What is the right mindset to have when you want to change a tradition and create something new?Honestly, it's as simple as the act of just being inspired by what has come before you. I love that. It's about thinking about that family member, remembering the tastes, remembering the smells, what the house was like by just updating something or being inspired by something that's more seasonal. It's really just about doing it. I really love this idea of taking all that you've experienced in your life, all that you celebrated, and really making it your own, which is why I'm so excited for you to be here to share your five rules for creating new tradition. Now, whether you're Jewish or you have a different cultural background, there has been so much that has happened that one can pull from to really find inspiration. And your first rule focuses on looking backwards to make the future yours.Number one we touched on a little bit. Honor the past while looking forward. I kind of cheat this one because I actually live in my grandmother's apartment. I totally get a pass there because it's truly honoring the past. My grandmother was a truly amazing person, and I grew up in a family that loves food, but my grandmother went to college. She had a job. She was interested in traveling. She was interested in going out to dinner. So for her, it was never about cooking all the time and being in the kitchen. She wanted to be more modern than that. But loved food and loved eating. So I think she would be so thrilled to see her home filled with my friends, with my sister, with my nephew. I saved some of her most special plateware and pieces. And I love to use those. And that's one way I kind of hold on to the past, but lets me then explore more what I want to cook.That's so beautiful. Yeah. The thing about holidays is that they come around every year, no matter where you are in your life. And so that means when you're getting people together and you're celebrating, that doesn't always mean you're going to be on the same page. But your second rule talks about having that openness to host and celebrate with people who might be in a different spot than you are at that time. What's your rule number two?Rule number two and rule number three go hand in hand. Second rule, meet people where they are. Third rule is the most important thing is getting people there. I just try to really put myself in someone else's shoes of all the people that I want to invite and be like, okay, when is it most convenient for everyone? If it has to be on the second night of a holiday, if it has to be shifted a little bit, we're not waiting till sundown if it's not convenient for everyone. It's really about meeting people where they are is like the best way I can describe it. I don't put so many guardrails around exactly when we're doing it in a certain way. And there's always room for another person. Yes. That is my third rule. It's about getting people there. Assemble a great group and everything will be totally fun as long as you get people there.Even if it's not a traditional group. Totally. For Passover last year, I co-hosted with my sister. It was at her place. We had some friends that weren't Jewish. We had some friends that I never celebrated holidays with before. We had my nephew there who was two. So we had to do like a lot of story time and going through the Seder plate, which was so fun and doing a very two-year-old focused explanation. And then once he went to bed, we broke out more wine.Pouring that extra wine and having extra dishes, even if they traditionally don't go with the dinner or celebration at hand, has always allowed me as a host to relax and also allowed me to push the guests to really indulge and to enjoy themselves. And this type of hospitality aligns with your rule number four.This is a big rule for me. Be generous with the food and the drink. Huge. I love to create something that's really bountiful. Not to hate on anyone, but I think we've all been to events or gatherings where it's very twee, very intimidating. And I hate that. I like to set up a drink area where people can pour their own drinks. I love to just have a lot of variety and make it as visually beautiful as it can and people feel comfortable to dive in.And not get too caught up in what one might expect from food and drink. Totally. Totally. I love to do a combination of something that's more modern, meaning that could be like in the plateware, that could be like in the ingredients, and then do something that's on my grandmother's china or other things that feel like a little more fancy. I like a balance between those two things.And people are always also welcome to bring stuff. Yeah. This isn't one of my rules. Bonus rule. It's typically what happens with my friends. Love to have bonus items. Which I can tell you right now, the idea of anyone bringing extra dishes to my grandmother's Seder. Right. Unless you were assigned. Unless someone had the haroset. Yeah. But even that, not at our house. It feels like a relic of the past, although I respect their generation so much because that was their pride. Yes. That was what they felt was their job. They loved to do that. And I don't want to take anything away from them. It's just not how things are done now.So you've had people over. You've mixed it up. The old and the new. Yeah. Your fifth and final rule focuses on this type of feeling when people leave your house.My fifth rule, which this was, by the way, so fun to get to write these because the last one is something that I always have to remind my friends of, which is always leave them wanting more. There's a crescendo to every event, whether it's something that I'm hosting, whether it's something that I do for work. You know, when your event is at the high point you feel the energy in the room everyone is laughing and you want to hold on to that moment. I truly feel that it's important to know when the event or the night is over. Instead of people hanging out too long it's more about when the night is over you want people being like oh my gosh when can we do that again. Yeah.This is getting very funny and personal. But I am an early to bed, early to rise type of person. You've picked a life of hosting that doesn't always work with that type of approach. Yes. So it's a delicate balance. Yeah. This is something for life too. I want to hold on to the feeling of a great night and I want to leave on that feeling. When it veers into a territory where you've been there a little too long, then you start getting tired. Someone drops a glass. You don't know where your shoes are. And then it's just like, you don't leave with the best feeling. All this is leave on a high note.Well, that's the type of tradition that I think anyone can get behind. Amanda, thank you for sharing. If people want to learn more about the Jewish Food Society or when the next great nosh is going to be, where can they go? How can they follow along?We are at Jewish Food Society on all platforms. You can visit our archive at jewishfoodsociety.org and sign up for our newsletter. We send beautiful recipes and stories a few times a month. And you can follow the Great Nosh at the Great Nosh Picnic.Incredible. Enjoy your feast tonight. Thanks. Happy New Year, Shana Tova. And hopefully we can bring some new traditions together sometime soon. Okay, sounds good. Really appreciate you taking the time to chat and I hope I get to see you soon. Shana Tova.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with author, culinary producer, and certified legendary party person, Courtney McBroom. We talk about her new cookbook Party People: A Cookbook for Creative Celebrations, co-written with her best friend and fellow party person, Brie Larson. The book is a love letter to creative celebration, making space for joy, and giving yourself permission to host however you want. Courtney shares her Five Rules for How to Celebrate the Little Things, from picking the perfect music and lighting, to being open to messing things up, and to aligning good vibes with small moments. Whether you're a solo host or part of a party-planning duo, this one’s packed with smart, elevated, heartfelt advice for making any gathering feel good.Celebrating the little things has kept me grounded these past few months. After the fire, after the stress, after everything, I found myself holding onto small joys more tightly than ever. A Tuesday night dinner with friends, a good tennis session with my kids, and a nice stroll with my wife & the dogs. These tiny moments of gathering have shifted my whole outlook, and Courtney gets that better than anyone. This episode is a reminder that we don’t need an excuse to connect, only a little intention. I walked away inspired to keep throwing parties, especially it’s just my family and me making pizza in the backyard.Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with author, culinary producer, and legendary party person Courtney McBroom, whose new book Party People: A Cookbook for Creative Celebrations, that she co-wrote with her best friend and fellow party person Brie Larson, is out everywhere October 23rd. First, today she shares her five rules on how to celebrate the little things. We chat about how to give yourself grace when hosting, to be open to trying new things and not afraid to mess them up, and how a great aesthetic is just as important as great food. So let's get into the rules.Courtney, so good to see you. Congratulations on your book, Party People. Thank you. It's a gorgeous book. It's a fun book. It's one that makes me want to open my doors and welcome in the people. That's the whole reason why we wrote it. So I'm glad I worked on you.In your mind, what defines a party person? Here's the great thing about being a party person—it’s that literally everyone is a party person. It takes all kinds of things. It's genetically coded in our DNA to get together with other people and be around each other in real life. And so I would argue that even if you're sitting here before me today thinking to yourself, "I'm not a party person," I would argue that that's incorrect. It really is a state of mind.You wrote this book and have thrown quite a few parties with your best friend, Brie Larson. Throwing a party by yourself versus throwing a party with another person, even writing a book by yourself versus writing with another person, is a different approach. How do you compromise when throwing a party with a partner?Working with Brie specifically, we haven't really had to compromise. Because we've been doing this for years since we met, throwing parties together. We're both hardcore party people to the max. There was no real compromise so far. I mean, knock on wood, we're about to go on the press tour. So far, it's been really great. Compromise in general—that's something you have to do with everyone no matter what. If you have any other person in your life, unless you live by yourself in the woods and never speak to anyone, you're going to have to compromise with someone at some point.Brie and I specifically work together really well because I have more of a food background. So I handle most of the intense cooking and food prep and all that stuff. She'll handle getting the decorations and write out the menus and do the party game aspect of it. And of course, we cross over. Of course. And help each other in that. But we found our own natural niches in that way. And so it was really perfect. As a person who's thrown a lot of solo parties, it is very nice to have a partner in crime. It makes all the difference when you don't have to plan and host a party yourself. Yeah, helpful.According to you, everyone is a party person, but there are some people who may have never thrown a party or are trying to elevate their party game. What is the best piece of advice you've received or given?As a person who's made a living out of throwing parties, something that I've learned along the way—the hard way—is to not take it so gosh dang seriously. Make it easy on yourself. If you don't have the bandwidth to do a 10-course meal with 20 of your best friends, invite three people over and order pizza. I love that. It doesn't matter how intense or how far you go. The most important thing is being around people, whether that's your family or your chosen family.My place is really small, so I can't have huge parties. I'll fit four people and we'll have a dance party in my living room. Alzheimer, yeah. But I definitely grew up with Martha Stewart, who I love and adore. I grew up watching her and being like, everything must be perfect and all this stuff and thinking I could never. And then I realized slowly over time, oh, but I can. And it actually doesn't have to be perfect.This idea of finding the appropriate party that fits perfectly into your life is a really good approach to living, which is why I'm so excited to talk about your five rules on how to celebrate the little things, which is really something that you can incorporate into your daily life. The idea of understanding how not to stress yourself out is a big part of starting to celebrate your daily life. What's your rule number one?Rule number one is be easy on yourself. There's a reason why Thanksgiving happens but once a year. We don't have the bandwidth. Not everything has to be some huge blowout with the perfect flower arrangement and the perfect place settings. Let people help you.I remember reading back in the good old days, Emily Post—the etiquette of parties—which is like, never let your party guests help you clean up. I say, absolutely. I have one friend, her name's Erin, and she legitimately loves to clean. And anytime she comes over, I know that she will start doing the dishes and refuse to let anyone help. She always says, it's better to do them when you're drunk than when you're hungover the next day. And I'm like, you know what Erin, you're right. That's a bonus rule.People also really love to cook. If you're making a lasagna and you have friends come over, let them chop an onion. Help your friends help you. Put them to work.One of the greatest pleasures about bringing celebration and partying into your daily life is that impromptu, inviting people over, we're just going to get together, we're going to see each other, which you talk about in your rule number two.Rule number two is don't overthink it. Literally anything can be a party. It doesn't have to be some huge, we got engaged, I'm having a baby, I'm graduating. All of those can most certainly be parties, but you can also be like, oh my God, I found the perfect pair of jeans. Or my best friend finally broke up with that stupid dum-dum they were dating that everyone hated and she finally saw her worth. Literally all the little things that happened throughout our day, throughout our lives, those are all worth celebrating. We have to find those small moments and really lift them up.We've been taught as a culture to push things down and to not celebrate those things and to always be working, always be achieving, and that's not what life's about. One of the parties that we have in the book is called a "brag and complain" party. I love that. It's so fun. Just invite however many friends you want over, sit around a table, you can have little paddles or you can just raise your hands that either say "brag" or "complain." Everyone literally takes turns being like, I have a brag or I have a complaint. And you complain about something and it can be as banal and silly as you want it to be.And in the very beginning, people are a little shy and like, what? This is weird. I couldn't possibly. But then by the end, everyone's like, I have a brag. I have a complaint. And it's so fun and you feel so great afterwards. And just being heard by your peers about the small little things that you want to talk about is so important. And it's not something that we really get to do that much.Having that comfortability and having that openness when you have people over and you get into the habit of hosting and throwing parties at your house is great because it allows you a lot more swings or a lot more at-bats, which is something that I think about when you talk about your rule number three.Don't be afraid to f**k something up. Go in there and do it. Try the hard recipe. Do the thing that you aren't too sure if it's going to work out, but try it anyway. Ideally, you're throwing little parties constantly every day. Celebrating the thing. So it's okay if you do something and the soufflé falls. The most important thing is surround yourself with people that you love and care about and who care about you and love you and share that space together.Taking it a step further, don't be afraid to say or do the hard things. Parties are a liminal space, and we live in a society that's so shame-filled these days, and there's so many people pointing fingers and trolls. I really want to drive home how important it is that we use these places of communion to hold grace for each other and to let people be their wild, messy selves without either feeling ashamed yourself or making other people feel ashamed. It really is so important to have these safe spaces in real life and to be allowed to feel like you can mess up, whether that's messing up the soufflé or calling someone the wrong name.What I like about this mindset of celebrating the little things is that even though you can be easygoing about it, even though there's room to f**k things up, you still need to bring some intention to make it feel like you put some effort into it, either for yourself or for those surrounding you. What's your rule number four?My fourth rule is think of your party as three acts with a little activity as a through line. What I've discovered always works best is act one: you have a welcome cocktail plus some light snacks. Easy. It could be like a bowl of chips. So that way when people show up, they have something to drink and something to snack on.Then you have part two, which would be the main dishes, the main crux of the meal. And I usually like to do beer and wine with that. You can keep serving cocktails if you like. I also recommend batching out cocktails so you're not making cocktails for everyone all night.Part three is after dinner where you're just hanging around the table. I like to offer like an Amaro or a digestif, dessert if you're so inclined.The one thing that I found is most important is having some sort of uniting theme that can run through the whole party, whether that's an actual theme or something as simple as, "Hey, I'm having a dinner party, come over, and the theme is wear something that you love that's in your closet that you never get to wear." Brie loves to have a little side table with a puzzle on it so that people can go do a puzzle during the party. Something that can help those with social anxiety, give something to talk about, something to do, so it's not just a bunch of small talk. If you have something that kind of unites everyone together at the party, it gives everyone something to rally around—besides just being there to eat, which is great too—but there's so many different things you can do activity-wise, puzzle-wise, game-wise, and it's fun.I love this idea of having activities because it adds a little bit of joy and fun, especially if you're celebrating every day. And while cooking for people and feeding them is always the thing that I think about the most, your fifth rule deals with these two style elements to make sure that your hosting is always a hit.As important as the food is—and you know I think food is very important—I know, I know, I know. Anytime I roll up to a dinner party and the light is really bright, no one looks good right now. I know I don't either. So the lighting needs to be good, a little bit dim, unless you're at a daytime party, that's different. And also music. Nothing ruins a party more than if it's really bad music or the music's way too loud and you can't talk to anyone. I would almost say I would rather no music than really loud music. Fair.Think about the music that you want to play. Make a little playlist beforehand and set it at a reasonable level. Unless you're having a dance party, in which case pump it up.Courtney, congratulations on the book. It comes out October 21st. Pre-orders available now wherever you buy books. Yes. Support your local bookstore.I know you've been posting videos of the two of you cooking from the book and some also fun promo videos, but then also there's a book tour. Where can they go to come out and see you two chat it up and party with you in real life?We'll be doing a lot of dates in New York, a lot of stuff in LA, and then we're planning everything else in between right now. So I would say follow Party People on Instagram or me or Brie. We'll be letting everyone know where to go and when as we get closer.So excited for this book to come out, especially right in time for the holiday season. It is going to hopefully inspire a lot of people to embrace their inner party person. Yes.Well, I'll definitely see you in LA at some of the events. And cheers. Cheers to you. Thanks for having me on. This was really fun. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with chef & restaurateur Alon Shaya, co-founder & chef of Pomegranate Hospitality. He shares his Five Rules for Supporting Local Restaurants, and we discuss what it means to invest in your community, from celebrating the institutions that have built a city’s identity to connecting with new spots that are pushing the industry forward. We discuss how eating early helps a restaurant’s bottom line, showing up for seasonal traditions shows how much you care about their personal story, and how simply taking the time to thank the people who make your meal possible makes all of the difference.Talking with Alon reminded me how deeply I care about investing in restaurants at every level. It’s not just about fine dining or hard-to-book tables. It’s about the corner coffee shop, the deli that’s been in my neighborhood for decades, the taco spot that remembers my kids’ names. Supporting these places creates community, and every dollar spent, whether on a full tasting menu or a single flat white, goes a long way in keeping them open and thriving. I am excited to be moderating the closing reception of Nicholas Hondrogen's show at The Hole in Los Angeles on Sunday, September 14th at 12 pm. I will be chatting with Jeff Vespa, the Head of Nicholas Hondrogen's estate, and Jeremy Shockley, one of LA's dreamiest artists today.Family Style, LA’s all timer of a food festival, is back this Saturday, 9.13! Snag tickets here and keep your eyes peeled for exclusive drops!Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.It is always a pleasure when I get to sit down with today’s guest, Alon Shaya, chef and co-founder of Pomegranate Hospitality. He’s here today to share his five rules for supporting local restaurants. We talk about the importance of continuing to dine at local legends, why eating on the early side isn’t just good for making bedtime, but also for helping a restaurant’s bottom line, and why thanking everyone who cooks and serves you at a meal is so meaningful. So let’s get into the rules.Alon, it’s so great to see you. Always excited when we can make time to sit down together. Thanks for coming on the show.Thanks so much for having me. I’m really honored to be on this and excited to get into what I love about New Orleans.One of the things I’ve always appreciated about your career is your deep love and appreciation for restaurants and their place in communities and neighborhoods. Why do you think they hold this kind of singular importance more than almost any other business?Well, you know, I’ll speak from my own experience. I was living in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina, and in the aftermath of the storm, I saw it firsthand. I saw restaurants become the place where the community gathered, and I understood at that moment the importance they hold in people’s lives. It really set the tone for the way I believe I should operate my restaurants and what I love so much about restaurants — and about New Orleans as well.Having gone through the Eaton Canyon fire, it was restaurants who showed up first to support and feed the community. So many people want to give that support back, but it’s hard to ignore just how expensive it’s gotten to go out to eat. Why is it still so important for people who can to invest in restaurants, and for those who want to support but can’t afford a huge meal, what advice do you give them?I think it’s about supporting an entire ecosystem — not just sustenance, but human gathering. There’s a real cost to missing out on being together, engaging in live conversations, and restaurants are such a natural way to do that. Everyone has to find a place where they’re comfortable, and also comfortable with what they can spend. Things are more expensive today, sure, but you can still find good deals out there. I’ll grab a seat with a friend at a local dive, order a sandwich and a beer, and still feel really connected. There are ways to do it without spending a lot of money.I know that through your philanthropy with the Shaya Barnett Foundation, you’re teaching the next generation of chefs, restaurateurs, and even diners about what it means to be part of the culinary scene and support restaurants. Why is that so important to you?We have to. I was educated by someone. As a young cook and culinary student, I had people step up and reach out to me. They helped shape my career and my path forward. I feel like the greatest gift I can give is reciprocating that generosity and belief — that people can reach their goals, no matter what profession they choose. Being a chef, cook, manager, or server, there are ways to make it an incredible life. But you need people along the way who are willing to help show you that path and guide you forward. I hope I can make a difference in someone’s life the way people made a difference in mine. Passing along that knowledge is so important.And even beyond education, there’s an understanding that going out to eat represents so much more, which is why I’m excited for you to share your five rules for supporting local restaurants. Your first rule hits home, especially these days when it feels like every week I see a legend — especially in LA — shutting down.My first rule is always support the local institutions, the places that have been around for a generation or more. That’s such an important way to keep a city and a neighborhood grounded in tradition. It’s easy to get caught up in what’s hot and new, but I love going to those classic spots. In New Orleans, one of my go-tos is Pascal Manale’s. It’s been around for over 100 years and is just two blocks from my house. I bring friends and family there, show them off, and talk about how special the city is because of places like that.Going to the classics is big for me, but that also ties into my second rule: go early. Supporting a restaurant doesn’t always mean getting the Friday night 8 p.m. table. One of the greatest ways to show love to a place you care about is by going at off-peak times. I like to be in bed by 9 p.m. these days — two kids will do that to you — so I love the 5 or 6 p.m. reservation. It’s a great time to connect with the chef, manager, or team before the chaos hits. Showing up early lets you engage with the people who make it happen, enjoy the meal, and then get out so they can turn the table and make another round of guests happy.This ties into my third rule, which is about celebrating traditions. I love supporting restaurants during those moments when a city comes alive — whether it’s Mardi Gras, Jazz Fest, or any other special time. Every city has its moments, and I like seeing what restaurants are doing to celebrate them. In New Orleans during Carnival season, for example, bakeries and restaurants all make their own versions of king cake. I love going around, trying them all, and showing my support for those limited-time offerings. It honors the moment and strengthens the connection between locals, the community, and the restaurants.Supporting restaurants also goes deeper than just showing up to eat, which leads to my fourth rule: show appreciation for the people who make the experience happen. I see how hard teams work, from the front of house to the back. Hosts greet hundreds of people a day with a smile, chefs work long hours under pressure, and servers deal with demanding guests. Saying thank you goes a long way. I always make a point to leave a good tip, wave to the chefs if I pass an open kitchen, or even ask to step back and thank the entire team personally. I think those moments really matter.Finally, my fifth rule is to support the people and places you believe in. I love eating at restaurants where I know the owners care about their team, their community, and their vision. When you go to a restaurant where the values align with yours, everything feels better — the music sounds sweeter, the food tastes better, and the whole experience just clicks. Supporting those kinds of people and places ensures that one day they’ll become the institutions future generations can enjoy.Amazing. Well, Alon, thank you so much for sharing. If people want to see what you’re up to or learn more about what Pomegranate Hospitality is working on, where can they go? How can they come eat your food and support your restaurants?Come visit us in New Orleans or Denver, Colorado. We have Saba in New Orleans, as well as Miss River and the Chandelier Bar. And in Denver, we have Safta, which continues to be a really special place for us. You can also follow me on Instagram at @ChefAlonShaya, where I keep everyone updated on what we’re doing, where I’m going, and who I’m supporting. Please follow along and say hello.Thank you so much for making the time. And hopefully I'll be at one of your spots sooner than later.Thanks so much, man. Appreciate it.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I’m joined by Sue Chan, founder of Care of Chan and C/O/C Projects. In this episode, she shares her Five Rules for Hosting with Heart, covering everything from curating an intimate guest list to setting an intentional tone to the importance of toasting guests. We talk about what it takes to make gatherings meaningful, memorable, and grounded in personal connection.Talking with Sue brought me right back to planning our wedding with my wife, Anna. I remember the hours we spent debating the decor, the lighting, and how to make the ceremony feel like us. That experience taught me how powerful personal details can be in shaping a moment, and that same lesson echoed throughout this conversation. Storytelling has always been at the center of what I do, whether I’m building a show, producing an event, or just hosting dinner. Sue’s perspective reminded me that when you lead with heart and clarity, the people you gather can feel it.Photo by Matthew GlueckertFive Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptionHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today I sit down with my friend and colleague, Sue Chan, founder of Care of Chan, COC Projects, and a staple of the New York and LA restaurant scenes. She shares her five rules on how to host with heart. We chat about her lifetime dedicated to hosting, how storytelling is key to making any event a moment, and how gathering guests for a few words can make a night memorable.So let's get into the rules.Sue, always a pleasure to see your smiling face coast to coast. Thank you for taking the time and sitting down with me on the show.You and I have worked together in the past and talked a lot about our approach to hosting and hospitality. What I love about your approach is that it's been a part of your life almost your entire life. I remember the story you told me where you threw your first dinner party in second grade.Yes, it was for my birthday party when I turned eight years old.What has drawn you to hosting and throwing parties?I moved around a lot as a kid because my parents were academics. I pretty much moved every four years when I was younger. Because of that, I had to make friends in every single new school that I went to. So building community has just always been something really important to me, and something that I got a few reps in throughout my life.Some of those reps were working in the restaurant industry. You've worked at some of the most high-end restaurants in New York, and you're friends with a lot of chefs. What from that world have you incorporated both into your personal life and your professional life, especially with hospitality and hosting?I always take a hospitality-first approach to the events that we plan. It's not just about having a beautiful tablescape or having a delicious grazing platter. It's about what are the extra touches that you add to everything to make it feel super personal. Those details really make the difference between a good event and a great event.What I’ve always loved about Care of Chan, your agency, is that in addition to those details, storytelling is a big part of what you do. Why is that so important to you and to throwing a good event?Whenever we plan events, it's really important for us to identify what story we're trying to tell. That story can be something as simple as a theme, or it can be something as complicated as, “I want guests to walk away with this feeling.” From there, when you decide the food or the tablescape, it levels up into that story you're trying to tell.That story and hosting with intention and putting your whole being into it is something that is learned over time and something I think people can see on social media and not really know how to get started. That’s why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules on how to host with heart. This includes the details, the storytelling, everything that goes into the final iteration of a hosting moment or an event.Over the years, I have thrown parties both big and small, and I've really come to enjoy the latter—the smaller parties—which ties into your first rule. What is your rule number one?My absolute mandatory rule is no phones at all on the floor.Bonus rule?Yes. Almost like rule zero, like a starting point. Base level is absolutely no phones. Sure, take your content that you need to take at the beginning, but then put that phone away so you can be super present. But yeah, my official first rule is to keep it intimate—smaller, more curated guest lists. Curated doesn’t mean exclusive. It means that someone shares a common value or a common passion. Whether it’s a chess-themed event or everyone is from your running club or everyone is a mom, having some sort of curation really helps foster deeper connections. Those more intimate, curated groups allow people to have more intimate conversations.And it also allows you to feel comfortable in asking them for this, which is rule number two.Rule number two is invite contribution. Ask your dinner guests to take part in your event. Maybe they help cook. Maybe they bring their favorite bottle of wine. Maybe they bring a dessert that they love. Nothing feels warmer than a meal made together, no matter the contribution. Let’s say one of your friends isn’t a super foodie—maybe they can bring the flowers and arrange the flowers for the table. I think people come with greater intention when they have actually contributed to the night. Contributions through things like decor and helping to set the scene are really important, because even when you have people over to your house, there should be some sort of transformation.Or if you go to a bar or a restaurant, which ties directly into your third rule.Create a sense of place. Transport your guests to your favorite setting—real or imagined. Dress the room, dress yourself, dress your guests even. Are you throwing a pajama party and does everyone need to come in pajamas? Are you maybe giving them a set of pajamas to wear to the party? Perhaps you always vacation in Italy in the summer but weren’t able to make it this year, so instead you throw a party inspired by spending a summer in Italy. For that party, you bring in all of your favorite accents from Italy. You have a spritz bar. The entire menu is a coastal summer Italian menu. The décor is also in line with that. Perhaps you bring in some Italian ceramics to decorate the space, and then you play Italodisco. What can you do to transport your guests to your favorite setting?When you're hosting, when you're throwing a party—especially something that means a lot to you—people want to become a part of that world. I think with your rule number four, this is a must-have to make a party your own.Rule number four is add personal touches. Infuse the programming of the night with your craft. Personalize the takeaway. Show your guests a piece of you. Perhaps you serve your favorite childhood dish, and then that becomes a talking point and you can share that with your guests. When you share personal touches at an event, it really shows your guests that they matter. It’s that care, not extravagance, that really transforms a moment into a memory—and a guest into family.I love that so much. That transformation of people coming together has to catch a certain rhythm, and you don’t ever want to really disrupt the party once it gets flowing. But I do think it is important at some point to take a pause, bring everyone together, and do your rule number five.Rule number five: raise a glass. Always make a toast at an event because it frames the gathering and reminds everyone why we've all come together. It's important because then people walk away knowing what it is they just experienced and why it was that we were celebrating. So it's always important to set an intention at an event.Sue, congratulations. Love what you're doing with your events and the storytelling and the worlds that you've built through Care of Chan. If people want to check out your work or maybe they want to hit you up to work with you, where can they go?They should follow us on Instagram at @careofchan or check out our website at careofchan.com.Well, Sue, here's to more hosting and I hope to be in a room with you raising a glass very soon.Yes. Thank you, Darin. Cheers. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this week’s Five Rules for the Good Life, I’m posted up in Houston with Aaron Bludorn and Cherif Mbodji, friends and partners in the growing Bludorn Hospitality Group. They share their Five Rules for Juggling a Family and a Restaurant Group, including embracing therapy, building trust within their teams, and even attending Phish shows. They discuss scheduling family time like a meeting, getting comfortable with taking weekends off, and why joy has to be part of the plan. This conversation is about doing the work and still making room for happiness. These five rules serve as a blueprint for anyone seeking to achieve balance without burning out, especially when they have people relying on them at work and at home.This conversation really stayed with me. I deeply believe in finding balance between the intensity of creative work and being a present dad & partner. Hearing how Aaron and Cherif navigate that same space, especially in the high-pressure world of restaurants, was both inspiring and affirming. It’s not just about running a business, but about building a life that feels full, fun, and aligned with their core values. Their honesty made me reflect on how I’m doing my best by showing up for my own family, and also gave me a little more permission to protect that space as well.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Transcript:Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I'm in the deep heart of Texas, hanging out with Aaron and Cherif of the Blue Dorn Hospitality Group. It started as a friendship in the New York restaurant scene and has transformed into one of Houston's fastest growing and most exciting restaurant empires.Today, they share their five rules to juggling a family and a restaurant group. We chat about the importance of getting exercise and therapy, that the key to success is communication above all else, and we go back and forth on the rivalry between the Astros and the Dodgers. So let's get into the rules.Aaron and Cherif, so good to meet you. Thank you for taking time out of your busy restaurant empire to chat with me today on Five Rules for the Good Life. Welcome to the show.Thank you. Thank you for having us. Excited to be on the call.What I found as I've gotten older is that so many of my work habits have been directly inspired by my parents. And I find that people usually take a path as they get into their own adult working life—either embracing their parents' work ethic or running away in the opposite direction. What do you remember of your own parents' work-family balance and were you drawn to it or did you run away from it?My dad was an airline pilot, so he had a very set schedule. He worked 12 days out of every month and then he was off 100% of the time after that. I would say I ran away from it. He had a ton of time off. I gravitated toward a career in kitchens that was 16 hours a day, six days a week. And I still feel like I learned my work ethic from my father, but yeah, I definitely went the other way.Same here. I grew up in a family very stable where we spent a lot of time around each other. My mom was a stay-at-home mom and my dad—very typical government 9-to-5 job. He was around the household a lot. We all had breakfast, lunch, dinner daily together.I love that. I mean, those are beautiful memories and that's what I grew up with. And I think if anything, it really gives you this sense of family presence and having parents who are around all the time. They were able to raise their kids, and you always kind of want some of that, no matter how busy life is.Wanting those things I think comes later in life. What were those early days like when you were all-in, getting your jump on your career in the restaurant industry?Well, the greatest thing about those days was that it was just me that I had to worry about. Throughout my 20s, full-in on learning how to cook, learning how to run a kitchen. I knew that the more I put into it, the more I'd get out of it. I remember just knowing that if I worked hard now, I'd be able to have what I wanted later.That's good foresight. The harder you work, the easier it is to write your own ticket. And knowing that that's where you want to go, you can create your own path through that.That was my goal—to always give myself as much flexibility as possible.As you started your own restaurant and as you guys came together as partners in the Blue Dorn Group, when did you start to think about having balance, getting to write your own ticket? Was it an active thought that you worked toward or was it, “Oh, we're having a kid and this is what it's leading to”?My wife had a big part in pushing me towards finding balance very quickly after our first child came. We were in the throes of opening up our first restaurant. But I had also watched Cherif go through all of that. Cherif had kids when we worked together in New York and watching him balance those two... and I always thought that he did a really great job.I don't know whether your wife thinks so or not.I don't know.And that inspired me. The hardest pill I had to swallow was my wife being pretty adamant that I took Saturdays off along with Sundays. I felt this immense sense of guilt, like I wasn't contributing to my team. But then I realized that my whole team all got two days off themselves.Of course.Well, and I'd always been pretty adamant about that. I would push for that. And so I'm like, well, why am I cutting my nose off to spite my face just to work the sixth day and not create balance?And one of the things that really helped me out is going to therapy to work less.Yeah, to let go.Well, when you have this mindset and you're just thinking about yourself and working for yourself, and then other people come to rely on you—both at work and at home—you've got to shift that mindset. And sometimes, having therapy really helps.And for those who haven't crossed into that world of therapy, I'm really excited for you guys to share your five rules for juggling a family and a restaurant group. Or for those who just have one restaurant—it applies, I think, just as well.Your very first rule was the first step I took into finding a balance. What is your rule number one?Keeping healthy is extremely important to us. And it became something really apparent. Aaron's been really someone who actually has inspired me to start working out again because he's very active.He runs.Love it.And I remember one time I wasn't driving when I first moved here and I would catch a ride with him all the time. As we're pulling up here in front of our office, he says to me, “Our health is the biggest factor in our ability to be happy and successful.” And it is true. 100%.I think that also speaks to staying healthy mentally. The ability to find ways to calm yourself, to collect yourself. For a long time, running has always been a way for me to sort of filter out the day or set myself up for the day. Having yourself in a healthy mind space where you're not just burning the candle at both ends—having a healthy mind, a healthy body—it all comes from us, especially the drive and the push and the leadership. And if everyone sees that we're taking care of ourselves, they will as well. And that's so important in keeping the machine going.Being very public about shifting the way you eat and going to therapy is pretty vulnerable, especially in a very competitive place like a kitchen or a restaurant group. Which ties directly into rule number two and surrounding yourself with a certain type of people. What's your second rule?Building a team you trust and building that trust with your team. For us, it's been all about team building since day one. We've been so lucky to have such amazing people come on board and work for us. And it's picking the right people that mesh well, setting up a culture with those people where everyone buys into it. Where if you have someone that comes in that doesn't fit that mold or potentially is a bad influence, they find themselves out pretty quickly.One other thing I want to point out in here that's so important is paying them appropriately and paying them well. You can't try to nickel and dime your team. You have to pay them what they're worth.It's an investment. It's an investment in your own company and how your company grows. If you don't take care of your team, you get what you pay for. We are very open with our team. They're all very invested and aware of how we're performing as a group. They understand the financial operation side of things. And we sit with our team members every six months—not just annually—where we are constantly making sure that they feel valued. Whatever their worth is, it's acknowledged and taken care of to that extent.You talked about supporting the team you've built at work, but there's the other team at home where the balance is really important—because the team at home gets you for two days and the team at work gets you for five. What is your rule number three?It's protecting family time. Family time is something that, just as we think about important meetings or the things that we have on our calendar and protect and make sure that there is no excuse—we're there for it—family time is treated the same way.It starts with creating the culture where we are understanding and respectful of each person's family time. We do our best to give you the space to spend it with your family. If they have wants and needs with their family, we respect that just like we ask them to respect ours. That’s from day one. Because if we're equitable in the way that we protect this—so it's not just us that's being protected—everyone will find ways to run blocking for each other. Knowing that that is the way that it works in our company is incredibly important.But this is specific to our role and how we are obviously running this company with all these restaurants and still able to do this. There's a lot of effort that goes into protecting those days. It is easy to fill your schedule and even the best intentions of balance doesn't always happen.The restaurant is a fickle business, and at the end of the day, people look to you for leadership. Striking that balance by giving a day here to the restaurant when they need it, or to your family—or vice versa—ties directly into your rule number four. And that's good communication.Yeah, having good communication is so important—whether it's communication between me and Cherif. A lot of it is good communication between me and my wife. My wife actually does work alongside Cherif and me.You met in the restaurant industry?We did. She understood what I go through and the needs, the pulls that this career has on me. Keeping our calendar is so important. There are a lot of days that she asks me to pick up our kids from school and I’ll make time to do that.Having that open communication with your significant other—that's what allows us to do what we're doing. Being very transparent about whatever it is that we need to do or where we need to be. Because at the end of the day, they're invested in our success as well too.Of course.Yeah, of course. And you'll see this as your kids grow. They get to an age when they start to be aware of your schedule and start putting themselves in your schedule. My kids will ask me, “When are you off next?” “Are you around this weekend for sure?”—things like that. Because they want to plan, and when you say yes and confirm something with them, you need to be there. Because a last-minute change is a task for them.My kids are younger. They're seven and four and they still want to hang out with me all the time. I know that will change and that'll be a day that I will probably have to talk to my therapist about. But as much as they want to hang out with me, making that time when they do is really important. Which gets to your last rule—because it's all work, it's all really tough, it's a lot of communication—but it's all for this. What is your rule number five?We make time to have fun.Yes, I love it.This is also not only making time to have fun with your team at work—because working in restaurants is fun, that’s what attracted us to it. It's not only having fun with your family, which is so important to find those times to take them to the Astros game—Are you bringing your own trash cans?Hey, you know, if Altuve tells me to do something, I can hear it in my earpiece... anyway.Finding time to do family dinners—that's important. But Cherif and I also have found that having fun ourselves is very important. And we found this a year in—I took Cherif to a Phish show. It was his first one in 2022, and found that this was a way for us to enjoy ourselves. It's something I've always enjoyed since I was younger but had more meaning once I became a dad.Finding a way to break away from everything else—you come back so much more focused, dedicated, grateful to everything you have. Find something that's yours that you really, really enjoy. That you can go leave everything for and then come back to your whole life. It makes me a better dad, a better leader, a better everything that I do. I'm so grateful for it.Happiness is something that you seek. You have to create those moments for yourself, for your family, for people. And the happier you are, the more you find yourself in your happy place, the more you can pull people in and help people find theirs. It’s really that balance of work and family and self—and it’s always just trying to get them all equal.Congratulations on everything—on the restaurant group, congratulations on working to find the balance. It's really hard. And I really appreciate how open you are with your staff and with all the listeners. And for anyone out there who's younger and listening—I can tell you, you either find the balance early or it's going to find you later on and make you find it.That's true.Well said.Well said.If people want to follow along with what's going on with the Blue Dorn Group or the different restaurants or what you guys are up to, where can they go?On Instagram, it's @bludornhtx. I am @aaronbludorn. www.bludornrestaurant.com. Those are the best ways to find us.Amazing. Thank you so much. Have a great day.Go Dodgers.Boo Astros.Thank you. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with my friend and colleague, Andrew Friedman, author, podcaster, and one of my favorite writers working in food today. We dig into his Five Rules for Living an Artist’s Life, from trusting your gut to trusting the process, and why sometimes the hardest part is just having the confidence to call yourself an artist in the first place. Whether you’ve got a blank page, a hot stove, or a guitar in hand, this episode is a reminder that finding your voice is a lifelong process—and it’s worth every step.This one hit close to home. I’ve spent a career in creative work—producing, directing, writing—but for whatever reason, I’ve always hesitated to use the word “artist” when talking about myself. Hearing Andrew talk about permitting yourself to own that title, even if only internally, was a real shift. This episode isn’t just about the craft. It’s about belief. Belief in your instincts, your process, your weird ideas, and your voice—even if it’s still forming. And maybe, just maybe, it gave me the nudge I needed to start saying it out loud.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptionHello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I am so excited to be sitting down with my friend and colleague, writer and author, Andrew Friedman.He has written some of my favorite books about the culinary world, including Chefs, Drugs, and Rock and Roll, and The Dish, which is a deep dive into how one plate of food can represent the entire industry. I also enjoy his weekly podcast, Andrew Talks to Chefs, where he sits down and chats with some of the greatest voices and minds of the food scene. He joins me today to share his five rules for living an artist's life, and he gets into finding the right balance between working and living, what it really means to trust your gut, and the all-important north star, which is finding your voice.So let's get into the rules. Andrew, it is always a pleasure to see you and to chat with you. I feel like we've gotten to have a lot of conversations this year, and it just makes me so happy.I feel the same way, and it was all kind of happenstance, right? It all kind of started when we ran into each other at the big benefit for the LA Fires. And who says there was no benefits for my house burning down? A small price to pay. A small price to pay.I'm so excited to see you today to chat about your career in creative work and being an author and everything that's fallen under that umbrella. And before we get to the latter stuff, I want to talk about the earlier days. Do you remember the first time you did any sort of creative work? I don't know that it was that unusual, but I do remember little assignments, like in elementary school.I had done this kind of illustrated story. There was this whole civilization, like in caves, like underground. And I remember the teacher wrote, what an imagination.And I was really young when I did it. Yes. There's this crazy memory, and I swear to God, it's true.The Miami News, which used to be the Miami afternoon newspaper, and every year they had a scary story contest at Halloween. And I wrote the winning entry for my age category in about half an hour. I had an idea, and I banged it out, and I mailed it in.Love it. But I didn't know I had won until I went to a newsstand after school that day, bought a copy of the paper, and opened it up, and there was my story. And that was a big moment.Having those moments, having those early creative wins are so important, because it shows you that there can be success in doing this type of work, or having an idea and turning something real. And in addition to that, having someone support that creative work, whether it's a family member or a teacher. If you don't have that, good luck trying to get any sort of creative work done in your life.Yeah. Who was that in your life that supported you in your early endeavors? When it came to the mechanics and the craft of writing, there were teachers all the way back to elementary school who told me what a good writer I was. A woman named Eleanor Bachman at my elementary school.Several others. When I was at Columbia, undergraduate as an English major, there was a professor named Victoria Silver. I remember sitting in her office, and she was one of many teachers who felt like I wasn't really applying myself.And I still remember this sentence. She said to me, she said, you are incapable of writing an unintelligent sentence. The place where I was constantly for 10 years of my education, getting reinforcement was on the writing front.Getting this reinforcement and having all this support throughout your childhood and into college, when did you realize that you were actually making a go of it professionally? What was the tipping point? At the end of my freshman year, I read The Great Gatsby on a flight home. And that's when I decided, I'm not kidding, sounds overly romanticized, but that's when I decided I wanted to be a writer. That book made me want to see if I could make a go of doing prose fiction, actual narrative fiction, which I haven't yet managed to do.But I also haven't really pursued that beyond short stories in college. From that initial thought after reading Great Gatsby to where you are today, you've lived quite a life and put together quite a portfolio. So I'm excited for you to share your five rules for living an artist's life.And the very first rule you have is interesting because it's about the actual naming of that life itself. What is your rule number one? My first rule is don't be afraid to call yourself an artist, even if only internally. I think if you ask 10 different people to define what makes somebody an artist, you might get 10 different answers.But I do think if you are trying to do something that has meaning, something that might affect other people, that might provoke an emotional or an intellectual response. And to you, that is art. Declare that for yourself, to own that, to kind of commit to that level of ambition and intent, I think is something that one should not apologize for and one should put out there.And if you don't want to put it out to the world, at least in your own mind, that's an important thing to know for your own self and for your work and for how you go about your life. But I do think that's an important distinction. Putting work out there is such an important part of living the artist's life and trusting your gut.What's your rule number two? My second rule is to go with your instinct, no matter how weird or idiosyncratic it might seem. And all I mean by that is I worked for a film producer for four or five years right after college. I remember we had a new intern starting one day and he was kind of giving her a briefing.They were talking about reading screenplays. And he was saying, not just in reading screenplays, but when you go to movies or when you read books, just be attuned to what pleases you. And don't worry about, is it high or low? Is it sophisticated or sophomoric? Just figure out what floats your boat.I put out my third solo nonfiction book about a year and a half ago. And it's the first book where I really feel like I homed in on my voice. What is my real voice? And it's because I stopped trying to kind of put on airs and I let myself sound the way in a full length book that I sound in my emails or that I sound in blog posts where I used to feed my blog more often.There's some irreverent humor and I got the best reviews that I'd gotten, but I've stopped trying to be anyone but me. And I think for better or for worse, I'm writing stuff that's more true to myself. A lot of what I thought artists did for a living was inspired by the movies that I watched as a kid.And their lives consisted mainly of long martini lunches, gallivanting around New York City, dinner parties that lasted deep into the night, and most of the creation of art was done off screen. And that the emphasis of their work-life balance was definitely on the life part. Your third rule challenges that perception I had.What is your rule number three? My third rule is to ignore the zeitgeist and specifically all the talk in the last several years about balance. Work-life balance is certainly healthy. I do also think that it can be just downright incompatible with an artistic ambition.Years ago, Lin-Manuel Miranda, before anyone had heard of him, tweeted something that said Lin-Manuel Miranda dot dot dot is working on Founding Fathers on Saturday night. And years later he retweeted it. It was a little message above it that basically said, you will have to say no to some things to say yes to work.It will be worth it. Of course. And of course, Founding Fathers eventually got renamed.It was Hamilton. And I just moved back to New York City two and a half years ago from suburbia. And my kids are in college now and I could be out every, especially doing what I do for a living.I could be out every night of the week. Absolutely. And if I showed you my calendar on my iPhone right now, it's almost all white because I have really backed off on plans.I will not have lunch on any day except Friday. And I just want to be here working on stuff. That's awesome.If you want to be doing something that rises to a certain level, you're not entirely in control of when the best of that is going to be available to you. I still live by this notion of sometimes the muse descends. And when that happens, I want to be available for that.Unless you get struck by inspiration like you did for your scary story, you're going to have to make that time to sit down and write. Exactly. On the other side of the work-life balance coin is a question that every artist must ask themself and ties directly into your rule number four.Well, my fourth rule goes back to myself and every other English major I spent time with when I was in college, was fascinated by. And the American poet, Wallace Stevens, who was one of the great poets of the 20th century, who was also for his entire adult life, the vice president of a bank. But my only point here is everybody needs to come to terms with, if you're not among the super talented and a little bit lucky people who can make a really good living as a writer, at some point need to reckon with, are you willing to be a starving artist because of this idea you have that that is what you're going to do with your life? Or is the art an end in itself? Can you be satisfied with simply producing it, whether for yourself or for a limited number of people out there, or selling it piecemeal to literary magazines or gigging on the weekend with your band or whatever it is? And do you, at the same time, have just a certain need for creature comforts, for financial security? No, I'm being totally serious.Do you have a family? No, I totally get it. Yeah. Do you have a family? Most things we're talking about, whether it's composing, performing, writing, painting, whatever it is, most of those things can happen on your own, shared with a limited audience.And you might want to consider having a job, if not a career, in a non-artistic realm that will just set you up to lead a more comfortable life and be able to take vacations and go to a nice restaurant for your birthday and all these things. I do think that is something worth considering if you haven't turned into John Grisham by the time you're 35. Your last rule really resonated with me because I remember, maybe not the exact date, but the exact time in my life when there was the before moment and the after moment.What is your fifth rule? My fifth rule is to find your voice. I'll put quotes around the word voice. It could be an artistic style.It could be a culinary style, whatever your medium is. But to find your voice and to keep finding and honing it. This kind of dovetails with something I said a few minutes ago.There's a writer named Tom Jones, T-H-O-M Jones. He wrote a great collection of short stories called The Pugilist at Rest. And somewhere in the introduction to that book, he talks about, I think he had been a high school janitor at one point.And somewhere in the intro, he says something about, I didn't realize how long the journey to the interior would be. And I really do believe this. I think this is something a lot of us have as kids and a cruel society has trained it out of us.But this idea of just being who you are. Here I am, I've been making a living as a writer for 25 years, maybe. And I'm just finding that gear for myself.But I feel like it would have been there when I was 10. You got covered up and then you got to peel it back like layers of paint. Everyone's always telling you what you can't do, right? Book editors don't want to buy a certain idea.No one wants anything that's too outside the box. You have to constantly be resistant to that headwind. Andrew, if people want to read any work, buy any of your books, hear about your next book coming up, where can they go? How can they see all the work you've done as an artist? The easiest thing would probably just go to the website for my podcast, which has a page devoted to all the books I've written and collaborated on and has a full bio of me.And that is andrewtalkstochefs.com. And then my main Instagram feed is toquelanddandrew, that's T-O-Q-U-E. Congratulations on everything. Good luck with the next writing endeavor.And hopefully I'll get to see you in person again real soon. Thank you, Darin. Thanks for having me on. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

On this week’s episode, I sit down with Alvin “Pepper” Baumer III, the president and CEO of Crystal Hot Sauce and born-and-bred ambassador of New Orleans. Pepper shares his Five Rules for Southern Hospitality straight from the Big Easy—where the host is always gracious, the drinks are always served cold, and the music never stops. We chat about what it means to take on the responsibility of hosting, how to curate the perfect vibe, and how to make everyone feel like family the moment they walk through the door. Talking with Pepper reminded me of why I love hosting. It’s something I grew up with—watching my family welcome friends, neighbors, and near-strangers into our home with open arms, full plates, and the right music flowing from the speakers. Pepper gets it. His approach to Southern Hospitality is rooted in intention: making sure his guests are fed, heard, seen, and sent off already dreaming of the next invite. We connected over our shared love of New Orleans’ culture, where music and food are more than entertainment: they’re acts of service. From backyard boils to black-tie dining, Pepper shares the ethos that’s kept his family’s love for hosting alive for over a century and why he’s honored to carry on the tradition of care, flavor, & celebration.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptHello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.Today, I sit down with New Orleans native Alvin “Pepper” Baumer III, the CEO and president of Crystal Hot Sauce, an iconic American hot sauce that has been around for over 100 years. Pepper shares his five rules for Southern hospitality and his deep love for the Big Easy. We chat about the importance of having hot food and cold drinks, the importance of music setting the vibe, and how to leave your guests always wanting more.Let's get into the rules. Pepper, great to meet you. Appreciate you sitting down with me today. Coming all the way from New Orleans, the one LA to the other LA. Welcome to the show.I appreciate you, man. Thanks for having me. When I hear third generation, 100-plus year American heritage company, all I could think about are the parties your family must throw. What is a typical soiree like in the Bomar extended family?Well, we're in New Orleans. Partying and food and culture is right in our wheelhouse. Right off the bat. Being born into a food family on one side, and also on the other side—my mother's side of the family is in the restaurant industry. So parties and birthdays and Christmas is just like a come one, come all extravaganza wherever we go.What's the music and food situation like?It's funk, jazz, you got crawfish boils, crab boils, your Cajun boudin and stuff like that. But then you get the upscale, like white tablecloth service at like Commander's and Herbsaint and those places too, where it just—you can't have a bad time here.You were literally born into this. The legend goes that your grandma gave you your nickname, Pepper, while you were still in the womb.Too many Albans running around. She was just done with it. I am named after my grandfather and my father, but I've been going by Pepper since the womb, and that's the only name that I've ever been called. Unless I'm at the DMV.What's it like to be born into this destiny, this responsibility of taking the mantle of your family's heritage and legacy?A lot of personal pride comes with it for sure. My name is Pepper. I'm a walking billboard. I wear it on my sleeve. It's part of my identity. It's part of my family. So I really take that to heart when we ever have people compliment all of our products, that's phenomenal. But even when people say hey, like we wish you kind of did something here better, I take that to heart. And I really go back to the team and be like okay, well this didn't taste well, so what do we need to fix that? How do we improve on that? Because not only do we do our Crystal-branded products, we also do a lot of private label business for customers around the world. So we do a lot of cutting, and they'll be like hey, this is great but we would rather more heat-forward or citrus-forward or however you want to do it. And then we really try and get to the customer exactly what they want.I imagine that customer relationships and those personal connections all over the world leaves you with a very full dance card. What is your approach to being a guest at someone else's party or what is your approach to being an ambassador out in the world?Being a guest at someone else's party, forgive me, but you can't show up ass and face. You always gotta show up with at least a bottle of wine or some sort of thank you to the host. I'm very proud of where I'm from, New Orleans—especially being a junior in high school when Katrina hit. That galvanized everybody in my generation from here. We're here to stay. We wear that New Orleans bandana wherever we go, like a badge of honor. Everybody wants to come down here for Jazz Fest. Everybody wants to come down here for Mardi Gras. Now, granted, those things are great too, but you can come down to the city anytime and have a phenomenal time.What I've always loved about New Orleans and big families from New Orleans is this hospitality that runs through your veins, that you just get a sense of when you show up, you know that you're going to have a good time and be taken care of. Which is why I'm so excited to talk to you today about your five rules of Southern hospitality.Now, coming from the Northeast, it was a while before I had a chance to really experience Southern hospitality for the first time. And when I did—not saying the Northeast doesn't take care of you—but it's a completely different approach. I remember going to my first wedding below the Mason Dixon. And I would say that your very first rule ties into my experience there. What's your first rule of Southern hospitality?My first rule is a warm welcome, preferably with a cocktail. Hospitality is in the blood. My mom's family is the Brennan family. So we have a lot of restaurants in our wheelhouse. We have Christmas parties. We host Mardi Gras parties. We have all that set up for people. That's not a normal occurrence. Most people don't kind of come into a household like that. And we live a block off the parade route. You walk in and it's just open bar, open food, come one, come all. There's nothing that you can't do. It gets a little rowdy from when we were in college to when my younger cousins were in college. But now we've all kind of grown up, and the amount of bicycles that used to go to the house are now been exchanged for baby strollers.I love it.It's fun to see how it's come full circle. I grew up going to my aunt and uncle's house when I was my kid's age. And for me, trying to bring it back, and they're coming at this time—same house, same corner—kind of surreal. That is really kind of getting back to that. Going back to the very first thing of my first rule, you always got to be the most welcoming host that you can be. When you host and agree to host, it is a responsibility.Yeah. I mean, you can relax, but you can't take your eye off the ball.Correct.What's your rule number two?The food hot and the drinks cold, man. It's tried and true. You can't go wrong when there's cold drinks flowing, preferably being served to you. And staying with the food—what's the best tasting sandwich that you can have? A sandwich made by somebody else. Those are always the best things to do. There's no worry. You're there. Everything's taken care of for you. The hassle-freeness is one of the best things that you can get from Southern hospitality parties.Wow. When you're having these big Southern hospitality parties, especially when your family is such a big part of the community and has restaurants—not everyone who's going to come to the party is someone that you know, or might even be one or two degrees of someone you know.Yeah.But that's all right because of your rule number three.You got to make everybody feel like family. To your point, if I have a friend who brings a friend, we don't balk at that. Come one, come all. As long as you're at my house, you're going to have a great time. I'm going to make sure you're having a great time. But also, I'm going to engage with you—kind of know who you are if I don't know you.I love that.What brought you here? At the end of the day, we want people to have a great time and want to keep coming back. We always have to have our best dress on, if that makes sense.Absolutely.You want them to see all the positives that goes on in the city and in the community. It gets them wanting to come back to New Orleans. This is kind of our bread and butter. We have to kind of get people to keep on coming back and coming back and wanting to come back.Food and hospitality are two of the biggest draws in New Orleans, but there is a third that everyone loves. What's your rule number four?Music and vibe, man. It's got to keep the party going. Mardi Gras, you always have your Mardi Gras music with The Meters and Dr. John, and then with Jazz Fest, it's always Trombone Shorty, Kermit Ruffins. There's kind of themes to it, but the cool thing about New Orleans is how easily accessible the music scene is here. Everybody knows New Orleans is known for music. It doesn't get the hype that Nashville, or country row, gets. I think a lot of people underestimate how culturally impactful New Orleans music is.You and I are the same age of like rap. New Orleans put Southern rap on the map. And then Dave Matthews Band, even though he's not from here, he's from South Africa, he has a lot of New Orleans influence on all of his music. And Jon Batiste is a New Orleans musician who's up in New York all the time. And he's living up there. He went to Juilliard. New Orleans has a very big stranglehold on the music scene around the world that I don't think it gets as much credit as it is deserved.You can take it for granted, right? The good food, the good music, and the good vibes. But it does take a bit of an arc to host.100%. You got to make sure that you have a little bit of something for everybody. If it was up to me, it'd be rap all day. But no, you got to sprinkle in some funk. You got to sprinkle in some 70s. You got to sprinkle in some country every now and then. Just like New Orleans, the big melting pot. So whenever you come over to a house party or a Mardi Gras party or for Christmas, it's always some sort of hot food, cold drinks, great music. It's very hard to mess up.You know, at the end of the night, or I guess in New Orleans, the early gray light of dawn, and the drinks have been quaffed and the music is starting to peter out—there can be a little bit of a sadness of the party ending. But your rule five suggests this to make sure that the Southern hospitality continues on even after the last guest has left.You just got to end on a high note. You want to make them wanting to come back for more whenever they leave. If you follow the first four rules of what I talked about earlier today, then rule five is pretty much serendipitous. It's there.I love that.They're already talking about, God damn, I can't wait to come back to have this party here. Or I can't wait to come back to the city. Or I can't wait to come back to Jazz Festival. I can't wait to come back to Mardi Gras. They've made a memory that they're going to hold on to forever. And they keep on wanting to come back for more.Well, Pepper, I cannot thank you enough for sharing your rules. If people want to get some Crystal Hot Sauce or see what projects you're working on or just follow along with your adventures, where can they go?So for website and merch, you can go to crystalhotsauce.com. For social media, it's just the official Crystal Hot Sauce.Congratulations. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting down to New Orleans, enjoying some of your Southern hospitality.The door's always open. Come on.Thanks, Pepper.Appreciate you, man. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I’m joined by the one and only Dana Cowin—former Food & Wine editor-in-chief, zine creator, podcast host, and party-throwing legend—for a conversation on how to entertain with joy and intention. Dana shares her Five Rules for Throwing a Sustainable Party, from the power of the potluck to the importance of local beeswax candles, and saying no to the disposable single-use platter. We talk about rethinking leftovers as party favors, the ethics of bodega bouquets, and how to host with less waste and more meaning. This one’s for anyone looking to throw a party that feels good and does good for the environment. Photo By Morgan FoitleEditorial Note, Updated 7.31.25: Dana left Food & Wine in 2016, not 1996.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.(00:00:00):Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.(00:00:02):I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.(00:00:03):Today, I am joined by food and media legend, Dana Cowin.(00:00:07):For over 20 years,(00:00:09):she was the editor-in-chief at Food & Wine Magazine until she struck out on her own(00:00:14):creative culinary journey,(00:00:16):launching such incredible zines like Speaking Broadly and her new podcast and event(00:00:21):series,(00:00:21):Progressive Hedonist.(00:00:23):She joins me today to share her five rules for throwing a sustainable party.(00:00:26):We chat about taking the pressure off yourself as a host by asking your guests to(00:00:31):pitch in for a potluck,(00:00:33):how to source locally grown flowers to make the perfect details for your setting,(00:00:39):and how to make sure that no food goes to waste.(00:00:42):It is a delicious, fun, and educational conversation.(00:00:46):So let's get into the rules.(00:00:50):Dana, so good to see you.(00:00:52):Always a pleasure when we can make time to sit down and chat.(00:00:55):So happy to see you.(00:00:56):With such an illustrious career in food,(00:00:59):especially from an editorial perspective,(00:01:01):have you been able to spot the difference between a trend or fat in cooking versus(00:01:06):something that becomes more permanent?(00:01:08):I gave up my trend spotting.(00:01:11):I started in print, so Legacy Media, in 1982.(00:01:16):And all I focused on for the next three decades was what is the trend?(00:01:21):What are people talking about?(00:01:23):When I left Food & Wine, which was in 1996, I was like, I'm done with that.(00:01:28):I'm not interested.(00:01:30):I don't care.(00:01:31):The trends, they do come and go.(00:01:33):Some are longer, some are shorter.(00:01:34):But at the end of the day,(00:01:35):they actually distract from some of the bigger questions that we should be asking(00:01:40):ourselves about the food that we're eating and the people we're supporting and the(00:01:44):way that we're living on this planet.(00:01:46):The biggest trend that I see right now is people looking to find a more restorative way of life.(00:01:53):I have to imagine,(00:01:54):given all that time looking at recipes and looking at different dishes and what(00:01:58):people want to cook,(00:01:59):when you're throwing a dinner party,(00:02:01):how do you select from your deep arsenal of dishes what to cook when you have(00:02:06):people over?(00:02:06):This is funny, Darin.(00:02:07):You're making all these assumptions.(00:02:09):You know that I wrote a cookbook.(00:02:10):I know.(00:02:10):I'm mastering my mistakes in the kitchen.(00:02:12):So I'm not a cook.(00:02:13):I didn't come to this world as a cook.(00:02:16):And I had 20 years of tasting the best food in the test kitchen every single day(00:02:22):saying,(00:02:23):this is incredible.(00:02:24):Am I going to make it at home?(00:02:25):I'm not so sure.(00:02:26):The greatest irony is that for those 20 years, I cooked not at all.(00:02:34):Being in the test kitchen every day,(00:02:35):I learned a lot of tricks,(00:02:37):shortcuts to flavor,(00:02:39):better ways to shop.(00:02:40):Crispier potatoes.(00:02:41):Oh my God, the smashed potatoes.(00:02:43):Absolutely.(00:02:43):These things when you're in the kitchen, you're like, wait, how did you do that?(00:02:47):So I learned a lot of technique.(00:02:49):I learned about all kinds of ingredients that I'd never heard of before.(00:02:53):It was super exciting.(00:02:55):Since leaving Food & Wine, I've cooked so much more.(00:02:59):Taking the technique and the ingredients and the enthusiasm and all the ideas that(00:03:03):are in the back of my mind,(00:03:05):that's what's stored.(00:03:06):Just all these ideas, but not the recipes themselves.(00:03:09):It has made it really fun, and I am a much better cook.(00:03:12):And it feels very ironic to me with Progressive Hedonist,(00:03:17):I host and co-host events all over the country and a lot of them at home.(00:03:21):And I do so much cooking for people because I ask other people to bring dishes that(00:03:26):regenerate themselves and regenerate the planet.(00:03:28):And I have to find my own set of dishes that match that.(00:03:32):I think it's really important,(00:03:33):especially when you're having people over,(00:03:35):to be conscious of what you're buying and what you're working with and not having(00:03:39):more food in your trash can than on your plate at the end of the day.(00:03:43):And that's why I'm excited to be chatting with you about your five rules for(00:03:47):throwing a sustainable party.(00:03:49):We've all had a party where sometimes we put all the pressure on ourselves,(00:03:53):but your first rule gives a little grace to the host of a party.(00:03:56):What is it?(00:03:57):make it a potluck.(00:03:58):If you take on the responsibility of cooking for whatever number of people it is,(00:04:02):it can be very stressful.(00:04:03):Inviting people in to cook with you,(00:04:06):to bring ingredients,(00:04:07):to bring complete dishes,(00:04:08):I have found it's such a delight,(00:04:11):not just because it's less stressful,(00:04:13):but people cook things that I've never tried before.(00:04:16):I used to have a test kitchen that expanded my horizons.(00:04:19):And now with potlucks, I have a way to expand my horizons and try new things.(00:04:24):Of course, restaurants as well.(00:04:25):But in terms of home cooking,(00:04:27):I did a congee potluck and seeing all the toppings that people brought and the(00:04:32):different chili oils and the little fishes,(00:04:35):and it was completely delicious.(00:04:38):and something I would have never done myself.(00:04:40):It builds that sense of everybody in this together because everyone has brought(00:04:45):something to the table and gives everybody something to talk about.(00:04:48):Lastly, and this is important to me because I now host quite a bit, it saves you money.(00:04:53):Yes.(00:04:53):Because if I had to pay to feed 20 people twice a month,(00:04:57):that's exorbitant,(00:04:58):but much less so if you're making a couple of dishes out of everything that's on(00:05:03):the table.(00:05:03):My second fear when we're having a big party,(00:05:06):when I'm hosting,(00:05:07):number one,(00:05:08):running out of food.(00:05:09):Total Shonda.(00:05:09):I really identify with that.(00:05:11):I am always worried.(00:05:12):I always overcook.(00:05:13):But my second one, I don't have enough serviceware or the right plates.(00:05:17):New Year's Eve last year found me running to Sur La Tabla to get two white serving(00:05:22):platters because I just couldn't do it.(00:05:24):One more New Year's with the wrong platters.(00:05:26):But rule two advises against this.(00:05:29):What is your rule number two?(00:05:30):I am wagging a virtual finger at you.(00:05:32):I know.(00:05:33):I believe that we should avoid buying new things when we're entertaining.(00:05:38):And particularly in the area of service wear.(00:05:42):So that would be beautiful platters or forks and knives, even napkins.(00:05:47):I avoid things that are both disposable and new.(00:05:50):You probably have something that will suffice.(00:05:53):And will people leave your party saying,(00:05:55):oh my God,(00:05:56):did you see that platter under the chicken wings?(00:06:01):Actually, no one's going to say that.(00:06:02):No.(00:06:03):People seem to leave a lot of platters here.(00:06:05):So my platter collection has grown.(00:06:07):There's a couple of reasons that I believe this.(00:06:10):I believe that it's best to use what we have.(00:06:13):I believe that if you buy things that are paper and plastic that are single use,(00:06:18):you're doing a disservice to the experience because eating off of paper and with(00:06:23):plastic is not very satisfying.(00:06:25):And also it ends up in the trash.(00:06:28):And the other thing is I now have enough plates and there was a time when I was buying them.(00:06:34):So at some point you have to buy them.(00:06:35):I'm just saying, try not to get the one off and then borrow.(00:06:38):Many a friend has gotten a last minute, oh my gosh, I just realized that I do not have a(00:06:42):cutting board that's big enough for this gigantic ham.(00:06:45):Could you rescue me?(00:06:46):We've all been there.(00:06:47):So instead of going and buying one,(00:06:49):someone comes over,(00:06:50):hopefully on time with a gigantic cutting board.(00:06:53):While a cutting board in need is a great thing to ask a friend for,(00:06:58):rule three deals with something that people usually bring,(00:07:02):but never really give a thought of where they come from.(00:07:04):People who want to be good dinner guests often bring one of two things.(00:07:08):Wine, which is great as far as I'm concerned.(00:07:11):Fantastic.(00:07:12):And the second is flowers.(00:07:14):And I abhor cut flowers that are from the local bodega because those flowers are(00:07:21):part of the international flower trade,(00:07:24):which runs on bad labor practices.(00:07:27):Mm-hmm.(00:07:27):Bad growing practices use a lot of water and then energy for transportation from(00:07:33):very far away places.(00:07:35):So I see someone walk in with a bouquet and my mouth smiles and my heart drop.(00:07:41):I do believe in having flowers at home though.(00:07:45):And I really love supporting local flower growers.(00:07:49):At my place upstate, there's Piecemeal Farm run by Olivia Rabbit.(00:07:54):Her flowers are beautiful.(00:07:55):She has experimented with zinnias of every(00:07:58):color and size and the variety that you can get when you're getting flowers from(00:08:03):someone who's really experimenting and taking care of the land and investing in the(00:08:08):biodiversity and avoiding the monoculture.(00:08:10):And I also believe in plants and herbs and other things that are living and still(00:08:16):have their roots attached to them.(00:08:18):We've been trained somehow that flowers should be stems.(00:08:21):Yeah.(00:08:21):But if what you're really looking for is a spot of green or something that's a(00:08:25):visual relief or something that's in a pot that still has its roots that can live(00:08:30):on after the event,(00:08:31):I find such a great alternative.(00:08:33):After I've gotten older,(00:08:34):I do feel that hosting without some sort of floral or plant,(00:08:37):you don't have a complete party.(00:08:39):I've also realized how important lighting is, which ties into rule number four.(00:08:43):Lighting is so important and I entertain with my husband.(00:08:47):who really, really likes a lot of light.(00:08:51):So he'll walk in a room and it's dusk and night is falling and he'll flip on every(00:08:56):light,(00:08:56):which I find excruciating.(00:08:59):The rooms are prepared with candles.(00:09:02):And I put candles of different heights all around the rooms.(00:09:06):Tea lights, as well as tapers and tapers of different sizes in different holders.(00:09:11):What's very important to me is that the tapers themselves are beeswax and not paraffin.(00:09:16):The reason for that is that paraffin is a petroleum product.(00:09:20):As it burns, it's releasing toxic chemicals.(00:09:23):Whereas a beeswax candle,(00:09:26):it does release a very gentle aroma,(00:09:28):but I find it to be really sumptuous.(00:09:30):It's soothing.(00:09:31):I'd never had thought of candles as local before,(00:09:35):but just like flowers and just like ingredients,(00:09:38):there are local candle makers because there's local bees.(00:09:42):Having the right couple of candles and lighting placed at a party makes all the difference.(00:09:47):Candles are very romantic.(00:09:48):Well,(00:09:48):listen,(00:09:49):dinner party's over,(00:09:50):candles have melted,(00:09:51):but there's still a ton of food left over.(00:09:54):I have gotten into the same habit as you rule number five because I know that I(00:09:58):don't want anything to go to waste,(00:10:00):but I can't eat it all.(00:10:01):What's your fifth rule?(00:10:01):My fifth rule is to ask guests(00:10:04):to bring glass containers to take home leftovers.(00:10:08):And for people who forget, I have containers at home for them.(00:10:12):Yes.(00:10:12):I love having just a little bit of food left in my fridge.(00:10:16):Same.(00:10:17):So you don't have to cook the next day.(00:10:18):Exactly.(00:10:19):So I don't have to cook the next day.(00:10:20):But I also love giving people a taste of something to take home that they didn't make.(00:10:27):One of our last parties,(00:10:28):someone had showed up late and unbeknownst to us put a squash that they grow in(00:10:33):their garden and goat cheese galette in our fridge.(00:10:36):And we had given away all of the food.(00:10:38):There was no leftovers.(00:10:39):The next morning when it came lunchtime,(00:10:41):I was like,(00:10:41):I don't want to cook and open the fridge and it was gorgeous,(00:10:44):perfect summertime dish.(00:10:46):And I was like, this is why you have dinner parties.(00:10:48):That sounds amazing.(00:10:49):It's true.(00:10:50):At my last dinner party, which was two days ago, I had a butter sommelier come.(00:10:55):I'm here for it.(00:10:56):She brought butter from Australia, New Zealand, Greece, France, Pennsylvania.(00:11:01):She whipped her own butter.(00:11:03):She made a butter with raisins soaked in maker's mark when cut into coins and chilled.(00:11:09):It's like a Japanese bar snack.(00:11:11):And she made bournoisette.(00:11:13):When I opened my refrigerator the next day, there was this butter bonanza.(00:11:18):Exactly.(00:11:19):I was like, this is the best leftovers.(00:11:21):And these are going to be leftover and in this fridge for quite some time.(00:11:24):Dana, it is always a pleasure to sit down and chat.(00:11:28):Thank you for sharing your rules.(00:11:29):If people want to follow what you're up to or who you have coming up on the(00:11:34):Progressive Hedonist,(00:11:35):where can they go?(00:11:36):If you follow me on Instagram at Progressive Hedonist,(00:11:39):that's the best place to find all the information.(00:11:42):You can also go to ProgressiveHedonist.com and listen to the podcast.(00:11:46):Dana, it's so great to see you.(00:11:48):Hope to see you soon.(00:11:49):Great to see you.(00:11:49):Hope to see you soon.(00:12:46):Take care. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

From ripping it up on stage with Orchid to slinging cocktails at one of Canada's top bars, Jayson Green has built a life around making things that matter. On this week’s episode, the musician, bartender, and creative lifer shares his hard-earned Five Rules For Making Stuff. We talk about knowing what not to do, why money should never be your motivator, and how letting your skills catch up to your taste is part of the process. Whether you’re starting a band, opening a bar, or just trying to get that project off the ground, this episode is your DIY pep talk.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.[00:00:00] Darin Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I'm excited to be joined by one of my favorite buds from Brooklyn, Jayon Green, who is the infamous. Frontman for the legendary hardcore band Orchid. He has gone on to front other projects like Cheeseburger and his current solo endeavor, Jayon Green and the Jerk currently has a delicious 12 inch out on DFA records. Most recently, his Toronto based bar, Doc's Green Door Lounge, was named the 15th best bar in all of Canada. He joins me today to share his five rules about making stuff. We talk about having a point of view, the importance of continuing to create, and his guiding principle of what should never be your main motivator. Let's get into the rules. Jayon, so great to see you. Always nice when two ex Brooklynites can chat coming from different parts of the world. Congratulations on your bar, Dock Stream Door Lounge, being named number 15th best bar in all of Canada. Thank you. Not surprised knowing who you are and what we're going to talk about today, but congratulations nonetheless.[00:01:08] Jayson Surprised. I didn't even know that these lists existed when we were starting off with the bar. The main thing is we're in this neighborhood in Toronto called The Junction, which is pretty far west, and my whole thing was kind of serving the neighborhood as best I could with a place that I wanted to go to. There was a real hunger for something like this to be here, and I'm very happy that people have responded so positively. The neighborhood's really, supportive and the city at large has been super supportive.[00:01:32] Darin Most people who move to a new country, like you did, would look at the surrounding neighborhood, wish they want a bar and hope someone else would make that for them. But what I've always enjoyed about you and our conversations over the year is that creativity and creating something has always been a part of your life, whether it's fronting a band or developing TV shows, starting a bar, why are you making stuff so important to you?[00:01:55] Jayson That's all I've ever known. Went to college, I wanted to be a film director, and then I ended up joining this band, Orchid, and we were playing shows and touring every break, and I ended leaving school. And then I was off on this trajectory. The only thing I was doing was singing in this mildly popular hardcore band. Give yourself credit. No, no, back then, when we were doing it, it was a mildly-popular hardcore band, and then, I was just in the world. That band ended, I was in another band with our mutual friend Justin Cherno called Panthers. That band ending and then I looked up, I had no discernible skills. I was just in bands and so this creative life had sustained me for so long. I was kind of thrown into the fire, like this is the way you create the opportunity yourself that's not really presented to you.[00:02:37] Darin Creating that opportunity, or even knowing that you can create something, is rarer than I expected. Because I come from a similar DIY background as you, it just was intuitive that if you want something and it's not out there, then create it for yourself. How has that fueled everything you've done, starting with being in a hardcore band from now opening a bar?[00:02:58] Jayson So much of it is you don't know that it's unusual. When I was in college, we were booking the shows. If a band was touring through town, we'd put them up at our college or we'd play at a local VFW hall or whatever it was. And then I moved to New York and I had never even really set foot in Brooklyn before and I moved into this loft in Dumbo and I was like, well, I guess I'll just do it at this loft too, cause it's big enough.[00:03:17] Darin All time.[00:03:18] Jayson You don't know that you're not supposed to do that. I mean, there's lots of failures that come along with that, but the arrogance of youth is such a big part of it too, is you just really think you're smarter and more capable than you probably actually are. And that comes with that as something that's sort of beautiful, is that you are able to accomplish a lot of things that probably as an adult, you might be more fearful to try.[00:03:38] Darin Yes. And I think not knowing what you can and can't do is a big part of getting things done. Yeah. But what I wish I had when I was a little bit younger are some guiding points of when I wanted to make stuff, which is why I'm happy to be talking with you today, because you're going to share with us your five rules for making stuff. And again, band, art project, award-winning bar, children, family, whatever you want to apply it to. I have found that making stuff does start from a couple of core principles. What is your first rule?[00:04:08] Jayson Know what you don't want to do. That's always been a big one for me. And I think it comes from coming from a punk rock, hardcore background. You see things you don't like more than you see things like.[00:04:21] Darin Oh yeah.[00:04:21] Jayson You kind of set things up where you're creating a framework standing against something. I am not willing to cross this line. I won't do this. I won't that and then kind of build it backwards. I find that to be a very helpful way to think about things. And it also avoids the issue of compromise. If you're from the get go saying, say, for example, with the bar, I'm not putting TVs in this place. We're not showing sports. That's one rule right off the top. And then if it comes up later, be like, no, that's a thing I won't do. I won't compromise on it. And this served me for the Orchid Reunions, for building the bar out, saying things that you aren't willing to do, or you find to be corny or not worthwhile, I think is a really great way to get things started in the creative process.[00:05:05] Darin I agree. And I think that rule number two is the other side of the coin. What's rule number[00:05:11] Jayson Rule number two is have a point of view. That's kind of the biggest for me. So much of creating anything is being authentic to yourself. It's about being true to your passions and things that you're interested in. And no matter how niche that thing may seem to be, if you're passionate about it, there's probably somebody else who will feel passionate about that same thing as well. People respond to authenticity as opposed to reaching for something that you think people will like, but it isn't coming really from who you are.[00:05:40] Darin I've always subscribed to the theory of a thousand true fans more than a broad point of view.[00:05:46] Jayson Think you find people respond to passion. You'll watch a documentary about a guy who makes sushi for a living and you may have no interest in sushi but watching this person's passion it's infectious and you'll find that people will respond to things that maybe they didn't even know that they were interested in if it feels like it's coming from this really passionate authentic place.[00:06:07] Darin One of the things about watching people who are so skilled and so talented is that it does create this internal yearning for you to go out and make something similar, but unfortunately, sometimes you don't have the exact skills to make what you want. What's rule number three.[00:06:22] Jayson You have to let your abilities catch up to your taste. This was a big lesson for me, especially after Orchid, which seemed like a thing that kind of magically fell into place. And the next Project Panthers was really just rode on the back of that, and it seemed to all kind of click together. And then after those things ended, I found myself wandering a bit and wondering and also feeling afraid to put things out into the world.[00:06:47] Darin Hmm[00:06:47] Jayson my inner critic and also the outer critics.[00:06:49] Darin You can just say Brooklyn at the time.[00:06:51] Jayson Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, a mutual friend of ours, who actually helped me design the bar here, Michael Vadino. I was talking to him at a bar once and I was working on something and I showed it to someone, another mutual friend, and they were very critical. They said, don't release this, You'll be embarrassed by this. And then I told Michael that, and he said, don't listen to these people, put it out, keep making work. It's all gonna click together at a certain point. And the things that are failures, no one's gonna remember except for you probably. You know, what's so bad about putting something creative into the world, good or bad? It's about honing your abilities, because all these things are a huge learning curve.[00:07:30] Darin 100%[00:07:31] Jayson And then the problem is I have so many friends that fall into this trap and they ever put anything out because they're so afraid of it not being perfect.[00:07:38] Darin Mhm.[00:07:39] Jayson But it's never gonna be perfect. You have to be okay with this idea that it's not gonna be a perfect, it's gonna be this imperfect thing, and then you're gonna move on to the next imperfect thing and then to the imperfect thing. I just think it's such an important lesson is to just make stuff. Do it. Finish projects. Start something and finish it.[00:07:54] Darin The biggest advice when I talk to people about making something is get started and be consistent and just keep at it. But if the option is to not make something or to make something, it's always going to be the latter. Yeah. But that's why I love having people like Michael in my life and other people, which ties directly into your rule number four.[00:08:13] Jayson This is Big Epping Michael, but surround yourself with people smarter than you and listen to them. So this is a lesson that I think is also incredibly important and I learned from another mutual friend of ours, James Murphy. We were working on a failed television.[00:08:25] Darin I remember when you were working on this.[00:08:27] Jayson And it got very, very far along, and then it did not work out. It was a heartbreaking experience, but one I wouldn't trade. But as we were working on it, we were writing the script together, James and I, and I saw that he had a book by a writer that I really loved called Sam Lipsight. And I said, oh, I love that writer. And he said, well, he's a friend of mine. And I said, well, why don't we have him come and help us out? And James said, you know, this is exactly the right move because the best way to operate, if you're not an expert on something, bring in an expert and then listen to what they say to you, the way you should look at all of these things as if you are a film director, you have the vision and then you have these different departments, it's always collaborative, it is bringing people in who are very good at their job and taking their advice and getting out of their way. At the bar, I love to drink and I know what I like to drink, what style of cocktails, but I don't know how to make a cocktail. I brought in someone who really was incredible at it and I let him go for it. And I stayed out of his way and you let these people do what they're good at. And you learn a lot from that. To know that you're not the smartest guy in the room is a really important thing. If you think you're the smartest kind of room, you're in a s**t f*****g room. That's probably the truth.[00:09:33] Darin Sometimes people don't want to share the credit. Yeah. Sometimes there isn't enough budget, or you think there's not enough budget or enough to share down the road. But I think that actually ties into rule number five.[00:09:43] Jayson This kind of ties it all together for me and all the rules fall underneath it is money shouldn't ever be a motivator for anything you work.[00:09:49] Darin Mm-hmm[00:09:50] Jayson The unfortunate truth is that we live in capitalism. There's no way around it. It's like asking a fish, why are you talking about water all the time? I mean, we're in it. So you have to exist in the system, but to use that as your end goal is a death knell. Need to think about making art for the sake of the art itself. If you're thinking about, if I do it this way, this is gonna make me money. You're gonna come out with something that no one likes. You won't even like it. Or even worse than that is something everyone likes. Think about movies that get 100% of Rotten Tomatoes. It has to appeal to everyone, and who wants that? What is the point of that? Those things shouldn't exist in the world.[00:10:26] Darin As far as I'm concerned. And all the projects I've ever loved, it's very clear that money wasn't at the start of it. And those were lucky enough to stay at it and a million other things that fell into place. Eventually made money off the art that they created.[00:10:38] Jayson And that's the thing is you surround yourself with smart, talented people. You make something that you really care about. You're going to find an audience.[00:10:45] Darin Jayon, I cannot thank you enough. If people want to visit the bar or listen to any of your bands, where can they go?[00:10:51] Jayson The bar is called Doc's Green Door Lounge. It is in the West End of Toronto. It's at 3106 Dundas Street West, and we're open all day, we're a cafe. We've got a wine shop in the back, we've got cocktails, and if you want to listen to my music, everything's on digital. I have a 12-inch that came out on DFA called Jayon Green and the Jerks. It's a lot of the LCD people, and Orchid has been playing some shows, and we may play a few more coming up.[00:11:17] Darin Well, hopefully I'll get to see you in Los Angeles sooner than later. Jayon, congrats on everything. Thank you very much, Darin. It's good to see. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

I sit down with Jenny Goodman and Alex McCrery, the co-founders of TILIT and the creators of The Utility Show, to talk about what it means to build something that didn’t exist before. We dig into how they’ve redefined chef wear, what makes a trade show worth showing up for, and how they stay grounded in community while continuing to grow. Their five rules cover everything from designing with purpose to staying focused, and why authenticity isn’t a buzzword, it’s the baseline. If you’ve ever wanted to start something new, rethink how you connect with your audience, or want to know what it takes to create with intention, this episode’s for you.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.(0:00 - 3:04)Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today I am joined by two industry innovators who have changed the way we think about chefware and culinary conferences. I sit down with Jenny Goodman, the CEO and co-founder of Tillet, and Alex McCreary, the CCO, co-founder of Tillet. They're also the two brains behind the Utility Conference, an independent-minded alternative to some of the larger, more corporate conferences that restaurant world has come to know. We chat about their design process, how they stay true to their original vision, and how they keep grounded and their focus clear so they can build bigger things for the community that loves them. Let's get into the rules. Jenny and Alex, thank you for taking the time to sit down to chat with me. Have you recovered from this year's very successful Utility Conference? No, like no. Yes, but like in the best possible way. We're still buzzing over here and I'm still catching up on sleep because it is a marathon, not a sprint. As you brought together so many people for this new type of industry conference, what were some of the inspiring things that you saw from other curators in the industry? We're always inspired by the industry and that's why we wanted to bring a lot of different elements under one roof. A lot of conferences that we see are a lot of trade shows in general. It's like we wanted to be the anti-trade show, right? Yes, we're all here for commerce and to connect and to be in community, but the programming should be really freaking awesome. So I think we took a lot of elements from a lot of events that we've just loved over the years and brought them all together. The pitch competition was inspired by us actually winning a grant from Chase 10 years ago. Some of the trends towards healthy living in the industry, I think are super inspiring. And this year we added in a run in the morning where Philips here from Comedore down in Austin came up and led a run. Instead of the old days of having a party, a trade show, and then getting plastered after together, there's these other things that people are doing that are building community while being healthy. And so I think that stuff's really inspiring. It seems that you have brought to life the best type of feedback loop where the inspiration just keeps pushing yourselves and other people forward to build on what's working, to build what's inspiring, and to create new things out of that. One of the biggest keys to success in any business and a relationship, anything, is your ability to listen and absorb and respond. That's one of the keys that has been our business is that we listen to our customer, that we work with our customer, our community. It's more than just a customer. And that's how you grow is you're actually working with people and not just saying, oh, this is what people should be doing, or this is what people should be wearing, or this is how people should be interfacing with our product. We're actually doing it all together. It is easy for someone on the outside to look at what you have built across the board and just go, how did that even get started? So I'm so excited that you are here today to share your five rules for creating things that didn't exist before. The very first rule is a similar starting point of where I begin all of my creative journeys. What's rule number one? Build what you wish existed for yourself. And I think we've done that with utility.(3:04 - 5:45)We showed up at traditional trade shows and didn't see ourselves represented by the folks who were walking the floor or the folks who were also there with us and felt that community and hospitality is so fun. And the way that we all normally come together and gather in a dining room is celebratory and it's all real authentic connections. And that just wasn't happening at the trade shows that were currently taking place. And so we thought there has to be one that we actually want to show up to, that other independent brands want to show up to, and that other independent restaurants want to show up to. So that's where we started with a test case for utility with our preheat back in 2023. And that was such a success and a good proof of concept that for the last two years, we've done a full-blown trade show for independent brands and restaurants, which has been amazing. It's been a beautiful thing to watch grow. I remember the first one. From the very beginning, the idea and the impetus of Tila was that I wanted better, cooler, more functional, more pride-inducing clothing. I was in a position where I had gone from being a chef in a big restaurant with a bunch of other cooks that were all wearing the same goofy outfit to being in someone's house by myself wearing one goofy outfit and just felt really silly, a little bit embarrassed. And some of those things didn't add up to me with what the culture of being a cool chef was. And I just thought that was silly and displaced. If there's a jacket that I think I want, but doesn't exist, then we find a way to make it and it becomes a Tila product. Sometimes that's the best products are the ones that you actually want. Seeing something out in the real world that isn't quite made for your particular use can be inspiring, but also frustrating because then you have to transfer what you like about it into something that works for you. What's rule number two? Rule number two is to design with utility first. It's a Cortana name, Tila comes from the word utility. Obviously, you want amazing, beautiful, aesthetic things, but if it doesn't have a function, then it doesn't really need to exist. And there's plenty of that too out there, s**t that just hangs on your wall. Our goal and our idea is that everything starts with a reason, whether it's a better pair of pants for women in the kitchen because they just don't exist, or a jumpsuit or an apron with moisture wicking and repellent qualities to it, it has to work. It has to stand the test of time. It has to be able to be washed a hundred thousand times because that's what people in the kitchen are doing. And then from there, it's like, yeah, let's do all the other fun things. Let's make it streetwear. Let's make it temporary. Let's make it the baddest thing out there. But if it doesn't work, then you shouldn't even begin messing with all the other pieces of it. And once you start messing with it, and once you start borrowing from different parts of other products or other things that are being created, it can be very hard to hold on to what is your rule number three. Rule number three is be authentic. The big A word.(5:45 - 5:48)The big A word. I know. And it's such a buzzword sometimes.(5:48 - 7:12)I know. I know. I cringe a little bit, but we've been talking about authenticity since we started the company 12 years ago because authentically we needed these products. Alex was a chef. I met him working front of house. We are authentically hospitality people. And when we looked at what was happening in the chef apparel industry and in workwear for chefs, it was not designed by people who worked in restaurants. It was not thought of by people who knew this community. That's really where we come to this lens of authentically knowing and loving this product because we lived and breathed it. And similar with utility and the trade show is the big, large, huge conglomerate trade shows that are out there for the hospitality industry are not run by industry insiders who do know what the day to day struggles are of an independent restaurant or independent brand. When you want to be in community with somebody, it has to start from a place of understanding that community authentically. Coming from inside the world, being both back of house, in front of house, and being authentic to your mission has allowed you to grow your rule number four. Rule number four is build community. From the beginning, that's what we were. Let's hang out with more friends. Let's make more friends. Let's spread the love. Let's share the ideas. And that's exactly what we've done. And I think to Jenny's credit in creating utility, it's all about community. And I think one of the biggest takeaways from this year was how many people, brands, exhibitors, speakers walked away from it feeling that community.(7:13 - 8:33)It's not because we put the word community all over the trade show. It's because they were there and they felt it. That's just such a powerful feeling to say, oh s**t, we accomplished what we set out to do. Obviously, always continue to build and strengthen and grow your community, but to have them recognize that's why it's there. It's not there as the shopping experience or this way to make money as a small business. It's more. When we think about what makes a brand and what makes a defensible brand, it's people buying in because you've created something that makes them feel something. And that's what we believe in our trying to do. It's the same thing when you go to a great restaurant. It's the same thing about great hospitality. You don't necessarily remember every single dish and every single ingredient, but you remember how you felt sat at that table and you had that great meal and you had that delicious food and you had that amazing hospitality experience. And so we as a brand, knowing that our community welcomes us into their dining rooms, feeling that way, it's so important for us to create that community experience for folks too. So they remember how Tillett and Utility made them feel when we were there on their back during a long shift or there to provide some fun during a weekend of intense trade shows. I can only imagine coming out of Utility, coming out of a weekend with so many conversations, the amount of new ideas and inspiration and how you're thinking, we can do this project, we can do that project, we can do this. Which ties directly into rule number five, which I think once you master, you can actually grow even bigger.(8:33 - 8:41)Focus, baby. It's one of our core tenants from day one. I think we've seen it in many iterations and carried it throughout the brand in many ways.(8:41 - 9:26)My first real restaurant gig was my first not quick service slinging tacos gig. Had the word focus tiled into the wall on the kitchen line so that while you were plating up all your dishes, you were deeply focusing. And I think we've carried it through to what we do with Tillett, to what we do with Utility. And it's something you got to keep going back to because you can easily find yourself straying and say, oh, why don't we do this for some ancillary business? And it's like, wait, no, let's bring it back. It finds its way into our branding and our apparel, but it's always in our heads and part of the business. People ask us all the time, why don't you just sell streetwear? Why don't you go after this customer? And I'm always like, because we focus. We're laser focused on our messaging, on our community, on who we're designing product for first and foremost. And if other folks adopt that because these pants are sick, they're really cool. They work great in the kitchen.(9:26 - 9:59)You could also wear them on the street. Great. But for us, our focus is hospitality, chef, community. It's just, that's it. We always have to keep coming back to it. It's really incredible. And you can see the success in your focus and authenticity in the community you've built. It really is an inspiring way for people who want to go out and create their own thing. If people want to order clothing from Tillet or get more information on next year's Utility, where can they go? You can find us on the worldwide web at TilletNYC.com. Follow us at TilletNYC on Instagram and all the channels.(9:59 - 10:14)Al, you want to do Utility? Yeah, UtilityShow.com. Third weekend of May in 2026, mark your calendar because it's going to be even bigger and better. Jenny and Alex, congratulations on everything. Thank you for sitting down with me and sharing your five rules. Thanks, Darin. Thank you, Darin, for having us. Always a pleasure. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Darin is joined by author and content creator Danny Freeman to talk about his new cookbook, Italianish: Modern Twists on Classic Italian Flavors, out August 26. They dive into how his grandma shaped his love for Italian cooking, why tradition is meant to evolve, and what it means to bring creativity into the kitchen without losing its soul. Danny shares his Five Rules for Modernizing Italian food, from changing up formats to embracing shortcuts, and even using an ingredient rarely seen in a nonna’s kitchen. It’s a warm, honest conversation about honoring where you come from while cooking for the life you’re living now. If you’ve ever wanted to shake up a classic red sauce or make a lasagna your own, this one’s for you.A message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles:Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.Un mensaje de la Independent Hospitality Coalition para quienes están siendo afectados por las redadas de ICE en Los Ángeles:Atención dueños de restaurantes: prepárense. Gracias a todos los que han compartido información que nos ha permitido organizarnos.Como si los dueños de restaurantes y trabajadores de hospitalidad no tuvieran ya suficientes preocupaciones. Nuestras cocinas son lo que son gracias a nuestra comunidad inmigrante. ICE está arrancando a personas de nuestra comunidad en nombre de la ley y el orden —pero nosotros conocemos la verdad.La historia recordará este momento.[00:00:00] Darin Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, we are chatting with author and content creator, Danny Freeman, whose new book, Italianish, Modern Twists on Classic Italian Flavors, comes out on August 26th. We have a. Fun conversation about his deep love and deep roots tied to Italian cooking. We talked about how he honors his grandmother's approach in the kitchen, how he's updated some of his favorite dishes for his family and a secret ingredient that you shouldn't be afraid to use when cooking some of your favorite Italian recipes. Let's get into the rules. Danny, it's so nice to meet you. Congratulations on your second book, Italian-ish modern twist on classic Italian flavor. How does book number two feel compared to book number one?[00:00:54] Danny It's exciting. It's very exciting. I would say it was easier in some ways because I had been through it before, but a lot harder in other ways. My first book was really a manual on how to make fresh pasta, which is something I have done a million times. This is a more traditional cookbook in that it's got soup, salad, appetizers, desserts. I was coming up with a hundred plus recipes from scratch and making them all over and over again and testing them, so it was exciting, but it a lot of work.[00:01:20] Darin I have to imagine like any sort of first album you get to pull from a whole lifetime of recipes and stories and experiences. And the second one is usually coming a lot faster and with pretty much all new stuff.[00:01:30] Danny Definitely. I mean, for both books, I pulled a lot from my childhood and food that I ate when I was growing up, but I couldn't reuse stories and recipes in the second book that I used up in the first one.[00:01:40] Darin Whenever I've worked on cooking shows in the past, I had Italian recipes. If we had any sort of variation, people would lose their minds, which I know something that you had to deal with a ton of times, but when you go to Italy, the whole country's variations, how do you handle that type of, let's say viewer and reader feedback?[00:01:58] Danny I get that all the time. I love cooking Italian-American food, but I also like giving it a twist. I mean, the book is called Italian-ish because it's not perfectly traditional. So I get a lot of feedback from people who love that. And then I get lot of from people who are very traditional and think you can never deviate at all from the food that they ate when they were growing up. But honestly, I believe that that's the way we should be eating food. Food should be exciting. It should make it work for your life. So I am very comfortable with people giving me a hard time about some of the things that I make, but I promise I'm never coming to anyone's house and forcing them to cook my way. I'm just offering my take on things.[00:02:32] Darin And there's only so many classic red sauce recipes you can make. And most of those classic ones have been perfected. So you got to try something new. You got to put your own spin on it. Exactly. I love in your videos and in the book and a lot of the stories, how much you incorporate your family, your husband, your kids, and how important it is to cook for them. Why does that matter so much to you to bring your family into your kitchen and to everything you do?[00:02:54] Danny I have a one-year-old and a four-year old. They are... Big inspiration for this book. I really started getting seriously into cooking when my grandmother passed away and my first daughter was born. And I was sort of at this life moment where I was reflecting on a lot of my traditions growing up and food that we ate, but also thinking a lot about, well, what am I gonna pass on to my children and what are the traditions I'm going to make for them? That had such a big impact on my food and the way I cook, drawing from my past, but thinking about how do I make it modern for my kids? How do I bring them in? How do we make it fun for them, how do we expose them to lots of different foods? The cookbook is a lot about taking those flavors that I loved growing up, but trying them in a new way. All of that was floating around in my brain as I was writing this book, and also just trying to get dinner on the table every single night with the kids.[00:03:38] Darin I love taking something that you grew up with, these classic Italian recipes from your grandmother and making them your own. So let's get into your five rules for modernizing Italian food. And the first one is something that I'd like to do for my family. What is your rule one?[00:03:53] Danny Rule one, every tradition is just an innovation that stuck. The food that my grandmother made, that my great grandparents ate, my great great grandparents made, they're just trying to get food on the table, trying to use the ingredients that they had. That's how it was throughout Italy, using fresh ingredients that were available, things that they could get cheaply. It's only over time that we have now said it has to be done exactly this way every single time. Families were trying different things, and then some of those became traditions that we now eat. So I try and keep that in mind now when I'm cooking. All of these things that I'm trying, Some of them may become traditions for my family, even if they haven't been in the past. And I think that people should honor and respect the food that they like, of course, but be open to trying something a different way that works for them, even if it's a little bit different than what they've done before.[00:04:36] Darin I love your approach of adding in new or variations of an ingredient to create your own take on a dish. And another way to do this is to take familiar flavors and change how it's presented. What is rule number two?[00:04:49] Danny Changing the form of a traditional dish can make it feel fresh. I did a lot of this in Italian-ish because this is a trick that I use a lot when I'm cooking for my family. If I think of a great meal that my kids like, like a lasagna, I don't necessarily have time to make that every night. Or as often as I'd like, but you could take it in a new form, the lasagna soup, where you know they're gonna like the flavors, but it's faster, easier. Another favorite of mine from the book is an Orecchiette and broccoli rabe soup with sausage. I love that pasta dish, it's very traditional. And I love to make it as a soup because it can last all week. Very homey in the winter. A lot of times I make salads that are inspired by other dishes. In the cookbook, I have a beef brujole inspired salads. You know you're already gonna like it, because you know you like those flavors, but it feels new and exciting because it's a different format.[00:05:35] Darin While rule number one and rule number two deal with using new ingredients and approaches to modernize Italian cooking, I believe that by truly practicing rule number three, it allows you to push your cooking in an even more modern direction. What is your third rule?[00:05:51] Danny Rule number three, focus on simple, fresh ingredients. Obviously, I did not invent that rule. That's really critical in Italian cooking. Think of something like a caprese salad. It's very simple. Tomato, mozzarella, basil. But if you're using really great tomatoes in summer and fresh basil, that's really all you need. Maybe just a little salt, olive oil, vinegar, you're good to go. When I was writing this book... My family spent a summer in Italy. Love it. And this was my first time in Italy with a baby and a toddler. In the past, my husband and I had gone to nice restaurants. We'd go to wine bars, we'd sit and drink. Obviously it was a little bit different with young kids. And so we were eating a lot more quick meals, street food, bread and cheese. And that really helped me focus on just, all right, we can get really good produce and that can be a meal and we don't need a whole lot else. Just few simple things.[00:06:35] Darin One of the greatest joys about traveling with children is cooking on vacation and no better country than Italy.[00:06:42] Danny Yes, we spent a few days in Genoa.[00:06:44] Darin Hmm[00:06:45] Danny where basil pesto comes from, focaccia comes from. And you could just go down the street and get freshly made pesto and freshly made focacia and have a meal and that's all you really needed.[00:06:53] Darin When you think of Italian food, you think you gotta roll up the sleeves, start with all the raw ingredients, but rule number four helps you save a little bit of time and a little stress in the kitchen.[00:07:03] Danny Rule number four, not everything has to be made from scratch. I am a person who loves to cook and I really became known for making fresh pasta. But if you're cooking on a Wednesday night, you're not making fresh pasta, fresh sauce, grinding your own meat for sausage. You're not doing all of that. I really tried in the book to make the recipes really versatile where you can sub in different ingredients. For example, I have one. It's an appetizer. It's a meatball sub muffin. Got meatballs, sauce, wrapped in the pastry. I say in the books, you can make the dough. I have the recipe for the dough, I had the recipe for the meatballs and the recipe for the sauce. But you can swap out any one or all three of those ingredients for something very quick. So focus on things that you want to make from scratch, but don't be afraid to sub in some other items.[00:07:43] Darin There's never been a better time of artisanal Italian product makers, even in the States, for making great dried pasta and cheeses. I find more in[00:07:51] Danny or even just at the regular supermarket. Better olive oils, better vinegars, better balsamic glaze. You can usually find some good items out there to add to your collection.[00:07:59] Darin Now, speaking of olive oils, this last rule of yours is something that I definitely didn't expect, but it's something you say not to be afraid of. What's rule number five?[00:08:08] Danny Rule number five, this is the one I get the most in trouble for online. It's don't be afraid of butter. Controversial, I'm sure. Controverial. Here in America, we think of olive oil when it comes to Italian food and Italian-American cooking, which is true. I use a lot of olive and whenever I use a little bit of butter in any dish and I post online, people are aghast. Like you cannot use butter, that's not the way it's done. What I have learned after reading a lot of Italian cookbooks and talking with a lot of people in Italy is that... A lot of the olive oil culture comes from southern Italy, where a lot of immigrants came from to the United States. But in northern Italy, where it's closer to Switzerland and France, they're not as afraid of using butter in some dishes or having butter-based dishes. For example, I posted a recipe by a famous Italian chef, Marcella Hazan. She uses butter in her tomato sauce. People were so upset when I posted that, but I read her recipe and she said, this is how my mother made it back in Italy. One of my favorite ways to use butter very easily is after you make pasta, you drain the pasta and you have your sauce. I especially like to do this with like a pesto. Just put in a pad of butter into the pasta. The heat from the pasta will melt to add the sauce. As the butter's melting and the sauce is all coming together, it just helps make the sauce... A little just a touch of cream a little bit silky even though it's Italian food don't be afraid of a little but of butter mixed in there[00:09:23] Darin Danny, congratulations. I know the book is out August 26, but pre-orders are up and available now if people want to pre-order the book, where can they go?[00:09:32] Danny You can get the book anywhere. Books are sold. You can go to Amazon, Barnes& Noble, Target. For preorders, I'm selling signed copies through my local bookstore. The bookstore is called Stanza, and you can get signed copy shipped to you.[00:09:43] Darin Amazing and if people want to see your content because I know that you've already been doing a couple of recipes on Instagram and TikTok from the book which have been fantastic to watch and gets me very excited for it to come out. Where can they go?[00:09:53] Danny You can find me on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube, all at Danny Loves Pasta.[00:09:57] Darin Congratulations and I can't wait to get the hard copy of the book.[00:10:01] Danny Thank you, good talking with you.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Darin sits down with winemaker, designer, and storyteller André Hueston Mack to talk about his Five Rules for Building a Life You Don’t Want to Escape From. From walking away from the corporate grind to finding unexpected inspiration in reruns of Frasier, André shares how betting on himself, mastering his craft, and embracing contradiction have shaped his path. They talk wine, family dinners, legacy, and why telling your story—your way—matters. It's honest, funny, and packed with wisdom for anyone ready to take that first leap. Pour a glass of Maison Noir and press play.Photo by Danielle SimoneA message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles:Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.Un mensaje de la Independent Hospitality Coalition para quienes están siendo afectados por las redadas de ICE en Los Ángeles:Atención dueños de restaurantes: prepárense. Gracias a todos los que han compartido información que nos ha permitido organizarnos.Como si los dueños de restaurantes y trabajadores de hospitalidad no tuvieran ya suficientes preocupaciones. Nuestras cocinas son lo que son gracias a nuestra comunidad inmigrante. ICE está arrancando a personas de nuestra comunidad en nombre de la ley y el orden —pero nosotros conocemos la verdad.La historia recordará este momento.(00:00:00):Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.(00:00:02):I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz.(00:00:04):Today,(00:00:04):I'm joined by Andre Houston Mack,(00:00:06):sommelier at large and winemaker whose Maison Noir wines are some of the best(00:00:11):tasting and best designed wines to come out of America these days.(00:00:16):He shares with us his five rules for building a life you don't want to escape from.(00:00:20):We chat about his proverbial fork in the road when he chose to bet on himself.(00:00:24):how being present at your own family table is just as important,(00:00:29):if not more so than sitting in the boardroom and how tossed salad and scrambled(00:00:34):eggs gave them the confidence to step into the wine world.(00:00:37):Let's get into the rules.(00:00:42):Andre, so great to see you.(00:00:44):First chat of the summer officially.(00:00:47):And I couldn't think of a better person to kick the season off with than you.(00:00:51):Thanks for sitting down.(00:00:51):Thanks for having me, man.(00:00:52):I'm super excited.(00:00:53):Yeah, definitely kind of first day of summer.(00:00:55):I just shipped my family off to Vermont early this morning.(00:00:57):So I have the house to myself and I'm feeling pretty proud and relaxed to have this(00:01:01):conversation.(00:01:02):It can seem like such a simple thing,(00:01:03):getting your family off on summer vacation,(00:01:05):creating this space for you to have this conversation.(00:01:08):But I know that you've worked really hard to get to this point in your life.(00:01:11):And not everyone has a clear delineation of that start of when their life that they(00:01:17):wanted to begins to happen.(00:01:20):But you do because you did what so many people dream about.(00:01:23):You walked away from the corporate world.(00:01:24):What was that moment like?(00:01:26):What was the thing that pushed you over the edge?(00:01:28):I just wasn't fulfilled at work.(00:01:30):I was a licensed stock broker, but we didn't actually give any advice.(00:01:33):This was before the smartphone.(00:01:35):So all we really did was give stock quotes.(00:01:37):And I came from a background of restaurants where you interacted with people all(00:01:41):day long on a 12 hour shift.(00:01:43):wasn't like that there.(00:01:44):And I just realized that this is good, but it's not great.(00:01:48):The moment really came where it was a fork in the road.(00:01:51):Travelers Group bought Citibank.(00:01:53):And at that moment,(00:01:53):they said,(00:01:54):hey,(00:01:54):you're not losing your job,(00:01:55):but you can reapply or you can take severance.(00:01:58):And I had never heard of severance.(00:01:59):I didn't know what that was.(00:02:00):That was the moment where I realized that this is cool and fun,(00:02:03):but I could probably work a little bit harder and make the same amount of money.(00:02:06):But also, even if I made less money,(00:02:08):It was just a thing of feeling in control and feeling fulfilled at the end of the day.(00:02:12):I just felt like a drone in a way and couldn't really have my own personality,(00:02:16):but it was that defining moment.(00:02:17):And that's where I decided that I'm no longer going to do this.(00:02:20):Not to jump ahead,(00:02:21):but you are now a designer,(00:02:23):sommelier,(00:02:23):author,(00:02:24):winemaker,(00:02:25):but you had to start somewhere.(00:02:26):When you left the corporate world,(00:02:28):what was the first role you picked to lay the foundation of the life you wanted?(00:02:32):I ran back to an industry that I had already been in.(00:02:35):All throughout college, I had waited tables in restaurants.(00:02:38):All those things that you just listed,(00:02:39):never in a million years would I ever thought that that's what I was going to do.(00:02:43):Even at that moment, at the fork in the road.(00:02:45):And I had time to dream.(00:02:48):I had time to think about the things that I wanted or to collect my ideas.(00:02:53):At that time, I took the severance and decided.(00:02:55):had basically more time than money, right?(00:02:57):Because I knew that money was going to run out and was trying to think about what do you do now?(00:03:00):That comes exhaustive and I would fall asleep on the sofa.(00:03:03):And when I would wake back up, they would be paying back to back to back episodes of Frasier.(00:03:07):And that was a little bit of an escape.(00:03:09):They just started talking about wine.(00:03:11):Wow.(00:03:11):And I didn't know much about wine.(00:03:13):Before I left to work in finance,(00:03:15):I worked at Red Lobster all throughout college and they had three wines on the wine(00:03:19):list and they were all white Zinfandel.(00:03:21):Right.(00:03:21):So I didn't know anything about wine,(00:03:23):but I was curious and they seemed like they were having fun.(00:03:27):And at this moment,(00:03:28):I was at a pivotal moment in my life and I felt,(00:03:30):well,(00:03:30):if they're drinking wine and having fun,(00:03:31):maybe that will make me happy.(00:03:33):Maybe that will be fun for me.(00:03:34):And by watching that show,(00:03:36):it gave me the courage to walk into a wine shop for the first time in my life.(00:03:39):Because from the outside looking in,(00:03:41):if you don't see anybody that looks like you,(00:03:43):you didn't think it was for you.(00:03:44):I say this all the time.(00:03:45):The greatest foil to pretension is humor.(00:03:48):Somehow it felt like I could arm myself with a comedic antidotes, right?(00:03:51):You know what I mean?(00:03:52):And I got to talk to people.(00:03:53):That initial thing of being afraid or being intimidated went away.(00:03:56):It's amazing to hear you at the start,(00:04:00):at this fork,(00:04:00):that first step into the wine world and to see your success now.(00:04:04):And it's even easier if you're sitting at home and seeing what you're up to on social media.(00:04:09):I think it's a straight path,(00:04:10):but we all know of those who've journeyed on that road that is far from straight,(00:04:14):far from easy.(00:04:15):Correct.(00:04:15):Was there any point,(00:04:17):especially in the early years,(00:04:18):that you questioned your decision to build this life for yourself?(00:04:21):Absolutely.(00:04:22):I still do today.(00:04:24):Sure.(00:04:25):Yeah.(00:04:26):Steve Jobs said, it always feels like a house of cards.(00:04:29):And in some ways it should feel that way, that it could all go away.(00:04:32):That's the driving force of why I work so hard.(00:04:34):So maybe you can take a few steps away every now and then.(00:04:37):It's really good to be able to build and retreat and look at what you put together(00:04:42):and then make adjustments and(00:04:44):And that's why I'm so excited to have you here today.(00:04:46):Yes.(00:04:46):So we can talk about your five rules for building a life you don't want to escape from.(00:04:51):Absolutely.(00:04:51):I want to go back to that very first moment.(00:04:54):Not only does it take that right mindset to walk away from something familiar,(00:04:58):you also need to have this other belief.(00:05:00):What's your rule number one?(00:05:01):Rule number one is bet on yourself, even when no one else will.(00:05:04):Only you know what you're capable of.(00:05:06):Only you know where you want to go.(00:05:08):And you know, I always say eyes on the prize, even the days that you're frustrated.(00:05:12):It's a saying so much that my wife adopted it.(00:05:14):I watched too many movies when I was a young kid.(00:05:16):I always thought that I'm going to work really hard and I'm working at Red Lobster.(00:05:20):I'm putting the sauces on the plate and somebody in the dining room is going to see(00:05:23):you through those double doors.(00:05:25):how hard I'm working.(00:05:26):And they're going to say, hey, kid, and offer me a job and change my life.(00:05:29):And after a few years, I realized that wasn't going to happen.(00:05:32):And the person that was going to come into my life and change my life was going to(00:05:35):have to be me.(00:05:36):That is where it all changed.(00:05:38):You're the one that's in control.(00:05:39):And sometimes you have to do a little juke move, right?(00:05:42):Sometimes you have to do a spin move.(00:05:43):You can't lose that faith that you have in yourself to make it happen for yourself.(00:05:47):Allowing yourself that grace to step left,(00:05:50):to step right,(00:05:51):to give a little juke allows you to grow.(00:05:53):And it also ties directly into rule number two.(00:05:56):Which is make room for contradiction.(00:05:58):It's like this idea of two things can be true at the same time.(00:06:01):I can live with one foot in this world and another foot in this world.(00:06:04):Yeah.(00:06:05):Yeah.(00:06:27):And most people are like, what?(00:06:28):No, I get it.(00:06:29):I respect where I come from in the root.(00:06:31):Being a product of hip hop, it's one of the few genres of music that's aspirational.(00:06:35):And they tell you what to drink.(00:06:36):They tell you what music to listen to.(00:06:38):For me, it was, oh, I can still have that.(00:06:40):When I first moved to New York City,(00:06:41):I had worked at French Laundry,(00:06:42):moved to New York City,(00:06:43):and I was running the beverage department at Per Se.(00:06:45):Every night before inventory, I would drink a 40 ounce.(00:06:48):You can take your craft serious, but I just don't take myself serious.(00:06:52):I like to have fun.(00:06:54):If you're not having fun, then why even do it?(00:06:55):You talk about craft.(00:06:58):And I really think that understanding what you're getting into,(00:07:01):what you're working on,(00:07:02):having that strong foundation allows you to grow.(00:07:05):What's your rule number three?(00:07:06):Rule number three is master your craft and then break all the rules.(00:07:10):And that was it for me.(00:07:11):To forever be a master means to forever be a student.(00:07:15):For me, it was just always, I needed to know all the rules in order to be able to break them.(00:07:20):That's what I found my training was as a sommelier,(00:07:22):working for the best restaurant in the world,(00:07:25):the French Laundry,(00:07:26):and then saying,(00:07:26):hey,(00:07:27):what's happening in New York?(00:07:28):You know, it's one of the most anticipated restaurant openings in New York City history.(00:07:32):I want to be a part of that.(00:07:33):And I took that leap of faith and came here to do that.(00:07:36):I wanted to learn everything about what I did and being a sommelier.(00:07:39):So much so that I think I worked maybe 33,(00:07:42):40 something days in a row when I first got to the French Laundry.(00:07:45):I had this mentality of each day that I worked to be like three days.(00:07:49):A lot of things come from experience.(00:07:50):The more time that you're on the floor and the more time you get work,(00:07:53):the more things happen,(00:07:54):the more things,(00:07:55):how you understand how to react.(00:07:56):I felt like I was behind the...(00:07:58):They ate ball because I started late.(00:07:59):Think about this.(00:08:00):When we're talking about from the time that I was watching episodes of Frasier to(00:08:03):the time that I was the sommelier working the floor at the French Laundry,(00:08:07):it's probably less than 24 months.(00:08:09):Wow.(00:08:10):So three wines on the wine list at Red Lobster that were all white Zinfandel, right?(00:08:14):Yeah.(00:08:14):So that time, less than 24 months, I was the sommelier at the French Laundry.(00:08:18):By putting in that time,(00:08:19):by grinding,(00:08:20):by establishing your foundation,(00:08:22):it builds up this protection around yourself where people can't tell you who you(00:08:26):are or where you're allowed to be.(00:08:28):It allows for you to do this, which is your rule number four.(00:08:31):Rule number four is tell your story before someone else does.(00:08:34):I learned that at the French Laundry.(00:08:35):Great place to learn.(00:08:36):Right.(00:08:36):It was always this thing about controlling your own narrative because guests were going to ask.(00:08:40):And if you didn't have the answers for the guests,(00:08:42):then they were going to make up their own story.(00:08:44):Of course.(00:08:44):And that was it.(00:08:45):I understood how to control the narrative and tell the stories the way that I(00:08:48):wanted to tell them.(00:08:49):And by owning my own narrative gave me power within that.(00:08:52):And I didn't have to wait for others or the gatekeepers to let me in or to pass me(00:08:57):the mic,(00:08:57):so to speak.(00:08:58):I got to tell my own story in the way that I felt that was authentic to me.(00:09:01):And because of that, it was unapologetically me.(00:09:04):I love that.(00:09:04):This is not an act, just me, who I am.(00:09:06):I just get up every single day and get to tell my journey.(00:09:09):By people buying into their narrative,(00:09:11):it's the reason why people follow things,(00:09:13):the reason why people build community around it,(00:09:15):because there's a story that they can relate to.(00:09:17):When people buy into a narrative, into a story, they're buying into you.(00:09:22):Correct.(00:09:23):When people buy into you, they want to be around you, which relates to rule number five.(00:09:27):Yeah, and rule number five is legacy is built at the table.(00:09:30):It's who you invite to that table, who's around you is how you build legacy.(00:09:34):For me, this is everything.(00:09:35):This is why I do everything that I do is the body of work and how you impact at people.(00:09:40):And now that I have a family, that has another meaning to it.(00:09:42):Having dinner at the dinner table with your family.(00:09:44):You know, I'm a father of four boys.(00:09:46):My boys are 16, 14, 9, and 6.(00:09:48):And having family dinner, I feel like that is also where we're building legacy.(00:09:54):100%.(00:09:54):Where we're talking about things and not just all about the lessons that I've(00:09:57):learned in life,(00:09:58):but breaking bread and talking to them about their lives,(00:10:00):asking them what's happening there.(00:10:02):The dining room table at your house is just as important as the boardroom table.(00:10:05):Building that community with your own family is so important.(00:10:09):Correct.(00:10:09):Because sometimes what you do is you get lost in saying, I'm doing it for them.(00:10:12):And the reason why I'm not at the dinner table is because I'm building this life for them.(00:10:16):They deserve just as much as my time as anybody else.(00:10:19):I love the life that you've built.(00:10:20):If people want to follow along with your adventures,(00:10:22):if people want to get your wines or sign up for notifications about your new book(00:10:26):that's coming out,(00:10:27):where can they go?(00:10:28):Just hit me up on IG.(00:10:28):That's kind of like my main line of communication at Andre H. Mack.(00:10:32):My wine company is called Maison Noir Wines.(00:10:33):You can check me out on YouTube.(00:10:35):I'm happy to be able to share these things because I really feel a lot of people(00:10:38):are out there living for the weekend.(00:10:40):And the whole idea is that if you built every day and love what you do,(00:10:43):every day is a weekend and every day is a blessing.(00:10:45):It's living that good life with intent.(00:10:47):Absolutely.(00:10:48):Andre, thank you so much.(00:10:49):Really appreciate you making the time, sharing your rules.(00:10:51):Have a great summer.(00:10:52):Anytime, man.(00:10:52):Thank you.(00:10:53):You too.(00:10:53):Cheers.Thanks for reading Five Rules for the Good Life! This post is public so feel free to share it. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Darin is joined by Katherine Lewin, founder and CEO of Big Night, one of his favorite shops—and one of his biggest sources of dinner party inspiration. She shares her five rules for opening a shop, building community, and creating a brand with purpose. They talk about what it takes to open a physical store, why starting small matters, how storytelling can transform a retail experience, and why the best decisions often come from trusting your gut. If you've ever dreamed of starting your own business or want to host better dinner parties, this one’s for you.A message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles:Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.Un mensaje de la Independent Hospitality Coalition para quienes están siendo afectados por las redadas de ICE en Los Ángeles:Atención dueños de restaurantes: prepárense. Gracias a todos los que han compartido información que nos ha permitido organizarnos.Como si los dueños de restaurantes y trabajadores de hospitalidad no tuvieran ya suficientes preocupaciones. Nuestras cocinas son lo que son gracias a nuestra comunidad inmigrante. ICE está arrancando a personas de nuestra comunidad en nombre de la ley y el orden —pero nosotros conocemos la verdad.La historia recordará este momento.[00:00:00] Darin Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I am joined by one of my favorite small business owners and dinner party inspirations, Katherine Lewin, who's the founder and CEO of Big Night. We chat about her five rules for opening up a shop, how to stay focused, how storytelling is a big part of selling. And at the end of the day, one of the most important things you can do is to trust your gut. Let's get into the rules. Katherine, always a pleasure to see you. Congratulations on the expansion of the original Greenpoint Big Night Shop. How does it feel?[00:00:38] Katherine Feels amazing. I'm coming to you live from our backyard, which was part of the original space, but now feels even more special. The interior is three times the size. We just have room to spread out. It feels great.[00:00:52] Darin I love how humble you're being because you're coming from the backyard because the store is so packed on a Thursday afternoon that you actually can't do the interview in there.[00:00:59] Katherine That's one way to frame it. Darin, that's a reframe that I like. It's all thanks to our customers who are the kind of people who wanna come shop or whatever they might need, whether it's a fancy ingredient or a gift for their sister or a little pick me up on a Thursday afternoon and we love them for it.[00:01:14] Darin You're there to really support the community. How does it feel to become an integral part of your neighborhood?[00:01:21] Katherine There's a lot of rewarding feelings about this job, but I would definitely rank it in the top. No one sets out to make a brick and mortar retail store just to do business. For all of us who open actual physical shop, that sense of community and that sense of creating a place for our people, that is why you do it.[00:01:37] Darin You know, you're almost four years in now to the store.[00:01:40] Katherine Okay.[00:01:40] Darin How does it feel to have gone from the original vision to this expanded version and to see it grow?[00:01:47] Katherine I can't believe it's been four years, first of all. In the beginning, the vision was so, I don't wanna use the word small, but it was really focused because I knew I needed to start small to gain the confidence to execute on this larger vision. And now we've really evolved into a brand that I hope stands for helping people live the good life at home. That's really what I want for people to take away from the shop and the brand and it feels we're making better and better on that promise.[00:02:16] Darin It's amazing and very inspirational. And that's why I'm so excited to be chatting with you today about the beginning because every successful store had to open its doors for the first time. Yes. So I'd love to hear your five rules for opening a shop with the first rule being about being very focused when you first open those doors.[00:02:33] Katherine My rule number one, start small. Be confident in your little corner of the world. And also starting small helps protect you from risk. I didn't know anything about opening a brick and mortar physical store other than I had this weird urge to do it. We were coming off of the worst lockdown part of the pandemic. I was craving IRL experiences, just like everybody else. I also was craving shopping experiences. I was tired of living my life online. And I just had the feeling that physical retail was really going to be something that people would be excited about. A. And B. Dinner parties. I just kept thinking about dinner parties. It was 2020 and everyone was cooking so elaborately, but no one was gathering. I became kind of obsessed with, Wow, dinner parties are gonna feel so amazing when it's safe enough for us to gather at home again. So I thought, what if there was a place where people could get everything they needed for dinner parties? That alone is kind of specific prompt, right? When it stopped becoming just a thought and it started becoming, how do I action on this? Mm-hmm. First thing that comes to mind is what's the space going to be, right? It's a physical store. And when I found my space, I saw it's 240 square foot floor plan. And I thought that size is perfect. Everyone else was like, what, I'm sorry. How many that 240 square feet floor plan? Made me feel like. I might not know all the ins and outs of this and I can stock the shelves. I alone can staff the shop if I need to. It was a bite-sized store and that is what paved the way for me to confidently and intentionally grow because I started from a place where I didn't automatically feel like I was biting off more than I could chew.[00:04:09] Darin And being that size forces you to be very specific, which ties directly into rule number[00:04:15] Katherine My rule number two, know your value proposition. What specific thing or service are you offering? When you're starting out, you have to be able to quickly tell someone, why does this physical space exist? It exists because I want you to have everything you need for a dinner party all in one place. Listen, a lot of people would walk in and say, well, I never have dinner parties, so like is this store not for me? And then it's your job to expand on that and explain. A dinner party could be 10 of you seated for dinner, or a dinner pretty could be you and a friend having a killer pizza that you got from delivery and a great bottle of wine and fancy wineglasses and then it's your version of a big night. Starting from that very specific value prop of a dinner party shop gives you that niche and that specificity really helps people wrap their head around why they should be interested in the concept.[00:05:03] Darin What I've always loved about the concept, everything that Big Night touches, you can feel that it's telling a story, which I've been a big believer in when you're looking for success, is about storytelling. And whether that's a TV show or a cookbook, telling a storytelling is really what's gonna drive you. What's rule number three?[00:05:20] Katherine And rule number three, don't sell, tell. Storytelling is so key to Big Night. When I first opened the store, I literally wrote more product storytelling signage than we had space for on our shelves. Like I could not fit all the signage. I didn't want people to just buy a $38 bottle of olive oil and then get home and be like, why did I spend my $38 on olive oil? I wanted to tell them, here are the makers who made this olive oil in Calabria. Here's how they recommend you enjoy it. Here's how I like to enjoy it, giving people background on these products that makes them feel more connected to that small maker and then also suddenly gives them a new avenue to try an olive oil in a way they haven't before. It's important to me that the store never feels like just a place where transactions happen. People wanna hear about where they're putting their dollars, especially food and personal items on their dinner table are coming from. It's really important to tell those stories to your customers and bring them in on why you as the shop owner or the buyer are so excited about them.[00:06:21] Darin It really helps when you reach for a bottle of wine, even salt, pepper, anything to know who's behind it, because you can't get so disconnected when almost everything you get is either online or at a chain store. So being able to connect with your customers and tell them stories serves such a great purpose. And the other thing I like about you having a physical store is that they also tell you things. So what's rule number four.[00:06:44] Katherine Rule number four, listen to your customers. I like to think my secret weapon of having a physical store is I have a constant 24-7 real-time feedback loop with my customers.[00:06:54] Darin Whether you like it or not.[00:06:55] Katherine Yeah and everybody who works with me in the shop knows it is so important to listen. It is so important when anyone gives any feedback whether the feedback is hey I tried this product and I found this part of it confusing or the feedback, is hey why don't you carry more butter dishes or the feed back is I see a lot of products from Italy but have you seen this olive oil from Portugal? I'm really interested in it and we actually have a slack channel.[00:07:19] Darin Hmm[00:07:20] Katherine If a customer says it out loud and it's about a product, it's going on the Slack channel.[00:07:23] Darin Oh, that's amazing.[00:07:24] Katherine I take that information and I think about it when I'm buying everything. We react to what our customers are telling us and asking us for it. Because at the end of the day, the store is for them, whether it's something that they would like to see reflected on the shelves or it's something that they're really excited about. I want them to feel like every time they come back in, we're hearing them.[00:07:41] Darin I think it's great that you give so much opportunity for the customers to give their feedback. But at the end of the day, there can only be one founder and CEO. What's rule number five?[00:07:51] Katherine Trust and stand behind your gut instincts and intuition. I mean, this is really more of a life rule for me. Something that people don't often realize is just how much you are opening yourself up and really exposing yourself and your business to the world at large when you have a physical place. Your doors are open. Anybody can come in. Anybody can say anything they want to. They could write a Google review. They can write a Yelp review. They can say something in real life that might not sit quite right, or they might give unsolicited advice. We're all human beings. We're all entitled to our opinions. Absolutely. But I think As a business owner and as a business owner whose store reflects my own personal point of view, I do have to remember that at the end of the day, I have to listen to that point of you. And I have balance that with all the different inputs I receive every day from all different places, not just my customers, but really trust that my instinct is there and my heart and soul are in the right place. And so as long as I can align that and reconcile that with what the customer is asking from me, and it feels like I'm being true to both, I'm on the right track.[00:08:53] Darin You can absolutely feel your heart and soul in everything you do with Big Night. Congratulations on the expansion. If people want to visit the store in person, shop online, get the cookbook, where can they go?[00:09:04] Katherine If you're in New York, come by. We have shops in Greenpoint and on the West Village. And if you're not in New york, please stop by our website. You will find it at shopbignight.com. And you can also follow us on Instagram at big night shop.[00:09:18] Darin Catherine, congratulations. I can't wait to come back to Brooklyn to pop into the newly expanded Greenpoint store. I'm sure it's as incredible as it looks online.[00:09:28] Katherine Can't wait to have you, Darin. Thanks so much for having me.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

In this special episode, Darin welcomes Brittney Valles, founding member of the Independent Hospitality Coalition (IHC), for a timely and urgent conversation. With ICE activity increasing in Los Angeles and the National Guard deployed, Brittney outlines the rights every hospitality worker should know during an immigration raid.From how to assert your right to remain silent to using the ILRC Red Card as a tool of protection, this episode is a vital listen for anyone in the industry—or anyone who cares about it. For more resources or to connect with IHC directly, visit their official site or follow them on Instagram at @ihc.la.En este episodio especial, Darin recibe a Brittney Valles, miembro fundadora de la Independent Hospitality Coalition (IHC), para una conversación tan oportuna como urgente. Con el aumento de la actividad de ICE en Los Ángeles y el despliegue de la Guardia Nacional, Brittney explica los derechos que todo trabajador de la hospitalidad debe conocer durante una redada migratoria.Desde cómo ejercer tu derecho a permanecer en silencio hasta cómo usar la Tarjeta Roja del ILRC como herramienta de protección, este episodio es una escucha esencial para cualquiera que trabaje en la industria —o que se preocupe por ella—. Para más recursos o para conectar directamente con IHC, visita su sitio oficial o síguelos en Instagram en @ihc.la.A message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles:Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.Un mensaje de la Independent Hospitality Coalition para quienes están siendo afectados por las redadas de ICE en Los Ángeles:Atención dueños de restaurantes: prepárense. Gracias a todos los que han compartido información que nos ha permitido organizarnos. Como si los dueños de restaurantes y trabajadores de hospitalidad no tuvieran ya suficientes preocupaciones. Nuestras cocinas son lo que son gracias a nuestra comunidad inmigrante. ICE está arrancando a personas de nuestra comunidad en nombre de la ley y el orden —pero nosotros conocemos la verdad.La historia recordará este momento.[00:00:00] Darin Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Given the unfolding events of both ICE and now the National Guard being deployed in Los Angeles, I wanted to invite Brittney Valles and the IHC on for a special episode this week. Brittney is a founding member of the Independent Hospitality Coalition. For those who are unaware of this incredible organization, it is a coalition of Los Angeles hospitality operators, advocates, and workers whose purpose is to provide representation for the city's growing workforce and essential businesses. Their existence and purpose has never been needed more than right now. I wanted to invite Brittney on to share IHC's five individual rights during an ICE raid. There is a lot of great information that I will be linking to in the episode description and if the links aren't available where you're listening to this, please go to 5rules.substack.com slash podcast. In this episode, she shares key information about what to do in those first few moments. When ICE agents arrive at a restaurant where you work, about having the immigrant legal resource centers red card on hand at all times, and the importance of having a professional advocate or lawyer on your side. It's a really important and educational episode, and I feel very lucky that she took the time out of what is surely a busy time for her and the entire organization. So let's get into your rights. Brittney, thank you for taking the time to sit down with me during a very frightening and uncertain time in the LA hospitality scene and Los Angeles at large. I really appreciate it.[00:01:45] Brittney Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.[00:01:47] Darin It's been an extremely disruptive and unsettling week in the city. People can see one thing on the news and it's different what you're seeing being on the ground. Can you share some of the details of what you see?[00:01:58] Brittney Aside from members of our community, as far as kitchen staff and service staff being alarmed and unsure what restaurant or what neighborhood is going to be invaded by ice necks, there's also a lot of fear tactics being put out there by media and our lovely president. And so even if your restaurant isn't really in the line of fire, people aren't coming to LA. Some restaurants are having to reduce hours because their staff is afraid, despite their status. Just because we're seeing things that are unprecedented, where people are getting taken accidentally, despite whether they have a work permit, have permanent residency, it's really, really scary right now. And I think there's so much uncertainty on top of everything that we've been dealing with for the past couple of years in LA, as far as food and beverage.[00:02:47] Darin Seeing restaurants like Lasita and other places having to close or reduce their hours is just one more hardship that they've had to endure after the strikes and the fires and now this.[00:02:57] Brittney So, yeah.[00:02:58] Darin How is the restaurant community being affected at large?[00:03:01] Brittney I've had a lot of people tell me that staff's not coming, and so they have clothes for a day, or there's people who are scared, and so, they're gonna have to figure out alternatives to make them safe or make them comfortable. A lot of conversations are being had. I had a family friend who lives in the Inland Empire tell me she is canceling all her jobs in LA because they have a plumbing company.[00:03:21] Darin You don't want to[00:03:22] Brittney They don't want to send their staff down here. Every person that's not here, it's one ticket. One less person to order food or to purchase a beverage. It's really stressful. Aside from the fact that we have militarized individuals on our street popping tear gas and all that, there's also the economic implications. It's a super stressful situation.[00:03:41] Darin It's really stressful and there's a lot of uncertainty, but despite all that, there has been really quick mobilizations from groups like the IHC and other grassroots organizations. I don't know if hope and inspiration are the right words to use at the time, but what is giving you some positive forward momentum?[00:03:58] Brittney People are really rallying together with this issue, regardless of your politics. I think seeing families being ripped apart in the way that it's happening, it's enough for people to be like, no, no. Not in our city. And so that gives me a lot of hope. And then so many people are willing to donate resources. The Independent Hospitality Coalition is gonna be co-hosting an event next week for restaurant owners, restaurant managers, bar managers. To get more informed, those of us that have, don't feel the fear of our citizenship status are rallying behind those that may, and again, it's not only people that may be undocumented or may not have the correct documents, it is people that just got citizenship, right? Because there's that five-year grace period after citizenship, green card holders. There's so much gray area with how this administration is enforcing what they're enforcing, seeing everybody rallying around this community of immigrants and not just because of what they produce in work, but just because these are members of our community, it's really a beautiful thing to see in stressful time.[00:05:00] Darin Given the administration's promise of 30 days of ICE raids and even today's announcement of the National Guard being here for 60 days, what I found really helpful was your recent post about what people can do to protect themselves. So I'd love to get into the five individual rights during an ICE raid, starting with right number one, which is as simple as not opening the door.[00:05:22] Brittney We're seeing ICE work outside of the boundaries of the law, but this is kind of the best that we can do. Not allowing access is your right. Private areas are not allowed to be searched without a warrant, and judges are not handing out warrants willy-nilly right now. Administrative order is not the same as a signed order by a judge. And so if you have clear signage that this is employees only private area, no access without owner's permission, it's pretty clear that they cannot go into those areas, owners labeling all the private areas, all the safe havens in the restaurant. So if ICE does show up or the National Guard or the Marines or whoever is going to be thrown at us next, there's a place that was dedicated and sealed off for everybody to go and making sure that you have that space and you talk to your staff. OK, I shows up. This is where we're all going. And again, it doesn't matter your document status, just go over there because we don't need to be, oh, who's this and who's that? Everybody needs to just go into the safe place because we're trying to make coffee, we're try to make tacos, whatever it is, we're not trying to deal with federal agents enforcing immigration status.[00:06:26] Darin If these ICE agents don't play by the rules and do come into a private space, what is your second right and how to deal with them?[00:06:34] Brittney Your second right is to remain silent. You don't have to say anything. They cannot force you to say anything. They might use fear tactics that are like, well, we're going to arrest you if you don't say this or we're gonna arrest you. If you don't show us your immigration status, maintain your Fifth Amendment and say nothing because fear tactics and getting people to react off emotion is the biggest card that they have to play. So we just have to take that power away from them and just say nothing.[00:06:59] Darin Speaking of cards to play, right number three deals with something you can hand them if they continue to violate your rights.[00:07:05] Brittney The red card, it is by the Immigrants Legal Resource Center. It is a red card that you can download online in, I think, like 35 different languages or 39 different languages. Even if you don't speak English, it has your rights written out in your language and in English that you just hand to whatever officer that you're dealing with. It's recommended to be printed in bright red paper. That's why it's called the red card. That is available on the ilrc.org website, and you can just hand it to them. If you don't speak English, if you speak Arabic, if you can speak Chinese, if speak Spanish, Farsi, that's within your right to just give them this card that outlines your stance with just to say nothing, not answering any questions, and you are equipped with your knowledge of your constitutional rights, which is insane. That you're having to defend your constitutional rights live on the floor in the city.[00:07:56] Darin They're going to take advantage of you not being able to have a grasp on the English language. They might put a paper in your face and a pen. What's your fourth right?[00:08:03] Brittney Do not sign anything. It's certainly not something without an attorney. There are so many resources. Again, the ILRC, Immigrants Legal Resource Center is a great resource for attorneys that are doing things pro bono in these unprecedented times. Your signature should not end up on any single piece of paper. Pressure and fear tactics is the greatest weapon that ICE has against people that know their rights and are refusing to cooperate. As long as you don't succumb to that pressure, you have more options and more flexibility. It is really a scary time, and we're seeing so much of it live on Instagram and on TikTok, so just not allowing the emotions of it all to make you make decisions that are against your best interest.[00:08:45] Darin The pressure of time and the pressure of being forced to do something on someone else's timeline can be really frightening. This last right does take a little extra time to action on. What is your fifth right?[00:08:57] Brittney So it's finding an attorney right now all over social media. There is so many resources. We've put up some resources on the Independent Hospitality Coalition. Find an attorney, find an expert that can help you out of this situation. If your family member has been taken and is brought to a detention center and you believe it's unlawful, then find an attorney. Right away, DM us, DM the ILRC. Just find as many resources as you can. We live in a city of people that are fighting for the right of people to live here and to make a better life for themselves. So there's so many resources around, whether it's for you or for a family member, it's been taken, that's something that should be atop of your list. Don't try to navigate the system alone. Unfortunately, you can't trust the government officials that should really be protecting us. So find your own advocate. [00:09:45] Darin Brittney, I cannot thank you enough for what you and all of the members of the IHC are doing. I found you because of your social posts and you got back to me so quickly. If other people want quick information or to follow up real-time updates or just ask for help, Where can they go?[00:10:01] Brittney They can go to the Immigrant Legal Resource Center. That's ilrc.org. We're not affiliated with them, but it's a great network for resources specific to what is going on. And then the Independent Hospitality Coalition. We are a group of small independent restaurant owners in this city that advocate for what unique needs individually owned restaurants have. So we're not McDonald's and Chuck E. Cheese. We're the best sillas and the broad street oyster companies and the great whites of LA. We are always available. We're real people on the other side. If you're a restaurant owner or a small business owner and you are feeling alone and overwhelmed, do not hesitate to reach out to us. We read all of our DMs and we try to be as present for people and we just want to help. So reach out so that IHC if you're a small entrepreneur and for a little guidance.[00:10:46] Darin I appreciate all the guidance. Thank you for being such a bright light and positive inspiration during these really tough times. Thank you to you and Lisa and to everyone else and good luck and keep fighting the good fight.[00:10:56] Brittney Thanks for giving us a voice and hopefully things will turn around soon.[00:00:00] Darin: Hola y bienvenidos a Five Rules for the Good Life. Soy su anfitrión, Darin Bresnitz. Dados los recientes acontecimientos con ICE y ahora la Guardia Nacional desplegada en Los Ángeles, invité a Brittney Valles y a la IHC para un episodio especial esta semana. Brittney es miembro fundadora de la Independent Hospitality Coalition. Para quienes no conocen esta increíble organización, es una coalición de operadores, defensores y trabajadores de la hostelería de Los Ángeles, cuyo propósito es representar a la creciente fuerza laboral y negocios esenciales de la ciudad. Su existencia y propósito nunca han sido más necesarios que ahora. Quise invitar a Brittney para compartir los cinco derechos individuales de la IHC durante una redada de ICE. Hay mucha información útil que enlazaré en la descripción del episodio y, si no están disponibles donde escuchan esto, por favor vayan a 5rules.substack.com/podcast. En este episodio, ella comparte información clave sobre qué hacer en esos primeros momentos: cuando los agentes de ICE llegan a un restaurante donde trabajas, la importancia de tener a mano la red card de Immigrant Legal Resource Center en todo momento, y la relevancia de contar con un abogado o defensor profesional. Es realmente un episodio importante y educativo, y me siento muy afortunado de que ella se tomara el tiempo en lo que seguramente es un momento muy ocupado para ella y toda la organización. Así que vayamos a tus derechos. Brittney, gracias por sentarte conmigo en este momento tan aterrador e incierto en el ámbito de la hostelería de Los Ángeles y la ciudad en general. De verdad lo aprecio.[00:01:45] Brittney: Claro que sí. Gracias por invitarme.[00:01:47] Darin: Ha sido una semana extremadamente disruptiva e inquietante en la ciudad. La gente puede ver una cosa en las noticias y es diferente a lo que ustedes ven de primera mano. ¿Puedes compartir algunos de los detalles de lo que estás viendo?[00:01:58] Brittney: Más allá de los miembros de nuestra comunidad, desde el personal de cocina hasta servicio están alarmados e inseguros sobre qué restaurante o barrio será foco de una redada. También hay muchas tácticas de miedo promovidas por los medios y nuestro querido presidente. Y, aunque tu restaurante no esté en la línea de fuego, la gente ya no viene a Los Ángeles. Algunos negocios están reduciendo horarios porque su personal tiene miedo, sin importar su estatus migratorio. Basta con que estemos viendo cosas sin precedentes, donde personas están siendo detenidas por error, aunque tengan permiso de trabajo o residencia permanente. Es realmente aterrador ahora. Y creo que hay tanta incertidumbre encima de todo lo que ya hemos enfrentado en estos últimos años en LA, especialmente en alimentos y bebidas.[00:02:47] Darin: Ver restaurantes como Lasita y otros cerrando o reduciendo horarios es otra dificultad más que han soportado después de las huelgas, los incendios y ahora esto.[00:02:57] Brittney: Sí…[00:02:58] Darin: ¿Cómo está afectando esto a la comunidad restaurantera en general?[00:03:01] Brittney: Mucha gente me ha dicho que el personal ya no viene, así que solo están para un turno o hay personas asustadas, y han tenido que buscar alternativas para mantenerlos seguros o cómodos. Se están teniendo muchas conversaciones. Una amiga de la familia en Inland Empire me dijo que está cancelando todos sus trabajos en LA porque tienen una empresa de plomería.[00:03:21] Darin: No quieres…[00:03:22] Brittney: No quieren enviar a su personal aquí. Cada persona que no está es una venta menos. Una persona menos ordenando comida o comprando bebida. Es muy estresante. Aparte de que hay individuos militarizados en las calles disparando gas lacrimógeno, también hay implicaciones económicas. Es una situación super estresante.[00:03:41] Darin: Es realmente estresante y hay mucha incertidumbre, pero a pesar de todo eso, ha habido movilizaciones rápidas de grupos como la IHC y otras organizaciones comunitarias. No sé si esperanza e inspiración son las palabras adecuadas, pero ¿qué les da algo de impulso positivo?[00:03:58] Brittney: La gente se está reuniendo en torno a este problema, sin importar su política. Ver a familias siendo separadas de esta manera es suficiente para que la gente diga “no, no en nuestra ciudad”. Eso me da mucha esperanza. Y también mucha gente está dispuesta a donar recursos. La Independent Hospitality Coalition co-organizará un evento la próxima semana para dueños de restaurantes, gerentes de restaurante y bar, para informar mejor. Los que no temen por su estatus de ciudadanía están apoyando a quienes sí lo temen. Y nuevamente, no solo quienes son indocumentados o no tienen papeles, también quienes recién obtuvieron ciudadanía—hay un periodo de cinco años de gracia. Hay mucha zona gris en cómo está actuando esta administración, y ver a la gente arremangarse por esta comunidad inmigrante—no solo por lo que producen, sino porque son parte de nuestra comunidad—es realmente algo hermoso en un momento tan estresante.[00:05:00] Darin: Dado que la administración prometió 30 días de redadas de ICE y hoy se anunció que la Guardia Nacional estará aquí por 60 días, lo que encontré muy útil fue tu publicación reciente sobre lo que la gente puede hacer para protegerse. Me encantaría empezar con el primer derecho durante una redada de ICE: no abrir la puerta.[00:05:22] Brittney: Estamos viendo que ICE actúa fuera de los límites de la ley, pero esto es lo más fuerte que podemos hacer. Negar el acceso es tu derecho. Las áreas privadas no pueden ser registradas sin una orden judicial, y los jueces no están firmando alocadamente ahora. Una orden administrativa no es lo mismo que una orden firmada. Entonces, si tienes señalización clara de "Solo empleados, área privada, sin acceso sin permiso del dueño", es bastante obvio que no pueden entrar. Los dueños deben etiquetar esas áreas seguras. Si ICE aparece, o la Guardia Nacional o los marines—quienes sea—ese es el lugar al que todos van y debes hablar con tu equipo: “si ICE llega, vamos ahí”. Y otra vez, no importa tu estatus documental, todos al lugar seguro, porque aquí estamos para hacer café o tacos, no para tratar con agentes federales.[00:06:26] Darin: Si los agentes de ICE no juegan limpio e ingresan a un área privada, ¿cuál es tu segundo derecho y cómo enfrentarlo?[00:06:34] Brittney: Tu segundo derecho es guardar silencio. No tienes que decir nada. No pueden obligarte a hablar. Pueden usar tácticas de miedo como “te vamos a arrestar si no dices…” o “si no muestras tus documentos…” Mantén tu Quinta Enmienda en alto y no digas nada, porque su gran arma es sacar reacciones emocionales de la gente. Debemos quitarles ese poder diciendo nada.[00:06:59] Darin: Hablando de armas, el tercer derecho tiene que ver con algo que puedes ponerles en la mano si continúan violando tus derechos.[00:07:05] Brittney: La red card, es un recurso del Immigrant Legal Resource Center. Se puede descargar online en creo 35 o 39 idiomas. Si no hablas inglés, está tu idioma y en inglés, lo entregas al oficial. Se recomienda imprimirla en papel rojo brillante. Se encuentra en ilrc.org. La entregas y ya estás utilizando tu conocimiento constitucional para protegerte, lo cual es increíble, porque es defender tus derechos constitucionales en vivo.[00:07:56] Darin: Van a aprovechar que algunos no dominan el inglés y pueden meter un papel bajo tu nariz para firmar. ¿Cuál es tu cuarto derecho?[00:08:03] Brittney: No firmar nada. No firmes sin tu abogado. Hay muchísimos recursos gratuitos ahora. Otra vez, el ILRC es un gran recurso para abogados pro bono en estos tiempos tan difíciles. No permitas que el miedo te obligue a firmar nada. Si resistes esa presión, tienes más opciones y flexibilidad. Es realmente aterrador y estamos viendo todo en vivo por Instagram y TikTok, así que no permitas que las emociones te hagan tomar decisiones que no te favorecen.[00:08:45] Darin: La presión del tiempo y el estar forzado puede asustar a cualquiera. Este último derecho lleva un poco más de tiempo en activarse. ¿Cuál es el quinto?[00:08:57] Brittney: Encontrar un abogado. Hay tantos recursos en redes sociales. Hemos publicado recursos desde la IHC. Si un familiar fue detenido y crees que fue injusto, encuentra un abogado. Enviamos DM, contacta al ILRC. Busca tantos recursos como puedas. Vivimos en una ciudad donde la gente está luchando para que la gente pueda vivir aquí y mejorar sus vidas. Hay tantos recursos, ya sea para ti o tu familia. Eso debe ser tu prioridad. No lo navegues solo. No puedes confiar en los funcionarios del gobierno que deberían protegernos. Encuentra tu propio defensor.[00:09:45] Darin: Brittney, no puedo agradecerles lo suficiente a ti y a todos los miembros de la IHC por lo que hacen. Te encontré por tus publicaciones en redes y respondiste muy rápido. Si otras personas quieren información rápida o actualizaciones en tiempo real o pedir ayuda, ¿dónde pueden ir?[00:10:01] Brittney: Pueden ir al Immigrant Legal Resource Center, ilrc.org. No estamos afiliados, pero es una red excelente para recursos específicos de esta situación. Y luego está la Independent Hospitality Coalition. Somos un grupo de propietarios de restaurantes independientes que defendemos las necesidades únicas de negocios locales. No somos McDonald's ni Chuck E. Cheese. Somos los mejores sillas, los oyster bars y los locales auténticos de LA. Estamos siempre disponibles, somos personas reales al otro lado. Si eres dueño de un restaurante o pequeño negocio y te sientes solo o abrumado, no dudes en contactarnos. Leemos todos los mensajes y tratamos de estar presentes, queremos ayudar. Contáctanos para guía.[00:10:46] Darin: Agradezco toda la orientación. Gracias por ser una luz positiva en estos tiempos difíciles. Gracias a ti, Lisa y a todos. Buena suerte y sigan luchando lo bueno.[00:10:56] Brittney: Gracias por darnos voz. Ojalá todo mejore pronto. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Photo by Andre BaranowskiDarin sits down with writer, journalist, and Esquire editor Jeff Gordinier to talk about the blues—how to face them, move through them, and maybe, just maybe, how to feel a little better by week’s end. Jeff shares five deeply personal practices that have helped him stay grounded through life’s ups and downs—from long walks and deep sleep to seeing friends IRL and reading poetry like prayer. If you’re feeling a little off lately, this episode is your gentle reminder to slow down, pay attention, and take care.A message from the Independent Hospitality Coalition for those being affected by ICE raids in Los Angeles: Attention restaurant owners, be prepared. Thank you to everyone who has shared information that has allowed us to plan.As if restaurant owners and hospitality workers did not have enough to worry about. Our kitchens are what they are because of are immigrant community. ICE is plucking people from our community in the name of law and order, we know the truth.History will remember this moment.[00:00:00] Darin Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. I'm so excited to be joined by my friend and colleague, Jeff Gordinier. You may know him from his work in Esquire, writing about some of America's best restaurants. He's also an author, poet, and all around great guy. Today, he shares his five rules for curing the blues, or at least getting halfway there. He talks about finding the right balance of exercise. Sleep and connecting with friends. It's a really great and inspiring conversation.Please note that the content of our conversation is provided for general information only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you or anyone is suffering from depression or any type of harmful thoughts, please call the suicide and crisis lifeline, which can be reached at 988. Let's get into the rules.Jeff, it is always a pleasure to see you, especially on the week where you were nominated for a James Beard Award for your writing. How you feeling?[00:01:08] Jeff It's very gratifying, Darin. Thank you for asking about that. The Beard Nomination is for a story that truly is an example of collaboration and listening. A piece about rice and history, and it had a dual byline, but with whom I wrote it and reported it is George McCallman. And George is an old friend of mine of 30 years. And it was just a beautiful process to go to South Carolina and interview people together. You know what's an interesting aspect of this, Darin? I was just down in Laguna Beach visiting my parents. I was staying overnight in this guest room where I live. Back in 1991, 1992, when I could not find a job.[00:01:42] Darin When you first got into the business of getting started, did you realize all the ups and downs and the emotions that were gonna come with dedicating your life to this?[00:01:50] Jeff I was sending out my resume and my clips, and I would get this steady stream of rejection letters from newspapers and magazines around the country. I just hit some real lows, you know? And I thought, this is never gonna work out. I'll never find work as a writer. And revisiting that space, Darin and going back in that room, at the same time, I finally got a James Beard Foundation Award nomination. I mean, it was just fascinating. It was fascinating to contemplate that, the power of not giving up. And there were also certain practices that I undertook in 1991, personally, to combat the blues. That's really where it started for me, this five-step practice that you and I are going to discuss. I realized I can trace it back to when I was in my early 20s. And I just took very intentional steps to try and feel better, very much on my mind right now. These are more suggestions than rules because I am not a doctor, I'm not a therapist, of course. And these are not meant to be substitutioned for medication or therapy to the extent that a person would need that. That deeply resonates with me.[00:02:50] Darin It is really important to understand how to pick yourself up in this world, especially if you have dedicated your life to being a creative. I myself over the last few years, especially as I have more and more work at my computer, have realized that physical activity is a huge part of helping to get my mind right. What is rule one for you? The very first[00:03:09] Jeff one is just take walks. I go for very aggressive, extensive walks to the extent one recently was about seven hours long on a Sunday.[00:03:18] Darin Oh, when you said long walks, I envisioned an hour, maybe two if the weather's nice.[00:03:23] Jeff That's a wonderful thing to do. And I do that as well. In fact, as soon as you and I stop talking, I'm going to go for a walk through Culver City and probably up the 282 steps to the Baldwin Hills scenic overlook. But sometimes I just decide to walk around the neighborhood, go get a green tea at Undergrind. I have found that just moving seems to move around your feelings, right? Like it moves around your brain. It certainly helps with my writing. I find that when I go walking around, ideas just emerge. Oh yeah. And I also find that if I begin the day with the walk, it creates this template that's just[00:03:58] Darin I agree. I got up and played tennis this morning and I already know it's going to be a better day than when I just go and sit down at my computer. But with every exertion, there needs to come a rest to find that right balance. What is rule number two?[00:04:11] Jeff Well, rule number two, and I'm sorry to come off as so normcore here, but you've got to get your sleep. Now, I have four children, so I'm sounding very much like a father right now. I have come to believe that there really aren't many cures in life better than a deep night's In fact, Darin, just yesterday, I did not sleep well. We'll get to rule number three soon and I'll explain why. Well basically I let myself have a martini to celebrate this James Beard Foundation nomination and as a result, when I got out of bed, I could not meet a deadlock. I just, my brain was not there. Last night, I went to sleep early after the little guys went to bed. Didn't have anything to drink, didn't overeat. I slept so deeply, woke up at six. And guess what? The story was done by nine this morning. I'm also a big fan of the rest as resistance movement like Trisha Hershey and other writers. 100%. Your creative work in particular has to be nourished by rest. Otherwise you burn out.[00:05:09] Darin I think if there was a slogan on our family crest, it would be napping as an act of resistance. Oh, I love it. You alluded to this in rule two, and I think for rule three, you either discover it in a healthy way or you come to discover it a hard way.[00:05:25] Jeff What is rule number three? Take breaks from alcohol and cannabis. And I know I sound very puritanical here and I don't mean to. I'm a food writer. I do drink still. I have not encountered this truth in a hard way. I have had issues with addiction. I have friends who have. That struggle is intense and is a different struggle. What I have dealt with as a professional food writer is something you've encountered. I'm sure you have access to endless pouring of wine and beer and spirits and sake. It is very easy. Not even tempting, just easy to come to it, to surrender to that. And the blunt truth we know is that alcohol and cannabis are depressive. It has been my experience that when they're used day after day, that repetition deepens the blues and there's no way around it. You will get more depressed in early spring, 2020 and just stopped altogether. I didn't drink for about two years. I didn't have any drinks at all. It was, as everyone says, so clarifying, so refreshing, lost weight. Got deeper sleep. My writing got better. The blues kind of whisked away, you know? Yeah. I have since gotten to a point of kind of careful moderation. Sure. Obviously, because of my role at Esquire and other publications, I do have to sip things and try things, and I'm happy to. I like an ice cold martini now and then. I think at this point, Darin, it's once or twice a month I'll have a drink, and I feel better. The clarity is the most amazing thing. The beauty of the morning when you don't feel any headache whatsoever, there's no better feeling. You wake up the next morning like a new person, reborn.[00:07:00] Darin Once you've taken care of yourself, you've walked, you slept, you haven't imbibed, you're really ready to face the world. What is rule number four?[00:07:09] Jeff See your friends in the real world. Don't just text with them, don't just talk to them on the phone. I have found it so nourishing to be very intentional about getting together with my friends. And I've noticed this happening as a different kind of act of resistance and rest and healing. I have seen this happening, Darin, all around the country with all different friends. My friend Clancy Miller, she's doing a book about picnics. She does these very intentional picnicks throughout New York City. She'll gather a bunch of friends. And I actually have a dinner series with Nastasia Lopez here in LA called Fun House. And it's the same idea. Let's get creative people around the table, musicians, artists, writers, chefs, have some good food, maybe we'll hear some music, maybe somebody will recite a poem, who knows what will happen, but being intentional, making a point of getting together in a physical way around the table, breaking bread, or going for a walk together, or go for a schvitz together, the ancient sages are not wrong about that, community matters. There's a lot of that Blue Zones longevity research that suggests people live a long time not just because of what they eat but because of how they live. Other people in Sardinia or Okinawa or Costa Rica, there's a real sense of community there and people gather with family and friends. Festivals and feasts and dances. As I near 60, I'm seeing how important that is. So do it. Don't wait. Have a picnic. Form a lunch club. Find your friends who are also struggling with the blues and go out for dinner and maybe don't drink.[00:08:41] Darin Laid out rules for this physical nature, you've laid out, rules for connectivity. The final rule deals with creativity and finding something that really speaks to you to inspire you. What is rule number five?[00:08:53] Jeff Read poetry. Now, poetry for me is a spiritual practice. I happen to find poetry uniquely nourishing, and it has been a major part of my life since I was a teenager. I had a period in my life of about 15, 16 years where almost every day I would find a poem that I loved. And I would open the book, hold it open with a stapler, and type the poem by hand to understand the music and the machinery, the sort of flow of the poem. I probably typed up by hand five or 6,000 poems. Wow. Right behind me now are two entire bookshelves full of poetry. I have hundreds and hundreds of books, and this is after having given away a lot for the movie, California. It's a hobby, it's an obsession, but I found it also became, as I would share those poems with friends, it became a form of secular prayer. It also just became a very intentional stepping away from the vortex, the phones, the chaos, the breaking news, the fear, the anxiety. This is a way of saying, no, I'm going to turn that all off for a second, and I'm to read. Some poems by Kevin Young, this is Jelly Roll, this is the book that I give to anyone who tells me they don't like poetry because these are poems full of life and love and energy and lust but they're also accessible. I have made a practice of this again as a sort of cure for the blues, there's a certain time of day when I find myself getting a little down and I'll reach into these stacks of books and find Marie Howe or Ada Limon, I'll find these poems by contemporary poets many times, or ancient poets. There's a sense of relief, and the relief is almost instant. It's almost like I'm forcing my mind into a different place, right? Like I'm sort of trapped in my head, trapped in anxiety, and I'll say, no, no no no, let's think about this for a second. So here's my point, in the aggregate, let's say you have a week, Darin, where you go for walks, you sleep deeply, smoke no cannabis, drink no alcohol, intentionally see your friends around the table, and you read poetry. I probably shouldn't guarantee it, but I kinda guarantee you're gonna feel better at the end of that week. Depression is a serious affliction, it is a serious problem and a lot of people, a lot of us struggle with it.[00:10:58] Darin I do, yeah.[00:10:59] Jeff But this is not a practice that you have to be rigid or puritanical about. This is just a way, a way of being, a way of walking forward. I love it.[00:11:06] Darin Jeff, deeply appreciate you sharing these rules with us. If people want to follow your work or read the piece that you were nominated for, for James Beard Award, where can they go?[00:11:16] Jeff If you Google my last name, Gordinier, plus Rice, plus Charleston, or George McCallman plus Rice plus Charlston, it will come up. George and I are really proud of that piece and very grateful for that.[00:11:26] Darin Jeff, thank you so much and would be honored if you could finish this episode with a poem of your choice. What are you going to read?[00:11:34] Jeff The poet Jorge Luis Borges wrote in Spanish, of course. I'm going to read in English. This is a poem that in English is called The Just. It's essentially about the quiet things that we do in life that can be acts of healing and acts of resistance. And that's why I like it so much. The Just, a man who cultivates his garden as Voltaire wished. He who is grateful for the existence of music. He who takes pleasure in tracing and etymology. Two workmen playing in a cafe in the south, a silent game of chess. The potter contemplating a color and a form. The typographer who sets this page well, though it may not please him. A woman and a man who read the last tersets of a certain canto. He who strokes a sleeping animal. He who justifies or wishes to a wrong done him. He who is grateful for the existence of Stevenson. He who prefers others to be right. These people, unaware, are saving the world. Darin Beautiful. Jeff, always a pleasure. Jeff Thank you so much. Good talking to you, man. I really appreciate it.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

Darin sits down with Lien Ta—restaurateur, organizer, and one of the guiding lights of L.A.’s hospitality community. From Here’s Looking At You to Regarding Her, Lien shares her five essential rules for building community with intention, generosity, and just a little bit of magic. It’s a heartfelt, honest conversation about showing up, paying attention, and creating space for connection—both inside a restaurant and far beyond its walls. If you've ever wondered how to turn a dining room into a neighborhood, this one’s for you.Our Altadena community needs your support! We are requesting Comprehensive Testing and Remediation at AAM Following the Eaton Fire. Despite some surface testing for ash, soot, and char, the interior testing completed by PUSD to date is insufficient given the scale and nature of the fire. Nearby soil has already shown confirmed lead contamination, and numerous reports of hazardous toxins, including lead, were detected indoors near the Eaton Fire—even in buildings that had already undergone remediation.Please help us by signing the petition and keeping everyone aware of the ongoing situation![00:00:00] Darin Hello and welcome to five rules for the good life. I'm your host. Darin Bresnitz. Today, we sit down with one of my favorite people in the Los Angeles food scene, Lynn Ta. You may know her from some of her incredible restaurants, All Day Baby. Here's looking at you and as one of the magnetic forces behind regarding her. Today, she shares her five rules about how to build a community. We chat about what it means to. Show up for others. How to build something bigger than yourself. The art- of bringing people together and why she loves magic. So let's get into the rules. Lynn, so good to see you. Always a bright spot in my day when we get to sit down and have a conversation.[00:00:45] Lien Ta Oh, likewise, Darin. Thank you for having me.[00:00:47] Darin When I think of the L.A. Food community, few people sit at the top in my mind like you do. What is it like to be a part of the LA food community and what does it mean to you?[00:00:57] Lien Ta I actually have to say that I did not expect to be at the top of a community. It certainly wasn't my intention when I set forth to opening a first restaurant in 2016. But how it feels is it's a privilege, it's an honor. If I am truly there, then I take it quite seriously. It's important to me that I actually act out this role or these values of mine, and it feels good.[00:01:19] Darin It should feel good. And the last few months, how the last few years have really shown how important community is in the restaurant space. Now, I think when you open a restaurant, community is a big part of what you're building as well with here's looking at you and all day baby, how have you considered building community while you build a new restaurant?[00:01:37] Lien Ta I think the goal of opening a restaurant is so lofty as it is. Once you get your doors open, you start to realize, one, you're building a community within the four walls of your restaurant with your staff and the kinds of folks that you're hiring, the energy that you're hoping to cultivate, and the service that we're trying to provide to our guests. And I think over time, I come to realize oh, we're a meeting ground for our guests And hopefully our guests are bringing maybe a second person or another pair of folks to have dinner and then that in itself is building community and then suddenly they're speaking to the strangers next to you sitting at the bar and all of that. And then we build that trust that they can return to our restaurant.[00:02:18] Darin Yeah, I think it's really important to not just create a space, but to be a part of it as well, which can sometimes feel like the same thing, but a really two separate things. So without further ado, I'd like to get into your five rules of building community, what's the first rule.[00:02:30] Lien Ta My first rule is give first. It's so much about being generous with what you decided that you are bringing about, like your service, this restaurant, this kind of food, and really providing this space. It really is about being generally. You just have to set that foundation and build the hospitality on your home turf before you even start thinking about a broader community or growth or anything like that.[00:02:56] Darin Listen, opening up a restaurant is giving so much of yourself in the first place. And part of that comes in understanding what you need to get, which ties directly into rule two.[00:03:05] Lien Ta Rule two, it's about paying attention. The other day I was at a children's talent show.[00:03:10] Darin Mmm.[00:03:11] Lien Ta My friend, who is eight, was going on stage and singing a song with her two colleagues or peers, and I could see how nervous they were. But thinking how brave it was. So I was telling the story to a friend and they were saying, you know, Lynn, you're so good at paying attention. And so I think when you start to see who are the people that are gravitating towards, in my case, my restaurant, I do, I wanna pay attention and think about the strengths and the interests and the desires of each individual employee or each individual guest so that I can find ways to better relate to them and provide. It really starts from being a good listener and really noticing the different gifts people around you are offering and what you can also give back so that you can form those meaningful connections.[00:03:56] Darin That's so beautiful. Understanding what certain people need is one of the great aspects of being a restaurant owner, especially front of house, like you are, and recognizing that everybody needs something individual is a very special skill.[00:04:08] Lien Ta You know, as a parent, it's so much about caring, and the caroel almost has to be infinite. And with community, it really is such a core part of what it even means and to really care, you gotta pay attention.[00:04:22] Darin That infinite well of caring and giving to others ties into rule number three.[00:04:28] Lien Ta Yes, so rule number three is about recognizing others and showing up for others. I just think it's so important to make people feel seen. Make people feel heard. And a lot of that is just actually verbalizing and showing how much that person means to you or cares for you or how gifted they are in that role and really providing that kind of validation. You may not even know these people very well.[00:04:54] Darin Uh-huh.[00:04:55] Lien Ta Like, I have these guests. They're fairly new regulars of mine. They've been coming in as a couple. And the truth is, is I truly didn't know them that well. Elizabeth and Jay are their names. They came to our Halloween party. They dressed up. Long and short of it is, I found out one of them is a magician. And they're gonna have a magic show at the end of next week, and it's to benefit families that have been affected by the wildfires.[00:05:16] Darin Amazing.[00:05:17] Lien Ta I'm obsessed with magic. It's one of those few cases where you really can let go and not have a reason or understanding how something happens. So I'm gonna be there. Yeah. I had to buy tickets and like you know and all of this stuff and really just showing up for them even if we don't yet have a fully established foundation of a friendship but they are in my community. It feels so good to push that event out and hopefully get other magic enthusiasts to join along.[00:05:43] Darin I've always been a big fan of showing up for others and it's extremely important at the start of a relationship. If you can and when you can't show up for somebody has a very long lasting effect.[00:05:53] Lien Ta Yes. Were so passionate about the food industry and the restaurant industry, and there were so many years or decades where I was not a restaurant owner, but I just had to be a restaurant lover and really show that and go and visit these restaurants, whether now be my very good but before, it's just about showing them that I support. This incredible feat that they've created and I'm there to show up and be hungry.[00:06:17] Darin It's how we met. Yes, it is. It's we became friends.[00:06:20] Lien Ta Exactly.[00:06:20] Darin Being a restaurant lover and now being a restaurateur, part of being in a community and building community is providing a service, which is your rule number four.[00:06:29] Lien Ta Yes, providing service and and providing what I even would call access. I thought of this word because I was thinking about my friend Patrick Q.[00:06:38] Darin Mm-hmm.[00:06:38] Lien Ta In 2018, he reached out to me like a cold request, I guess, I mean, we weren't friends, but I knew him by reputation as the longtime restaurant critic of Los Angeles magazine. And he basically said, I'd like to write a book about what it takes to become a restaurateur. That was actually the title of the book. And I was wondering if I could spend time with you a year exactly. After it was done, I asked him why is it that he asked me to be the subject of this book. And he said, honestly, it was about access.[00:07:06] Darin Hmm.[00:07:07] Lien Ta You seem to be someone that is transparent and approachable and all of these things. You know, I really took that to heart when Patrick said that to me. And it is always my goal to be approachable. Like if someone 10, 15 years younger than me, Asian woman, for example, trying to start her own food business feels like she can reach out to me via direct message. I would like to hear from you. I can't necessarily help everyone.[00:07:31] Darin Sure.[00:07:32] Lien Ta Thinking about the resources that you are able to share and being helpful in all of those things. If you can even provide that service, if you're doing too much for strangers, are you still being available to your community? So it is this very delicate balance of being as authentically available as you can be to both sides.[00:07:49] Darin Being available, providing access is a huge part of what it means as an individual to be a part of a community. But I think rule number five is one of the toughest things to do when you're building a community, but something that you are absolutely an expert on and why we're talking to you today. What is your rule number Bringing people together. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, Michelin-starred Chef Cheng Lin of Shota Omakase, talks about his journey from summer job to sushi master, which is a lesson in patience, precision, and passion. He shares the hard-earned rules behind his craft: self-taught knife skills, years of research, and the quiet power of knowing where your fish comes from. It’s less about flash and more about focus. If you’ve ever wondered what it takes to dedicate your life to one thing and still love it decades later, these rules are for you.[00:00:00] Darin Welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I'm your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, we are joined by Michelin star, sushi master, Chef Chang Lin, who is the owner and chef at Shota Omakase in Williamsburg. We chat about his 30-year commitment to perfecting the art of sushi making, how he continuously pushes himself to learn more, and the importance of creating culture at any sushi restaurant. Let's get into the rules. [00:30:00] Darin Chef, thank you for coming by the show. It's really great to have you on. Cheng Thank you, it's my pleasure to be here. Darin I've always wanted to ask, especially since I know that the road to becoming a sushi chef, especially one at your level, is such a long journey. What drew you to it? How did you get started?[00:00:45] Cheng My first starting was teenage kids looking for a summer job, so my first job was working at a sushi restaurant here.[00:00:54] Cheng In New York City. That's how I started learning any sushi coaching.[00:00:57] Darin Was there any plan at the beginning or did you just fall into it?[00:01:01] Cheng No.[00:01:01] Cheng At the beginning, he was written in...[00:01:03] Cheng Find a job, you see, that's wrong. It wasn't a friendly at the beginning.[00:01:07] Darin How long were you working at a sushi restaurant? Did you start to realize that you really loved it?[00:01:13] Cheng It takes me a few years actually, about three years. I was lucky to working with many great Japanese chefs at the beginning, but you know, I was young and I wasn't knowing much about sushi because in China I never eat sushi before I came to the United States before I started working in a sushi restaurant. It takes about three year for me to start more understanding about sushi, where is sushi, what is so different about sushi. Even my first bite of sushi was three years later. It was amazing. It tastes so great. Then I started to do more research about sushi. At the time that I was working at the restaurant that where my co-worker who has this book called Sushi no Soda, where I've been reading it, it really got me into about sushi[00:01:57] Darin You worked at some of New York's most legendary sushi places, Blue Ribbon, Edo Tribeca. What was it like working at those restaurants during the rise of sushi's popularity?[00:02:10] Cheng Every sushi restaurant, every sushi culture restaurant is very different. So I'm learning so much from every single individual person that I'm working with from every restaurant.[00:02:22] Darin When did you realize it was time for you to go out on your own and open up your own restaurant, Shota Omokase?[00:02:29] Cheng I always dream about to have sushi restaurant one day if I can own my own sushi shop.[00:02:34] Darin The thing that I love about your journey is that you started from never having sushi, not knowing much about it to now being a Michelin star sushi restaurant. So I'd love for you to share your five rules on how to become a sushi chef. And the first one starts with learning about sushi as a food and as a culture.[00:02:53] Cheng First of all, we need to understand about what really we are doing. If you want to become a good sushi chef, you need to have a lot of education, knowing about every ingredient, nice skills, self-education. Back then, when I was studying learning sushi, chefs normally, they don't really teach you how exactly to make every single thing. They will tell you, for example, making this sauce, and they will tell your ingredient, but they won't tell you the result, so you need figure it out yourself. If you're a person who really wants to learn learning, it's a lot of time-spending, self-education, a lot attention became a sucess. I think this is the number one rule. You need to have very self-motivated learning. If you don't have self-motivation to learning, I don't think it's gonna be easy to gain.[00:03:40] Darin Sushi show. Understanding the background of it and the desire to put in that time is so important to mastering any sort of skill. But another huge part of sushi comes down to the preparation and the knife work. So can you talk to me about rule two?[00:03:56] Cheng The knife skill, so as it is, it's about time, how much time you spend on it. So it's not about how long you've been doing it, it's how much you spend it. Time, it means something to it, but the spending a lot of time on it is more important. So you need to be hands-on to do everything, not just by watching.[00:04:13] Darin That time comes with a dedication, especially when you know that there's so many master sushi chefs out there. What is rule three?[00:04:22] Cheng The person to be working in sushi restaurant, especially high-end or makase restaurant, be a detailed attention, prettiness is very important. In order to get to that level, first of all, you need to have training yourself very well, make sure everything you're dancing from gets that is more professionally done because there's no mistake to make.[00:04:39] Cheng Mhm.[00:04:40] Cheng Once you start working at a counter, there's no excuse for it. Everything has to be getting done at the time, at the moment, because everybody watching you. So cleanliness is very, very super important. And of course, experience from yourself is important, everything you're learning, even so to the people.[00:04:56] Darin You bring up being at a counter, serving the customer and interacting with them. So much about sushi is the food, but also everything around it. What is rule four?[00:05:05] Cheng Rule for knowing everything what we're serving. There's two types of sushi come here, right? So you go to regular sushi restaurant, you're eating sushi, chef making, putting the blade, serving you, here you go, that's your sushi. And there's another way, which is guests coming, they want to know, okay, where this fish come from, where it come from? How you make it? This for me is more about. You can have your own sushi culture. Educate your guests. Before doing that, you need to educate yourself and make sure that everything you're serving, everything you getting, is going to be special. Everything that guests have, you know where everything get from. I think this is very important.[00:05:43] Darin Being able to create your own culture at Shota Omakase is so special and so important, but you're also always evolving. How does that tie into rule number five?[00:05:53] Cheng Not just serving the sushi, it's more about education. I think it's important that every guest knows where everything comes from. So learning every background, the fishes, the ingredients you're getting from a survey is very, very important. It's a lot more self-education and you need to do a lot of research to learn about it. Because the in In rational engineering, the chef doesn't have much time to teach every single thing, so it's important that we need to spend our own time learning about it. But luckily for us today, we have the internet. You never stop learning. That's the only way. When you think about in 30, 40 years, you're doing one thing in your life. Are you getting bored someday?[00:06:32] Cheng Yes. Of course.[00:06:33] Cheng A lot of people give up because they just need something new, but we talk about passion. Passion is more about the relax of the patient and it may pay off one day, it may not. We're very lucky what we're doing today. I'm very lucky with what I'm doing today and I do one thing that I like for my life. Important, continue learning, make it interesting. It's not just serving sushi, it's more about with the guests. It's all about relationships from everybody.[00:06:59] Darin It's a beautiful thing to find something, to come to something in life and dedicate so much time to it and to still love it. 30 years later, it's a very rare thing.[00:07:09] Cheng That's why it's lucky, so I'm very happy about it.[00:07:12] Darin Chef, congratulations. Thank you so much for sharing your rules. If people want to come visit the restaurant or if they want to follow along and see what fish you're serving or what seasonal ingredients, where can they go?[00:07:23] Cheng They can go to our restaurant's Instagram account. We regularly post in our seasonal ingredients at SodaOmakase.com or they can follow my personal Instagram account, which is[00:07:35] Darin Sushi chef, Chang Ming. Amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your five rules on how to become a sushi chef. I hope one day that I get to sit across your counter from you someday soon.[00:07:46] Cheng Yeah, you're more than welcome to come in. Hopefully we can meet in person soon.Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe