Frank and Stan Chats

The SPOTLIGHT editions of the Frank and Stan Chat provide us with a chance to meet colleagues with one topic of conversation. The 30th edition is with Sian Hampton and Alice Gregson. They have created a System Leadership programme that is focused on a range of partners delivering services for children and families. It brings educators together with those from health, social care, housing and other partners to consider how jointly they can contribute more if they are better coordinated. The chat considers how previous attempts have been marginally successful and what is currently being attempted. Sian and Alice get a chance to chat about their new programme. If you are interested this is the weblink you will need. https://elevatingleadership.co.uk/programmes/Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It is always a joy to have John Malynn back as a guest on the chat. He is the only senior civil servant we know of to lead on accountability for the DfE, including its relationship with Ofsted, and also be invited to join the inspectorate as a key policy adviser. A rather unique set of experiences.With so much happening in politics this week we focus on the important work of the Education Select Committee and their meeting with Sir Martyn Oliver on Tuesday. Before we get into that ,Stan considers what he gained from a restful week in Spain and how it influenced his thinking on the drive for better attendance. John then considers a host of DfE announcements, why they were made and who will monitor their introduction. Frank then considers how the Chief Inspector wanted to focus on provision rather than outcomes in considering how effective Ofsted is in managing staff wellbeing.It's a lively and lengthy chat but please stick with it cos there are some interesting insights in how government works and how the relationship with the inspectorate has changed over time.Enjoy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It was a pleasure to welcome Jill Munday to the Frank and Stan Chat. Jill has had a varied and interesting career and met Frank when they were Assistant Divisional Managers working on local authority inspections with Ofsted. Since retiring Jill has been a passionate supporter of The Malagiri School in Nepal. This Spotlight chat covers how she got involved, how she currently supports their work and what she has gained from the experience. She’s visiting the school again in November. It is a fascinating chat and enables us to consider the lessons for English education at a time of challenge and change. If you would like to donate to the school, there is a link on their website www. https://malagirischool.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Part 2 of the chat due to a power cut during the recording. Stan is away this week so Frank had the chance to chat with Dave Smith, a former colleague in the Coop Group Press and Media team, someone Frank worked with frequently when he was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust. Our relaxed chat covers how best to use the media, including social media, for the benefit of the school and how it is really not acceptable to have a head in the sand approach. Dave offers some straight forward advice and tackles the problem where a few headteachers consider themselves to be great communicators when in fact they are not. As with many things in this area it is important to know what to do in advance of a problem arising. We also cover how a proactive approach can support the handling of the increasing number of complaints schools are receiving. There is a link at the end to a chat Frank had with Joe Dundas about marketing and communication a few years ago. The video has had nearly 400 views and can be broken down into chunks. Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Part 1 due to a power cut during the recording: Part 2 follows. Stan is away this week so Frank had the chance to chat with Dave Smith, a former colleague in the Coop Group Press and Media team, someone Frank worked with frequently when he was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust. Our relaxed chat covers how best to use the media, including social media, for the benefit of the school and how it is really not acceptable to have a head in the sand approach. Dave offers some straight forward advice and tackles the problem where a few headteachers consider themselves to be great communicators when in fact they are not. As with many things in this area it is important to know what to do in advance of a problem arising. We also cover how a proactive approach can support the handling of the increasing number of complaints schools are receiving. There is a link at the end to a chat Frank had with Joe Dundas about marketing and communication a few years ago. The video has had nearly 400 views and can be broken down into chunks. Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Both of us look forward to Aelwyn's annual visit to the Frank and Stan Chat. Always well prepared, challenging and at times controversial Aelwyn is, as my wife says, a proper HMI. After over 20 years of working for Ofsted in various roles, he retired a few years ago, but he remains committed to his desire for all children and young people to succeed.Stan gets things rolling as he considers a couple of complaints about services he has received recently. The difference in the way he felt after both of them is quite striking. He considers whether schools can learn from the starkly different outcomes. Aelwyn then considers how strongly schools are committed to enrichment activities and how things have changed over time in terms of what some staff offer to their pupils. He recalls in detail his attempts to coach a rugby team when his talents were possibly better suited to music.With time short, Frank lays a marker down for the next chat when he draws attention to the manager positions at his beloved Southend Utd and Southampton FC. There is much to learn from those two situations at the moment.And yes, we are chatting to Aelwyn about another appearance in May 2027.Enjoy, cos it's a belter. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Frank began working with Alice when she invited him to be the co-leader of a leadership programme with her for Forum Strategy. They struck it off straight away and enjoyed a few years collaborating and sharing connections to improve the impact of their leadership work. Alice is driven by a desire to share and listen to others and her relaxed approach comes across very strongly in this week’s chat. She has recently commenced a new role away from Forum Strategy so it was good to catch up.Stan gets things rolling by reflecting on the recent SPOTLIGHT chat with Malcolm Greenhalgh who challenged us to think more carefully on the importance of transition and the need for, what he called ‘Inclusive Flexibility’. Stan digs into the available research to determine whether the aspects he considers to be fundamental to good transition are borne out. He confirms they are but reflects on the academic descriptions used to explain quite straightforward approaches.Alice considers the recent local election results and their potential for change in the short and longer term for education and those leading schools, Colleges and settings. We consider whether the achievements of the current government have been explained well enough and Frank expresses a belief that a lack of radical approaches to press and media ownership are not helping.Frank brings the chat to a close by reflecting on the PM’s work and how he is trying to manage conflicting advice. He relates this to the work of a SLT in schools where there is a need for private dissent but public support for leaders. If this is eroded then those being led begin to feel an erosion of power and influence.Frank and Stan found the chat fascinating. Alice was a great guest and brought the best out of the hosts. She will be back in w few weeks as a SPOTLIGHT Guest with another colleague, and we can’t wait.Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

An absolute privilege to be joined by Malcolm Greenhalgh, a former Primary school teacher who went on to lead one of England's largest independent inspection companies contracted to Ofsted and is now leading Incyte, a school improvement consultancy. Malcolm provided us with a helpful steer on what he was going to discuss and Ive copied it here. Inclusive FlexibilityLike most I chat to about family and particularly about our children and grandchildren the chat always turns to the concerns we have about their future. And, in particular, how are they going to survive in such a dynamic world influenced by the impact of AI on the perception of truth, or how international criminal gangs are taking control over the lives of the average hard working person. The chats are always tinged with a significant sense of sadness as our society seems to be walking blindly into a state of chaos where there is great disregard for the laws created to ensure the world we live in is civilised and focussed on the well-being of all rather than well-being of some. There is also a sense of dismay when the chat turns to politics which also seems to focus on those that operate on personal gain rather than working together harmoniously for the well-being of all. However, it is so easy to criticise but much harder to identify well thought out solutions to these mega issues.Those of us in education may feel a great burden on our shoulders to provide our pupils with hope for a successful future in life that focuses on a positive contribution to society as a whole rather than a negative one. After all, isn’t this why we became involved in education in the first place?To achieve this altruistic goal is a conundrum that educationalists around the world are faced with. Most fall into a trap of identifying solutions based on the same start point as we have always started from and then struggling to find the answers that will ensure our system of education is inclusive, equitable and fair, ensuring all pupils have the chance to achieve the goal of making a positive impact on society as a whole. The result is that we simply despair that we are not achieving what we set out to achieve.In England, I always felt a sense of positivity during the 20th century and early part of the 21st century that we were moving in the right direction, we were making changes that did give all our pupils a fair chance of finding a life after school that they could use their skills, knowledge and understanding to make the positive contribution to society that we so want them to make enabling them to live a happy and fulfilled life. Yes, we did make mistakes when experimenting with new approaches to create an equitable system, but the direction towards the goal was always a positive one in the end.However, the 100 years or so of progression came to an abrupt decline after the expert panel’s divisive conclusions in 2012 and the will of Gove to turn the education clock back to something more akin to Victorian education principles rather than those needed in a modern, fast moving world.Although many countries around the world follow a similar process of schooling there are others that are taking decisions that will help to prepare the current population of pupils for the world they will meet when they leave full-time education.What we need to consider in England is how we change our education system into one that has inclusivity and equity at its heart and meets the decisive individual needs of very different pupils. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It is a privilege to have the chance to chat colleagues who have had impressive careers and are now making a difference through their support for others on their leadership journey. Today, we chatted to Glyn Potts, a former Headteacher who has been a guest while a headteacher on our weekly chat. He was joined by Neil Jurd, the former military senior officer and author of The Leadership Book and a previous guest. Neil has developed the Leader-Connect online platform, and both are now collaborating on a new leadership programme for school leadership teams.The chat covers their work in developing the new leadership programme and why we all feel that many existing programmes do not prepare senior leaders well enough for the ‘white heat’ moments they encounter. Glyn and Neil explain how they have recently worked with the entire senior leadership team at Dallam School, using it as an example, and what they believe staff have gained from the short and intense development programme. Oh, by the way, their programme leads to a formal qualification from the Institute of Leadership.Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is a special edition of the Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT edition because we are joined by someone who we have both worked with. Joshua Mangas is a senior education and governance leader with over 15 years' experience across schools,training providers, and public sector partnerships. He currently leads governance development and strategy for over 500 schools across Lancashire at Lancashire County Council, and serves as Chair of Governors at St Andrew's C of E Primary in Ramsbottom.Before moving into governance, Joshua was Assistant Principal at Co-op Academy Walkden where he met Frank and Stan. Frank was the CEO of the trust that adopted the academy and Stan was one of its trustees. While at the academy Josh doubled the national average in post-16 apprenticeship progression and was personally described as "exemplary" by Ofsted. He has won multiple national awards for careers education and has acted as a technical advisor to MPs, Ofsted, and the DfE on governance and transformation strategies.He founded the Governance Assurance Framework because he saw the same pattern across hundreds of schools: governance was the only function in school improvement without a system.During our chat Josh explains what the Governance Assurance Framework is and how it is organised into 47 governance elements across 11 governance functions and falls into three stages. It is free to all schools and not just to those in Lancashire.You can find out more here https://governanceassurance.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's quite rare for a guest to have to drop out of a planned visit to the Frank and Stan Chat but that happened recently so we used the World Wide Web to ask for volunteers. We’re pleased to report that a few people responded. We were then presented with a problem. How do you select which one? We decided to choose the first person who'd replied and that was Joe Pardoe.Joe has a fascinating back story and a varied career in education. He explains all of this at the start of the chat. We were particularly interested in his experiences working at School 21. We explained how well we knew Liz Robinson, a colleague closely linked to School 21 and her work as co-founder of Big Education. Joe explained brilliantly was a fascinating time it was and how it continues to strongly influence his work.The chat moves on to the regular slot of ‘what’s caught our eye/s this week?’- Stan drew attention to the RISE advisers and the distances some have been expected to travel to support schools. He explains the fundamental weaknesses in this approach including its inefficiencies. He then wonders why existing school improvement services that exist locally have not been brought into the RISE programme?- Joe, switches the issue of ‘what’s caught our eye’ to 'what hasn’t caught our eye? He wonders why the school admission notification date for the Primary phase appears to have got such little attention. He points out that for his family, it has been a hot topic on local Whatsapp groups with parents asking for advice and support and wondering what they will do if they don’t get their first choice?- Frank then considers the appointment of Matthew Purves as the Ofsted Director charged with leading the development of the MAT/SAT inspection Framework. He explains why the appointment may rest heavy for those involved in the Caversham Primary School tragedy and questions why some fresh talent wasn’t sought for such a challenging role?It’s a friendly, supportive, and we hope interesting chat. Joe was a great guest.Enjoy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our guests this week are Alan Braven and Anthony Benedict. Anthony is CEO of Ambition Community Trust and Executive Head Teacher of Tameside Pupil Referral Service, with 27 years of experience in education.Alan is a recently retired Executive Headteacher of Endeavour Federation, which provides specialist SEMH (Social, Emotional, and Mental Health) provision in Manchester. They are co-authors of the book 'Educating Everyone: An Introduction to Relational Inclusion in Schools'This week's chat about education and leadership includes the following issues:1. Should Martin's Law, when introduced in 2027, be a shared responsibility between the Headteacher/CEO and the Governing Body /Trust Board?2. An FOI to the DfE reveals what they view a successful school to be. It's a disconcerting and deeply troubling picture.3. The White Paper may be a signal of a step forward, but the Inclusion Hubs appear to be poorly thought through.4. Can we have a commitment to inclusion when we still expect parents/carers to buy school uniform that is so expensive?An engaging, lively and respectful chat between colleagues feeling comfortable with each other.Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In May 2025, Frank met Ellen Mukwewa at a conference, and they followed this up with a virtual chat or two. During one the chats Ellen explained that she and her good friend Michelle Baker had created a new organisation bringing together those involved in the non-association independent school sector. As this was an issue the Frank and Stan Chat had not covered on a regular basis it seemed a good opportunity to set up a SPOTLIGHT edition to better understand the sector. This SPOTLIGHT delves into a sector that is poorly understood by many but is a crucial element in supporting many children and young people with a diverse range of needs. What follows is a fascinating discussion.Enjoy, and we hope learn more about their newly formed alliance, their upcoming conference and their ambition for the future. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It is always a pleasure to have a previous guest return to our chat so that we can develop further some key points from the initial chat. Cathal Lynch joined us in March 2025 and received some of the highest viewing and listening figures in recent times. He's an engaging and deeply committed colleague who has focused on wellbeing in schools in recent years. The Wellbeing Quality Mark is well worth considering www.wbqm.co.uk This chat considers the financial effectiveness of some high-profile trusts that have encountered financial challenges in recent weeks. Stan and Cathal let rip with Frank acting more like a BBC journalist. We should add that many trusts are well-led and financially secure, but there are still some lessons to learn from recent issues and problems. Frank closes the chat with reference to a recently published research paper into 'stuck' schools, a phrase he personally dislikes. TURNING AROUND ‘STUCK’ SCHOOLS IN ENGLAND: EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP IN EXTREMELY CHALLENGING CIRCUMSTANCES by Bernadette Munoz and Melanie Ehren challenges the idea that support from afar is unlikely to be effective. A message perhaps for the RISE programme. Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rebecca Leek, poet, musician, former Headteacher of three schools, broadcaster and author of The School-Ready Governor returns to the chat. She was a guest in March 2025 and made a very favourable impression, bringing a wide range of insights on education and leadership. It's a timely chat with World Book Day on Thursday 5th March.Rebecca explains how her life has changed in some respects since our last chat and how she is engaging in so many more things. These include;- creating a podcast that focuses on poetry called 'The Ditty Bag' https://rebeccaleek.substack.com/podcast- learning to play the accordian, and;- performing it in a band. She continues to be involved in the Suffolk Primary Headteachers' Association.This week's chat starts with Stan explaining why Martin's Law continues to be an issue, which he feels isn't getting sufficient attention. He draws on some interesting examples of how schools have tried to be innovative in addressing possible risks to pupil and staff safety. Rebecca makes clear that risk assessment and mitigation are proactive and positive measures.Rebecca then considers the implications for SEND within the recent White Paper. She is concerned about the sense of universality that embraces the report and the difficulties in managing parent and carer expectations moving forward. We also discuss how effective a national training programme for SEND will be and the implication it conveys, that schools are not effective in managing the issues. Frank completes the discussion by considering what he learned from 4 months of interim CEO work for a small trust in Greater Manchester.An interesting and broad ranging discussion. Sorry, it went over the 35 minutes limit, but we felt it was worthwhile. We hope you agree.The various links Rebecca referenced in the chat can be found belowwww.rebeccaleek.comPodcast: The Ditty BagAuthor: The School Ready Governor - BloomsburyExec. Director: Suffolk Primary Headteachers' AssociationFind Rebecca on X and Instagram And a new project she is crowdfunding for: 'Elizabeth Fry Stops By'https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/elizabeth-fry-stops-byEnjoy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Frank has known Mel since 2013, has observed her teaching, leading staff training and contributing strongly to developments in a number of schools. She's an energetic, gifted and committed colleague. When Frank and Stan realised she had published a book, we thought it was a good time to invite her and her co-author Andy Buck, to sit down and explain why they felt a focus on supply teachers and cover supervisors was a good topic. What followed was much more than just a chat about those specific staff roles, but more an explanation as to what effective teaching looks like, what skills are necessary and how senior leaders should perhaps do more to support. Mel draws on her many years of teaching, but also a period when she undertook supply cover in another secondary school in North Manchester and how she needed to draw on her experience to have a positive impact.We discover the role that Andy played in encouraging Mel to sit down and write the book in collaboration with him. The section of the chat at 20 mins where Mel explains her teaching approach is well worth ten minutes of every person who leads a class. At under £10 for a copy of the book, it is something every school should have a copy of.Sit back and enjoy the chat. It's a belter. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Six months ago, Frank and Stan met Steve Kirkpatrick in a rather nice hotel in Worsley, Gt Manchester. Frank had become aware of an application Steve and a colleague had developed that supports school self-evaluation. It appears to take some of the back-breaking and tedious work undertaken by senior leaders in developing a robust self-evaluation statement. Since we met, Steve has further improved the product and has increased the number of schools adopting it. We thought it was time to learn more about his background, the application and where it might progress. Stan was away on holiday, so the chat was with Frank. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When we started the Frank and Stan Chat in May 2020, we thought it would last a week or two. It was a way for the two friends to keep in touch during the various Covid lockdowns. Astonishingly, the chats have now reached the 250 mark. We never planned to have a certain guest for this special edition. To be honest, we don't work in that way. Setting up the chats relies on a number of diaries coming together, but we were pleased to have the amazing Paul Ainsworth with us for this special chat. Paul has been a guest twice before and we have found his support and engagement an important part of why we continue to meet every week and record the chats. This recording is slightly different because we reflect on the chats and how they developed, we than have Paul discussing an article he had published earlier that day where he considers the outcomes of the first batch of Ofsted inspections and then it closes with Frank returning to Chat No. 102 where his brother, a former HMI with Estyn shares what he would put in Room 101.A lovely discussion and a suitable one for a chat that is always meant to be kind and reflective.Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When we started the Frank and Stan Chat in May 2020, we thought it would last a week or two. It was a way for the two friends to keep in touch during the various Covid lockdowns. Astonishingly, the chats have now reached the 250 mark. We never planned to have a certain guest for this special edition. To be honest, we don't work in that way. Setting up the chats relies on a number of diaries coming together, but we were pleased to have the amazing Paul Ainsworth with us for this special chat. Paul has been a guest twice before and we have found his support and engagement an important part of why we continue to meet every week and record the chats. This recording is slightly different because we reflect on the chats and how they developed, we than have Paul discussing an article he had published earlier that day where he considers the outcomes of the first batch of Ofsted inspections and then it closes with Frank returning to Chat No. 102 where his brother, a former HMI with Estyn shares what he would put in Room 101.A lovely discussion and a suitable one for a chat that is always meant to be kind and reflective.Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A fascinating chat this week with Richard Ronksley, CEO of Altus Education Partnership based in and around Rochdale. The multi-academy trust was established in April 2017 by the governing body of Rochdale Sixth Form College, an outstanding A level provider established in 2010. In 2019, the Trust opened a new free school - Edgar Wood Academy - which serves the local community in Middleton and Heywood. In 2022, Kingsway Park High School joined and then in 2023, the first primary school, Bamford Academy got on board. Caldershaw Primary School is the most recent member to join in July 2025.Richard provides an assured and considered approach when discussing the impact of strong post-16 provision in an area. We consider how highly effective Colleges lift ambition and provide access to further education and the workplace. He explains how his career was largely about walking a particular path in a particular way and taking opportunities as they arise.Stan considers the impact of Sir Ken Robinson on his thinking and how his work, including the various keynotes that have been recorded, have been an inspiration with an emphasis on creativity. Richard then draws attention to an 18th Century Catholic guidance book he saved from a bonfire and how the instructions largely remain relevant today. Frank then reflects on a recent discussion with some trade union and professional association leaders, where he was unguarded and frustrated. He also draws attention to the introduction of the book Taking Back Control 3 by Paul Garvey. The introduction was written by Edmund Barnet-Ward, a governor at Caversham Primary School. It is a tour de force and worth reading.We hope you enjoy the chat. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mel Ainscow is an eminent academic and practitioner who is particularly interested in the universal challenge of developing forms of education that make a difference for all children and young people, no matter their characteristics or backgrounds. Drawing on his extensive work in the UK and overseas, Mel explains the six critical aspects that need to be embraced as part of a more effective approach to ensuring that every child matters and they matter equally.During the discussion Mel explains how some existing policy positions and historical approaches hinder progress in ensuring greater equity and inclusion. He is at pains to argue that context matters because social factors, political factors and cultural factors impinge on potential improvement. He draws on some recent work where effective cooperation and collaboration have encouraged more schools to share their knowledge and approaches. He then ponders why less progress in tackling issues beyond the school gate have not been tackled. He closes the chat with optimism as he recalls recent progress in Dundee and the Merseyside Region.Mel is always good value. He's engaging and realistic. We hope the chat is helpful and don't forget his most recent book "Reforming Education Systems for Inclusion and Equity' is available at all good bookshops, including online.Enjoy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It is always a pleasure to welcome a guest onto the Frank and Stan Chat who actually watches our weekly chats regularly. Laura McPhee is Director of Education at the University Schools Trust in London. She's a former Headteacher who is committed to social justice and also lectures at the South Bank University. She's currently finalising her second book before it goes to publication later this year. It follows her first book, which was very well received, called 'Tackling Poverty and Disadvantage in Schools'.The chat begins with Laura explaining her career journey before we break with tradition and ask her, 'What has caught her eye this week?' She explains the optimism she felt when the government published its long-awaited violence against women and girls (VAWG) strategy on 18th December 2025, This followed a clear manifesto commitment to halve this abuse within a decade. Laura explained how the timing of the release of the strategy was unfortunate, being so close to the Christmas break. She is expecting schools to begin to consider any necessary changes in their approach shortly. She was shocked, however with the way the media and social media responded and immediately took a polarising viewpoint.Stan considers the difficulty older citizens face in using a largely digital system within the NHS. Frank celebrates the amazing evening he watching 'Singing in the Rain' at the Royal Exchange Theatre as well as the good news that northern railways are likely to improve and places are going to be better connected. It is going to be a long wait, but he hopes schools will begin to consider the employment opportunities and help deliver the improvements. A great chat. Enjoy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It has taken a little while to agree on a slot but, at last Adrian Bethune, founder of Teachappy, part-time Primary School teacher, Lead author for Oxford University Press' International Wellbeing Curriculum, Deputy Chair of the strategic board for Well Schools, Associate lecturer at Oxford Brookes University, Wellbeing Governor at Broughton Community Schools and most importantly, father to two young boys joins our chat. And what a brilliant guest he turns out to be. In fact, the discussion around pupil and teacher wellbeing engulfs the conversation so much that we only have time for Adrian to share his 'what's caught your eye' this week slot.The conversation considers some of the practical issues that can support better wellbeing for staff, but this then leans into how teaching staff can support their pupils better in managing their own physical and emotional wellbeing. Adrian draws on international comparisons and considers the vast array of research on the topic of well-being in making a case for it to be more prominent in judging how effectively schools are led.Adrian draws attention to a book he is currently reading called 'Poor' by Katriona O'Sullivan. He explains how the author draws on her struggles as a child and how they continue to impact her through adult life. Frank then recalls the work of Kerry Hudson called 'Lowborn' that follows a similar vein. These act as a timely reminder of the reality of deep poverty.A brilliant chat. Adrian has agreed to return to the chat, and we are very keen to make this happen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Happy New Year! We are delighted to upload a fascinating chat we had with Dame Kathy August. Kathy is a former Headteacher, a senior local education authority leader, Manchester's first academy CEO, former Board member at Ofsted and Honorary Visiting Professor at Salford Business School. She's also an author and now works as an independent adviser. So, an impressive and varied career which comes to light during a wide ranging chat.Stan gets things moving by considering 'survivor bias'. He reflects on the choices made by politicians and education leaders who are heavily influenced by their own education experiences. These are usually viewed as successful. Stan makes the point that more attention needs to be given to those failed by the system to better understand what needs to be changed to help them succeed, therefore avoiding inherent 'survivor bias.Kathy then reflects on the proposal to introduce MAT inspections. She's in favour but highlights the dangers and pitfalls in the proposal. She is concerned how a value for money judgement would be reached and how the associated inspection Framework would be developed. Frank explains how MAT inspections could be used to reduce the impact and number of school inspections.Frank then considers a quote he saw from Neil Jurd, author of The Leadership Book and former guest on the Frank and Stan Chat. We discuss the impact of influencers and Frank wonders whether he is such a person. Kathy offers insight into the negativity of such individuals. The quote is copied here 'I am sometimes asked to account for the success of influential people whose leadership style is so different from the inclusive and positive leadership style that I advocate. The usual examples are self-serving politicians whose style is divisive and egotistical, or further along the same scale, dictators, and despots. But of course, there are self-centred, narcissistic, and egotistic people thriving in senior positions in all walks of life. You may know some, and their energy and impact are likely to be negative.These people inhabit senior positions, but their intrinsic motivation is usually self-centred; they lead in order to serve their own purposes. For their own recognition and wealth, rather than for any greater good. In my experience, these people do not lead in the truest sense of the word. I call this 'false leadership'; it is presented as leadership, and it looks like leadership from a distance, but it lacks the meaning, substance and positivity of the real thing.'There is so much more covered in the chat but you will have to watch or listen to find the gems.Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The final Frank and Stan Chat of 2025 sees them chatting with Jan Allen, a former Headteacher of a large secondary school in Rochdale and now the Director of the Education Community Partnership. Jan decided to step away from headship at a time when many would have decided to stay. She had achieved a Good Ofsted but felt she needed a new challenge. As someone committed to the community she served, she decided to try and support students and young people who face multiple and considerable challenges through working with voluntary agencies and charities. She admits the recent experiences have provided a deeper insight into the impact of poverty and the challenges young people face.Stan considers the Reform Party's proposals to utilise the spaces available in rarely used churches to help address the SEND crisis. He believes it is a crazy and ill-considered idea. Jan then reflects on the well-publicised Safeguarding report on the approaches to behaviour management at Mossbourne MVP in London. We all consider the response from the government's behaviour tsar over the issue and how the report author appears to have successfully held a secure handle on the issues. Frank then reflects on an article he recently published by Forum Strategy that focuses on the importance of the community.It's a wide-ranging discussion. We hope you enjoy it. We are back in early 2026. Happy festive greetings from us both. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Since 2020, the Frank and Stan Chat has been fortunate to have Eric Craven, a former Senior HMI, and more recently, an acclaimed poet, as a guest. Eric's observational and reflective approach makes his poems accessible, humorous and highly enjoyable. Last year, Stan composed a poem, and this year he offers the same again. So, four Eric poems and one from Stan, entwined with some general chat, generally focused on education and leadership. What more do you need to lift spirits as we head into the festive period. Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week we were fortunate to have Lois McClure, an amazing colleague who has worked at the Coop Group for 13 years and took an apprenticeship route into her career. She explains how she became aware at College that she didn't want to go to university even though there was pressure from the teachers to do so. She knew she wouldn’t enjoy 'going to lectures and then going back to a room to write an essay about it'. So, she embarked on a varied career with the Coop which saw her winning a number of national awards as an apprentice, speaking to large audiences about her work and the value she places on cooperative values as well as accepting any new challenge with a 'Yes mentality'. Some parts of the chat are worthy of sharing with students thinking of apprenticeships as well as emphasising the way she embraces new challenges. It is ok to feel nervous. Stan considers the learning he gained from a conference he attended the day before on workplace psychology and Frank draws attention to Alex, a follower of the chat who shared their Spotify Wrapped outcomes which saw over 450 minutes listening to our chat in the past year. Amazing. We would love to have this colleague along as a guest. With just two more Frank and Stan Chats before the Christmas break we have begun reflecting on some of the many highlights this year. We will share these in the two remaining editions. Thank you for your support. Enjoy! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In January 2021, the gents were connected to Henry May, a social entrepreneur based in Bogotá. Henry had moved to Colombia to begin social projects to improve the lives of less fortunate young people. He set up Coschool, a social enterprise focused on creating and implementing experiential learning programs. His teaching experience in London and his own personal education journey helped him realise how important the non-academic aspects of education were. He also knew how powerful sport could be in encouraging young people to engage more fully with education. He set up Coschool and the Huracan Foundation to achieve his ambition of a fairer life for all. Henry has a clearly defined education philosophy, and it is refreshing to hear a colleague explain so cogently what many educators believe in the UK but feel unable to express.Stan kicks off by explaining how shocked he was to find how AI can manipulate images for sexual gratification. The chat considers whether banning things helps. Henry then explains how character education, a young person's wellbeing and opportunities for social beneficial activities increasingly play an important part in Colombian education. Frank then considers how two words can change the responses to attendance data.It's a belting chat. Henry has agreed to return to our chat. We can't wait.Enjoy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

One of the great joys for those of us involved in the Frank and Stan Chat is that some amazing educators are willing to spend some time chatting to us about the things that interest them. On occasions, we feel as though we know quite a bit about their area of interest, but today was slightly different. We were joined by Mark Philips, a former Senior HMI and National Lead for Music, who was able to draw on a vast range of experience and insight. The chat is useful for those with an interest in the arts, particularly, music but it will also be useful for those who worry about a balanced curriculum and whether opportunity is really for all.Stan gets things moving by considering the changes that will need to be made by schools to accommodate the demands of Martin's Law. Mark then reflects on the city of Manchester, its vibrancy, its welcome and the way it has transformed into an economic success story. Frank then considers the place of 'carousels' in the school curriculum. This is where Mark really comes to the fore.Enjoy and share. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

With over 250 weekly Frank and Stan Chat, including nearly 20 SPOTLIGHT editions, the bar is high in terms of guests making a highly positive impression. What becomes clear in this SPOTLIGHT with Les Walton is that there is a highly experienced colleague with a clear philosophy and a burning ambition to encourage collaboration and cooperation. In an earlier part of his life he led a Secondary school, a College, set up Schools North East and advised a number of PMs on education policy. If you have a spare 40 minutes I suggest you sit back and listen carefully to his insight and reflect on its relevance in your school or College. One of the very best Chats we have been fortunate to undertake. Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is a really important weekly chat because every year we invite Carolyn Eyre, a professional colleague well informed in the area of child protection and safeguarding. Her chats always cover areas that we have missed, and highlights changes that are afoot. She believes we are at the start of a storm, and many appear unaware that the storm is coming. Stan considers the likely impact of the government setting an expected national standard of 75% for children to reach 'a good level of development' in Early Years. He references Goodhart's law, which states, "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure". Carolyn then explains what changes and proposed laws, currently being progressed through Parliament, will have a significant impact on Keeping Children Safe. She also unpicks skilfully Ofsted's weaknesses in how safeguarding is inspected. Frank then considers the research published by the University of Manchester in October 2025, 'Lost learning: Prevalence, inequalities and outcomes of internal exclusion in mainstream secondary schools' by Emma Thornton, Qiqi Cheng, Ola Demkowicz and Neil Humphrey, which examines the reasons for isolation, who are more often given it and its impact on those students and those who are not. The results are surprising and challenging.You would expect us to say how good the chat is, but I suspect there is quite a lot in this discussion which would be of interest to many in schools, parents/carers and education leaders in general. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week the gents chat with Alex Howarth, a Director of a large accountancy business and proud father of three young girls. Stan kicks things off considering the use of 'case sampling' in the new Ofsted school inspection Framework. He's concerned with the approach and how it could lead to weak evaluations by inspectors. Alex then reflects on the shift to more practical mathematics contained in the Francis Curriculum Review. Frank then considers the importance of oracy in the future and how disappointing it is to see the emphasis on traditional examinations being maintained. He suggests this counters the shift for oracy to be an integral part of all subjects. The chat then considers the Engalnd cricket team's chances of regaining the Ashes this winter. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It is a pleasure to welcome Chris Zarraga the Director of Schools North East, the largest regional organisation supporting schools in the country. We also become aware that SNE also supports a number of special schools. We discuss the origins of SNE and Chris' career journey before we venture into what's caught Stan's eyes this week? He focuses on Martin's Law and the implications it has for school leadership. Chris then reflects on the importance of relationships and how this is always a key feature of the major events SNE organises. Frank then closes the chat by considering the insight offered by Sam Gibbs in a recent TES article considering what effective CPD for teachers may look like. It's a wide ranging chat with much reflection on previous experiences as senior leaders and why having a colleague or at least someone leaders can turn to when requiring personal and professional support. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The 18th Spotlight edition of the Frank and Stan Chat looks at assessment and what digital leadership involves when we chat with Rosie Clayton. Rosie, until recently, was a key player in the Re-Thinking Assessment Group and has recently moved into a senior role at the Transforming Learning Group. We consider the development of new approaches to assessment and the future role of AI. We also revisit the amazing work Rosie led on in creating a Learner Profile that provides a mechanism for a fuller range of skills, expertise, experiences, and interests to be recorded. https://rethinkingassessment.com/learner-profile/We then shift on to her new role and consider some of the challenges in progressing a digital shift at individual schools.A great chat. Hope you enjoy it. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Frank met Chris Jones, CEO of SMART Curriculum, a couple of years ago. We've been trying to secure a guest slot on the Frank and Stan Chat for a little while. He's a very busy man, so we are delighted to have him join us for what proves to be an illuminating and far-reaching discussion.Stan gets things rolling by questioning the central costs of trusts compared to those of the local authorities in the past. Chris is well-informed on such matters and explains that comparisons are tricky because the actual personal salaries are not made public. Frank considers the growth of specialist subject advisers on permanent contracts in central teams and wonders the merits of this approach.Chris then reflects on the encouraging news that more political parties including the government, want to strengthen the public perception of vocational pathways. Chris prefers to use the word 'professional' rather than 'vocational'. We then consider how important it is to view this issue across all phases of education, rather than it being seen as a Post-16 issue. Stan and Frank then gain valuable insights into the number of L2 and L3 courses available and the proportion that are 'vocational'.Frank closes the chat by reflecting on a paper he wrote this week about the School Curriculum Award and how it resonated with Chris' weekly newsletter that covered the curriculum and accountability developments in Estonia. Really interesting stuff, and makes clear to both Stan and Frank how fortunate they are to have such brilliant guests each week. It is some of the best professional development they experience and it's free!!!Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It is a great pleasure to have Dave Rzeznik, a former HMI for many years with a keen interest in the provision and outcomes of the most vulnerable pupils, join us as our guest this week. We have been trying to secure a slot with Dave for quite some time, so it is great to have time to discuss the things that have caught our eyes this week. Stan kicks off by considering the new role of the nominee being introduced by Ofsted as part of their attempt to de-escalate the tension felt during their inspections. Inevitably, Stan finds a gaping hole in their thinking. Dave then considers the best practice guidance being produced by the DfE to assist in the development of specialist special education needs provision. He believes there is a lot of good intention but a lack of expertise and funding to enable it to work well in all places. We also consider how particular schools and trusts may not be willing to share their expertise too much due to the risk it presents in losing their staff.Frank then reflects on the role of the Lay Inspector on the early versions of an Ofsted Framework and how they were meant to bring a non-education perspective on the evidence gathering. He believes there is value for school self evaluation in utilising a non-educationalist to consider how smoothly a school is working.There is a lot of chat about Frank's unwillingness to pay his way, which is grossly exaggerated but it is an enjoyable 30 or so minutes. We hope it has some uplift and benefit for your work.Enjoy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week the chat considers what it takes for an ambitious socially minded individual to leave a successful career to start up a not for profit organisation charged with encouraging more females into the tech world. This is what Chelsea Slater did when she created Liverpool Girl Geeks which in time became InnovateHer. Chelsea explains how an assembly in her secondary school made her realise she wanted to get into studying media. This took her towards university and then into a digital business where she noticed there were very few females. That's the journey towards her CEO role at InnovateHer. Chelsea was at the Labour Party Conference this week discussing and leading roundtables on the potential of InnovateHer in addressing a growing need for more digitally aware young people and adults.Stan considers the importance of comparing schools by taking into account their context, Chelsea then gives more details on the government's Digital Taskforce before Frank reflects on the high quality care he received at Stepping Hill Hospital this week and why are 30% of secondary headteachers leaving their posts within three years. It isn't quite as easy to explain.Enjoy! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are delighted to welcome back Ian Coulson, a former Headteacher and now a school improvement adviser. He was previously a guest in December 2020 when he was managing the trials and tribulations of DfE guidance for school leaders during the Covid pandemic. He is now the Founder of Teaching Made Simple Ltd, an advisory organisation for schools. He is at pains to explain he doesn't believe teaching is simple, but by trying to focus on the most important things, it can be made more manageable.Stan gets things rolling by reflecting on the Good Hearts Law which ostensibly is “When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.” In other words, when we set one specific goal, people will tend to push towards that objective regardless of the consequences. This leads to problems when they neglect other equally important aspects of a situation.Ian then reflects on how he used self evaluation as a tool for improvement and why he believes it remains a key element of improvement. He also notes how Ofsted's new Framework references it without explaining its importance, particularly during the initial call with inspectors.Frank finishes the chat by considering the importance of community and why trust/school leaders need to step up to play a leading role in the elements that can affect children and young people's learning. He references an amazing conference he attended last week organised by Forum Strategy.It's a fascinating chat, or at least it was for the two regular gents.Enjoy! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are so fortunate to have highly regarded experts in their field who come along to be a guest on our chat. This week is a good example. The two gents are joined by Dr Ronda Zelezny-Green, the Chair of the Board at InnovateHer, as well as a digital changemaker creating social learning systems to empower Black people, women, people with disabilities, and others who may be marginalised in the technology and education sectors. She has nearly 20 years of professional experience spanning five continents from the public, private, and civil society sectors. A Black and Indigenous woman excelling with ADHD, Ronda also has extensive experience in delivering racial equity and justice and gender with global perspectives. This week, she draws attention to some recent research from the LSE into Generative AI and how it is being used by young people and influencing their parents and carers. She encourages us to consider how well AI is being deployed in England's schools. Stan and Frank reflect on how Ofsted's new Toolkit could be used (with care) for improving school self-evaluation and how inspectors are reacting to the webinars the inspectorate has recently organised. The statement Frank reads out may not be reflective of all who attend, but it is not the only negative report. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This special SPOTLIGHT considers how human resources has changed over the years. Frank and Stan are fortunate to be able to chat with Juliet Caunt, a former Director of People in a large multi-academy trust and who now offers consultancy to a wide range of organisations. We consider how the role of HR has changed over the years, some of the difficulties senior managers experience and how HR professionals help all parties. We also reflect on how Juliet extended HR services in a rapidly growing trust as well as consider some research she is currently undertaking into how trusts use staff benefits to improve retention and recruitment. It's a good 'un. Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Frank and Stan have been working hard to secure a slot in Paul Cherpeau's diary for close on a year. As the CEO of the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce he's a very busy colleague. Frank and Paul are members of the independent Liverpool Education Board and have discussed how best to improve the employability of young people in the city on many occasions. The chat does not disappoint as Paul explains how the Chamber works to support local businesses in the Liverpool City Region by providing a strong networking community, advocating for their interests with government bodies, offering business support services like international trade assistance and skills development, and promoting inward investment to foster economic growth and create jobs. The Chamber understands its wider role in ensuring local people gain the knowledge, skills and attitudes to enter employment as well as to have an enjoyable and fulfilling life. Paul was at Everton FC's new stadium yesterday, celebrating 175 years of the Chamber in the city with the Princess Royal. He explains how the Chamber has evolved and is continuing to play a crucial role in regenerating the city. He has some interesting insights into the role of entrepreneurship and how those who become successful without formal qualifications are important but they are the exception rather than the rule.It's a fascinating chat. We are convinced many will gain a deeper understanding of the importance of effective business and education engagement for citizens of all ages.He's agreed to come back in 2026. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well, who would have predicted the weekly Frank and Stan Chat would reach its seventh academic year. Back in May 2020, the two gents were unable to meet for a beer, so decided to chat using Zoom and press the record button as a means of saving our thoughts on the ongoing pandemic. Putting it on Youtube without knowing what we were doing enabled viewers to watch and follow. We are now at edition 231, with a further 16 specialist SPOTLIGHT editions so we are getting close to 250! With guests lined up into 2026, all being well, we will be heading towards 300 by the end of 2026.We are privileged to be joined by Dennis Sherwood for this edition. Dennis was our first SPOTLIGHT guest in July 2023. It was one of the most interesting yet deeply worrying editions because he explained how and when he started to lose confidence in the work of OFQUAL. Look it up.Dennis explains how he has felt while students have recently received their external national examination results and why he feels so disappointed with OFQUAL especially the complaint system. Stan then considers the calculation that by the not so new Behaviour Tzar that the Behaviour crisis 'means every pupil loses 45 days of learning a year'. Frank then considers whether the focus on Islamist terrorism is the right one for the Prevent programme and for the recent Ofsted training when the DfE's own data suggests something rather different.Topical and challenging. Hope you enjoy it. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The final weekly Frank and Stan Chat chat of the 2024-2025 academic year sees Lisa Lea-Weston return to discuss what's caught her eye this week as well as update us on her work on supervision, Lisa was a guest last year and made a very positive impression in the focus her work provides on supporting senior leaders. Interestingly, the focus of her work is now developing to offer supervision to make more staff, with different levels of responsibility, across schools and trusts. Our chat considers how much senior education leaders in government and those in parliament at high office might benefit from some supervision support. If you know that this is currently offered please let us know.Stan reflects on the television series "House' which stars Hugh Laurie and considers whether the diagnostic approach he uses in his imaginary role might be useful for resolving some engrained education issues. Frank then considers the differences he has noticed in how education in Finland is offered, how it creates a high skilled and highly valued profession for the most able and talented. Lisa reflects on the changing nature of the support she is offering and how it is evenly split between those who are currently experiencing high levels of distress as opposed to those who want to identify an approach that can help them cope better with challenges when they emerge.It's a cracking chat and emphasises once again how fortunate we are to have such wonderful guests who offer some of the best free professional development for us and we hope for the viewers and listeners.We will be recording three SPOTLIGHT editions of our chat in the next few weeks covering Tutoring, Human Resources and the accuracy of our examination system (or not) and will release these during August and early September. We are back on the weekly chat for 2025-2026 on 10th September.Best wishesFrank and Stan Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week we are delighted to have John Malynn OBE, a former senior Civil Servant at the DfE and Ofsted joining us. He is well versed in the delicate discussions that take place, often behind closed doors, in ensuring policy is converted into practice. With some major policy changes this week being announced by the government concerning welfare reform, he is well placed to comment.Stan starts proceedings by reflecting on some Y6 pupils he saw locally wearing their 'Leavers 2025' sweatshirts and wondered whether this was signalling too early that the end of their Primary phase of education was now over. We consider how best to use the time between the end of the SATs period and the close of the academic year and whether the examinations are simply unacceptable in terms of providing a balanced education experience.John then reflects on the challenges the Labour government has faced and wonders whether Sir Simon Case was correct when he recently identfied a lack of clarity on the communication front. With an important shift in the welfare reforms this week John wonders whether there is sufficient clarity on what the education reforms are and whether there has been sufficient listening to those delivering the service. Having a large parliamentary majority is clearly not enough to win all arguments.Frank then considers an interesting report from EPI this week called 'Post 16 study programmes – understanding student choices and aspirations'. The report considers the pathways taken by students who were subject to Centre Assessed Grades (CAGs) during Covid. They recommend that 'GCSE English and maths results below grade 4 should only restrict access to level 3 courses where key elements of students’ main study programme are dependent on proficiency to this level' and that many students wanted flexibility in the structure and choices of courses. This presents challenges for the T Level moving forward.The chat ends with us all reflecting on the turmoil at Ofsted and whether there is effective communication from senior managers. All three of us had worked with a former HMCI who was willing to front-up and was rooted in inspection methodology. We felt that this experience and focus might be the missing ingredient.Enjoy! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week the two gents welcome back Rebecca Smith, a Headteacher in a large secondary school in Greater Manchester. Rebecca has been a guest a few times before and was a guest on our 100th edition of the chat in April 2022 alongside Prof Andy Hargreaves and her husband Neil Smith. Frank worked closely with Rebecca when she was a principal at one of the Coop Trust academies, where he witnessed her amazing leadership skills in turning around a school, that was fairly dysfunctional, into an amazing place for young people to learn and for amazing staff to teach.The chat starts with Stan considering how best to keep experienced staff invigorated and enthused about their job. He compares how this is tackled in education compared to football. He wonders whether secondments are the answer. Rebecca explains how she undertakes this challenge in her own setting and then considers the challenges that come from outside of the role and how this affects different staff in different ways.Rebecca then reflects on an article last Sunday in a newspaper which explained how a Boarding school was reverting to giving young boarders access to a landline rather than provide free access to their smart phones. We then consider how effective any approaches that ban use during the school day (as in nearly all schools) where control of their use is unfettered in some households.Frank then considers the challenges that are looming for school leaders in a lack of timeliness from the government. He reflects on the Covid period when guidance from the DfE usually arrived at 6pm on a Friday and then had to be considered and then shared by school leaders with staff in good time for the following week. With delays to the publication of the KCSIE guidance, delays to Ofsted Framework proposals and uncertainty over the timing of the Francis Curriculum Review it is going to be a very challenging autumn term. He notes that Leicestershire schools start their summer break in two week's time!It's a relaxed and enjoyable chat for us. We hope it is useful and interesting for the viewers/listeners. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A few years after Frank and Stan started their teaching careers they became aware of an education author called Pie Corbett. As there was very little guidance in the area of reading and writing Pie's books became a staple diet for professional development. Now, with over 200 publications, including the seminal 'Talk for Writing' and 'Cats, Hats and Hippos', Pie's extensive and varied career makes him an excellent guest. He doesn't disappoint.Stan considers his wonderful holiday last week which gave him time to reflect on leadership in sport. He mourns the loss of enigmatic leaders and considers how some current managers often lack the clarity of thought and individual approach. Pie then considers a wonderful visit he made to a Primary school in Handsworth where under fresh leadership the school has been transformed. He explains how attention to detail and a consistent personal approach has led to a dramatic improvement in children's experiences and outcomes. Frank closes the chat by considering how important key teachers were in his time at school and how one in particular, Dave Milne, made history relevant, fun and interesting. As it was World Teacher Day it seemed an appropriate way to reflect on the amazing teachers we have been fortunate to work with and observe. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, with Stan away on holiday enjoying some very hot weather, Frank is joined by Nic Ponsford CEO of the GEC Collective. The GEC is a global community of inclusion and well-being change-makers focused on education, empowerment, and equipping schools and organizations to create more inclusive and equitable environments. They utilize a digital platform and a network of experts to offer resources, data, and action plans to promote diversity and inclusion. This week they published their fascinating report '26000 Voices' so our chat includes a review of some of the findings. It also covers the fascinating career path Nic has engaged in and considers her nervousness as she preps for her Phd viva next week. The chat reflects on the importance of drawing on multiple evidence and data sources to ensure a clear and broad picture is gained of issues children, young people, parents/carers and staff experience. Nic calls this a kaleidoscopic picture. We also discover how some schools in the USA are currently having to traverse the new administration's view on diversity and inclusion and we finish off with consideration of some data analysis undertaken by FFT regarding how many pupils have been affected in Private schools by the government's change on VAT.Hope you enjoy it. We did! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A riveting, well-informed and insightful chat with Kevin Edward Turner MBE, co-founder and co-artistic director of Company Chameleon, a highly regarded contemporary dance company based in Manchester. Kevin was a student of Frank's when he was a headteacher and re-connected in 2018 when Company Chameleon undertook dance workshops in some of the Coop's academies in Greater Manchester. Kevin explains how his life was transformed and given purpose when the Northern Ballet Theatre Company provided a dance residence at the primary school he was attending. His obvious talent was seen immediately and fostered through the Trafford Dance Group, headed by the amazing Linda Coles. He created Company Chameleon in 2006 and it has grown from strength to strength. he's soon to accompany the dance company on a trip to Japan as part of the UK deputation for the World Expo. He is an inspiration.But his life has been challenging especially when he faced serious mental health issues. The chat covers these and considers how important an active and vibrant arts curriculum is for all pupils and why this is sadly lacking in some schools. Stan reflects on a report published this week that makes clear how serious the drop in engagement is for students when they begin their secondary phase experience. We all offer some reasons for this. sadly, none of us were surprised by the findings.Kevin then reflects on the many years he has engaged with young people at 42nd Street, a charity offering mental health support to young people aged 16-25 years. Yesterday was his final session with the young people. Their response and gratitude for his work were very moving. Kevin also considers the impact of free access to education that exists in Scotland and why this is a powerful force for economic and personal development.Frank closes the chat with a reflection on the latest Sutton trust report that considers where social mobility is most successful. There appears to be a clear link between economic opportunities and the chances of achieving strong improvement in social mobility. He considers the lack of funding for FE and adult education and why the Early Years funding is important in that it supports parents/carers as well as the children.It's a belting chat. We are incredibly proud to be able to chat for around 50 minutes with such inspiring guests. Please share the video with others. The messages about the arts, curriculum access and mental health are apposite. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Just the two gents this week and they consider governance, leadership and the 'fit and proper' test for football, rugby league and MAT leadership. With Salford City Reds facing a winding-up order for non-payment of taxes Stan considers how they got into this position while Frank considers the journey of his beloved Southend Utd which faced similar difficulties recently. They consider the importance of honesty and transparency in leadership and Frank is quick to highlight the work of Prof Marianne Jennings and her book The Seven Signs of Ethical Collapse'. By the way, she's agreed to join our chat, we just need to pin down a date.Frank then reflects on the recent chats with Rebecca Hanson and Aelwyn Pugh and explains why they were so impactful. The chat then considers CEO salaries and the redundancies one high profile MAT is facing and why it feels wrong when senior leaders earn so much.We hope you enjoy it. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Every now and again Frank and Stan give full rein to our guest, especially if they want to share some insight that is challenging or even provocative. This is what happened when Aelwyn Pugh, a former highly experienced HMI joined us again for our weekly chat. Aelwyn had prepared a carefully considered his thoughts on the issue of social mobility and how it had enabled him to progress. He also reflected on the type of education he received and how it enabled him to challenge orthodoxy and helped him to better understand the world. He considers how Germany undertook a deeper soul-searching of their past and how this has ensured they view the world in a more rounded way. Throughout the chat Aelwyn is mindful of the vital role education plays in guiding and supporting young people. He is highly critical of some who view this important role as purely an examination machine. For him, education is so much more. It is a highly thoughtful chat with Aelwyn offering a compelling view of past education mistakes and how things can be improved. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.