Gardens of Earthly Delight

Kate Hinkens had been dealing with Lyme disease since she was seven years old. After years of misdiagnosis, relapse, and months of intravenous antibiotics that left her sleeping eighteen hours a day and unable to finish a sentence, she found her way to bee venom therapy - ordering bees online, standing in her bathroom with tweezers, and stinging herself until something shifted.Kate is now a beekeeper and bee venom therapy practitioner who teaches people how to self-administer BVT for chronic illness. In this episode we get into the biochemistry of why bee venom can do things antibiotics can't, what a low-histamine diet looks like during treatment, the full medicine cabinet of the hive: honey, propolis, royal jelly, bee pollen, bee bread, the ethics of beekeeping, and what bees have to teach us about reciprocity with the natural world.TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Intro 01:28 Kate's Lyme disease history and years of misdiagnosis 03:17 Why Lyme is so hard to diagnose and treat 05:00 The antibiotic route and why it stopped working 08:25 Discovering bee venom therapy 10:00 The science: melittin, biofilms, and chronic Lyme 12:30 Apamin and the blood-brain barrier 14:00 Immune regulation and systemic inflammation 16:00 Diet and detox during BVT 19:00 Alpha-gal and the Lone Star tick 21:30 Andrew's own Lyme disease experience 23:00 Royal jelly, propolis, honey, bee pollen, and bee bread 32:00 The ethics of beekeeping and native bee populations 40:00 Does it matter what species of bee you use? 43:00 The honeybee's origins in North America 45:00 The ethics of using bees for BVT 49:00 Fun facts: how honey is actually made 54:00 How bees make decisions 57:00 The geometry of the honeycomb 59:00 The vibrational frequency of bees and healing 1:01:20 Kate's bee boxes and her BVT practice 1:02:41 How this deepened her connection to nature 1:05:07 Favorite food memoryCONNECT WITH KATE HINKENS Website: stinglab.orgInstagram: @katehinkensFOLLOW GARDENS OF EARTHLY DELIGHTSubstack: gardensofearthlydelight.substack.comInstagram: @gardensofearthlydelightpodPodcast: gardensofearthlydelight.com/subscribeMusic by: Constant SmilesLogo design by: Hunky Kitty ★ Support this podcast ★

Charles Dowding is something of a legendary gardener. He coined the term "no dig" and created an entire movement and method to home and market gardening - all focused on the health of the soil. Charles is the author of 16 books - his latest, "Grow Together" being released just yesterday, April 9, 2026.I visited Charles at his market garden, Home Acres, in late February and we covered a lot of ground. We get into how no dig began, what thirteen years of side-by-side dig versus no dig trials actually show in the soil data, and why he waited 20 years to write his first book. We also talk about humanure and a trial that produced surprising results, copper garden tools and the work of Viktor Schauberger, water memory, structuring devices on the hose, and a farmer in the Austrian Alps a hundred years ago who sang to his water and had the best crops in the region.It was an honor to visit Charles at his homestead, even being late February (perhaps the slowest time of year for a garden) it was still filled with life and growth. TIMESTAMPS:00:00 Intro/Origins of Gardening and Market Gardening Journey03:06 Discovering No Dig Gardening06:53 The Role of Cardboard in No Dig Gardening09:48 Addressing Purity in Gardening Practices11:41 Climate Change and Its Impact on Gardening14:13 Education and Transition to Full-Time Gardening16:05 The Benefits of No Dig Gardening18:26 Exploring Humanure in Gardening22:55 Comparative Trials in Gardening Practices26:15 Innovative Water Management in Agriculture32:25 The Distinction Between Farming and Market Gardening34:50 Nutrient Density and Soil Health37:06 Starting from Scratch: Soil Remediation Techniques38:26 The Spiritual Connection to Gardening43:29 The Power of Observation in Gardening46:16 Water Memory and Its Impact on Gardening51:21 Favorite and Least Favorite Crops & Favorite Food Memory53:58 New Book Release: Grow TogetherRESOURCES MENTIONEDCharles Dowding:Website: charlesdowding.co.ukNew book: Grow Together (DK, 2026)New Energies for Gardening by Charles DowdingBooks & People:Farmers of Forty Centuries by F.H. KingThe Fourth Phase of Water by Gerald PollackViktor Schauberger - Comprehend and Copy Nature DocumentaryRudolf SteinerPaul StametsCONNECT WITH CHARLES DOWDING Website: charlesdowding.co.uk YouTube: @CharlesDowding1nodig Instagram: @charles_dowdingFacebook: facebook.com/CharlesDowdingNoDigGardeningSubstack: substack.com/@charlesdowding549359FOLLOW GARDENS OF EARTHLY DELIGHTSubstack: gardensofearthlydelight.substack.comInstagram: @gardensofearthlydelightpodPodcast: gardensofearthlydelight.com/subscribeMusic by: Constant SmilesLogo design by: Hunky Kitty ★ Support this podcast ★

Sophie Strand is a writer and author of The Flowering Wand: Rewilding the Sacred Masculine, The Madonna Secret, and her most recent book, a memoir called The Body Is a Doorway. She lives in the Hudson Valley in upstate New York where she writes about mythology, ecology, and the intersection between storytelling and the more-than-human world.This conversation spans a lot of ground. We talk about what it means to be from a place versus being of a place, Tom Bombadil and what Lord of the Rings has to teach us about ecology, communicating with plants through dreams, the concept of pharmacon and the problems with how we use psychedelics, making good soil as both metaphor and practice, and how Sophie's experience with chronic illness has deepened her relationship with the natural world.A brief note: This conversation includes some discussion of drug use and psychedelics in the context of plant medicine and healing.TIMESTAMPS00:00 - The Hudson Valley as savior 04:42 - Being from a place vs. being of a place 06:38 - Human beings as peripatetic wanderers 09:07 - Sardinian throat singing and inherited traditions 11:16 - Eucatastrophe: the happy disaster 15:31 - Tom Bombadil and ecological wisdom 19:26 - Communicating with plants 20:13 - Dreams as messages from plants 22:23 - Dreams come from a place 27:34 - Being an instrument played by fungi 28:51 - Naming and ownership 35:25 - Hopi language and present tense 37:09 - Telepathic communication as wordless 39:24 - Psychedelics and plant medicine 41:17 - Pharmacon: potion and poison 43:10 - Our culture of addiction 46:39 - Ayahuasca and ego death 50:39 - Creating communities that honor intuition 54:31 - Aphids, ladybugs, and observation 56:41 - Make me good soil 57:21 - Degenerative connective tissue disease 59:36 - Soil as tomb and womb 01:01:44 - Nature and healing 01:07:18 - The blue heron as messenger 01:09:36 - Favorite food memory: apples and cheddarRESOURCES MENTIONEDSophie Strand:Substack: Make Me Good SoilBooks: The Flowering Wand: Rewilding the Sacred Masculine, The Madonna Secret, The Body Is a DoorwayBooks & Media:Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. TolkienThe Telepathy Tapes podcastLandmarks by Robert McFarlaneTime and Again (speculative fiction book)The Never-Ending Story (film)People Mentioned:Tom Bombadil (Lord of the Rings character)C.S. LewisJames Hillman (mythopoetic thinker)Patricia Kaishian (mycologist and writer)Places:Hudson Valley, New YorkOverlook MountainAshokan ReservoirWoodstock, New YorkConcepts:Eucatastrophe (Tolkien)Pharmacon (Greek concept)Mycorrhizal fungiHealthismCONNECT WITH SOPHIE STRANDWebsite: sophiestrand.comSubstack: Make Me Good SoilInstagram: @cosmogyny  Books: The Flowering Wand, The Madonna Secret, The Body Is a DoorwayFOLLOW GARDENS OF EARTHLY DELIGHTSubstack: gardensofearthlydelight.substack.com Instagram: @gardensofearthlydelightpod Podcast: gardensofearthlydelight.com/subscribeMusic by: Constant Smiles Logo design by: Hunky Kitty ★ Support this podcast ★

Henrietta Lovell is the founder of Rare Tea Company and is known as the Rare Tea Lady. In the late 1990s, she was working in corporate finance, until a trip to China and a $50 pot of oolong changed everything. She fell in love with tea, not the industrial tea bag she grew up drinking in England, but tea crafted by farmers from specific places with terroir as complex as wine.For over 20 years, she's worked directly with farmers who grow tea organically and regeneratively, paying them what their work is actually worth. She runs the Rare Charity, where tea communities decide how funds are used - primarily putting kids through university who would otherwise have no access to higher education. She supplies tea to Michelin-starred restaurants around the world and has built her entire life around the belief that if you look for great flavor and know where it comes from, you can change communities while filling your life with pleasure.I joined Henrietta at the Rare Tea Company headquarters in London where we enjoyed incredible teas on a rainy afternoon. We talk in depth about camellia sinensis (tea), how the British stole it from China and grew it across their empire, the exploitation built into most of the tea industry, the 15 million people working in tea and mostly living in poverty, organic farming versus certification, bed tea as a morning meditation, and making rhubarb fool in her grandmother's Scottish kitchen."Healthy soil is healthy mankind. It's not just us who drink the end product. It's the people who grow it and the communities around where it grows. It does matter."TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Falling in love with tea in China 03:15 - The $50 pot of oolong that changed everything 07:30 - Tea comes from one plant: Camellia sinensis 10:45 - How the British stole tea from China 15:20 - Corporate finance escape: "I can't wait until retirement" 18:40 - Starting Rare Tea Company with naivety and stupidity 22:15 - Meeting the first tea farmer in Fuding, China 26:30 - The exploitation built into industrial tea 31:45 - 15 million people work in tea, most are women in poverty 35:20 - Why we don't know where our tea comes from 39:10 - Direct trade: Paying farmers what tea is worth 43:25 - The Rare Charity: Education chosen by communities 47:50 - Why only 20% of charity revenue goes to admin 51:15 - From seed to cup: The tea growing process 56:40 - White tea, green tea, oolong, black tea, pu-erh 62:20 - Why organic certification is complex for small farmers 67:10 - Temperature, timing, and the art of making tea 71:45 - The 90-second rule for flavor extraction 75:30 - L-theanine: Why tea gives calm energy vs. coffee's crash 79:15 - Bed tea as morning meditation 82:40 - Tea cocktails: Quick extractions with alcohol 86:20 - The nun who made tea as meditation 90:15 - Favorite food memory: Rhubarb fool in Scotland 93:45 - Healthy soil, healthy communitiesRESOURCES MENTIONEDRare Tea Company:Website: rareteacompany.comInstagram: @rareteacompanyThe Rare Charity: rarecharity.comTea Regions Mentioned:Fuding, Fujian Province, China (white tea)Wuyi Mountains, China (oolong)Anxi, Fujian Province, China (Tie Guan Yin oolong)Kagoshima, Japan (gyokuro from Sakamoto-san)Nepal (high mountain green teas)Malawi, East Africa (second biggest export)India (Assam region)Tea Varieties Discussed:White Silver Needle (Bai Hao Yin Zhen)Tiger Oolong of Mercy (Tie Guan Yin)Da Hong Pao (oolong)Gyokuro (Japanese green tea)Matcha (ground green tea)Hojicha, Sencha, Genmaicha (Japanese teas)English Breakfast (blend)Pu-erh (fermented tea)CONNECT WITH HENRIETTA LOVELL Instagram: @raretealadyFOLLOW GARDENS OF EARTHLY DELIGHTSubstack: gardensofearthlydelight.substack.comInstagram: @gardensofearthlydelightpodPodcast: gardensofearthlydelight.com/subscribeMusic by Constant SmilesLogo design by Hunky Kitty ★ Support this podcast ★

Kevin Espiritu is the founder of Epic Gardening, a media and product company that's become one of the largest gardening brands in the world. What started as a hobby blog about hydroponics in 2013 has grown into a business with millions of followers, major acquisitions including Botanical Interests Seeds and GrowVeg garden planner, and a team of dozens serving home gardeners globally.Kevin's journey started with online poker paying for college, a quarter-life crisis playing video games, and his mom asking him to pick a hobby with his brother. They chose gardening. He first started growing cucumbers and he hasn't stopped growing since.We talk about building an audience by responding to every single comment, the moment in 2020 when everything changed, acquiring a 30-year-old seed company to keep it from disappearing, why organic certification isn't always what people think, and moving from hydroponics to soil.But we also talk about what Kevin has mentioned briefly on his personal channels: the crash-out moment after years of running on pure will, the medication he never thought he'd need, the physical separation he had to create from the homestead that helped build the Epic empire, and why he turned to creating art - a new hobby with no tie to business."Every creator I know who's had a blow-up moment has had a crash-out moment afterwards. You run on pure will for maybe a year, maybe more. And then it all comes down on you." Kevin built something massive and meaningful that continues to grow.TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Why Kevin started posting gardening videos online 03:27 - From online poker to playing video games to gardening 05:04 - When gardening became therapeutic (7 years in) 07:00 - Seeing land transform over time 09:32 - 2020: When revenue exploded 6.5 times 10:30 - Meeting Jacques: The pumpkin avatar neighbor 12:54 - "Why do people keep calling me Eric?" 14:23 - Responding to every single comment until you can't 17:09 - Making millions from an online gardening blog 17:39 - Acquiring Botanical Interests Seeds 21:41 - How seed production actually works 22:50 - The reality of organic certification 26:47 - Why seed saving videos never do well 29:52 - Regenerative certified vs. organic 31:21 - Acquiring GrowVeg and Modern Farmer 35:52 - When Instagram blew up: The tripod problem 37:47 - The crash-out moment and needing medication 40:16 - Hiring help vs. staying lean 42:04 - Finding art as a pure hobby 44:23 - Leaving the homestead but staying close 47:03 - What's coming next for Epic 51:24 - Designing seed packets as an artist 52:08 - Favorite food memory: Rice with milkRESOURCES MENTIONEDEpic Gardening:Main website: epicgardening.comShop: shop.epicgardening.com/GOED (5% off anything with code GOED)YouTube: Epic Gardening (3.95M+ subscribers)Instagram: @epicgardeningBotanical Interests Seeds: botanicalinterests.comGrowVeg Garden Planner: growveg.comModern Farmer Magazine: modernfarmer.comThe Greenhouse Membership program (5% off with code GOED)Jacques Lyakov - Epic team member - Instagram and YoutubeMental Health Support: If you or someone you know is struggling with burnout, depression, or having thoughts of self-harm, help is available:988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: Call or text 988 (US)Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 (US)International resources: findahelpline.comCONNECT WITH KEVIN ESPIRITUPersonal YouTube: Kevin Espiritu Instagram: @kevinespiritu_Art Instagram: @rampfade FOLLOW GARDENS OF EARTHLY DELIGHTSubstack: gardensofearthlydelight.substack.comInstagram: @gardensofearthlydelightpodPodcast: gardensofearthlydelight.com/subscribeMusic by Constant SmilesLogo design by Hunky Kitty ★ Support this podcast ★

Darina Allen is a culinary pioneer, educator, and author who co-founded the Ballymaloe Cookery School in 1983 on a 100-acre organic farm in County Cork, Ireland. She has taught thousands of students from over 65 countries, written nearly 20 bestselling cookbooks, sparked Ireland's farmers' market movement, hosted the television series Simply Delicious, and leads the Slow Food community in East Cork. She was recently awarded an honorary doctorate from Munster Technological University.Darina's journey began when a chance meeting with her future mother-in-law, Myrtle Allen - a pioneer of Irish farm-to-table cooking - changed the course of her life. A week-long cooking course in Italy with Marcella Hazan, paid for with the last pennies in the bank, gave Darina the revelation that the solution to everything was underneath her feet: the beautiful Irish ingredients surrounding her on the farm.We talk about Myrtle Allen's revolutionary approach to Irish cuisine, the moment in an Italian market when Darina realized local ingredients should be more valuable (not less), how the cooking school was born out of desperation, why people are craving to relearn forgotten skills, the overwhelming response to her new Ballymaloe Organic Farm School, and the life-changing experience of making your first loaf of bread."Everything I did was out of desperation. The farm shop, the cooking school - all of it. But what joy to be doing something you love that brings so much joy to other people." Darina embodies what it means to pass on skills with generosity, patience, and the deep belief that cooking is one of the most important things you can learn.This conversation has been edited for clarity and length. For extended show notes with deeper analysis, subscribe to my Substack at gardensofearthlydelight.substack.com.TIMESTAMPS01:28 - Honorary doctorate and why cooking is an important skill  04:30 - Growing up wanting only to cook and garden  06:15 - Meeting Myrtle Allen: The woman who changed everything  10:38 - Myrtle's approach: No yelling, just teaching  13:18 - The energetics of food and cooking with joy  15:04 - The last pennies in the bank: Marcella Hazan in Italy  21:00 - The Nostrale revelation: When local became valuable  24:30 - Realizing Irish ingredients were as good as Italian  26:00 - "The solution is underneath our feet"  27:30 - Starting the cooking school out of desperation  31:23 - Why the farm makes Ballymaloe unique  36:00 - Students from 65+ countries learning on the farm  38:13 - The desperate need for skilled farm labor  39:04 - Which came first: farming or cooking?  39:30 - The homesteading phenomenon worldwide  41:05 - The CEO who made his first loaf of bread  42:00 - Launching the Ballymaloe Organic Farm School  44:39 - Teaching forgotten skills: From beekeeping to cheese-making  45:44 - Favorite food memory: Auntie Florence and raspberry bunsRESOURCES MENTIONED- Ballymaloe Cookery School- Ballymaloe House - Ballymaloe Organic Farm SchoolBooks:- Mastering the Art of French Cooking by Julia Child, Louisette Bertholle, and Simone Beck- Marcella Hazan's cookbooks- Darina Allen's cookbooksPeople Mentioned:- Myrtle Allen - Pioneer of Irish farm-to-table cuisine- Marcella Hazan - Italian cooking teacher and author- Matt Somerville - Wild bee expert- Dr. David Unwin and Dr. Jen Unwin - Type 2 diabetes specialistsTV:- Simply Delicious - Darina's television seriesOrganizations:- Slow Food East Cork - The Greenhorns (Young Agrarian Movement in America)CONNECT WITH DARINA ALLENInstagram: @darina_allen  FOLLOW GARDENS OF EARTHLY DELIGHTSubstack: gardensofearthlydelight.substack.comInstagram: @gardensofearthlydelightpodPodcast: gardensofearthlydelight.com/subscribeMusic by Constant SmilesLogo design by Hunky Kitty ★ Support this podcast ★

The Hopi Farmer Who Grew an 800-Year-Old SeedMichael Kotutwa JohnsonMichael Kotutwa Johnson is a 250th generation Hopi dry farmer and University of Arizona professor. His people have farmed the same land in northeastern Arizona for thousands of years - a place that receives only six inches of rain annually, with no irrigation and no pesticides. Michael once planted an 800-year-old corn seed discovered by an archaeologist in a cave near historical Hopi villages. It sprouted because seeds have memory. This corn remembered how to grow and knew that it was safe to grow in caring Hopi hands.We talk about what makes Hopi culture a collaboration of clans, planting with faith during extreme drought, the planting stick as both life and death, singing to your corn and giving plants high fives, treating seeds as children, reading biological indicators in the land, and the practice of holding seeds in your mouth before planting. Michael also shares how he roasts corn in seven-foot stone pits to preserve it for decades - real food security rooted in community, not individual accumulation."They're children to me. When they fall down, you pick them back up." Michael embodies what it means to be in true relationship with plants, seeds, soil, and the living world. Knowledge passed down through 250 generations that offers us a different model for resilience, adaptation, and agricultural practice.This has been condensed from a longer conversation. For extended show notes with deeper analysis and reflections, subscribe to my Substack at gardensofearthlydelight.substack.com.TIMESTAMPS00:00 - What makes Hopi Hopi: A collaboration of clans 04:10 - Hopi clan migrations and oral traditions 08:20 - Faith as the most important ingredient 11:57 - Lessons from grandfather: The planting stick as life and death 15:14 - Planting techniques: 6-18 inches deep without irrigation 17:30 - The intimacy of seed planting 20:53 - Reading biological indicators: How weeds predict the season 24:11 - The present moment in Hopi language and culture 26:24 - "Without corn, we are not Hopi" 29:17 - The role of women in Hopi agriculture 30:47 - Adapting to climate change the Hopi way 35:07 - The 800-year-old corn seed: Memory and adaptation 39:09 - The satisfaction of growing your own food 41:39 - Why regenerative agriculture matters 48:25 - Cultural significance of Hopi seeds 52:09 - The ethics of seed sharing 56:21 - Timing, acceptance, and nurturing 59:15 - Singing to plants and giving them high fives 1:00:55 - Food memory: Roasting corn in a seven-foot stone pitRESOURCES MENTIONEDBooks:Becoming Hopi - Hopi Culture Preservation Office Book of the Hopi by Frank WatersOrganizations & Programs:Native American Agriculture FundUniversity of Arizona Indigenous Resilience CenterHopi FoundationArticles & Features:"What 800-Year-Old Seeds Teach Us About Adaptation & Hope" - Good Food Finder"Michael Kotutwa Johnson: A Voice for Indigenous Agriculture" - Eos Magazine"Continuity of Hopi Agriculture" presentation (YouTube)CONNECT WITH MICHAEL KOTUTWA JOHNSONInstagram: @dr._hopi_farmerLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michael-kotutwa-johnson-phd-mpp-16542049University of Arizona: snre.arizona.edu/michael-kotutwa-johnsonFOLLOW GARDENS OF EARTHLY DELIGHTSubstack: gardensofearthlydelight.substack.comInstagram: @gardensofearthlydelightpodPodcast: gardensofearthlydelight.com/subscribeMusic by Constant SmilesLogo design by Hunky Kitty ★ Support this podcast ★

Bonus episode! I was recently invited as a guest on the Slow Food podcast. Slow Food is a global movement dedicated to preserving food biodiversity, supporting small-scale farmers, and connecting people to their food traditions. Being asked to join their conversation was truly an honor.In this episode with Valentina, I share my journey through 20 years of working on farms and gardens around the world, the spiritual and physical connection we have with soil, and those transformative wow moments that happen when we open ourselves to nature.We also discuss ancient practices like holding seeds in your mouth before planting - something I dive deeper into with my next guest, Michael Kotutwa Johnson, a 250th generation Hopi farmer and University of Arizona professor. That episode comes out next week on January 30th - stay tuned!TIMESTAMPS02:58 - First memory: pulling a carrot at age 4 04:30 - Light bulb moment in the pea field 06:20 - Building community through food 08:36 - Hare Krishna farm in Hawaii 10:30 - Spraying pesticides: the moment that changed everything 12:15 - Wow moments and spiritual connection to nature 20:05 - The chemical connection between body and soil 23:00 - Holding seeds in your mouth before planting 25:47 - Practical gardening tips for beginners 28:53 - Why I started Gardens of Earthly Delight 31:00 - How local farmers led to Italian citizenshipRESOURCES MENTIONEDWWOOF (Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms): Volunteering on organic farms around the worldSlow Food Farms: Find farms near you dedicated to agroecological practices and biodiversityWonderful Escapes: The farm I am living on this winter (with the miniature donkeys!)FOLLOW & SUPPORT SLOW FOODSlow Food CommunitiesMake a Donation to Slow FoodFollow on InstagramFOLLOW & SUPPORT GARDENS OF EARTHLY DELIGHTSubstack: gardensofearthlydelight.substack.comInstagram: @gardensofearthlydelightpodPodcast: gardensofearthlydelight.com/subscribeDonate: buymeacoffee.com/gardens Photo of Trevor credit: Alexander PomperMusic by Constant SmilesLogo design by Hunky Kitty ★ Support this podcast ★

Cheese Is Not A Human InventionTrevor Warmedahl (Milk Trekker)Trevor Warmedahl, also known as Milk Trekker, is a nomadic cheesemaker, teacher, and author who travels the world documenting endangered cheese-making practices from rural pastoral communities. He won the Daphne Zepos Teaching Award in 2022 and teaches through his Sour Milk School. His book, Cheese Trekking: How Microbes, Landscapes, Livestock, and Human Cultures Shape Terroir, comes out February 17th, 2026 with Chelsea Green Publishing.Recorded in Bra, Italy during the Slow Food cheese festival, Trevor and I explore why cheese is milk's natural destiny, not a human invention. We dive into the ethical realities of dairy, the influence of David Asher's book, how industrial starter cultures are like buying seeds from Monsanto, the profound practice of transhumance, raw milk safety debates, microbial diversity, terroir, and what the future holds for American cheesemakers."Cheese is really milk fulfilling its destiny." Trevor challenges the industrial model and shows us there's another way—one rooted in traditional wisdom, seasonal rhythms, and the infinite potential hidden in a pail of raw milk.This has been condensed from a two-hour conversation. For the full unedited version with more stories from Trevor's travels, subscribe to my Substack at gardensofearthlydelight.substack.com.TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Introduction 02:21 - Cheese is not a human invention 11:58 - The role of microbes in cheese making 13:38 - Fears and safety of natural cheese 22:02 - Cheese and microbes 29:05 - Cheese terroir and its complexity 36:36 - Aha moments in cheese making 44:38 - Tradition vs. innovation 48:18 - Transhumance: the art of seasonal migration 57:24 - The essential role of salt 1:02:25 - Favorite food memory 1:05:33 - Final thoughtsCONNECT WITH TREVORSubstack: milktrekker.substack.com Instagram: @milktrekker Book: Pre-order Cheese Trekking (out February 17, 2026) with Chelsea Green PublishingFOLLOW GARDENS OF EARTHLY DELIGHTSubstack: gardensofearthlydelight.substack.comInstagram: @gardensofearthlydelightpodPodcast: gardensofearthlydelight.com/subscribePhoto of Trevor credit: Alexander PomperMusic by Constant SmilesLogo design by Hunky Kitty ★ Support this podcast ★

Welcome to Garden of Earthly Delights. Here, we will be exploring our connection to earth through conversations with experts and celebrities who all have their own profound relationships with the natural world.If you feel like you've lost your connection to the earth, if you're looking to form a new connection, or if you're simply curious to hear some amazing stories, this podcast aims to inspire you to get outside and discover or rekindle your own unique connection with our living planet. ★ Support this podcast ★