Herding Squirrels

Lucas Liu is the Managing Director at Risecor, a boutique consulting firm specializing in M&A integration, carve-outs, exit readiness, and AI strategy for private equity firms and their portfolio companies. In this episode of Herding Squirrels, Lucas breaks down why so many integrations fall apart at the people level and what leaders can actually do about it before the cracks appear. If you’re navigating an acquisition, advising one, or leading a team through serious organizational change, this conversation is direct and practical.Guest BioLucas Liu is the Managing Director at Risecor, a boutique consulting firm focused on M&A integration and carve-outs, exit readiness, process optimization, data analytics, pricing strategy, and AI. He works primarily with private equity firms and their portfolio companies across middle market and enterprise transactions. Lucas has been on both sides of the integration table, advising the acquiring company and the company being sold.Find Lucas online: risecor.com Episode Highlights[00:02:01] Why communication breakdown is the most consistent failure in M&A integrations [00:05:30] "In the absence of fact, rumor becomes fact" — the virtual water cooler problem [00:07:59] Why integration leaders fail at communication (it's not bad intent, it's overload) [00:15:51] How to map power dynamics before close to avoid blind spots post-close [00:22:46] The influencer strategy: finding the people who hold the informal org chart [00:26:12] How AI is showing up in due diligence and integration management today [00:28:18] Why most "AI layoffs" are actually COVID overhiring cover storiesKey Insights* Overcommunicate, always: The number one failure Lucas sees across integrations is not a lack of competence but a lack of consistent communication. People who aren’t directly involved in the integration still need to know what’s happening, why it’s happening, and where things stand. You will never get complaints about too much information. You will always get complaints about silence. (00:04:16)* Rumor fills the void: When leaders go quiet, teams don’t go quiet. They speculate. The Slack channel you’re not in becomes the actual water cooler, and what gets said there is almost always worse than the truth. A weekly email, an updated FAQ page, a short all-hands update — these aren’t optional extras, they’re retention tools. (00:05:30)* First-time integration leaders are the hidden risk: Many of the people running integrations have never done one before. They’re also trying to keep their normal work moving, figuring out the new power structure, and trying to impress people whose names they barely know yet. Communication is the first thing that gets dropped when time runs out. That’s a leadership architecture problem, not a personal one. (00:07:59)* Map the power dynamics before close: Lucas goes in early specifically to understand who the new CEO is, what their style is, which team members from the acquired company will be retained in meaningful roles, and where the fault lines are likely to form. The more of that you understand before day one, the better positioned you are to move fast without breaking trust. (00:15:51)* The influencer is rarely the most senior person: Lucas asks every functional head the same question during due diligence: who on your team has the pulse of the organization, even if they’re not a manager? These are the people others informally look to, the ones who calm rooms or quietly derail initiatives. Knowing who they are, including them early, and tying their effort to visible rewards is one of the most underused retention levers in integration work. (00:22:46)* AI is a tool for integration management, not a headcount replacement: The practical use of AI right now in M&A is tracking integration plans, surfacing late deliverables, and automating status reports. It’s useful. But Lucas is clear: AI isn’t accountable. When something goes wrong, someone needs to own it, and that’s still a human. (00:27:43)* Most AI layoffs aren’t really about AI: Lucas’s read is that many companies framing layoffs as AI-driven efficiency are actually unwinding COVID-era overhiring. “AI” is the cover that gets you credit instead of criticism. The companies using AI well are using it to free up their people to do higher-value work, not to get rid of them. (00:28:18)Key Quotes“You’ll never get complaints about too much information, but you’ll always get complaints about I have no idea what’s going on.” — Lucas“In the absence of fact, rumor becomes fact” — Lucas“You ask the manager what they do and he’ll tell you five things. You ask the person what they do, they’ll tell you seven things, and only three of them match what the manager told you.” — Lucas“Change is about people. Regardless of how much technology is being used, how AI is being brought in — at the end of the day, it’s the people that are going to make it successful or not.” — LucasResources Mentioned* Risecor — risecor.com* Lucas Liu on LinkedIn This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit herdingsquirrels.substack.com

Andrew Matney is a finance, strategy, and M&A operator who has seen transactions from nearly every angle — lender, advisor, investor, and operator. In this episode of Herding Squirrels, he shares what gets missed when everyone is on their best behavior before the close, and why the real operating system of a founder-led business lives in decisions, not documents. If you’re navigating a post-close integration or thinking about how to prep a company for acquisition, this conversation will change what you look for.Guest BioAndrew Matney is a finance, strategy, and M&A operator whose career has followed a non-traditional path across commercial banking, investment banking, private equity, and technology-enabled industrials. He is currently a Founding Team Member, Chief of Staff, and Head of M&A at America’s Innovation Corporation (”AIC”), where he works at the intersection of acquisitions, operations, and the U.S. manufacturing base supporting the robotics and physical AI supply chain.Prior to AIC, Andrew was a Principal at Altus Capital Partners, focused on acquiring and building lower-middle-market industrial and manufacturing businesses. Earlier in his career, he held M&A advisory roles at Lincoln International and Park Sutton Advisors, and began his finance career in commercial banking at Wells Fargo and Capital Bank. Across these roles, Andrew has seen transactions from nearly every angle — lender, advisor, investor, board observer, and operator — giving him a practical perspective on what makes deals work after the close.His perspective centers on the human side of transactions: how founder-led companies actually make decisions, how trust is built during periods of change, and how to modernize a business without flattening what made it successful in the first place.Find Andrew online: LinkedInEpisode Highlights[00:00:47] Reading people under pressure: what acting, banking, and PE teach you that the other two don’t[00:02:05] What curated data rooms and management presentations can’t tell you[00:04:06] Where the operating system lives in a founder-led business vs. a carve-out or PE add-on[00:07:43] The risk of professionalizing away exactly what made the business worth buying[00:10:33] The three questions that reveal whether a founder truly has a number two[00:15:33] What post-close cracks actually look like and why diligence doesn’t catch them[00:17:46] Why the hardest thing to align on isn’t purchase price — it’s decision rights[00:21:17] One piece of advice for founders preparing to sell: start the people conversation before the deal forces itKey InsightsCurated packages lie by omission. Everything in a VDR and management presentation was put there on purpose. Reading a team means getting past the curated version and into what actually motivates, scares, and excites the people running the business. That’s the signal that predicts how a transition will land. (00:02:05)The operating system lives in the founder’s head. In founder-led lower middle market companies, a lot of institutional knowledge is not codified. Which customer pays slowly but is worth keeping. Which supplier needs a call, not an email. Which margin issue is real versus noise. Integration can’t start with a playbook. It has to start with: show me how this place actually works. (00:04:06)Professionalizing too fast destroys value. Move too quickly and you run the risk of standardizing away the exact thing that made the business valuable. The goal isn’t to flatten a company into a corporate template — it’s to preserve what works and make it teachable. (00:07:43)Founder gravity is not a process. Post-close, you discover what was real process versus what happened because the founder was in the room. That distinction matters enormously for who owns daily decisions once the founder steps back. (00:15:50)Decision rights cause more friction than purchase price. Everyone can agree in principle that the founder will keep running things. The collision happens the first time a real decision has to be made — who approves a key hire, who talks to the biggest customer, who owns pricing. A working agreement before close that names those moments explicitly prevents a lot of post-close pain. (00:17:46)Most tension is ambiguity, not bad intention. The friction that shows up at month three or four is usually not because someone is acting in bad faith. It’s because both sides thought the agreement meant something slightly different. The antidote is specificity before the decision arrives. (00:19:09)Prepare the team before the deal forces the conversation. Founders spend enormous energy cleaning financials and telling the growth story. The team is what carries the business after close. If the first time key employees understand the founder’s thinking is the day the deal is announced, you’ve already created unnecessary anxiety. (00:21:17)Key Quotes“In a deal room, everyone has a role. The founder wants certainty and respect. The buyer wants truth and downside protection. The banker wants momentum. The management team may be wondering whether they still have jobs.” — Andrew“Integration can’t start with ‘here’s our playbook.’ It has to start with ‘show me how this place actually works.’” — Andrew“The red flag is not a founder who’s tired. Most founders are tired by the time they sell. The red flag is a founder who wants the authority of staying without the responsibility of changing how the company makes decisions.” — Andrew“A lot of what diligence misses is not because people are hiding things. It’s because they don’t really have language for how the business works.” — AndrewResources MentionedAmerica’s Innovation Corporation — Andrew’s current company, focused on acquisitions in U.S. manufacturing, robotics, and physical AIAltus Capital Partners — lower-middle-market industrial and manufacturing private equity firm where Andrew was previously a PrincipalLincoln International — M&A advisory firm where Andrew held an earlier advisory rolePark Sutton Advisors — M&A advisory firm where Andrew held an earlier advisory roleAndrew Matney on LinkedInConcepts discussed: decision rights frameworks, working agreements pre-close, key man risk, founder gravity, institutional knowledge transferHerding Squirrels is a podcast about modern teams and change, where we uncover the nuts and bolts of what makes teams actually work. Subscribe wherever you listen, and leave a review if this conversation was useful. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit herdingsquirrels.substack.com

Guest BioKamran Jahanshahi is the President and Founder of PeakPoint Consulting, where he helps organizations navigate business transformation, operational excellence, digital strategy, AI adoption, and change management. He brings more than 25 years of leadership experience across Citibank, MetLife, Walgreens Boots Alliance, and his independent consulting work, with deep experience in M&A integration, target operating model design, Lean Management Systems, finance and technology transformation, global operations, and large-scale system implementations. Kamran has worked closely with CEOs, CFOs, CIOs, and senior leadership teams to turn strategy into execution, including shaping the target operating model for a $15.5 billion acquisition across 60 countries. Recently he has been writing and advising on AI adoption, including the need for AI operating models and Centers of Excellence that help organizations move beyond pilots toward redesigned work, stronger governance, and measurable business value. Outside of consulting, Kamran is an endurance athlete and active in nonprofit boards focused on expanding access to healthcare, education, jobs, and opportunity.Find Kamran online: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kamran-jahanshahi/ | peakpointconsulting.netEpisode Highlights[00:00:50] How a front-row seat to the Citi-Travelers merger turned Kamran into a change junkie for life[00:06:03] What it took to cut M&A integration cycle time from 24 months to 12 at Citibank Cards[00:08:35] The integration muscles most organizations don’t build until it’s too late[00:13:10] Why the operating model — people, processes, technology, governance, location — has to anchor every integration plan[00:17:09] Three leadership anchors that determine whether people actually follow during an integration: clarity, credibility, and line of sight[00:21:18] How silence and ambiguity create water cooler rumors that take on a life of their own[00:25:13] Why resistance to change is data, not a problem, and the pre-mortem practice that surfaces it before it costs youKey Insights* Integration fails at the connection, not the strategy. Deals rarely fall apart because the strategy was wrong. They fail when people cannot draw a line from the strategy to what they are being asked to do every day. Kamran saw this firsthand at Citi when two conflicting messages — cost cutting and customer experience — ran simultaneously with no integrated messaging to reconcile them. (00:03:03)* Build the muscles before you need them. Companies that treat acquisition as a strategic growth lever need to have playbooks, process maps, and identified leaders ready before a deal lands. The organizations that scramble to stand up an integration team after close are already behind. (00:11:03)* The operating model is the integration. People, processes, technology, governance, and location — these five elements are what actually has to combine. Knowing your target operating model before you close is what makes everything else executable. (00:13:10)* Clarity, credibility, and line of sight. These are the three things people need from leadership during an integration. Credibility in particular gets destroyed fast when what leaders say and what they measure are different things. People watch what you do, not what you say. (00:17:09)* Silence is not safety, it’s a rumor factory. When people don’t have answers about their jobs and their future, they fill the gap. Anxiety-driven speculation takes on its own life and pulls energy away from the work that needs to happen. (00:21:18)* Resistance is data. When people push back against change, they are not being difficult. They are signaling something they don’t know, don’t understand, or are afraid of losing. Treating that signal as information rather than resistance changes how you respond to it. (00:25:13)* The pre-mortem creates safety to say the hard thing. By asking teams to imagine the integration has already failed and to work backward, leaders get access to objections and fears that would never surface in a normal meeting. And it should not be a one-time exercise. (00:26:05)Key Quotes“Integration is not just a project plan. It’s truly a leadership test.” — Kamran“The process, the tools are easy to manage. You can redesign the process, you can bring in the best tools, but if you don’t get the people’s buy-in, and if the people don’t understand why you’re doing this, it doesn’t work.” — Kamran“To me, resistance to any change is data. It’s information.” — Kamran“Those anxiety-driven questions lead into water cooler rumors that then take their own life. And you find yourself managing a very unfounded set of stories instead of focusing on the job that needs to get done.” — KamranResources Mentioned* Peak Point Consulting: peakpointconsulting.net* Kamran on LinkedIn* Pre-mortem methodology (Gary Klein) — referenced as a tool for surfacing team fears before integration risk materializes* The MUM Effect — referenced by Brandon; the psychological tendency to withhold bad news, amplified by hierarchyAbout Herding SquirrelsHerding Squirrels is a podcast about modern teams and change, where we uncover the nuts and bolts of what makes teams actually work. New episodes drop every two weeks. Subscribe wherever you listen, and leave a review if this conversation was useful. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit herdingsquirrels.substack.com

Louie Celiberti is the founder of E27 Technology Solutions and spent over 15 years at Guggenheim Partners leading enterprise data and AI transformation at scale. In this episode of Herding Squirrels, he returns to share why most AI pilots fail not because of the technology but because of how organizations approach the work — and what a more deliberate, architecture-first model actually looks like. If your team is drowning in AI experiments that never seem to graduate into something real, this conversation will give you a clearer picture of what’s getting in the way and how to fix it.About LouieLouie Celiberti is the founder of E27 Technology Solutions and former Managing Director and Head of Software and Data Engineering at Guggenheim Partners, where he spent over 15 years leading enterprise data, cloud, and digital transformations. He focuses on helping organizations move beyond AI pilots through a pragmatic, architecture-first approach that balances immediate business value with long-term scalability. His work centers on designing modular, vendor-agnostic platforms and investment-optimized roadmaps that allow organizations to reuse capabilities and evolve their AI and data strategy over time.Find Louie online: e27technologysolutions.ioEpisode Highlights[00:01:00] The CTO shift from driver of innovation to shepherd of innovation[00:03:25] What engineering discipline gives technologists that most business teams still lack[00:08:13] The mutual mentorship model and why it makes cross-functional AI work stick[00:12:00] Slowing down to speed up: the thin-slice approach to AI implementation[00:18:06] Meeting people where they are: how emotional intelligence shapes AI adoption in resistant organizations[00:21:12] Why collaboration isn’t optional when AI moves this fast[00:23:45] The real reason AI pilots stall: hubris, missing context, and skipping the ecosystemKey Insights* The shepherd shift: The CTO role is no longer about generating innovation from the top — it is about harnessing innovation that now originates in the business. The business has always had the context. Engineers bring the discipline to make it scalable and sustainable. (00:01:00)* Engineering discipline is a cross-functional muscle: Technologists have spent decades sitting across every business unit, learning to see how things connect. That pattern recognition — the ability to spot reusability, shared risk, and downstream impact — is something most business teams have never been forced to develop. (00:03:25)* Mutual mentorship as the change mechanism: When everyone gets a turn to share what they know, they also become more willing to listen. That dynamic creates vested interest. People who contributed to an idea will advocate for it. That is not a soft concept — it is how you move faster without losing people. (00:08:13)* Thin slices, not big bets: The instinct under pressure is to find the one transformational use case and commit. What actually works is small, multi-dimensional starting points that touch multiple perspectives at once. Narrow enough to move quickly, wide enough to represent the whole system. (00:12:00)* Skills versus talents: Skills are learnable in isolation — tools, certifications, frameworks. Talents are different. Emotional intelligence, the ability to connect dots across disconnected conversations, genuine listening — those are the things that determine whether an AI program actually takes root. (00:21:12)* The ecosystem mistake: Organizations are treating pilots like proof of concept when they should be treating them like the foundation of a capability library. Spin up five or six use cases, extract the reusable components, and you have something to build from. Learn the lesson during the pilot, not after. (00:25:01)* Progress has to be felt, not counted: The people pushing hardest for speed are usually the ones farthest from the work. The fix is not more status reports — it is framing progress in terms that connect directly to what that audience cares about, especially revenue and risk. (00:16:24)Key Quotes“Being quick is great. Being deliberate and methodical is even better — and none of those things are slow.” — Louie“The smartest people will recognize what they don’t know once they start talking to everybody.” — Louie“Skills are things you can obtain in isolation. Talents are the less tangible characteristics that allow individuals and teams to succeed.” — Louie“Assume it’s going to work. It will work. The real question now is how do you implement so that you can build other things and make it sustainable.” — LouieResources Mentioned* E27 Technology Solutions — Louie’s firm: e27technologysolutions.io* Claude Code and Cursor — AI coding tools referenced for rapid prototype generation* Diffusion of Innovations curve — Referenced in discussion of AI adoption across organizational profiles (innovators, early majority, laggards)About Herding SquirrelsHerding Squirrels is a podcast about modern teams and change, where we uncover the nuts and bolts of what makes teams actually work. New episodes drop every two weeks. Subscribe wherever you listen, and leave a review if this conversation was useful. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit herdingsquirrels.substack.com

Post BodyStephen Szypulski leads post-acquisition integration at Fitch Learning, part of Fitch Group and Hearst Corporation, where the business serves more than 100,000 learners across over 100 countries. In this episode of Herding Squirrels, he walks through why so many M&A deals lose value after close, what actually breaks first when an integration plan meets reality, and why the work of integration is fundamentally about shepherding velocity without pushing the organization into shock. If you are leading change, integrating teams after an acquisition, or running an AI rollout that is starting to look like a merger, this conversation will give you a clearer way to think about people, culture, and the parts of the deal that never show up in the model.Guest BioStephen Szypulski is Head of Integration and Strategic Operations for Fitch Learning, part of Fitch Group and the Hearst Corporation. He leads post-acquisition integration for a global business serving more than 100,000 learners across 100+ countries, using integration as a driver of business transformation and long-term value creation. Before Fitch, Stephen held senior leadership roles at Bank of New York and Goldman Sachs, working on acquisitions including GreenSky and United Capital (RIA). He serves as an operating partner to management teams, integrating organizations, aligning commercial priorities, enabling technology, and building operating models that scale.Find Stephen online: LinkedInEpisode Highlights[00:00:50] How a politics major ended up running M&A integration at Goldman Sachs and why integrations are the impetus for transformation[00:02:18] What leaders get wrong in the first 72 hours after a deal closes[00:04:23] Why human capital challenges and commercial distraction surface immediately post-close and never appear in the deal model[00:05:52] The art of velocity, or how fast you can integrate without pushing the organization into shock[00:06:18] What you can actually learn about culture from behind the diligence wall before a deal closes[00:13:32] Why culture cannot be created overnight and how phased integration earns it instead[00:21:57] Why roughly 70% of M&A activity misses its targets and what that says about how integration as a discipline has evolved[00:23:47] What AI does to the integration playbook and why humans become orchestrators of systems, not executors of stepsKey Insights* Integration is structure, not a checklist. The most useful reframe in the conversation. Integration is bringing structure to chaos. It is guardrails, decision frameworks, and the work of shepherding velocity. The fifty boxes you can tick are scaffolding, not the job. (00:11:59)* The deal model never accounts for commercial distraction. Customer-facing teams slow down after close. Not because they want to. Because roles shift, products change, and people genuinely do not know who they report to or what to sell. Plan for the slowdown instead of pretending it will not happen. (00:05:27)* Culture is hard to measure from behind the diligence wall. You can read history, financials, attrition, and how an organization has handled past change. What you cannot see until after close is how a team really escalates, collaborates, and absorbs shock. Bake that uncertainty into your timeline. (00:06:18)* Velocity is the real lever. The job is to move fast enough to realize the value of the deal without pushing the organization into a state of shock that becomes disorder. Most timelines are too clean and too aggressive at the same time. (00:05:52)* Get clear about what you do not know. It is okay to enter the integration with unknowns. Build allowance into the timeline to do real diligence after close, ask good questions, and avoid making decisions that cannot be unwound. (00:17:04)* Retention is part contract and part signal. There are the structured tools, retention bonuses, role continuity, and contractual incentives. There are also the softer signals. Are you showing the people you acquired that you actually value them and the knowledge they carry. Both matter and one without the other tends to leak value. (00:18:50)* Integration work is relationship work. It touches every function and every geography, but at its core it is about how you build trust across cultures, translate between the C-suite and the frontline, and align teams around a common goal. The technical understanding matters. The relationship work is what makes it land. (00:20:41)* AI is the next integration. Bringing AI into an organization is integration work too. Systems, data, workflows, governance, and decision-making all have to come together. Going forward, the role of the integration leader becomes designing and governing those systems rather than executing each step manually, function by function. (00:24:42)Key Quotes“Integration is really about bringing structure to chaos. It is creating guardrails. It is creating decision frameworks. It is shepherding the velocity of the organization.” — Stephen“How do you move fast enough to realize the deal without pushing the organization into too much shock that it becomes disorder?” — Stephen“You have a good idea going into the deal as a part of the diligence phase. But you never really know what you get until you get to the other side.” — Stephen“It is okay to have integration unknowns that get figured out along the way.” — StephenResources Mentioned* BCG research on M&A failure rates (~70% of deals fall short of stated targets)* The integration-as-private-equity-operating-partner model* Stephen on LinkedIn — linkedin.com/in/stephenszypulskiAbout Herding SquirrelsHerding Squirrels is a podcast about modern teams and change, where we uncover the nuts and bolts of what makes teams actually work. New episodes drop every two weeks. Subscribe wherever you listen, and leave a review if this conversation was useful. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit herdingsquirrels.substack.com