Integrate or Die: a work technology podcast

Steve and Alexis talk with Guy Tourigny, HR Technology Implementation Leader at HRIZONS about using AI to build agentic HR applications.  We discuss the efficiency gains associated with these solutions along with the importance of not over automating a function that is focused on optimizing the value of humans. Some things we cover: • The value of agentic HR solutions that integrate data from different functional areas • Knowing when to switch from AI agents to human agents • Managing the risks when you rely on AI to interpret HR data policies instead of people We also learn that Steve’s concepts of AI are rooted in how Lieutenant Uhuru used computers in the original Star Trek.

Steve and Alexis talk with Richard Landers, Professor of Industrial Organizational Psychology at the University of Minnesota about building AI technology that is informed by psychological science.  We focus specifically on the use of AI to support candidate selection and employee development.  Some things we cover: The change management challenges caused by the rapid speed of AI innovation The challenge of building effective AI agents for tasks where effective human performance is poorly defined The risk of doing things because they are new and different but not necessarily better We also hear Steve share a tale from his childhood about his dad acting like a robot.

Steve and Alexis talk with Armen Berjikly, an early-stage investor in technology solutions at Emerson Collective about integrating human involvement into AI automated processes.  Armen is a computer scientist who built some of the first widely adopted natural language AI solutions applied to HR at Kenjoya (employee listening) and Better Up (coaching).  Some things we cover: The importance of investing in problem definition before investing in AI solutions • How AI can be used to understand and engage employees at all levels of the organization • Why we should resist the urge to give AI chatbots overly human personas We also hear Steve explain why using the term “artificial intelligence” to describe LLMs is like using the term “energy drink”  to describe caffeinated sugar water.

Steve and Alexis talk with Alec Levenson, Director and Senior Research Scientist at the USC Marshall Center for Effective Organizations about AI, data, and decision-making through the lens of organizational effectiveness. Alec brings an economist’s skepticism to the discussion, emphasizing the limits of data and technology when disconnected from real organizational questions.  Some things we cover: Why organizations repeatedly overestimate what data, analytics and AI alone can explain If fears over AI and job loss are more about personal perspective than huge disruptions in the labor market The danger of focusing on what technology can measure instead of what leaders need to know We also learn from Alexis why we do not use AI to land planes even though we could.

Steve and Alexis talk with Tim Gregory, VP of HR Transformation at Delta Air Lines about adoption and use of AI technology in large, complex global enterprise companies. We explore the challenges enterprise organizations face when using AI technology and discuss why the development of enterprise AI solutions follows a different timeline from consumer AI applications.  Some things we cover: The four levels of AI maturity within an enterprise organization Why fully agentic AI solutions may be developed faster in enterprise companies than outside of them Why skills management is a good training ground for using AI within an enterprise organization. Alexis also tells us what it is like to confused with a generative AI solution whose name sounds a lot like yours.

Steve starts season 3 of Integrate or Die interviewing co-host Alexis Fink about her experiences using AI technology as an HR leader in large, global organizations. She shares insights about the benefits and risks of using AI to change talent processes and decisions drawn from experience leading workforce analytics at Meta, Intel and Microsoft.  Some things we cover: Building “white box” vs “black box” solutions in a world where it is becoming easier to be misled by technology The value of rethinking business processes to accommodate new technological capabilities Why advancing your career often comes down to just doing new stuff on your own We also learn that Alexis is a past president.

Steve talks with Shonna Waters about coaching technology and employee development.  Shonna is a co-founder of Fractional Insights, a company that helps organization increase workforce performance and amplify employee potential by integrating technological capability, work design, and psychological science. Some of the things we cover + Using technology to increase self-awareness + The risk of over-automating employee development and coaching + The concept of “cognitive load”, and how technology can help or hinder our ability to manage it effectively   We also learn how little time we spend practicing to become better at our jobs. 

Steve talks with Russell Klosk about workforce planning, what it means to do it well, and how technology is changing how it is done.  Russell is a Managing Director at Deloitte and author of a new book on workforce planning called Talent Prophecy. He has helped hundreds of companies build strategies that ensure their workforce can support their strategic goals while meeting their financial objectives. Some of the things we cover + Understanding how workforce planning impacts long-term growth and near-term performance + The need to incorporate non-HR data into workforce plans from finance, procurement and supply chain operations. + How technology is enabling companies to shift from reactive, descriptive workforce planning to proactive and planful strategic forecasting   We also learn what it means to have a workforce planning digital twin.

Steve talks with Muriel Clauson about building HR technology focused on supporting frontline, “deskless” workers. Muriel is the founder and CEO of Anthill, a company that builds technology to engage and retain distributed, frontline workforces. Some things we cover: + What makes the frontline employee experience distinct and why it is often overlooked + Value gained by establishing better lines of communication with frontline employees  + The unique challenges of being a frontline manager   We also learn why many frontline jobs are not likely to be replaced by AI.

Steve talks with Karie Willyerd about how technology is and is not changing the field of learning and development. Karie’s career is focused on building workforce capabilities whether as a Chief Learning Officer, a  start-up entrepreneur, or an author of multiple award-winning books on career development and workforce trends.  Some of the things we cover + How to get budget to invest in learning technology + The importance of customers holding vendors accountable for technology integration + The changing but critical role people play in the learning process   We also learn why the old saying “practice makes perfect” is often wrong.

Steve talks with Jeroen Van Hautte about using technology to analyze skill requirements with organizations. Jeroen is the CTO and co-founder of Tech Wolf, a technology solution that helps organization understand and manage the capabilities of their workforce. Some of the things we cover + The importance of being clear on what you want technology solutions to do + The value of approaching HR problems from an engineering perspective + Why it is useful to view technology from a functionally agnostic perspective   We also learn how to turn a student project into a fast-growing global company.

Steve talks with Jason Corsello about the role of venture capital plays in driving innovation in HR technology. Jason is a founding partner of Acadian Ventures, a company focused on early investment in work technology companies.  Some things we cover  + Why we are set for a major transformation in the HR technology landscape in the coming years + What venture capital firms look for when they are deciding whether to fund a company + Why it is often not a good idea for entrepreneurs to seek venture capital funding We also learn what early career experiences help people develop the skills needed to be successful start-up leaders.

Steve talks with Jai Shah about building HR technology solutions where mistakes could have life threatening consequences. Jai is the CEO and founder of Kahuna, a company that makes solutions to assess proficiency and certify qualifications for jobs requiring specialized skills. Jai has spent his career helping companies use technology to manage complex workflows, employment regulations and scheduling requirements primarily in the energy, manufacturing and healthcare industries. Some of the things we cover + Why the devil is in the details when it comes to assessing skills proficiency + How to win the support of operational business leaders when building solutions that directly impact their jobs and employees + The critical role integration plays when building high stakes solutions   We also learn why time in the field with employees is gold for HR technology designers

Steve talks with David Verhaag about adoption and renewal of HR technology solutions. Dave is Chief Customer Officer for Arist, a company that makes technology supporting employee learning and enablement. His career has focused on working with customers to ensure they get value from cloud HR technology solutions. Some of the things we cover: + Why customer success functions that sell software license renewals should be compensated differently from sales functions. + What customers should ask HR tech vendors during the sales cycle about solution adoption. + Why time to value is more important than people realize.   We also learn the benefits of small steps over big steps. 

Steve talks with Tony Ashton about workforce analytics technology.  Tony is Chief Product Officer at One Model, a people analytics software company. Tony is a pioneer in the field of workforce analytics having built some of the first global, cloud based people analytics technology solutions. Some of the things we cover + How the advent of hyper-scaler cloud technology platforms is transforming the field of workforce analytics + The cultural impact that results when companies start using HR data to make business decisions + The value of plugging things in versus building them yourself We also learn why trying to build your own workforce analytics tool is like trying to build your own GPS mapping tool.

Steve talks with Christopher Lind about using technology to enable employee learning and workforce transformation. Chris is a former Chief Learning Office who began his career as an educational psychologist and computer programmer. He also studies and writes extensively on how AI technology is impacting work and society. Some of the things we cover: + Focusing learning strategies on impacting results instead of building knowledge + Aligning HR support functions with the businesses they are supporting + How AI enabled skills ontologies are changing how companies support employee learning We also learn what it means to be an AI ethicist. 

Steve talks with Pierre Rousseau about the challenges of managing software integrations.  Pierre is the President of Cloud Connectors, a company that provides solutions that manage integrations between HR technology solutions. Some of the things we cover + What middleware technology does and why it is more than you might realize + Strengths and weakness of different types of middleware platforms + How to talk to technology vendors about integrations   We also learn why building your own software integrations tends to be a bad idea.

Steve talks with Bruce Mazza about the role partner management plays in HR technology. Bruce is the SVP of Global Alliances for 360 Learning, a collaborative learning solution. HIs career has focused on building effective partnerships between technology companies that provide different but complementary solutions. Some things we cover: + Why you should ask technology vendors about their partner strategy, and what to look for in their answers. + The critical but somewhat hidden role middleware plays in the world of HR technology + The increasingly critical role integration is having on the use of HR technology   

Steve and Jordan talk with Dr. Mike Hudy about using technology to improve hiring decisions and create positive and equitable candidate experiences. Mike is Chief Science Officer at HireVue and has years of experience building empirically validated assessments to support candidate selection. Some things we cover: + Why one of the criteria for evaluating technology solutions should be to consider the alternative  + The risk and danger of automating stupidity + The science of ensuring staffing selection algorithms are accurate, fair, and equitable We also learn that the requisition process is the root of all evil in staffing, and that the first step to being a Chief Expert is to become a Junior Expert

Steve and Jordan chat with Jim Newman, founder of HRIZONS and Michael Pawlyczn, head of sales for SAP SuccessFactors North America about what it takes to convince organizations to invest in HR technology.  And the actions that have to take place after the initial sale to ensure high levels of adoption and long-term license renewals. 

Steve and Jordan talk with Mary Poppen about links between HR technology, employee experience, and customer experience. Prior to her role as President of the Employee Experience Division of HRIZONs, Mary led customer experience functions in several prominent HR technology companies and wrote a book about customer and employee experience called “Goodbye Churn, Hello Growth!” . Some things we cover: + The challenge of experience management being something that everyone is responsible for but that few people are held accountable for. + Why companies need more centralized, cross-functional, continuous, integrated employee and customer experience management platforms. + Reasons companies struggle when building experience management technology platforms and functions We also hear Jordan talk about dark, scary temperature-controlled closets and learn that Steve was once in the CIA (not that CIA)

Steve and Jordan talk with Sujit Karpe about using technology to identify, assess and utilize employee skills. Sujit is the Chief Technical Officer at iMocha where he has guided development of large scale HR technology solutions that use AI/ML to improve skills management. Some things we cover: + The need for a common language around jobs and skills, and why it is hard to achieve.  + The difference between skills data platforms and skills application platforms + Approaching skills assessment from an employee perspective We also give Jordan the opportunity to rate Steve’s skill proficiency level.

Steve and Jordan talk with Maria Colacurcioabout using technology to reduce pay inequity based on gender bias and other non-job relevant employee characteristics. Maria is CEO for Syndio where she helps companies identify, understand, and correct situations where employees are being paid unfairly relative to their skills and contributions. Some things we cover: + Equitable pay does not mean equal pay and why it is hard to ensure people are paid fairly + The impact performance management has on achieving pay equity + Moving from pay for negotiation to pay for performance We also explore whether changing the lighting changes the conversation.

Steve and Jordan talk with Sam Passman about using technology to support talent management activities such goal setting, coaching, performance management, and career development. Sam is VP Product Management at SAP SuccessFactors and has played a central role in building some of the most widely used learning and talent technology solutions in the market. Some things we cover: + Shifting talent management from an organizational driven to employee driven activity + How AI is changing how companies and employees do talent management + The importance of creating transparency in talent management practices We also discuss musicals and almost break out into song, but thankfully come to our senses.

Steve and Jordan talk with Russ Fadel about using technology to support the training needs and job requirements of shop floor production workers. Russ, CEO at Augmentr brings a different perspective to HR technology coming from a background developing production technology systems. Some things we cover: + Unique challenges affecting production workers and operations workforces + The value of having better data on production worker skills and capabilities + Production worker attitudes toward technology that monitors their productivity and safety We also learn why Google glasses never became cool in the world of manufacturing and the “beers with my boss” strategy for talent advancement.

 Steve and Jordan talk with Paul Rubensteinabout how to effectively collect and utilize workforce data to drive business results. Paul is the Chief Customer Officer for Vizier and has built a career based on a passion for using science and data to make better decisions about talent. Some of the things we cover: + Why data validity has and continues to be a fundamental challenge to the field of HR analytics + The importance of looking at data from the perspective of people who do not work in HR + What HR can learn from finance when it comes to making effective use of data Steve and Jordan also learn what it means to be a “passenger princess”. 

Steve and Jordan talk with Mike Fitzsimmonsabout using technology to measure and improve quality of hire. Mike is the CEO of Crosschq and is focused on helping  companies improve their hiring intelligence through the use of data. Some things we cover: + The transformative impact created by accurately measuring the quality of hiring decisions + Factors impacting new hire performance that have nothing to do with the employee + The challenges to measuring and improving quality of hire at a holistic level We also ponder why people persist in doing things that are clearly not working as intended. 

Steve and Jordan talk with Michael Grimm about design and use of technology that enables companies to effectively visualize and interpret workforce data. Michael is the founder of Ingentis, where he has helped hundreds of companies use technology to integrate, interpret and act on workforce, financial and operations data from multiple sources. Some things we cover: + The transformational power associated with being able to see data in a meaningful way + The value of using technology that is designed to work across different HR platforms + Why people are one of the biggest barriers to getting good data We also learn the Latin word for genius and Steve tells a story about heated car seats. 

Steve and Jordan talk with Jenny Dearborn about using technology to support employee learning. Jenny is the Chief People Officer for BTS and has had a career focused on using technology to improve employee development. She also wrote the book Data Drivenon using workforce data to improve sales performance. Some things we cover: + Why traditional learning technology often fails to improve employee skills and performance + The value and limitations of using employee assessment tools to support development + Building learning programs that business leaders will value as being effective and relevant   We also learn to never ask a question unless you know what you will do with the answer

Steve and Jordan talk with Imran Sajid about the under-appreciated impact payroll technology has on organizational performance and employee experience. Imran is the Global HR and Payroll Technology Executive at EPI-USE and has spent a career deploying, developing and educating people on the use of complex global payroll solutions. Some things we cover: + The challenges of building technology where 99.99% accuracy is considered a total failure. + How providing employees insight and control over how they are paid affects their lives + Why seemingly small changes to pay practices can create massive logistical issues   Jordan is also forced to concede to Steve that the topic of payroll is actually very interesting.  

Steve and Jordan talk with Ben Granger using technology to understand and influence employee attitudes, engagement and commitment. The Chief Workplace Psychologist at Qualtrics, Ben is a pioneer and leading expert in the use of technology and data to understand and act on employee experience, perceptions, and attitudes. We go much deeper into the true purpose of employee listening technology and the fact that the way in which organizations operationalize employee matters a great deal. Some things we cover: + Why trust is at the heart of the employee experience + The difference between employee listening and monitoring. The former build trust and the latter often does the opposite.  + Employee listening is about honest conversations. When we conflate this with evaluation listening data becomes corrupted We also learn what nutria rats are and what nutria rats have to do with employee listening.

Steve and Jordan talk with Adam Greenberg about using technology to manage employee shift schedules. Adam is President and CEO of MakeShift and is a leading figure in using technology to reimagine how companies manage employee’s time. Some things we cover: + Why scheduling is far more complicated than people realize + How methods used to manage work schedules impact employee morale and team building + The diverse data used for workforce scheduling from weather forecasts to employee skills   We also go down memory lane when Jordan reveals he had a Diner’s Club card and Steve talks about the movie “Clockwise”.

Steve and Jordan talk with Thomas Otter about the current state and future growth of the HR technology market. Thomas is a General Partner at Acadian Ventures, a company the funds the growth of HR technology companies. During his career he has held almost every type of job in HR technology one could have including leading product management for one of the largest HR technology companies on the planet. Some things we cover: + Workforce analytics and why HR should be making it more of a priority + The underestimated impact that AI will have on work and how people are managed + Why team building and team dynamics is an area in need of technological innovation We also learn that the very first HR technology system in England was created in 1951. Guess what function it served? And Steve is told what would really happen if psychologists ruled the world.