Journey to an ESOP & Beyond

In this episode of the Journey to an ESOP podcast, Jason and Makenzie interview brothers Marc and John Farrell of to discuss their company’s transition to employee ownership and the multi-generational legacy behind it. The Farrell brothers share the history of their 80-year family business, why they chose an ESOP over other transition options, and what they’ve learned in the early stages of becoming employee owned. From succession planning and leadership transitions to culture and communication, this conversation offers practical insight for business owners thinking intentionally about the future of their company. 

In this Journey to an ESOP podcast episode, Jason and Makenzie continue the Foundations of Transition series, focusing on the theme of turning strategy into execution, exploring how these elements play a critical role in preparing for a successful ESOP transaction. Each workshop-style conversation in this series is designed to help business owners think more intentionally about the future of their company and the role they play in shaping it. This episode encourages owners to look beyond strategy alone and consider how effectively their plans are being carried out. Jason and Makenzie introduce the concept of “mini” strategic planning: breaking down not just what needs to be done, but how to implement it and how often to revisit progress. Through practical insights, they highlight why building strong accountability and execution habits early can reduce friction during a transaction and better equip your team for the work ahead. 

In this episode, Jason Miller speaks with Steve Baker of The Great Game of Business about the critical role of financial literacy in building successful employee ownership and ESOP cultures. They explore why ownership alone does not automatically create an ownership mindset and why education is essential for helping employees understand how businesses actually work. Steve shares practical insights on how organizations can strengthen engagement, accountability, and performance by teaching teams to think and act like owners through a deeper understanding of financials and business performance. The conversation highlights a key takeaway for ESOP companies and leadership teams: financial literacy is the foundation that connects employee ownership to real behavioral change and long-term business success.

In recognition of April as Financial Literacy Month, this episode explores a critical question in employee ownership—why financial literacy matters when employees are given ownership but do not fully understand its value. Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth discuss the role of financial literacy in employee ownership and Employee Stock Ownership Plan environments, and why understanding concepts like equity, valuation, and shared success is essential for employee-owners to fully benefit from what they have earned.From breaking down how employee ownership works to building confidence in financial decision-making, this conversation highlights how financial education empowers employees to think and act like owners. It also examines the risks organizations face when financial literacy and ownership education are missing or incomplete—and how stronger education strategies can unlock the full potential of an employee ownership culture.

What’s the right first question when an owner starts exploring an ESOP? It may not be “Can my company do one?” In this episode, we unpack why technical possibility and strategic fit are not the same thing. Using the metaphor of the kitchen in a family home, we explore what owners are really trying to preserve, strengthen, and pass on through transition — and why an ESOP works best when it supports the fundamentals rather than distracting from them. A thoughtful conversation for owners considering employee ownership, succession, continuity, and legacy.

In this episode of the Foundations of Transition series, Jason and Makenzie focus on the theme of Communication, Culture & Trust, exploring how these elements shape the success of an ESOP transaction. Each workshop-style conversation in this series is designed to help business owners think more intentionally about the future of their company and the role they play in shaping it. This episode encourages owners to consider not just the structure of a transition, but the human side of the process. Jason and Makenzie discuss why clear communication, a healthy company culture, and strong trust between leadership and employees are essential to building momentum and confidence throughout an ESOP journey. Through practical insights, they unpack how intentional communication and cultural alignment can reduce uncertainty and help create a smoother, more successful transition for everyone involved.

This week, Jason and Makenzie cover what could go wrong in an ESOP transaction. From concerns about overpaying for shares to the burden of debt service, unrealistic projections, and the momentum that can build during negotiations, this episode unpacks the risks that can make an ESOP feel “off track” and what causes those outcomes. Jason and Makenzie explore the difference between a deal that is truly broken and one that simply needs course correction, offering an honest look at the warning signs, human dynamics, and importance of sustainable structure.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie walk listeners through the step-by-step process of an ESOP transaction, breaking down what can often feel like a complex and overwhelming journey into a clear, approachable roadmap. They cover common questions business owners often ask at the start of the process, including: How do I know if my company is a good fit for an ESOP? and who should be involved? From evaluating readiness to understanding the key players involved, Jason and Makenzie share practical insights on who to engage first, what steps to expect, and how to navigate the early stages of exploring employee ownership with confidence.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie explore what is often one of the most challenging roles in an ESOP transition: frontline management. Immediately after a transition to employee ownership, frontline managers often take on the greatest level of responsibility as they help employees navigate change while keeping the business moving forward. Jason and Makenzie unpack six key threads that can help frontline managers better support their teams and guide the company through a successful transition. 

In this episode of the Foundations of Transition Series, Jason and Makenzie focus on the theme of Strategic Direction, asking the critical question: What direction are we moving in, and how are we getting there? Each workshop-style conversation in this series is designed to help business owners think more intentionally about the future of their company and the role they play in shaping it. This episode challenges owners to step back and “look up” from the day-to-day demands of running a business to look ahead. Jason and Makenzie discuss why better questions lead to better strategy, and how defining what you hope to gain from the future of the company can lead to a plan that is both realistic and effective. Through practical insights, they explore how thoughtful strategic direction creates clarity, momentum, and a path forward for both the owner and the organization.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie sit down with Steve Thornton and Eric Harris of Monte Sano Research Corporation (MSRC) to discuss the company’s evolution to employee ownership. They reflect on their company’s journey to an ESOP and how succession was intentionally embodied well before the formal transition, and the cultural foundations that made ESOP alignment a natural fit. The conversation also explores how employee ownership can bridge founders to successors, along with candid advice for leaders considering this path, including preparation, key decisions, and lessons learned along the way.

In this episode, Makenzie Wirth and Jason Miller explore how any employee, regardless of title or department, can help create enterprise value in an employee-owned company. They break down practical strategies to drive growth, increase profitability, and contribute to long-term company value. Whether you’re in sales, accounting, operations, or any other department, learn how your role connects to the bigger financial picture. Discover how ESOP employees can leverage their strengths, act like owners, and impact the company’s bottom line. This conversation will challenge you to think and act like an owner.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie discuss the true meaning of equity, beyond financial payouts. They break down equity in terms of fairness, company ownership, home equity, and long-term value, and explain the responsibilities, risks, and mindset that come with owning equity. Learn how equity represents control, alignment, risk distribution, and strategic planning — key concepts for business owners, ESOP participants, and employees with a stake in their company. Whether you’re looking to understand ESOPs, employee ownership, or equity in business, this episode provides practical insights into why having a stake matters and how it shapes decision-making and culture.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie continue “The Foundations of Transition” series by highlighting the courage it takes to transition a company and its leadership. Each workshop-style episode builds on the last, offering practical guidance to help business owners move forward with confidence.This second foundation emphasizes the key components of a well-crafted transition plan, showing leaders how to confidently prioritize long-term growth over fear-driven decisions. Jason and Makenzie discuss how intentional planning, clear direction, and courageous decision-making can shape a successful future for both owners and their organizations.

In this episode, Jason Miller explores the unsettling feeling of being enrolled in a college class you never signed up for — and suddenly realizing you are expected to know the subject matter. The fear and overwhelm hit hard. For many business owners, that is exactly what business succession planning and ESOP transitions can feel like. He explains how that anxiety often stems from delayed awareness, not a lack of effort or responsibility.Jason reframes what “readiness” really means — not mastery or having all the answers, but awareness and orientation. By recognizing the “class” early and naming what truly matters, business owners can navigate succession planning, employee stock ownership plan (ESOP) transitions, and long-term exit planning with greater clarity, confidence, and control.

What truly drives a successful ESOP transaction? In this episode, Jason Miller sits down with Pete Schuler, Senior Vice President and Head of Consulting at Blue Ridge, to share insights from more than 30 years of specialized ESOP advisory and consulting experience.A trusted advisor on ESOP transactions and compliance, Pete has worked with companies across every stage of the ESOP lifecycle. Together, he and Jason explore the key “R’s” of an ESOP transaction, highlighting critical considerations around plan design, compliance, and transaction readiness. Drawing on his experience advising business owners, collaborating with investment banks, and leading complex ESOP projects, Pete offers practical guidance for business owners and advisors navigating ESOP planning and execution.

In this episode, Makenzie Wirth interviews Joe Jones, Audit Partner at Berman Hopkins. As lead of the firm’s Construction Advisory Services Team, Joe shares his perspective on the recent trend of construction companies transitioning ownership to ESOPs. From audit considerations, valuation risks, bonding, backlog quality, governance, and jobsite culture, Makenzie and Joe provide practical advice for construction owners considering employee ownership.Listen to this episode to understand how ESOPs impact construction businesses and get actionable guidance for your company’s transition.

In this episode of the Journey to an ESOP podcast, Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth kick off The Foundations of Transition, a monthly series focused on owner readiness. Each workshop-style episode builds on the last, creating a practical framework to guide business owners through a successful ownership transition.This first foundation explores owner identity and readiness, helping business owners define their vision, align decisions with their values, and plan for a successful ownership transition. Understanding your identity is critical, as it shapes not only who your business is today, but also what it becomes after transition.

Season 7 kicks off with a simple truth: change is inevitable, but being unprepared is a choice. In this premiere episode, Jason Miller sets the stage with Continuity Through Change, diving into what this season has in store: navigating leadership in motion, building foundations that endure through transitions, and uncovering the emotional dynamics that often shape ownership decisions.

In this episode of the Journey to an ESOP podcast, Jason sits down with Danny Massey, Head of Strategy and Communications for Expanding ESOPs--a national coalition working to dramatically broaden employee ownership across the United States. Danny shares how he became involved in the ESOP world, and the conversation dives into the powerful benefits of employee ownership, why it matters now more than ever, and how expanding access can create lasting impact for workers and businesses alike.

In this holiday episode, Jason and Makenzie explore the ESOP as a meaningful gift to a company’s employees. They break down how ESOP benefits work for both owners and employees and unpack the mechanics behind inside notes versus outside notes. This episode is a helpful resource in understanding ESOP verbiage and the real benefits that employees receive through a company transitioning to an ESOP. 

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie let three “ESOP ghosts” guide us through the employee-ownership journey. They revisit the origins of your ESOP, take a candid look at how things stand today, and discuss how to intentionally choose its future. They highlight how the decisions, habits, and culture shape long-term ESOP success.

In this episode, the Journey to an ESOP podcast speaks directly to founders who feel the weight of leadership and wonder how their team will successfully shift into an ESOP model. Through a blend of personal story and practical insight, Jason explores how identity, encouragement, and intentional leadership can help bridge that gap and prepare both leaders and teams for a confident, sustainable ESOP transition.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie dive into the real purpose of ESOP feasibility and why it’s far more than just another spreadsheet. They break down what “feasibility” truly means in an ESOP transaction and walk through the key factors companies should evaluate, from existing debt to entity structure (S-corp vs. C-corp) to long-term sustainability. They also dig into how feasibility helps determine whether an ESOP will genuinely benefit the company, the owners, and the employees.

In this 15-minute episode, Jason and Makenzie take on some of the biggest misconceptions that keep companies from exploring an ESOP. They break down why ESOPs aren’t the overly complicated, out-of-reach structures many assume they are and why owners don’t suddenly lose control the moment they sell. They also dig into the fear that employees won’t understand the benefits of an ESOPs hurt bonding capacity or borrowing power, and the belief that only large companies can afford them.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie dive into the essentials of budgeting, forecasting, and planning for the year ahead. They break down what to focus on in preparation for the new year. The discussion explores the difference between budgeting and forecasting, how to interpret historical performance, and how to use your numbers to set purposeful goals that drive growth. This episode provides practical insight on how to plan effectively and set your company up for a strong, successful year.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie have a conversation around the meaning and relevance of assurance in the context of an M&A transaction and more specifically in an ESOP transaction. They discuss who needs assurance and why - whether it be in the form of a financial statement audit, surety bond, fairness opinion, or simply advice from your providers.

For the final episode of the Employee Ownership Month series, Jason interviews with Chris Fredericks, President and CEO of Empowered Ventures. Jason and Chris both discuss the power of employee ownership and how it can help expand a business, attract talent, and build more resilient companies. Their conversation highlights company growth, finding competitive advantage through a company's culture, and why employee ownership continues to matter in an AI world. This episode is the last part of the podcast's four-part series recognizing the importance of employee ownership.

In this episode we explore what life is really like for leadership after a company becomes employee owned. Guest Kimberly McCourtney, former HR Executive of an ESOP company and currently the Peer Networking Manager at NCEO, shares her firsthand experience navigating the cultural and organizational shifts that follow the transition. Together, we discuss how leadership roles evolve when everyone has a stake, what an “ownership mindset” looks like in day-to-day operations, and why transparency and trust become the foundation for long-term growth. This thoughtful conversation offers a genuine look at the human side of employee ownership and is a must-listen for leaders in newly or soon-to-be employee-owned companies. 

In this episode. Makenzie interviews leaders from five diverse ESOP companies as they share their paths to employee ownership. Each organization offers a unique perspective on the transition process, the challenges and opportunities along the way, and the lasting impact ownership has had on their culture and performance. 

In this episode, Jason interviews Corey Rosen of the National Center for Employee Ownership. Corey tells Jason a story to unpack what employee ownership really looks like – the hopes, the doubts, and the decisions that define the first step of the journey. The episode is designed as an educational resource to make the concept of employee ownership approachable – simple, clear, and human. If you’ve ever wondered as an owner how to move from curiosity to confidence, this is a great place to start. 

In this podcast episode, Jason announces a special release schedule for Employee Ownership Month. For the month of October, the podcast will feature special guests, educational resources, and ESOP insights. Be sure to return each Friday for the next installment!  

In this episode, Jason tells a campfire story to illustrate the learning process of the ‘ESOP language’ and its importance on your Journey to an ESOP and Beyond. He discusses the importance of language in communication, highlighting its role in conveying ideas and facilitating collaboration.

In this episode, Makenzie breaks down a leveraged ESOP transaction and the resulting impacts to a company's financial statements. This episode highlights the journal entries required for a simplified, leveraged ESOP transaction in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles including common mistakes to avoid. 

On this episode, Jason Miller interviews Makenzie Wirth, the newest member of our Journey to an ESOP team. From a career in public accounting to her current role in ESOP advisory, Makenzie discusses her journey in learning about employee ownership over the last several months. The podcast highlights her fresh perspective on ESOPs and employee ownership and includes a sneak peak of what she will bring to the podcast in future episodes. 

In this episode Jason flies a little too close to the sun when discussing the impact of a company’s structure on its ability to harness the power of employee engagement. The discussion covered how employee engagement impacts business success, with comparisons to different types of civilizations and their energy usage, including the idea of harnessing this energy effectively. Overall, this is episode provides recommendations for improving employee engagement levels within companies, emphasizing the importance of collective effort and the role of successful businesses in supporting local economies. 

In this episode, Jason Miller interviews Miriam Agrell and Kavita Vora from The Fraction Collective. Throughout the conversation, they highlight different ways that creative agencies and ESOPs intersect. The group discusses the reality of succession planning and how ESOPs are an attractive option for business owners who are looking for an exit strategy.

In this podcast episode, Jason discusses the best ways to approach succession planning. He focuses on tackling succession with intention and covers common obstacles that stand in the way of owners achieving their vision for a successful ownership transition. 

In this episode, the podcast interviews Steve Baker, Vice President of Great Game of Business, Inc. Steve gives insight into the importance of financial literacy in building a company’s value through a culture of accountability, the dignity of equity ownership, and the hope of a financially successful future. To join us at the Great Game of Business Conference in September, please follow the link below!  Learn more about the Great Game of Business Conference: https://www.greatgame.com/conference-2025Learn more about Steve Baker: https://www.greatgame.com/about/our-team/steve-baker

This episode uses the classic film, Indiana Jones, as our feature film. The podcast utilizes this retro film as an example of something that never goes out of style-just like business owners helping their employees! The question the podcast discusses is if an ESOP is the best option for your company and people? This is a common question on anyone’s journey to an ESOP. The podcast attempts to help listeners asses where they are in company development of employee engagement. 

In this podcast episode, ESOP attorney John Burgess returns to share what business owners should anticipate in the months following an ESOP transaction. From governance changes to employee communication and administrative next steps, Burgess offers practical insights to help new ESOP companies navigate the critical post-formation period with confidence.

On this podcast episode we reference the movie Kon Tiki, which documents the journey of a Norwegian scientist on a raft built with natural materials and proves the ancient peoples sailed to the Polynesia islands.  The trip took 4300 miles in ocean currents without a motor. The podcast uses the concept of “wind in the sails” to review the tax benefits that ESOP companies experience. Specifically, this episode dives into defining an S-Corporation ESOP, which means that either in part or in whole the ESOP-owned company has a permanent tax benefit given the income tax is exempt on both the state and federal level.  

On this podcast episode, we interview Andy Hines - founder of Hines Pool and Spa from Austin, TX. Hines Pool and Spa is an excellent example of a successful approach to an ESOP transaction.  Andy shares his experience with researching ESOPs in relation to Private Equity.  Like many companies, Andy found that the ESOP was a better alternative for not just the company, but for himself and his family. Andy shares some of the lessons he learned early in the process, providing some practical tips for those on their own journey to an ESOP. 

On this episode, we dig into a better understanding of the buy side team for an ESOP transaction. This would include the Trustee, Evaluation Firm, and their legal counsel.  As you invite them into the ESOP deal, they are in a sense the enemy and there are certain aspects of working with them in this process that are important to understand so that you can be better prepared for your transaction and your journey to an ESOP.

As the podcast discussed at the beginning of the new season- we wanted to give a strong overview of the Third-Party Administrators (TPAs) role in the ESOP. On this episode, the podcast interviews Tom Roback with Blue Ridge. The episode looks at the trends in the ESOP community and the consolidation of TPA companies.  We look to answer what challenges with TPA firms are currently being experienced and how TPAs (particularly Blue Ridge) are looking to overcome those to provide a strong partnership with their clients. Tom does an excellent job walking through a a various list of topics - this should be a helpful podcast episode along your journey to an ESOP.

Power Rangers are an excellent example of strength in combining multiple superheroes on one team. On this episode we consider: What is your company worth?  What happens when we combine it with another then another? The value could significantly change for better multiples and for multiple reasons.  One of those would be a larger combined EBITDA with a reduction in redundant expenses.  Another could be the risk profile is reduced given larger geographic and higher diversification of revenue. Whether you sell to an ESOP or another buyer, through this podcast episode we discuss the multiple reasons to consider this approach. 

In this episode, we sit down with Kevin Birch, Regional Manager at CNA Surety, to explore best practices for contractor ESOPs. A key theme throughout our conversation is communication—and lots of it. One of the biggest mistakes a contractor can make is surprising their surety with news of an ESOP transaction. Kevin strongly recommends that contractors—whether general or specialty—get their surety agent and company involved early in the process. Doing so allows the proposed ESOP structure to be reviewed and vetted, ensuring buy-in from your surety partner. Throughout the podcast we discuss how critical it is to present models that illustrate valuation, cash flow projections, debt structure, and pro forma balance sheets. These elements are essential for the surety to properly underwrite the transition and help avoid issues with your bonding line after the ESOP is in place. 

The show “Band of Brothers” offers a perfect example of leadership from the character of Captain Sobel and provides examples of overcoming obstacles to establish a strong culture. Specifically, the show provides an example of an employee-centric culture: a culture that embodies a solid group of employees ultimately banding together.  This episode covers the 5 c’s of an employee-centric culture: Commitment; Care; Celebration; Communication and Community. The topic might be helpful to assess wherever you are in your journey to an ESOP as you build, improve, or sustain the culture of your business. 

In this episode the podcast discusses the recent uncertainty with the economy and how this effects the ESOP world. Considering this, the podcast interviews senior level banker Chris Cucci with Climate First Bank. Chris’ bank does financing for ESOP deals all over the United States, providing valuable perspective on ESOP financing credit decisions in light of the first quarter of 2025. While the future of recent economic events in unpredictable, the important take away from this episode is to build your ESOP around the ability to flex with any changes in the economy. 

This episode provides the background on both Warrants and SARs in an ESOP transaction.  The typical usage of synthetic equity structured within a deal can create a solid win-win for the shareholders and the company.  Within the topic, the podcast uses the Nicolas Cage film “Knowing” as an example to explain how a warrant and SAR model help to predict the future just like so that we can create a lasting legacy for the company and a successful reward for those that are taking on the future risk of the enterprise.