Legal Off the Leash

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In this episode, Scott and Elizabeth sit down with LinkedIn strategist and former lawyer Melanie Goodman to unpack how lawyers can actually use LinkedIn and Substack to build visibility, relationships, and real business opportunities. Melanie shares practical advice on profile optimisation, content strategy, and the long game of online credibility. She also tells the remarkable story of being permanently banned from LinkedIn (and how she fought to get her account back). This episode is a masterclass in digital reputation, strategic networking, and building a platform that works for you—not the other way around. Key Themes LinkedIn as a Business Development Tool Why LinkedIn is still the most powerful professional network—and why most lawyers use it incorrectly. Consistency Beats Viral Posts Building trust and opportunities on LinkedIn is about long-term visibility, not occasional posting. Content That Serves Your Audience The biggest mistake professionals make is posting what they want instead of addressing client pain points. Your Profile Is Your Foundation Before posting anything, lawyers must optimise their LinkedIn profiles so people actually understand what they do. Owning Your Audience Beyond LinkedIn Why email lists protect your visibility when social media platforms fail. Building Referral Networks Strategically Lawyers often focus on end clients—but referrals frequently come from adjacent professionals. Memorable Quotes “LinkedIn’s not just a job board… it’s an incredibly fast moving business development tool if you know how to use it.” “You have to be consistent… people have to get to know you, get to know your personality to want to work with you.” “You’re building relationships on LinkedIn the same way you build any other relationship — you’re just doing it online.” “The biggest mistake that I see people making is that they post what they want to post rather than thinking about the problems or the pain points of the people that they want to connect with.” “There’s absolutely no point in putting out content on a profile that doesn’t tell people what you do.” “Referrals are often underrated because people are so focused on getting clients from LinkedIn.” Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Treat LinkedIn like relationship-building, not broadcasting. Business rarely comes from a single post—it comes from repeated exposure, trust, and private conversations. Optimise your profile before creating content. If someone clicks your profile and can’t quickly understand what you do or who you help, your content won’t convert into opportunities. Think in terms of client problems, not personal announcements. Content that addresses real challenges your audience faces will naturally gain more traction and engagement. Build a referral ecosystem—not just a client list. Connecting with professionals who serve your ideal clients often produces warmer, more consistent referrals. Never rely on a single platform. Melanie’s LinkedIn ban highlighted the importance of owning your audience through email lists and being visible across multiple platforms. Repurpose your knowledge across platforms. Content created for LinkedIn can be adapted into deeper articles, newsletters, or community engagement on platforms like Substack. This is the most practical advice you can hear to get started with LinkedIn and use it in a way that doesn't send you into vanity metrics spirals. It also highlights that you don't own your LinkedIn following and what you do to take back control.

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! This episode comes with a warning: If you think AI won't completely change the practice of law, you may not want to listen. In this episode, Scott and Elizabeth are joined by Quentin Solt—former UK solicitor, investor, and long-time observer of AI’s evolution—to unpack a provocative idea: AI isn’t just changing law, it’s dismantling it. From “Trojan horse” technologies to the collapse of the billable hour and the rise of “living contracts,” Quentin challenges everything lawyers think they know about value, trust, and their future role. This is a bold, uncomfortable, and essential conversation about what happens when knowledge is no longer scarce—and what comes next. 🔑 Key Themes AI as a Trojan Horse exposing inefficiencies in legal services The collapse of knowledge as a premium legal product Why clients want outcomes, not contracts or time The end of the traditional law firm pyramid structure Legal work shifting from IQ (knowledge) to EQ (judgement and relationships) The rise of ‘living contracts’ and non-adversarial legal systems 💬 Memorable Quotes “The lawyer will become redundant when the client realises that AI is good enough.” “Knowledge is no longer scarce. Knowledge is being democratised.” “Today’s hallucination is tomorrow’s joke.” “The lawyer is paying for them [legal AI tools] so that they can plan their own extinction.” “Regulation now becomes a hurdle, not a lens.” “Unless you're really really loving what you're doing, explore whether or not you want to have another job.” 📌 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Legal value is shifting from technical knowledge to human judgement, context, and emotional intelligence—skills that AI, for the time being, struggles to replicate. AI adoption isn’t just about efficiency; it fundamentally changes the economic model of law firms, making traditional hierarchies unsustainable. Lawyers must rethink their role: from document producers to strategic advisors focused on outcomes and relationships. Resistance to change isn’t new—legal innovation has been possible for decades, but cultural inertia has held the profession back. AI will first augment, then replace large portions of legal work—especially routine, process-driven tasks. The future of law may move away from adversarial systems toward continuous, data-driven negotiation and resolution (“living contracts”). This is, without question, our most controversial episode yet. It's uncomfortable and we know many lawyers won't agree. But this episode is a must if you're open to thinking about an alternative future for the legal profession.

Episode Overview Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In this episode, Scott and Elizabeth are joined by Tom Fleuriot, a legal operations consultant with a refreshingly original lens on lawyer behaviour. Inspired by a children’s book, Tom introduces the “Big Five” animals as a metaphor for how lawyers think, act, and sometimes misstep. From herd mentality and siloed thinking to ego, short-sightedness, and the “elephant in the room” of legal understanding, this conversation dives deep into self-awareness, professional identity, and what it really means to deliver effective legal advice in a complex, human world. 🔑 Key Themes The “Big Five” as a behavioural lens for lawyers: elephant, lion, leopard, buffalo, and rhino Self-awareness over fixed traits: lawyers as adaptable, context-driven professionals The tension between herd mentality and unnecessary individualism in legal teams Short-term wins vs long-term value in negotiation and decision-making The myth of “knowing the law” without understanding its human context Why legal advice must integrate both accuracy and real-world application 💬 Memorable Quotes “You start trying to win the point rather than trying to win the longer term solution.” “At its best, it creates stability, it creates that sense of purpose; at its worst, you’re just being difficult, and you’re just being different for the sake of being different ” “Step one in acting in your client's interest is to understand what they think their interests are rather than deciding for them.” “If they're wrong about the application, they are wrong about the law.” “These are lenses through which you can look at your actions and you can test yourself.” “The idea that we should be allowing ourselves to be classified in that way [by social media algorithms] seems to me to be the fundamentally flawed concept of tech bros who can't cope with the idea of the inherent beauty of complexity.” 📌 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Use metaphors as practical tools: frameworks like the “Big Five” help lawyers reflect on behaviour without defensiveness. Self-awareness is a competitive advantage: recognising when you’re acting like a “rhino” or “buffalo” can improve decision-making in real time. Avoid binary thinking: legal accuracy and commerciality are not opposites—they must operate together. Focus on outcomes, not ego: winning arguments is less valuable than achieving sustainable, relationship-driven results. Understand the “why” behind the law: context, human behaviour, and real-world application are essential to giving meaningful advice. Challenge default behaviours: whether following the herd or going solo, both can be strengths—or weaknesses—depending on context.   This episode teaches us to understand those beasts in each of us, where they can help us, and where they can set us back.

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In this episode, we sit down with behavioural scientist and The Fun Habit author Mike Rucker to explore an idea the legal profession rarely takes seriously: fun. Drawing on research from psychology, peak performance, and workplace wellbeing, Mike explains why chasing “happiness” can actually make us more miserable—and why intentionally designing moments of fun is the real key to resilience. From burnout and billable hours to creativity and career design, this conversation challenges the legal industry’s obsession with grind culture and offers a refreshing, science-backed way to rethink work, success, and joy. 🔑 Key Themes The Problem With Chasing Happiness Why treating happiness as a measurable outcome can paradoxically make people more unhappy. Fun as a Resilience Strategy How small, intentional moments of joy help sustain people through demanding professions like law. Burnout Kills Creativity When lawyers stop enjoying their work, their ability to think creatively and solve problems declines. Agency Over Your Career Many professionals underestimate how much power they actually have to reshape their circumstances. Rethinking Success Metrics Why knowledge work shouldn’t be judged solely by hours worked or output volume. Designing Fun Into Everyday Life Practical frameworks—like Mike’s SAVOR system—for making even mundane tasks more enjoyable. 💬 Memorable Quotes “I really focused on happiness like all of us at the onset and only to find out that the fact that we are talking about happiness too much is actually having the opposite effect.” “What I call fun… essentially finding joy in the moment, finding pleasure in what you're doing and being content, seems to be the thing that wins the long game.” “Fun is just: Are you finding pleasure in the things that you're doing?” “Being a good lawyer is creative work. The lawyers I know that crush it are the ones that are the most creative.” “Trading time for money is the crux of most vocational burnout.” “Things like well-being become homework on top of an insane schedule.” 📌 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Chasing happiness as a goal often backfires because humans naturally compare themselves to others and quickly adapt to positive changes. Focusing on enjoyable moments instead leads to more sustainable wellbeing. Fun isn’t about constant leisure—it’s about increasing the number of activities in your life that feel engaging, pleasurable, or meaningful. Burnout doesn’t just make lawyers unhappy; it actively reduces their creativity and ability to produce high-quality work. Lawyers often underestimate their agency. Even in demanding careers like law, there are often more creative career paths and working models available than people realise. Traditional measures of success are outdated for knowledge work. Organisations should reward outcomes, creativity, and impact rather than time spent. Small behavioural tweaks—like bundling mundane tasks with enjoyable stimuli, introducing novelty, or deliberately planning fun activities—can meaningfully increase life satisfaction. This episode is all about finding the fun in work, and regaining agency over our careers and lives. Backed by science and years of research, this episode is one to take seriously—and have fun with! 

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In this deeply personal and unfiltered episode, Elizabeth and Scott explore the power of language and how the words lawyers use about themselves shape burnout, billing, confidence, culture, and client relationships. From “recovering lawyer” jokes to the damage caused by “your value’s in your time”, they unpack how self-deprecation, industry narratives, and internal culture quietly erode wellbeing. This one is about reclaiming the profession; and remembering why you chose it in the first place. 🔑 Key Themes The hidden cost of lawyer jokes and self-deprecating humour The myth that “your value’s in your time” and how that mindset fuels burnout Transformation vs. transaction: how lawyers undervalue their impact Psychological safety and the stories we tell junior lawyers Neural pathways, self-talk, and the science of burnout Reframing meaning in work, even when you can’t change jobs 💬 Memorable Quotes “If you commoditise your time, every time you spend time on something that’s non-billable, you are going to think that this is lesser time.” — Elizabeth “No child looks back and says, ‘I’m really grateful that my parents spent all that time working rather than spending it with me.’” — Scott “What lawyers do is transformative… they transform people’s lives.” — Scott “Lawyers are really unforgiving. They’re not kind to themselves.” — Elizabeth “If we talk ourselves down, then we can’t expect anyone to talk us up.” — Scott “F*** the lawyer jokes.” — Elizabeth  📌 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Language shapes identity. Repeated negative self-talk forms neural pathways that reinforce stress and burnout. Change the narrative, and you begin to change the experience. The billable-hour mindset distorts value. When time becomes the only metric, rest, family, and creativity start to feel “lesser”—a direct path to exhaustion. Transformation is the real product. Clients don’t pay for citations or six-minute units; they pay for movement—from uncertainty to clarity, risk to protection, conflict to resolution. Self-deprecating humour isn’t harmless. It can be a shield, but over time it feeds low self-esteem and professional shame. Senior lawyers set the tone. The way trainees are spoken to—and about—shapes their confidence, competence, and psychological safety. Reframing is powerful. Even if you can’t leave your role, you can reconnect to meaning: protection, service, justice, commercial clarity. Confidence impacts pricing and performance. When you value your work, clients feel it. When you don’t, they feel that too. This episode is a reminder: the profession isn’t broken beyond repair. But the story we tell about it might be.

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In this episode, Scott and Elizabeth are joined by plain language expert Colleen Trolove and information designer Liezl van Zyl for a lively, honest conversation about legalese: why it persists, why it frustrates clients, and what it’s really costing the profession. From hostage negotiation to jazz singing, they explore empathy, identity, hierarchy, AI, and the uncomfortable truth: if your client doesn’t understand you, you haven’t communicated. This is a practical and philosophical deep-dive into what clearer legal writing could unlock. 🔑 Key Themes Legalese as Identity: Why lawyers cling to complex language as a badge of expertise. Precision Myth: The flawed belief that legal language is inherently more accurate. Empathy as Strategy: Understanding your reader as the foundation of good drafting. Hierarchy & Habit: How firm culture and precedent entrench poor writing. Litigation Mindset: Why drafting for the worst-case scenario damages relationships. AI & Plain Language: How technology could accelerate—or undermine—clearer communication. 💬 Memorable Quotes “Make sure your reader understand who is doing what to whom.” — Liezl van Zyl “If they don't understand it, you haven't communicated it successfully.” — Colleen Trolove “The most common myth about communication is that it has actually taken place.” — Liezl van Zyl “Legalese is heredatory.” — Elizabeth de Stadler “People have a right to understand the documents they need to actively participate in their own lives.” — Liezl van Zyl 📌 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways If your client has to ask another lawyer to interpret your advice, you haven’t done your job. Plain language is not about “dumbing down”—it’s about accuracy, structure, and empathy. Legal language often survives because of hierarchy and fear, not because it’s better. Drafting for litigation rather than for relationship-building increases risk rather than reducing it. Start small: replace archaic phrases, use active voice, clarify who is responsible for what. User testing works in law too—observe how real people interact with your documents. AI can help clarify language, but only if you know what you’re trying to say first. Access to justice is fundamentally a communication issue. This episode is a reminder that clarity isn’t cosmetic. It’s ethical. And perhaps the simplest way to take the legal profession off the leash. Connect with the Guests Colleen Trolove 🔗 https://www.colleentrolove.co.nz/ 💬 LinkedIn   Liezl van Zyl 🔗 heyplainjane.com 💬 LinkedIn Resources for you to enjoy https://www.colleentrolove.co.nz/plain-language-resource-library

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In this beautifully tender and surprisingly funny episode, Elizabeth and Scott sit down with writer and diabetes advocate Bridget McNulty, author of Daily Glimmers. Bridget unpacks the transformative practice of noticing “tiny joys” and how this simple act became a lifeline through profound grief. From the neuroscience of micro-joys to the brutal honesty of living (and working) while heartbroken, Bridget shows why every lawyer needs glimmers: not as toxic positivity, but as a grounded, evidence-backed mental health tool for surviving modern life. 🔑 Key Themes Glimmers vs. Happiness: Why micro-moments of joy matter more than chasing big highs. Grief & Joy Intertwined: How profound loss reshapes attention, perspective and emotional capacity. Nervous System Science: What glimmers do physiologically and why lawyers need this reset. Attention as a Daily Choice: How news, screens and overstimulation steal our inner quiet. Humanity at Work: Why breaks, nature, silliness and softness make us better professionals. 💬 Memorable Quotes “It was so all consuming. It was like a fire that blazed through my life and it just burned everything to the ground.” “Even in those awful days… there were still these tiny little moments… the only chinks of light that I could find.” “Joy comes from inside. Happiness is dependent on outside factors.” “Glimmers calm your nervous system… even if it’s only for a couple of seconds.” “We’ve stepped away from being human to such an extent that we do need to remind ourselves.” “Everyone deserves a life that’s full of the beautiful ordinary.”   📌 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Grief destroys your emotional scaffolding, but micro-joys rebuild it. Glimmers act as tiny anchors when everything else feels unrecognisable. Joy is internal, gentle, and sustainable. It stabilises the nervous system in ways happiness can’t. Attention is the real battleground. Without intentional practices, the modern world defaults us into stress, reactivity and emotional depletion. Glimmers aren’t a project; they’re a lens. They don’t add to your to-do list, they shift how you see what’s already there. Lawyers need humanity breaks. High-pressure cultures, billable hours and perfectionism numb us to the very moments that support wellbeing and resilience. Meaningful careers require meandering. The linear “achievement timeline” is a myth; fulfilment comes from permission to explore.   You can find Bridget on Linkedin and Instagram.   And you can buy 'Daily Glimmers: The Art of Finding Tiny Joys Every Day of the Year' here.

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In episode 12, we’re back—candid, chaotic, and deeply human. After a short break, they reflect on Christmas, the realities of therapy and mental health, and why empathy matters more than ever in law. What begins as a light-hearted catch-up turns into a powerful conversation about catastrophising, client behaviour in the age of AI, and how lawyers can learn from medical professionals when it comes to trust, reassurance, and communication. This episode sets the tone for 2026—and for a profession ready for a do-over. 🔑 Key Themes Returning with intention: pauses, rest, and reflection matter Catastrophising vs clarity—what lawyers can learn from healthcare professionals Therapy, self-awareness, and emotional intelligence as professional skills Clients, AI, and the danger of judgment instead of empathy The shift from “hard skills” to human skills in the age of automation Letting go of rigid goals and holding ambition lightly 💬 Memorable Quotes “Everybody should get therapy. And it's not because you think something's wrong or because there's something wrong. It's for anybody.” — Scott “You don't cure depression, depression cures you.” — Elizabeth “When you catastrophise, you lose like, I think it was 20 IQ points.” — Elizabeth “You can sit there and be frustrated about the fact that people are going online, or you can understand and accept that this is the world we're living in.” — Scott “Hold your goals lightly.” — Elizabeth 📌 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Empathy beats expertise alone: Clients who arrive with Google, AI, or half-formed conclusions aren’t being difficult—they’re anxious. Meeting that anxiety with empathy builds trust faster than dismissing clients as diffilcult. Therapy builds better professionals: Self-awareness improves communication, leadership, and resilience—not just personal wellbeing. AI doesn’t remove the human role: Clients often ask the wrong questions. The lawyer’s value lies in diagnosis, framing, and reassurance. Human skills are the differentiator: As technical tasks become automated, connection, confidence, and clarity become core professional assets. Goals are fine, attachment isn’t: Focus on process, not perfection. Growth comes from consistency and kindness, not self-judgment.

Welcome to Episode 11 of Legal Off The Leash with your hosts Scott Simmons and Elizabeth De Stadler as they take a nostalgic journey through the first 10 episodes of Legal Off the Leash. From funny anecdotes about getting started to deep dives into the challenges of the legal profession, this episode offers a candid reflection on their podcasting journey. Discover the recurring themes, memorable guest insights, and the evolution of their dynamic (and sometimes strange) partnership. Whether you've been listening since episode 1 or new to the show, this retrospective is filled with laughter, learning, and a look at what's next for the podcast. Tune in for a blend of humour, honesty, and heartfelt moments that define Legal Off the Leash. Key Themes A candid look back: how the show started, what surprised Scott & Elizabeth, and how it’s evolving. Billable hour obsession: why it keeps showing up in every episode and why it matters. Editing chaos: pauses, dropped audio, accidental comedy, and finding a rhythm. Authenticity and “power skills”: essential for sustainable legal careers. Overwork ≠ excellence: cultural myths that harm learning and wellbeing. The profession’s problem with “yes culture”: How it shapes behaviours and careers. Legal design uncovered: a structured problem-solving process, not just visuals. Psychological safety takes centre stage: real research on lawyers and burnout. A hopeful future: more joy, better habits, and braver conversations ahead.   Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways  Repetition drives change: key issues need to be challenged often. Don’t glorify exhaustion: clients pay for outcomes and guidance, not fatigue. Protect mentoring: juniors need time to learn, not just to bill. Pause before “yes”: sustainable careers require boundaries. Try pricing the value: unlock better service quality and sanity. Legal design = process: use it widely, not just in contracting. Safety unlocks performance: psychological security fuels retention and innovation. Great communication is crafted: editing improves everything - including podcasts. Connect with your hosts Scott Simmons Elizabeth De Stadler

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In this episode, hosts Elizabeth de Stadler and Scott Simmons sit down with Dr Emma Clarke, an organisational psychologist based in Amsterdam whose PhD research uncovered the structural and cultural forces driving burnout and turnover in law firms. Emma explains her three-factor model of psychological safety — barriers and blind spots, leadership behaviours, and access to resources — and shares how hierarchy, billable hours and gendered time use reinforce an unsafe culture. She also talks about her AI-powered platform to detect early warning signs of workplace risk before they lead to harm. Key Themes  Psychological Safety Defined: Why it’s the foundation for culture, performance and well-being. Structural Challenges: Hierarchy, billable hours, and gender differences compound stress. The Three-Factor Model: Barriers & blind spots, leader behaviours, and access to resources. Role Modelling Matters: Leaders’ behaviours cascade down, shaping what juniors see as “normal.” Tokenistic Wellbeing: Why individual-focused initiatives fail without systemic change. A Preventative Platform: Using AI and psychology to surface risks before they harm people.   Memorable Quotes  “Psychological safety is a belief or a perception that people have about their environment.” — Emma Clarke “Psychological safety is foundational. It's the foundation to culture. It's a foundation to performance. It's a foundation to well-being, engagement, retention, all of those great things.” — Emma Clarke “There’s three critical factors… barriers and blind spots, the leader behaviours and the resources. These are the three critical factors that are important to build psychological safety.” — Emma Clarke “Leaders think the reason people are leaving is X. When you talk to employees they say Y.” — Emma Clarke “A number of times I heard in my research about leaders just going mental because something had happened… Everybody’s observing this and seeing that this is what happens if we make a mistake.” — Emma Clarke “In my last performance review… you could have been good this year, but because of your health we can’t give you a good score because you didn’t do enough hours.” — Research participant quoted by Scott Simmons “Law firms have to be really brave… if they want to retain talent, improve well-being and reduce burnout.” — Emma Clarke “The hierarchy, this formal hierarchical structure creates a really unsafe environment for people.” — Emma Clarke “This is not a hostage situation.” — Elizabeth de Stadlerish Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways  Audit your blind spots: Leaders often misdiagnose why people leave because staff don’t feel safe to tell the truth. Reward behaviours, not just billables: Promotion criteria should include emotional intelligence, fairness and empathy. Make wellbeing collective, not individual: Stop framing burnout as a personal failure — address the system. Plan long-term: Law firms must look beyond each financial year to invest in future talent and sustainable culture. Challenge definitions of success: The “big law or bust” mindset traps lawyers in unhealthy environments. Leverage transferable skills: Law degrees equip graduates for many careers — it’s not a hostage situation. Connect with Emma Clarke LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmaclarke/ Headspace Consulting: headspaceconsulting.co To take part in the pilot programme, contact Emma at https://helderinsight.com/.

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In this episode, Scott Simmons and Elizabeth de Stadler dive into the world of legal design — what it really means, why it matters, and how it transforms the client experience. Forget about “slapping some icons on a contract” or “making things pretty.” As Elizabeth explains, legal design is about functionality, empathy, and solving real problems for clients. From the importance of onboarding and websites to the plain language revolution in contracts, this conversation cuts through misconceptions and shows how design thinking can reshape legal services for the 21st century. And yes, there’s even talk of “fast caterpillars” and how bad templates fuel bad AI. Key Themes What Legal Design Really Is: Not decoration — but applying design thinking to law with empathy at its core. Beyond Contracts: Why websites, onboarding, and the entire client journey matter just as much as documents. Plain Language, Real Change: Contracts should preserve relationships, not fuel litigation. The Template Trap: Copy-paste culture has killed critical thinking in law. AI’s Fast Caterpillars: Without transformation, AI just makes bad contracts faster. Human-Centric Law: Practising this way isn’t just better for clients — it makes lawyers happier too. Memorable Quotes “Most people we talk to think that it's a matter of slapping some icons on a document. Or we get a lot of people say, well, you're going to make it pretty, aren't you? And I go, no, we're going to make it functional.” — Elizabeth de Stadler “Transformation is like turning a caterpillar into a butterfly, but if you make changes without the transformation bit, all you get is fast caterpillars.” — Elizabeth de Stadler “Clients are not coming to lawyers to buy their attention in six minute increments. They're coming to lawyers for outcomes and solution and support.” — Elizabeth de Stadler “A contract should be about, not about dispute resolution, but about dispute elimination.” — Elizabeth de Stadler “Good contracts don't get litigated.” — Elizabeth de Stadler “Practicing human centric law is more gratifying and contributes more to your wellness than the old way.” — Elizabeth de Stadler Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Start with empathy: Map out your users’ needs, frustrations, and expectations before designing processes or documents. Fix the basics: Websites, onboarding, and client communication set the tone long before contracts come into play. Plain language = trust: Contracts should clearly define roles and responsibilities to eliminate disputes, not feed them. Kill the boilerplate habit: Stop clinging to irrelevant or outdated clauses “because they’ve always been there.” AI isn’t magic: If your templates are poor, AI just reproduces poor work faster. Clean up before automating. Lawyer wellbeing matters: Human-centric design improves not only client trust but also lawyers’ mental health and job satisfaction.

The latest episode of Legal Off The Leash is out. And this time, we are giving the billable hour the ol' heave-ho!   In episode 8, we’re talking to Elani Maas—practice manager of Bromfield Family Law and co-director of Recalibrate, a value pricing consultancy helping law firms make the move away from the billable hour. Known as a value pricing whisperer and law firm transformer, Elani has dedicated her career to helping law firms ditch the billable hour and embrace a model that works better for clients, lawyers, and businesses.   From her early days managing accounts to spearheading full-scale value pricing transformations, Elani has seen first-hand the cultural, financial, and human costs of billing by the hour. She shares how value pricing flips client relationships on their head, why lawyers resist change, and why a future beyond the billable hour isn’t just possible—it’s already here.     Key Themes In This Episode   The Core Problem: Why every frustration in law traces back to the billable hour. Clients Want Certainty: Most clients expect fixed pricing everywhere else—why should law be different? Litigation Isn’t an Excuse: Value pricing works in family and civil litigation just as well as commercial law. Changing Culture: From silos and six-minute units to collaboration, trust, and real outcomes. Mental Health Matters: How value pricing supports healthier, more fulfilling careers for lawyers.     Memorable Quotes   “Clients aren't coming to lawyers to buy their attention in six minute increments. They're coming to lawyers for outcomes and solutions and support.” “We think value pricing is somehow revolutionary in the legal profession, but to the consumer, it’s just the norm.”   “That's exactly how I would expect to engage with a professional: I want to know the price upfront; and, if you can give me some different options, even better. I certainly would not be engaging anybody on an hourly rate.” “I absolutely do believe value pricing is better for lawyers. Abolishing the six minute increment allows space for people to redesign what their firm actually looks like.”   “90% of the complaints made to the Australian governing body are about fees and it's because clients don't know how much it is until the end.” “I want upfront fixed pricing to become the norm in the legal profession.”     Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways   Project management beats time recording: Value pricing scopes work in stages, making it flexible, transparent, and client-focused. Resistance is about unlearning: Lawyers’ risk-aversion and habit-forming culture slow adoption, but new generations are more open. Client relationships improve instantly: Fixed fees eliminate awkward billing conversations, replacing them with trust and clarity. Wellbeing shift: Without timesheets as the default measure of performance, firms can celebrate broader contributions and reduce burnout. Change is being led by small law: Agile firms are proving the model works, while larger firms lag behind.   With artificial intelligence primed to cut lawyer workloads by around 50%, pricing on time has no future, so this is an episode you can't afford to ignore.   You can connect with Elani and learn more about Recalibrate Legal Operations here: https://recalibratelegalops.com.au/

Former Baker McKenzie partner and ex–Barclays MD of Litigation, Investigations & Enforcement, Jonathan Peddie, joins Scott and Elizabeth to unpack his article, The PEP Trap—The Evolving Law Firm Time Bomb, critiquing the legal industry’s obsession with Profits Per Equity Partner (PEP), why it distorts behaviour, and how better investment in people, strategy, and non-legal functions builds healthier, more sustainable firms and client relationships. Key Themes PEP isn’t the whole picture: It’s a narrow, short-term metric that can hide weakening demand, under-investment, and strategic drift. Invest beyond the fee-earners: Firms thrive when HR, Finance, Compliance, BD, Marketing, and Operations are resourced and respected—not treated as expendable “cost centres.” People > billable hours: Coaching, feedback, and development time compound into quality, loyalty, and profitability—even if they reduce short-term billables. Strategy vs. execution: Year-to-year profit distributions bias firms toward last year’s revenue sources and away from long-horizon investments. Measure what matters: Track demand, revenue quality, matter mix, and relationship depth—not just PEP—over 3–10 year horizons. Memorable Quotes    “It's a very short term method of comparing one law firm with another. And PEP is used by lawyers deciding where to go next, but it's also much more heavily used by law firms to advertise how successful they are against each other for recruitment and publicity purposes.”   “In a law firm the partners and the associates are, they think, the business. My point is no, the whole business is the business, of which the lawyers are the lawyers, And yes, of course, producers are critical. They are the makers of units of cost to time that are sold to clients. But the marketing of them, the management of them, the employee relations, HR, the finance, the doing of all of the things that are not legal services are critical to optimising them.”   “Law firms should be open to the idea that lawyers should sacrifice time that they might be spending fee earning to optimise their business. But they won't do it. They'll do it because they have to, not because they want to. And that's a fundamental problem with the law firm model because the expectation of hours is such that it is really dangerous to spend your time developing others.”   “How do I make you better at what you do? And what do you get wrong? And how can we develop you? And how can we optimise you? And if you do that, the net effect is that all of you, if you're running a law firm, all of those people will be much higher productivity and much more lean and efficient and effective and much more attractive to the client, the profits will look after themselves.” Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways  Red-team your metrics: Keep PEP on the dashboard, but never alone. Pair it with demand trendlines, average matter value, matter count, and % of work that appears on clients’ board risk reports. Fund the “control environment”: Apply to your firm the same governance standards you advise clients on—strengthen Compliance, Risk, Audit, HR, Finance, BD/Marketing. Institutionalise development: Protect recurring 1:1s, coaching, feedback, and skills training as part of partner KPIs; treat non-billable development time as an investment line, not leakage. Succession = access to “gold” work: Maintain senior, board-level relationships and mentor successors early to preserve trust for bet-the-company matters. Stop annual myopia: Ring-fence budget for 3–10 year priorities (tech platforms, data, client experience, leadership pipelines) so execution doesn’t drown strategy. Re-balance partner economics: Don’t hollow out equity so far that you lose senior relationship capital; align remuneration with quality, collaboration, and client outcomes, not just hours and origination. Career design for juniors: Seek variety early, demand feedback, and learn across environments (private practice ↔ in-house) to build judgment and client empathy.   You can read The PEP Trap—The Evolving Law Firm Time Bomb here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonathan-peddie-2b4b4215_the-pep-trap-activity-7361048250935566336-5ntT?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAawwUkBitHoNUDvWsruZI0-G2BsPQ6Hs80 You can contact Jonathan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-peddie-2b4b4215/

Elizabeth Rimmer on Mental Health, Burnout, and the Future of Law: Creating a Sustainable Profession In episode 6, we’re talking to Elizabeth Rimmer, the CEO of LawCare, the mental health charity for the legal profession across the UK. She’s a passionate advocate for mental health and wellbeing within the legal profession and has been leading efforts to address burnout, stress, and mental health challenges in the sector. Elizabeth shares insights from her career, the role LawCare plays in supporting legal professionals, and her vision for a healthier, more sustainable legal environment. Key Themes Mental Health in Law: Understanding the collective responsibility for mental health in the legal profession. Workplace Culture: The fine line between teasing and bullying in professional settings. Burnout and Stress: High stress levels and the risk of burnout in the legal sector. Flexibility in Work: The rise of remote work and its impact on mental health. Generational Shifts: How Gen Z is changing the way we think about success and work-life balance in law. Re-thinking Success: Moving beyond the long hours and billing targets mentality. Memorable Quotes "Mental health and wellbeing is a collective responsibility... it is something that should be addressed by our whole profession." – Elizabeth Rimmer "Sometimes things said in banter or teasing can actually affect and have an impact on other people." – Elizabeth Rimmer "We know inherently that the ways we work in law... creates almost the perfect storm for some of the challenges that we see." – Elizabeth Rimmer "AI and tech are tools. They help us do our job. I don't see them as replacing lawyers." – Elizabeth Rimmer "Working long hours and exceeding your billing target means you're a great lawyer. That’s a myth." – Elizabeth Rimmer "We need to listen to what Gen Z is telling us... they are the future." – Elizabeth Rimmer Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Mental Health Awareness: Addressing mental health in law is a collective effort. It's essential for organizations and individuals to create environments where people feel supported and heard. Workplace Sensitivity: Understanding the fine line between teasing and bullying is crucial, particularly in a workplace setting. Being mindful of how our words affect others can help prevent exclusion and create more inclusive environments. Burnout in Law: Legal professionals are at significant risk of burnout, with stress being a widespread issue. There’s a need to reassess working practices to prevent this growing problem. Flexibility Over Rigidity: The traditional 9-to-5 structure is being challenged, especially post-COVID. Embracing remote work and flexible hours can help improve work-life balance, leading to healthier, happier professionals. Rethinking Success: The notion that success in law is defined by long hours and billable targets is a myth. True success comes from delivering quality outcomes, maintaining mental wellbeing, and achieving a balance between personal and professional life. Gen Z's Influence: Gen Z’s approach to work, with a focus on flexibility, autonomy, and meaningful work, is shaping the future of the legal profession. Their values need to be understood and embraced by senior leadership to retain top talent. The Role of AI: AI is not here to replace lawyers but to enhance their work. Legal professionals should use technology as a tool to work smarter, not harder, and enhance their human skills of trust, judgment, and empathy. You can connect with Elizabeth and learn more about LawCare here: LawCare Website

In this episode of Legal Off the Leash, we sit down with Chad Aboud, Chief Commercial Officer at Goodlawyer, TEDx speaker, and host of the What You’re About podcast. From his early days in Big Law to helping lawyers design meaningful, fulfilling careers, Chad shares powerful insights on authenticity, purpose, and redefining success in the legal profession. Whether you’re just starting out or reconsidering your path, this conversation will challenge how you think about your career, your values, and what truly matters. Key Themes In This Episode The Early Spark vs. Harsh Reality Chad opens up about how his childhood dream of practising law didn’t match the reality he encountered in law school and BigLaw — a reminder that sometimes our early ambitions need re-examining. Redefining Failure Chad reveals why leaving wasn’t failure — but staying without trying something different would have been. Creating Space for Clarity A powerful reflection on why stepping out of the “fast river” of expectations is sometimes necessary to build a truly fulfilling career. Purpose & Intentionality Chad encourages listeners to ground career decisions in purpose — and avoid relying on one role, organisation, or person to be “everything.” Unlocking Your Unique Value Discover why success lies in amplifying your natural gifts, not just outworking everyone else. Leading with Humanity A leadership lesson every lawyer (and leader) should hear: vulnerability and genuine investment in others create stronger, more loyal teams. 💬 Memorable Quotes “I watched Matlock as a kid. And I was like, solve the crime, wear the gray suit every day. They admit it on the stand. Beautiful. I want to do this. And so that's why I went to law school. only to very quickly find out that this did not feel like what I was going to be doing. And I didn't really like law school that much.” “I'm smart enough to figure something else out. And I think the hardest part for me was that I would have felt like a failure if I hadn't tried. So I actually felt more like a failure during the time, not when I left.” “Know the purpose for why you're going. And then start being reflective and intentional about what it is you want in the next phase.” “Start understanding where your unique value proposition is. For most people, it's not just going to be knowing the law and being there longer. That's a bit of a commodity.” “Associates that see you as a human, know that you have some humility and know that you're investing in them. That's how you build a group of dedicated folks who are going to work hard for you on the work and in the hours that you can't or don't want to do.” 💡 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Challenge the dream vs. reality gap: make sure your path truly energises you. Reframe failure: fear not trying more than you fear leaving. Step out of the “river” of expectations to design your own future. Anchor your career in purpose and be intentional with your next moves. Lead with authenticity and humility—it inspires loyalty and better work. 🎧 Tune in for a conversation that’s raw, honest, and packed with insights to help you design a legal career that lifts you up. You can connect with Chad here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chadaboud/

In episode 4, we're talking to Kirsty McShannon, founder of Azorra, a law firm specialising in the live events, festivals and venues industry, with the aim of making legal services accessible to the wider industry and providing niche legal support. Kirsty is also a trustee of The G-A-Y Foundation and a recently-appointed founding trustee of Live Trust, a new funding initiative launched following consultation with DCMS to provide financial support to grassroots music. Kirsty has an incredible story to share that will not only resonate with so many lawyers, but we hope will also show them that, even with things get really tough, when it feels as though you can't see a path forward, you can change the direction of travel and create something very special Important Themes In This Episode Finding your place beyond traditional legal paths Serving a niche and speaking the client’s language Redefining success beyond financial metrics Reclaiming control of your mental and physical health The power of value-based pricing and building a strong team Memorable Quotes “I just thought, I need help, I’m going to have to change something, I can’t sustain feeling like this, and it really flipped on its head for me what success was.” “The turnover was the highest turnover we’d had, and that year was the record profit year we’d had, but mental health wise, physical health wise it was just totally non-sustainable” “I just felt like I need to be somewhere where I feel like me because I'm finding out all these things about me sort of all at the same time.” “Don't worry if you don't fit the mould.” “Clients couldn't care less about documents and time. What we do is so much more.” Important Insights & Actionable Insights Don’t feel pressured to follow the traditional ladder (associate → partner) — there are many ways to define success in law. Focus on finding the right niche and the people you resonate with, not just the legal discipline. Embrace value-based pricing to align better with client needs and reduce stress. Understand your clients deeply: their industry, pressures, and what truly matters to them. Prioritise your health and build a business model that supports your life, not the other way around. You can connect with Kirsty here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirsty-mcshannon-live-events-lawyer/

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In episode 3, we’re talking to Uwais Iqbal the founder & CEO of simplexico - The Legal AI Consultancy. He has published academic research papers and industry journal articles on Legal AI, delivered AI Education to international law firms as well as to the general public at the prestigious Royal Institution, and regularly speaks about Legal AI at international conferences. He is on a mission to demystify AI for the legal profession so they can step into a future of collaboration with AI. Key Themes Demystifying AI in Legal: Understanding AI beyond ChatGPT – and why most people use it wrong.   From Hype to Reality: Cutting through “innovation theatre” and inflated expectations.   Use Cases That Matter: What’s working in law firms today—and what’s not.   Lawyer Experience First: Why AI should enhance, not replace, legal professionals.   Mindset Shift: Moving beyond the billable hour and toward scalable expertise.   Memorable Quotes   “It’s a mismatch in understanding around the capabilities and the limitations of the tool.”   “People are stuck in microwave land without realizing you can get pizza ovens and you can actually get personal chefs.”   “A lawyer who knows how to use AI is going to be far more valuable than a lawyer who's rejecting AI and not savvy with it.”   “Technology becomes a proxy for status and reputation. ‘We're using AI, therefore we're the best firm.’”   “What’s the most effective labour resource to deliver that work product: a human, a machine, or a combination of both?”   Important Insights & Actionable Insights   Education is step one: Uwais likens AI to electricity: technology layer → application layer → use layer. AI success: enhancing workflows, not automating people out of the process. Cooking analogy breakdown: generic tools, focused tools, and custom solutions Clients are ahead of firms: They're adopting AI and will soon expect law firms to do the same. A common myth debunked: Buy expensive tools and you’re innovative. Most firms are buying microwaves and calling them personal chefs.   You can connect with Uwais here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/uwaisiqbal/

Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future!   In episode 2, we’re talking to Paul Dunn, the co-founder of B1G1 (Buy1GIVE1), where he has created a model that allows businesses to embed giving into their everyday operations, creating lasting impact worldwide.   Paul is the author of seminal business books such as The Firm of the Future and Time’s Up, has delivered four TEDx talks, and continues to inspire global audiences on how business can be a force for good. Paul’s message is simple: When businesses give, the world changes. Through his work, he empowers businesses to move beyond profit and create lasting, positive changes in the world.   Important Themes In This Episode Purpose Beyond Profit: Law firms should create meaningful impact, not just generate revenue. Human-Centred Law: Breathing humanity into law is not a nice-to-have, it's the future. Rethinking Success: The traditional model of legal success (billable hours, prestige) is outdated and damaging. Mental Health & Meaning: Disconnection from meaningful work is at the heart of the legal profession’s mental health crisis. The Power of Giving: Small, purposeful acts embedded in daily transactions can change the world. Legacy & Storytelling: The stories we tell and live shape generations to come. Memorable Quotes “Move from standard to stand out, because you stand for something bigger than yourself.” “When your vision becomes more powerful than your memory, your future becomes more powerful than your past.” “You don’t become a lawyer to fill out six-minute timesheets—you do it to change lives.” “Simple scales. Complex fails.” Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways Reframe Your Purpose: Write down why you do what you do. If it’s all about you, rewrite it. Aim for something bigger. Kill the Billable Hour: Paul echoes Ron Baker’s tombstone wish: “Here lies Ronald J. Baker, the man who killed the billable hour.” Measure What Matters: Stop only measuring tangible outputs. Track joy, connection, and human impact. Empathy as a Competitive Edge: Toward clients: "I see you." Toward employees: They’re your first clients. Toward yourself: Stop burning out for free. Adopt a Subscription Model: Law firms can and should ditch hourly billing in favour of outcome-based, client-aligned pricing. Start Giving Daily: Using platforms like B1G1, firms can embed micro-giving into their services—changing the lives of others with every transaction.   You can connect with Paul here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulb1g1/

And here we go! Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future! In its very first episode, Scott & Elizabeth tell you who they are and why they’re doing this podcast. They share their stories of burnout, how it shaped their careers, and why they feel so passionate about helping lawyers create successful AND happy careers. You’ll get to hear what this podcast is all about and some of the topics that will be discussed as this podcast evolves. Scott & Elizabeth also discuss: 💡The generations wars—why Gen Z are choosing a different way to work in the legal profession  💡What it means to start a law firm on your own 💡The importance of choice and leverage 💡Why having a legal career doesn’t mean you can’t experiment And you’ll find out the 4 questions they’ll be asking every guest who comes on to the show. Connect with Scott on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scotttherainmansimmons/ Connect with Elizabeth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-de-stadler/  

Hi, and welcome to Legal off the Leash, with your hosts, Elizabeth de Stadler and Scott Simmons.   Why are we doing this podcast?   We want to help create a legal profession filled with successful and happy lawyers.   Because we know lawyers are unhappy. And while most firms care about unhappy lawyers who leave, they should be just as worried about the ones who are staying. Presenteeism, or what some people call quiet quitting, costs the global economy about 9% of Global GDP. That is USD8.8 trillion. If the global legal market is USD797 billion, that means lawyers are pissing away [Elizabeth, where’s the calculator!]... ahem, a lot of money. Lawyers are bombarded with information about how to make themselves, their firms and their lives better. At the best of times it is just too earnest, at worst it is bewildering. In Legal Off The Leash we cut through the crap and talk honestly with a vast array of people who are cleverer than us about law, life, laughter and line dancing. We don't talk about line dancing, but we do talk far too much about Harry Potter. This podcast is about Elizabeth and Scott tearing each other new ***holes and interviewing guests about how to make firms and lawyers better and happier. It is a must-listen for any lawyer who isn’t a malignant narcissist. Actually they’re welcome too.