Next Man Up: An MCEL Podcast

About this EpisodeKareem Thomas, host of Next Man Up and The MCEL Podcast, sits down with Dr. Rodney Harrison and Barry Wilkins to explore the real lives of assistant principals. This conversation dives into leadership, identity, and the creation of safe, community-centered schools, while also shedding light on the daily challenges, rewards, and the necessity of leading with authenticity and prioritizing self-care.Key TakeawaysCommunity is the foundation of school cultureAuthentic leadership mattersAP's role is both a pipeline and a pressure cookerSelf-care is essential, not optionalAbout Barry WilkinsBarry Wilkins was born and raised in Philadelphia. He has spent nearly two decades in the financial sector, holding leadership roles in investment banking and wealth management. But in 2016, a shift in the national landscape forced a personal reckoning. He realized that the most important work wasn't in a boardroom; it was in our schools. His mission is to position our scholars for limitless success by investing in their social-emotional well-being, championing equity, and challenging them to be the architects of their wildest dreams. This means bridging the gap between economic opportunity and educational equity by leading rigorous, student-centered schools that serve as launchpads rather than holding cells. About Dr. Rodney Harrison Dr. Rodney Harrison is a student-centered educational leader with over seventeen years of experience spanning teaching, counseling, and school administration. Throughout his career, he has focused on elevating instructional practices, strengthening inclusive school cultures, and empowering both students and educators through data-driven decision-making and collaborative leadership. His journey from school counselor to assistant principal across multiple districts reflects his commitment to equity, professional growth, and creating thriving learning environments where every stakeholder feels supported and seen.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices of men of color in education. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, it explores the challenges and triumphs of educational leaders who drive systemic change. The podcast empowers current and aspiring leaders to embrace their power and make an impact.Learn More: To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠mcelleaders.org/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

About this EpisodeIn this Women’s History Month special episode of Next Man Up, Kareem Thomas is joined by Dr. Nadia Bennett and Natalie St. Louis for a powerful conversation on authenticity, resilience, and leadership. From overcoming barriers to uplifting leaders of color, they share real strategies for impact, mentorship, and sustainability in the work.About Natalie St. LouisNatalie St. Louis is an ICF-PCC Certified Executive Leadership Coach who supports education leaders through 1:1 coaching and professional development. Grounded in the International Coaching Federation Core Competencies and Code of Ethics, she helps leaders clarify their vision, align their values, and set meaningful goals while feeling seen, supported, and heard.With over 20 years in education, including more than a decade as a school leader, Natalie has led significant gains in student achievement and enrollment, earning recognition for driving turnaround success. Her experience spans roles as a teacher, reading specialist, instructional coach, staff developer, assistant principal, and principal.A 2018 Neubauer Fellow, Natalie holds two master’s degrees from Bank Street College and Teachers College, Columbia University, and is currently pursuing her doctorate at the University of Pennsylvania. She is also a proud wife and mother of two.About Dr. Nadia BennettDr. Nadia A. Bennett is the founder and CEO of When Brown Girls Lead®, a consulting firm focused on building equity-driven schools and districts nationwide. Through culturally relevant leadership development, she supports educators in creating anti-racist, high-impact learning environments.A former charter superintendent and principal, Dr. Bennett has a proven track record of driving results, doubling ELA scores, improving attendance and staff retention, and leading school turnaround efforts. Notably, she led Simon Gratz Mastery High School to the top of Philadelphia’s charter rankings during her tenure.Dr. Bennett holds degrees from Dillard University and Howard University, completed the Urban Superintendents Academy through AASA, and earned her doctorate as part of her ongoing commitment to educational excellence.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices of men of color in education. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, it explores the challenges and triumphs of educational leaders who drive systemic change. The podcast empowers current and aspiring leaders to embrace their power and make an impact.Learn More: To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠mcelleaders.org/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

About this EpisodeKareem Thomas, host of Next Man Up, The MCEL Podcast, sits down with Dr. Rodney Harrison and Barry Wilkins to explore the real life of assistant principals. This conversation dives into leadership, identity, and creating safe, community-centered schools, while also shedding light on the daily challenges, rewards, and the necessity of leading with authenticity and prioritizing self-care.Key TakeawaysCommunity is the foundation of school cultureAuthentic leadership mattersAP's role is both a pipeline and a pressure cookerSelf-care is essential, not optionalAbout Barry WilkinsBarry Wilkins was born and raised in Philadelphia. He has spent nearly two decades in the financial sector, holding leadership roles in investment banking and wealth management. But in 2016, a shift in the national landscape forced a personal reckoning. He realized that the most important work wasn't in a boardroom; it was in our schools. His mission is to position our scholars for limitless success by investing in their social-emotional well-being, championing equity, and challenging them to be the architects of their wildest dreams. This means bridging the gap between economic opportunity and educational equity by leading rigorous, student-centered schools that serve as launchpads, not holding cells. About Dr. Rodney Harrison Dr. Rodney Harrison is a student-centered educational leader with over seventeen years of experience spanning teaching, counseling, and school administration. Throughout his career, he has focused on elevating instructional practices, strengthening inclusive school cultures, and empowering both students and educators through data-driven decision-making and collaborative leadership. His journey from school counselor to assistant principal across multiple districts reflects his commitment to equity, professional growth, and creating thriving learning environments where every stakeholder feels supported and seen.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices of men of color in education. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, it explores the challenges and triumphs of educational leaders who drive systemic change. The podcast empowers current and aspiring leaders to embrace their power and make an impact.Learn More: To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠mcelleaders.org/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

About this EpisodeIn this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas speaks with guests Ray Pace and Dr. Wardell Hunter about the critical importance of leadership development programs for aspiring school leaders. They explore the frameworks for effective leadership training, the significance of mentoring and coaching, and the need for self-assessment and reflective conversations in preparing future leaders. The conversation also addresses the challenges faced by assistant principals and the importance of adaptability in diverse educational environments.Key TakeawaysReflective conversations help aspiring leaders understand their motivations.Self-assessment against leadership standards is essential for growth.Mentoring provides technical assistance, while coaching focuses on mindset.Transitioning to new roles can enhance leadership skills.About Raymond Roy-PaceRaymond Roy-Pace is an education leader and strategist with over 15 years of experience advancing instructional excellence, leadership development, and equity-driven school improvement. He currently serves as a Professional Learning Specialist for the School District of Philadelphia, where he leads large-scale leadership development for nearly 300 assistant principals across more than 200 schools.Ray’s career includes roles as a high school principal, assistant principal, adjunct professor, instructional coach, and classroom teacher. A national presenter and published contributor, his work focuses on developing culturally responsive leaders, strengthening leadership pipelines, and improving outcomes for students and educators.About Dr. Wardell HunterDr. Wardell Hunter is a seasoned education leader with over 25 years of experience serving schools across the metro-Atlanta area. He previously served as Director of Leadership Development for Atlanta Public Schools, where he supported aspiring principals, assistant principals, instructional leaders, and central office teams.Across his career, Dr. Hunter has held roles including principal (interim), assistant principal of instruction, academy leader for business and entrepreneurship, and instructional leader in both Atlanta Public Schools and DeKalb County Schools. His work centers on leadership development, instructional improvement, and building strong school-community partnerships to support student success.Dr. Hunter holds a doctorate in Educational Administration from Georgia Southern University and is a certified Gallup and John Maxwell Coach. He is deeply committed to developing effective, equity-focused leaders and improving outcomes in urban education. Outside of work, he enjoys spending time with his three sons and engaging in family activities.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices of men of color in education. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, it explores the challenges and triumphs of educational leaders who drive systemic change. The podcast empowers current and aspiring leaders to embrace their power and make an impact.Learn More: To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠mcelleaders.org/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

About this EpisodeIn this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas discusses the importance of social-emotional learning (SEL) in education with guests Errin Smith, Dr. Arman Lakes, and Dr. Chuck Curtis. They focus on SEL’s impact on young men of color, emphasizing how emotional well-being affects academic success. The conversation covers student support roles, common misconceptions about SEL, the challenges faced by care teams, and the need for self-care. The guests share personal insights and advice for aspiring educators, stressing the value of community commitment and understanding the complexities of their work.About Errin Smith Errin Smith is an educator and leader dedicated to empowering young Black men. A Hampton University graduate with a Master’s in Teacher Leadership, he began his teaching career in 2009. Errin became a founding staff member at Ron Brown College Preparatory High School in 2016, where he serves as Special Education Coordinator and Coach. His work focuses on emotional healing, restorative practices, and guiding young men through challenges while promoting accountability and growth. Errin’s leadership prioritizes equity, empowerment, and the creation of pathways for students’ success both in and beyond the classroom.About Dr. Arman Lakes Dr. Arman Lakes is the Director of School Redesign and CTE Academies at Ron Brown College Preparatory High School. He leads initiatives to improve academic and operational success, including retention strategies and professional development. Before this role, Dr. Lakes served as a school counselor, focusing on college readiness and early interventions. He holds a Doctorate in Educational Leadership from Howard University and is passionate about helping students unlock their unique potential for personal transformation.About Dr. Charles CurtisDr. Charles Curtis is a psychologist and restorative practitioner focused on the well-being of Black boys and men. A Morehouse College graduate, he earned his Ph.D. in Clinical and School Psychology from the University of Virginia. Dr. Curtis works at Ron Brown College Preparatory High School and maintains a private practice that offers culturally grounded counseling. His approach integrates healing, ancestral wisdom, and accountability to help Black individuals thrive.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices of men of color in education. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, it explores the challenges and triumphs of educational leaders who drive systemic change. The podcast empowers current and aspiring leaders to embrace their power and make an impact.

Summary:In this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas engages with Dr. Aaron Dukes and Mr. Brandon Johnson, two leaders who transitioned from school principal roles to central office positions. They discuss their personal journeys, the challenges of recognizing when to move on, the importance of mentorship, and how they apply skills from their principalship in their current roles. The conversation also touches on the need for authenticity in leadership, the impact of financial constraints on education, and strategies for supporting principals from a systems perspective. The episode concludes with reflections on defining success in leadership and recommendations for future guests.About our guests Dr. Aaron Dukes is a proud graduate of Alabama State University who has dedicated his career to helping schools become places where both children and adults can truly thrive. From teacher to principal to Chief Impact Officer, he’s learned that real transformation begins when people feel seen, valued, and trusted. His leadership is grounded in a deep belief in the power of culture, community, and purpose-driven action.Brandon Johnson is a dedicated educator with more than a decade of experience advancing equity and excellence in education. He began his career as a teacher and instructional math coach before becoming a Leader in Residence and later founding The Social Justice School, where he served as principal for six years. Under his leadership, the school grew into a thriving community grounded in justice, joy, and rigorous learning. Today, Brandon serves as the Managing Director of The Social Justice School, continuing his mission to empower educators and students to lead with purpose and impact.Key TakeawaysTransitioning from principal to district leadership is complex.Mentorship plays a crucial role in career advancement.Recognizing when to move on is essential for personal growth.Communication skills are vital in leadership roles.Empathy is key in supporting school leaders.Understanding systems is crucial for effective leadership.Feedback is essential for improvement and growth.Authenticity in leadership fosters trust and respect.Outcomes are a measure of leadership success.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders who break barriers and drive systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you’re a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make an impact. The next man up could be you!Learn More: To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit ⁠⁠⁠mcelleaders.org/podcast⁠⁠⁠ or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

Summary:In this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas sits down with Mario Jovan and Vincent Rawlings for a powerful and deeply reflective conversation about what it means to support LGBTQ+ students as male leaders of color. Together, they explore the intersections of identity, leadership, and advocacy, unpacking the challenges of fostering inclusivity within the education system. The discussion highlights the realities of political pushback, the critical role of empathy, and the responsibility of leaders to self-educate and confront bias. The episode concludes with an inspiring call to action, highlighting the growing allyship among students and the importance of recognizing the interconnectedness of all social issues.About our guestsMario Jovan ShawMario Jovan Shaw is an artist, storyteller, and leadership coach committed to empowering social impact leaders. A former 7th-grade teacher in Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools, he founded The Brotherhood to support young Black males. He later co-founded Profound Gentlemen, which retains 98% of male educators of color each year. Inspired by his own coaching journey, he launched Messy Roots to help leaders grow with authenticity and purpose. A Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree in Social Impact, Mario is also a mindfulness practitioner, a 200-hour RYT yoga instructor, and the author of The Inside Out Journal.Vincent RawlingsVincent Rawlings is a proud Washingtonian, educator, and advocate for equity and social justice. A Teach for America alumnus and current Principal-in-Residence at KIPP DC College Preparatory High School, he has led efforts to recruit and develop Black male educators and create affirming spaces for LGBTQ youth, including founding the Gay Black Boy Society. Guided by his belief in education as a means of liberation, Rawlings aspires to establish a school for young men of color, centered on social justice, identity, and political empowerment.TakeawaysLeadership is about ensuring every child feels safe, seen, and supported.Navigating identity as a male leader of color involves recognizing the humanity of all students.Creating inclusive spaces is essential for the well-being of LGBTQ+ students.Challenging personal biases is crucial for effective leadership in education.Political pushback can hinder discussions about LGBTQ+ issues in schools.Empathy and emotional intelligence are vital for leaders in education.Students are increasingly becoming allies for their peers in the LGBTQ+ community.Educators must educate themselves on issues affecting all students, particularly those from marginalized groups.The interconnectedness of social issues means addressing all forms of discrimination.Hope lies in the allyship and support of students for their LGBTQ+ peers.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders who break barriers and drive systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you’re a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make an impact. The next man up could be you!Learn More: To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit ⁠⁠mcelleaders.org/podcast⁠⁠ or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

Summary:In this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas engages with Dr. Jacob Waites and Joseph Speight to discuss the significance of affinity spaces in education, particularly for educators who are men of color. They explore the definition of affinity spaces, their importance in fostering community and a sense of belonging, and the challenges educators face in today's political climate. The conversation also highlights the role of families and students in advocating for educational equity, as well as the need for innovative solutions to support educators of color.About Joseph Speight Joseph E. Speight Jr. is a visionary educator and equity-driven leader dedicated to transforming outcomes for historically underserved communities. He currently serves as Deputy Chief Academic Officer, guiding instructional strategy, curriculum, and educator effectiveness to advance student achievement.Joseph is the Co-Founder of Statesmen College Preparatory Academy for Boys in Washington, DC, and the National Association of Black Male Educators (NABME), a national network committed to increasing the presence and impact of Black male educators. He also leads as Executive Director of the Black Male Teacher Residency, a pioneering program that recruits, develops, and retains Black male teachers through culturally responsive pathways and support.He holds a B.S. from Virginia State University, dual M.S. degrees from Nyack College and Trinity Washington University, and an Executive Master of Leadership from Georgetown University.About Jacob Waites Dr. Jacob Waites is a dedicated educator from Philadelphia. He has served as a teacher, dean, and principal, making a significant impact on local schools. He earned his undergraduate degree from Cheyney University, a master's from American University,  and a doctorate from Northeastern University. His commitment to education emphasizes the importance of representation, particularly for Black and Brown students, reflecting a broader movement to increase diversity among educators.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders who break barriers and drive systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you're a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make an impact. The next man up could be you!To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

Summary:In this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas engages with educational leaders Justin Sinclair and Dr. Harold McCray to discuss the challenges and strategies of school transformation, the importance of self-care for leaders, and the need for culturally responsive education. They share personal journeys, insights on effective leadership, and the significance of community involvement in educational initiatives. The conversation highlights the delicate balance between driving change in schools and maintaining personal well-being, providing practical advice for new leaders in the field.About Dr. Harold McCray, Jr. Dr. Harold McCray, Jr. is a Philadelphia native and veteran educator with over 21 years of experience in K–12 education. He currently serves as the founding principal of MacArthur High School in Washington, D.C. A champion for equity and excellence, Dr. McCray focuses on creating safe, high-quality learning environments—especially for Black boys.He holds degrees from Delaware State University, Bowie State University, and Walden University, and has served in roles ranging from classroom teacher to district leader. Beyond the school walls, he's a best-selling co-author of Girl Dad, a mentor, speaker, and recipient of Bowie State's Outstanding Principal of the Year award.Dr. McCray is also a proud husband and father of three daughters.About Justin Sinclair Justin Sinclair, M.Ed., MSW, is the President of Epiphany Education, an organization focused on empowering educators and leaders in the post-pandemic era. With over a decade of experience as a school administrator and leadership coach, Justin has successfully transformed schools academically and culturally. He also facilitates national and local conferences.Specializing in supporting burned-out and new teachers, Justin’s team integrates wellness strategies to care for the "whole child and whole adult." His human-centered approach, which values personal wellness alongside professional growth, has been pivotal to Epiphany Education's success in helping schools and districts meet their unique goals.TakeawaysThe importance of creating and sustaining affinity spaces in education.School transformation requires a holistic and systemic approach.Culturally responsive education is essential for serving students of color.Listening to the voices of students and the community is crucial in transformation efforts.Self-care is a non-negotiable for effective leadership.Leaders must model the behavior they want to see in their staff.Building a culture of self-care can enhance staff well-being and effectiveness.Delegation is key to preventing burnout among school leaders.Setting firm boundaries is essential for maintaining personal health.Understanding your 'why' can sustain you through challenges.About the PodcastNext Man Up, hosted by Kareem Thomas, amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Learn More: To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit ⁠mcelleaders.org/podcast⁠ or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

Summary: In the season two premiere of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas welcomes Harrison Peters, co-founder and CEO of MCEL, to discuss the current state of the organization and its initiatives. They delve into the National Leadership Institute, its core principles, and the importance of community among leaders of color. The conversation also covers the competencies framework for leaders, the application process for the next cohort, and highlights from the recent Leaders Developing Leaders Summit. Finally, they discuss the upcoming National Convening and share insights on resilience and leadership for the new school year.Key Takeaways:The National Leadership Institute focuses on personal growth and leadership identity.Cohorts create a supportive community for leaders of color.Self, site, and system are critical pillars of leadership development.Leaders of color face unique challenges in their professional journeys.The importance of accountability in educational leadership is emphasized.The application for the next cohort opens in November.The Leaders Developing Leaders Summit fosters collaboration among educational leaders.The National Convening is a key event for networking and professional development.Resilience and grace are essential qualities for educators in today's world.Understanding the assignment means prioritizing the needs of students.Quote Worthy:"The principal role is a critical cheerleader.""We believe that the answer was in the room.""We have to understand that it's not about us."About Harrison PetersbeganHarrison Peters is the CEO and Co-founder of Men of Color in Educational Leadership (MCEL) and a former State Turnaround Superintendent of Providence Public Schools. Inspired by teachers who believed in him, he grew up in Pensacola, Florida, raised by his grandmother with limited education, which fueled his passion for advocating for children nationwide. Harrison started his career as an elementary teacher. He advanced into leadership roles across major school districts, including Charlotte-Mecklenburg, Chicago, Houston, Hillsborough County, and Providence, where he helped transform struggling schools. His achievements include improving graduation rates, ACT scores, and reducing achievement gaps. A Navy veteran, he holds degrees from the University of West Florida, Nova Southeastern University, and the University of South Florida. Passionate about student success, Harrison believes in unlocking every child's potential through support and dedicated leadership.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders who break barriers and drive systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you're a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make a meaningful impact. The next man up could be you!Learn MoreTo learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

Episode SummaryIn this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas speaks with Dr. Paul Cruz, a seasoned educator and former superintendent, about his journey in education, the challenges men of color face, and career advancement strategies. Dr. Cruz emphasizes the importance of mentorship, the need for an accepting culture in schools, and the evolving landscape of education in the age of AI and virtual learning. He shares personal anecdotes and insights on leadership, readiness for advancement, and the future of education.Key Takeaways:Dr. Cruz is the first Hispanic superintendent of the Austin School District.Opportunity is crucial for men of color in education.Mentorship plays a vital role in career advancement.Building relationships is essential for success in education.Retention of men of color requires an accepting culture.Understanding one's values is key to leadership readiness.The pandemic posed significant challenges for educators.Education must adapt to the changing needs of consumers.Dr. Cruz emphasizes the importance of problem-solving in leadership.Personal stories and connections enhance leadership effectiveness.Quote Worthy:"I was the first Hispanic superintendent.""It's always about opportunity.""You have to own it.""The culture needs to be accepting.""Reaching out is that one.""It's a people business.""What do they want? Let's give it to them."About Dr. Paul Cruz Dr. Paul Cruz served as the co-director of the Cooperative Superintendency Program (CSP) and a Professor of Practice with the University of Texas at Austin.  The CSP doctoral program prepares future school superintendents and executive leaders.  He has 38 years of experience in K-12 education, working in many positions, including teacher, campus administrator, associate superintendent, chief schools officer, deputy commissioner at the Texas Education Agency, and superintendent of schools in the Austin ISD.  In the Austin ISD, he provided instructional leadership for approximately 81,000 students in more than 120 campuses with a workforce of over 11,500 employees. Dr. Cruz received his Ph.D. in educational leadership from the University of Texas at Austin and was a fellow in the CSP.  He received a Bachelor of Science degree in education from the University of Texas at Austin, specializing in English, and a Master of Science degree in educational administration from Corpus Christi State University.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders breaking barriers and driving systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you’re a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make an impact. The next man up could be you!Learn MoreTo learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

Summary:In this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas engages with three  Philadelphia educators—Will Lawrence, Will Brown, and Vance McNear—to discuss their journeys in educational leadership, the challenges they face as men of color, and the importance of branding schools to attract families. The conversation also delves into the potential impact of eliminating the Department of Education, the significance of representation in schools, and self-care strategies for educators. The episode concludes with light-hearted discussions about cultural icons and personal dinner guests.About William BrownWill Brown is a proud Philadelphia native and dedicated educational leader committed to equity, empowerment, and community impact. A graduate of Kirkbride Elementary and Central High School, his passion for education was sparked through his experience as a peer educator in a local community organization, where he discovered his talent for inspiring youth.Initially studying Business Management at Mansfield University, his work with young people led him to pursue a Master’s in Elementary Education and a Principal’s Certification from the University of Pennsylvania. He was also honored with the Priscilla Dawson Alumni Award for his leadership and service.Will has held various roles in Philadelphia’s schools, including teacher and Assistant Principal at Jules E. Mastbaum AVTS, and currently serves as Principal of Parkway West High School. An advocate for careers in education, he champions the profession as a powerful way to shape futures and communities. In 2025, he was named Philadelphia Academies Inc.’s Educator of the Year.About Vance McNearVance McNear is the principal of Edwin Forrest Elementary in Philadelphia, with 18 years of experience in urban education as a teacher, administrator, and leader. A passionate advocate for children and equity, he is committed to creating a safe, supportive environment where all students can thrive. Vance is a member of the Philadelphia Academy of School Leaders' Instructional Leadership Academy (ILA), which focuses on strengthening instructional systems with an equity lens, in partnership with Achievement Network (ANet). He has shared his expertise on panels about instructional leadership and curriculum implementation. Outside of work, Vance is married to Shaquina, an assistant principal, and they have five children. He’s also active as a softball coach and in community sports organizations.About William Lawrence William Lawrence has served as Principal of John Marshall Elementary in Philadelphia’s Frankford community for the past 8 years. He firmly believes in “Culture for Service and Service to Humanity,” shaping programs that meet community needs. His leadership emphasizes collective empowerment and supporting the next generation.Under his guidance, student outcomes in ELA and Math improved by 15%, suspensions decreased by 35%, and attendance increased by 20%. He has received awards, including the Lindback Award for Distinguished Leadership in 2025, the Shining Light Award, and “Most Impactful” from the Turnaround Network.Will’s passion for education began at age 14, and he has dedicated his career to inspiring students and mentoring over 100 young men. He works to increase Black Male recruitment and support he community through food drives, school supplies, and holiday toy donations. A family man and fitness enthusiast, Will values helping others and believes there is “nothing for us, without us.”About the PodcastNext Man Up, hosted by Kareem Thomas, amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Learn MoreTo learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

In this dynamic episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas sits down with two influential superintendents, Dr. Donald Fennoy and Dr. Howard Hepburn, for a powerful and deeply personal conversation about leadership, legacy, and the journey of men of color in education.Together, they share defining moments that shaped their leadership—from navigating the aftermath of the Parkland tragedy and the pandemic to making courageous, values-driven decisions in highly polarized times. They explore how cultural identity and upbringing influence leadership philosophy, why mentorship must be rooted in trust and honesty, and how authentic relationships create stronger, more resilient leaders.Dr. Fennoy and Dr. Hepburn remind us that building community, celebrating one another, and prioritizing self-care are not optional—they are essential to thriving in leadership and life.If you’re seeking genuine insights into leadership, growth, and lifting others as you ascend, this episode is packed with wisdom, introspection, and motivation.Key Takeaways:Leadership is Shaped by Life Experience Leadership Requires Risk-TakingAuthentic Relationships Matter Social Capital is CrucialFeedback is a Catalyst for GrowthLeaders Must Serve FirstFatherhood and Community Building are CentralQuote Worthy:“Feedback is a gift that helps you get better.”“Scared money don’t make money.”“Leadership isn’t about a title—it’s about serving people.”“Our communities will never get better unless we take care of our children.”“Be bold enough to step into rooms where you’re uncomfortable.”“Leadership without authenticity is hollow.”About Dr. Donald Fennoy, II Dr. Donald E. Fennoy II is the former 26th Superintendent of the A-rated School District of Palm Beach County, the 10th-largest district in the nation, with over 193,000 students and a $3.5 billion budget. Throughout his career, he has held key leadership roles, including Chief Operating Officer in Palm Beach County and Senior Area Superintendent for Fulton County Schools, earning recognition for improving academic, operational, and financial outcomes. Dr. Fennoy is a Broad Academy fellow, a graduate of Leadership Florida's Executive Class X, and a member of the Future Chiefs for Change cohort. An alumnus of Florida A&M University, he also holds a Master’s and Doctorate in Educational Leadership from the University of Central Florida. Today, Dr. Fennoy serves as a Superintendent in Residence while remaining a dedicated husband and father.About Dr. Howard HepburnDr. Howard Hepburn, Superintendent of Broward County Public Schools, is a seasoned educator with over two decades of experience. Recognized as a change leader, Dr. Hepburn is committed to closing achievement gaps, expanding access to accelerated courses, and empowering socio-economically challenged communities to exceed expectations. He previously served as Deputy Superintendent of Teaching and Learning for BCPS and held leadership roles in the School District of Palm Beach County. Dr. Hepburn holds a Bachelor of Science and a Master of Education from the University of Central Florida, as well as a Doctorate in Educational Leadership from Florida Southern College.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders breaking barriers and driving systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you’re a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make an impact. The next man up could be you!Learn MoreTo learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

In this powerful episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas sits down with Dr. Courtney Curtis, Dr. Javan Childs, and Gene Renoir for an honest and deeply insightful conversation about what it means to lead as Black men in education. Together, they unpack the profound role mentorship has played in shaping their leadership journeys, the importance of having mentors who understand the nuances of their lived experiences, and how their connection with EMCEL has fortified both their professional growth and personal well-being.The discussion highlights the intentionality behind building a brotherhood that prioritizes accountability, trust, and vulnerability. The guests share real talk on the emotional labor of leadership, the need for safe spaces, and how leaders must also care for themselves to sustain their impact. The episode wraps up with a lighthearted segment featuring dream dinner guests and meaningful recommendations for future voices on the show.Key Takeaways:Mentorship rooted in shared experience fosters deeper growth and trustVulnerability is a powerful leadership tool, not a weaknessSafe spaces and brotherhood enhance resilience in leadershipSelf-care isn’t optional—it’s essentialAccountability and continuous learning are key to evolving as a leaderQuote Worthy:“It’s okay not to know.”“You have to weigh the impact.”“You have to be very tactful.”About Dr. Javan Childs, Sr. Dr. Javan Childs, Sr. serves as Assistant Superintendent of Human Resources in Fresno Unified School District. Over his 14-year career, he has held roles from teacher to principal, athletic director to coach. A published scholar, Dr. Childs has written on educational leadership, including a program evaluation of MCEL and a featured article in ASCD on mentoring Black male leaders.About Dr. Courtney Curtis Dr. Courtney Curtis is the principal of Hoover High School in Fresno, CA, with over 20 years of experience spanning classroom teaching, coaching, and district leadership. Passionate about equity and student success, he’s active in organizations like MCEL and AAPU and is currently pursuing USC’s Urban Superintendents Program. Guided by the values of love and excellence, Dr. Curtis is committed to creating transformative educational environments.About Eugene “Gene” RenoirGene Reinor is the principal of Fort Miller Middle School in Fresno Unified and has been an educator for 15 years. With a background in teaching and leadership development, Gene has supported new administrators, facilitated equity initiatives, and contributed to Fresno Unified’s Equity-Centered Principal Pipeline. He’s passionate about building inclusive school cultures that empower both staff and students.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders breaking barriers and driving systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you’re a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make an impact. The next man up could be you!Learn MoreTo learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

SummaryIn this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas sits down with Dr. Dwayne Chism and Dr. Jayson Strickland for a powerful conversation on how mentorship and coaching have shaped their journeys as men of color in educational leadership. Together, they unpack the challenges of navigating predominantly white spaces, the distinction between coaching and mentorship, and why representation and vulnerability are vital to leadership growth.Listeners will gain insights into the emotional and strategic demands of leadership, including the importance of aligning with core values, maintaining a strong support network, and prioritizing self-care. Whether you’re an emerging leader or a seasoned educator, this episode offers the encouragement and strategies needed to thrive—and to bring others with you.Key Takeaways:Mentorship and representation are powerful catalysts for leadership success.Leaders of color must be intentional in their preparation and presence.Vulnerability and authenticity are strengths, not liabilities.Self-care and a strong network are essential for sustainable leadership.When leaders share their success stories, others are inspired to rise.Quote Worthy:“Am I my brother’s keeper? Yes, I am.”“You have to understand what’s at your core.”About Dr. Dwayne Chism Dwayne Chism, Ed.D., is a former Dean of the School of Education at Peru State College. He teaches at the University of Nebraska in Omaha, which honored him with the Distinguished Alumni Award in 2013-2014. Dr. Chism founded Shifting Perspectives, Inc. in 2018 as a company dedicated to growing leaders and helping schools reach equitable outcomes for all learners. He has authored several articles for the Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development (ASCD), including a book in 2022, Leading Your School Toward Equity, a finalist for the Excellence in Equity Award presented by the American Consortium for Equity in Education.About Dr. Jayson StricklandDr. Jayson Strickland is a nationally recognized educational leader and consultant with over 25 years of experience in urban education. Throughout his career, he has served as a classroom teacher, school administrator, principal supervisor, and superintendent. He is the founder of Head, Heart and Soul, LLC, a company dedicated to redesigning educational systems, providing strategic planning support to school systems and non-profits, and offering executive leadership coaching to leaders across the nation. In addition, Dr. Strickland co-founded NextPitch, a platform that empowers educators and learners by incentivizing transformative classroom instruction, entrepreneurial problem solving, and promoting global engagement, furthering his commitment to innovative leadership and education reform. His dissertation, which explored the relationship between leadership, emotional intelligence, and effective teams, forms the foundation of his philosophy on educational change. He also serves on MCEL’s Executive Committee.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders breaking barriers and driving systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you’re a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make an impact. The next man up could be you!

SummaryIn this special episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas sits down with two groundbreaking superintendents, Misty Herr and Theresa Plasencia, to explore their leadership journeys in education. As women of color in top positions, they share their experiences navigating challenges, advocating for diversity, and fostering inclusive leadership.The discussion highlights the importance of representation, the political realities of education leadership, and the ongoing efforts to recruit and retain men of color in the field. They also emphasize the role of community support, the power of personal experience in shaping leadership, and the collective responsibility to empower future education leaders.Key Takeaways:Representation in leadership transforms education.Quiet individuals can make powerful, insightful leaders.Political challenges are a reality in educational leadership.Strong community support drives student and school success.Recruiting diverse leaders requires intentionality and action.Empowering future leaders is a shared responsibility.Every student, regardless of background, deserves access to quality education.Trust-building within the community is essential for progress.Leadership means making tough but necessary decisions.Quote Worthy:“I see myself in their eyes.”“Don’t let anyone dim your fire.”“We need you in these spaces.”About Misty HerMisty Her was born in a POW camp in Laos during the Vietnam War and fled with her family to a Thai refugee camp before resettling in the U.S. in 1980. Growing up in Fresno, California, she developed a passion for education that led her to earn a BA in Liberal Studies and a master’s in Administration and Supervision from Fresno State University. She began her career as an elementary teacher and made history as the first Hmong Vice Principal and later the first Hmong Woman Principal in the U.S. Rising through leadership, she became Fresno Unified School District’s Instructional Superintendent in 2011, Deputy Superintendent in 2021, and Interim Superintendent in 2024. Misty is a dedicated mentor and advocate for educational equity. Her contributions have earned her numerous accolades, including the 2019 California Woman of the Year for Outstanding Service in Education and the 2022 Marjaree Mason Top Ten Woman Award. Passionate about the transformative power of education, she remains devoted to empowering students, investing in their success, and shaping the future of learning.About Theresa PlascenciaTheresa Plascencia has dedicated her career to social activism and educational equity, inspired by her grandfather’s belief in giving back to society. She earned a BA in from DePaul University, a Master’s in Education Leadership from Loyola University, and is a doctorate candidate at National-Louis University. With a career spanning Chicago Public Schools—overseeing 29 schools—and Waukegan Public Schools, where she became Superintendent in 2016, Plascencia has been a leader in shaping student success. Her contributions to education have been recognized with an Equity Award from ALAS, and she serves on its Advisory Policy Committee as well as the National Advisory Committee for the Men of Color Education in Leadership. About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders breaking barriers and driving systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you’re a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make an impact. The next man up could be you!Learn MoreTo learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

In this episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas sits down with Ike Ramos, a former educator turned EdTech leader, to discuss his dynamic journey from hip-hop artist to school principal to a driving force in educational technology. Ike shares his experiences integrating hip-hop culture into education, the challenges and triumphs of transitioning into leadership roles, and the innovative potential of EdTech—especially the use of virtual reality to revolutionize math and science learning for students of color. The conversation highlights the importance of mentorship, self-care, and preparing the next generation of educational leaders.Key Takeaways:Hip-hop culture can serve as a powerful tool for student engagement and learning.Strong relationships between educators and students enhance learning experiences.Innovation in teaching methods can significantly impact student success.The EdTech sector presents vast opportunities for educators.Virtual reality has the potential to transform math and science education.Quote Worthy:"Hip hop tells stories we can all relate to.""I would bring Jay-Z to dinner."About Ike RamosJon “Ike” Ramos is a dynamic sales leader and former educator committed to transforming K-12 education through innovative technology. As Head of Sales at Prisms VR, he leverages his deep expertise to drive engagement and learning outcomes in schools nationwide. With nearly a decade of experience at Flocabulary, Nearpod, and Renaissance, Jon has been instrumental in integrating technology to enhance student success. A former K-12 principal, he combines his passion for education, equity, and advocacy to expand accessibility in both learning and mental health. His mission remains clear: to empower educators and students through meaningful innovation.About the PodcastNext Man Up amplifies the voices and experiences of men of color in educational leadership. Hosted by Kareem Thomas, the podcast explores the triumphs, challenges, and pivotal moments that shape leaders breaking barriers and driving systemic change in education. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Next Man Up inspires listeners to embrace their unique power, build community, and foster mentorship. Whether you’re a current leader, aspiring changemaker, or ally, this podcast will empower you to step up and make an impact. The next man up could be you!Learn MoreTo learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

In this powerful episode of Next Man Up, Kareem Thomas sits down with Dr. Erick Pruitt to discuss his incredible journey from serving in the Marine Corps to leading as the Superintendent of Schools in Ankeny, Iowa. Dr. Pruitt shares the lessons he’s learned navigating leadership as a Black man in education, the importance of mentorship, and the discipline required to maintain both mental and physical well-being in a demanding role. The conversation also dives into how to build strong relationships with school boards, take initiative in career advancement, and leave a lasting impact on students, educators, and communities.Key Takeaways: Confidence is crucial when stepping into new environments Mental and physical health matter Self-care fuels sustainability in leadership. School board relationships are critical  Legacy is about impact Balance serious work with lighthearted momentsQuote Worthy: "I want my legacy to be that I've had an impact."About Dr. Erick PruittDr. Erick Pruitt is the superintendent of Ankeny Community School District, where he has led initiatives to develop a new Strategic Plan, DEI Framework, and Graduate Profile. With 25 years of experience as a teacher, principal, and district leader, he has been instrumental in shaping strategic plans that prioritize diversity, equity, and inclusion while fostering high-quality instruction and strong stakeholder relationships. A native of Indianapolis, IN, and a proud U.S. Marine Corps veteran, Dr. Pruitt holds degrees from Purdue University, Loyola University Chicago, and National Louis University. He has been married to his wife, Kenya, a counselor, for 29 years, and they are the proud parents of five children.Learn MoreTo learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

Summary In this continuation of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas reconnects with MCEL co-founders Harrison Peters and Steve Gering for Part 2 of their powerful discussion on mentorship and leadership for male leaders of color. Building upon the insights from the first episode, they dive deeper into the importance of fostering a strong community, the role of honest feedback, and the ways in which the National Leadership Institute is shaping the future of educational leadership. This episode highlights the need for resilience, networking, and investing in leadership development to break systemic barriers and create lasting impact. Key Takeaways: Mentorship offers vital guidance through personal relationships and shared experiences. Understanding systemic barriers and the "rules of engagement" is crucial for success. Being open to change and feedback enhances leadership effectiveness. A strong support network accelerates career and personal growth. Leadership development is an investment with lasting returns. Every male leader of color plays a role in building a powerful legacy. Quote Worthy: "You have to look in the mirror and get better." "We want male leaders of color at the table." About Harrison Peters Harrison Peters is the CEO and Co-founder of Men of Color in Educational Leadership (MCEL) and a former State Turnaround Superintendent of Providence Public Schools. His passion for education stems from teachers who shaped his life, instilling in him the belief that words and actions deeply impact children. Over two decades, Harrison has held key leadership roles in districts across the country, including Charlotte, Chicago, Houston, Hillsborough County (Tampa), and Providence, driving transformative outcomes such as improved graduation rates, reduced achievement gaps, and record-breaking student success. A proud Navy veteran, he also played a pivotal role in securing the largest bond in Texas history while serving in Houston. Harrison holds degrees in Elementary Education and Educational Leadership and remains committed to unlocking the limitless potential within every child. About Steve Gering Steve Gering is a career educator with over 40 years of experience in teaching, administration, and leadership development in urban and suburban districts. He led the First Things First reform effort in Kansas City, which significantly improved student achievement and earned national recognition. Recruited by Arne Duncan in 2008, Steve spearheaded Chicago Public Schools' High School Transformational efforts, including the Freshman on Track strategy that improved graduation rates and ACT scores. As chief leadership development officer, he launched the Chicago Leadership Collaborative to prepare 100 new principals annually and developed the Chicago Executive Leadership Academy to train regional leaders. Recognized as an expert in leadership capacity building, Steve's work has consistently driven improvements in student outcomes. Learn More To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.

In this inaugural episode of Next Man Up, host Kareem Thomas dives into an inspiring conversation with Harrison Peters and Steve Gehring, co-founders of the Men of Color Educational Leadership (MCEL). Together, they unpack the challenges men of color face in educational leadership, the necessity of creating safe spaces for authenticity, and the transformative power of diversity in leadership roles. Their personal stories and reflections underscore the importance of mentorship, allyship, and systemic change to foster more equitable and impactful education systems. Tune in to hear why "the next man up could be you." Key Takeaways: Leadership for men of color requires authenticity and vulnerability. Allies are critical advocates in breaking systemic barriers. Diverse leadership drives better outcomes for students. Mentorship and collaboration are key to empowering the next generation. Leaders must embrace their unique paths and step into their power. Quote Worthy: "Leaders lead, and we have to take action." "The next man up could be you." "It's about serving kids." About Harrison Peters Harrison Peters is the CEO and Co-founder of Men of Color in Educational Leadership (MCEL) and a former State Turnaround Superintendent of Providence Public Schools. His passion for education stems from teachers who shaped his life, instilling in him the belief that words and actions deeply impact children. Over two decades, Harrison has held key leadership roles in districts across the country, including Charlotte, Chicago, Houston, Hillsborough County (Tampa), and Providence, driving transformative outcomes such as improved graduation rates, reduced achievement gaps, and record-breaking student success. A proud Navy veteran, he also played a pivotal role in securing the largest bond in Texas history while serving in Houston. Harrison holds degrees in Elementary Education and Educational Leadership and remains committed to unlocking the limitless potential within every child. About Steve Gering Steve Gering is a career educator with over 40 years of experience in teaching, administration, and leadership development in urban and suburban districts. He led the First Things First reform effort in Kansas City, which significantly improved student achievement and earned national recognition. Recruited by Arne Duncan in 2008, Steve spearheaded Chicago Public Schools' High School Transformational efforts, including the Freshman on Track strategy that improved graduation rates and ACT scores. As chief leadership development officer, he launched the Chicago Leadership Collaborative to prepare 100 new principals annually and developed the Chicago Executive Leadership Academy to train regional leaders. Recognized as an expert in leadership capacity building, Steve's work has consistently driven improvements in student outcomes. Learn More To learn more about the Next Man Up podcast or to be a guest, visit mcelleaders.org/podcast or follow us on social media at @mcelleaders.