Night Owls

In this episode of Night Owls, Joe Klein and John Ellis talk with political economist Nicholas Eberstadt about his latest book: a collection of essays entitled America’s Human Arithmetic. One of those essays -- 'Our Miserable 21st Century' -- remains the most read "article" in the long history of Commentary magazine. In the book, Eberstadt argues that while the U.S. is more prosperous than ever, tens of millions of Americans are not flourishing. The conversation explores how cultural erosion, not just economics, drives these trends, touching on the collapse of community, failures in education, the unintended consequences of welfare and disability systems and the astonishing rise of men in their prime working years who don't work. Eberstadt describes stark geographic and demographic divides as well, while maintaining cautious optimism about America’s resilience, entrepreneurial energy, and capacity for renewal.Hosted by John Ellis and Joe KleinSanity Clause on SubstackNews Items on SubstackProduced by Dale Eisinger

In this episode of Night Owls, John Ellis and Joe Klein sit down with retired Lieutenant General Michael Fenzel for a discussion about war, from Desert Storm to Afghanistan and Iraq to what we now call Gulf War 3. Fenzel's career in the military was shaped by war’s evolution and its enduring unpredictability. The conversation addresses Iran’s military calculus, the growing dominance of proxy warfare, and why today’s battlefields extend from the Strait of Hormuz to outer space. Along the way, Fenzel offers candid assessments of leadership, fragile ceasefires, and the limits of diplomacy in an age of permanent tension. About war, he says, there is one central truth: the battle plan is the first casualty.Hosted by John Ellis and Joe KleinSanity Clause on SubstackNews Items on SubstackProduced by Dale Eisinger

In episode 75 of Night Owls, John Ellis and Joe Klein pour a late-night double of geopolitics, economics, and technological dread. The conversation opens with President Trump’s latest press conference on Iran, where the rhetoric is hot, the implications hotter, and the margin for miscalculation somewhere between “razor-thin” and “catastrophic.” Ellis and Klein unpack the strange chessboard of Middle Eastern politics, where every move, whether military, rhetorical, or symbolic, reverberates through Israel’s strategic calculus, Iran’s internal factions, and America’s appetite for risk.Back home, the mood doesn’t exactly lighten. Inflation continues its slow, grinding assault on American consumers, turning everyday purchases into small existential crises. Meanwhile, artificial intelligence looms over the labor market like an unpaid intern who just learned how to do your job better than you can. Ellis and Klein explore what happens when automation stops being theoretical and starts quietly rearranging reality.Then comes the truly unnerving frontier: deepfakes. In a world where seeing is no longer believing, the hosts examine how synthetic media threatens to collapse the already fragile boundary between truth and fiction, and what that means for democracy, journalism, and basic sanity.Finally, the episode closes with a reflection on Jesse Jackson’s political legacy and the shifting power dynamics inside a Democratic Party that seems, depending on the day, either on the brink of reinvention or total confusion.Hosted by John Ellis and Joe KleinSanity Clause on SubstackNews Items on SubstackProduced by Dale Eisinger

In the 2026 premier of Night Owls, John Ellis and Joe Klein recap Trump's first year of his second first term as president. The discussion begins with Trump's behavior at the recent Davos conference, which raised more concerns about the president's mental "capacity". They wonder when the "elite" news media is going to address the "mental capacity" issue directly. Moving right along, they consider the Republican and Democratic parties' challenges leading up to the 2026 elections, the importance of cultural issues and the Democratic Party's over-optimism about "the affordability crisis." The conversation also highlights education reforms in Mississippi, ongoing international conflicts, and the rise of AI technology.  A lightning round closes the episode, with the hosts selecting their favorite books, movies, series, and sports moments of 2025.Hosted by John Ellis and Joe KleinSanity Clause on SubstackNews Items on SubstackProduced by Dale Eisinger

In this episode of Night Owls, hosts John Ellis and Joe Klein discuss a range of political topics, focusing on Donald Trump's recent behavior, mental health, and the implications for the Republican Party. They explore the political landscape, including the dynamics of the upcoming elections, Trump's foreign policy regarding Ukraine, and the economic challenges facing the nation, such as healthcare and affordability. The conversation also touches on the impact of artificial intelligence on employment and concludes with year-end personal reflections on cultural issues and recommendations for books and movies.Hosted by John Ellis and Joe KleinSanity Clause on SubstackNews Items on Substack

In this episode of Night Owls, John Ellis and Joe Klein engage with Cade Metz, a technology correspondent for The New York Times, discussing the evolution and implications of artificial intelligence. They explore Metz's journey in AI journalism, the financial investments in AI development, the competition between the US and China in AI capabilities, and the philosophical questions surrounding AI consciousness. The conversation also touches on the political landscape of Silicon Valley, the challenges of regulating AI, and the environmental concerns associated with data centers. Metz provides insights into the advancements in robotics and the influence of the rationalist community on AI development, concluding with a discussion on the future of AI and its societal impact.

In this episode of "Night Owls," hosts John Ellis and Joe Klein discuss the recent election results, highlighting the Democratic Party's significant victories across various states, including Georgia and Pennsylvania. They explore the implications of these results on the political landscape, particularly focusing on the impact of cultural and economic issues. The conversation delves into the role of Donald Trump in the elections, the dynamics within the Republican Party, and the potential future of the Democratic Party. The hosts also touch on the challenges faced by newly elected officials, such as Zohran Mamdani in New York, and the broader implications for upcoming elections.

In this episode, John Ellis and Joe Klein discuss the current political landscape, focusing on the endorsement of Andrew Cuomo for mayor of New York, the challenges facing the Democratic Party, and the implications of cultural issues on upcoming elections. They also delve into international topics such as Iran's political situation, the energy crisis related to AI, and the competitive edge of China's manufacturing. The conversation wraps up with insights on tariff policies and their impact on agriculture, as well as the future of the Democratic Party.

Podcasts like this one are sometimes called "wide-ranging discussions".Joe and John cover a lot of ground: genomics, AI, reckless leadership, tariffs, military service, freedom of speech, bags of money, private equity, woebegone Democrats, and China's seemingly endless property crisis. They even talk about Kamala Harris's new book. Listen in. 

Today, on episode 68 of Night Owls, Joe Klein is joined by a very special guest: H.R. McMaster. A graduate of Westpoint, he served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and retains distinguished careers in military leadership, policy, and history. His book Dereliction of Duty, a critical account of the Vietnam war, has become required reading throughout the military. His new book, At War with Ourselves: My Tour of Duty in the Trump White House, was released in hardcover in August of last year. He is also the author of the History We Don't Know Substack. Here, McMaster discusses his journey from military service to becoming the National Security Advisor under Donald Trump. McMaster shares insights on counterinsurgency warfare, the complexities of U.S.-Russia relations, and the current state of American democracy. He emphasizes the importance of national service and the need for a united American identity, while also addressing the challenges posed by groups like Hamas in the Middle East. The discussion concludes with reflections on the future of U.S. foreign policy and the role of the military in society.

With the return of Night Owls, John Ellis and Joe Klein get back into the swing of things with a sprawling discussion of a number of topics; from the consequences of Israel's war with Hamas, to Russia entering Poland's airspace, to Jeffrey Epstein's money laundering, to the "Clankers" resistance rising up against AI, to public support for a third political party, to declining support for capitalism amongst Democrats and Independents. At the close: Joe's sad assessment of The New York Mets.  

A conversation with Brown University’s Marc Dunkelman who has written an important book: Why Nothing Works: Who Killed Progress—and how to Bring it Back.” Dunkelman has written an alternative history of the Democratic Party, a 150 year struggle between top-down and bottom-up progressivism that has led to stagnation. 

We interviewed Daniela Rus, Director of the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (CSAIL) at MIT. She talks about the marriage of robotics and AI; what she calls "physical intelligence." It's a fascinating hour.

The last part of our interview with the brilliant Wolgang Munchau

The 2nd in our series where we interview Wolfgang Munchau

Larry Summers on Team Trump's economic policies, the attack on academia and the future of artificial intelligence.

Capitulation Week  A major liberal law firm capitulates to Trump pressure. A major Ivy League University capitulates to Trump pressure. Zelensky capitulates to Trump pressure. In Israel, Bibi Netanyahu tries to replicate Trump pressure…and the Dems best response is yesterday’s Bernie singing yesterday’s song. John and Joe revisit last week. 

A conversation with Martin Wolf, chief economics commentator at the Financial Times, London.  We discuss his recent book -- The Crisis of Democratic Capitalism -- and recent events.   

Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee Senator Tom Cotton (R-AR) talks about his new book -- "Seven Things You Can't Say About China" -- and says most of them. 

A world in disarray

Al From, the founder of the Democratic Leadership Council, talks about how to rebuild the Democratic Party—and how he did it last time.

Inauguration Week in Review! Joe and John on the ascendant Trump, the triumph of the Tech Bros, Dems in disarray, the Lars Anderson Bridge and the whereabouts of Philip K. Howard. 

Nobody knows the New York Post like Susan Mulcahy. She wrote the book. She talked about it with us.   

Episode Four: A dream assignment: David moves to Shanghai and begins covering China. He goes from "Sock City" to Apple, to the extraordinary changes in China's economy, politics and culture. The final episode covers everything from Wuhan to Taiwan, fentanyl to semiconductors, quantum computing to cyberhacking, to Xi's political standing and how much (and how many of) China's most successful people dislike and distrust Xi. 

Episode Three: The not-a-partnership partnership of one of the world's greatest entrepreneurs and one of the world's richest men is a case study in modern China. David describes the "partnership" that became the subject of an extraordinary report co-produced by The New York Times and David's news magazine, The Wire China.

Episode Two: We begin our conversation with David about China and whether the "Thucydides Trap" can be avoided.

Episode One: David Barboza, former Shanghai Bureau Chief for The New York Times, is building a new kind of media company. Call it Bloomberg for China. 

In the final episode of our Cortico trilogy, we talked with the company's founder and CEO, Deb Roy, about the future of "building civic muscle" and his roadmap for a national Cortico network. 

Part two of our conversations with the senior management of Cortico, the platform for "deeper conversations". Featuring Deb Roy and Alex Kelly Berman.

Cortico, in collaboration with the MIT Center for Constructive Communication (CCC), has built a platform that connects rather than divides communities, and in so doing, helps create a healthier society. We talked to its CEO and co-founder, Deb Roy, and one of its Directors, Prof. Kathy Cramer, about how it works and how it's working.   

Part Two of our interview with Jane Metclafe, a woman who saw the future clearly. Twice. 

Part One of our interview with Jane Metclafe, a woman who saw the future clearly. Twice. 

An interview with University of California San Diego Professor Barbara Walter, whose book -- "How Civil Wars Start: And How to Stop Them" -- examines the risk factors that presage civil wars. Those factors are "anocracy," factionalism, loss of power and loss of hope, all hyper-linked by social media. The U.S. has been on her watch list for civil war for some time. She's keeping it there. 

A last look at the 2024 presidential campaign. A disagreement about Jeff Bezos. A watershed moment in Germany. And more! 

Rita Singh is one of the leading voice forensics scientists in the world. In this podcast, she discusses her work at length; what our voices tell us about our physical stature, our ethnicity, our age, our health, our honesty, our intentions and our mental states. It's riveting.   

General David Petraeus (Ret.) talks about the paperback edition of his book, Conflict, written with Andrew Roberts—and brings us up to date on the state of war in Ukraine, Gaza, Lebanon and potential wars in Iran and Taiwan.

Three topics -- the VP debate, the Middle East and Hurricane Helene -- in 30 minutes. Joe's experience covering the Middle East is on full display. 

Part 2: John talked with Daron Shaw, one of the nation’s best pollsters who most people have never heard of. They talked about polling, politics and the presidential election. 

John talked with Daron Shaw, one of the nation’s best pollsters who most people have never heard of. They talked about polling, politics and the presidential election.     

John and Joe discuss yesterday's presidental debate 

John and Joe welcome Paul Vallas to the show! Paul Vallas is best known for his innovative work in public education — as superintendent of schools in Chicago and in the all-charter school system in New Orleans — and (most recently) his impressive campaign for Mayor of Chicago (he got 48% of the vote, running against the mighty machine of the Chicago Teachers Union). Joe Klein, who has been campaigning in print against teachers unions for the better part of four decades, conducted the lion's share of the interview.

Joe and John interview Zongyuan Zoe Liu, Maurice R. Greenberg senior fellow for China studies at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), about her recent article in Foreign Affairs, "China's Real Economic Crisis." 

Joe and John assess the Democratic National Convention, the collapse of RFK Jr.'s presidential campaign, and the rising political influence of the crypto-currency "industry." 

Joe and John discuss volatility in the markets and the Middle East...and Kamala Harris's running mate: "Coach" Walz.

Joe and John talk with Ann Selzer, the great Iowa pollster. It's a smart, interesting conversation about the 2024 presidential campaign, because she knows what she's talking about.   

Is Trump the the one to beat as the polling suggests? What does VP Kamala Hariss's ascent to the to the presidential nominee mean for her chances? Joe and John discuss

The last days of the Biden campaign? Joe and John go back and forth.

Rebecca Patterson, the former chief investment strategist at Bridgewater Associates, gave us a guided tour of the global economy. She's very smart and very articulate; the perfect podcast guest. 

Why is government stuck in the muck? Philip K. Howard tells Night Owls how to make schools, infrastructure projects and environmental regulations work better.

John and Joe discuss the concern of Joe Biden's age. Plus, they talk about Biden's investigation of monopolistic tech companies; new demographic data that suggests too many boys are sitting at their parents' houses; and the results of the Mexican election.