Payments Pros – The Payments Law Podcast podcast artwork

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Payments Pros – The Payments Law Podcast

Payment processors, money transmitters, financial institutions, lenders, and other financial technology businesses face increasing scrutiny from regulators, as well as heightened consumer expectations. Troutman Pepper Locke's Payments Pros podcast features insights from our attorneys and business leaders, regulatory experts, and stakeholders on the most challenging legal and regulatory concerns confronted by companies and others in the payments industry. From the BSA to EFTs, fintech to regtech, licensure to lending, Nacha to the CFPB, and payment processing to debt collecting, we have you covered.

  1. 71

    Regulating Prediction Markets: Federal Oversight, State Authority, and the Road Ahead

    In this crossover episode of Payments Pros and Regulatory Oversight, Stephen Piepgrass and Keith Barnett provide an update on the fast-developing prediction markets landscape. They discuss how federal and state regulators are responding to the growth of event contracts and the legal questions surrounding this emerging market. The conversation highlights the CFTC's continued focus on oversight, market integrity, and the need for platforms to maintain strong controls to detect and prevent manipulation or other improper trading activity. Stephen and Keith also address the evolving relationship between federal and state regulatory authority, including questions about how prediction markets should be classified and supervised. With litigation in multiple jurisdictions and potential rulemaking on the table, platforms, market participants, investors, and businesses with a stake in this space should keep an eye on how the regulatory framework develops. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  2. 70

    The Debanking Debate: Regulators, Risk, and Reality for Payments

    In this special crossover episode of Payments Pros and The Consumer Finance podcasts, Carlin McCrory, Keith Barnett, and Chris Willis explore the federal government's increasing attention to “debanking” and what it means for payment processors, money transmitters, banks, and other financial services providers. They discuss recent federal initiatives and agency activity that have heightened scrutiny of decisions to onboard, maintain, or terminate customers and merchants, particularly where those decisions may be perceived as based on political or religious viewpoints. The conversation highlights emerging regulatory theories about when debanking could be treated as an unfair practice, and how those theories align with existing statutory and case law frameworks. The group also examines the interaction between legitimate risk management under the BSA and reputational risk. They close with practical takeaways for the industry, including the importance of revisiting risk and onboarding practices, aligning those practices with evolving regulatory expectations, and maintaining clear documentation to support decisions about customer and merchant relationships in a changing oversight environment. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  3. 69

    Point-of-Sale Finance Series: Evolving Collection Rules Impacting Creditors

    In this joint episode of Payments Pros and The Consumer Finance Podcast, guest host Taylor Gess is joined by Stefanie Jackman to discuss amended debt collection regulations and restrictions for creditors, including tight communication limits and enhanced validation requirements. The conversation dives into the rise of coerced debt statutes, shortcomings of traditional identity theft frameworks, and how creditors should adjust training, intake, and escalation protocols to avoid reputational and legal risk. The discussion also explores state medical debt reporting bans, the preemption challenges, and cautious furnishing in the FCRA landscape. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  4. 68

    Point-of-Sale Finance Series: Fair Lending Risks at the Checkout Counter

    In this special joint episode of Payments Pros and The Consumer Finance Podcast, guest host Taylor Gess joins Chris Willis and Lori Sommerfield to unpack fair lending risks in point-of-sale finance. They explain how traditional fair lending concepts under the Equal Credit Opportunity Act and Fair Housing Act play out when merchants interact directly with consumers, highlighting risks around discouraging credit applications, discretionary offers, differential assistance, and steering between prime and subprime products. The conversation explores practical risk mitigation tools, such as standardized sales scripts and consumer disclosures, merchant training, and attorney-directed mystery shopping, along with lessons drawn from unfair or deceptive acts or practices enforcement in point-of-sale settings. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  5. 67

    Before You Front the Funds: Benefits and Pitfalls of Earned Wage Access Tools

    In this episode of Payments Pros, host Carlin McCrory teams up with Hiring to Firing hosts Tracey Diamond and Emily Schifter to explore the emerging world of earned wage access (EWA), or on-demand pay, through the lens of the reality TV show Shark Tank. They examine the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's evolving approach, rapidly developing (and sometimes conflicting) state laws, and the wage-and-hour and payroll challenges that can arise when employees access their pay early. The discussion also covers how EWA can serve as a powerful recruitment and retention tool, the risk that a well-intentioned benefit can be viewed as a "loan in sheep's clothing," and practical steps HR and in-house counsel can take when vetting vendors or considering in-house EWA programs. Tune in to decide whether EWA is the kind of pitch your HR "sharks" should back — or one that should prompt, "And for that reason, I'm out." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  6. 66

    Beyond the Buzzwords: Building Bank-Fintech Partnerships That Survive Exams

    In this episode of Payments Pros, host Carlin McCrory is joined by Marissa Tartarini of Elliott Davis to explore how banks can build sustainable, scalable fintech partnerships in a shifting regulatory environment. They begin with the foundational risk questions banks should ask before choosing a partner — speed to market, in-house expertise and gaps, strategic fit, and risk appetite — then turn to practical legal and compliance considerations, including staffing, board oversight, and the need for tailored partnership agreements. Marissa and Carlin discuss the challenges of managing multiple fintech programs at once, maintaining up-to-date policies and marketing, and ensuring that growth does not outpace governance and BSA/AML controls. They highlight what separates successful programs from those that fail, lessons from terminated partnerships, and how to prepare for increasingly technical regulatory exams. Carlin and Marissa close the episode with a look at how regulators' and banks' views of fintech partnerships have evolved and what that means for the future of bank-fintech collaboration. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  7. 65

    Trading, Gambling, or Something Else? Prediction Markets and the Payments Puzzle

    In this crossover episode, Payments Pros host Keith Barnett teams up with Regulatory Oversight host Stephen Piepgrass to unpack how prediction markets, gaming, and payments intersect in a rapidly evolving and legally uncertain landscape. Drawing on Keith's extensive regulatory experience, they explain what prediction markets are, why these contracts are treated as swaps rather than securities, and how that distinction affects insider trading issues. Keith and Stephen then address the growing tension between federal regulators and state attorneys general over whether these products are trading or unlicensed sports betting, the CFTC chair's recent criticism of "regulation by enforcement," and the NCAA's push to pause college sports contracts. They close by examining what this means for banks, payment processors, and other service providers navigating know-your-customer and "lawful transaction" obligations while the law remains in flux. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  8. 64

    Payments Year in Review 2025: Federal and State Developments – Part 2

    In the second installment of the two-part Payments Year in Review series, hosts Keith Barnett, Carlin McCrory, and Jason Cover focus on the state-level developments that shaped the 2025 payments landscape and will influence 2026.They begin with buy now, pay later (BNPL) and earned wage access (EWA), explaining how the CFPB's rollback of its BNPL rule has prompted states like New York to regulate "BNPL" products, while states such as Connecticut move to treat common EWA fees as finance charges, in contrast to more permissive regimes like Louisiana.The discussion then turns to the patchwork of state laws on convenience fees and surcharges, including Oklahoma's new statute and "junk fee" litigation brought in certain states. The episode closes with updates on merchant cash advances, Colorado's DIDMCA opt-out, and growing state adoption of the Money Transmission Modernization Act and related exemptions. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  9. 63

    Payments Year in Review 2025: Federal and State Developments – Part 1

    In the first installment of a two-part Payments Year in Review series, hosts Keith Barnett, Carlin McCrory, and Jason Cover highlight the key federal developments that shaped the payments industry in 2025 and preview what's ahead for 2026.They cover the evolving status of the CFPB's payday lending rule, shifting BSA/AML enforcement from federal agencies to increasingly active state regulators, and the CFPB's changing approach to earned wage access, including new guidance for certain employer-integrated models. The episode also examines the fallout from the voided FTC "Click to Cancel" rule and the agency's continued reliance on ROSCA and Section 5 to police auto-renewal and cancellation practices.The discussion wraps up with buy now, pay later (BNPL), focusing on the CFPB's rescinded advisory and New York's move to regulate BNPL more like traditional credit, setting the stage for Part 2's focus on state-level trends. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  10. 62

    Point-of-Sale Finance Series: Health Care Financing Compliance, Regulatory, and Privacy Pitfalls

    In this crossover episode of Payments Pros and The Consumer Finance Podcast, guest host Taylor Gess dives into the rapidly evolving world of point-of-sale financing for medical and dental procedures with Troutman Pepper Locke Partners Jason Cover, Brent Hoard, and Erin Whaley. They unpack how HIPAA, business associate relationships, and information-sharing structures can impact financing programs in clinical settings. They explore state-level trends in California, Illinois, and New York, including new restrictions on provider involvement in financing, promotional offers, and payments. The discussion also highlights emerging risks around website tracking technologies, payment portals, and wiretapping-style lawsuits targeting digital health and payment ecosystems. Listeners will come away with a practical framework for structuring medical and dental financing arrangements, managing disputes, and anticipating the next wave of state-level regulation and enforcement. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  11. 61

    Point-of-Sale Finance Series: Solar Finance Under the Microscope

    In this crossover episode of Payments Pros and The Consumer Finance Podcast, Jason Cover, Mark Furletti, and Andrew Thurmond return to unpack the complex landscape of residential solar finance. They highlight practical complications lenders face with home improvement projects involving power purchase agreements, leases, tax credit, retail installment contracts, renewable energy certificates, and more. The discussion also provides insight on trends in the solar industry, bankruptcy, the rise of solar disclosure requirements and state-level oversight, and compliance measures to mitigate risk. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  12. 60

    Point-of-Sale Finance Series: Understanding the Development and Regulation of Buy Now, Pay Later Products

    In this crossover episode of Payments Pros and The Consumer Finance Podcast, guest host Taylor Gess is joined by Jason Cover and Jeremy Sairsingh to discuss buy now, pay later (BNPL) products as they continue to dive into the Point-of-Sale Finance Series. They highlight the complexities of BNPL offerings and the transformation of these payment models with varying fee structures and repayment terms. As these BNPL products mature, they challenge traditional definitions and regulatory frameworks, prompting a closer look at how consumers and providers are adapting to this financing option and its effects. With continuous industry innovations, regulators are working to keep pace, raising questions about the future direction of BNPL regulation and its impact. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  13. 59

    Point-of-Sale Finance Series: Banking on Lending Models

    In this crossover episode of Payments Pros and The Consumer Finance Podcast, Chris Willis, Jason Cover, and Taylor Gess discuss licensed lending and bank model lending programs. This conversation dives into the benefits, challenges, and regulatory landscapes that shape these popular lending models for financial institutions and fintechs. Consumer finance providers will gain valuable insights on structuring successful lending partnerships in today's complex environment. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  14. 58

    The Future of Bank-Fintech Collaborations in Digital Finance

    In this special crossover episode of The Crypto Exchange and Payments Pros podcasts, hosts Ethan Ostroff and Carlin McCrory, along with James Stevens, co-leader of Troutman Pepper Locke's Financial Services Industry Group, explore the dynamic landscape of partnerships between financial institutions and digital asset firms. They discuss the increasing demand for payment enablement, highlighting how these institutions facilitate fiat currency transactions through strategic collaborations with digital asset providers.The episode also examines the GENIUS Act's impact, which mandates stablecoin reserves to be backed by liquid assets, creating new opportunities for financial institutions to offer deposit services. Additionally, the discussion covers the role of credit unions and key regulatory considerations, such as the Bank Secrecy Act and anti-money laundering obligations, emphasizing the critical importance of due diligence and oversight in bank-fintech partnerships. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  15. 57

    The 1033 Shake-Up: CFPB's New Rulemaking Adventure

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Carlin McCrory is joined by colleague Kim Phan to discuss the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) recent developments regarding Section 1033 of the Consumer Financial Protection Act (CFPA). This summer, the CFPB initiated a new rulemaking process, inviting industry comments on its final rule concerning personal financial data rights. With a deadline of October 21 for public comments, industry participants are encouraged to weigh in on access to consumer financial information.Kim and Carlin discuss the strategic implications of the CFPB's reconsideration of the 1033 open banking rule, highlighting the agency's focus on consumer representatives, privacy, security, fee structures, and compliance timelines. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  16. 56

    Wage Wonders: Unraveling Payroll Mysteries With Nacha and State Insights

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Keith Barnett discusses the complex interplay between payroll processing, Nacha rules, and state labor laws. Building on previous discussions about earned wage access (EWA), Keith examines common issues such as duplicate payments and overpayments, highlighting the importance of adhering to Nacha rules and state-specific labor laws. He explains how erroneous entries are defined under Nacha and the conditions under which reversals can be initiated.The episode also explores the challenges posed by state labor laws, particularly in California and New York, emphasizing the need for employers and processors to navigate both federal and state regulations carefully. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  17. 55

    Paddle's Payment Predicament: Unpacking FTC's Compliance Crackdown

    In this episode of Payments Pros, hosts Keith Barnett and Carlin McCrory examine the recent $5 million settlement between the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Paddle.com, a UK-based payment processor. The discussion centers on the FTC's allegations against Paddle for violating the Restore Online Shoppers' Confidence Act (ROSCA) and the Telemarketing Sales Rule (TSR). Paddle's practice of aggregating merchant transactions under its own name led to significant compliance issues with card network rules and masked chargeback levels and disputes. The settlement imposes strict prohibitions on Paddle, including barring it from processing payments for tech support merchants and requiring enhanced client screening and monitoring.Keith and Carlin highlight the critical need for businesses to comply with card network rules. The FTC held Paddle responsible as the merchant of record for the noncompliant negative option billing practices of the merchants whose transactions it processed. The hosts stress the FTC's ongoing vigilance in the payments industry and urge companies to ensure adherence to all regulatory standards. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  18. 54

    Enhancing Card Partnerships and Compliance: A Conversation With Matthew Goldman

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Carlin McCrory is joined by Matthew Goldman, founder of Totavi, LLC and publisher of CardsFTW, to discuss operational compliance for card issuers. Their conversation highlights essential practices for maintaining compliance, such as tracking transactions and monitoring systems effectively.Carlin and Matthew examine the complexities of card programs, identifying common pitfalls and exploring strategies to enhance partnerships with banks and customers. They emphasize how compliance can serve as a revenue enabler rather than merely a cost center. Through practical approaches, such as refining marketing collateral approval processes, they discuss ways to streamline operations and support growth effectively.Matthew shares insights from his extensive fintech experience, offering perspectives into industry expectations and the complexities of card products. Carlin and Matthew's discussion underscores the importance of having the right team and partners to navigate compliance challenges successfully. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  19. 53

    Under the Radar: DOJ's Data Security Rules and Their Impact on Payments Companies

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Carlin McCrory is joined by Pete Jeydel, a partner in the firm's White Collar Litigation + Investigations Practice Group, to discuss the new Department of Justice (DOJ) Data Security Program (DSP), which took effect earlier this year. The DSP, administered by the DOJ's National Security Division, aims to enhance protection for sensitive personal data linked to U.S. persons for activity involving countries of concern like China and Russia. Pete explains that this regulatory framework is distinct from traditional data privacy laws, emphasizing national security over individual consent and contractual protections. The program emerged rapidly following an executive order from President Biden in February 2024, reflecting long-standing concerns about foreign data access.As the episode concludes, Pete emphasizes the critical need for companies to understand the scope and impact of the DOJ's new data security rules. These rules include broad exemptions, including for financial services, but they are complex and require careful interpretation. Noncompliance could result in substantial civil and criminal penalties, making it essential for companies to establish a robust compliance strategy. The DOJ rules necessitate a focus on high-risk areas and a risk-based approach to compliance. Companies are encouraged to proactively assess their data security practices to align with DOJ objectives and effectively mitigate potential risks. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  20. 52

    Regulatory Rollback: Legal Challenges and Opportunities in Earned-Wage Access

    In this special joint episode of The Consumer Finance Podcast and Payments Pros, Chris Willis, co-leader of Troutman Pepper Locke's Consumer Financial Services Regulatory Practice, is joined by Keith Barnett and Jason Cover from the Payments Pros podcast, along with Troutman Pepper Locke Consumer Financial Services Partner Mark Furletti. They discuss the future of earned-wage access (EWA) products following the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) rescission of previous guidance. The conversation explores the history and evolution of EWA products, initially designed as employer-based solutions to provide employees early access to earned wages without extending credit.The group highlights regulatory challenges, including the CFPB's changing stance and the impact of state laws on EWA offerings. They examine how these products are structured to avoid being classified as credit, focusing on optional fees and the absence of repayment obligations. The discussion also addresses the legal landscape, noting potential state-level regulatory landmines and private litigation. The episode emphasizes the importance for fintechs and payroll processors to navigate these complexities carefully, especially in states with stringent regulations like California and New York. The podcast concludes with insights into the future of EWA, stressing the need for compliance with evolving state and federal laws. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  21. 51

    From Banks to FinTech: The Evolution of Small Business Lending

    In this special crossover edition of the Payments Pros and Consumer Finance podcasts, Carlin McCrory and Jason Cover are joined by their colleague Caleb Rosenberg to explore the evolving landscape of small business financing. They highlight the significant growth in diverse financing products and providers, which have expanded funding access for small businesses, particularly startups.The discussion outlines the evolution from traditional bank lending to the rise of online and fintech solutions, which have filled gaps left by conventional lenders. The group also examines the complexities of the regulatory environment, focusing on the increased scrutiny from state legislatures and the introduction of consumer-like disclosure requirements for small business lending.Additionally, they consider the impact of recent legislative changes in states like Texas and Louisiana, which could transform financing practices. The conversation includes best practices for structuring and servicing financial products while also speculating on future regulatory trends and the potential influence of federal oversight by the FTC. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  22. 50

    Navigating Elder Fraud: Challenges and Legal Trends in Payment Systems

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Carlin McCrory is joined by Mary Zinsner, a partner in the Consumer Financial Services Practice Group, to explore the increasing litigation trends in the payments industry, with a focus on elder fraud and financial exploitation.Mary provides valuable insights into how these fraud cases frequently involve diverse payment systems, such as wire transfers and electronic fund transfers. The conversation sheds light on the challenges faced by financial institutions, including the delicate balance between compliance and customer satisfaction, as well as navigating claims related to negligence and breach of contract.Additionally, Mary and Carlin discuss the shifting legal landscape, highlighting state legislative efforts aimed at safeguarding the elderly. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  23. 49

    Understanding MALPB Charters: A Collaborative Approach to Banking Innovation

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Carlin McCrory welcomes Melissa Sneed from the Georgia Department of Banking and Finance and James Stevens, co-leader of Troutman Pepper Locke's Financial Services Industry Group, to explore Merchant Acquirer Limited Purpose Bank (MALPB) charters.Melissa, the deputy commissioner for supervision, outlines the application process for obtaining a MALPB charter, emphasizing the importance of a comprehensive review of financials, management, IT systems, and compliance. She explains the timeline for the process, noting a six-month review period followed by a 90-day decision window after accepting the application, with conditional approvals extending through a three-year de novo period. James also provides insights from the applicant's perspective, stressing the need for thorough preparation and collaboration with legal and consulting experts before engaging with the Department of Banking and Finance.The episode also covers ongoing examination and oversight, highlighting the role of card networks and the unique regulatory requirements involved. The group's discussion emphasizes the collaborative effort required among applicants, card networks, and regulatory bodies to ensure successful charter implementation. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  24. 48

    Welcoming a New Payment Pro: Jason Cover Joins the Payments Pros Podcast

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Carlin McCrory introduces Jason Cover as a new co-host. Jason, a partner in Troutman Pepper Locke's Consumer Financial Services practice, brings extensive knowledge in consumer lending and payments laws. He advises clients on electronic payments, online small business lending, electronic consents, contracts, disclosures, and recurring payment methods. As a fintech consumer credit attorney, Jason focuses on regulatory compliance and product design, covering both federal and state laws. His insights into payment authorizations, Regulation E, and Nacha rules are invaluable. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  25. 47

    Payments Medley: Navigating Trends in Payments With Jason Mikula

    In this episode of Payments Pros, host Carlin McCrory welcomes Jason Mikula, a seasoned fintech and banking advisor, to explore various topics within the payments industry. They begin by examining the implications of U.S. sanctions on global payment systems and the potential shift away from U.S.-controlled payment rails. The discussion then moves to the viability of pay-by-bank systems in the U.S., focusing on the challenges posed by entrenched card payment behaviors.Carlin and Jason further discuss the sustainability of nonbank fintech businesses that rely solely on interchange fees, highlighting the necessity for diversified revenue streams. The episode also covers the adoption of real-time payments like FedNow, noting the limited consumer use cases compared to commercial applications. Additionally, they explore the innovation of network flexible payment credentials and the complexities surrounding consumer understanding of new payments products. The conversation concludes with insights into new types of financial charters and the potential role of stablecoins in international payments. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  26. 46

    Navigating the Future of Payment Stablecoins: Legislative Updates and Market Implications

    In this special crossover edition of the Payments Pros and Crypto Exchange podcast, Carlin McCrory is joined by colleagues Alex Barrage and Ethan Ostroff to discuss recent legislative updates surrounding payment stablecoins. The group begins by exploring the advantages of payment stablecoins, such as their 24/7 availability and programmability, and the merits of having robust competition for stablecoin issuance and use cases.They also highlight the introduction of the Anti-CBDC Surveillance State Act and the potential for states like Wyoming to issue their own stablecoins. The discussion covers the Securities and Exchange Commission's recent statement on USD-backed stablecoins, clarifying that they do not require Securities Act registration under certain conditions. The group emphasizes the importance of a robust legislative framework to ensure stablecoin proliferation and trust, considering factors like Know Your Customer, Anti-Money Laundering, and global regulatory alignment. The episode concludes with a discussion on the future of stablecoins and the possibility of them being widely used for retail payments, contingent on effective regulation and industry trust. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  27. 45

    Strengthening Compliance: Lessons From the OCC's Consent Order With Patriot Bank

    In this episode of Payments Pros, host Carlin McCrory discusses a recent consent order between Patriot Bank and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) following a $27 million loss. The order addresses unsafe practices and legal violations, focusing on prepaid card program oversight. Key areas of concern include the need for a strategic plan, evaluation of internal operations, and staffing requirements. The bank must also enhance its Customer Identification Program (CIP) and ensure adequate monitoring of third-party program managers.Carlin discusses key takeaways from the OCC's consent order with Patriot Bank, emphasizing that other banks should maintain high compliance standards, particularly in BSA/AML programs, and tailor policies and procedures to specific business lines. She underscores the importance of thorough monitoring of fintech partners. Additionally, banks should implement robust suspicious activity reporting, conduct detailed BSA/AML risk assessments, and ensure effective internal audit coverage. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  28. 44

    Virtual Currency Regulations: Key Insights for the Payments Industry

    In the latest episode of Payments Pros, hosts Keith Barnett and Carlin McCrory discuss the latest FinCEN and OFAC guidance on virtual currency transactions, specifically tailored for companies in the payments industry. They explore when businesses need to register as money services businesses (MSBs) under federal law and discuss the roles of users, exchangers, and administrators of virtual currencies. Carlin provides a detailed look at the regulatory requirements for both centralized and decentralized virtual currencies.Keith then shifts the focus to OFAC's expectations for screening virtual currency transactions, emphasizing the importance of compliance with sanctions regulations. He explains the need for a risk-based OFAC sanctions compliance program to avoid prohibited transactions.This episode provides valuable insights for payments companies navigating the complex virtual currency landscape. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  29. 43

    CFPB's Inquiry Into Payments Privacy

    In the latest episode of Payments Pros, host Carlin McCrory welcomes Kim Phan to discuss the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) recent inquiries into enhancing privacy protections.On January 10, the CFPB sought public input on improving privacy safeguards and curbing harmful surveillance and digital payments, particularly those offered by large technology platforms. The CFPB is particularly interested in comments on existing financial privacy laws and issues related to intrusive data collection and personalized pricing.Carlin and Kim highlight the CFPB's ongoing efforts to regulate big tech firms, which they view as operating outside traditional banking controls. The discussion also covers the CFPB's approach to the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA) and its effectiveness in addressing modern data surveillance.They wrap up their conversation by examining potential shifts in the CFPB's regulatory focus under new administration leadership.NOTE: At the time of recording, this podcast may not have captured the most recent events relating to the change in CFPB leadership and resulting instructions to CFPB staff regarding CFPB rulemakings. Stay tuned for future podcast episodes addressing these important developments. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  30. 42

    2024 Payments Year in Review: CFPB and FTC Regulatory Trends – Part Four

    In the final installment of the four-part "Payments Year in Review" series, hosts Keith Barnett and Carlin McCrory discuss significant enforcement actions and regulatory trends. The discussion begins with the increased scrutiny from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) on bank and nonbank partnerships, emphasizing sound risk management and compliance. Key themes include third-party risk management, board governance, Bank Secrecy Act/Anti-Money Laundering compliance, and liquidity risk. The episode also addresses the proposed FDIC deposit insurance record-keeping rule.The discussion then shifts to Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) enforcement actions, highlighting more than 50 actions in 2024, many involving payment elements. The CFPB primarily targeted Regulation E violations and overdraft fees, while the FTC focused on telemarketing sales rules, chargeback rates, and returns. It is anticipated that regulatory enforcement will be lighter in 2025 due to the administration change. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  31. 41

    2024 Payments Year in Review: CFPB and FTC Regulatory Trends – Part Three

    In the third installment of the four-part "Payments Year in Review" series, hosts Keith Barnett, Josh McBeain, and Carlin McCrory discuss the Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) actions in 2024 and their expectations for 2025.They begin by examining amendments to the Telemarketing Sales Rule, which now includes inbound calls for technical support services. The discussion then shifts to the FTC's annual report to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), highlighting enforcement activities in areas such as automobile financing, electronic fund transfers, and deceptive fees. Finally, the co-hosts review the finalized amendments to the Negative Option Rule, which impose stricter requirements on recurring subscription services across various industries. This rule mandates clear disclosures, easy cancellation processes, and prohibits misrepresentations. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  32. 40

    2024 Payments Year in Review: CFPB and FTC Regulatory Trends – Part Two

    In the second installment of a four-part Payments Year in Review series, Keith Barnett and Josh McBeain discuss significant developments in the payments landscape from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) in 2024 and expectations for 2025.Our co-hosts continue with a discussion of the CFPB's proposed interpretive rule on earned wage access products, highlighting its broad definitions and aggressive stance on fees, which conflict with many state laws.They also discuss significant CFPB rulemakings, including the final credit card late fee rule and the overdraft rule, both of which face legal challenges. Keith and Josh close out this episode by discussing the interpretive rule on buy now, pay later transactions and the CFPB's circular on credit card rewards programs. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  33. 39

    2024 Payments Year in Review: CFPB and FTC Regulatory Trends – Part One

    In the first installment of a four-part Payments Year in Review series, Keith Barnett and Carlin McCrory discuss significant developments in the payments landscape from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) in 2024 and expectations for 2025.Our co-hosts begin with an overview of the CFPB's new rule for supervising large tech companies offering digital wallets and payment apps. Despite its finalization, and since our episode has been recorded, the rule has been challenged in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.The discussion then shifts to the CFPB's final rule on personal financial data rights, aimed at enhancing consumer control over financial data. This rule includes provisions for data access, revocation, and standardized formats but may lead to increased costs for financial institutions.The episode concludes by highlighting changes to the remittance transfer rule, emphasizing the importance of accurate marketing regarding transfer speed and fees. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  34. 38

    Navigating Consumer Protection: The CFPB's Expanding Reach

    In the latest episode of Payments Pros, host Carlin McCrory welcomes Jesse Silverman to discuss the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) recent order asserting supervisory authority over Google Payment Corp.The CFPB's claim is based on Dodd-Frank Section 1024, which includes a category for entities posing a risk to consumers. The CFPB cited 267 consumer complaints about Google Pay products as the basis for its action. Jesse highlights the ambiguity in terms like "risk" and "reasonable cause" within the Dodd-Frank Act and questions the material impact of CFPB supervision. Google Payment Corp. has sued the CFPB, arguing that the products in question are no longer offered and that the complaints are not substantial enough to warrant supervision. The episode delves into the broader implications of this precedent and the potential outcomes of Google Payment Corp.'s lawsuit. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  35. 37

    Understanding the DFPI's Proposed Rules: A Deep Dive Into California's Digital Financial Assets Law

    In this special crossover episode of the Payments Pros and Crypto Exchange podcasts, our hosts are joined by colleague Alexandra Steinberg Barrage to discuss California's Department of Financial Protection and Innovation’s proposed rulemaking under the Digital Financial Assets Law (DFAL).The group discusses various aspects of the new cryptocurrency licensing regime, including licensure exemptions, required disclosures, conditional licensing, and digital asset kiosk requirements. They provide an overview of the DFAL, highlighting its broad licensing and enforcement framework, as well as recent legislative updates extending licensure deadlines. Comparisons are drawn between DFAL and New York's BitLicense, emphasizing the importance of harmonization across state regulations. The conversation also covers the exclusion of digital asset activities from money transmission licensure and the specific requirements for digital asset kiosks. Additionally, the episode touches on the potential impact of federal regulation and the ongoing tension between state and federal oversight in the cryptocurrency space. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  36. 36

    Navigating CFPB Enforcement: Key Takeaways From the Global Tel Link Consent Order

    In the latest episode of Payments Pros, hosts Keith Barnett and Carlin McCrory discuss a significant Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) enforcement action against Global Tel Link Corporation (GTL), issued on November 14. This action resulted in a consent order addressing chargebacks, alternate payment channel fees, and handling of inactive accounts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  37. 35

    AI in Payments: Practical Applications and Legal Insights

    In the latest episode of Payments Pros, host Carlin McCrory is joined by Jason Cover to discuss the role of artificial intelligence (AI) in the payments industry. They define AI and generative AI, highlighting its capabilities in generating text, images, and other data. Jason outlines four key considerations for using AI: ensuring data quality, adhering to applicable laws, understanding AI operations, and maintaining human oversight.Carlin and Jason explore practical applications of AI in the payments sector, such as customer service chatbots and automated dispute resolution. Jason emphasizes the importance of supervised AI use to avoid potential liabilities, citing recent Consumer Financial Protection Bureau guidance.The episode also covers the evolving regulatory landscape, including state-level initiatives like Colorado's statute on high-risk AI. Jason underscores the complexity of navigating these regulations and the need for companies to stay informed about state law changes. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  38. 34

    Navigating Regulatory Waters: Recent Enforcement Actions in BaaS

    In the latest episode of Payments Pros, hosts Carlin McCrory and Keith Barnett are joined by James Stevens to discuss recent enforcement actions in the banking as a service (BaaS) space. They delve into regulatory trends, consent orders, and future anticipated regulatory scrutiny.James explains the concept of BaaS, highlighting the regulatory scrutiny it faces due to its rapid growth and complexity. The conversation covers common themes in enforcement actions, such as compliance with the Bank Secrecy Act and consumer protection laws. The group discusses the importance of robust due diligence, contracts, and ongoing monitoring in BaaS partnerships. The episode concludes with insights on scaling risk and compliance oversight functions and the potential impact of regulatory changes on BaaS programs. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  39. 33

    The Evolving Landscape of B2B Payments: Regulatory Trends and Financial Practices Explained

    In this episode of Payments Pros, host Josh McBeain is joined by Caleb Rosenberg, a member of the firm's Consumer Financial Services practice group, to discuss the complexities of business-to-business payments and the increasing state law requirements associated with them.Josh and Caleb explore the differences between merchant cash advances (MCAs) and factoring, noting that factoring involves the sale of already owed receivables, while MCAs involve the sale of future receivables. They also address the recent surge in state-level regulations, which has led states like California and New York to enact disclosure laws. Additionally, they discuss the challenges of making accurate disclosures, such as APR, in these variable transactions and the complexities arising from differing state regulations. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  40. 32

    Welcome Trevor Salter: A Deep Dive Into Financial Services Transactions

    In this special joint episode of Payments Pros and The Consumer Finance Podcast, Chris Willis and Carlin McCrory introduce Trevor Salter, a seasoned financial services transactional attorney who recently joined Troutman Pepper. Trevor shares his unique career journey from aspiring environmental attorney to becoming a key player in consumer financial services. The discussion delves into Trevor's experience in strategic partnerships, card partnerships, and consumer data integrations, highlighting the synergies with the firm's comprehensive financial services practice. Tune in to learn more about Trevor's background, his decision to join the firm, and the exciting future ahead for the firm's financial services team. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  41. 31

    2024 State Legislative Review: Key Payment Laws and Their Impacts

    In this episode of Payments Pros, host Keith Barnett reviews state legislative actions in 2024 related to payments, focusing on the Money Transmission Modernization Act (MTMA), earned wage access (EWA), and peer-to-peer payments.Keith discusses the MTMA, a model law aimed at standardizing state money transmitter laws. Seventeen states considered the MTMA in 2024, with eight states passing it in some form. Key provisions include removing the "in the business of" language, incorporating the agent of the payee exemption, and inconsistencies on whether to include payroll processors within the definition of money transmission. The MTMA also imposes bonding requirements, though these vary by state.Keith then transitions to EWA, noting that while four states proposed EWA-related laws in 2024, none were passed. Ohio remains a state to watch.Finally, the episode addresses a proposed New Jersey law criminalizing the failure to return erroneous electronic payments, raising concerns about its broad applicability and impact on payment processors. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  42. 30

    Earned Wage Access: Exploring the CFPB's Proposed Interpretive Rule

    In this special crossover episode of Payments Pros and The Consumer Finance Podcast, Carlin McCrory, Keith Barnett, and Chris Willis are joined by Jason Cover and Mark Furletti to discuss the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) proposed interpretive rule on earned wage access (EWA) products. EWA allows employees to access wages they have earned before payday, with two main models: employer-integrated and direct-to-consumer. The conversation explores the differences between EWA and payday lending, emphasizing that EWA typically does not involve finance charges or obligations to repay.The podcast explains the CFPB's proposed interpretive rule, which replaces the 2020 guidance that was more favorable to the industry. The new rule would classify EWA products as credit under the Truth in Lending Act (TILA), requiring additional disclosures. The discussion also covers the CFPB's stance on expedited funding fees and tips, which they argue should be considered finance charges.The group discusses the CFPB's approach, noting potential challenges and the lack of justification for the proposed rule. They encourage market participants to submit comments before the August 30 deadline to address flaws in the CFPB's analysis. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  43. 29

    Understanding the CFPB's Payday Loan Rule: Implications and Compliance

    In this special crossover episode of the Payments Pros Podcast and The Consumer Finance Podcast, Josh McBeain and Chris Willis are joined by colleagues Mark Furletti and Jason Cover to delve into the CFPB's Payday Loan Rule, which is set to become effective again following a Supreme Court decision. The discussion unpacks the broad scope of the rule, extending beyond traditional payday loans to include various financial products. The episode highlights the complexities of compliance, the nuances of the rule's definitions, and the critical steps lenders must take before the March 30, 2025, compliance deadline. Don't miss this insightful conversation on navigating the revived regulatory landscape. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  44. 28

    Navigating New Compliance Challenges: The Impact of the Money Transmitter Modernization Act on Payroll Processing

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Keith Barnett is joined by Eli Polanco, founder and CEO of Nivelo, to discuss critical issues in payroll processing. They highlight the significant impact that the Money Transmitter Modernization Act (MTMA) will have on payroll processors in the states that have adopted the portion of the MTMA requiring payroll processors to obtain money transmitter licenses.Eli explains the complexities introduced by the MTMA, including the need for payroll providers to navigate through state regulations. This has led to increased operational costs and uncertainty within the industry.The discussion also covers the critical role of payroll providers and their bank partners in managing the movement of employee payroll across the country, which includes tax payments and garnishments. Eli emphasizes the importance of robust risk management practices and compliance with Nacha rules. Looking ahead, Eli predicts increased consolidation in the payroll industry and higher costs for payroll services due to regulatory pressures, which potentially stifles competition and innovation. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  45. 27

    CFPB's New Interpretive Rule: Buy Now, Pay Later as Credit Cards

    In this special crossover episode of The Consumer Finance Podcast and Payments Pros Podcast, Chris Willis and Josh McBeain interview two colleagues who delve into the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) recent interpretive rule that classifies buy now, pay later (BNPL) transactions as credit cards. Mark Furletti and Jason Cover explore the implications of this rule under Regulation Z, including the introduction of the term "digital user account" and its impact on BNPL providers. The discussion covers the regulatory requirements, potential challenges for compliance, and the broader legal context, including the possible effects of the Loper Bright case on administrative interpretations. With a July 30 compliance deadline looming, the episode provides critical insights for industry stakeholders navigating this significant regulatory shift. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  46. 26

    Regulation Through Enforcement: Insights From the BlueSnap Lawsuit

    In this episode of Payments Pros, host Keith Barnett discusses the Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) lawsuit and $10 million settlement against the payment facilitator, BlueSnap. On May 1, the FTC filed a complaint alleging that BlueSnap and its executives aided and abetted a debt relief service provider's violations of the Telemarketing Sales Rule, along with violating Section 5 of the FTC Act.Keith highlights the FTC's allegations regarding BlueSnap's onboarding and due diligence processes, noting the issues that the FTC examines when investigating companies that facilitate payments, such as email correspondence, chargeback rates, fraud monitoring alerts, consumer complaints, and the circumstances under which the FTC believes a company should stop processing payments for merchants. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  47. 25

    Third-Party Risk Management in Bank-Fintech Partnerships: Strategies and Insights

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Carlin McCrory is joined by Nathan Ottinger, president of Georgia Banking Company's Payments and Technology Banking Group. They delve into the current state of the payments marketplace, characterized by heightened regulatory scrutiny and rapid innovation. Nathan underscores the importance of well-documented risk management strategies for financial institutions and the necessity for businesses to secure proficient legal counsel, particularly in the realm of money transmission.Nathan shares how Georgia Banking Company strategically focuses on specific industry segments and payment types, consciously avoiding the allure of the latest trends in bank-fintech partnerships. He emphasizes the significance of cultivating direct client relationships, conducting thorough due diligence during the client onboarding process, and maintaining ongoing portfolio management and oversight.Discussing payment technology innovations, Nathan highlights tools that enhance risk management and streamline processes. He concludes by reiterating the high ethical and regulatory standards required when handling other people's money, stressing the need for alignment between the client, the bank, and regulatory requirements. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  48. 24

    An In-Depth Analysis of the CFPB's Proposed Overdraft Rule

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Josh McBeain and Chris Willis discuss the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) proposed rule on overdraft fees. The rule, which only applies to large financial institutions with assets over $10 billion, aims to regulate overdraft services by altering the definition of 'finance charge,' effectively subjecting these institutions to Regulation Z's disclosure and substantive provisions. Chris and Josh delve into the complexities of the proposed rule, considering its potential implications and the likelihood of litigation challenges from the industry. They also discuss the role of the Truth in Lending Act (TILA) and the concept of Chevron deference in this context. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  49. 23

    Tackling Credit Push Fraud: Understanding Nacha's Risk Management Package (Part Two)

    In the final episode of the Payments Pros special two-part series, Jordan Bennett, Nacha's senior director of network risk management, joins Keith and Carlin to discuss the new rules regarding fraud monitoring.Fraud Monitoring Phase 1 will become effective on March 20, 2026, and Phase 2 on June 19, 2026. These rules require all nonconsumer originators, ODFIs, third-party service providers, and third-party senders to establish and implement risk-based procedures to identify potential fraudulent transactions. The aim is to reduce the incidence of successful fraud attempts.The group discusses that the rules do not prescribe a specific method for monitoring, allowing each party to adapt according to their needs. However, inaction is not an option. Parties should conduct a risk assessment and adjust their policies accordingly.Jordan advises leveraging existing resources and ensuring contacts are prepared to respond to fraud incidents. He clarifies that these changes don't reallocate liability or establish new duties, but aim to foster teamwork in fraud prevention. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

  50. 22

    Tackling Credit Push Fraud: Understanding Nacha's Risk Management Package (Part One)

    In this episode of Payments Pros, Carlin and Keith welcome back Jordan Bennett, Nacha's senior director of network risk management, for a two-part series on the newly approved rules designed to combat credit push fraud. Credit push fraud has been on the rise, and Nacha released a risk management framework to increase awareness and mitigate such frauds.The new rules, approved by Nacha's members on March 18, aim to mitigate fraud incidents such as business email compromise and efforts to exploit credit push payments. Part one of this series explores the risk management package, discussing the comprehensive set of rules and multiple rule amendments effective from October of the current year.Jordan highlights that the effective dates for some rules extend into 2026, providing ample time for preparation. The rules package was carefully crafted to reduce incidents of credit push frauds and provide financial institutions with useful tools.In addition to the rules, Nacha is also focusing on education and has released risk management guidance. The guidance is designed to help financial institutions improve their risk controls.The new rules include amendments for fraud monitoring by all parties in the ACH network, new rules around fund recovery tools, standardization of certain data fields, and changes to the Written Statement of Unauthorized Debit (WSUD) process. The rules are designed to increase awareness of fraud schemes, reduce successful fraud attempts, and improve recovery after frauds have occurred.Part two of this series will focus on fraud monitoring and what ACH Network participants can start doing now to comply with the recently passed rules.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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ABOUT THIS SHOW

Payment processors, money transmitters, financial institutions, lenders, and other financial technology businesses face increasing scrutiny from regulators, as well as heightened consumer expectations. Troutman Pepper Locke's Payments Pros podcast features insights from our attorneys and business leaders, regulatory experts, and stakeholders on the most challenging legal and regulatory concerns confronted by companies and others in the payments industry. From the BSA to EFTs, fintech to regtech, licensure to lending, Nacha to the CFPB, and payment processing to debt collecting, we have you covered.

HOSTED BY

Keith J. Barnett, Carlin A. McCrory, Troutman Pepper Locke, Jason M. Cover

Produced by Troutman Pepper Locke

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Frequently Asked Questions

How many episodes does Payments Pros – The Payments Law Podcast have?

Payments Pros – The Payments Law Podcast currently has 50 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.

What is Payments Pros – The Payments Law Podcast about?

Payment processors, money transmitters, financial institutions, lenders, and other financial technology businesses face increasing scrutiny from regulators, as well as heightened consumer expectations. Troutman Pepper Locke's Payments Pros podcast features insights from our attorneys and business...

How often does Payments Pros – The Payments Law Podcast release new episodes?

Payments Pros – The Payments Law Podcast has 50 episodes. Check the episode list to see recent publication dates and frequency.

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Who hosts Payments Pros – The Payments Law Podcast?

Payments Pros – The Payments Law Podcast is created and hosted by Keith J. Barnett, Carlin A. McCrory, Troutman Pepper Locke, Jason M. Cover.
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