Print Run Podcast

This week we are thrilled to bring you an interview with Laura B. McGrath, whose new book MIDDLEMEN offers the largest-scale historical look at the field of literary agenting that we’ve ever seen. We talked to Laura about her experience talking to agents for the book, how being a debut writer herself has changed her view of publishing, and how what she has her eye on as publishing heads toward an uncertain future. This is one of our best conversations in the history of the show and we think you’ll love it. And be sure to buy MIDDLEMEN, available here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/middlemen-literary-agents-and-the-making-of-american-fiction-laura-b-mcgrath/df5cb73be04facb1?ean=9780691256160&next=t

In light of the recent controversy around Helen DeWitt winning and then losing the lucrative Windham-Campbell Prize, we talk about the dying era of the true literary eccentric, the artistic costs of writers being online, and making room for genuine artistic and intellectual curiosity in an age when every idle moment is filled with an obligation to produce optimized digital marketing content. Which artists get to be offline weirdos, anymore? What happens when an “artist” is a marketing idea instead of an authentic pursuit?

This week we talk about the shifting nature of the politics/culture nonfiction book market–who do publishers imagine their readers to be? How does the broader political horizon change which sorts of books become “sellable” in this category? And most importantly, how have the last few months of violent occupation in the Twin Cities changed the way we see what a “politics book” should even be or do? If you want to participate in our Query Drive to benefit Open Market at the Zion Community Commons, send $100 to us via Paypal ([email protected]) or Venmo (Laura-Zats) and (if not a gift slot), email your query to [email protected]. If you want to claim a gifted critique, email us to let us know!

After checking for a few minutes about the ICE occupation of the Twin Cities, we answer a reader question about genre as relates to Karen Russell’s THE ANTIDOTE, a novel that has both historical AND fantasy elements but which usually only gets talked about as “literary.” Is that a slight to fantasy? Does it show us something about the creation and marketing of genre? Are Memory Witches real? All this and more! Join us.

Episode 182—Print Run Goes Nano by Erik Hane and Laura Zats

This week we evaluate the pervasive notion that “literary” or “challenging” fiction is going away, and what that means for our reading culture more broadly in age where the AI slop is only becoming more prevalent. It’s a convo about genre, category, selling versus writing categories, and much more. Join us!

This week we took a look at a substack piece (link below!) that argued that literary agents can’t or don’t read well, as a jumping-off point to discuss the big picture of the query process, the ways we sort through a high volume of submissions, when art becomes boring business emails, and much more. We can read, we promise! The piece in question is here: https://antipodes.substack.com/p/literary-agents-dont-read-how-i-proved

This week, Laura got mad enough at Erik’s approach to his creative life that she’s devoting an episode to psychoanalyzing him and his writing practices. What could go wrong!

In light of the recent revelations about Unbound/Boundless’s failure to pay their debts to their authors, we talked about what went wrong, what flawed publishing impulse these mistakes come from, and the importance of publishing companies not pursuing growth at all costs. We also yell a little bit about AI. Come unpack the horrors with us!

This week…. Well folks there’s not much to say other than that we were pretty loose, given the general state of things in both publishing and beyond. We talk about MrBeast getting eight figures for a book, Dwayne The Rock Johnson being a True Crime Girlie, and the tariffs that promise to upend the publishing industry. Come hang out and blow off some steam with us.

This week we look at the announcement of a fascinating new agreement between eight small publishers that revolves around sharing shipping costs as a way to discuss the concept of cooperation in our industry; what do co-op initiatives like this do for the survival of independent publishing–or agenting, or writing, or anything else outside the industry’s largest corporate structures? We talk about how cooperation actually exists in opposition to consolidation, and the ways moves like this can actually free up the ability to take editorial and artistic risks.

In response to an excellent listener question, today we’re talking about how writers can approach asking potential agents about how they might handle specific aspects of their lives–whether that’s gender or sexual identity, disability, pregnancy or possible pregnancy, and much more–that could affect their publishing journey. We are in an age where all of us are growing increasingly vulnerable in different ways to what feels like a genuine fascist cultural backslide–this means that we all owe each other more solidarity, that our publishing relationships must account for the different ways in which we could become exposed to risk or harm. This is a big episode on “what we owe each other”: what agents owe writers, what publishers owe writers, what anyone who works in publishing owes anyone else in terms of helping all of us stay safe and protected from an increasingly dangerous world.

This week we use one of publishing’s favorite new portmanteaus–romantasy–to talk about the fluid nature of genre and subgenre, and discuss the ways in which these endless classifications can help bring new readers into a given category of book, as well as what drawbacks occur when we get more and more specific with our book taxonomy. We arrive at a key conclusion: the thing being categorized is not the book, but rather its readers. Join us!

We don’t need to tell you that the world feels pretty dark right now. The question then becomes: as creatives, as publishing people, as writers, readers, agents, whatever–what are we looking for to get us through? This episode we talk about what we’re hoping to see from and get out of art and publishing this next stretch, when all feels lost but we’re forging ahead anyway. Join us while we look for the light in the dark!

This week we talk about the functional death of social media as a promotional tool in the publishing industry. Now that we all agree that these platforms are actively corrosive to not only our body politic but literary culture specifically, where do we go next? What forms of cultural production might actually get people excited about books again, once we detach ourselves from the Slop Machines? We explore that vision and more. Join us!

It’s time for the annual Print Run Summer Check-In, where we list out all the ways we’re both keeping it together and losing our marbles. Summer is strange time in publishing, and it leads us to a conversation on deep work versus shallow, frenetic work, how we manage our interior creative selves in relation to the job, and the chaos that is sure to come this fall. Join us!

On the heels of some recent discourse on the trust between querying writers and agents managing submission piles, we go long on the culture of trust–or lack thereof–that exists between these two parts of the publishing industry, why it occurs, and what could fix it. We talk about the nature of ideas and copyright, the structures of the modern literary agency, publishing culture, and much more. It’s a fun and fiery episode–hope you enjoy!

In light of yet another round of agent chaos over the weekend, we got together to talk about the information climate in publishing at large, the ways in which even well-intentioned agents can contribute to gatekeeping and access issues for writers. In an age when there are more agents, writers, and information about agents and writers than ever before, everyone could stand to examine whether they’re making publishing a less anxious and more transparent place that’s open to all types of people–or the opposite.

This week we get a little bit mad at the Forced Waiting that publishing imposes on all of us, and it builds to a call to arms: you–writers, agents, editors, whoever–don’t just have to wait quietly for progress to happen to you. No matter your situation in publishing, you can get out there and make something happen as a person with agency and the owner of your own career and path. We address the flipside too, of course: agents (including us!) need to adjust our habits so that there’s less silence, waiting, and wondering. The world is burning! Let’s make moves!

In our first episode of 2024, we take a look at the publishing landscape for the year ahead. We believe that there could be several culminating moments of rupture or change in the near future, in everything from AI’s implementation in the industry to how workers in publishing choose to respond to their own working conditions. We get a little rowdy and we have a good time–come join us!

This week’s theme, across multiple topics, is that workers in publishing deserve to be paid and supported in all the ways required for them to live well and do their jobs to the best of their abilities. We start with a chat about the Half Price Books Union’s contract negotiations, and finish with a look at the recent survey data from AALA. Join us!

This week we use two recent stories–the acquisition of Simon & Schuster by the investment firm KKR and the proliferation of Artificial Intelligence usage in various book-related shenanigans–as a way of talking about something big and broad: publishing looking more and more like the tech world each day. Why might the Silicon Valley approach to business not work in publishing, and why do these recent trends alarm us for reasons big and small, aesthetic and substantive? Join us and we’ll talk through it all.

In the wake of what feels like an endless round of layoffs, restructurings, consolidations, and any other corporate terms for “good people losing their jobs,” we talk about how this constant reshuffling affects the industry as a whole and specifically our jobs as agents. Spoiler alert: it’s not great! But we talk through it and let the feelings out, and do our best to express some solidarity along the way. Join us.

We’ve had a lot of Serious Content lately and it’s a summer Friday, so come take a break with us while we chat about what we’ve got going on this summer, in terms of book stuff and otherwise. One of our more vibey episodes rather than a big heavy topic, so come hang out!

This week in the wake of a LOT of agency shakeups, we asked an extremely basic question: what if the publishing world treated writers like they were professionals? This frame lets us talk about the discourse from the past few weeks, all which shares the common theme of “treating writers really poorly.” Come vent with us, come laugh with us, come imagine a better way of doing things with us.

This week we talk about everyone’s favorite publishing topic that never gives anyone anxiety: gatekeeping and access! We explore how agents can do better jobs of creating an equitable and open playing field for writers trying to break into publishing, even while inherently positioned as a “gate” between the writers and the publishers. The conversation gets to some other places too–we call conferences scams again (oops), we talk about different approaches to finding clients, and much more.

We’ve heard it so many times in so many places: editors falling in love with books, agents loving manuscripts from the first page, deal announcements centered on how much every party involved LOVES the book and working with each other. To put it lightly, “love” as a publishing concept in acquisitions can be crazy-making to try to understand, anticipate, or even manufacture. This episode we talk through, in the realm of signing projects and getting book deals, what we talk about when we talk about love.

At many different moments in the publishing process, we are asked to stay quiet about news, or keep certain developments secret, or not post the thing we’re dying to share on social media. How come? This week we talk about the different silences in publishing–everything from etiquette during the query process to not doing a cover reveal before marketing says so. Some silences are helpful for writers, some are not, and we try to sift through what all of it means.

This week we gave each other a prompt: which books have been the most transformative or influential in shaping our book careers? It’s an open-ended question and we took it that way–in this episode we talk about books we worked on, books that changed our working categories, books we loved, hated, and more. It’s a wide-ranging show that gets into all the different ways individual titles can alter how we do our jobs.

This week we were lucky enough to have HarperCollins associate editor Rachel Kambury on the show, and we talked to her all about her union’s strike, what about their working conditions led them to this historic moment, and how the industry might change in light of this watershed moment in publishing-worker solidarity. We thought it was important for folks to hear directly from the HarperCollins workers, and we’re very grateful for Rachel joining us to talk about her experience firsthand.

Folks, it is that time of year once again. As we set off on our yearly month of holiday memes and other nonsense, we’re adding in some real reflection on the truths that a strange, volatile year of publishing and (and life) has taught us. This episode we get a little personal and talk about the year that was, and set us off on a month of taking stock of where we’ve been and where we’re headed. It’ll be fun too, we promise!

This week we take a look at the HarperCollins Union’s strike for better working conditions, discuss the possible destruction of Twitter, and in general share how we navigate the strangest part of the book calendar–the holidays. It’s a lively grab-bag with a healthy dose of pro-labor sentiment to get your Thanksgiving week started right.

This week’s convo starts out as a discussion of our relationships with books as physical objects and ends up… everywhere? We talk about how we associate meaning and memory with books, our reading habits, when a book actually becomes a book and not a manuscript or a draft, and plenty else. We pick at all the seams of how people interact and place value on the concept of a book, and it ends up being one of our more personal episodes. Join us!

This week we talk about Barnes & Noble’s decision to stock fewer hardcover titles, especially in YA and MG categories. How will this affect debut writers and marginalized creators, why might they make this choice in the first place, and how will publishers respond?

This week we talk about–what else–the court case involving the DOJ vs. PRH, regarding their attempted merger with Simon & Schuster. Specifically, we analyze how the executives testifying have been talking about the industry at large, and what it reveals about corporate publishing strategy, and how it affects authors who aren’t celebrities or politicians. If you’ve been seeing chatter about this case, this is the episode that gets you caught up. Join us!

Pettiness! Jealousy! Stop lying, you’ve felt it as much as the next person, especially in an industry like publishing. So have we, and here we present a full, honest episode on how we process those feelings in a (hopefully) productive way. Folks, it’s time to let the darkness in–join us!

This… is one of our more loose episodes ever. We sit down and catch up on everything from what we’re reading to how Laura avoids death while foraging in the woods, from an analysis of what makes a good children’s board book to how we’re carrying on during a moment of intense national trauma. Also we talk about book advances for a minute. Also we talk about toucans for a minute. At one point we get distracted by Oreos on a shelf. Come join the vibe–you’ll like it here, we promise.

This week, in light of recent heated discourse around what awards like the Lambda are “for,” we thought we’d break down why awards and indeed all literary criticism are not meant to be objective signifiers of quality, but are rather reflections of individual critical perspectives and the context that surrounds them. To be clear: we prefer it that way! Come listen and find out why.

This week we talk about Brandon Sanderson’s wildly successful Kickstarter campaign for his next novels, a move so bold and unique that we simply have to ask: what wrong and/or inapplicable lessons will traditional publishing learn from this isolated incident? We break down why the Sanderson plan worked for him, why it won’t on a mass scale for others, and which observations we hope publishing DOESN’T make in response to it. Join us!

WOW it is nice to be back in the recording studio! In our first episode this side of Erik having a child, we talk about the recent trend of editors leaving their jobs and even outright leaving the industry. What does it mean for publishing when its talent is burning out or choosing other paths at this rate? How does it affect publishing houses, our work as agents, and writers? Join us for the beginning of a new era of Print Run–we’re here, we’re energized, and we can’t wait to get back in touch with all of you.

On the “season finale” episode before Erik goes on paternity leave for a few months, we talk about the many swirling feelings around going on leave in the publishing industry, artistic anxiety in the face of looming parenthood, how we’ve thought about our professional goals in relation to the actual fabric of our lives, and the ways we’ve tried to create sustainable ways of making sure our work and art flow from our actual life, and not the other way around. It’s a personal episode on the (potential) eve of Erik’s first child being born, so join us and let’s work through some feelings about art and life!

After another RWA mess surrounding their recent issuing of the Vivian Award, we use the occasion to ask a fundamental question: what’s the point of these organizations, and how can we make them do what we actually want them to do? We talk about how institutions like RWA--or really any big literary collective--could be used to do what we actually need: supporting writers who wouldn’t otherwise have the networks they need, get its members useful information and opportunities, and push publishing in a more inclusive and egalitarian direction.

This week, we made the whole plane out of To Loon It May Concerns. We spent the episode answering your most burning and specific publishing questions, from all corners of the writing and publishing world. Come hang out for a free-flowing advice session!

It’s summer, and in publishing that means one thing: we’re all getting each other’s out-of-offices. In this episode we talk about how, actually, that’s a good thing--it underscores that people in the industry are irreplaceable, that so much of what we do is built on real and lasting connections we have with other specific colleagues, and how as much as the powers that be would like us to believe that they could find someone else to do any of our jobs, it simply isn’t true. What would publishing look like if it acknowledged the irreplaceability of its workforce, and acted accordingly? Much different and better, we argue here.

This week we take a look at the far too slanted battlefield on which people who want change in publishing are forced to fight--and how, rather than responding to each new publishing injustice on a case by case basis, we might try instead to change the terms of engagement in our favor. On the heels of the deceptive phrase “we came to publish, not to cancel,” we argue that even in accepting the implied definitions of either word we’re ceding crucial ground. Join us for a wide-ranging episode that covers everything from appropriation to publishing’s role as a producer of culture.

This week we talk about the state of nonfiction publishing amidst the changing conditions of both the industry and the wider world--how has a pandemic and political turbulence affected our relationship to “truth” and “expertise” in books? We talk through the new moment of popular science publishing, as well as how it might follow the arc we saw over prior years in more explicitly political publishing. Then, to finish, a To Loon It May Concern about how to manage trope fatigue in genre fiction, especially as an author of a marginalized identity.

This week we take on a term we all love but can never quite pin down: speculative fiction. What do industry people--and readers--mean when they say “speculative,” and what does the distinction between aesthetics, genre, and prestige with regard to the term say about the market at large? What are we talking about when we, as book people, talk about speculative fiction? Come help us work through it.

This week we take a look at Laura McGrath’s fascinating paper on how literary agents shape the acquisitions landscape. It’s got a lot of insights we agree with and some things we push back on a bit, but overall the conversation ends up being a close look at what “taste” actually is, how people in our position exist in relation to corporate power, and much more. Join us! The paper we discuss is here, for your reference: https://academic.oup.com/alh/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/alh/ajab005/6161353?redirectedFrom=fulltext#230638685

This week, we unpack a fascinating essay about the ways in which Philip Roth managed his authorial image and career, and the various questions it raises about what “success” is, how to be a good literary citizen, and what happens when an author’s “brand” becomes a part of their writing itself. It’s a conversation about moving and shaking in the modern literary landscape, how social media changes that thinking, how it all relates to power, and how it connects to the art that gets made in this environment.

We’re back! In our first episode since going on leave in late 2020, we talk about how our approach and views toward the industry may have shifted since our time of last recording. This transitions into a conversation about the public performance of “working” on social media, and leads to a conversation about the interplay between social media posturing and power in the industry--spoiler alert: that power dynamic needs some fixing. It’s great to be back, and we’re so glad you’re joining us again!