Sound School Podcast

How powerful can audio storytelling be? So powerful that distraught listeners stand-up, wave their arms, and yell "Turn it off! Turn it off!" That's how good the documentary we're featuring on Sound School is. 

Jad Abumrad and FayFay Odudu, drop some valuable audio storytelling reporting and production insights on the latest episode of Sound School. Jad and FayFay recently earned a Peabody Award for "Fela Kuti: Fear No Man," the podcast about Fela, the Nigerian saxophone player and political activist. Jad and FayFay sat down with Lesedi Mogoathle in February for an online chat sponsored by Radio Workshop. It's a valuable conversation you'll want to hear. 

Almost every reporting trip has its pitfalls. Andrew Leland's story for Radiolab in 2022 had more than most including nausea, flying in the equivalent of zero gravity, and his blindness. On this encore episode of Sound School, Andrew lays out how he navigated it all. 

You could describe it as a long walk. Or a climb up a hill. But, it seems like Salman Khan's path to launching a new podcast was more like a slow, persistent march. Hear how Salman practically willed "More Muslim" into existence on the latest Sound School. It's inspiring. 

Back when I worked at radio stations, people joked "Silence is bad juju." We're not supposed to include much, if any, silence in audio stories -- for broadcast or podcast. Noam Hassenfeld went the opposite direction and embraced silence -- lots of it! -- on a recent episode of Unexplainable, the science podcast from Vox. Noam explains how he craftily deployed silence in his storytelling on this episode of Sound School. 

The first question I had to ask Pejk Malinovsky was "Why the hell did you think that would make for a good radio story?" Of course it was. Pejk followed a cow for eleven hours recording her every move and turned it into a 30-minute documentary. Naturally, Pejk answered saying "A cow a day keeps the boredom away." Find out what he means on this episode of Sound School. 

Julie Shapiro and John Delore made a pilot for the Audio Flux podcast. Okay, now what? How did they go from pilot in 2024 to podcast in late 2025? On this episode of Sound School, a deep dive comparing the Audio Flux pilot to the first episode of the podcast and the thinking behind Julie and John's production choices.

Short Cuts said no. WNYC said no. Hell Gate said no. Even Transom said no. Finally, after about six months of pitching, Will Coley heard "Yes." Will regales us with his story of how he made it to "yes" with his pitch about public nudity on the latest Sound School. 

Noel King says first things first. Before writing a story, take a friend to a bar and tell them the story. On this archive episode of Sound School, Noel says that's the approach she took back when she reported for Planet Money and it worked like a charm. Her writing was more like telling. 

Twenty-one year old reporter Kabir Jagram says young men in South Africa are stoic. Holding back emotions is a survival mechanism in a country wracked with youth unemployment and that can lead to serious mental health issues. So, how then, as a young man himself struggling with expressing feelings, did Kabir manage to produce a captivating radio documentary about emotions? 

We're starting the new year with an antidote to 2025 -- two episodes featuring inspiring early-career producers. On this episode, 28-year-old Anna Van Dine from Vermont who deployed an unusual storytelling maneuver that Rob hasn't heard in years. 

Here's your New Year's resolution: Attend a Transom Traveling Workshop. That's right. You know you wanna. The year 2026 is the year to give yourself a treat -- a little radio self-love. For inspiration, here are two stellar stories produced by new and emerging audio producers at a Transom workshop in Nashville back in 2019. 

If you're just beginning in audio storytelling or have some experience under your belt, you could toil alone making and making and making stories hoping to get better. And that might be the exact right thing for you. But, if you'd like a hand up from experienced producers, sign up for a Transom Traveling Workshop. For inspiration, listen to the story Champika Fernando produced at a Workshop this summer. And be sure to listen for the surprising maneuver they pulled at the end of the piece.

When you limit language, you limit thinking. When you limit thinking, you limit creativity. When you limit creativity, audio storytellers wind up making the same thing over and over and over again and that's not good. In this archive episode from 2022, producer Jazmine Green says we need new language to describe our work. And we can start by borrowing from art and architecture.

Audio reporter Samantha Broun says young people are "full of life, complicated, passionate, confused, and they want to talk and want to be heard." That's why Sam offers them her curiosity and her caring ear for her project "Small True Things."  Rob spoke to Sam in October for Sound School on the mainstage at the annual Audio Festival in Ljubljana, Slovenia. 

Susan Stamberg sang her own song at NPR. Her writing and her voice, you could always tell it was Susan behind the mic. She died at the age of 87 in October. In honor of Susan, we present this archive episode of Sound School where she lays out her best practices for reporting on the visual arts. 

Neena Pathak produced a very touching story about grieving the death of her father. She says the humor in the story wasn't uncouth. It was how she captured the truth. 

In this archive episode from 2018, legendary NPR reporter and raconteur John Burnett answers a perplexing question "How to make an immigration story visual when no mics are allowed in the courtroom?" Answer:  Fill your note book with color notes. 

"Host sits down with a reporter." That's a good way to describe how Radiolab stories are produced. Same with "two-ways" on NPR. You can hear those approaches everywhere. But, how else can a "host sit down with a reporter?" The Ghost of a Chance podcast from the Minnesota Star Tribune offers a solid example. 

Writing like it's a television drama complete with instructions for a camera operator. That's an unusual maneuver for a podcast. One I'd never heard before. Neither had Susan Burton until she wrote that way herself in the latest season of The Retrievals, a production from Serial and The New York Times. 

NPR's Robert Smith says when he's writing and gets to the end of a story he has empty pockets. He's used all the good stuff and left nothing for the end. To combat that problem, Robert studied endings from some of his favorite reporters and put together a list of categories that broadly describe memorable story endings.

"Don't say rabbit, see rabbit." Write it on a sticky note and post it where you can see it at all times. It's a mantra that will save you from cheesy sound design. 

 A constant piece of advice for producers is "Find a good talker." But what about shy people? Given their reticence, they may not be great talkers but they may have a good story to tell. The question is "How do you help shy people open up?" Erika Lantz and her sister Elin Lantz-Lesser of The Turning podcast have answers. Good ones. 

Zach Mack really put it to his father. For "Alternate Realities," a series from NPR's "Embedded" podcast, Zach asked his dad pointed questions about the conspiracy theories he believes in that are driving a wedge into the family. On this episode of Sound School, Zach talks to Sally Herships of Radio Boot Camp about the challenges of asking dicey questions. 

"I think of radio stations as musical instruments." That's what Steve Junker, the managing editor at WCAI said to Rob over a couple of drinks one night. Soon after, Rob put Steve in front of a mic and asked him "What the heck are you talking about??" 

It's time for Leila Fadel at NPR to receive another award for her reporting. Last December, her stories from Syria after the fall of Assad were essential listening. And, as Rob notes in this episode of Sound School, her writing was top-notch. 

There's a reason why serialized podcast episodes often start with "Last time on (insert name of podcast)" followed by a montage of quotes. It works. It's an effective way to help bring a listener back into a story. But it's used *far* too often. Surely, there's a better way, right? Rob spotlights the way writer and reporter Basia Cummings avoided the trope in "Pig Iron."

A dear friend of Transom and all creative audio producers passed way last month -- Larry Massett. This episode of Sound School joins the chorus of voices on Transom marking Larry's passing. Rob presents "A Trip to the Dentist,"  a legendary story Larry made in 1977 for NPR. Easily one of the most hallucinogenic stories aired on the network. You'll want your headphones on for this episode. 

I don't care how much good tape you have. I don't care if the scoring and mixing are superlative. I don't care if the narrator is a solid storyteller. If a story lacks strong writing, the story will fall flat. Great writing is essential. On this episode of Sound School, the brilliant writing in the podcast Noble.  

You've got all the good tape you need. Now what? How do you structure the story? Bradley Campbell has a few suggestions. He sketched them -- on cocktail napkins! 

Take a short walk into deep radio history. Julia Barton and Sarah Montague join Rob to talk about two audio storytelling classics from the 1930s: "Seems Like Radio Is Here to Stay," an homage to radio by Norman Corwin, and the anti-fascist play "The Fall of the City," by Archibald MacLiesh. Old school radio at its best!

The best way -- sometimes the *only* way -- to describe an element in a story that is disruptive and distracting for listeners is this: chicken bomb. This year, 2025, is the 20th anniversary of "chicken bomb" entering the lexicon of audio storytelling. What exactly is it? With help from Ira Glass, we'll explain. 

In this bonus episode, Rob takes his conversation with Chenjerai Kumanyika one step further. He digs in a bit more to the big question from the last episode: Who is the "you" telling this story now?" 

Chenjerai Kumanyika delivered the goods. Rob interviewed Chenjerai on stage at the recent On Air Fest where Chenjraie was passionate, animated, and electric as he talked about a question he sees as essential for anyone in audio storytelling to consider. We're sure you'll be as transfixed as the audience.

Just recently, Hillary Frank relaunched her popular podcast The Longest Shortest Time. This archive episode takes us back to Hillary's early days, when she was just finding her way in podcasting -- as we all were. 

You want scenes in your story. But, reporting in the field isn't an option. What then? Simon Adler, a senior producer at Radiolab has an answer: interview for scenes using "the layered approach." 

Nichole Hill pitched her show idea again and again. And, again and again, podcast companies said "no." But, that didn't stop Nichole. She said "I'm doing it myself!" Our Ancestors Were Messy, a podcast featuring hidden stories from the archives of historic, Black newspapers, launches February 5th. Sound School has the backstory to how Nichole dialed in the format for the show and why she chose a mix of chat and narrative styles. 

Just over 50 years ago, in 1974, NPR took to the airwaves for a 25-hour-broadcast that Rob thinks may be one of the most tedious recordings he's ever heard and one that was also an incredible broadcast service. What is it? You'll have to listen. Trust us. It's worth it. 

Rob's interview with Misha Euceph is one of his favorites. As he says, she's very clear, engaging, and insightful about the craft of audio storytelling. On this archive episode of the show from 2019, they discuss why Misha believed it was important to start each episode of her podcast "Tell Them, I Am" with a personal anecdote.  

Let's state the obvious: Daniel Alarcón is a gifted writer. It's evident from the writing in "The Good Whale," the latest series from Serial that Daniel wrote and hosted. Rob put his writing under the microscope and heard a lot of satisfying maneuvers -- and a couple that weren't so satisfying. 

Nothing seems guaranteed these days for creative audio makers. "Short Cuts" was recently cancelled and "Pretendians" is seeking funding for a second season, two shows on this episode of Sound School that are high on Rob's must-listen list because they elevate the craft and deliver essential storytelling. 

WCAI, the public radio station for Cape Cod, has been told it needs to move -- to leave the home it broadcasts from. An actual home. A former captain's house. News that the house had been sold startled the station staff and the community. In this episode, Rob laments what would be a strike against the station's deep commitment to local service. 

The story from Slovenia on this episode of Sound School is hyper-local -- so local, you might not catch all the cultural references. But, the reporter, Ajda Kus, says that's okay. The key to telling a great local story is to give weight to universal themes so that all listeners can still relate to the piece. 

When should a reporter turn around a leave? At what point do should they say "I won't report on these people. They need their space, not a stranger with a microphone." Jay Nathan faced that exact situation some years ago reporting on a man who was dying of cancer and the friend taking care of him. But, instead of turning around and leaving, Jay stayed. Jay is still haunted by the decision. 

Robert Krulwich, formerly of Radiolab, once said "how you write is basically who you are." It's a profound statement, a kind-of koan. It requires a little bit of thought. Krulwich can be that way. But, it leads to an essential question for anyone who writes: "Who are you as a storyteller?" 

"To play and to fail and to get to know each other and to celebrate the craft of making audio... What's better than that," Jasmin Bauomy asks. When inspiration struck, Jasmin put together a four-day audio retreat for about a dozen producers from Berlin. She called the retreat "The Ecco" and it yielded some fantastic storytelling. 

We tell stories in sound for many, many reasons. For our listener's hearts and minds. For community. For self-expression. For the democracy. For listener's ears. Yes. Their ears. On this episode of The Sound School Podcast, Rob relishes the ear catching qualities of work from Delia Derbyshire (BBC), Michel Martin (NPR), and the Making Gay History podcast. 

Say you're listening to a great narrative podcast. The host has really grabbed your attention and you're pulled in. Then, out of nowhere, the narrator swears. Not once. Not twice. But three times. Including f-bombs. Is that a turn off for listeners? Should narrators swear? Dan Taberski defends his swears in his latest podcast. 

Patient privacy in medical settings is essential. So, how does a reporter convince a facility to let them in with a microphone and assure anonymity of the patient? Selena Simmons-Duffin has answers. She is a health policy reporter at NPR who recently reported inside a primary care facility that provides standard medical care as well as abortions.  

There are four kinds of luck. Unlucky. No luck. Lucky. And radio luck. On this archive episode of Sound School, Hillary Frank digs into the *incredible* radio luck she encountered reporting a story about teens and their "robot babies."