The Monkey Dance

Ola Ali joins the podcast to chat about modeling the legal journey of persons who migrate across borders. With a background in physics and complex systems, Ola's work tries to describe the dynamics of migration, specifically the legal and institutional experience of someone who migrates. We chat about how long it takes to gain legal stability in a new country and the differences in the legal journey based on nationality. We also discuss housing, access to rights and healthcare, and forced mobility.   Guest: Ola Ali https://csh.ac.at/ola-ali/

There is a lot of money behind keeping corruption difficult to track, but there are also plenty of folks working hard to build better tools for tracking it. The only problem is that exposing it can be extremely dangerous. In this episode from 2 years ago, we sit with Irene Tello Arista and chat about how to define corruption, the systemic pressures that allow it to take hold, and discuss how grand corruption and petty corruption are different not only in scale but in methods. We cover a bit of Irene's background in Mexico starting an NGO to uncover corruption networks, human behavior more generally, and how corruption looks different in different places.   Full show notes on the website

Cooperation is deeply embedded in the genetics of our species. Looking at the evolution of cooperation can teach us a lot about how to build better societies. Given the state of the world, this episode with Nikhil Chaudhary from February 2024 is more relevant than ever. - What can evolutionary anthropology teach us about ourselves? We sit down with Nikhil Chaudhary and chat about everything from the formation of the self to societal pressures. We cover cooperation and collaboration, hunter-gatherer societies, how to think about thinking, managing uncertainty, cultural narratives, and everything in between.   Show notes on the website!

With AI increasingly being used in wars, the glaring question regulators face as a society is one of allocating responsibility when an autonomous tool of war commits a war crime.   Little progress has been made on this front over the past few years despite the increased military applications of AI. That's why I wanted to repost the Episode 6, from our archive, with Pelin Kasar:   Who is responsible for the actions of machines? We chat with Pelin Kasar about the current state of philosophical debates around how to approach the ethical considerations of machines that seem to think.   More show notes on the Monkey Dance Website

When living under an autocratic regime, should we continue voting or abstain in protest?   Zoltan Miklosi joins the podcast to talk about the political obligations of democrats who live under autocratic regimes. We discuss the consequences both of voting in elections despite the overwhelming odds in favor of the autocrat and of refusing to participate in elections in protest of the regime.   We discuss specific cases of autocracies which hold elections around the world, about why they would hold elections in the first place, and what each side has to gain and to lose. We also chat about democracy as an ideal more broadly, and whether one has any obligations to the society or governance structure they live under.   Guest: Zoltan Miklosi   More from Zoltan: 1. Political Obligation in Electoral Authoritarianism: The Case of Hungary   2. Social Equality and Democratic Authority

What determines whether a particular event is classified as part of an existing conflict or a random act of violence? Niraj Kushwaha joins the podcast to talk about modeling instances of armed conflict using fine grained datasets to better understand the emergence of conflicts and how they might be related. We discuss how conflicts can be categorized into three main types, and the primary variables that allow for their categorization. This takes us to the broader applications of this work, from modeling epidemics to climate change, and how statistical physics can be used to form hypotheses about the likelihood of future events of particular types.   Guest: Niraj Kushwaha   Niraj's latest paper on Data-driven conflict classification The database Niraj mentioned: Armed Conflict & Event Data Project

Can any interaction between two people ever really be fair?   In this episode from February 2024, we sit down with Angarika Deb to chat about how to understand fairness, and what it means in relation to equality, equity, and justice. We end up covering a wide range of topics that fairness implicates, from gendered divisions of labor and resource distribution, to political movements and social justice.   Guest: Angarika Deb   Visit the Monkey Dance Website for show notes

Every human has the same fundamental rights. That might sound trivial, but the universal access to human rights is being actively debated in courts around the world as well as in public and political discourse.   Lena Riemer joins the podcast to talk about the legal basis for granting every human being the same fundamental rights, how this applies to cases of migration, and her experiences both as a lawyer and as a legal scholar.   We chat about how human rights are being eroded and circumvented by policies, how some governments are actively working to obfuscate violations of human rights law, and the dehumanization of individuals who are forced to migrate from their homes due to some combination of conflict and climate change.   As a heads up, this conversation gets emotionally trying at times given the subject matter.     You can also watch the episode on our youtube channel   If you want to read more of Lena's work and on the topic in general:   1. Lena's blog post on recent jurisprudence on climate change and human mobility and advancements in front of the Inter-American Court of human Rights: Leading the Way: The IACtHR's Advisory Opinion on Human Rights and Climate Change   2. Lena's blog post on the US expulsion policy: Beyond Borders, Beyond Rights? The U.S. “Staging Expulsion” Policy and the Future of Externalization - Opinio Juris   3. Lena's blog post on Germany's attempts to undermine Asylum protections: Undermining Asylum Protection Through Administrative Shortcuts: Germany’s Proposal to Designate Safe Countries of Origin by Executive Decree.    4. An article from the ACLU on the state of the US border: The Border Patrol Was Monstrous Under Obama. Imagine How Bad It Is Under Trump. | ACLU   5. The referenced American Convention on Human Rights

What happens when gangs step in to provide services for communities that governments aren't able or willing to provide? David Cerero Guerra joins the podcast to talk about his ethnographic work chronicling the equilibrium local gangs have reached with the government of Colombia in the city of Medellin.  While the primary activity of the gangs is selling illicit drugs which harm the community, they also have managed to ensure the reduction of physical violence and facilitate government services like water and electricity to under served communities.  We chat about the historical and political contexts which allowed for the emergence of such a unique unspoken agreement, and how the government communicates with the gangs without any official channels.  Guest: David Cerero Guerra You can also watch the episode on youtube  

We refer to morality a lot when judging behavior, but what exactly are we referring to?   Emese Havadtői joins us to talk about the structure and emergence of moral frameworks. We chat about whether morality can be understood in terms of behavior, without a universalist understanding of morality, and how evolution plays a role in our drive to behave morally. The debate also brushes up against what it means to be "good" and whether it is understood by looking at individual behavior or if it exists as a truth in the universe.   Guest: Emese Havadtői Cohost: Maria Federova   You can also watch the conversation on youtube

What is the brain's relationship to information?   Francesco Poli joins to talk about the brain, the mind, and the individual differences that amount to human curiosity. We talk about adaptivity, how our experiences shape our relationship to information, and what this means for our behavior. We also cover the value of information, dealing with uncertainty as a concept, and the importance of a good learning environment.   Guest: Francesco Poli   You can also watch the conversation on youtube  

How do we choose which norms to follow? And how do we change them for a more equitable society?   Camilo Martinez joins to talk about how we learn, communicate, and enforce social norms. We also chat about the historical trajectory of norms, how norms have evolved as society has, and when we can overthrow prejudiced norms which seek to marginalize groups.   Guest: Camilo Martinez Cohost: Pelin Kasar To catch more of Pelin, check out Episode 6, Episode 28, Episode 32.   You can also watch the podcast on youtube.  

How can we make sense of the variety of beliefs that are prevalent in society?   Peter Steiglechner joins the podcast to talk about the role of identity and group belonging in understanding why people believe what they believe. We chat about modeling belief networks and understanding the role of bias in our engagement with information. We also cover how disagreements emerge and when consensus is possible, and more generally about existing in a group and dealing with a diversity of opinion.   Guest: Peter Steiglechner Co-host: Ákos Szegőfi

Why do we engage with information online?   Hannah Metzler joins the podcast to talk about the role of emotions and personal identity when investigating the spread of misinformation. We chat about a lot of the myths surrounding misinformation, the circumstances that make certain beliefs appealing to people, and why engaging with negative content is so much more tempting than positive content.   Guest: Hannah Metzler   Monkey Dance Podcast Website

Why do some resistance groups resort to armed struggle? And when do those groups decide it's time to put down arms? Barbora Valik joins to talk about the factors that can lead to the violent mobilization of resistance movements, particularly as a strategy to call attention to their cause, and what needs to change for the violence to end. We speak specifically about self-determination movements of indigenous peoples in Mexico, Colombia, and Chile. We chat about how states have many means of suppressing dissent, how they often avoid negotiating with groups they systematically marginalize, and why this can lead to groups struggling to seek leverage by any means necessary, ultimately turning to violence as a tool to gain concessions. We also discuss why self-determination struggles need to ensure they control their own narrative, and why keeping the groups demands at the forefront of that narrative seems to be a successful strategy.   Guest: Barbora Valik   You can also watch the episode on youtube   Notes from Barbora: Socialization = the process through which a movement positions itself within a community of other movements with the goal of emulating, learning, and normatively legitimising certain strategies. Group leverage = the capacity of the movement to influence and exert pressure on state actors, deriving from demographic characteristics, broad alliances, organisational capacity, and inclusion. Regime type = the nature of the political regime, capturing whether the context within which the movement operates is democratic, authoritarian, or democratising. For a graph of Barbora's model, visit The Monkey Dance Website  

From the Archive: Episode 2 Inequality seems to be a fundamental aspect of the society we've created. Is an unequal power dynamic endemic to any interaction between a set of individuals? In this episode from 2 years ago, Guilherme and I talk about how to define the concept of power, the function of unequal power dynamics, and how it manages to generate stable systems that perpetuate inequities that last for generations.   On a small break from the podcast and have been thinking a bit more about power again, particularly in epistemic contexts, so thought it would be a good time to repost this. Planning to have new episodes out again starting in October.   Full show notes at: https://www.monkeydancepod.com/episodes/episode-2

How do infants treat information they come across?   I sit down with Velisar Manea to chat about how the infant mind develops, the types of biases evolution might have built in, and how they manage to be so adaptive.   We also chat a good bit of theory, particularly about whether we need to attribute mental states to others or whether statistical prediction is enough. We chat about the evolutionary usefulness of biological constraints, the caloric demands of cognition versus the energy demands of AI, and whether something like an LLM can ever actually reach cognition or just mimic it.   Really excited to bring you this chat, but again still having some microphone issues. Still some trial an error!

Nicolas Goupil joins me to chat about his work spanning everything from forming early childhood memories, to visual cognition, to hierarchies in groups. It's a fun, wide ranging conversation and we cover a good bit of ground, from developmental cognitive neuroscience to social cognition.   In Copenhagen for a few months, so the next several episode will be on the road. Sorry if the audio quality is not as good as usual!

How do our biases interfere with our willingness to learn? Pelin Kasar and Juliette Vazard both return to the podcast for a chat at the intersection of beliefs, biases, and curiosity. We talk about curiosity -- how to define it, its emotional role, and its relationship with learning -- and about biases -- what a bias is, its implications in society, and its relationship to curiosity. The conversation covers a lot of ground as we work through definitions and reach mutual understandings of each of the terms,   Guest: Pelin Kasar Guest: Juliette Vazard   To hear more from Pelin check out Episode 6 and Episode 28 To hear more from Juliette check out Episode 20 and Episode 24

Resource management is a difficult problem. Deciding who gets access to certain resources, and how much of it they have access to, can often be existential struggle. This is complicated with issues of historical access of particular groups, over exploited ecosystems nearing collapse, and geopolitical shifts that lead to changes in demand. We sit down with Arev Papazian to chat about the difficulties of delegation and determining permissions. We cover some of the ground regarding the challenges of maintaining a healthy ecosystem, one that includes humans, when there are so many stakeholders involved (not all of them altruistic). Guest: Arev Papazian

What makes someone a good source to learn from? Melissa Koenig explains how we learn from others: from the strategies we use to the biases we lean on when making epistemic decisions. We chat about the emergence of racial and gender biases and how we often seek information from sources that we identify with, covering the dynamics of of social identities and justice. And we end with chatting about the role of science in society and the importance of not separating work and activism. Melissa Koenig is a professor at the Institute of Child Development https://icd.umn.edu/melissa-koenig This is the first time trying out recording on the road, sorry for the clumsiness of the audio and video but learned a few good things for next time!

Joining the podcast is Reto Schneider, veteran science journalist who has dealt with everything from the science of opinion formation to the origins of land ownership and seemingly everything in between. We talk about a variety of things that have become mild obsessions for him over the years including things like his decades long monthly column on obscure science experiments, data scientists trying to predict the future, and the arbitrariness of prison sentences.    For more, check out: Reto's website Reto's Wikipedia page

How do we decide whether someone should be held responsible for something?   We sit down with cognitive scientist Katarina Kovačević to talk about ascribing responsibility, and how our intuitions about responsibility shape behavior. We chat about the differences between knowing and not knowing what we're doing is wrong, versus the grey area of having had access to the knowledge but avoiding it.   We also cover Katarina's work on victim blaming, what all of this means about our relationship with the legal systems we live under, and how to account for situations where a machine (like AI) is involved.   Joining us as a co-host is philosopher Pelin Kasar (our guest from Episode 6).   Guest: Katarina Kovačević Co-host: Pelin Kasar

This episode was recorded at 11:30 on Tuesday, March 11, 2025.   Yesterday (March 10), students blocked access to the state-run Serbian public television headquarters, accusing it of biased coverage. As of this recording, hundreds of students continue to block access to the building.   There is a major protest scheduled for Saturday, March 15.   Since November of 2024, students in universities across Serbia have been organizing mass protests across the country against the corrupt, autocratic government of Aleksandar Vučić. While the media coverage has focused on the protests themselves, the engine of the student-led movement is a unified, multilateral experiment in absolute democracy that has managed to maintain a flat hierarchy and a single set of demands.   Serbian philosopher and anthropologist Aleksandra Knežević joins us to talk about her ongoing work with the movement as both a participant and a researcher. She has been allowed by the students to research the movement, and has been conducting interviews and joining the student meetings as an observer.   Guest: Aleksandra Knežević Institute for Philosophy and Social Theory, University of Belgrade   Check out Aleksandra's autoethnography of her experience with the movement: An Autoethnographic Account of the Anti-Corruption Student Protests in Serbia 2024/25   Aleksandra also recommends:   1. An academic article by Katarina Beširević on the protests: “Nisi nadležan”: How a Student Movement Dictates Political Change in Serbia (2024/2025)   2. From The Guardian by Adriana Zaharijević: Serbia’s students are showing the world how to restore democratic hope   If the links don't work in your podcast player, you can find links to Aleksandra's paper and the other articles in the show notes:  https://www.monkeydancepod.com/episodes/episode-27  

Making sense of a series of graphic representations is not simple, but our brains manage to do it with little effort. Our conversation with Neil Cohn starts out with a rethinking of language, moving from an understanding built solely on spoken language to the ability to express meaning across a range of modalities. This moves us into Neil's work on how we develop the ability to understand visual narratives and what this means for our understanding of language as a whole. We chat about emojis, comics, children's books, and a bunch of other fun stuff.   Guest: Neil Cohn (personal website) Co-Host: Xueyi Yao   Links to everything on the Monkey Dance website: https://www.monkeydancepod.com/episodes/episode-26

And how can complexity science help us understand them? We sit down with network scientist Gabriela Juncosa to discuss how political discourse unfolds in online spaces and whether toxic interactions shut conversations down or keep them going. We chat about the structure of online discussions, how social media algorithms influence engagement, and whether the way we talk online differs from in-person interactions. This takes us to the role of network structures in polarization, the ways AI might intervene in online discourse, and whether we can design digital spaces that foster both engagement and constructive dialogue. Joining us as a cohost is philosopher Phyllis Pearson (our guest from Episode 24).   Guest: Gabriela Juncosa Co-host: Phyllis Pearson   Show notes on the Monkey Dance website

We use the terms open mindedness and gaslighting a lot, but do we really understand what they mean? We sit down with Phyllis Pearson to discuss what it means to engage honestly with information and with others. We chat about curiosity and agency, empathy and perspective taking, and the blurry line between being open to the beliefs of others versus maintaining skepticism and asking for justification. This takes us to what honest dialogue looks like, whether gaslighting is always malicious, and what it means to have epistemic agency and to ascribe that agency to others.   Guest: Phyllis Pearson Co-host: Juliette Vazard (our guest on Episode 20)   As always, show notes on the Monkey Dance website.

What is the function of emotional displays? We sit down with Thomas Ganzetti and discuss the role emotions serve in social contexts and how we use the displays of others to gather information about our realities. We chat about the evolutionary trajectory of emotional displays, how they help us navigate our environments, and what we learn about ourselves and those around us as we observe each other (whether we intend to or not).   Guest: Thomas Ganzetti Co-Host: Xueyi Yao (to hear more from Xueyi, check out Episode 18!)   Show notes on the monkey dance website!   Also, we've now been going for a full year! Thank you to everyone who has been listening and reaching out.

How does the brain process music and how has the perception of music changed over time? We sit down with cognitive neuroscientist Anja-Xiaoxing Cui to chat about how we relate to music, music's role in social interactions, and how music might be used as a tool for regulating emotions. We cover theories of the emergence of music in human history, the relationship between music and other art forms, and whether reading sheet music is at all similar to hearing it. My co-host this episode is Arianna Curioni (who was also our guest on Episode 13).   Show notes on the monkey dance website!

What makes systemic inequality such a hard problem to tackle? We sit down with cognitive anthropologist Angarika Deb and cognitive psychologist Ákos Szegőfi and chat about their research on different aspects of the problem. We chat about the cognitive mechanisms involved in perpetuating systemic inequality both on the part of those benefiting from such systems and those who are marginalized by them. We also discuss the importance of narratives and access to information when it comes to both upholding and justifying inequality as well as challenging and dismantling it.   Show notes on the Monkey Dance website

What are emotions and how do they impact cognition? We sit down with philosopher Juliette Vazard to talk about what we can learn from our emotions, the relationship between emotions and beliefs, and how emotions can shape our behavior. We cover everything from learning and curiosity, to the epistemic value of emotional states, to their impact on how we relate to the world. Joining me as a co-host is philosopher Maria Fedorova, our guest on Episode 17.   As always, you can check out the show notes on the website   You an also watch the episode on youtube

Does everybody experience memory in the same way? We sit down with Andreas Arslan to chat about what we spontaneously imagine when we read or actively remember, and how everything from inferring causal relationships to the salience of symbols can impact recall. We also talk about how the structure of experience impacts and possibly even determines what and how we remember.   Show notes on the website Or watch on youtube

How do we use symbols to construct and reconstruct our internal realities? We sit down with two new cohosts of The Monkey Dance, Mariem Diané and Xueyi Yao, to talk about the relationship between language and memory and the importance of symbols in abstract thought. We cover a lot of ground, going from temporal perception and learning to social dynamics and the mitigation of uncertainty from early childhood to adulthood.   Full show notes here: https://www.monkeydancepod.com/episodes/episode-18

Why do we have imagination? We sit down with philosopher Maria Fedorova to chat about what imagination is, ways to describe imagination as a process and a capacity, and whether it differs from perception and hallucination (if at all). We also discuss how imagination helps us navigate our realities, its relationship to our beliefs, and its role in empathy and understanding the perspectives of others.

How can we balance knowledge transfer and democratic empowerment? We sit down with Kristina Vasić and Ákos Szegőfi in a wide ranging discussion about the importance of access to information in a democracy, the need for institutions for knowledge transfer, and how decentralization can help deconstruct entrenched power structures. The conversation spans types of dialogue, the usefulness of rhetoric, whether any argument can be free of bias, and a bunch of other related topics on power, information, and governance.

What is the function of nostalgia? We sit down with Manu Sharma and talk about what makes a memory, what functions thinking about the past serves, and the impact of broader societal narratives on our senses of self. We discuss the construction of personal histories, their relationships to cultural histories, and also how historical narratives can be constructed by political movements to embolden and dehumanize groups of people.

How does the engineering of concepts impact how we think about them? We sit down with Bojin Zhu to discuss what makes a concept, how concepts change over time, and what it means to build a methodology for understanding conceptual change. We chat about the intersection of the value and meaning of concepts with their pragmatic and societal implications. Our conversations spans concepts like liberty (whether it's a useful term), free will (what to make of it), truth (whether it exists), and pain (and how to understand our experience of it).

How is it that human beings achieve collaboration? We sit down with Arianna Curioni and chat about the cognitive science of joint action in its many forms. We talk about human robot interactions, how moving a couch is not the same as boxing, and the difference between a hammer, a neural implant, and a teammate. We also chat a bit about collaboration in society at large and the implications for work on policy.   Show notes on the website   Or you can also watch on youtube

What differentiates lying from other examples of communicative intent? We sit down with Akos Szegofi and talk about misinformation, institutional trust, and the cognitive mechanisms underlying information processing. We chat about skepticism, how the media has changed over time, and why the intent to deceive is as old as communication itself.   Show notes on the Monkey Dance website   You can also watch the podcast on Youtube

Does Democracy have intrinsic value or is it only as good as what it helps us achieve? We sit down with Kristina Vasic and chat about what Democracy is, whether it is for individual autonomy or collective autonomy, and the individual's place in systems of power. We chat about disenfranchisement, inequality, and what kinds of political structures are best suited to challenge the status quo.   Show notes on the Monkey Dance website!

How can we build better tools to identify and predict large scale corruption? We sit with Irene Tello Arista and chat about everything from what corruption is to the systemic pressures that bring it about, and discuss how grand corruption and petty corruption are different not only in scale but in methods. We cover a bit of Irene's background in Mexico starting an NGO to uncover corruption networks, human behavior more generally, and how corruption looks different in different places.   Full show notes on the website

Should we consider art beyond its utility? We sit down with Emily Kay Williamson to chat about what aesthetics can tell us about art's role in society and its impact on cognition. We talk about whether there is a difference between art and everyday objects, whether art has any boundaries, what there is to learn from art, and where things like journalism fall in discussions about art.   Full show notes here

How we as a species define ourselves and what we do? We sit down with Aleksandra Knežević and chat about the work to integrate different fields in science and whether anybody is making a genuine attempt to do so. This takes us to questions of what science is and what it does, and how feminist thinkers have helped to improve science as an institution. We also talk about definitions of human nature, what evolutionary psychology can and can't give us, and whether essentialism has anything to offer.   Full show notes

How do cultures change over time? We look at the framework of cultural evolution, picking apart some of its aspects and trying to build a framework we can both agree on. We look at how you can take a systems level approach of looking at culture, which is looking at the mechanisms of culture itself, or a component level approach, which looks at individual belief dynamics.   Full show notes here

Who is responsible for the actions of machines? Questions around who is responsible for the behavior of generative statistical algorithms, like large language models, have direct implications for our daily lives. Particularly as they become increasingly "intelligent". We chat with Pelin Kasar about the current state of philosophical debates around how to approach the ethical considerations of machines that seem to think.   Check out the show notes

What can evolutionary anthropology teach us about ourselves? We sit down with Nikhil Chaudhary and chat about everything from the formation of the self to societal pressures. We cover cooperation and collaboration, hunter-gatherer societies, how to think about thinking, managing uncertainty, cultural narratives, and everything in between.   Show notes on the website!

What does it mean for a situation to be fair and how does this relate to notions of equality, equity, and justice? We sit down with Angarika Deb, a cognitive anthropologist, to chat about what fairness means and how to think about it. This takes us to conversations about political movements, the communication of information, social justice, and the fundamentally relative nature of fairness.   Show notes on TMD site!

What makes us who we are? We discuss definitions of identity, how it helps us understand the phenomenon of selfhood, and what it means for us as we navigate our social environments.   Show notes at: https://www.monkeydancepod.com/episodes/episode-3

We talk about power. What it is, its different forms, and all of the related tangents: from beliefs, to social dynamics, to one's conception of themselves.   Full show notes at: https://www.monkeydancepod.com/episodes/episode-2

There is so much information that we navigate on a daily basis, from our social circles to our media spheres, how do we process it? We chat about how humans manage to navigate it all, how the information space is has its own momentum, and even step back to talk about what information is more broadly. That takes us from media ownership and politics, to philosophy, epistemology, and the purpose of science.   Full show notes at: https://www.monkeydancepod.com/episodes/episode-1