The Product Design for Learning Podcast

Greg speaks with Kenny Temowo about leadership development, organizational culture, and the impact of AI on the future of work. They explore Netflix's innovative culture, traditional vs. modern leadership programs, and the evolving role of AI in leadership and organizational change.

In this episode, Greg Arthur hosts a lively discussion with Sarah Wood and Paul Morgan on the nuances of measuring ROI in L&D. They explore why traditional metrics often fall short and how organisations can better understand the real impact of their learning initiatives.Key TopicsDifferentiating between learning impact and financial ROIThe importance of measuring behaviour change, not just activity completionThe role of organisational culture in shaping learning outcomesPractical approaches to quantifying value beyond financial metricsThe myth of quick ROI from isolated learning interventionsHow to foster honest conversations about measurement challengesThe danger of over-complicating simple problems in L&DThe importance of community sharing real, transparent resultsStrategies for starting conversations that uncover true organisational needsBuilding pragmatic, evidence-based learning strategies aligned with business outcomesTimestamps(00:00) - Introduction to the focus on ROI in learning(02:39) - The challenge of measuring ROI in learning activities(04:23) - How ROI in learning is tied to business impact(08:00) - Beyond financial metrics: understanding emotional and cultural value(12:15) - Rethinking onboarding for measurable impact(16:16) - The influence of organisational culture on learning outcomes(23:10) - Using simple, targeted data to measure error reduction(28:00) - The significance of relevance in learning content(33:10) - Practicing pragmatic measurement approaches(39:20) - The importance of partnering with business teams for results(45:17) - The need for community transparency in success and failure(55:46) - Honest conversations about the real impact of learning initiatives(60:09) - Practical tips for starting measurement conversationsAdditional NotesEmphasise simple, practical measurement methods over complex data modelsCultivate honest dialogues with stakeholders about what can and cannot be measuredFocus on impact areas like engagement, behavior, and culture as well as financial outcomesRecognize the importance of community sharing of successes and lessons learnedBe pragmatic: start conversations, ask “what if we did nothing,” and adjust strategies accordinglyThis episode challenges traditional notions of ROI and encourages learning professionals to adopt more flexible, honest, and impactful measurement practices. Let’s stop over-complicating and start focusing on what truly moves the needle.

SummaryIn this episode, Greg Arthur and Stephen Egri delve into the complexities of learning strategies within organizations. They discuss the importance of understanding what a learning strategy entails, the various components that make up an effective strategy, and the role of technology, particularly AI, in shaping the future of learning. The conversation highlights the challenges organizations face in implementing these strategies and emphasizes the need for stakeholder engagement and data-driven decision-making. As they explore trends in learning strategy development, they conclude with insights on how learning functions can evolve to better serve their organizations.TakeawaysLearning strategy is often seen as a complex and evolving field.There is no one-size-fits-all approach to learning strategies.Effective learning strategies should be in service of organizational goals.Technology, especially AI, plays a crucial role in modern learning strategies.Stakeholder engagement is essential for successful learning strategy implementation.Learning functions should operate more like profit centers.Data-driven decision-making is vital for effective learning strategies.Testing and iteration are important in developing learning strategies.The future of learning will involve orchestration of various elements.Understanding employee needs is key to developing effective learning strategies.TitlesNavigating the Complexities of Learning StrategyThe Future of Learning: AI and Strategy sound bites"Learning strategy is gigantic.""AI can show up in terms of skills mapping.""The future of learning is orchestration."Chapters00:00 Introduction and Podcast Setup00:12 Understanding Learning Strategy03:00 The Complexity of Learning Strategies05:36 Common Features of Learning Strategies08:34 The Role of Technology in Learning11:14 The Importance of Stakeholder Engagement14:14 The Future of Learning Strategies21:13 Understanding Learning Strategies24:38 The Importance of Employee Feedback27:14 Testing and Experimentation in Learning Strategies30:39 The Role of Learning Functions in Organizations35:05 AI's Impact on Learning Strategies42:53 Future Trends in Learning EcosystemsKeywordslearning strategy, organizational development, AI in learning, talent development, learning ecosystems, employee engagement, training effectiveness, learning technology, workforce development, educational frameworks

SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design for Learning podcast, hosts Greg Arthur, Ashley Hinchcliffe, and Caleb discuss the evolving landscape of Learning and Development (L&D). They explore the challenges faced by internal L&D teams, the importance of external support, and the need for a shift in how L&D is perceived within organizations. The conversation emphasizes the necessity for L&D to align with business objectives, embrace change, and focus on delivering tailored learning experiences that add real value. The role of technology and the future of learning are also key themes, highlighting the importance of adapting to new methods and tools to enhance learning outcomes.TakeawaysL&D is facing an identity crisis and needs to adapt.External agencies can provide valuable insights and challenge internal teams.There is a need for L&D to align with business objectives.Quality over quantity is essential in learning content.The perception of L&D as a cost center must change.Engagement and value perception are critical for L&D success.Tailored learning experiences are more effective than generic content.Technology can enhance learning but must be used wisely.L&D should focus on measurable outcomes and business impact.Collaboration between internal teams and external agencies is vital for success.TitlesReimagining Learning and DevelopmentThe Future of L&D: Challenges and Opportunitiessound bites"L&D is dying or has an identity crisis.""We're at the beginning of a rebirth.""We need to challenge the status quo."Chapters00:00 Introduction and Guest Introductions02:29 The Importance of External Perspectives in L&D05:12 Challenges Facing L&D: Identity Crisis or Rebirth?08:09 The Role of External Agencies in L&D10:55 Navigating Organizational Dynamics and Value Perception13:53 Reframing L&D's Value Proposition16:40 The Future of L&D: Confidence and Investment22:57 The Evolving Role of Learning and Development24:34 Aligning Learning with Business Strategy27:09 Rethinking Content Creation in L&D30:23 The Challenge of Content Overload33:01 The Future of Learning: Personalization and AI40:45 Proactive vs Reactive Learning Strategies43:46 Collaboration Between Agencies and Internal TeamsKeywordsL&D, learning and development, external agencies, internal teams, business strategy, training, education, corporate learning, engagement, value perception

SummaryIn this engaging conversation, Greg Arthur and Toby discuss the current state of Learning and Development (L&D) models, the challenges posed by outdated frameworks, and the impact of ego on the industry. They explore the necessity for flexibility in learning models, the role of AI in education, and the importance of self-awareness for personal growth. The dialogue emphasizes the need for a shift in mindset within L&D, advocating for a focus on individual development rather than rigid adherence to traditional models. The conversation concludes with reflections on the future of L&D and the potential for new approaches to emerge.TakeawaysL&D is facing a crisis with outdated models.Ego plays a significant role in the adherence to traditional models.Self-awareness is crucial for personal and professional growth.AI is transforming the landscape of L&D.Flexibility in learning models is essential for modern education.The focus should shift from organizational needs to individual development.Challenging existing models can lead to better outcomes.The importance of questioning the effectiveness of current practices.Learning styles should not be dismissed but adapted to individual preferences.The future of L&D requires innovative thinking and adaptability.TitlesRevolutionizing Learning and DevelopmentThe Ego Trap in L&DSound bites"Models need to be flexible.""Self-awareness is a skill.""The Royal Rumble of ROI."Chapters00:00 Introduction and Context Setting02:14 The State of Learning and Development Models05:12 Challenging Outdated Models08:12 The Role of Ego in Learning and Development10:53 The Impact of AI on Learning and Development13:43 Navigating Change in Learning and Development16:34 The Future of Learning and Development24:55 The Impact of AI on Learning and Development27:56 The Future of L&D in the Age of AI33:36 The Need for a Shift in Mindset39:11 Developing Self-Awareness in Learning43:35 Integrating AI with Human Insight45:49 Questioning Learning Models48:47 The Debate on Learning Styles51:49 The Role of Learning Design55:37 Measuring ROI in Learning59:23 The Complexity of Development01:05:21 The Importance of DiscourseKeywordsLearning and Development, L&D Models, Ego in Learning, AI in Education, Self-Awareness, Flexibility in Learning, Future of Learning, Personal Growth, ROI in Learning, Modern Learning Strategies

In this conversation, Greg Arthur and Nick Shackleton Jones explore the critical distinctions between education and learning, emphasizing the need for experience design in learning environments. They discuss the influence of social media on learning and development, the challenges posed by traditional learning models, and the importance of context in creating effective learning experiences. The conversation highlights the disconnect between theory and practice in learning, the rituals that often hinder progress, and the necessity for organizations to embrace real learning experiences over superficial metrics. In this conversation, Greg Arthur and Nick explore the evolving landscape of Learning and Development (L&D), discussing the moral dilemmas faced by professionals in the field, the impact of AI on education, and the importance of performance support and experience design. They delve into the challenges of leadership, the disillusionment many feel within the industry, and the need for a shift towards more meaningful learning experiences. The discussion highlights the reactive nature of the industry, the role of compliance, and the future of learning management systems, ultimately emphasizing the necessity of swimming against the tide to create impactful learning environments.TitlesRethinking Education and LearningThe Influence of Social Media on LearningSound bites"Why don't people change?""It's a moral dilemma in L&D.""Do I want to step out of line?"Chapters00:00 Education vs. Learning: A Fundamental Distinction05:47 Conformity and Resistance to Change in Learning11:19 Experience Design: Lessons from Other Industries17:13 Transformative Experiences: The Power of Small Interactions27:57 The Disconnect in Job Advertisements32:47 Adapting 5DI for Real-World Applications39:38 The Metrics of Success in Learning50:06 The Birth of Learning Design55:33 Revolutionizing Training for New Consultants01:00:37 The Role of Learning Management Systems (LMS) and Experience Platforms (LXP)01:06:49 The Evolution of Wearable Technology and User Experience01:16:13 Swimming Against the Tide: The Role of Learning in GrowthKeywordseducation, learning, experience design, social media, learning development, instructional design, performance support, data-driven learning, organizational change, engagement, Learning and Development, AI in Education, Performance Support, Experience Design, Leadership, Compliance, Future of Learning, Technology in Learning, Social Impact of AI, Career Choices in L&DTakeawaysEducation and learning are fundamentally different concepts.Social media influences the way learning and development discussions occur.Traditional learning models often fail to engage learners effectively.Experience design is crucial for creating impactful learning experiences.Contextual understanding is essential for effective learning.Small details in experience design can lead to significant learning outcomes.There is often a disconnect between learning theory and practical application.Organizations may adopt new language without changing underlying practices.Real learning experiences are often neglected in favor of traditional methods.Data-driven approaches in learning can sometimes lead to superficial metrics. It's a moral dilemma in L&D to choose between compliance and making a difference.Career choices in L&D often lead to a personal decision about impact.There's a dichotomy in available roles in the learning industry.AI is set to hollow out traditional education roles.Performance support is a key area where human input is still needed.Leadership skills are crucial for business performance.Disillusionment is common among L&D professionals today.AI's role in learning conferences often lacks real impact.The future of learning design is evolving but still needs clarity.An agency model could revolutionize how learning is delivered.

SummaryThe conversation explores the significant changes occurring in the industry, focusing on the relevance of skills, the importance of positioning, and the need for professionals to adapt to stay competitive. It highlights the varying responses individuals have to these changes, from actively engaging to feeling left behind.TakeawaysOur industry is undergoing significant transformation.The relevance of existing skills is in question.Many professionals feel unprepared for these changes.Positioning in the market is often neglected.Adapting to new skills is essential for success.There is a disparity in how individuals respond to change.Some are actively pursuing new opportunities, while others are passive.Professional development must be prioritized.Understanding market dynamics is crucial for career growth.Engagement with industry changes is necessary for relevance.TitlesNavigating the Shifting Landscape of Our IndustryThe Relevance of Skills in a Changing WorldSound bites"Chasing the bus is not enough anymore""We need to adapt to stay relevant""Understanding market perception is key"Chapters00:00 Introduction to the Conversation00:27 The State of Learning and Development (L&D)Keywordsindustry change, skills relevance, market positioning, professional development, career adaptation

In this conversation, Adam Harwood discusses the integration of AI in talent development and the importance of knowledge sharing within organizations. He emphasizes the need for curiosity and experimentation with AI tools, sharing personal experiences from workshops and internal sessions. The dialogue explores user stories, real-world applications, and the future of AI in HR, highlighting the significance of creating a culture that encourages exploration and collaboration.TakeawaysAI is a tool that can enhance talent development.Knowledge sharing is crucial for effective AI integration.Curiosity and experimentation are key to leveraging AI.User stories help illustrate practical applications of AI.Creating a culture of experimentation fosters innovation.It's important to start with real problems when using AI.Don't hesitate to share failures; they can be learning opportunities.Mixing different AI tools can optimize processes.Engaging in dialogue about AI can spark new ideas.The future of work will require continuous learning and adaptation.TitlesUnlocking AI's Potential in Talent DevelopmentNavigating the AI Landscape in the WorkplaceSound bites"You can't spell AI without HR.""AI can help solve real problems.""Don't rely on one tool, mix it up."Chapters00:00 Introduction to Adam Harwood and Genomics02:52 Exploring AI in Talent Development08:42 Understanding AI Fundamentals and Learning14:26 Knowledge Sharing and Internal Sessions20:19 User Stories and Practical Applications of AI22:19 Exploring AI Tools: A Hands-On Approach24:06 Real-World Applications of AI in Engineering26:01 Identifying Real Problems for AI Solutions27:28 The Impact of AI on HR Processes29:11 User Stories: Individual Experiences with AI31:36 Creating a Culture of Sharing and Experimentation34:06 Navigating Permission and Social Acceptance of AI38:09 Encouraging Experimentation and Curiosity with AI41:23 Identifying Problems to Apply AI Solutions42:35 Fostering Team Collaboration and Sharing Ideas44:59 Embracing Experimentation and Learning from Failure47:53 The Simplicity of AI Interfaces and Accessibility49:53 Building an AI Tech Stack and Continuous Learning52:46 Exploring AI Use Cases and Industry Trends55:11 The Future of Work and AI's Impact on JobsKeywordsAI, Talent Development, Knowledge Sharing, User Stories, Workplace Innovation, Learning and Development, AI Tools, Human-Centered Design, Future of Work, Experimentation

The Product Design for Learning Podcast - sponsored by Two Circles Design Studio. Learning Network discount code for CONNECT, is: twocircles10 TakeawaysThe Learning Network fosters a sense of belonging among its members.Community is built on trust and openness, allowing for safe discussions.Members range from newcomers to seasoned professionals, creating a diverse environment.The network provides opportunities for mentorship and professional growth.Success is measured qualitatively through member feedback and engagement.AI is a hot topic among members, with mixed feelings about its impact.The network evolves naturally with each new board, reflecting member needs.Events like Tea and Talk encourage informal networking and sharing.The Connect event focuses on the intersection of technology and humanity.The human element remains crucial in the face of technological advancements.SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design for Learning podcast, Greg Arthur engages with members of the Learning Network to explore the significance of community in learning and development. The discussion highlights the importance of belonging, the impact of the network on its members, and the transition from being a member to a board member. The conversation also delves into how success is measured within the network, current trends such as AI, and the future of the Learning Network, culminating in an overview of the upcoming Connect event.Timestamp00:00:01TitlesBuilding Community in Learning and DevelopmentThe Power of Belonging in Professional NetworksSound bites"The Learning Network fosters a sense of belonging.""Community is built on trust and openness.""AI is a hot topic among members."Chapters00:00 Introduction to the Learning Network02:55 Understanding Community in Learning and Development05:44 Creating a Sense of Belonging08:25 Impact of the Learning Network11:34 Personal Growth and Opportunities14:19 Measuring Success in the Learning Network17:04 Current Trends and Concerns in L&D19:43 Innovation and Evolution in the Learning Network21:22 Innovation Through Community Engagement25:31 Exploring Learning Communities27:30 The Future of Learning Networks31:43 Connect Event Insights

Keywordsskills frameworks, performance improvement, learning and development, EdTech, agile learning, AI in education, stakeholder engagement, data analytics, organizational culture, continuous improvementSummaryIn this conversation, Greg Arthur and Phil Lord-David delve into the complexities of skills frameworks within the learning and development (L&D) sector. They discuss the importance of starting with business outcomes rather than merely mapping skills to roles, the pitfalls of traditional frameworks, and the need for agility and iteration in skills development. Phil emphasizes the significance of understanding the real problems within organizations and the role of technology, particularly AI, in enhancing skills frameworks. The discussion also touches on the cultural context of skills, the separation of skills from performance, and practical steps for building effective skills frameworks.TakeawaysStarting with the right questions is crucial for success.Focus on business outcomes rather than just skills mapping.Agility and iteration are key in skills development.Understand the real problems employees face.Technology should enable insight, not just track completions.Skills frameworks should evolve over time.Engage with senior leadership to align on goals.AI can help make skills development more manageable.Don't let perfection hinder progress.Start small and build momentum.TitlesRethinking Skills FrameworksThe Agility of Learning and DevelopmentSound bites"Start where it hurts.""Tech is to enable insight.""Don't go into analysis paralysis."Chapters00:00 Introduction to Skills Frameworks02:38 The Right Questions for Skills Frameworks05:32 Rethinking Frameworks: Beyond Monstrous Spreadsheets08:37 The Cost of Delay in Skills Development11:13 Identifying Key Skills: Where to Start14:13 The Relationship Between Skills and Performance16:58 Cultural Issues vs. Skills Issues20:02 The Role of Technology in Skills Development22:49 Iterative Approaches to Skills Frameworks25:54 Engaging Stakeholders in Skills Development28:36 Conclusion: Building a Dynamic Skills Framework31:16 Rethinking Skill Gaps and Business Outcomes33:35 The Role of AI in Skills Frameworks37:11 Essential Skills for Building a Skills Framework39:48 Navigating Resistance and Building Resilience43:44 Technology's Role in Learning and Development49:21 The Impact of AI on Skills Frameworks54:45 Actionable Advice for Implementing Skills Frameworks

Keywordsfuture of learning, learning and development, corporate learning, accessibility, inclusivity, data-driven learning, AI in education, generational perspectives, employee experience, decentralized learningSummaryIn this episode, Greg Arthur hosts a discussion with Jess, Toby, and David about the future of learning and development. They explore the uncertainty surrounding the future of learning, the importance of accessibility and inclusivity, and the need for corporate learning to evolve. The conversation delves into generational perspectives on learning, the significance of data-driven decision-making, and the impact of AI on learning and development. The speakers emphasize the importance of understanding the problems that learning aims to solve and the need for a decentralized approach to learning, where people help people. They conclude with a call to action for learning professionals to embrace change and leverage data effectively.TakeawaysThe future of learning is uncertain and difficult to predict.Learning will always exist, but the structure of L&D may change.Accessibility and inclusivity in learning are crucial for the future.Self-directed learning has proven to be powerful and effective.Corporate learning needs to fundamentally change to meet modern demands.Bad learning experiences should not be tolerated in organizations.AI can serve as a powerful tool for data management in learning.Learning should happen in the flow of work, not as a separate activity.Data is essential for understanding the effectiveness of learning initiatives.A decentralized approach to learning can enhance employee engagement and effectiveness.TitlesThe Uncertain Future of LearningAccessibility in Learning: A Vision for the FutureSound bites"The future of learning is uncertain.""Self-directed learning is powerful.""Data is the missing link in L&D."Chapters00:00 The Future of Learning: An Introduction01:17 Diverse Perspectives on Learning's Future05:23 Self-Directed Learning and Corporate L&D09:33 The Challenge of Bad Learning Experiences12:10 Generational Perspectives on Learning15:57 Bridging the Gap: Technology and Learning19:06 The Role of Employee Experience in Learning26:00 Starting the Transformation in Learning26:48 Mapping HR to Customer Experience28:32 The Importance of Genuine Outcomes29:50 The Future of Learning and Development31:27 Generational Shifts in Learning Expectations34:34 The Role of AI in Learning and Development38:07 Redefining Learning in the Workplace40:43 The Impact of AI on Content Creation45:07 The Challenge of Change in L&D49:06 Decentralizing Learning Experiences50:55 Transforming Online Facilitation53:52 The Role of Technology in Learning56:44 Data-Driven Learning and Development58:38 The Future of Learning and Data Management01:01:19 Understanding Learning Outcomes and Business Impact01:05:40 The Importance of Employee Experience01:07:55 Measuring Employee and Employer Value01:13:37 The Path Forward for Learning and Development

Keywordslearning design, cognitive neuroscience, attention, focus, engagement, product design, learning revolution, digital detox, future of learning, organizational learningSummaryIn this episode, Greg Arthur interviews Lauren, the Learning Pirate, about the intersection of cognitive neuroscience and learning design. They discuss the outdated models in the learning industry, the importance of understanding how the brain works, and the need for a revolution in learning practices. Lauren emphasizes the significance of designing learning experiences that cater to individual differences and the role of attention and focus in effective learning. They also explore the impact of technology on learning, the necessity of digital detox, and the future of learning and development in organizations.TakeawaysThe brain is the primary client in learning design.Outdated models in the learning industry hinder progress.Understanding cognitive neuroscience can enhance learning design.Attention and focus are critical for effective learning.Designing for individual differences is essential in learning.Digital detox can improve focus and learning outcomes.Learning is a fundamental human process that needs attention.The future of learning requires a shift in understanding human behavior.Engagement metrics often do not reflect true learning outcomes.A collaborative approach is necessary for effective learning design.TitlesRevolutionizing Learning DesignThe Science Behind LearningSound bites"Learning is hard.""We are in feedback loops of shiny tools.""Can we learn how to learn better?"Chapters00:00 Introduction to Learning Design03:03 The Role of Cognitive Neuroscience in Learning05:59 Bridging the Gap: Translating Science into Practice09:06 Designing for Individual Differences in Learning12:00 Attention and Focus in Learning Design15:03 Evaluating E-Learning Experiences18:02 The Importance of Practical Application in Learning20:57 Reactions to New Learning Approaches24:08 The Need for a Learning Revolution30:41 Understanding Learning and ROI in Organizations33:47 The Impact of Technology on Learning Behavior36:18 Managing Attention in a Distracted World41:03 The Journey of Learning and Personal Growth44:41 Challenges in Learning and Development50:37 Starting Points for Effective Learning54:47 The Future of Learning and Development

KeywordsAI, production, technology, human skills, learning design, tools, job security, generative AI, digital intelligence, critical thinking, AI, collaboration, creativity, future of work, human skills, technology, problem-solving, innovation, prompt engineering, decision-makingSummaryIn this conversation, Greg Arthur and Ross Stevenson explore the role of AI in production, emphasizing the importance of human skills and critical thinking in leveraging AI tools effectively. They discuss misconceptions about AI's impact on jobs, the necessity of a human-centric approach, and the challenges of navigating the growing landscape of AI tools. The conversation highlights the need for a balanced perspective on AI, recognizing it as a tool that should complement human capabilities rather than replace them. In this conversation, Ross and Greg explore the evolving role of AI in problem-solving and creativity, emphasizing the importance of human collaboration and critical thinking. They discuss how AI can serve as a tool to enhance decision-making and innovation, while also cautioning against over-reliance on technology. The dialogue highlights the need for individuals to maintain their skills and adapt to the changing landscape of work, as well as the potential future implications of AI on society.TakeawaysAI is not a new concept; it's an evolution of existing technology.Generative AI allows more people to become 'amateur builders'.Critical thinking should not be outsourced to AI tools.Human skills are essential for effectively using AI.Overreliance on AI can lead to de-skilling.AI tools should be seen as extensions of human capabilities.Not all tasks require AI; traditional tools can be effective.The hype around AI can lead to inflated expectations.Trial and error is crucial in implementing AI solutions.A human-first approach is necessary for successful AI integration. AI should be viewed as a collaborative partner, not a replacement.Human thinking is essential in guiding AI's capabilities.Experimenting with AI can lead to innovative solutions.Critical thinking and creativity remain vital in the age of AI.Prototyping should focus on feedback rather than perfection.AI tools can enhance decision-making but should not replace human judgment.Understanding the context is crucial for effective AI use.Investing in human skills is essential for future job security.Prompt engineering is about clear communication with AI tools.The future of work will require a balance between human skills and AI capabilities.TitlesAI in Production: A New EraThe Human Element in AI UtilizationSound bites"It's not just AI did it all.""You can innovate bad practices.""Common sense will prevail."Chapters00:00 Introduction to AI in Production03:27 The Importance of AI in Production06:36 Misconceptions About AI and Job Security11:12 The Role of Human Skills in AI Utilization16:08 Navigating the AI Landscape22:00 The Future of AI in Business23:18 The Early Days of AI and Its Context24:22 Understanding AI's Role in Project Management27:29 Human-Centric Approach to AI Utilization30:22 The Binary Nature of AI and Its Limitations32:03 Trial and Error in AI Integration34:50 AI as a Collaborative Partner39:39 The Future of AI in Design and Content Creation43:48 The Role of AI in Creative Industries46:07 Mindset and Human Skills in the Age of AI50:04 Prompt Engineering and Effective AI Interaction56:09 The Future of AI and Human Collaboration

KeywordsLearning and Development, Startups, HR, Experiential Learning, Stakeholder Management, Problem Solving, Employee Training, Corporate Learning, Self-Awareness, Learning CultureSummaryIn this episode, Greg Arthur and Nick Bilotta discuss the unique challenges and opportunities of Learning and Development (L&D) in startup environments. They explore the importance of experiential learning, the role of HR in startups, and how to effectively manage stakeholders. The conversation emphasizes the need for L&D professionals to view themselves as problem solvers and to meet learners where they are. They also touch on the significance of intention and reflection in the learning process, and the value of practical tools like checklists and templates. The episode concludes with advice for those working in startups and the evolving nature of L&D.TakeawaysStartups require a unique approach to Learning and Development.Experiential learning is crucial in fast-paced environments.L&D professionals should view themselves as problem solvers.Intent and reflection are key components of effective learning.Checklists and templates can be more valuable than elaborate training programs.Understanding the business needs is essential for L&D success.Stakeholder management is critical in learning initiatives.Learning should be integrated into the daily workflow.The culture of a startup can foster open communication and collaboration.Failure is a valuable teacher in the startup landscape.TitlesNavigating Learning and Development in StartupsThe Startup Survival Guide for L&DSound bites"Learning is about survival in startups.""Managers are not a different species.""Failure is the best teacher."Chapters00:00 Introduction to Learning and Development in Startups03:01 The Unique Challenges of Startups05:57 Survival Mode: The Startup Mentality09:00 When to Introduce Learning and Development11:56 The Evolution of HR and Learning14:45 Experiential Learning in Startups17:51 Reframing Learning Requests20:49 Stakeholder Management in Learning and Development28:21 Navigating Stakeholder Dynamics29:59 The Importance of Audience-Centric Design31:58 The Value of Practical Tools in Learning35:57 Fostering Self-Awareness and Growth38:51 Rethinking Learning and Development Roles41:57 The Challenge of Adult Learning45:42 Intentional Learning and Reflection48:55 Understanding Business Needs in Learning51:53 Advice for Startups in Learning and Development

pdfl - ep16 - show notesThe Future of L&D Conferences: Breaking the Mould with Anamaria Dorgo and Dinye HernandaEpisode SummaryIn Episode 16 of Product Design for Learning, host Greg Arthur is joined by Anamaria Dorgo, Learning and Community Consultant at Handle with Brain, and Dinye Hernanda, Founder and Learning Designer at haus of ilmu. Together, they explore the current state of learning and development (L&D) conferences, discussing what works, what doesn’t, and how a shift towards more participatory, community-led formats could transform the way L&D professionals gather, collaborate, and grow. From personal experiences to organising their own “nonference”, this is a candid, insightful conversation about designing conferences that actually enable learning.Guest Profile🎙 Anamaria DorgoRole: Learning and Community Consultant at Handle with Brain Highlights:Creator of L&D Shakers, a global community of practiceSpecialises in learning experience design, social learning, and facilitationAdvocate for experimental formats and inclusive peer learning🎙 Dinye HernandaRole: Founder & Learning Designer at haus of ilmu Highlights:Extensive experience building L&D functions in startups and scale-upsFocuses on leadership development, inclusion, and climate-conscious learningAuthor of a widely discussed article critiquing conventional L&D conferencesKey Take-AwaysTraditional L&D conferences are often passive, overly scripted, and fail to reflect how professionals actually learn.A lack of diversity in voices, especially from practitioners, limits the relevance and impact of many events.Conferences need more participatory design, including workshops, discussions, and collaborative formats.The L&D Shakers Nonference serves as a successful example of flipping the script—centred on co-creation, experimentation, and community energy.The future of L&D events lies in designing for practice, not just performance—highlighting real stories, including failure, and welcoming all levels of experience.How Did You First Engage with L&D Conferences?Dinye Hernanda: Her first major L&D event was Online Educa Berlin, where she engaged as a speaker, attendee, and behind-the-scenes contributor. While she valued the exposure, she found the experience overly polished and lacking deeper learning impact.Anamaria Dorgo: Also attended OEB, describing it as large, impersonal, and not designed for solo attendees. Although it was energising to be among peers, she noticed a lack of deliberate structure to encourage meaningful networking or engagement.What’s the Current State of Learning Conferences?Anamaria: Described most conferences as content-heavy marathons with minimal design for participant interaction. Often overwhelming, with too little reflection space.Dinye: Argued that most L&D conferences contradict what L&D professionals themselves advocate: learning isn’t an event. Conferences should embody the principles we preach—yet most don’t.Where Are We Missing Opportunities?There’s a need for more voices from actual practitioners, not just polished presenters or academic experts.Events should allow room for failure stories, real case studies, and unfiltered experiences.Diverse formats—from fishbowls to world cafés—can enrich learning and build genuine community.It’s not just about organisers doing better; attendees also need to show up actively, ready to participate.Why Create the L&D Shakers Nonference?The Nonference emerged from a local L&D Shakers hub in Amsterdam—not from protest, but from curiosity. The community wanted a learning event that felt different, human, and co-created.Key Features:No traditional keynote hierarchyActive design based on experience design principlesCollaborative workshops, embodied activities, and creative exercises like a “Learning Museum”A deliberate departure from perfectionism and expert-led narrativesWhat Have You Learned Since the Nonference?Most attendees loved the fresh format, but some struggled with the lack of direct content delivery.This reflects an industry still anchored to traditional expectations—that learning equals listening.It affirmed the need for more layered, varied conference structures to serve diverse needs.What Would Your Ideal Conference Look Like?Dinye: Imagines a learning dojo—a space for continuous practice, shared effort, and collective improvement. Where “masters” and “students” are peers and everyone contributes to the experience.Anamaria: Points to the Next Learning Conference in the Netherlands as a promising model. With multiple learning tracks, creative spaces, and hands-on activities, it balances commercial needs with genuine participant experience.What’s the Future of Learning Conferences?10 Years From Now: Possibly little change unless disruption forces it.20 Years From Now: With new generations and technological acceleration, conferences may be radically different—cross-disciplinary, participatory, and focused on real-world challenges.L&D might not even be called L&D—perhaps a Human Enhancement Department, focused on adaptability and systems-level learning.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Welcome and Guest Introductions[01:30] – First Experiences with L&D Conferences[06:30] – Defining the Current State of L&D Events[10:40] – Where L&D Conferences Fall Short[16:00] – Opportunities for Innovation and Inclusion[28:00] – Birth of the L&D Shakers Nonference[40:50] – Reflections and Feedback Post-Event[47:30] – Blending Traditional and Emerging Models[58:00] – Future Visions for L&D Conferences[01:07:00] – Final Reflections and Where to ConnectAbout the PodcastProduct Design for Learning, hosted by Greg Arthur, explores how learning professionals can apply product design thinking to build more effective, engaging, and scalable learning experiences. Each episode blends voices from L&D, design, and strategy, spotlighting real-world challenges and practical solutions.

PDFL_EP15_SHOW NOTESHow MAAS Marketing Elevates Learning Products Through Marketing Integration | Episode 15Episode SummaryIn Episode 15 of the Product Design for Learning podcast, host Greg Arthur welcomes Ashley Hinchcliffe and Hannah Clark from MAAS Marketing. Together, they unpack why marketing is not just a final step, but a continuous thread in learning product design. The conversation dives deep into the integration of marketing and L&D, the importance of audience research, avoiding the “tick box” trap, and building real learner engagement. Whether you’re in L&D, marketing, or product development, this episode is packed with insights you can act on today.Guest ProfileAshley Hinchcliffe is the Managing Director of MAAS Marketing, passionate about transforming how organizations think about learning engagement and ROI.Hannah Clark is the Marketing Director at MAAS Marketing, with a decade of experience in learning and development, specializing in audience-focused, data-driven campaigns that drive learner action.Key Take-AwaysMarketing should be embedded throughout the learning design process—not just at release.Audience research is critical to aligning learning products with real business and learner needs.L&D must own its brand narrative and prove value through measurable outcomes.Effective internal marketing relies on multi-channel, repeated messaging—not a single “big bang.”You can’t “out-market” a poor learning product; product-market fit is foundational.L&D teams need the confidence and data to push back and align learning with strategy.Questions Asked & Summarized AnswersHow would you summarize the marketing phase in learning product design?Ashley and Hannah challenge the idea that marketing is just a phase. They explain that marketing should start from the beginning, integrated into audience research, product development, and delivery to avoid creating irrelevant or unused products.Why does audience research matter in learning?The guests emphasize that understanding employee needs, motivations, and pain points helps design learning products that truly resonate—and that marketers and designers need to work together from the start.What’s the danger of marketing a bad learning product?Ashley points out that no amount of marketing can save a bad product. Once learners have a poor experience, it’s harder to win them back. Product-market fit and relevance are essential before launching campaigns.Why do “big bang” launches often fail?Hannah explains that one-off events like town halls or learning weeks create short-term noise but don’t lead to long-term engagement. Effective campaigns require repetition, consistency, and multi-channel strategies.Where should L&D teams start with marketing?Ashley recommends developing audience personas and identifying the “what’s in it for me” for each group. Hannah adds that L&D professionals must practice empathy, avoid personal bias, and meet learners where they already spend time (e.g., Slack, Teams, intranet).How can L&D shift from being a cost center to a value driver?Ashley and Hannah stress that L&D must align with business strategy, measure ROI, and proactively communicate its impact. Leadership buy-in and data-driven decision-making are key to transforming L&D’s internal reputation.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Introduction and Guest Welcome[02:00] – Meet Ashley Hinchcliffe and Hannah Clark[03:40] – Why Marketing is Not Just a Phase[06:30] – Understanding Audience Needs[10:00] – The ROI Crisis in L&D[17:00] – Where to Start: Building Personas and Messaging[25:00] – Why Big Bang Launches Fail[32:00] – Aligning Product and Marketing for Impact[44:00] – Leadership, Confidence, and Saying No[53:00] – Final Takeaways and Plugs (Including Their Podcast and World of Learning Sip & Learn)About the PodcastProduct Design for Learning is hosted by Greg Arthur and explores how learning products can be designed for maximum engagement, impact, and usability. Featuring top industry experts, the podcast delivers real-world advice, fresh perspectives, and actionable takeaways to help L&D professionals elevate their work.If you like, I can also draft SEO keywords, a meta description, or social media captions to promote this episode! Let me know. 🚀

Data-Driven Learning Design: Insights from GSK’s Global Head of L&DEpisode SummaryIn this episode of Product Design for Learning, host Greg Arthur is joined by Carlo José, Global Head of Leadership and Learning at GSK. Together, they unpack how data, performance consulting, and design thinking intersect to build impactful learning strategies at scale. From debunking mobile learning myths to discussing the power of personas and practical ways to measure impact, Carlo shares rich insights from his global experience at GSK and HSBC. Whether you're a solo practitioner or part of a large L&D team, this episode is packed with actionable advice for designing smarter, data-informed learning products.Guest ProfileCarlo José is the Global Head of Leadership and Learning at GSK, based in London. With over a decade in L&D and nearly two decades across operations and service delivery, Carlo brings a unique blend of data fluency, leadership development, and user-focused design thinking. Previously, he held senior roles at HSBC and has led high-impact leadership programmes across global enterprises. Carlo is passionate about making data practical, using it not just to inform decisions but to drive meaningful learning outcomes.Key Take-AwaysData is a thread, not just a phase – It should be embedded across the entire learning lifecycle, from scoping to impact measurement.Performance consulting starts with empathy – Ask better questions before jumping into data or solutions.Personas are a tool, not gospel – Use them for direction, not as hard rules, and always supplement with live insights.You don’t need to be a data scientist – But you should be data-literate enough to avoid being misled or overwhelmed.Leadership development needs time and real-world data – Sometimes the ROI is years down the line, and that's okay.Polls, pulse checks, and social listening can be just as powerful as formal analytics.Focus more on outcomes than vanity metrics like attendance or completion rates.Questions Asked During the EpisodeHow do you approach data in the learning design process?Carlo sees data as both a standalone phase and a continual thread throughout the learning lifecycle. From identifying problems to measuring impact, data informs everything.How has your background in operations shaped your L&D practice?Coming from an operations background, Carlo brought a performance mindset to L&D, focusing on measurable outcomes and process improvement.Is data still as hot a topic in L&D as it used to be?While AI now dominates conversations, data is still foundational. Carlo explains how sentiment analysis and structured/unstructured data are becoming easier to leverage.How do you balance qualitative vs quantitative data?Carlo advises categorising data into textual, numerical, and opinion-based insights, all of which have value at different stages of product development.How do you stop teams from being overwhelmed by data?Keep it scoped, work with data partners where available, and use user-friendly tools like ChatGPT and poll surveys for fast insights.Are personas still relevant in modern L&D design?Yes, but they’re just one tool. Carlo uses them when available and combines them with user feedback loops like experience networks and shop-floor visits (Gemba walks).How do you measure long-term impact and behaviour change?It’s not always instant. Carlo shares an example from HSBC where a CEO pipeline programme showed ROI years after delivery via LinkedIn alumni tracking.What are your thoughts on Level 1–4 evaluation models?Use Level 1 and 2 initially, then shift focus toward Level 3 (behaviour change) and 4 (business impact) for sustainable value.How can small teams do better with data?Start with free tools like ChatGPT, tap into WhatsApp or Slack communities, and run small polls for direction. It’s about curiosity, not perfection.Any practical advice for teams starting their data journey?Use canvases (like Roman Pichler’s product canvas), document what you don’t know, and follow the clues your data reveals. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Welcome & IntroductionGreg welcomes Carlo and frames the episode around data in L&D.[02:35] – Carlo’s Career JourneyFrom HSBC to GSK: how Carlo blends ops and L&D.[05:01] – Why Data Deserves a Bigger Role in LearningWhy it’s more than just a one-off step in the process.[07:53] – Storytelling, Surveys & Sentiment AnalysisData now includes unstructured insights and AI-powered processing.[11:41] – Performance Consulting & Asking the Right QuestionsWhere to start when someone says “we have a problem.”[14:29] – Using Personas & Real-World TestingWhy personas matter and when they don’t.[21:40] – Dealing with Data OverloadHow to avoid drowning in spreadsheets and conflicting opinions.[29:18] – Are Personas Divisive in Design Thinking?Why Carlo takes a balanced view on their role.[34:53] – Quick Data Tactics That WorkPolls, WhatsApp groups, and ChatGPT as everyday tools.[39:11] – How Far Back Should You Track Data?The ROI timeline for leadership and long-form learning.[46:09] – Measuring Behaviour Change & Learning ImpactHow programs can evolve from theory to real results.[53:41] – Justifying Learning’s ExistenceIf your team vanished, would anyone notice?[56:01] – Final Tips & Free ToolsCarlo’s practical advice for teams getting started with data.About the PodcastProduct Design for Learning is where strategy meets storytelling in the world of learning design. Hosted by Greg Arthur, the podcast dives into real conversations with industry leaders who are shaping how learning happens in the modern workplace. Each episode blends product thinking, user experience, and learning innovation to help you design smarter and scale faster.

Recruitment Realities in L&D: A Deep Dive with Andrew WelshEpisode SummaryIn this episode of Product Design for Learning, host Greg Arthur sits down with Andrew Welsh, Director of Digital Learning Solutions at Instinct, a specialist L&D recruitment agency. Together, they explore the evolving recruitment landscape within Learning & Development, covering topics such as market shifts, AI's role in hiring, and the growing demand for data-driven skills. Whether you're a candidate navigating a competitive market or an employer seeking to attract top talent, this conversation is packed with actionable insights and trends you need to know for 2025.Guest ProfileAndrew Welsh is a veteran in L&D recruitment, marking 14 years with Instinct, a Manchester-based, employee-owned agency specializing in digital learning and education-focused roles. His expertise spans interim and permanent hiring across the UK, with a growing footprint in the US and Europe. Known for his honest, people-first approach, Andrew brings a wealth of knowledge to this in-depth discussion on recruitment trends and challenges in L&D.Key Take-AwaysThe market has shifted from a talent-scarce boom in 2021–2022 to a more competitive candidate-heavy environment in 2024–2025.Permanent roles are down, with a significant increase in interim and contract-based hiring.AI skills and data literacy are rising in importance, but true implementation across L&D is still lagging.Remote roles increase competition, expanding applicant pools beyond local regions.Recruiter ghosting and inconsistent job titles remain industry pain points.Portfolios are essential for L&D designers and increasingly important for strategic roles.IR35 and gig economy regulations continue to influence hiring decisions.Questions Asked During the EpisodeWhat has 14 years in L&D recruitment taught you?Andrew shares how L&D has remained a personable, tight-knit sector with a community feel. He reflects on the post-lockdown hiring boom and the sudden market reversal in 2023 due to economic uncertainty.How do you handle inconsistent job titles and salary ranges in job ads?Andrew explains how recruiters dig deeper through vacancy consultations to reframe roles accurately and why salary transparency is crucial for both attraction and fairness.Where do you stand on tasks or case studies during recruitment?He distinguishes between reasonable tasks for permanent roles and the problematic nature of unpaid tasks for contractors, emphasizing value for time and fairness.Is it currently an employer's market?Yes—candidates must now work harder to stand out, as competition has increased and hiring processes have become more demanding.Why are recruiters ghosting more frequently?Andrew admits volume is a factor but stresses the importance of communication, especially post-interview, and outlines what Instinct does to avoid ghosting.What trends are emerging in the L&D recruitment market?A heavy shift toward contract roles (up to 84%) as organizations navigate headcount freezes and project-based needs. AI and data skills are becoming more requested, though adoption varies.How has political and economic uncertainty affected recruitment?While elections don't bring immediate certainty, post-budget clarity helps businesses plan hiring. Andrew notes reactions to economic policies play a bigger role than policies themselves.What role is AI playing in hiring and L&D?Mentions of AI tools in job specs are increasing, but widespread adoption is slow. Compliance-based eLearning may be automated first, while AI's long-term impact on roles is still unfolding.What skills are in demand for 2025?Data literacy is gaining ground, with many roles expecting basic data skills rather than dedicated data scientists. Portfolios for learning designers are now expected, not optional.What’s the ideal CV length and format?Keep it under five pages, with clear role context, platform names, and keyword matches. CVs should tell a compelling story and align with job requirements.Any advice for candidates and employers in 2025?Candidates should build strong portfolios and tailor CVs with market-relevant keywords. Employers should pay fair market rates and focus on long-term retention strategies to avoid hiring stopgaps.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Welcome and Guest IntroductionGreg introduces Andrew Welsh and frames the discussion on L&D recruitment.[02:42] – Biggest Takeaways from 14 Years in L&D RecruitmentAndrew reflects on market cycles and the current climate.[06:18] – The Job Title and Salary ChallengeHow inconsistent titles confuse candidates—and what recruiters can do.[08:00] – Case Studies and Tasks: Fair or Not?Where they belong in the process and the time-value consideration.[10:32] – Is It an Employer's Market Now?Why candidates must adapt to increased competition.[11:51] – The Rise of Ghosting in RecruitmentGreg raises concerns and Andrew outlines Instinct’s feedback policy.[14:11] – Market Trends: Past, Present, and FuturePermanent hiring is down; contract roles are surging.[17:44] – Political & Economic Impacts on HiringAndrew discusses the post-election and post-budget landscape.[21:34] – Has Hybrid Work Increased Role Competition?Remote flexibility brings more applicants, adding complexity.[23:07] – Is the Gig Economy Here to Stay?A look at IR35, legislation risks, and contractor demand.[28:41] – Are AI Skills Being Overhyped or Undervalued?Why AI appears in job specs but real-world use remains limited.[35:50] – What Skills Will Shape 2025?The rising importance of data competency in L&D.[39:23] – CV Tips: What Do Recruiters Actually Look For?Length, content, and structure tips for standing out.[41:01] – Final Advice for Candidates and EmployersPortfolios, salary benchmarking, and how to avoid short-term hiring traps.[43:07] – Where to Meet Instinct in PersonInstinct will be at the Learning Technologies Exhibition in April 2025.About the PodcastProduct Design for Learning is a podcast where design meets strategy in the world of workplace learning. Hosted by Greg Arthur, each episode explores how thoughtful design, technology, and recruitment intersect to shape better learning experiences in organizations. Whether you’re an L&D professional, hiring manager, or just curious about how learning gets built in the workplace, this show offers fresh insights and expert voices to help you stay ahead.

Mastering the "Understand" Phase in Product Design for Learning with Tom McDowallEpisode SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design for Learning podcast, host Greg Arthur sits down with Tom McDowall, Chair of The Learning Network, to dive deep into the "Understand" phase of the product design process. Tom explains why this phase is critical, sharing practical advice and strategies on assumption mapping, stakeholder engagement, and data analysis. Listeners gain insights into balancing fact and assumption, managing risk, and ensuring that learning solutions genuinely address performance challenges rather than merely looking engaging.Guest ProfileTom McDowall is the Chair of The Learning Network and a seasoned expert in learning design and product strategy. Known for his candid and pragmatic approach, Tom brings years of experience in tackling real-world performance issues through thorough research and data-driven methodologies. With a reputation for challenging the status quo, his insights help organisations move beyond superficial solutions to create impactful learning experiences.Key Take-AwaysHow would you summarise the "Understand" phase in 60 seconds?Tom stresses that the "Understand" phase is the most crucial step in the design process. It sets the foundation for all subsequent phases, and if done incorrectly, nothing else matters. He highlights that this stage involves rigorously examining assumptions and real facts, and the phase must be approached without shortcuts to mitigate unnecessary risk.What is assumption mapping and why is it important?Assumption mapping involves breaking down a client’s request into facts and assumptions. Tom uses this tool to clarify which parts of the brief are evidence-based and which are speculative. This clarity prevents the design process from veering off course and helps in making informed decisions that address genuine business risks.How do you deal with stakeholder pushback?Tom explains that pushback often comes in the form of pressure over deadlines and budgets. He advises identifying who truly controls these aspects (budget holders, timeline setters, and key decision-makers) to build alliances. Engaging those who may even disagree initially can provide a more realistic picture of the workplace and improve the overall output.How do you balance individual work with team collaboration during the "Understand" phase?Tom emphasises the value of interacting directly with stakeholders and end users. While solo work can lead to faster ideas, it risks missing crucial feedback. He recommends a mix of interviews, roundtable discussions, and group activities to challenge assumptions and enhance understanding, ensuring the process is inclusive and reflective of real-world conditions.What challenges and joys do you experience during this phase?Tom loves the early stages of gathering data through interviews and fieldwork but admits that analysing the data can be a tedious task. He suggests that delegating data analysis to someone who enjoys it, or using technological tools to assist, can help maintain momentum without compromising the quality of insights.How do you ensure your analysis communicates value?Effective data visualisation is critical. Tom argues that good visualisations should tell a story that stakeholders can understand at a glance—not just a collection of graphs. By clearly demonstrating the impact of potential risks and the benefits of informed decisions, you can secure stakeholder buy-in and move the project forward.What advice do you have for someone struggling with the "Understand" phase?Tom advises not to stress about perfection; incremental improvement is key. Start by distinguishing between facts and assumptions and use that as a basis for further exploration. Even if you only conduct a few quick interviews, share your findings and adjust based on feedback. The goal is to build a robust foundation that informs the rest of the project.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:01] – Introduction and Guest WelcomeGreg Arthur introduces Tom McDowall, highlighting his role as Chair of The Learning Network and teasing the focus on the "Understand" phase of the product design process.[01:00] – The Critical Nature of the "Understand" PhaseTom summarises the importance of the "Understand" phase in under 60 seconds, stressing that a solid understanding is essential to prevent costly risks and errors later in the process.[02:18] – Managing Predefined Understand Phases and RiskDiscussion on how to handle clients who come in with preset ideas. Tom explains his approach to risk management by questioning assumptions and reinforcing the need for proper data gathering.[04:04] – Navigating Stakeholder PushbackTom details common pushbacks from stakeholders—such as tight deadlines and budget constraints—and how he leverages direct conversations with key decision-makers to clarify project objectives.[06:16] – Starting the "Understand" Phase: Assumption MappingAn in-depth look at assumption mapping: its purpose, the process, and how it helps to differentiate between facts and assumptions early in the project.[07:42] – The Role of Data and Collaboration in the Understand PhaseTom discusses the balance between working solo and collaborating with stakeholders, highlighting the risks of isolation and the benefits of engaging multiple perspectives.[10:11] – Addressing the Love-Hate Relationship with Data AnalysisTom reveals his personal challenges with data analysis and the strategies he uses to overcome them, including hiring specialists and leveraging technology.[16:56] – Visualising Data for Impactful CommunicationA discussion on the power of data visualisation and how effective visuals can translate complex data into actionable insights for stakeholders.[22:00] – Identifying Key Stakeholders to InvolveTom explains the importance of involving the right stakeholders—especially those who are critical or even sceptical—to obtain an accurate representation of the workplace environment.[28:00] – Measuring L&D Success Beyond Popularity MetricsThe conversation shifts to performance metrics, emphasising that true success is measured by performance improvement rather than superficial popularity scores.[40:21] – Debunking the Myth of Short Attention SpansA debate on whether learning content must be short and flashy, with Tom arguing for the necessity of deeper engagement and meaningful content to drive performance improvements.[47:08] – Historical Perspectives on Performance ImprovementTom reflects on lessons from past decades, particularly from Thomas Gilbert's Human Competence, and discusses the need to focus on environmental fixes rather than over-relying on training.[52:39] – Final Advice for Tackling the "Understand" PhaseTom offers practical tips for those struggling with the "Understand" phase, recommending incremental progress, careful assumption mapping, and continuous stakeholder engagement.[56:15] – Plugs and Closing ThoughtsTom invites listeners to connect with him on LinkedIn and check out his YouTube channel, Instructional Design Tips, for more insights on L&D and product design.About the PodcastProduct Design for Learning is a podcast that explores how product design principles can transform learning and development. Hosted by Greg Arthur, the podcast features deep-dive discussions with industry experts, practical insights, and strategic advice to help organisations create effective, human-centred learning solutions. Subscribe for regular episodes that blend cutting-edge product design with the latest trends in L&D.

Human-Centred Design for a Skills-First Transformation | PDFL PodcastEpisode SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design for Learning podcast, host Greg Arthur is joined by Charlie Kneen from Solvd Together to discuss human-centred design for a skills-first transformation. They explore the realities of skills-based organisations, the pitfalls of traditional competency frameworks, and how businesses can genuinely embed skills-first approaches.Charlie shares his perspective on why many organisations are missing the mark with skills strategies, the importance of outcome-driven design, and how experience design can drive real behavioural change. They also tackle common challenges in workplace learning, the role of leadership, and how human-centred design can be applied at scale to shift organisational culture.Guest ProfileCharlie Kneen is a learning strategist and human-centred design advocate at Solved Together, a consultancy focused on solving business challenges through innovative design thinking. Charlie is passionate about rethinking traditional approaches to skills development, challenging the status quo in learning and development (L&D), and designing experiences that create lasting impact.Key TakeawaysWhat is a skills-first transformation, and why does it matter?Many organisations are rebranding traditional competency frameworks as "skills strategies" without changing their approach.A true skills-first organisation requires fundamental shifts in strategy, rather than just new tech or frameworks.Human-centred design helps companies rethink their approach by focusing on outcomes, not just structures.How do skills, competencies, and tasks differ?Competencies are often compound skills that vary in different contexts, making them difficult to measure effectively.A task-first approach focuses on what people need to do rather than broad, vague skills.Businesses should start with strategic goals, then work backwards to define the skills that drive those outcomes.Why are traditional skills strategies failing?Many organisations invest heavily in complex competency frameworks that don’t get used.There’s an overreliance on tech-based solutions that don't address the core challenges of skill-building.A skills-based organisation should be social and dynamic, rather than a rigid framework applied from the top down.How can organisations shift to a human-centred design approach?Start with the end goal: What is the business trying to achieve? Then design backwards.Prioritise real-world experiences over theoretical learning. Simulating real challenges leads to more effective learning.Adopt an outcome-driven design mindset: rather than focusing on content, focus on the experiences that will drive behavioural change.How can large organisations embed human-centred design at scale?Organisational change requires both top-down leadership buy-in and bottom-up employee engagement.Different teams and individuals may need different learning experiences to achieve the same overall transformation.Tracking data continuously, rather than relying on outdated pulse surveys, helps businesses stay agile in their learning strategies.Chapters and Timestamps[00:00] – Introduction to the EpisodeGreg Arthur introduces Charlie Kneen and the topic of human-centred design in a skills-first transformation.[00:55] – What Does Skills-First Really Mean?Charlie challenges the idea that most companies are truly skills-based.The difference between competencies, skills, and tasks.[02:38] – The Problem with Competency FrameworksWhy traditional approaches fail to deliver meaningful skill development.The role of outcome-driven design in making learning effective.[07:21] – The Two Camps in L&DOne group believes L&D is dying, while another believes it’s thriving.How skills-first transformation is being used as a buzzword in both conversations.[13:08] – How Do You Convince Stakeholders to Shift Mindsets?How Solved Together helps organisations embrace strategic transformation.The importance of working with clients who already align with human-centred design principles.[18:24] – Why Experience Design is Crucial for Behavioural ChangeThe difference between knowledge transfer and true learning through experience.Real-world examples of how experience design creates stronger learning outcomes.[25:00] – Scaling Human-Centred Design in Large OrganisationsHow large businesses can implement human-centred approaches without overwhelming their workforce.The importance of removing barriers rather than just introducing new frameworks.[32:37] – The Role of Data in Learning & PerformanceWhy businesses need to move beyond one-off surveys and adopt continuous data tracking.How employee experiences provide more valuable insight than traditional L&D reporting.[47:17] – The Future of Human-Centred Design in L&DWill anything truly change in L&D by 2035?Why many companies will still be making the same mistakes in a decade’s time.[53:07] – Practical Steps to Get Started with Human-Centred DesignRedefining what L&D is truly there to do.Tracking time and resources to ensure learning interventions are strategic and impactful.[55:10] – Final Thoughts & Where to Learn MoreCharlie shares details about Solved Together’s Learning Labs and upcoming industry events.About the PodcastProduct Design for Learning is a podcast dedicated to exploring how product design principles can enhance learning experiences. Hosted by Greg Arthur, the podcast features conversations with experts in learning design, product strategy, and experience design, offering insights on how to create more impactful, human-centred learning solutions.🎧 Subscribe to the podcast for more discussions on innovation in learning and development!

Exploring Learning as a System with Nick Petch – PDFL Podcast Episode 10Episode SummaryIn Episode 10 of the Product Design for Learning podcast, host Greg Arthur engages in a deep conversation with Nick Petch, a design-based researcher with over 20 years of experience in learning, strategy, and systems thinking. Together, they explore the intersections of innovation, learning ecosystems, and service design, challenging traditional approaches to L&D. Nick shares insights on how learning needs to shift from content delivery to fostering environments of experimentation, dialogue, and incremental innovation. The episode dives into the philosophical and practical aspects of designing for learning in complex systems, with plenty of real-world examples and thought-provoking concepts.Guest ProfileNick Petch is a multi-disciplinary designer and researcher whose work spans learning, design strategy, and systems thinking. Nick’s career has focused on building adaptive learning ecosystems that thrive in complex environments. He is passionate about applying innovation to service and product design, creating solutions that enable learning to happen naturally within work systems rather than as a separate entity.Key TakeawaysWhat does innovation mean in learning design?Innovation in learning is context-dependent. Without understanding the ecology of a system—whether organizational, cultural, or societal—true innovation is not possible.The focus should shift from large-scale solutions to small, incremental experiments that build "big ripples."Why is service design critical for learning?Learning and service design intersect in creating environments where learning emerges naturally.Effective learning isn't about standalone content but about embedding permission, opportunity, and motivation into the workplace environment.How can research unlock innovation?Research fosters a relationship with the learning context, allowing designers to work with the system rather than imposing fixes.Storytelling and narrative-based research are powerful tools for understanding what drives real change in a learning ecosystem.What’s the role of leadership in learning ecosystems?Leadership plays a vital role in modeling entrepreneurial attitudes toward learning.Managers who create low-risk opportunities for experimentation help establish a culture where learning is an integral part of work.Why is the current L&D model insufficient?L&D often focuses on volume and compliance instead of meaningful learning outcomes.Much of the content delivered is "authoritative knowledge written yesterday," which doesn’t adapt to the emergent and dynamic needs of learners.How can organizations foster a learning culture?Organizations should focus on systemic changes like job-task-based learning and monitoring behaviors instead of retrospective analysis.Providing permission for employees to experiment, fail, and reflect can lead to significant long-term growth.What does the future of learning look like?Learning will become more integrated into systems through narrative-driven approaches, real-time feedback, and even AI-driven apprenticeships.The focus will shift from creating content to designing environments that amplify signals of learning while dampening barriers.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – IntroductionGreg introduces Nick Petch and the theme of the episode: innovation and systems thinking in learning design.[00:40] – Nick’s Background and PhilosophyNick shares his background in design-based research and why he sees learning as a systems-level challenge.[02:38] – Defining Innovation in LearningNick explains how innovation depends on understanding the system in which learning occurs, using small experiments as a way to test impact.[04:53] – Where is Innovation Happening?The conversation dives into where innovation occurs today, with examples ranging from generative AI to service-level design.[12:30] – The Role of Research in LearningNick elaborates on how research builds a relationship with the learning context, enabling real, actionable innovation.[19:00] – Breaking Rules to Foster LearningGreg and Nick explore the balance between rules and innovation, emphasizing the need to disrupt routines for true learning to emerge.[28:00] – Job Tasks and Continuous MonitoringNick introduces the idea of job-task-based learning as a way to track progress and adapt learning in real time.[40:00] – Marginal Gains and Systemic ChangeUsing examples from cycling, Nick illustrates how small adjustments can lead to significant improvements in performance and learning.[53:00] – Narrative-Driven Approaches to LearningThe conversation shifts to how stories and narrative research can create visible changes in organizational systems.[01:05:00] – Designing for the Social AgeNick discusses how the shift from product-focused to experience-focused design reflects broader changes in society.[01:15:00] – The Future of LearningFrom AI-driven tools to cognitive apprenticeships, Nick shares his vision for how learning might evolve in the next decade.[01:40:00] – Final ThoughtsGreg and Nick wrap up with a discussion on lifelong learning and the importance of embedding learning into work environments.About the PodcastThe Product Design for Learning (PDFL) podcast explores how design principles can transform learning experiences. Hosted by Greg Arthur, the show features in-depth conversations with thought leaders in learning, innovation, and product design to uncover actionable insights for L&D professionals.Subscribe and Follow the Podcast to stay updated on new episodes!

Building Learning Products in Public with Laurie Barton – PDFL Podcast Episode 9Episode SummaryIn Episode 9 of the Product Design for Learning podcast, host Greg Arthur sits down with Laurie Barton, a learning product designer and community-led advocate, to discuss the concept of "building in public" and its transformative impact on learning products. Laurie shares insights into how engaging with communities and involving end-users throughout the product lifecycle can lead to more effective, authentic, and purpose-driven learning experiences. They also delve into the challenges, opportunities, and lessons learned when designing educational products collaboratively with stakeholders and learners.Guest ProfileLaurie Barton is an expert in learning product design and community-driven approaches. She currently works at The Alliance, where she oversees the development of certifications and learning products with a community-led go-to-market strategy. With a background in EdTech and customer success, Laurie is passionate about bridging the gap between users' real-world needs and the learning solutions they engage with.Key TakeawaysWhat does "building in public" mean for learning products?Laurie defines building in public as involving the community and end-users throughout the design process to create learning products that are truly impactful. This approach ensures learning solutions are relevant, user-friendly, and capable of driving real-world application.Why don’t more L&D teams adopt a product design mindset?Many learning teams fail to see themselves as product teams.Stakeholders often prioritize deadlines or preconceived ideas over audience needs.The disconnect between intention and implementation often results in underwhelming learning experiences.What are the benefits of a community-led approach?Creates more authentic learning products by integrating real-world user experiences.Builds advocacy and trust by involving users early and often.Encourages continuous improvement through user feedback and iteration.How do you decide what to include in your learning product?Laurie explains how The Alliance balances user feedback, market research, and competitive intelligence to prioritize the most impactful content. They aim for users to leave with actionable skills they can apply immediately in their roles.How does "building in public" help during MVP testing?Trusted focus groups or ambassadors are key for pre-launch refinement.Iteration with smaller cohorts prevents an overwhelming flood of opinions.Community involvement in testing ensures relevance and builds advocates for the final product.What lessons has Laurie learned about building in public?The Power of Community: Engage your audience to co-create impactful products.Let Go of Being the Expert: Facilitate learning rather than dictating it.Iteration Builds Trust: Embrace feedback and adapt continuously to create better experiences.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – IntroductionGreg welcomes Laurie Barton to the podcast and introduces the topic of building learning products in public.[00:30] – Defining "Building in Public" for Learning ProductsLaurie explains what building in public means and why it’s crucial for designing impactful learning experiences.[02:20] – Why Laurie Embraces This ApproachLaurie shares her career journey and how her background in customer success informs her product-led approach to learning.[05:14] – Getting to the "Aha" MomentGreg and Laurie discuss the importance of delivering learning products that create trust and deliver quick, actionable wins.[07:41] – The Role of Community in Product DesignLaurie highlights how The Alliance uses community-led go-to-market strategies to co-create learning experiences.[12:30] – Differentiating Wants and NeedsLaurie explains how to balance user input with practical product design considerations to avoid feature bloat.[19:00] – Formats, Features, and FunctionalityThe conversation shifts to how formats and learning objectives influence product design, using real-world examples like Duolingo and Monzo.[28:00] – Lessons from Everyday ProductsLaurie and Greg explore how lessons from consumer products, like iPhones and Shazam, can apply to learning products.[39:00] – The Power of Iteration and FeedbackLaurie discusses how continuous iteration based on feedback keeps learning products relevant and impactful.[53:00] – Final TakeawaysLaurie shares her top three lessons learned from building in public and emphasizes the importance of community engagement and flexibility.About the PodcastThe Product Design for Learning (PDFL) podcast explores the intersection of product design, learning, and innovation. Hosted by Greg Arthur, each episode dives into practical strategies, real-world examples, and expert insights to help L&D professionals create more engaging and effective learning experiences.Subscribe and Follow the Podcast to stay updated on the latest episodes.

Navigating Market and Release in Learning and Development with Alice ThompsonEpisode SummaryIn this insightful episode of the Product Design for Learning (PDFL) Podcast, host Greg Arthur welcomes Alice Thompson, Development Partner at M&S. Together, they explore the intricacies of marketing and releasing learning products within a global organization. Alice shares her expertise in training international teams and emphasizes the importance of storytelling, audience understanding, and relationship building in effective learning product promotion.Guest ProfileAlice Thompson serves as a Development Partner at M&S, focusing on the international side of the business. With years of experience in learning and development, Alice is passionate about designing efficient training systems, leveraging internal expertise, and addressing the unique challenges of delivering high-quality learning experiences in diverse global markets.Key TakeawaysThink Like a Marketer Early On: Start considering your audience and marketing strategy from the initial stages of product design.Storytelling as a Superpower: Craft compelling narratives to make your learning initiatives resonate and drive engagement.Leverage Data and Insights: Use audience behavior and feedback to refine your approach continually.Build Relationships: Networking and maintaining open dialogue with stakeholders are key to understanding needs and building trust.Test and Iterate: Start small, gather feedback, and scale up effective ideas.Questions Explored in This Episode"Can you explain your role as a Development Partner at M&S?"Alice outlines her work with global teams to create efficient training methods. She emphasizes collaboration with franchise partners and owned markets to address challenges in delivering a consistent customer experience."Why is the market and release phase so critical?"Alice highlights this phase as the bridge between strategy and execution, focusing on delivering relevant content through the right channels to the right people."What are common mistakes in L&D marketing?"Alice reflects on her early missteps, such as overloading audiences without understanding their needs, and stresses the value of relationship building and audience alignment."How can storytelling improve learning product marketing?"Alice explains how storytelling can create emotional connections and communicate the value of learning initiatives effectively."What advice do you have for someone starting in this phase?"Alice recommends understanding your audience, leveraging the right channels, and continuously learning from both successes and failures.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Introduction to the EpisodeGreg introduces Alice and sets the stage for a conversation about marketing and releasing learning products.[01:04] – Alice’s Role at M&SAlice explains her work with international teams and the skills required to deliver impactful learning globally.[03:46] – The Importance of Market and ReleaseAlice discusses why this phase is essential for ensuring learning initiatives succeed.[07:00] – Audience Insights and Challenges in L&DA deep dive into the value of understanding audience needs and habits.[17:18] – Tips for Marketing Learning ProductsAlice offers practical advice for professionals new to the market and release phase.[36:33] – Lessons from Past MistakesAlice shares a candid account of a marketing misstep and the lessons learned.[43:47] – Tools and Techniques for SuccessAlice reveals her go-to tools and methods for effective learning product promotion.[53:25] – Closing ThoughtsGreg and Alice wrap up the conversation, inviting listeners to connect and share their thoughts.About the PodcastThe Product Design for Learning (PDFL) Podcast explores the intersection of design, technology, and learning. Hosted by Greg Arthur, the podcast features industry experts who share their insights, experiences, and strategies to help listeners create impactful learning solutions. Whether you're a seasoned L&D professional or just starting out, this podcast is your guide to navigating the ever-evolving landscape of learning and development.Connect with Alice Thompson on LinkedIn to continue the conversation about L&D innovation and strategies!

Leadership in Learning: The Future of Impactful L&D – Episode 7 with David JamesEpisode SummaryIn Episode 7 of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur welcomes David James, Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning and host of The Learning and Development Podcast. The episode dives deep into the concept of "Leadership in Learning," exploring how L&D professionals can move beyond process-driven approaches to become strategic partners driving real impact within organizations. David shares insights on redefining leadership in L&D, addressing skills gaps, and combating the "conspiracy of convenience" that undermines the function's potential.Guest ProfileDavid James is a seasoned L&D leader with over 25 years of experience. As Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, he focuses on enabling organizations to close skills gaps effectively. He also hosts the popular Learning and Development Podcast, where he engages with thought leaders to challenge conventional approaches and inspire transformation in the industry.Key TakeawaysLeadership in Learning: True leadership in L&D requires recognizing the limitations of the status quo and driving change toward impactful practices that align with organizational goals."Conspiracy of Convenience": The entrenched status quo often leads to ineffective learning programs. Breaking this cycle requires L&D leaders to challenge stakeholders and push for meaningful change.Purpose-Driven L&D: Defining a clear purpose and aligning strategies with organizational priorities is essential for building credibility and achieving results.Earning Credibility: Unlike other C-suite roles, L&D leaders must actively prove their worth through measurable impact, moving beyond popularity metrics.Future of L&D: The shift toward skills-based learning and internal mobility highlights the importance of proactive, strategic L&D leadership to address evolving workplace demands.Questions AskedWhat does "leadership in learning" mean to you?David emphasizes that leadership in L&D is about moving beyond the expected and requested roles to set a vision that inspires stakeholders. It involves recognizing where the organization is, knowing what needs to be done, and taking strategic actions to benefit employees, teams, and the company.What are common barriers to implementing impactful L&D strategies?David introduces the concept of the "conspiracy of convenience," where stakeholders cling to ineffective models like traditional training because they’re easy to understand and implement. Breaking this pattern requires courage, analysis, and a willingness to challenge the norm.Why is L&D often seen as a "popular but not credible" function?David explains that many L&D functions focus on popularity metrics—like attendance and satisfaction surveys—that don’t demonstrate true impact. To earn credibility, L&D must focus on measurable outcomes such as skills development and business results.What differentiates successful L&D leaders?Successful leaders redefine their role by building partnerships, focusing on skills development, and aligning their strategies with organizational goals. Persistence, strategic consulting, and influencing stakeholders are key traits of impactful leaders.How can L&D professionals overcome execution challenges?David suggests starting with self-reflection on purpose and assessing organizational readiness. L&D professionals should focus on areas they can influence, use data to measure success, and communicate their impact to stakeholders effectively.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Welcome and IntroductionGreg introduces the episode theme and guest, David James, highlighting his work at 360Learning and The Learning and Development Podcast.[00:49] – Defining Leadership in LearningDavid explains leadership in L&D as the ability to challenge expectations, set a compelling vision, and bring stakeholders along on the journey.[03:17] – Barriers to Effective L&DDiscussion on the "conspiracy of convenience" and why traditional training models fail to deliver meaningful outcomes.[07:24] – Credibility in L&DExploration of why L&D is often seen as a cost center and how to shift perceptions through impact-driven strategies.[15:51] – Addressing the Skills CrisisDavid outlines the growing importance of closing skills gaps and why traditional methods are insufficient.[27:26] – Elements of Leadership in L&DA breakdown of key components of leadership, including purpose, influence, and aligning with organizational goals.[44:32] – Why David Stays in L&DDavid shares his passion for L&D and belief in the profession’s potential to drive transformative change.[48:26] – Advice for Aspiring L&D LeadersTips for self-assessment, focusing on impact, and navigating execution challenges in leadership roles.About the PodcastThe Product Design for Learning Podcast explores the intersection of design, learning, and innovation. Hosted by Greg Arthur, each episode features leading thinkers and practitioners who share actionable insights to shape the future of learning and development. Subscribe for expert discussions, practical advice, and transformative ideas.Don’t miss this inspiring conversation with David James—an essential listen for anyone looking to elevate their L&D leadership game!O

Mastering Production in Learning Design: Insights from Matt Ash of ChangeablyEpisode SummaryIn this episode of The Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur delves into the nuances of production with Matt Ash, founder of Changeably and a seasoned expert in learning design. Together, they explore how to streamline production processes while maintaining creativity and quality, even when faced with challenging projects like compliance training. Matt shares lessons from his career, including award-winning projects and insights on balancing innovation with client expectations.Guest ProfileMatt Ash is a consultant, strategist, and founder of Changeably. With a background in learning design, Matt has spearheaded creative, award-winning projects, including films recognized at the Cannes Corporate Film Festival and New York Film Festival. He is an advocate for using agile methodologies in learning design to improve efficiency and elevate content quality.Key TakeawaysBalancing Creativity and Structure: Production thrives on creative freedom but demands clear scope, deadlines, and budget to avoid pitfalls.Client Collaboration: Effective communication and stakeholder involvement at every stage are key to navigating changes and ensuring alignment with project goals.Agile Production: Iterative approaches, rooted in discovery and regular review, can prevent scope creep and enhance output quality.Challenging Compliance Norms: Even compliance projects can be engaging and innovative when approached with an audience-focused mindset.Questions ExploredWho is Matt Ash, and what’s his approach to production in learning design?Matt shared his journey from creating early-stage e-learning to scaling an agency team and pioneering agile methodologies. His production philosophy focuses on consistency, audience-centric creativity, and aligning with business goals.How do you manage a multidisciplinary production team?Matt discussed the importance of giving filmmakers, developers, and designers creative freedom while aligning their outputs with project goals. This approach fosters innovation even in traditionally rigid fields like compliance.How can compliance learning be exciting and impactful?Using an audience-centric approach, Matt transformed compliance content into compelling narratives, earning prestigious awards. His work exemplifies how purpose-driven storytelling can elevate even the most mundane subjects.What are the essential pre-production elements for success?Matt emphasized the need for clearly defined scope, deadlines, and budgets. He advised conducting a robust discovery phase and identifying key goals to prevent misalignment during production.How do you handle mid-production changes?Flexibility and open communication are crucial. Matt shared how referencing agreed-upon goals and involving all stakeholders early on helps mitigate costly scope creep.What advice would you give to someone struggling with production?Matt recommended following the same structured processes you advise clients to use—pausing to reflect, sharing challenges, and seeking alternative perspectives to resolve issues effectively.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – IntroductionGreg introduces Matt Ash and the episode’s focus on the art and science of production in learning design.[01:34] – Matt Ash’s JourneyMatt recounts his career highlights, including agile experimentation and managing award-winning creative teams.[04:43] – Making Compliance CreativeThe shift from dull compliance content to engaging, award-winning films is explored.[09:32] – Overcoming Creative Challenges with ClientsMatt shares strategies for bringing clients on board with innovative production ideas.[15:54] – Essential Pre-Production ElementsA discussion on scope, deadlines, and budgets as the cornerstones of successful production.[24:20] – Handling Changes Mid-ProductionGreg and Matt exchange insights on managing client-driven changes during production.[35:44] – Final Advice for Production SuccessMatt’s key takeaway: stop, reflect, and follow your established processes.About the PodcastThe Product Design for Learning Podcast is hosted by Greg Arthur and focuses on the intersection of design, production, and learning. Each episode features industry experts who share actionable insights on creating impactful learning experiences. Whether you're a designer, strategist, or educator, this podcast will guide you in crafting innovative and effective solutions.

Navigating the Agency and In-House Dynamic: Insights from Jess AndrewsEpisode SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur sits down with Jess Andrews, a seasoned learning and development professional with experience on both the agency and in-house sides of the table. Jess shares insights into the nuanced relationships between agencies and internal teams, the challenges of making an impact in learning and development (L&D), and how to foster collaboration for successful projects.Guest ProfileJess AndrewsJess is a learning and development expert who recently transitioned to an in-house role at Multiverse after an impactful career working agency-side. She brings a wealth of experience in managing creative projects, building strong client relationships, and implementing innovative L&D solutions.Key TakeawaysWhy Do Internal Learning Teams Use External Agencies?Logistical Support: Small teams often need help with scalability and quick turnarounds.Creativity and Industry Expertise: Agencies bring fresh ideas, innovative solutions, and cross-industry insights.Differences Between Agency and In-House WorkAgency Work: Offers end-to-end control and responsibility but can be overwhelming due to multitasking.In-House Work: Requires letting go of control in some areas and focusing on influencing internal stakeholders.What Makes an Agency-In-House Relationship Successful?Clear Communication: Regular check-ins and transparent discussions about goals and challenges.Relationship Building: Understanding each other's work styles and stress points fosters collaboration.Alignment on Goals: Both parties must be clear about the ultimate objectives to avoid misaligned priorities.Challenges in Achieving ImpactMisalignment on goals or poor initial scoping can derail projects.Agencies need to balance challenging their clients with respecting internal constraints.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – IntroductionGreg Arthur introduces the podcast and welcomes Jess Andrews to discuss the relationship between internal teams and agencies.[04:30] – Why Internal Teams Use AgenciesJess explains the dual reasons of logistical support and creative innovation for seeking external help.[07:20] – Transitioning from Agency to In-HouseJess shares her experiences adjusting to the in-house mindset and managing internal stakeholders.[14:24] – Building a Successful Agency-In-House RelationshipDiscussion on the importance of understanding communication styles, stressors, and shared goals.[22:05] – What Does It Mean to Make an Impact?Jess highlights the role of agencies in helping organizations achieve quick, measurable outcomes.[25:09] – When Agency Use Can Hinder GoalsExploration of how poor scoping and internal biases can undermine a project’s success.[33:15] – Managing Differing Opinions and Data ConflictsJess and Greg share strategies for reconciling conflicting recommendations between teams.[42:59] – Advice for Agencies and Internal TeamsJess offers practical advice for strengthening collaboration and overcoming challenges.[47:41] – The Future of Agencies and Internal TeamsJess speculates on evolving dynamics, including potential synergies with contractors and the growing marriage of design and learning.About the PodcastThe Product Design for Learning Podcast delves into the art and science of designing impactful learning solutions. Each episode features industry experts who share their perspectives on the latest trends, challenges, and strategies in the L&D field. Whether you’re an in-house professional or part of an agency, this podcast offers actionable insights to elevate your projects.

Mastering MVPs: Insights on Testing and Validation in Product Design with Patrick MullarkeyEpisode SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design For Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur sits down with Patrick Mullarkey, Senior Leadership Development Manager at Staffbase, to discuss the pivotal role of Minimum Viable Products (MVPs) in the product design process. From idea validation to scalability, Patrick shares his expertise in creating learning strategies that drive meaningful outcomes. This engaging conversation highlights the importance of feedback, iteration, and humility in both product design and leadership development.Guest ProfilePatrick Mullarkey is the Senior Leadership Development Manager at Staffbase and an accomplished learning and leadership professional. With over 12 years of experience, he specializes in designing strategies that empower leaders and teams to excel. Passionate about bridging the gap between concept and execution, Patrick brings a wealth of knowledge on MVPs and their role in fostering innovation.Key TakeawaysMVPs as Testing Grounds: MVPs are essential for moving ideas from theory to practice, allowing teams to validate concepts and uncover user needs.The Value of Feedback: Accepting constructive criticism and iterating on it leads to better, user-aligned solutions.Scaling with MVPs: By testing early, teams can address scalability issues and resource requirements before full implementation.Leadership Training Through MVPs: Creating impactful, emotionally engaging scenarios in leadership programs is key to fostering behavioral change.Key Questions and InsightsHow would you summarize the MVP phase?MVPs are a critical "moment of truth," transitioning ideas into practical tests to validate whether they solve real user problems.What are examples of good and bad MVPs?Good: Quickly sketching ideas for immediate feedback and collaboration.Bad: Overly polished prototypes that discourage user engagement or fail to address alignment issues early.How basic can an MVP be?An MVP should go beyond static presentations to interactive prototypes that allow users to experience and engage with the concept.Why is an MVP phase essential?Without MVPs, teams risk wasting resources on unvalidated solutions. MVPs provide clarity on direction, scalability, and feasibility.How do you incorporate leadership development into MVPs?Using scenarios that evoke emotional responses helps participants practice skills in a realistic, impactful way, leading to better retention and application.What if an MVP fails?Failure in MVPs isn’t a setback but a learning opportunity. Acting on feedback and having a clear plan for the next steps builds trust and ensures progress.What tools or advice can help with MVPs?Embrace ambiguity and view it as a sign of progress.Focus on the process rather than the final product.Use frameworks that prioritize iterative feedback and flexibility.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Introduction and WelcomeGreg introduces the episode and guest Patrick Mullarkey, setting the stage for a deep dive into MVPs.[02:13] – The MVP Phase: Moving from Idea to RealityPatrick explains the role of MVPs in bridging the gap between concepts and practical application.[05:16] – Real-World MVP ExamplesPatrick shares lessons from both successful and less effective MVPs, emphasizing the importance of alignment and feedback.[09:54] – Overcoming Common RoadblocksThe discussion highlights challenges like over-polished prototypes, misaligned teams, and stakeholder disagreements.[13:59] – What Makes a Good MVP?Key characteristics of effective MVPs include user interaction, actionable feedback, and practical testing.[19:15] – Leadership Development and MVPsPatrick explores how leadership training programs benefit from MVP methodologies, focusing on emotional engagement and practice.[24:17] – Responding to Feedback and Scaling InsightsWhy it’s crucial to remain humble, iterate, and plan for scalability after testing MVPs.[36:20] – Tools and Strategies for MVP SuccessPractical advice for navigating ambiguity, focusing on process, and leveraging user insights to improve products.About the PodcastThe Product Design For Learning Podcast delves into the art and science of designing learning experiences that drive results. Hosted by Greg Arthur, the show features expert guests who share actionable insights on product design, leadership development, and user-centered strategies. Whether you’re a designer, educator, or leader, this podcast offers valuable takeaways to elevate your work.Subscribe to the Product Design For Learning Podcast and join the conversation today!

The End of L&D? Reimagining Learning and Development in a Changing WorkplaceEpisode SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur is joined by Toby Kheng to discuss the provocative topic, "The End of L&D." They explore the challenges, limitations, and future possibilities of Learning and Development (L&D) as it currently operates within organisations. Toby argues for a systemic overhaul, where L&D evolves into a more holistic "employee experience design" function, integrating insights from HR, internal communications, and beyond.Key themes include the role of data, the value of product and service design in learning, and the imperative to break down silos for more effective and engaging employee solutions.Guest ProfileToby KhengWith over 14 years in L&D, Toby is a thought leader passionate about transforming organisational learning. He co-founded Freeformers, focusing on innovative, human-centred approaches to employee experience design. Toby’s expertise spans L&D, internal communications, and organisational strategy.Key TakeawaysWhat is wrong with the traditional L&D model?L&D often functions in a silo, designing training that validates its existence rather than addressing broader organisational needs. This narrow focus leads to duplication, inefficiency, and missed opportunities to impact engagement, productivity, and profitability.How can L&D adopt a product and service design mindset?Treat employment as a product, designing for the entire employee journey.Borrow frameworks from customer experience design, such as human-centred design and design thinking.Break down silos between HR, internal communications, and recruitment to create cohesive employee experiences.What is the role of data in the future of L&D?Toby highlights the need for consistent, meaningful data collection across departments to inform decision-making. Without integrated insights from recruitment, HR, and internal comms, L&D operates in an informational vacuum.Why is collaboration across departments critical?Getting stakeholders like HR, recruitment, and communications into one room can reveal overlaps, reduce duplication, and spark innovative solutions. The future of L&D lies in its ability to lead this integration.What’s next for L&D in the next 10-20 years?By 2030: Incremental improvements with AI and tech adoption but largely within the current framework.By 2040: Transformation driven by small-to-medium businesses adopting holistic employee experience models, influencing larger corporations to follow suit.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Introduction: The Clickbait TitleGreg introduces the podcast and Toby, setting the stage for the discussion on the potential "end" of L&D.[01:00] – What’s Broken in L&D?Toby shares his critiques of traditional L&D models and the limitations of siloed functions.[02:30] – Evolution or Revolution?Greg and Toby debate whether the future of L&D is a gradual evolution or a complete overhaul.[05:30] – Applying Product and Service Design to L&DToby explains how frameworks like human-centred design and the double diamond can transform learning initiatives.[12:00] – The Role of Data in Employee Experience DesignHow can L&D leverage data from across the business to create better solutions?[20:00] – Breaking Down Silos: Why Collaboration MattersInsights into building bridges between departments to improve the overall employee journey.[35:00] – The Future of L&D: Predictions for 2030 and BeyondWhat will L&D look like in 10-20 years, and who are the real "saviours" of the industry?[1:05:00] – Final Advice for L&D ProfessionalsToby’s practical advice for those looking to implement change within their organisations.About the PodcastThe Product Design for Learning Podcast explores the intersection of learning, design, and technology. Hosted by Greg Arthur, the show features thought leaders and innovators who share actionable insights to help organisations create more impactful employee experiences.🎙 Subscribe to never miss an episode and join the conversation on LinkedIn!

Product Design for Learning Podcast: L&D Data Rock: Key Strategies for Real Impact | Ep. 2Episode SummaryIn this episode of Product Design for Learning, host Greg Arthur talks with Bo Duery, Impact Lead at Lepaya, about the pivotal role of data in designing and measuring learning programs. Bo shares insights from his journey from chemical engineering to Learning & Development (L&D), discussing why data should be an integral part of the design process. From setting actionable goals to using qualitative and quantitative methods, Bo shares strategies to help L&D professionals gather, analyze, and leverage data effectively.Guest ProfileName: Bo DueryTitle: Impact Lead at LepayaBackground: Bo’s career began in chemical engineering and operational improvement before transitioning into L&D, where he emphasizes data-driven decision-making for soft skills training and performance enhancement. His approach combines analytical rigor with empathy for the learner experience, advocating for data that both informs and inspires impactful learning solutions.Key TakeawaysUnderstanding Data’s Role: Data isn’t just numbers; it’s a tool for deeper insights into learner needs and program effectiveness.The Value of Observation: Observing people in their work environments provides context beyond raw data, uncovering practical challenges and learning gaps.Setting Realistic Goals: Establishing three key levels—organizational goals, audience needs, and program specifics—ensures clear alignment from the start.Balancing Qualitative and Quantitative Data: Combining surveys and interviews creates a balanced view, capturing both measurable outcomes and nuanced experiences.Iterative Analysis: Regular reflection on data helps teams adapt quickly, making data analysis a continuous, rather than a one-time, process.Using Gut Feeling Cautiously: While instincts can be valuable, they should be backed by data, especially in team settings where opinions vary.Questions AskedWhat led you to focus on data in the field of learning and development?Bo shares his journey from operational improvement in industries like manufacturing and healthcare to his current role in L&D. He discusses how his experiences underscored the importance of tracking and measuring performance, which led him to advocate for data-informed learning strategies.How do you define the role of data in the product design process?Bo describes data as the investigative phase in design, where stakeholders align on questions, gather evidence, and distill insights. He emphasizes that data is essential in building a strong foundation, guiding teams before solutions are even considered.How do you suggest approaching data collection in a learning project?Bo recommends starting with a clear understanding of organizational goals, the audience’s needs, and program objectives. He advises a tiered approach that explores organizational impact, individual behaviors, and specific program details, using both qualitative and quantitative methods for a complete view.What methods do you use for gathering data and understanding learning behaviors?Bo emphasizes the value of in-person observation, shadowing, and direct interaction with learners to contextualize data. He advocates for exploring qualitative insights before relying solely on quantitative metrics, balancing the numbers with real-world context.How can teams know if they have gathered “enough” data?Bo advises balancing data collection with time and budget constraints. He suggests that confidence in presenting findings, especially to senior stakeholders, is a good indicator of having sufficient data.How do you balance data with stakeholder instincts and gut feelings?Bo discusses the importance of involving stakeholders early to gather their perspectives, which can help guide data collection. He notes that instincts often stem from experience, and blending these insights with data can create more informed decision-making.What are some common mistakes when working with data in L&D, and how can they be avoided?Reflecting on his own journey, Bo discusses early mistakes of being too rigorous and treating L&D as an exact science. He now advises a flexible approach that respects the complexities of learning, advocating for simpler, actionable insights over exhaustive data collection.What tools or activities do you recommend for making the data phase effective?Bo suggests tools like stakeholder check-ins, data affinity mapping, and regular reflection sessions. He highlights the importance of simplifying data insights on one slide, creating a “big picture” view that aligns with program goals.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:01] – Introduction to Bo Duery and the Importance of DataGreg introduces Bo, who shares his background and explains why data is central to effective learning programs.[02:21] – Defining Data in the Product Design ProcessBo discusses how data acts as an investigative and alignment tool, bringing clarity before solutions are crafted.[04:42] – Tackling Challenges in L&D Data CollectionBo reflects on challenges in L&D with data collection, especially in organizations unfamiliar with this approach.[06:01] – Building a Three-Tiered Approach to Data CollectionBo shares his framework of aligning data with organizational goals, audience needs, and program objectives.[08:56] – Observing Learners in Their EnvironmentsBo discusses the benefits of direct observation and qualitative research to understand real-world learning challenges.[12:12] – Knowing When You Have Enough DataThe hosts discuss balancing thoroughness with practicality, including when to rely on “gut feeling” in decision-making.[20:13] – Analyzing Data and Recognizing PatternsGreg and Bo discuss methods for analyzing data, including affinity mapping and using group insights to spot patterns.[26:55] – Advice for Overcoming Data Collection ChallengesBo provides advice for teams new to data collection, recommending curiosity and stakeholder engagement as essential starting points.[38:45] – Tools and Techniques for Effective Data Use in L&DBo shares practical tools and techniques, from maintaining stakeholder relationships to simplifying data insights.[43:15] – Closing Remarks and Resources for Further LearningBo gives a shout-out to influential researchers and offers to connect with listeners on LinkedIn.About the PodcastThe Product Design for Learning podcast delves into the intricacies of creating effective, data-informed learning experiences. Each episode features expert guests who share insights, tools, and strategies for designing impactful learning solutions. Host Greg Arthur engages with leaders in the field, offering listeners practical advice on everything from the design process to implementation, helping L&D professionals enhance their skills and drive organizational impact.

Understanding the 'Understand Phase' in Product Design Episode SummaryIn this episode of the Product Design for Learning Podcast, host Greg Arthur speaks with Arash Mazanani, a dynamic learning leader from Aggreko, about the critical Understand Phase in product design, particularly in the context of learning solutions. They dive into the importance of this phase, which involves thoroughly exploring problems and defining requirements before moving into solution-building. Arash shares his insights on how to guide stakeholders, ask the right questions, and ensure that learning products meet both business objectives and employee needs.Arash Rezeai-Mazanani ProfileArash Rezeai-Mazanani is a learning professional with over a decade of experience in FTSE 100 and private equity companies. He specialises in leadership development, global transformation, and human-centred design. His approach centres on experimentation and disruptive thinking to create meaningful, business-aligned solutions that address employee challenges.Key Take-AwaysThe Understand Phase serves as a North Star, helping guide teams by clarifying project goals and focusing efforts.Asking the right questions during this phase is critical to uncovering the real problem behind requests.Arash stresses the importance of curiosity and using techniques like the Toyota "5 Whys" to dig deep into stakeholders' needs.Starting with what people need to do rather than what they need to know ensures that learning solutions are practical and impactful.Stakeholder management is key: defining who should be involved and why helps streamline projects and avoid late-stage derailments.Don’t rush the Understand Phase; it's vital to get a comprehensive understanding before moving to the next phase.Questions AskedWhat is the Instagram vs Reality version of your professional bio?Arash explains how everyone has a "swanky" version of their job title but emphasises the daily challenges professionals face, including doubt and striving for improvement.How would you summarise the Understand Phase and why is it important?Arash describes the Understand Phase as a guiding force that provides direction and clarity. Without defining the problem, projects risk scope creep or lack of focus.How do you approach vague project requests or specific demands?Arash emphasises curiosity and asking lots of questions to really get to the heart of the problem. Understanding assumptions and the true drivers behind requests is essential.What happens when stakeholders come in late to a project?Arash advises avoiding this by ensuring key stakeholders are involved from the start. He shares strategies for addressing late-stage interventions if they occur.How do you manage stakeholder expectations and involvement?Arash discusses the importance of identifying stakeholders with clear roles and responsibilities. Keeping stakeholder groups tight helps avoid unnecessary delays and misalignment.How do you ensure you’ve covered everything in the Understand Phase before moving forward?Arash stresses the importance of asking whether all aspects of the problem have been fully explored, using the "think, feel, do" model to make sure no stone is left unturned.How do you prevent people from jumping to solutions too early?Arash suggests encouraging stakeholders to share all their ideas upfront, then parking those ideas until the appropriate phase. This allows for a more focused problem-solving approach.What advice would you give to someone struggling with the Understand Phase?Arash recommends staying curious, enjoying the journey, and making the Understand Phase a non-negotiable step in the process. He also highlights the value of defining metrics to know if a problem is real.Chapters and Time Stamps[00:00] – Introduction to Arash Mazanani and Episode Overview[03:30] – The Importance of the Understand Phase in Product Design[05:04] – Arash’s Approach to Managing Project Requests[07:30] – Stakeholder Involvement and Common Pitfalls[10:04] – Handling Late Stakeholders in Projects[15:30] – Problem Definition: Challenges and Insights[20:49] – How to Know When to Move to the Next Phase[26:05] – Focusing on the “Do” in Think-Feel-Do[34:13] – Managing Early Solutions and Idea Overload[40:33] – Advice for Struggling with the Understand Phase[48:17] – How Long Should You Spend in the Understand Phase?About the PodcastProduct Design for Learning is a podcast dedicated to exploring the intersection of product design and learning. Each episode features experts who share their insights on creating effective learning experiences that align with both business goals and user needs. Hosted by Greg Arthur, the podcast covers topics like human-centred design, performance consulting, and leadership development in the corporate learning space.