The Subrogation Support Network Podcast

Join host Ashton Kirsch for a preview of his upcoming CLM Conference presentation on negotiation strategies, featuring claims experts Amber Guenther from Alliant Insurance Services and Cortney Helfrich from Wilbur Group. This episode tackles why negotiation is the most undervalued skill in claims, applicable to everything from subrogation recoveries to defense settlements. The panel discusses practical strategies, including the 70/30 rule (listen more than you speak), how to keep emotions out of high-stakes conversations, and why building relationships beats transactional approaches every time.The conversation covers critical industry challenges like nuclear verdict fears driving poor settlement decisions, the importance of first impressions in negotiations, and how to train adjusters to handle difficult adversaries without getting rattled. Learn why every claim deserves individual attention, how to de-escalate heated negotiations, and why practicing negotiation daily (even when buying jeans) makes you better at closing deals.

In this episode of the Subrogation Support Network, host Ashton Kirsch sits down with Donnie Vaughn, a 15-year claims professional and author of The AI Advantage in Claims, to unpack what AI actually means for claims teams—and why it’s no longer optional to understand it. Donnie breaks down AI “101” in plain language, compares major tools (beyond just ChatGPT), and explains how claims professionals can use AI to accelerate everyday work like drafting demands, improving written communications, and tightening workflows without sacrificing accuracy.Ashton and Donnie also tackle the real-world risks: confidentiality, public-source tools, “hallucinated” outputs, and the growing challenge of deepfakes and fabricated evidence. They discuss how carriers, TPAs, and subrogation vendors can implement AI responsibly (think: internal systems, security, and human review), plus what individual adjusters can do immediately to stay competitive—starting with learning how to prompt, verify, and refine AI output. Donnie’s book, The AI Advantage in Claims, is available here: https://a.co/d/07louEZr

Ashton Kirsch sits down with mediator and negotiation professor Lee Mendelson for a practical, subrogation-focused conversation on what actually moves cases to resolution. Lee shares how he transitioned from running a long-time subrogation practice to mediating full-time nationwide, and why subject-matter expertise matters when selecting a mediator—especially in technical and insurance-driven disputes.They break down how strong negotiators prepare (and why most don’t), including BATNA/walkaway points, anchoring, objective criteria, and the difference between positional bargaining and interest-based problem solving. The discussion also tackles real-world mediation strategy: when early (pre-suit or early-suit) mediations make sense, what to include in mediation submissions (and what to keep confidential), how to handle difficult client/insured dynamics, and how Zoom mediations have changed participation and decision-maker access. The episode closes with actionable tips for adjusters and attorneys who want better outcomes, fewer stalemates, and a more disciplined approach to negotiation.

In this special crossover episode, Subrogation Support Network host Ashton Kirsch sits down with Jerrod Fussnecker, Army veteran, former JAG officer, military judge, and host of the Military Veterans in Law podcast, for a powerful conversation about service, career transitions, and the surprising ways military experience aligns with insurance and subrogation work.Ashton and Jerrod dive into Jerrod’s path from West Point to Afghanistan to the courtroom, and how the discipline, leadership, accountability, and investigative skills honed in the military translate directly into claims handling, litigation strategy, and recovery work. Together, they discuss what employers should know when recruiting veterans, how veterans can better “translate” their resumes for civilian legal roles, and why the insurance industry is uniquely positioned to benefit from the veteran talent pipeline.They also break down what subrogation really is, why it matters, and how veterans looking for mission, teamwork, and purpose can find all three in this corner of the legal world. 

In this episode, Subrogation Support Network host Ashton Kirsch teams up with Subro Sense host Aaron Jacobs for a deep dive into something most people don’t realize happens behind the scenes: true collaboration between subrogation firms. Together, they unpack how attorneys from different organizations coordinate strategies on market-share claims, large-loss commercial property cases, MDLs, mass torts, and product failures. They also discuss the challenges of balancing different carrier risk appetites, choosing the right experts, and avoiding the pitfalls of low-cost vendors. This episode offers an honest look at how cooperation, not competition, is driving better recoveries and shaping the future of the industry. 

This episode is packed with energy (literally). Your host, Ashton Kirsch, sits down with Simon Keshishian, Head of Risk Management for Red Bull North America, for a high-octane conversation about what it really means to manage risk when your company is known for pushing limits. From cliff-diving events to contract clauses, Simon shares how Red Bull balances bold ideas with calculated controls, all while keeping humor (and a few dad jokes) at the center of his leadership style.They dive into the evolution of risk management, the growing importance of subrogation, and how today’s carriers can recover smarter, not harder.  It’s a rare glimpse into one of the world’s most recognizable brands' approach to risk, resilience, and recovery. **Red Bull is a registered trademark of Red Bull GmbH. This podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Red Bull**

 In this episode of the Subrogation Support Network, host Ashton Kirsch sits down with Caryn Siebert, Vice President of Carrier Engagement at Gallagher Bassett, for a candid conversation about leadership, claims innovation, and the future of subrogation. Caryn shares how her unconventional path, from aspiring veterinarian to attorney to insurance executive, shaped her understanding of people, process, and purpose in the industry. Together, Ashton and Caryn unpack the value of centralized subrogation, the importance of accurate metrics in the C-suite, and how data-driven strategy can transform carrier performance. Beyond the technical insights, Caryn offers practical and inspiring advice for rising professionals on mentorship, career growth, and stepping outside your comfort zone. This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about claims, subrogation, and building a meaningful career in insurance. 

Two of the subrogation world’s leading voices join forces in this special crossover between the Subrogation Support Network and Claims Hunter podcasts. Host Ashton Kirsch of Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C. and guest co-host Chris Tidball of SubroIQ dig deep into what really drives successful recoveries—spotting hidden opportunities, investigating fast, and negotiating smart.From missed recoveries worth millions to the evolving role of AI, and from frontline adjuster training to future trends like autonomous-vehicle claims, Ashton and Chris share real-world stories, lessons learned, and practical strategies you can put to work today.This crossover isn’t just a conversation—it’s a call to action. Use the strategies shared here to sharpen your claims process, spot overlooked recoveries, and stay ahead of shifting industry trends. 

From the bright lights of Nevada to the cornfields of Nebraska, subrogation is getting a legislative makeover. In this episode of the Subrogation Support Network, host Ashton Kirsch sits down with Gary Wickert to unpack sweeping workers’ compensation reforms in two states that couldn’t be more different—but are shaping the same conversation.Ashton and Gary explore how Nevada went from one of the toughest places for comp subrogation to a state offering clearer, common-sense rules, while Nebraska grapples with court rulings that threaten to sideline recovery altogether. Together, they highlight what these changes mean for claims professionals, why legislative compromise matters, and how reform efforts impact employers, insurers, and the subrogation industry at large. It’s a practical, state-specific look at where subrogation is headed—and why it matters to anyone working in insurance and risk.

 What happens when Mardi Gras beads meet the Napoleonic Code? In this episode of the Subrogation Support Network, host Ashton Kirsch sits down with New Orleans partner Jim Busenlener to dive into Louisiana’s one-of-a-kind legal system. They discuss how French civil law still shapes subrogation today, the sweeping tort reforms shaking up the state, and why knowing the difference between “prescription” and “statute of limitations” could make or break your case. From made whole disputes to workers’ comp liens, discover why Louisiana is one of the trickiest and most fascinating jurisdictions for subrogation professionals. 

Join host Ashton Kirsch and guest Mark Solomon for an in-depth exploration of workers’ compensation subrogation in Texas. This episode of the Subrogation Support Network dives into the unique legal landscape of the Lone Star State, covering first-dollar recovery, non-subscriber rules, intervention strategies, and practical tips for maximizing recoveries. Whether you’re a claims professional, attorney, or insurance carrier, you’ll gain valuable insights into navigating Texas’s business-friendly subrogation laws and best practices for protecting you and your clients’ interests.

When cargo shifts, chaos can follow, and so can costly claims. In this episode, we unpack the legal implications of load shift incidents in the trucking industry. From driver responsibility and loading protocols to third-party liability and litigation strategies, Ashton Kirsch and guest speaker Don Henderson cover what happens when the freight doesn't stay put. Whether you’re defending a claim, pursuing recovery, or just trying to understand the risks, this episode delivers the insights you need to keep your case (and your cargo) on solid ground.

 On this episode of The Subrogation Support Network Podcast, Ashton Kirsch is joined by Don Henderson to dive into the journey from law school to legal practice. Together, they explore the transition from textbooks to the courtroom and share valuable lessons learned in the early days of a legal career.

Ashton Kirsch hosts The Subrogation Support Network Podcast for an episode on Autonomous Vehicles. 

Ashton Kirsch hosts The Subrogation Support Network Podcast for an episode on part 2 of Negotiations 101. 

Gary Wickert hosts this episode of the Subrogation Support Network and is joined by MWL's Lead Subrogation Paralegal, Emily Bates to discuss which workers' compensation payments can be subrogated. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Patti Rutzinski, Subrogation Supervisor with Secura Insurance,  to discuss Retain Counsel for Subrogation Claims. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Partner, Gary Wickert, Shareholder and founding member at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C., to discuss selecting and working with experts. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Raven Jelinske, an Associate Attorney at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s Hartford, Wisconsin office, to discuss Miss Dig Claims.  

Ashton Kirsch hosts The Subrogation Support Network Podcast for an episode on Bomb Throwing Demands. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Sally Bruch, Sr. Counsel at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s Hartford, Wisconsin office, to discuss cannabis insurance.  

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Lee Wickert, Partner at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s Austin, Texas office, to discuss downtime claims.

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Gary Wickert, Shareholder at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s Austin, Texas office, to discuss the societal benefits that Subrogation has to offer. 

Ashton Kirsch hosts The Subrogation Support Network Podcast for an episode on The MCS-90 Endorsement. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by James Busenlener, Branch Managing Partner at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s New Orleans, Louisiana office, to discuss who has to pay for a fraudulent check and the duties of banks and consumers in the age of modern scammers. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Brianna Law, Associate at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s New Orleans, Louisiana office, to discuss bailment in subrogation. 

Ashton Kirsch hosts The Subrogation Support Network Podcast for an episode on premises liability claims with a broad overview on slip and fall accidents.

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Bryan Spitulski, Senior Principal Consultant with Envista Forensics, to discuss fire claim investigation. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Ana Zabalgoitia, Sr. Associate at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s Austin, Texas office, to discuss Artificial Intelligence and its impact on the law today.

Ashton Kirsch hosts The Subrogation Support Network Podcast for an episode on part 1 of Negotiations 101. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Katherine Sandoval, Partner and Branch Manager at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s Santa Ana, California office, to discuss the Maui wildfire of 2023. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Jason Rosen with Rosen Resolution, to discuss respective positions and potential outcomes in strategizing mediation. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Jim Frerking, Vice President, Sales at Paradigm, to discuss high acuity, catastrophic workers compensation claims.

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Darren DiMaria, Chief Client Officer at DCI Solution, to discuss vehicle appraisal, total loss valuation and diminished value.

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Joseph Simeo, Vice President at Thornton Tomasetti, to discuss construction defect claims in subrogation. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Lee Wickert, Sr. Associate at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s Austin, Texas office, to discuss best practices for signing releases in subrogation.

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Katherine Sandoval, Partner and Branch Manager at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s Santa Ana, California office, to discuss wildfire claims in Subrogation. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Mark Solomon, Partner and Branch Manager at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C.'s Austin, Texas office, to discuss livestock claims in Subrogation. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Antoine Rios, Sr. Managing Engineer with The Madison Group, to discuss plastics failures in Subrogation. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Gary Wickert, Shareholder and founding member at Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C., to discuss the top 10 mistakes in Subrogation. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Valorie Steinbeck, Team Manager for Inland Marine/Cargo at Crawford and Company, to discuss Cargo Claims in Subrogation. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined with Steve Smith, Partner with Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C., to talk about a recent seminar: Automobile Subrogation in All 50 states: The view from 35,000 feet. They cover Med-Pay/PIP subro, the Made-Whole Doctrine, Common-Fund and more. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined with Griffin Gross, an Associate with Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C., and Patti Rutzinski, Subrogation Supervisor with Secura Insurance,  to talk about an upcoming seminar - Set Up for Success: Investigation and Implementation of Subrogation Claims. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Elizabeth Hernandez, Partner with Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C., to discuss the new Florida Tort Reform Bill passed in March of 2023.

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Joey Daryanani, Vice President of Specialized Services at CSAA Insurance Group, to discuss the rising topics and issues of autonomous vehicles in subrogation today and how the technology has taken the industry by storm. 

Ashton Kirsch is joined by Rich Schuster, Shareholder with Matthiesen, Wickert & Lehrer, S.C., to talk about Kia and Hyundai vehicle thefts: trending on TikTok. They discuss the riveting events of the recent Kia/Hyundai thefts and highlight the social media sensation, 'The Kia Boys', rising numbers in car thefts, and vehicle design defects.