Thinking the Unthinkable with Nik Gowing

Thinking the unthinkable is not a theoretical exercise. It is a leadership necessity. And most important it is achievable.  In this conversation, Kylie Porter, a CEO from northern Queensland in Australia, explains how she has done it. “It’s a big hairy topic that must not be avoided,” she tells TTU’s Nik Gowing.   Her organisation, GW3, is leading the economic transformation away from mining in the city of Mackay. She describes how it did a somersault, moving from resistance to readiness when facing an uncertain future.  “It’s like flying a plane while building it.” And a main secret was to take her 15 employees – all of them women - on the urgent journey of change.  There are no perfect models to follow. “We can only manage risk… we can’t eliminate it.” Instead, Kylie outlines the new mindset required to navigate uncertainty: curiosity, persistence, and “a good, big dose of bravery.”  As global shocks increasingly impact even the most remote regions, the unthinkable must not be regarded as a distant irritation. In Mackay it was already happening.  In this podcast Kylie Porter sets out a practical blueprint for CEO’s and leaders like her to face the complex unthinkables of profound, long-term change.  📄 Full transcript available on our website. 🎧 Subscribe for more unfiltered conversations with leaders challenging the status quo. 🌐 Learn more about Thinking the Unthinkable here: https://thinkunthink.org/  🎧 Listen to our podcast on Spotify here: https://shorturl.at/onLxw 🎧 Or Apple podcasts here: https://shorturl.at/xS9B7o. 

The energy transition is no longer a distant goal. It is being accelerated by real-world pressures. In this conversation, veteran activist and campaigner Tony Juniper says “I’m more optimistic than I’ve ever been for some time.” He explains that climate change is now much more than an environmental issue. It is “very evidently a question of financial stability, of food security, of geopolitical stability.”As global instability reshapes priorities, the debate around energy is shifting. “Replacing fossil fuels with fossil fuels is not really the best choice.” So “the best choice is to displace fossil fuels with renewables.” Speaking with Nik Gowing, Juniper sets out why this moment is driving a more decisive move towards clean energy and why he is optimistic despite some “truly catastrophic realities”. The direction is clear. The challenge is pace.📄 Full transcript available on our website.🎧 Subscribe for more unfiltered conversations with leaders challenging the status quo.🌐 Learn more about Thinking the Unthinkable here: https://thinkunthink.org/ 🎧 Listen to our podcast on Spotify here: https://shorturl.at/onLxw🎧 Or Apple podcasts here: https://shorturl.at/xS9B7o.

Stop Mopping the Floor. Turn Off the Tap.  In this upbeat conversation Kumi Naidoo, President of the Fossil Fuel Treaty Initiative, argues that we have spent 30 years treating the symptoms of climate change while protecting its root cause.  From a funeral for a glacier to the Fossil Fuel Treaty, this is a conversation about activism, arts, democracy and why courageous hope is now both essential and achievable.  “We have been wiping the floor without turning off the tap,” he tells our Thinking the Unthinkable podcast..   Eighty six percent of emissions still come from fossil fuels. Yet global negotiations continue to produce what Kumi calls outcomes full of loopholes.  He underscores that the crisis is not environmental. It is systemic. But activism is mobilising new positives. “We need courageous hope” and this is happening.  Energy. Finance. Food. Transport. Power.  He also warns that the climate, biodiversity and nature movement is severely held back by a communications deficit.  Facts are not enough. People respond to loss. To the impact on children. To a lack of imagination. But arts and culture are showing a new way.   Listen to the full conversation. Find out more about TtU here: https://thinkunthink.org/

In this latest episode of Thinking the Unthinkable podcast, Helle Bank Jørgensen explains why boards are falling behind, even when they think they’re being prudent.“Familiarity creates a powerful illusion. It reassures boards that time is on their side.”But it is not. That illusion comes at a cost. Boards are being destabilised by the pinball effect, with shocks bouncing them unpredictably in every direction. And they are not prepared for this“By the time we have done all of that, we are actually too late.”This conversation explores why waiting feels safe but it should not be. Boards must do much more to prepare for when disruption hits them. Helle poses ten brutal questions their members must ask themselves to prepare for disruption hitting them.“As a board member, I might not know everything, but I’m still responsible.” So asking these questions is vital.Watch the full discussion.

After the disappointment of the COP30 communique, Simon Sharpe cuts through the noise with a very different message: “Reality is way ahead of negotiations.”  In this TTU podcast, Simon unwraps optimism. He explains why “twice as much is going to be invested into clean energy… than into fossil fuels” this year. Last year “over 90% of the new power generating capacity… was renewables.”  Simon is both a visionary and challenger of orthodoxy. He sets out the practical actions that matter now.   The big principle? “First build, then break.” Build the new clean systems first, then the old fossil-fuel-based systems will eventually fall away.  “You do not need 198 countries to change the economy.” There is a more productive way to achieve results “Focus the diplomacy on problem solving rather than goal setting.”  “If you want to beat the fossil fuels… you have to destroy demand for them.” EVs already “about 20% of global car sales, up from about 2% only six years ago.”  Simon also highlights the successes achieved by much smaller, but highly influential coalitions. Various deals bringing together China, India, Brazil and the EU, show how precisely targeted regulation can shift global markets years faster than what huge multilateral negotiations achieve.  This is a clear, compelling, and positive conversation about what is actually working and why it must be accelerated.   📄 Full transcript available on our website. 🎧 Subscribe for more conversations on leadership in a disrupted world. 

“Dream Mad. Dream Crazy”  It’s bold. It’s brave. And it works.  In this inspiring episode, Inder Poonaji, Director of ESG and Sustainability at Modulaire, explains why achieving the radical progress needed depends on imagination, courage, unlimited risk, and practical action.  Hs has basic core principles. “When you let people's imagination run, they can do things where they're not limited.” . . . “Design in sustainability, design out waste.” . . .“Perfection is the enemy of progress.” . . .“If you aim for the stars, you'll touch the moon along the way.”  From “loops within loops” in circular design to the need for collaboration across industries, Inder has achieved proof of concept for a revolution of ideas and the way to achieve a new mindset for change.  📩 Get in touch: [email protected] #futurism #sustainability #leadership

COP30 should be raising hopes.  In this upbeat conversation, Sarah Mukherjee, CEO of the Institute of Sustainability and Environmental Professionals, explains why pursuing sustainability creates a boon for businesses. Sustainability is not about restriction. It is about adaptation, innovation, and growth.  “Less than 2% say their sustainability budgets have decreased,” Sarah tells TTU. “If you switch the lights off when you leave the office, you’re not only saving carbon. You’re saving money.”  With 21,000 members worldwide, Sarah shares real data. It shows how businesses are actively investing in sustainability because it makes sense. She and Nik explore how to reframe the narrative from doom to opportunity. Then how small, practical changes are achieving big impact.  🎧 Take a look at more of our episodes: thinkunthink.org/podcast 📩 Get in touch: [email protected] 

Mark had told our podcast the “oil age is ending: we’re watching it shrink gracefully”. He said that CTI’s analysis shows a “contraction” by design is going on. Fossil fuel producers are not doubling down on production. In fact they are “stepping back from energy growth altogether”.  Sir Jeremy criticised Mark’s argument as “very partial”, “too simplistic” and “too categorical about the decline in oil demand”. On wind and solar “Mark never mentioned the high degree of intermittency: look at availability figures as opposed to installed capacity”.  Sir Jeremy said “Mark is right to point to a major transition going on”, but then said that his arguments are wrong. The shift to renewables is slower and costlier than many assume. He wanted to explain why.  So we brought them together for this compelling 45 minute conversation. Listen and you will hear why it is so riveting.  

In this episode of Thinking the Unthinkable, Nik Gowing speaks with Sweta Chakraborty, CEO of We Don’t Have Time, about why solving the climate crisis is not only possible but inevitable.Sweta shares insights from behavioural science on how humans process risk, why pessimism is overblown, and how communication and urgency can drive global action. “We need a public groundswell of support… not blame people, but make it easier for people to get behind solutions and to make the right decisions.” She shares how We Don’t Have Time uses behavioural science to turn awareness into action, why tailored messaging is critical to driving change, and why “it’s never been easier to take action.” From food security to clean energy jobs, she explains how we can turn fear into hope and build the groundswell needed to overcome the climate emergency.

“We can rise to the challenge, if we choose to.” – Laurie Laybourn  Laurie Laybourn, Executive Director of the Strategic Climate Risks Initiative (SCRI), shares why the future is still in our hands, even amidst global risks.  Key messages: “We have the knowledge, the tools, and the ingenuity, now it’s about using them.” “We’re not passengers. We have agency.” “We have to build resilience into everything we do,  economies, policies, infrastructure.”  Positive tipping points are achievable, even in unstable conditions.  Takeaway: Every choice matters. By acting wisely today, we can shape a stronger, more resilient tomorrow. #cliamtechange #news #tippingpoints #climatecrisis

“Sticking by the status quo will not get us where we need to be, The current trajectory is not sustainable.”That’s the rare and radical warning from top banker John Flint.As CEO of the UK’s National Wealth Fund, he sees the system from the inside. His message is clear. While the first 50% of transition was achieved in a barely visible way, the final 50% will be much more difficult without a huge change in attitudes.People must feel positive about the radical things we must all do to combat climate change. This will not be easy.  Find out more here: https://thinkunthink.org/thinkunthink-podcast/

“Once you measure something, you can manage it.” Sherry Madera, CEO of CDP, joins Nik Gowing for a bold, data-backed conversation on why disclosure is the single most powerful trigger for climate-positive corporate action. Companies that disclose reduce emissions and boost profits. Supply chains save billions. And the potential returns far outweigh the cost of change.  Yet still, only one in ten companies embed Earth-positive practices into their business models.  Sherry shares the four levers that work. She explains the urgency of action. She lays out the risks of delay.  Start with what you have. Share the data. Use it across your business.  “Start today. Even with just a few data points. It will win you more business, investors, and talent.”  Watch the full conversation now—and subscribe for more frank, radical insights from the world’s most forward-thinking leaders. 

Kristian Teleki, CEO of Fauna & Flora International, issues a direct challenge: “Find your playbook—and throw it out.”The old ways aren’t working. The crisis is accelerating. What we need now is radical mindset shift.“We’ve got to be challenging each other.” “We need to be cunning. We need to be nimble.”This is about shaking up the system. It’s about getting into the rooms where nature and climate aren’t even mentioned— and changing the conversation.“The final chapter of this story has not been written.”The time for conventional thinking is over. Be radical. Be bold. Think the unthinkable.Website Links: https://www.thinkunthink.org/https://www.fauna-flora.org/

The transition to sustainable finance is moving faster than expected. In this conversation, Nina Seega, Director at the Centre for Sustainable Finance at Cambridge Institute for Sustainable Leadership, details to Nik Gowing why net zero is cheaper than many assume, the industries leading the charge, and why sustainability is a financial imperative.Nina highlights that transition costs have dropped by 73%, with UK households projected to save £1,400 annually by 2040. Yet, scepticism persists, driven above all by a short-term risk focus and negative narratives. “Businesses must embed sustainability at their core—not as a compliance exercise, but as a strategy for long-term profitability,” Nina emphasises. Financial institutions are already adapting, and those doing so are gaining a competitive edge.Watch now to understand why the positive data should convince companies to act fast to stay ahead.Website Links www.cisl.cam.ac.ukwww.thinkunthink.org

“Climate change is the existential threat we face,” says Leah Seligmann, Chief Executive and Chief Change Catalyst at The B Team. “But the opportunity is an economic transformation that will create jobs, wealth, and excitement... we are not going backwards.”Nik Gowing is joined by Leah Seligmann for this crucial conversation on 'greenhushing' and why silence on climate doesn't mean inaction. #politics #greenhushing #sustainability #news #green

The clean tech revolution is essential to tackling the climate crisis. It’s taking place faster than we think. New funding is enabling it to happen.  Beverley Gower-Jones is a leading expert on how to fund clean tech innovation. Her Clean Growth Fund is expanding fast, and more than doubling its resources..  In this new TTU podcast, she highlights to Nik Gowing  why clean tech is crucial to our future and how it is showing it helps businesses thrive while addressing the climate emergency.  

What’s stopping us from solving the climate crisis?"We need to stop talking to ourselves." In this thought-provoking conversation, Tom Rivett-Carnac challenges us to rethink how we communicate about the climate crisis. Are we truly engaging the people who need to hear the message most? Or are we stuck in an echo chamber?As co-founder of Global Optimism, Tom brings a unique perspective on shifting the narrative and driving real change. In this interview, he explores the power of storytelling, the role of optimism, and why broadening our audience is essential for progress.As Tom points out: "The solutions already exist. What’s missing is the will to act."Listen in to uncover why now is the time for leaders to take bold, decisive action. Find out more: - globaloptimism.com - thinkunthink.org #Sustainability #Leadership #ClimateAction #BoldDecisions #ThinkingTheUnthinkable #Innovation #GreenTransition #Resilience #FutureEconomy #ClimateCrisis #SystemicChange

Andrew Liveris, former Dow Chemical CEO, explains passionately to Nik Gowing on this Thinking the Unthinkable podcast that constant disruption demands a radical reimagining of skills. Andrew challenges every assumption leaders make about their abilities. He makes a compelling case for discarding outdated rule books for a new leadership toolbox. There is an urgency to adapt to the fast-evolving landscape, where digital, environmental, social, and geopolitical forces now collide. A new form of inclusive capitalism is needed. Andrew highlights the imperative for companies to integrate nature and the future of the planet into their balance sheets. The social license to operate (SLO) must be redefined. Sustainability must now be a fundamental business driver. Andrew's message is clear: leaders must re-invent themselves to handle constant disruption for the benefit not just of their companies but also society. In these 18 minutes podcast watch Liveris unveil graphically the blueprint for new leadership that ensures the status quo is remoulded for the new disruption. #LeadershipRevolution #DisruptionInnovation #SustainabilityLeadershipWebsites https://www.thinkunthink.org/ https://www.andrewliveris.org/ LinkedIn Thinking the Unthinkable Andrew N. Liveris

Be positive. Hear how smart, radical lobbying is achieving a big rethink on investments in fossil fuels, especially from pension funds.In our latest Thinking the Unthinkable podcast Catherine Howarth OBE, Chief Executive of ShareAction reveals the impact of their successful low key, activist tactics.She tells TTU’s Founder & Director, Nik Gowing: “Oh yes, we've got to stop feeling gloomy. There are many risks and challenges. But frankly, change is afoot. A lot is happening. We just need to accelerate. Each of us can tap into that extraordinary power of finance and investment to accelerate the already important change underway”Her message to us all: “Just go out and do it. Try it.” Tune in to hear how financial activism and systemic changes can drive the world toward a sustainable, low-carbon future.Website Linkshttps://www.thinkunthink.org/https://shareaction.org/

What’s holding leaders back from solving the climate crisis?In this episode interview with Sandrine Dixson-Declève, Nik Gowing challenges the urgency of rethinking business models for sustainability and fairness. They explore the connection between climate and inequality and the urgent role of courageous leadership.Sandrine emphasises, "The age of bold leadership is here. We need systemic changes—now."💬 "The solutions already exist. What's missing is the will to act."Listen as they unpack the challenges leaders face, the need for resilience, and how to create an equitable future.Can businesses lead this transition—or will they be left behind?Tune in for this honest and essential discussion.Learn more here: https://www.clubofrome.org/https://thinkunthink.org/

In this powerful interview with Dan Esty, Director at Yale University’s Center for Environmental Law and Policy and Nik Gowing, challenge the true intentions behind corporate sustainability efforts. Dan Esty boldly states, “We are at a critical moment—corporate leaders must make genuine, systemic changes, or we will face irreversible environmental damage.” Listen in as they dive into the reality of corporate greenwashing, the role of leaders in shaping the sustainability narrative, and why we all need to question the status quo. Dan’s message is clear: “If companies don’t step up now, the consequences could be catastrophic.” Can businesses lead the way toward a truly sustainable future, or are they just paying lip service? Find out in this critical discussion.

Emily's Dilemma: Truth or Scale of Climate Change? With Emily Shuckburgh Join Nik Gowing, Founder and Director of the Thinking the Unthinkable project, as he discusses the deepening climate, nature, and biodiversity crises with leading experts. In this episode, climate scientist Emily Shuckburgh, Director of Cambridge Zero at the University of Cambridge, shares how we can change the narrative around climate action to inspire hope and drive positive change Discover how innovative technologies, sustainable practices, and reframing the conversation can help individuals and societies tackle ambitious goals like the UK’s COP29 target of reducing emissions by 81% by 2035. Learn about real-world solutions, from zero-carbon cement to sustainable agriculture, and the power of communicating a shared vision for a better, more sustainable future. Tune in to explore how to transform doom into opportunity and inspire the global community to act.