Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Pankaj Raval, founder of Carbon Law Group, "the law firm for deal makers and risk takers," where he brings over 15 years of experience in business law, trademarks, and copyrights. Pankaj focuses on reducing friction and aligning legal strategy with business goals so entrepreneurs can focus on scaling, and he's an entrepreneur and innovator in his own right, which Kim notes makes him all the more credible. He's also a lifelong dancer who once memorized The Way You Make Me Feel off the Moonwalker video, won a karaoke contest, and took his mom to Michael Jackson's 30th anniversary concert in New York.In this conversation, Pankaj challenges the piece of conventional wisdom drilled into every law student: that success means landing the big firm job, the prestige, the shiny paycheck. Graduating into the worst legal market in history in 2009, with offers being rescinded across the industry, he never got that path, and now calls it one of the best things that could have happened. It forced him to figure out something else, and when his mother suffered an aneurysm, the scare crystallized that life is short and he had to chase what would actually make him happy. Rather than spend $150,000 on an MBA, he invested that money in himself, moved to LA, and built his own firm. Years later, some of the friends who took the big-firm route ended up working for him.A defining thread is how Pankaj learned to hear his own truth over the constant external noise: meditation and mindfulness. His first five-day silent retreat in law school left him more grounded and aware of his own thought patterns than ever, and nine or ten retreats and a near-daily practice later, he credits it with his ability to navigate the emotional weight of law and entrepreneurship, saying flatly he wouldn't still be practicing without it. Kim shares her own newer, unmissed 10-minute morning practice, and they land on the same encouragement: if you can't get ten minutes, get two, if not two, get one. Pankaj has woven it into the firm itself, opening every Monday meeting with a five-minute team meditation and building a related venture, Mindful Counsel, around integrating mindfulness into how businesses operate.Pankaj and Kim dig into the honest work of letting go, on multiple fronts. He's candid that no one really has it all figured out, that experience is earned through scary trial and error, and that he wants to dispossess anyone of the notion that he's got it all together. They talk about the seasons of life and radical acceptance of the present moment, about giving people grace because you never know what they're carrying, and about the hard decisions leaders avoid: holding onto the wrong-fit client or employee too long, which Pankaj admits stalled his firm's growth. Making space, he argues, is what lets new opportunities in. Kim frames the reframe as her own superpower, helping people reconcile an identity ("I'm a nice guy") with the hard action ("I need to let this person go").His biggest current leadership challenge is the classic growth inflection: wearing too many hats and, harder still, giving away the client work he genuinely loves so he can work on the business instead of in it. Kim names it a happy problem, and they're honest about the fear underneath, if I'm not practicing law, what's my identity, and will the firm's quality hold? Pankaj ties it to a bigger priority: with kids who are three and six, being present for dinner and school pickup is the real wealth, and he's at peace with the trade-off if it means fewer offices. He and Kim celebrate how much that generational shift in fatherhood has changed ("is your husband babysitting?" versus co-parenting), and Kim testifies that the gift of presence pays off, her three grown kids now live minutes away and know exactly what they were given.His most unconventional growth habit, especially for a lawyer, is coaching. Working with a business coach from the start helped him think outside the box, reduce friction, and leverage technology to speed up the firm. And a life coach's simple question, "why can't you charge what the big firms bill for someone like you?", surfaced the imposter syndrome behind his low rates. As he raised them, clients respected his time and his advice more, not less, because charging too little signals you don't believe in your own value. Kim's old homework for clients was saying their rate in the mirror until the physical flinch disappeared. Pankaj ties it all to resilience against rejection and the endless unlearning of society's message that you're not enough, closing on the line that captures the whole show: we don't need more things, we need more people to come alive.This episode explores:Why the big-firm dream isn't the only definition of legal successHow graduating into a terrible market forced a better pathInvesting in yourself instead of spending on the credentialMeditation and silent retreats as the tool for hearing your own truthIf you can't get ten minutes, get two: starting a practice anywhereBuilding mindfulness into how a firm actually operatesRadical acceptance and appreciating the season you're inGiving people grace because you never know what they carryWhy holding onto the wrong-fit client or employee stalls growthMaking space so new opportunities can arriveThe growth inflection: working on the business, not just in itPresence with your kids as the real measure of wealthCoaching as an unconventional edge, even for lawyersWhy charging too little signals you don't value yourselfBuilding resilience to rejection and unlearning "you're not enough"Pankaj's perspective is a powerful reminder that the unconventional path, the one you choose by listening to yourself instead of the crowd, often leads somewhere far better than the prestigious default. His journey from a rescinded-offer market to a thriving, mindfulness-driven firm shows that reducing friction, believing in your own value, and staying present are not soft ideas, they're how you build a business and a life that actually feels like yours.Connect with me here:Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershonNewsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=PodcastGuest Details:Guest: Pankaj Raval, Founder, Carbon Law Group ("the law firm for deal makers and risk takers")Focus: Business law, trademarks and copyrights (national and international), startup formation and governance, IP protection; also founder of Mindful CounselWebsite: https://carbonlg.com/capital-raise-counsel/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

For the 100th episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon does something fitting: she brings back her very first guest, friend and colleague Krista Mitzel of The Mitzel Group. Krista is an employment lawyer who runs a boutique firm providing advice and counsel to companies, and she's been practicing for over 25 years, the last 17 of them at the helm of her own firm. If you loved the first episode, this one expands on it, a conversation between two people who know each other well about what a year of growth, reflection, and reprioritizing has taught them.In this conversation, Krista challenges a piece of conventional wisdom pressed on women, and especially blonde, tall, outgoing women, in the legal profession: tone it down, downplay yourself, don't be "too much." Early in her career, two female partners pulled her aside not to critique her work, which was excellent, but to warn her that being attractive and gregarious "could be perceived the wrong way." She'd shown up in a sweater set, hidden nothing, and done her job, and the encounter was her first real look at the sexism baked into the industry, delivered as warning rather than mentorship. It's part of why she left that firm and vowed that when she made it, she'd never tell a woman to shrink.The heart of this milestone episode is a year of deep self-reflection. At 48, with her business grown, her boys in middle school, her mother's health declining, and friends navigating their own hard seasons, Krista has been reprioritizing where her time and energy go. She's arrived somewhere quietly radical for a self-described Type A entrepreneur: she's done enough, achieved enough, and no longer needs to be critical of herself for not achieving more. Nobody on their deathbed wishes they worked more, she says, and when Kim's old challenge ("what would happen if you 10Xed your business?") comes up, Krista recounts running the math in her head and realizing the trade, the travel and energy and time away from her kids, simply wasn't worth it. The reframe wasn't about capacity. It was about creating the life she actually wants.Krista and Kim dig into the discipline of rewriting your own story, a thread that runs through the whole hour. We solve problems from wherever our unconscious beliefs have already hardened, Kim notes, which is why it takes real mindfulness to challenge your own baseline, and Krista adds that it's scary to ask "how could I do this differently?" or "why did that client fire me?" because getting the information means confronting yourself. Both land on treating feedback as data: the packaging may be off, the person delivering it may be a pain, and there's still probably something in it for you. Krista's version of "come to the conversation with curiosity" pairs with a hard question worth asking whenever you're offended, why does this land so hard, is it because it might be true, or because you're hearing your mother in the background?She's candid about the leadership mistake it took her years to see: as an auditory processor who thinks out loud, she'd excitedly share every idea from every conference, not realizing her team heard each one as a change of plans. The fix was a deliberate system, a "parking lot" for ideas and just one or two real initiatives a quarter, because a team all rowing in the same direction gets there faster, and you can't change too many things at once for people who process differently. She's also worked to correct an overcorrection toward hands-off management, learning to be explicit about client communication and expectations without micromanaging, and to have the hard cost conversation with a client before the big invoice lands, because it's better not to do the work than not to get paid.Drawing on decades of watching companies handle their worst people problems, Krista offers the episode's most striking insight: everyone brings their childhood to work, leaders included. The reason people get sued, she argues, is that personalities collide and someone's old fear gets triggered, and she can spot a mile away who's told themselves a story that the world is out to get them. The answer isn't a one-size-fits-all management style but leading to each person's style, setting clear and fair boundaries, knowing your own gaps, and getting help (a partner or a coach) to balance them. On imposter syndrome and ambition, she's clear that constantly telling yourself you haven't done enough has nothing to do with ambition and everything to do with self-flagellation, and that the little wins, a good lunch, a kid's hug, everyone out the door without a fight, are what actually build a sense of peace.This episode explores:Why "tone it down" is a warning women get dressed up as mentorshipRefusing to tell other women to shrink themselvesHaving it all, just not all at the same time, and reprioritizing your timeDeciding you've achieved enough, and why the 10X trade wasn't worth itRewriting the stories your unconscious has already hardenedTreating feedback as data even when the packaging is offAsking why a comment offends you before reacting to itThe leadership cost of thinking out loud, and the "parking lot" fixOne or two initiatives at a time so the team rows togetherCorrecting from hands-off to appropriately involved without micromanagingHaving the hard cost conversation before the invoiceWhy everyone brings their childhood to work, leaders includedLeading to each person's style instead of forcing yoursWhy chronic "not enough" is self-flagellation, not ambitionThe little wins that build real peaceKrista's perspective is a powerful reminder that a full life comes with its stuff, that Instagram's rosy picture is never the whole story, and that most people are genuinely doing their best. Her evolution from Kim's first guest to her 100th-episode guest, more grounded, more peaceful, and more sure that she's lived a good life, shows that the bravest work a leader does is on their own story, and that being yourself was never the thing to apologize for.If you're a leader, professional, or anyone measuring yourself against a scoreboard that no longer fits, this milestone conversation offers real depth, honest talk about ambition and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that the little things matter more than the boxes you thought you had to check.Connect with me here:Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershonNewsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=PodcastGuest Details:Guest: Krista Mitzel, Founder, The Mitzel GroupFocus: California employment law; advice and counsel for companies; boutique firm (also Kim's first-ever podcast guest, back for the 100th episode)LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristamitzel/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Minyang "MJ" Jiang, chief strategy officer at Credibly, where she leads and implements the company's growth strategy alongside the executive team, overseeing more than 30 employees across marketing and sales and carrying responsibility for revenue generation. Before Credibly, MJ spent over eight years at Ford Motor Company in marketing, sales, and corporate strategy roles, and founded and ran GoRide Health, a Ford mobility startup serving underserved populations in medical transportation. She graduated top of her class at Harvard with a BA in literature and holds an MBA in marketing and operations from Wharton. Given any superpower, she'd choose to speak any human or animal language at will, because nothing is more disarming than showing someone you cared enough to learn how to talk to them. In this conversation, MJ challenges a piece of conventional wisdom that runs most of the early career game: that success means becoming the optimal version of whatever the environment rewards. Straight out of her MBA, she measured herself entirely by external validation, promotions, raises, rankings, grades, and she's skeptical of anyone who claims they didn't need that early on. What shifted is the question she now hands to people who ask how she got where she is. That's the wrong question, she says. The real one is "What kind of person do I want to be?" Answer that (knowing it comes in multiple drafts) and you can choose the path that moves you toward that person, instead of letting external validation quietly stand in for your self-worth and carry you further and further from meaning. One of the episode's richest threads is MJ's defense of self-doubt. People read her as confident, even intimidating, and she owns being smart and competent without shrinking herself to make others comfortable. But she insists she doesn't have it all figured out, and that self-doubt is healthy because it holds up a mirror to your deepest insecurities. Her sharpest insight: the most powerful insecurities often present as self-assurance, because they protect a core belief about who you are, so when they're challenged you'll fight to the death to deny them. Catching that in yourself, noticing when your mind flicks something away too easily or you have an answer too fast, is what lets you know when to trust your own judgment and when to seek people who really know you. Kim adds her own version: a big reaction to someone else is a mirror worth turning back on yourself, paired with the humble reminder, "who died and made you God?" On imposter syndrome, MJ is honest that it surfaces most when she's acted with genuinely good intent, only to be told she's misunderstood, and part of her wants to scream "how long have you known me?" The lesson she's learned is not to lash out, to sit with the hurt, and to borrow her kids' openness, the trepidation-but-still-going-for-it curiosity adults tend to lose. Her closing thought lands the whole episode: you're not strong because of how you feel, you're strong because of what you do. The act reinforces the belief, not the other way around, and simply showing up when it's heavy is already proof you're capable. This episode explores: The artificial constructs we hang behind our names Building your own boundaries versus living inside predefined ones Why self-doubt is healthy and a mirror to your insecurities How the deepest insecurities disguise themselves as confidence Turning a big reaction into a mirror on yourself Giving grace to others as a way of giving grace to yourself Why change management means honoring the internal process, not just executing Why "what does success look like" is so hard when it's about humans Attention as the scarcest resource, and why you can't scale time The mind grows during rest, like a muscle Ignoring the first three answers and digging to bedrock Sitting with being misunderstood instead of lashing out "You're strong because of what you do, not how you feel" MJ's perspective is a powerful reminder that confidence and self-doubt aren't opposites, that the questions worth asking are rarely the obvious ones, and that the person you're becoming matters more than any title behind your name. Her path from Harvard and Ford to leading strategy at a growing company shows that the leaders worth trusting are the ones brave enough to be alone with their own thoughts, honest about what they don't know, and willing to show up and do the hard thing before they believe they can. If you're a leader, strategist, or anyone measuring yourself by someone else's scoreboard, this conversation offers real depth, honest talk about self-doubt and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that strength is built by what you do, not by how you feel. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Minyang "MJ" Jiang, Chief Strategy Officer, Credibly Focus: Growth strategy, marketing, sales, and revenue leadership; former Ford Motor Company strategy leader and founder of GoRide Health LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/minyang-jiang-6981a148/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Joshua Lee, founder of First Light Studios, an Amazon and ecommerce growth agency that helps legacy brand owners bring their products online with integrity and impact. Josh works with business owners who have built trusted brands over decades and earned their place on retail shelves at REI, Walgreens, and CVS, but haven't yet cracked the code for Amazon, Walmart.com, or social shopping. His team helps those businesses protect their legacy while expanding online the right way. A self-described deep thinker still in his mid-30s, Josh is so locked in on leadership that when Kim asks for an irrational hill he'd die on, he keeps accidentally answering with rational leadership wisdom instead. In this conversation, Josh challenges a piece of conventional wisdom handed to him at 18 by a Fortune-company CEO who mentored him for a year: work for big companies early, climb the ladder, get taken under the right wings. He followed it, and now wishes he'd started the entrepreneurship he always wanted sooner. Given how scrappy, frugal, and creative he'd learned to be growing up, he'd have figured it out anyway, and the corporate processes that once required an insider seat can now be learned online or by shadowing people for free. What he wishes the CEO had said instead was to find a great leader and emulate them up close, because watching how someone spends a 24-hour day, meeting to meeting, in their actual energy, is a return no book or documentary can match. Josh is candid that what people mistake for having it all figured out is really just the season he's in. Life ebbs and flows through milestones, he says, and how someone looks tells you nothing about whether their life is all good, because struggle is the actual design of life, the way you prove to yourself you can do hard things so you can go on to do harder ones. He and Kim dig into happiness as a false end game (you couldn't recognize it without hardship to compare it to) and land on the philosophy at the foundation of Kim's whole coaching practice: you're responsible for yourself. You can't control what happens to you, but you get to decide whether you're a victim or a survivor, and what story you tell yourself about it. On his most unconventional growth habit, Josh points to slowing down and spending time alone, which he's found more productive than doing the work. Every morning before 6, he meditates, reads scripture and a devotional, works a science-based plan for rewiring his unconscious, and hits what he calls the mental gym, then unwinds and documents what he learned at night. The point is to quiet the noise of endless Zoom calls and social comparison so he can actually hear what he wants and remind himself who he's becoming, because you have to be still to know your purpose, and you have to protect it. It circles back to the quote he'd read that morning, from Jim Rohn: for things to change, you must change; for things to get better, you must get better. This episode explores: Why guarding your finite energy can beat pursuing "justice" you're owed Wishing you'd started sooner instead of climbing someone else's ladder Emulating a great leader up close as the real return on your time Unlearning the "if I miss a step I've failed" sequencing anxiety Why conventional rules can put guardrails on creative problem-solving Why a mentor's roadmap is theirs, and you have to build your own Reading success as a season, not a permanent state Why you can't grow without struggle, and happiness needs contrast "You're responsible for yourself": victim or survivor is a choice Overriding the subconscious 85% with intentional action Catching the story you tell yourself and owning your own part Not dying on hills that aren't even yours Writing down expectations instead of assuming people just know Why you can spark motivation but can't hand someone their hunger Slowing down and going still to hear your own purpose Josh's perspective is a powerful reminder that so much of growth is unlearning: the borrowed roadmaps, the sequencing anxiety, the belief that how things look is how they are. His journey from an 18-year-old following a CEO's advice to a founder who builds businesses and himself on his own terms shows that stillness, self-responsibility, and the humility to keep learning will take you further than anyone else's definitive answer. If you're a founder, leader, or anyone wrestling with someone else's blueprint for success, this conversation offers practical insight, genuine depth, and a refreshing case that for things to get better, you get to be the one who changes. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Joshua Lee, Founder, First Light Studios Focus: Amazon and ecommerce growth agency helping legacy brand owners expand online (Amazon, Walmart.com, social shopping) while protecting their brand Website: https://flstudios.website LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/onejoshualee/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Alec Broadfoot, who leads VisionSpark, a boutique consulting firm that has successfully completed over 200 "number two leader" searches for entrepreneurial companies, many of them running EOS (the Entrepreneurial Operating System), plus dozens of searches for other key team members at a 98 percent placement rate. VisionSpark has landed on the Inc. 5000 list of the fastest-growing companies in the country three years running, in 2023, 2024, and 2025, and Alec is the author of the Amazon number one bestseller Hire Your Right Number 2 Leader. He'd also, given a random stage at the wrong conference, happily talk about the finer points of doubles tennis. In this conversation, Alec challenges a piece of conventional wisdom drilled into most ambitious people early: that success means shoring up your weaknesses and being all things to all people. He learned it doesn't work, because when you pour yourself into your weaknesses, all you get is stronger weaknesses. Lean into your strengths instead and you can actually make a difference. Kim ties it straight to the productivity coaching she does, where people can recite every way they procrastinate but never stop to ask what their process looks like when things go well, the very thing they're naturally good at and could build on instead of hunting for an external fix. His most unconventional growth habit cuts against nearly all standard business advice: he built VisionSpark entirely without debt, bootstrapping it and even buying out his early partner without taking on an equity partner either. That partnership split becomes one of the episode's most useful stories, because it wasn't about anyone being a bad partner. Once they adopted EOS, it surfaced that they simply wanted different things, his partner wanted to go deep as a hands-on consultant with a select few clients, while Alec wanted to help entrepreneurial companies all over the country. Two valid visions, no villain, which is exactly why parting made sense. What he's proudest of is the team and culture he's built, and a reputation as a genuine partner in an industry too often lumped in with used-car salesmen, backed by the raving-fan loyalty a high Net Promoter Score reflects. On imposter syndrome, Alec is honest that it shows up most before he speaks, whether it's a keynote, a workshop, or even his own employees, in the procrastination and self-doubt of the days leading up to it. His fix is to remember the outcome of past talks, how much people valued them and how many decisions they helped, and to open with his why story so the audience meets his heart rather than a pitch. That why story is the origin of the whole company: two decades ago, running a thriving mailing and printing business, he was firing seven out of ten hires until a mentor asked whether he used any data or assessments. He didn't. Once he did, he started retaining seven of ten instead, and the day an assessment perfectly predicted a hire he'd have made on interview charm alone, and then watched it come true, he decided "never again," sold his interest, and eventually founded VisionSpark to help entrepreneurs hire great leaders with science and data instead of gut feel. This episode explores: Why working on your weaknesses just gives you stronger weaknesses Building on strengths, and studying your process when things go well Why an A player at 10-20% more pay is better than free Seeing a great hire as opportunity and ROI, not just expense Questioning the tidy-desk-equals-productivity rule Why a partnership can end over different visions, with no villain Building a partner-level reputation in a distrusted industry What Net Promoter Score really measures: raving fans and trust Owning your own decision delays as a leader and inviting the nudge Beating speaking-day imposter syndrome by remembering past outcomes The assessment that predicted a bad hire and launched VisionSpark Why someone else's roadmap is theirs, and you have to build your own If you're a founder, entrepreneur, or leader wrestling with hiring, growth, or the pressure to follow everyone else's rules, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that the only roadmap worth following is the one you build for yourself. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Alec Broadfoot, CEO & Founder, VisionSpark ("Finding Leaders. Building Teams.") Book: Hire Your Right Number 2 Leader (Amazon #1 bestseller) — available on Amazon Focus: Executive search for entrepreneurial companies, specializing in "number two leader" and key team searches using assessments, data, and process; many clients run EOS Website: https://visionsparksearch.com Meet the team: https://visionsparksearch.com/about/team/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Lara Hamilton, VP of Helpdesk Realty and an IT operations and compliance leader specializing in the multifamily and affordable housing industry. Lara helps property management organizations build secure, reliable technology environments that support growth while making everyday operations simpler. With expertise in platforms like Yardi, RealPage, and AMSI, she's passionate about translating complex topics like cybersecurity and AI into practical, actionable solutions, and she believes technology should empower people rather than complicate their lives. Her own path is anything but traditional: she went from stay-at-home mom and PTA president to the very bottom of the ladder, a wire transfer desk at a bank, and worked her way up to department head without the degrees or certifications most people in her field carry. In this conversation, Lara challenges a piece of conventional wisdom she was explicitly taught was the key to job security: make yourself indispensable. She'd heard that if you're the only one who can do something, no one can ever take your job. She proved it wrong in the most literal way, making her wire transfer role so efficient that she eliminated it, and instead of letting her go, the company saw her value and moved her across departments to make each one better. The real goal, she argues, isn't to be indispensable, it's to be invaluable. Being the sole keeper of any knowledge doesn't protect you, it holds the whole company back, blocks your team's growth, and quietly caps your own. That distinction opens into one of the episode's richest threads, because the trap isn't only for employees. Kim points out that founders and business owners do the exact same thing, becoming the keeper of all the knowledge and then wondering why they're checking email in front of the Mona Lisa on vacation. Lara's frame is memorable: her job, she says, is to have someone who can take her job, because you can't move up unless someone can move up behind you. It takes a healthy sense of self to give that up, since being the person everyone comes to is deeply satisfying, but she calls that busyness what it is, white noise, task-driven motion mistaken for productive work. This episode explores: Why "make yourself indispensable" is the wrong goal, and invaluable is the right one How eliminating her own job through efficiency became a promotion Why hoarding knowledge holds back your team and caps your growth How founders trap themselves as the sole keeper of information "My job is to have someone who can take my job" Distinguishing busy, task-driven white noise from productive work "If I'm the smartest person in the room, I'm in the wrong room" Wanting critical thinkers who question, not yes-people Understanding a leader's process versus copying it exactly Leaving egos at the door while still owning the final call Deciding which problems deserve your attention, not just answering them all "Don't build dependence, build capability" Doing IT with a purpose: keeping roofs over people's heads Reframing "bossy" as opportunist and innovator Beating imposter syndrome by doing it scared, and rewriting the story you tell yourself If you're a leader, career-changer, or anyone who took the nontraditional path, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that your value was never about being the only one who could do it. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Lara Hamilton Focus: IT operations and compliance leader for the multifamily and affordable housing industry; platforms including Yardi, RealPage, and AMSI; cybersecurity and AI made practical Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Scott Wintheiser, CEO and founding partner of Lightburn, a Milwaukee-based digital CX agency he co-founded in 1998. With over 28 years in digital and ecommerce, Scott has founded and sold multiple ecommerce businesses and even had a documentary screened at Sundance. In Lightburn's early days, he built a custom CMS and ecommerce platform from scratch because the tools he needed didn't exist yet. Today his 20-plus-person team helps mid-size organizations, especially manufacturers, with web design, development, CMS strategy, digital marketing, and ecommerce, and his approach is refreshingly straightforward: find the right-size solution, not the most expensive one. In this conversation, Scott challenges the conventional wisdom he heard most in the early days: that you should contract everything out and never carry the cost of employees. On paper it sounded smart, hire freelancers, pay only when you're busy, but it never felt right, and he trusted that instinct over the advice. The same went for the constant pressure to assemble an advisory board or join a CEO roundtable. Those rooms understood business in a general sense, but in the 1990s nobody in them understood the internet or an agency that only built websites, and it took the confidence of a couple of 20-somethings to realize that no outside expert understood their business better than they did. A candid thread is what Scott still wrestles with underneath the 28-year track record. Outsiders assume a company that's lasted this long is automatically, effortlessly profitable, and anyone who's actually run a business knows that isn't how it works. Internally, the honest gap is forecasting: he doesn't pretend to know where the company will be ten years out, and doesn't bother trying, focusing instead on the next two or three years and trusting the rest to take care of itself. His answer to the classic small-agency threat ("my nephew can build a website") is the same one he'd give about AI: it can help, but you wouldn't ignore your lawyer just because Claude can review a contract. This episode explores: Why "contract everything out" was the wrong advice for his business Trusting your own read over the advisory board and CEO roundtable Why 28 years in business doesn't mean automatic profit Focusing on the next two or three years instead of faking a ten-year forecast How AI speeds the tedious work while demanding more understanding, not less "Job-description creep" and getting comfortable being uncomfortable The "AI open skate" and setting clear guardrails for safe experimentation Paying your team as much as possible, even against margin benchmarks Moving from one-and-done builds to a continual-improvement model Why recurring revenue lets you sleep at night If you're a founder, agency owner, or leader figuring out where AI actually fits, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about profit and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that you don't need to clear anyone else's bar to be exactly who your business needs. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Scott Wintheiser, CEO & Founding Partner, Lightburn Focus: Milwaukee-based digital CX agency (co-founded 1998); web design, development, CMS strategy, digital marketing, and ecommerce for mid-size organizations, especially manufacturers; serial ecommerce entrepreneur with a Sundance-screened documentary Website: http://lightburn.co Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Mari V. Bryant, founder and president of HOME Agency, a people-first marketing and branding firm that partners with mission-driven organizations and national brands. With nearly 25 years of experience working with the likes of the Phoenix Suns, the NASCAR Foundation, State Farm, and Blue Cross Blue Shield, Mari is passionate about using marketing to create meaningful impact. She's also a dedicated community advocate and the founder of the Mission Meets Action Award, a $100,000 pro bono initiative supporting nonprofits through strategic marketing and storytelling, now in its second year. Her origin story starts long before any of that: she came to the US from Venezuela at thirteen, alone, to chase a tennis scholarship, living in a house with fifteen-plus other teenagers and calling her mom collect from payphones across two continents. In this conversation, Mari challenges a piece of conventional wisdom she absorbed straight from a lifetime of competition: that success means always chasing the next big thing. Fresh out of a D1 tennis career and into her working life, she treated every job as a stepping stone to the next one, obsessively hunting the following title before she'd fully lived in the one she had. It took years of maturity to see it as the wrong approach. The job you have right now is the right job for right now, and the better move is to be present in it, cultivate the relationships, and do the best work you can rather than always straining toward the horizon. She's clear it's a both/and: two things can be true, that she's never satisfied and that she's genuinely grateful for what's in front of her. Mari and Kim also dig into the nuance underneath outsourcing. You don't need to become a finance expert, but you do need enough knowledge to ask the right questions and keep real accountability in place. Kim sharpens it with a cautionary tale of a client who never asked and got stolen from by a trusted employee, and Mari's takeaway is that asking better questions is one of a founder's primary tools, not just for status updates but for prompts that make the whole team rethink its own approach. She's candid, too, that no one else will ever carry the business the way a founder does at 24/7, which is exactly why the right questions and reminders have to become a regular leadership routine. This episode explores: Why always chasing the next big thing is the wrong way to grow Being present in the job you have instead of straining toward the next one Holding ambition and gratitude as two things that can both be true Focusing on the "who," not the "what": resourcefulness over doing it all Building on your strengths instead of grinding to fix every weakness Why confidence comes from proof, and asking for help isn't failure Outsourcing finance while keeping enough knowledge to ask the right questions Why better questions are a founder's primary tool Protecting an intentional culture as a remote company grows Chasing relationships and the right engagements instead of the money The Mission Meets Action Award and matching nonprofits' exterior to their mission Naming imposter syndrome out loud to release it Wanting validation and the reminder to look at the proof, without dismissal "You always win the game you're playing in your head," so choose it Mari's perspective is a powerful reminder that the strongest founders aren't the ones doing everything themselves, they're the ones who know their strengths, surround themselves with the right people, and ask the questions that move everyone forward. Her journey from a thirteen-year-old calling home collect from a French payphone to the head of a mission-driven agency shows that being resourceful, present, and honest about your gaps isn't a weakness in leadership. It's the whole foundation. If you're a founder, marketer, or leader trying to grow something without losing what makes it yours, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that the right relationships are worth more than the next quick win. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Mari V. Bryant, Founder & President, HOME Agency Focus: People-first marketing and branding for mission-driven organizations and national brands; founder of the Mission Meets Action Award ($100,000 pro bono initiative, applications open August 17) Website: https://www.wearehomeagency.com Instagram: @wearehomeagency LinkedIn (personal): https://www.linkedin.com/in/marivibryant/ LinkedIn (company): https://www.linkedin.com/company/wearehomeagency/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Chelsea Byers, a high-growth operator and C-suite leader who spent years navigating the high-stakes world of education startups, including a growth phase that saw revenues climb to $100 million. But her career wasn't just a series of wins. In her memoir, Course Correct, she pulls back the curtain on what she calls the invisible tax of leadership, from managing clinical depression in the boardroom to navigating infertility and the Me Too era while scaling a company. She describes herself as a human infrastructure builder, focused on how to grow a business without letting the human fabric of the team rip under pressure. Her walk-in song, for the record, would be "Thunder" by Imagine Dragons, for the slow, unmistakable build. In this conversation, Chelsea challenges one of the most limiting pieces of conventional wisdom in business: that a leader has to look a very particular way. Early in her career, watching the tech boom across the water from her Teach For America classroom in Oakland, she counted herself out entirely, because she didn't see herself in the money-first, command-presence, talk-about-yourself archetype she assumed leadership required. Kim connects it to her work with DiSC assessments and the persistent myth that only the demanding, go-go-go style succeeds, when the evidence says every style can lead well. The conventional picture is just that, a picture, not a requirement. On growth and imposter syndrome, Chelsea's advice is refreshingly practical. She's grown most by chasing roles that genuinely interested her instead of climbing toward whatever the next promotion was, because people shine when they follow real enthusiasm. And she treats imposter syndrome not as something to defeat but as a companion to let ride along without letting it hold you back, whether that means picking up work you're curious about or simply asking a senior colleague for fifteen minutes about their career, which almost no one refuses. Being open, she's found, is the very thing that builds trust, because nobody quite trusts the person whose life is always shiny. This episode explores: Why leadership doesn't have to look like the conventional archetype How ruthless middle schoolers teach you that authenticity is table stakes Leading from your real temperament instead of a borrowed persona The invisible tax of masking, and the self-blame that compounds it Why mental health is brain chemistry, not a willpower or circumstance problem Treating health as best effort rather than a skill you can master De-stigmatizing infertility, miscarriage, and the silent grief around them "You're a person too": permission to feel what you feel Why success and struggle are not a binary, and one doesn't cancel the other Letting imposter syndrome ride along without letting it drive Why openness builds more trust than a always-shiny front Chelsea's perspective is a powerful reminder that success and struggle are not opposites, and that the leaders people actually trust are the ones willing to be real about what showing up costs them. Her journey from an Oakland classroom to a $100 million growth story, carried through depression, infertility, and loss, shows that you don't have to have it all figured out to build something meaningful. You just have to stop pretending you do. If you're a leader, operator, or anyone quietly carrying more than you let on at work, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about mental health and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that being valued for all of you, not just the facade, is worth building a career around. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Chelsea Byers Book: Course Correct (memoir) Focus: High-growth operator and C-suite leader in education startups; "human infrastructure" and sustainable team-building LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chelseabyers/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Andriana Shultz Daly, a partner at McGuireWoods in Richmond with more than a decade of experience handling complex commercial and intellectual property litigation across telecommunications, medical devices, finance, transportation, and higher education. Andriana has first-chair jury trial experience and routinely leads matters from pre-litigation strategy through trial. She also brings a rare dual perspective: nearly four years in-house as associate general counsel for a global pharmaceutical company, where she managed a global litigation portfolio that included antitrust class actions, securities class actions, multiple MDLs, and nationwide opioid and products liability matters. That in-house stretch shapes how she leads, how she advises, and how she thinks about complex problem-solving under pressure. And when asked what she'd do without her law license, she lights up: physical therapist, or the owner of a little cafe making banana chocolate chip muffins for her regulars. In this conversation, Andriana challenges two pieces of conventional wisdom she never bought into for a second. The first is "fake it till you make it." She understands it in principle, being confident in your ability to figure out something new, but in practice she's watched people use it to fake experience they don't have, and that's a non-starter for someone who was always curious to learn what she didn't know. The second is checking your personal life at the door. A self-described oversharer, Andriana doesn't want to work with robots, and she doesn't think you can support your team through the good and the bad if everyone pretends their lives vanish the moment they walk in. Andriana and Kim also dig into the rule she'd throw out of the legal profession first: that more time and more billing is always better. It doesn't serve the client paying for it or your own sanity. The real goal is efficiency plus genuine quality. They get practical about billing in real time (living life in six-minute increments, because you can never accurately reconstruct it later and attorneys who wait tend to under-bill), and Andriana shares the piece of advice that shaped her whole approach: don't line up projects like boxcars. Get curious about the client's actual objective, which often isn't the obvious one, and you move from resolving a single issue to being the trusted advisor they call when anything comes up. This episode explores: Why "fake it till you make it" fails when it becomes faking experience Not checking your personal life at the door, and leading by example Boundaries as a two-way street that protects your team's time Why work-life balance is a daily process, not a fixed state Asking "what do I need to make today great?" instead of just reading the calendar Finding peace in the downtime between big cases Why more billing isn't better, and how to bill accurately in real time Don't line up projects like boxcars: understand the client's real objective Moving from task-doer to trusted advisor by grasping the full context Developing associates when the pandemic and AI have changed the apprenticeship Teaching the "why" AI can't provide, and keeping a human in the lead Reframing imposter syndrome by reading your own bio as a stranger would Turning time away into experience gained, and exercise as mental reset Andriana's perspective is a powerful reminder that the best leaders don't demand their teams already know everything, they teach the why, protect people's time, and stay curious about what actually matters to the client in front of them. Her path from private practice to in-house and back shows that the detours aren't lost time, they're perspective you couldn't have gained any other way. If you're a lawyer, leader, or anyone navigating how to grow people in a rapidly shifting profession, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that curiosity and authenticity beat faking it every time. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Andriana Shultz Daly, Partner, McGuireWoods (Richmond) Focus: Complex commercial and intellectual property litigation (patent, trademark, copyright, trade secret); former associate general counsel for a global pharmaceutical company Firm bio: https://www.mcguirewoods.com/people/d/andriana-shultz-daly/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Scott Lackey, author of Wake Up To Die Again, a book that's getting a lot of play. From his earliest memories, Scott wanted to do two things: build a business and live a life full of adventure. He's managed both, and then some. He's a patented inventor, an Army combat veteran, an Ironman, an author, a speaker, a weekly newspaper columnist, a husband and dad, and the chief sales officer of the largest US subsidiary of a global manufacturer, all at the same time. He's the kind of person who plans a 12-day, coast-to-coast race across Nicaragua for fun, and who insists that real adventure isn't the extreme feat itself but anything that makes you come alive. In this conversation, Scott challenges one of the most deeply ingrained beliefs in business and in life: that success is always about addition. More skills, more things, the right car, the right house, the next box checked. He got excellent at living a life of addition, and kept arriving at the end of each acquisition to find an empty space and only himself standing there. The counterintuitive shift that's brought him the most satisfaction over the last 15 years is the opposite: subtraction. Not cutting the good things out of life, but shedding the weight, physical and mental, that we were never meant to carry forward, which is exactly what opens up room to acquire what actually matters. That idea runs straight into a second one at the heart of the episode: subtracting the beliefs that no longer serve you. Scott and Kim agree that the biggest danger to absolute certainty is that when you're sure you're right, there's no room left for anyone else, or for correction. Scott describes a training partner whose views he categorically disagrees with but loves like a brother, because he looks at the man's intent rather than his positions. The through-line is a stance of curiosity, the belief that getting curious about other people is not only healthier but far more fun. This episode explores: Why success framed as constant addition leaves you empty Subtraction as a healthier way to live, physically and mentally Subtracting the beliefs and stories that no longer serve you Why absolute certainty leaves no room for anyone else Leading with curiosity and reading people by their intent Why the magic-bullet promise fails, and self-trust is the real fix Why contemplative time is the prerequisite for trusting yourself Protecting culture as a leader's daily, deliberate work Sending team members to meet customers so they're seen as human Asking employees what they actually want from their careers Beating imposter syndrome by buying things because you want them, not to prove you're enough Scott's perspective is a powerful reminder that a full life often comes from taking away rather than piling on, and that the most important promises you'll ever keep are the ones you make to yourself. His journey from a man who measured himself by his possessions to one who can hold the shiny thing loosely shows that trusting yourself is the real adventure, and that you were already enough before you checked a single box. If you're a founder, leader, or anyone tired of chasing the next thing, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about self-trust and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that the boldest move might be subtraction. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Scott Lackey Book: Wake Up To Die Again: Breaking Who You Became So You Can Be Who You're Meant to Be (published May 14, #1 New Release and #2 on the Best Seller List) — available on Amazon Focus: Chief sales officer, author, speaker, and weekly newspaper columnist; patented inventor, Army combat veteran, and Ironman Website: https://scottlackey.com Keynote speaking (top 10 most-requested topics): https://scottlackey.com/speaking/ Published short stories and media: https://scottlackey.com/published-work/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Chad Van Horn, Esq., founding partner of Van Horn Law Group, P.A., a bankruptcy and debt relief firm headquartered in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, with a growing office presence in his hometown of Pittsburgh. Since founding the firm in 2009, Chad has grown it from himself and one secretary, neither with any real experience, into a 120-person firm that's helped thousands of individuals, families, and businesses navigate financial distress and restore their dignity. A certified specialist in both consumer and business bankruptcy, admitted to practice before the U.S. Supreme Court, he's the author of Everything You Need to Know About Bankruptcy in Florida and The Debt Life, and a professor at the University of Florida. He's also, memorably, "Player 286" on Netflix's Squid Game: The Challenge, where he finished in the top 10 and came within reach of the $4.56 million prize (his best friend on the show, Player 287, won it). In this conversation, Chad challenges a piece of conventional wisdom that traps a lot of small-business owners: that top-line revenue equals success. He tells the story of hitting his big goal, a million dollars in revenue, only for his accountant to deliver the good news alongside the bad, that he'd lost $17,000 that year. It reframed everything. It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep, and for small businesses that bottom-line number matters far more than the headline one. Kim reinforces it with her own coaching experience: owners with nearly identical revenue can pay themselves wildly different amounts, from $80,000 to over a million, depending entirely on how the business is built. On imposter syndrome, Chad is refreshingly plain. He still drives a Vespa to work, doesn't own a car, and sees himself as the same approachable attorney who started the firm. The discomfort shows up in the big-company CEO role he never trained for, as a first-generation lawyer without built-in mentorship, and in the knowledge that at hundreds of filings a month, one small mistake can replicate into 200. His answer is the through-line of the episode: make the decision, keep moving, and learn from it either way. This episode explores: Why top-line revenue is a vanity metric, and net income is what matters The million-dollar year that lost $17,000, and what it taught him Changing your own role as the company grows Moving from operator to business owner, building a firm that runs without you Why keeping the wrong-fit person sends a message to your best people Being slow to hire the right way, not the paralyzed way What the firm really sells: hope, not just legal services The national shortage of bankruptcy attorneys and mentoring the next generation How AI and self-driving cars threaten the hustle economy his clients rely on Benchmarking against the best companies in the world, not just your industry Why "we've always done it that way" is never a good enough answer Leading from humility while still being clearly in charge Beating imposter syndrome by deciding, moving, and learning Chad's perspective is a powerful reminder that running a great business and practicing a profession are two different skills, and that the founders who scale are the ones willing to change their own job description and build something bigger than themselves. His journey from a two-person startup to a 120-person firm, with a detour through a global hit reality show, shows that staying grounded, taking care of your people, and looking outside your own industry are what turn a practice into a legacy. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Chad Van Horn, Esq. Company: Van Horn Law Group, P.A. (Fort Lauderdale, FL, with a growing office in Pittsburgh, PA) Focus: Bankruptcy and debt relief; Chapter 7, Chapter 11, and complex debt restructuring Books: Everything You Need to Know About Bankruptcy in Florida and The Debt Life Also: Professor at the University of Florida; competitor on Netflix's Squid Game: The Challenge Free resources for listeners: Fresh Start Blueprint webinar, a free live training walking through your legal options for financial recovery: https://my.demio.com/ref/zX1PBwOtSAcEpu8Y Free consultation through Let's Fix Debt: https://letsfixdebt.com Free consultation page: https://www.vanhornlawgroup.com/consultation Find Chad online: Website: https://www.vanhornlawgroup.com Instagram: @chadvanhorn_law and @vanhornlawgroup Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Patrick Bell, a doctoral AI researcher and AI transformation advisor who works directly with CEOs to turn AI into measurable business results. His core insight is that most organizations don't struggle with AI because of the technology. They struggle because their leadership systems can't absorb it, so companies end up with activity that looks like progress but fails to deliver real outcomes. Patrick's own path to that thesis is anything but linear: trained as a police officer in Canada, he spent years smuggling Bibles into Eastern Europe during the revolutions, taught English in Japan for 12 years, ran a safari company's marketing in Kenya, and now lives largely out of a single suitcase on the island of Madeira with his wife of 37 years. In this conversation, Patrick challenges a piece of conventional wisdom that costs a lot of founders dearly: build something great and the customers will come. He learned the hard way, several times, that a good product is necessary but rarely sufficient. Distribution, trust, relationships, and timing matter as much or more. So today he's less interested in building things that win by being slightly better and more interested in building things that are simply harder to replace, through ecosystems, network effects, and real defensibility. That leads into one of the sharpest threads of the episode: the false promise of the roadmap. Patrick spent roughly 10,000 hours studying business-growth expert Jay Abraham, eventually building profit-acceleration software used by thousands of coaches. What he learned training hundreds of them personally is that the vast majority, he'd guess 90 percent or more, could run the software and produce a beautiful roadmap but got completely lost when it came time to actually help a client implement, because they'd never grown a business themselves. The tool wasn't the problem. Kim connects it straight to her own mantra: a roadmap only works if you personalize it to the system and to yourself. This episode explores: Why a great product is necessary but rarely sufficient Building for defensibility and network effects, not just being slightly better The false promise of the roadmap, and why the tool isn't enough Why a roadmap only works when you personalize it to yourself Staying curious and importing ideas across cultures and industries Why "AI expert" is nearly meaningless, and expertise is always narrow Why every AI project is really a leadership project The wobbly-bicycle metaphor: AI amplifies every existing weakness The coming backlash against agents that loop instead of helping If you're a CEO, founder, or leader trying to make AI deliver real results instead of just activity, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about decision-making under uncertainty, and a refreshing case that the goal was never more growth. It was leverage, and a life worth living. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Patrick Bell Company: AI Transformation Partners Focus: AI transformation advisory for CEOs; doctoral AI research; leadership and AI adoption Website: https://www.aitransformationpartner.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aitransformationpartners/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Kristy Kim, founder and CEO of TomoCredit, an AI startup based in San Francisco built on a beautifully simple premise: no credit score, no problem. Kristy immigrated to the US from Seoul, South Korea, and after getting rejected from auto loans five times, she turned her own frustration into a company reimagining how creditworthiness gets assessed for the no-file and thin-file population. Her origin story starts even earlier though. She came to the US alone at eleven years old, living with a host family in Portland, Oregon, because she asked to, having decided as a kid that she wanted to see the world and experience a different culture. In this conversation, Kristy challenges a piece of conventional wisdom that shaped her entire early life: work hard and everything will figure itself out. She did exactly that, studied hard, landed a good job, secured the visa, and still hit a wall when she tried to buy a car, because after more than a decade in the country she had no credit history. Nobody had told her the clock needed to start, and she didn't know to ask. Her conclusion is sharper than the platitude she grew up with: don't just work hard, be smart, understand the system, and get the right information, because that matters more than effort alone in a world moving this fast. The episode closes on something quietly radical. Kristy's parents never asked her to achieve anything. They wanted her happy, nearby, playing golf on weekends. Because she felt fully validated at home, she never needed the external kind, and that's what lets her say the work has value regardless of the outcome. As a runner, she puts it this way: you run faster, you run slower, and nobody really knows but you. This episode explores: Why "work hard and it'll work out" isn't enough on its own Being smart about the system, not just diligent within it You don't know what you don't know, and the cost of no one telling you Building a company from the pain you personally experienced Rethinking creditworthiness with alternative data Why anger burns the house down, and how to step away instead Separating self-worth from external validation and business outcomes Just keep showing up, because the value of the work is there either way Kristy's perspective is a powerful reminder that the systems we treat as neutral often just haven't figured out how to see certain people yet. Her journey from an eleven-year-old arriving alone in Oregon to a founder rewriting how credit gets measured shows that the problems worth solving are usually the ones you've lived, and that the message underneath the product matters as much as the product: the system hasn't figured out how to understand you yet, but you are good. If you're a founder, leader, or anyone who's ever been told you don't qualify, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about leadership growth, and a refreshing case that being enough has nothing to do with a score. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Kristy Kim Company: TomoCredit Focus: AI-driven credit assessment using alternative data for no-file and thin-file consumers Find TomoCredit online: Instagram: @tomocredit TikTok: @tomocredit Facebook: @tomocredit YouTube: @tomocredit LinkedIn: @tomocredit Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Dennis Mark Interdonato, a New Jersey realtor with a genuinely out-of-the-box approach to the business. Dennis treats his brand like a business and his business like a brand, and he's big on getting "belly to belly" with everyone he works with. He loves an underdog and will go to bat for anyone who needs him, and after a quarter century in the game he's got a deep well of stories, hard-won experience, and one clear goal: to inspire, motivate, and help people win. He's also, for the record, a nationally ranked Google restaurant reviewer sitting in the top 10 percent of the country, a self-described foodie to the max who walks in unannounced, orders, eats, and reviews, purely for the love of it. In this conversation, Dennis challenges one of the most universal pieces of conventional wisdom in real estate: that every new agent has to "dial for dollars" to build a business. He doesn't like talking on the phone, so instead of forcing himself into a method that didn't fit, he leaned into what he was already good at. With a marketing background and a solid existing following, he built his brand on social media, and six years in, roughly 85 percent of his business comes from it. The bigger lesson isn't "do social media", it's that the one-size-fits-all playbook only works if it fits you. Find a method you can actually execute, then run it consistently, because consistency is undefeated. Dennis and Kim also dig into the gap between the highlight reel and the reality. Everyone assumes he's crushing it because of what he posts, but they don't see the deals it takes to make payroll or the losses he mostly keeps offline. He'll occasionally share a loss, though, because losses humanize you, and Kim adds the coaching frame: if you're sweating a single close, the real problem is a pipeline that isn't robust enough. They range widely from there, into serving instead of selling (the heart of "belly to belly"), why you should push hardest when you're busiest so people remember you when things slow down, the frustration of a saturated industry full of weekend warriors, and a rich exchange on gratitude as something you feel rather than just journal. And on imposter syndrome, Dennis offers a clean reframe: if you're in the room, someone put you there because they believe you belong, so never be afraid to be the least knowledgeable person in the room, because you can only go up from there. This episode explores: Why "dial for dollars" is the wrong method if it isn't you Finding a business-building approach you can actually execute Why consistency is undefeated Leading from the front: boss versus leader, drill sergeant versus squad leader Never getting held hostage by an employee's skill set Owning your documents, passwords, and systems before it's a crisis Why the highlight reel hides what success actually costs Sharing losses to humanize your brand Building a pipeline robust enough that no single deal defines you Dennis's perspective is a powerful reminder that success rarely comes from copying someone else's playbook, it comes from finding the approach that fits who you are and running it relentlessly. His journey from self-described selfish beginner to a service-first realtor who leads from the front shows that the fastest way to grow a business is to stop selling, start giving, and treat the people around you like they matter. If you're a realtor, small-business owner, or leader trying to build something that lasts, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about the gap between image and reality, and a refreshing case that you don't have to do it the conventional way to win. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Dennis Mark Interdonato Focus: New Jersey real estate; out-of-the-box, social-media-driven, service-first branding Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Stephan Bajaio, a CEO, co-founder, and CMO with 20 years of experience in the SEO and digital marketing space. He's helped brands like FedEx, Comcast, and Siemens win in search, and previously co-founded Conductor before starting Vibe Logic, which helps businesses navigate the collision of AI and organic search. Today Stephan helps marketers stop chasing algorithms and start building strategies that actually last. He also, in a moment that captures his whole philosophy, once came face to face with a great white shark in a cage off South Africa, and walked away realizing there's no use panicking, because whatever happens, happens in a split second you can't control anyway. In this conversation, Stephan challenges a piece of conventional wisdom he built his identity around: the drive to be indispensable. In role after role, he was the one who created the system from scratch, and while being indispensable is normal when you're building something, he's come to see the ego trap inside it. A servant leader, he says, should be trying to work himself out of the center of any system he built, making the people around him feel empowered and capable rather than making himself the linchpin. The deeper insight: indispensable doesn't have to mean CEO. The founders he admires most handed off the CEO role to free themselves for the strategy work they actually loved, instead of climbing a ladder that gives them no real dopamine. The episode closes on Stephan's most counterintuitive growth habit: talk the prospect out of it. Most people don't actually know what they want. They've been told the box, the name, the service is what they want, so the consultative move is to understand what they're really solving for, and to be upfront when it doesn't fit. The people he's turned down come back later, with others, saying this is someone I can trust. Either you get their business or you get their trust, and both are worth having. This episode explores: Why chasing indispensability is an ego trap for leaders Working yourself out of the center of the system you built Why "indispensable" doesn't have to mean CEO "You can only control how you respond," and building the tools before you need them Starting with the story you tell yourself, not just the reaction Why "nobody can do it as well as me" is usually a training problem Setting your team up for success instead of blaming underperformance Decision fatigue and managing your calendar around energy, not just time Why our physiology hasn't caught up to our digital inputs Being a survivor who owns their story, not a victim The hidden cost of taking on the wrong-fit client Why saying one thing and doing another erodes trust fastest Building a "gut checker" and radical transparency into your culture Why communication skills, and leadership, can be learned Stephan's perspective is a powerful reminder that the parts of leadership that feel like strength, being indispensable, being the expert, being needed, are often the very things holding your business and your people back. His arc from search strategist to serial founder shows that the healthiest thing you can build is a system that doesn't depend on you, and the most trustworthy thing you can do is tell someone the truth even when it costs you the sale. If you're a founder, marketer, or leader trying to build something that lasts, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about ego and trust, and a refreshing case that you don't have to know it all. You just have to be open to learning it. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Stephan Bajaio Company: Vibe Logic Focus: Helping businesses navigate AI and organic search (SEO/AEO/GEO); previously co-founded Conductor LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanbajaio/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Jason Clark creative leader and marketing strategist with a career spanning more than three decades. Since 1990, Jason has worked at the intersection of design, technology, and storytelling, helping organizations translate complex ideas into clear, compelling brands. He bought into a small ad agency in 2003, bought out his partner, grew the business to 18 employees, and in 2023 almost exactly 20 years later sold and merged it into a larger digital services firm now known as Tectonic, where he serves as chief marketing officer. He's also spent 30-plus years throwing dance music parties, and opens the conversation with a genuinely uncanny story about hunting a rare set of books for years and walking into a Chicago bookstore fifteen minutes after someone sold them across the counter. In this conversation, Jason challenges the piece of conventional wisdom most professionals absorb without question: that you should keep who you really are separate from who you are at work. Early in his career he assumed he'd have to hide the tattoos, sand down the weirdness, keep the LinkedIn profile safely bland. Then his business partner said something that rearranged his thinking if someone won't do business with us because of your tattoos, I don't want to do business with them. The reframe wasn't "be weird and you'll succeed." It was that people want to work with people who are actually interesting, and the real task is finding a way to connect your values to your work rather than performing a version of yourself you can't sustain. Jason and Kim also dig into the myth of the one-size-fits-all playbook. He can trace the line from high schooler to near-retirement at 55, but only backward he had no idea what he was doing moving forward, and the path that got him here won't get anyone else there. If a single program really worked every time, they agree, we'd all be billionaires and they'd teach it in grade school. They talk about mining unlikely life experience for real transferable skill (his rave promotion taught him P&Ls; Kim's volunteer work taught her operations), about the difficult transition from business to enterprise, and about the founders who stay in everyone's way until the stress becomes a health issue. And on imposter syndrome, Jason offers the cleanest antidote in the episode: self-awareness beats omniscience. "I don't know" is a complete sentence. "I'll find out for you" is another. This episode explores: Why keeping your real self out of your work eventually breaks you The tattoo conversation that changed how Jason ran his business Finding a way to align your values with your career without "finding your passion" Why there's no one-size-fits-all path, and every playbook is someone else's Mining unconventional life experience for transferable skills Making the shift from technical skill to leadership skill IQ to EQ Knowing when you need a coach (and when you just need to get out of your own way) Why so much flowing through the founder stunts the whole team The hard transition from business to enterprise Building something that outlasts you, then letting it go Jason's perspective is a powerful reminder that success rarely follows the map you were handed and that the parts of yourself you were told to hide are often the parts that make the work worth doing. His arc from a kid with no money to an agency owner to a CMO shows that money buys choices, but a life spent performing someone else's version of professionalism buys misery. If you're a business owner, creative, or leader stuck in your own way, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about growth and self-awareness, and a refreshing case that the most interesting person in the room is usually the one asking the questions. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Jason Clark Company: Tectonic — Chief Marketing Officer Focus: Design, technology, and brand storytelling Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Kettia Ming entrepreneur, author, business strategist, and nonprofit executive whose work explores resilience, reinvention, and the realities of building a meaningful life and business. Kettia founded and scaled a childcare company in New York City before selling it in a multimillion-dollar acquisition, and now serves as executive director of Black Theatre United, where she leads programs and partnerships designed to expand access and opportunity across the Broadway industry. She's also the founder of The Childcare Collective and Evergreen House Press, and the author of Run the Mile You're In: One Founder's Journey Through Success, Loss & Reinvention. A lifelong runner who has completed 13 marathons, including Boston, she brings the lessons of endurance, identity, and starting again into everything she does and the medals on her wall are less about the finish line than the journey it took to get there. In this conversation, Kettia challenges one of the most reflexive beliefs in business: that success always means growth. Early on, she assumed a successful business meant more locations, more revenue, more employees just more, because that's what the internet tells you. But growth brings complexity, and in a business built on leases and the licensed care of small humans, more can quietly become unsustainable. The better questions, she found, weren't about scale at all: What am I building? Why? And what will it require of me to sustain it? A turning point in Kettia's story arrived the day after the Boston Marathon, on the Amtrak home, when she finally opened a string of emails she'd been ignoring. A Fortune 500 buyer claimed her new center violated a non-compete by 100 feet. She had measured the distance carefully, the way you walk, drive, and run it; they measured it "as the crow flies," a term she'd never encountered, calculated by a surveyor she didn't know existed. With her family's future, home, and the proceeds of her sale all sunk into the new startup, she moved through denial, anger, and fear — then did the opposite of panic. She went completely still, went inward, and focused on one question: how do I get through this in one piece, with my family intact? The episode closes on the tools that keep her steady: walking away from a problem to let the solution surface (wisdom from her late father, who believed every problem already contains its answer if you get quiet enough), and treating imposter syndrome the way she treats the voice of doubt — acknowledge it, refuse to fight it, and don't give it a vote. This episode explores: Why "always grow" is the wrong default — and the better questions to ask Building for sustainability instead of scale for its own sake How owners become employees of their own business — and how to stop Moving forward before you feel confident, because the answers come as you move The 100-feet "as the crow flies" lawsuit and what she couldn't have known Letting go of "I should have known" when you did everything right Going still under pressure instead of spinning out Throwing out the belief that a leader must have all the answers Why psychological safety has to start at the top Leading a multigenerational, multicultural team with a real sense of belonging Walking away from a problem to let the solution find you Asking your subconscious the question before you sleep Working with imposter syndrome instead of against it Kettia's perspective is a powerful reminder that resilience isn't loud sometimes it's the stillness you find when everything's in jeopardy, and the refusal to beat yourself up for what you couldn't have known. Her journey from a basement childcare startup to a Fortune 500 legal fight to a thriving nonprofit shows that you don't have to run all 26 miles at once. You just have to run the mile you're in. If you're an entrepreneur, nonprofit leader, or anyone facing something hard right now, this conversation offers practical wisdom, hard-won honesty about doubt and imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that surviving the worst can leave you stronger than before. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Kettia Ming entrepreneur, author, business strategist, and executive director of Black Theatre United; founder of The Childcare Collective and Evergreen House Press Book: Run the Mile You're In: One Founder's Journey Through Success, Loss & Reinvention Website: https://www.kettiaming.com Find Kettia online: Website: https://www.kettiaming.com Newsletter — Run the Mile You're In on Substack Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kettia/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kettiaming Speaking, podcast, and partnership inquiries: [email protected] — invite Kettia to speak, join your podcast, lead a conversation, or work with your organization around resilience, reinvention, entrepreneurship, leadership, and the business of childcare Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Christian Espinosa best-selling author, cybersecurity entrepreneur, and 24-time Ironman triathlete who built and sold Alpine Security and now leads Blue Goat Cyber, securing medical devices for FDA compliance. A blood clot survivor, Christian shares practical strategies for overcoming adversity, building resilient leadership, and navigating cybersecurity challenges. His books, The Smartest Person in the Room and The In-Between, explore how mindset shifts and emotional intelligence drive success. He's also, it turns out, a qualified Formula Four driver and the conversation opens on the track, where he's learned that slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and brute force only runs you off the road. In this conversation, Christian challenges a piece of conventional wisdom he swallowed whole with his first company: that everybody needs what you sell, so you should sell to everybody. Trying to push fifteen cybersecurity services to every vertical at once, he diluted his brand, diluted his messaging, and landed nowhere. The fix was counterintuitive — say no to fourteen things and go all in on one. At Blue Goat Cyber, doing one thing extremely well brings in far more revenue than chasing everything did. Niche down, know your ideal client, solve one real pain point. Christian and Kim also dig into a leadership habit that separates founders who scale from founders who don't: refusing to be the answer to everything. When his team asks him something he could easily answer, he often points them to the resources instead, because handing over the answer every time keeps people dependent and keeps him the constraint. As Kim frames it, a leader who supplies every answer becomes a slave to the business, unable to unplug, unable to step away, unable to grow the thing past themselves. A successful business, Christian insists, shouldn't need him at all. The two also explore the stories we tell ourselves — the theme of Christian's next book. They trade notes on the power of "I am" statements as identity, the smoker who quits versus the non-smoker who simply is one, and the danger of ignoring the gut voice that already knows. They talk about tuning in rather than tuning out, choosing yourself over reliving old trauma, and doing the inner work so you stop recreating the same circumstance. And when the talk turns to imposter syndrome, Christian offers the most concrete fix of the episode: a bracelet engraved "I belong," worn and read every day until the room he doubted became the room he owned. Change the story, and the conversations change with it. This episode explores: Why "everybody needs it" is a trap — and how niching down grows revenue Unlearning the craving for security to step into entrepreneurship Teaching your team to be resourceful instead of dependent Why a leader who answers everything becomes a slave to the business Tuning in to the gut voice instead of rationalizing it away Choosing yourself over reliving old trauma The stories we tell ourselves, and the power of "I am" statements Interrogating a big reaction before responding to the trigger Doing the inner work so you stop recreating the same situation If you're an entrepreneur, leader, or anyone wrestling with the gap between what you know and what you do, this conversation offers practical insight, honest talk about imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that the story you tell yourself is the one thing you always get to rewrite. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Christian Espinosa Company: Blue Goat Cyber Books: The Smartest Person in the Room and The In-Between (with a new book on the stories we tell ourselves expected early next year) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with John Cousins investor, tech founder, and best-selling author of Corporate Finance ASAP and, remarkably, over 60 other books. John is the founder of MBA ASAP, which has trained more than 30,000 students across 165 countries, along with corporations like Adidas, Apple, General Mills, Kaiser Permanente, Lyft, PayPal, Pinterest, Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen. He's also taught MBA students at universities around the world. Outside of business, he's a lifelong jazz pianist — and the conversation opens with a rich detour into how jazz, for all its improvisation, is built on tight, shared structure.  In this conversation, John challenges one of the deepest lessons school drills into us: that success means never failing. As an engineer turned entrepreneur, he had to unlearn the test-taking mindset entirely.  A turning point in John's story is his slow, deliberate walk away from corporate life. He started as an electrical engineer, studied at MIT, and spent the 1980s at ABC producing Wide World of Sports, World News Tonight, Olympics, and space shuttle launches — a dream job for a guy in his 20s. But he chafed under being told what to do, so he left, got his MBA, and hasn't had a boss since 1988. Over the following decades he shed the parts of business that constrained him — investors, partners, employees, big customers — until he built something he could run solo. Digital downloads and the internet let him reach a global "long tail" of students with no working capital and no accounts receivable. As he puts it, it's a wonderful time to be alive. John and Kim also dig into the gap between what we know and what we actually do — Kim's real fascination as a coach. They explore DISC as a tool for communication and negotiation,And when the talk turns to imposter syndrome, John flips it on its head. Rather than talking himself out of it with credentials, he treats it as a signal of the Dunning-Kruger effect in reverse — proof you know enough to know you don't know everything. His grounded answer to any gap: "I don't know, and I'll find out." Strong convictions, loosely held. This episode explores:  * Why school's "never fail" lesson is the wrong mindset for building anything   * Failing fast and forward as the real engine of entrepreneurship  * How jazz's structure mirrors the constraints inside creative work  * John's decades-long move away from bosses, partners, and investors  * Building a global, solo business on digital downloads and no working capital  * DISC as a tool for better communication and negotiation  * Why revenue growth can be a vanity metric — and simplicity scales   * Reframing imposter syndrome through Dunning-Kruger and Socratic humility John's perspective is a powerful reminder that there's no single recipe for success — only the willingness to fail, adapt, and stay honest about what you don't know. His arc from MIT engineer to boss-free global educator shows that you can build a business shaped entirely around who you actually are, if you're patient enough to let the path reveal itself.  If you're an entrepreneur, creative, lifelong learner, or anyone tired of the "shoulds" that pass for business advice, this conversation offers practical insight, candid honesty about imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that the smartest thing you can say is often "I don't know — let me find out." Connect with me here:  * Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com  * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon  * Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8  * Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast  Guest Details:  * Guest: John Cousins  * Company: MBA ASAP  * Books: Corporate Finance ASAP and 60+ others (including titles on Miles Davis, the Great American Songbook, and focus Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon does something a little different — instead of one guest, she sits down with two: Garrett Sutton and his son, Ted Sutton. Garrett is the founder of Corporate Direct and Sutton Law, an award-winning author of 11 books whose titles have sold over a million copies (including Start Your Own Corporation and Loopholes of Real Estate), an asset protection attorney, and for 25 years the legal architect of business protection in Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad world. For 35+ years, his firm Corporate Direct has helped entrepreneurs, real estate investors, and digital asset investors protect their personal assets in all 50 states — and more recently he founded Tenero.TV and Tenero Productions to make meaningful film. Ted is a partner and asset protection attorney at Corporate Direct, specializing in business formation and the maintenance of corporations and LLCs, and he even helped spearhead work around the new Corporate Transparency Act. The father-son pair share a passion for skiing — Garrett raised Ted on the slopes near their home in Reno, Nevada, at age two, and Ted went on to ski competitively, winning a Nevada state championship in high school. In this conversation, the Suttons challenge a piece of conventional wisdom baked into the legal profession itself: the billable hour. Early in his career, Garrett bristled at the pressure to bill for every minute. When he built his own practice and connected with Robert Kiyosaki, he moved to a flat-fee model — clients know exactly what they'll pay up front, with no anxious guessing about whether a call costs them five minutes or twenty. It's a model that removes friction for the client and, as Kim notes, still rewards Garrett for being efficient with his time. A turning point in the family story is Ted's path to the firm. Garrett and Ted's mother — a doctor — deliberately put no pressure on their kids to follow a professional track. Ted studied mining engineering at the University of Utah, even spending three months at a mine in Chile's Atacama Desert before realizing the remote life wasn't for him. He came to law on his own, drawn not by courtroom glory but by the chance to take over the family business and help the people his father had spent decades serving. It's the quiet engine of the whole episode: a peaceful succession, where Garrett phases out as Ted phases in, mentor and successor side by side. The two also explore the abundance mindset Ted absorbed from his father's world, the constant challenge of finding people with real work ethic, and Garrett's refusal to sell to private equity firms that would squeeze the clients he's served for 20 years. And both have books to show for it — Garrett's eight titles in Kiyosaki's series, plus his newest project, the Sports Heaven: The Birth of ESPN audiobook and documentary about ESPN's founder, available to rent exclusively on Tenero.TV. Ted's debut, Greenback's Book of Law, teaches law basics to parents, kids, and young adults through the eyes of Greenback — a friendly goldendoodle whose owner is Ernie the Attorney — filling the same gap that financial literacy education leaves in schools, with a companion card game on the way. This episode explores: Why the billable hour didn't fit — and how a flat-fee model serves clients better Letting kids find their own path instead of pushing them toward a profession Ted's pivot from mining engineering in the Atacama Desert to law What a peaceful family-business succession actually looks like Why you'll never do just "one thing" as a lawyer — and how you learn on the job The freedom of saying "I'm not your person" and referring work out The Toxic Client lesson: 80% of problems come from 20% of clients Avoiding some mistakes through a mentor — and why some you have to learn by fire The Suttons' perspective is a powerful reminder that success can be built on your own terms — flat fees instead of billable hours, your own path instead of an inherited one, and clients you actually want to serve instead of a quick payday. Their story of a father and son building something durable together shows that the most valuable thing you can pass down isn't a business, but the wisdom of how to run it well. If you're an entrepreneur, professional, family-business owner, or anyone navigating succession, this conversation offers practical insight, candid talk about imposter syndrome, and a refreshing case that doing right by your clients and your people is its own kind of strategy. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guests: Garrett Sutton (Founder/CEO, Corporate Direct; TENERO Host/Founder; Rich Dad Advisor) & Ted Sutton (Partner & Asset Protection Attorney, Corporate Direct) Company: Corporate Direct — https://www.corporatedirect.com Garrett's books: 11 titles including Toxic Client, Start Your Own Corporation, and Loopholes of Real Estate (eight in Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad series) Garrett's latest: Sports Heaven: The Birth of ESPN audiobook and documentary — film available to rent exclusively on Tenero.TV; financial education videos on Tenero's YouTube Ted's book: Greenback's Book of Law (releasing in sync with America's 250th anniversary) — greenbacksbookoflaw.com, with a companion card game coming Find Garrett & Ted online: Facebook — Corporate Direct: https://www.facebook.com/corporatedirect Instagram — Corporate Direct: https://www.instagram.com/corporatedirect/ Instagram — Greenback's Book of Law: https://www.instagram.com/greenbacksbol/ YouTube — TENERO: https://www.youtube.com/@teneroofficial LinkedIn — Garrett Sutton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garrettsutton/ LinkedIn — Ted Sutton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ted-sutton-esq-703493116/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Ryan Drumheller a self-described extroverted IT leader, fractional CIO, and founder of StellarHorn Group, where he helps businesses cut through the noise of technology and AI to drive real, measurable results. With over 20 years of experience in IT and leadership, Ryan is a relentless lifelong learner: two master's degrees, a bachelor's, more than 170 certifications, and doctoral ambitions still on the table. Outside of work, he's into music, sports, and video games and lately, golf. Ryan's path to all those credentials was anything but linear. He flamed out of community college after a year, landed an IT job quickly, and spent his twenties working hard without much of a plan. His parents young, with his dad a corrections officer steered him toward trade school, but Ryan was already taking apart PCs at night and quietly betting that IT was the future. The career epiphany didn't hit until his late twenties, when he looked at the hours he was putting in and thought, it can be different. That's when he went back for his bachelor's, then his master's, and never really stopped. In this conversation, Ryan challenges one of the most rigid beliefs in our culture: that there's one right path high school, straight to college, straight to career and that falling outside it means you won't amount to much. He's living proof otherwise. He and Kim get into how traditional education rewards a single narrow kind of intelligence, and how much talent gets boxed out because it doesn't fit. Ryan aced the technical classes he cared about even student-taught a programming course in high school while checking out of everything else. His bachelor's forced him through courses he found irrelevant; his master's, at a school built around relevant coursework, was night and day. Proof, as Kim puts it, that it can be done differently if we're open to it. Ryan and Kim also dig into the hard, honest math of going out on your own. Faced with a likely steady paycheck versus chasing the dream, Ryan landed on doing both taking the guarantee while building the product in the shadows. Along the way he learned something important about himself: he sells a product he believes in with total confidence, but selling himself as a service always felt like a stumble. The deeper realization is that he works better with people than as a solopreneur and instead of fighting his own nature, he's building something that fits it. Underneath it all, he's candid that imposter syndrome shows up in every phase, and that his answer is the same each time: look at the evidence, and remember that he's always figured it out before. This episode explores: Why the linear path — high school, college, career — isn't the only route to success How a community-college flameout became a 170-certification career Why traditional education rewards one narrow kind of intelligence Using what you're good at to help you learn what's hard The career epiphany: realizing "it can be different" Turning a job loss in the AI wave into a deliberate pivot How a hobby meant to escape technology became the work itself The honest math of a steady paycheck vs. chasing the dream — and doing both Why if you can't sell, you don't have a business Building around your nature instead of fighting it (team player vs. solopreneur) Using AI as a creative thought partner, not a human replacement Why imposter syndrome shows up at every stage — and how evidence pulls you out "You're not a victim, you're a survivor": owning your experience and doing the work Ryan's perspective is a powerful reminder that there's no single timeline for figuring it out — and that the disruptions we don't choose can point us toward the work we're actually built for. His journey from a checked-out high schooler to a credential-stacking CIO building a company around the game he loves shows that you can take the unconventional route and still arrive somewhere that feels like home. If you're a leader, technologist, career-changer, or anyone who took the long way around, this conversation offers practical perspective, hard-won honesty, and a refreshing case that you can pick yourself up, pivot, and keep moving — no cheat codes required. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Ryan Drumheller Company: StellarHorn Group Focus: Fractional CIO services; building golf technology software Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Victoria Woods wealth advisor, trusted advisor to millionaires, and founder and CEO of Chapelwood Financial Services, where she specializes in high-net-worth investment advisory. Victoria has been featured in Newsweek, named one of 100 Women to Know in America in 2023, and is the author of It's All About the Money, Honey. Victoria's story doesn't begin with wealth. It begins with a father who abandoned the family when she was eleven, a stay-at-home mom suddenly raising four kids on $96-a-month rent, and a childhood spent cooking for her siblings on a hot plate. She started babysitting at twelve and quickly went from minding one child to running six at a time. She built a celebrated retail career, walked away from the corporate world at twenty-three, and eventually built three companies over three decades. In this conversation, Victoria challenges one of the most paralyzing beliefs in business: the idea that you have to have all the answers before you're allowed to lead. Early on, she pretended she had it all figured out confident on the outside, "sweat running down my back" on the inside. What she learned was that nobody expects you to know everything, and admitting you don't isn't weakness. The real skill is being clear about who you are and where you're going, then having the nerve to ask for help getting there. A turning point came the night she asked her store manager for a raise she had earned top sales, most departments and was told the money was going to "Lazy Bill" in furniture instead, because Bill was married with children and she was single. By the next morning she was clear: she would never again let someone else decide her worth. It's the moment that crystallized the phrase she still lives by in the absence of courage, do it scared. Much of the episode is a masterclass in asking for what you want. Victoria describes the goal card she created in her fifties her photo, a QR code, and a handful of specific annual goals which she hands to powerful people across the table, then sits back in silence and lets them volunteer how they can help. She writes their names down, names the commitment out loud, and follows up. Even her own business coach was left speechless watching it work. Victoria and Kim also dig into generosity as a discipline rather than a reward "give while you're living" and the lesson that what you give out rarely returns from the direction you sent it, but always returns. They talk about the loneliness of building something that eventually doesn't need you, which is exactly the point: if the company depends on the founder, Victoria says flatly, you don't have a business, you have a hobby. And underneath it all, she's candid that imposter syndrome never fully leaves her answer is the same as always: keep serving, keep moving, and don't take advice from broke people. This episode explores: Why you don't need all the answers to start — and why pretending you do holds you back How a childhood of scarcity became an entrepreneurial education The raise that wasn't, and the "fork in the road" moment that changed everything "In the absence of courage, do it scared" as a working philosophy The goal-card method for asking powerful people for help — and why silence is the secret Why asking for advice is a strength, not a weakness Giving while you're living, and treating generosity as a responsibility That you don't have to be rich to help: a dollar's a dollar Why a business that depends on its founder isn't really a business The bittersweet goal of training your team so well that clients stop needing you Why imposter syndrome can persist at every level of success Speaking to clients in plain English instead of jargon "Don't take advice from broke people" — and how to vet credibility before you listen Victoria's perspective is a powerful reminder that success isn't about arriving with all the answers it's about clarity, courage, and a willingness to keep serving even when you're scared. Her journey from a broken stove and floated checks to one of the most respected women-owned advisory firms in the country shows that you can build real wealth without losing your warmth. If you're an entrepreneur, advisor, leader, or anyone who's ever felt like they don't quite belong in the room, this conversation offers practical tools, hard-won wisdom, and a refreshing case that the bravest thing you can do is ask for what you want and then do the work. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Victoria Woods Company: Chapelwood Financial Services Book: It's All About the Money, Honey (also available as an audiobook) Website: FinancialDiva.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. 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In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Jesse Sells co-founder and chief operating officer of Impact Growth Capital, where he runs the daily operations of a diverse portfolio of properties and companies. With a strong passion for creating meaningful change, Jesse connects strategic vision with concrete results, making sure each project not only hits its goals but lifts up the community and the wider market along the way. Jesse's path was anything but conventional. He grew up poor in rural Oklahoma at times without running water before moving to Texas and joining the military, where he spent his twenties in military intelligence and was picked up by Special Operations. His work in foreign internal defense took him across the Middle East, where he learned Arabic and learned, over countless glasses of tea, how trust actually gets built. After leaving the service, he and his brother pooled roughly $20,000 in life savings and, within a few years, built a portfolio of nearly 1,500 units focused on affordable and workforce housing partnering with nonprofits to bring mental health and community services to the people living in them. In this conversation, Jesse challenges one of the most stubborn beliefs in business: the idea that you have to choose between making money and doing good. Raised to resent wealth — he admits that as a kid he saw a new truck and thought "showoffs" he carried the common stigma that profit and purpose can't share a room. Over time, he came to see that as flat-out wrong. The more he earned, the more he could change: pay for nieces and nephews, fund services, and get a seat at the tables where real decisions get made. As he and Kim put it, you can't shift policy from the outside; you have to be in the room. Jesse and Kim also dig into the limits of conventional success advice — especially the "millionaire in 60 days" promise and the social-media fantasy that one viral moment equals a career. Both push back hard. Real success, Jesse argues, is more available than ever but never overnight, and a candle that burns that bright tends to burn out fast. Much of the episode turns on leadership and the hardest lesson of scaling: letting go. Drawing on the military's clarity about "left and right limits," Jesse explains how he set clear boundaries and then trusted his people to make decisions inside them supporting each one the way they needed, not the way he preferred. Kim adds the piece she sees leaders miss most: it's not just about deciding which decisions belong to whom, it's about the *feelings and identity* wrapped up in handing them over. When a founder's whole sense of self is "I'm the decision-maker," they'll claw the work back no matter how good the system is. Throughout the conversation, Jesse is candid about imposter syndrome, the messiness of "building the plane while flying it," and the quiet discipline behind his growth daily study, daily meditation, and a relentless focus on the 80/20 of what actually moves the needle. His trick for staying grounded in any room, even across from a billionaire: find the human first. This episode explores:  * Why the "money vs. meaning" trade-off is a false choice  * How profits and purpose can reinforce each other rather than compete  * Why real impact requires a seat at the table, not just good intentions  * The Fort Worth bus-stop story and what creativity-plus-legwork really looks like  * Why "overnight success" and viral fame are traps, not strategies  * What the military teaches about leadership that the civilian world often doesn't  * Why your calendar, not your intentions, reveals your real priorities  * How to beat imposter syndrome by finding the human in the room  * Why cultural awareness changes how you lead, sell, and connect If you're an entrepreneur, investor, leader, or business owner trying to grow something that matters without losing yourself in the process, this conversation offers practical insight, hard-won leadership lessons, and a refreshing case that doing well and doing good were never meant to be separate. Connect with me here:  * Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com  * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon  * Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8  * Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details:  * Guest: Jesse Sells  * Company: Impact Growth Capital  * Focus: Affordable housing, infrastructure, and AI  * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesse-sells/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Ted Fogliani seasoned entrepreneur, executive, and former CEO with more than 25 years of experience founding, scaling, and leading companies across e-commerce, SaaS, manufacturing, logistics, and technology-enabled services. After spending decades building businesses as a bootstrapped entrepreneur, Ted made an unconventional career move: stepping away from the CEO role and joining Whittier Trust, one of the largest privately held multifamily offices on the West Coast. Today, he leverages his entrepreneurial experience to support founders, business owners, and families navigating growth, transition, and long-term wealth planning. In this conversation, Ted challenges one of the most common assumptions in entrepreneurship: that great leaders should hire people who think, work, and solve problems exactly the way they do. Early in his career, Ted believed surrounding himself with people who shared his approach would create consistency and reliability. What he eventually discovered was that hiring replicas of yourself can limit innovation, reduce scalability, and prevent businesses from reaching their full potential. Ted shares how learning to hire complementary talent rather than familiar talent became one of the most important leadership lessons of his career. He explains why successful companies require diverse perspectives, healthy disagreement, and people who bring strengths that leaders themselves may not possess. The conversation also explores succession planning, delegation, and the difficult process of letting go. Ted reflects on how many entrepreneurs unintentionally become bottlenecks in their own businesses by believing they are indispensable. Over time, he learned that one of the greatest responsibilities of leadership is preparing others to eventually replace you — including preparing someone to take over your own role. Drawing from decades of experience building companies, Ted candidly discusses mistakes he made around hiring, over-titling employees, underinvesting in top talent, and holding onto responsibilities longer than he should have. He explains why many of the lessons that created the most value in his career came not from success, but from failure. One of the most unconventional aspects of Ted's story is his decision to step away from the CEO title after years of leading organizations. While many leaders view career progression as a constant climb upward, Ted found fulfillment in choosing a role that allowed him to contribute without carrying the full weight and responsibility of running an entire company. He shares why leadership is not always about status, titles, or control — and how letting go of ego can create new opportunities for growth. Throughout the episode, Ted and Kim discuss resilience, adaptability, and the reality that no leader truly has everything figured out. Whether managing growing businesses, navigating career transitions, raising four children — including triplets — or recovering from major business setbacks, Ted emphasizes the importance of focusing on solutions rather than dwelling on problems. The conversation also dives into mentorship, networking, and the value of transparency. Ted explains why some of the most meaningful advice he can offer today comes from the mistakes he made rather than the successes he achieved. By openly sharing failures, challenges, and hard-earned lessons, leaders create opportunities for others to learn without repeating the same costly mistakes.   This episode explores: - How diverse perspectives drive innovation and scalability - The dangers of believing you're indispensable to your business - How delegation creates stronger organizations and stronger leaders - Why leaders should actively develop people who can replace them - The hidden costs of hiring only who you can afford instead of who you need - How over-titling employees can create long-term organizational challenges - The leadership lessons Ted learned from decades of entrepreneurship - Why many of the most valuable business lessons come from failure - The realities of transitioning out of a CEO role - How to separate personal identity from professional titles - Why ego often becomes a barrier to leadership growth - The role of mentorship and peer networks during difficult transitions Ted's perspective is a powerful reminder that leadership is not about having all the answers. It is about creating environments where others can succeed, learning from mistakes, remaining adaptable, and having the courage to evolve as circumstances change. His journey demonstrates that true leadership often requires letting go of control, embracing humility, and recognizing that growth comes from both success and failure. If you're an entrepreneur, founder, executive, business owner, or leader navigating growth, succession planning, team development, career transitions, or personal reinvention, this conversation is packed with practical insights, leadership lessons, and hard-earned wisdom from decades in the trenches. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast  Guest Details: Guest: Ted Fogliani Company: Whittier Trust LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tedfogliani/?isSelfProfile=false Website: https://www.whittiertrust.com/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, I sit down with Kristine Kilty — Creative Fashion Director & Luxury Brand Consultant, author, and founder of The Fierce Group. With more than 15 years of international experience across luxury fashion, haute couture, and high jewelry, Kristine has worked with some of the world's most prestigious brands, including Chanel, Dior, and Chaumet. Her career has spanned editorial and campaign direction for leading publications, including Vogue and Harper’s Bazaar, while styling high-profile talent such as Lewis Hamilton, Greta Gerwig, Nick Jonas, and Boy George. Today, she helps luxury brands refine their visual identity while also mentoring the next generation of fashion stylists through her consulting work and writing. In this conversation, Kristine challenges one of the most widely accepted beliefs in business and entrepreneurship: the idea that success requires endless hustle, grinding, and constant busyness. Early in her career, she embraced the traditional mindset that working harder and longer would naturally lead to greater results. Over time, however, she discovered that clarity, focus, and intentional action often create far greater outcomes than relentless effort. A life-changing turning point came when Kristine suffered a serious concussion during the pandemic, forcing her to spend months recovering with limited ability to work. Unable to maintain her usual pace, she focused only on the highest-impact activities while prioritizing rest, visualization, and nervous system regulation. Surprisingly, that period became one of the most financially successful seasons of her career, completely reshaping how she viewed productivity and achievement. Kristine explains why many entrepreneurs unknowingly operate from a dysregulated nervous system, confusing busyness with effectiveness. She shares how slowing down, creating space for reflection, and focusing on a few meaningful priorities each day transformed both her business results and her quality of life. Throughout the episode, Kim and Kristine explore the relationship between self-care and performance, discussing why activities often viewed as "non-productive" can actually become the foundation for sustainable success. Kristine argues that entrepreneurs frequently underestimate the importance of recovery, restoration, and personal well-being, even though these factors directly influence decision-making, creativity, and leadership. The conversation also explores visibility, authenticity, and the pressure business owners face in the age of social media. Kristine candidly discusses her ongoing struggle to balance meaningful content creation with the constant demands of online platforms, while remaining true to her values and strengths. This episode explores: Why hustle culture is often mistaken for productivity How clarity and focus can outperform hard work alone The connection between nervous system regulation and business success What a serious concussion taught Kristine about leadership and performance Why doing less can sometimes create better results The power of identifying the few actions that truly move a business forward How entrepreneurs can avoid confusing busyness with effectiveness The importance of rest, recovery, and self-care for high performers Why great leaders create space for different perspectives and voices How flexibility and adaptability help creative professionals thrive The lessons fashion and luxury branding can teach about leadership Why entrepreneurs should focus on progress rather than perfection How scheduling priorities intentionally can create greater freedom and results   Kristine's perspective is a powerful reminder that success does not always come from doing more. Sometimes it comes from slowing down, focusing on what truly matters, trusting your intuition, and creating space to think clearly. Her journey demonstrates that productivity is not measured by how busy you are, but by how intentionally you use your time, energy, and attention. If you're an entrepreneur, creative professional, leader, or business owner looking to build sustainable success without sacrificing your well-being, this conversation offers practical insights, powerful mindset shifts, and a refreshing alternative to conventional ideas about achievement.Connect With Me Here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=PodcastKristine Notes & Links I’ve just released my new book Fashion Stylist - Seven Proven Steps to Build a Banging Portfolio, a Powerful Network, and Make Shit Happen*. Available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Walmart and online retailers worldwide. Press kit (bio + press release): https://subscribepage.io/Og7NPb Amazon purchase link: https://mybook.to/FashionStylist Website: https://www.kristinekilty.co.uk/ Consulting agency: https://www.fierce-group.com/ Jewellery brand: https://frequencyparisibiza.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kristinekilty/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristine-kilty-b6b35a54/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Melina Mattos entrepreneur, founder of BRABO, and CEO of Alchemy Imports, a company dedicated to bringing the rich heritage of Brazilian spirits to the global market. Through BRABO, Melina is helping introduce audiences to cachaça, Brazil’s iconic sugarcane spirit, while educating consumers on its cultural history, craftsmanship, and role in modern cocktail culture. As a founder operating in a highly competitive, male-dominated beverage industry, she has built her brand at the intersection of storytelling, authenticity, and global product education. In this conversation, Melina shares her unconventional journey as both a business leader and a deeply intuitive thinker. She opens up about how she moved from trying to fit into traditional expectations to fully embracing her individuality as an entrepreneur even when it didn’t align with conventional norms of professionalism or leadership. One of the most defining threads in Melina story is her shift away from the idea of “fake it till you make it.” Instead, she argues that authenticity and humility build far more trust than curated personas ever could. Early in her career, she realized that pretending to know things she didn’t only created distance while honesty, even in moments of vulnerability, helped her build stronger relationships and credibility in high-level business environments. Throughout the episode, she and Kim explore the balance between intuition and knowledge in modern leadership. Melina challenges the traditional belief that success is purely driven by accumulated information, arguing instead that intuition especially in fast-moving entrepreneurial environments is becoming one of the most important leadership tools. Melina further opens up about building her brand in the beverage industry, from discovering cachaça through personal experience to recognizing its growing potential in the U.S. market. She shares how BRABO was born from both intuition and market opportunity, and how she is working to position cachaça as the next globally recognized spirit alongside tequila, bourbon, and vodka. Beyond business strategy, the conversation also explores identity, relationships, and personal growth. Melina discusses the importance of surrounding yourself with people who match your growth trajectory, even if that means letting go of long-standing friendships or spending significant time alone to evolve. For her, solitude is not isolation it is a tool for recalibration, self-improvement, and alignment. This episode explores: * Why authenticity outperforms “fake it till you make it” in modern entrepreneurship * How Milena built confidence by embracing vulnerability in high-level business settings * The role of intuition versus knowledge in leadership decision-making * The origins of BRABO and the cultural story behind cachaça * How Milena identified opportunity in a fast-growing spirits category * Why cachaça may become the next globally dominant spirit category * The importance of delegation and trusting teams in scaling a business * How spending time alone can elevate personal growth and energy * How focusing on what you want to expand shapes your reality and outcomes Melina's perspective is a reminder that entrepreneurship is not just about strategy or execution it is also about self-awareness, intuition, and the courage to lead in a way that feels aligned rather than performative. Her journey illustrates how success can be built by trusting yourself, embracing uncertainty, and staying grounded in who you are while building something bigger than yourself. If you're an entrepreneur, founder, or leader navigating identity, growth, or industry disruption, this conversation offers a powerful blend of mindset shifts, leadership insight, and real-world business building. Connect with me here: * Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon * Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 * Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast   Guest Details: * Guest: Milena Matos* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melinamattosusa?utm_source=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios*  instagram: @melina_mattos / @drinkbrabo * Company: Alchemy Imports* Brand: BRABO Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, i sit down with Kerri Burns CEO of Santa Barbara Humane and a nationally recognized animal welfare leader with more than 27 years of experience transforming how communities care for animals and the people who love them. Kerri shares a grounded, deeply honest, and highly practical perspective on leadership in the nonprofit world, opening up about what it really takes to scale an organization, build infrastructure from scratch, and lead through uncertainty, burnout, and rapid growth. From starting her role at Santa Barbara Humane with no systems, no software, and minimal structure, to helping transform the organization into a countywide leader in animal welfare, Kerri’s journey is a case study in vision, execution, and relentless adaptability. She also reflects on the emotional and operational complexity of rebuilding teams, leading through COVID, and launching a multi-million-dollar capital campaign to build a new state-of-the-art campus. At the heart of the conversation is Kerri’s unconventional leadership philosophy one that rejects rigid “boss culture” in favor of empowerment, trust, and shared ownership. She explains why traditional rules like “be early, stay late” don’t align with sustainable performance, and why understanding energy, communication, and human capacity matters far more than hours worked. Beyond systems and strategy, she brings a deeply human perspective to leadership discussing imposter syndrome, the pressure leaders feel to have all the answers, and the strength it takes to say “I don’t know” or “this isn’t mine to solve.” We explore: - Why “be early, stay late” is outdated leadership advice - How to build high performance around energy, not hours - The importance of trust, communication, and team empowerment - Why leaders should not be the center of every decision - Rebuilding an organization from zero systems to full infrastructure - Scaling Santa Barbara Humane through mergers, COVID, and rapid growth - What it really takes to lead a multi-million-dollar capital campaign Kerri’s story is a powerful reminder that modern leadership is not about control it’s about clarity, trust, and building systems that allow people and missions to thrive without dependence on a single leader. By staying connected to the work, empowering others to lead, and continuously aligning decisions with mission and community needs, she shows that sustainable impact comes from building organizations that can run and grow without ego at the center. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Kerri Burns is CEO of Santa Barbara Humane and a nationally recognized animal welfare leader with more than 27 years of experience advancing the well-being of animals and the people who love them. Since joining Santa Barbara Humane in 2018, she has transformed the organization into a countywide leader in animal welfare, driving growth, leading a major merger, and expanding access to veterinary care, training, and essential services for thousands of pets and families across Santa Barbara County. She has held senior leadership roles across major humane organizations in the United States, including Tree House Humane Society in Chicago, Pet Alliance of Greater Orlando, and American Humane’s animal emergency response programs. Her work spans disaster response, nonprofit transformation, and large-scale organizational leadership. Her leadership has earned national recognition, including the American Humane Dennis White Award, and she was named one of Pacific Coast Business Times’ Top 50 Women in Business in 2025. Beyond her professional work, Kerri is passionate about the natural world and enjoys sailing, hiking, traveling with her family, golfing, and fostering shelter animals. Links: Santa Barbara Humane: https://sbhumane.org Gala: https://sbhumane.org/gala2026/ Donations: http://sbhumane.org/give LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerrib/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Charlie Sharp a property investor, estate agency owner, and property tech consultant who specializes in unlocking value from underperforming residential assets across London and the Southwest. With a background in prime Central London estate agency, Charlie has built and led teams focused on helping both established and aspiring property owners maximize the potential of residential real estate. Through his work, he combines hands-on market experience with a practical understanding of how technology and strategy can transform underperforming property assets into high-value opportunities. In this conversation, Charlie shares how one of his earliest “conventional wisdom” beliefs that climbing the corporate ladder is the only path to success ultimately led him to a moment of realization that success on paper does not always equal fulfillment in life. After rising quickly through the ranks in a competitive Central London agency, he discovered that the top of the corporate structure still left him feeling constrained creatively and professionally. He explains how this experience reshaped his thinking around autonomy, ownership, and building a career where you are in control of your own direction rather than dependent on corporate systems or external validation. Charlie also reflects on how modern shifts in business, including AI and workforce disruption, are accelerating the need for individuals to take ownership of their careers and develop their own value-driven paths. Throughout the episode, Charlie and Kim explore the realities of sales, leadership, and communication in business. Charlie emphasizes that sales is not just a function of business — it is the foundation of every successful venture — and highlights how many entrepreneurs underestimate its importance when starting out. He also discusses the critical role of “why” in sustaining motivation through the challenges of entrepreneurship and early-stage business building. They also unpack modern hiring and leadership challenges, including delegation, team building, and the emotional difficulty of letting people go when a business evolves. Charlie reflects on how over-hiring can create inefficiency and how early-stage founders often learn the hard way that smaller, more effective teams can outperform larger, less focused ones. Finally, Charlie opens up about imposter syndrome and how it can actually serve as a useful signal rather than a weakness. Instead of trying to eliminate it, he explains how he uses it as a cue to listen more, ask better questions, and build stronger relationships — particularly in high-stakes environments where expertise and perception may differ. This episode explores: - Why climbing the corporate ladder doesn’t always lead to fulfillment - How challenging clients respectfully builds long-term trust - The hidden challenges of hiring, delegation, and team structure - Why smaller, focused teams can outperform larger ones - How emotional decision-making impacts hiring and firing decisions - Why personal touch still matters in an increasingly automated world - How AI and automation are reshaping business communication - Why imposter syndrome can be used as a strategic signal rather than a weakness Charlie’s perspective is a reminder that building a successful business is not just about strategy or structure it’s about judgment, communication, emotional intelligence, and the willingness to continuously rethink what success actually means. If you’re a founder, entrepreneur, or business leader navigating growth, hiring decisions, or your own relationship with success and identity, this conversation offers grounded, practical insights from someone who has lived through both corporate scale and entrepreneurial independence. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Charlie SharpTikTok: CharlieSharpPropertyInstagram: HuntersSherborne Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom , Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Jason Wong a serial entrepreneur, manufacturing innovator, and the CEO of Packing Duck, a company specializing in customized packaging solutions for high-growth consumer brands. Having built multiple businesses across marketing, e-commerce, and manufacturing, Jason combines entrepreneurial creativity with deep operational expertise. From scaling packaging solutions for major consumer brands to building and exiting successful companies, he has spent the last decade learning how to navigate growth, leadership, hiring, and operational complexity in highly competitive industries. In this conversation, Jason shares why one of the biggest mistakes entrepreneurs make early on is trying to imitate larger companies instead of building strategies that fit their current stage of growth. Reflecting on his early business experiences, he explains how copying billion-dollar companies led to costly mistakes and why smaller businesses must learn to think differently, move faster, and operate more intentionally. Jason also dives into the realities of entrepreneurship as an immigrant founder, discussing the pressure of cultural expectations, the challenge of creating unconventional career paths, and why building businesses often requires going against traditional definitions of success. He reflects on growing up in a culture where prestigious careers and big-name institutions were prioritized, while entrepreneurship was viewed as uncertain and unconventional. Throughout the episode, Jason offers a refreshing perspective on leadership, people management, and company culture. He explains why leadership is rarely black and white, why understanding context matters when managing people, and how giving employees room to grow can sometimes unlock extraordinary results. Beyond business strategy, Jason also reflects on hiring, accountability, persistence, imposter syndrome, and the importance of creating standards that shape company culture from the top down. This episode explores:  * Why copying large companies can hurt small businesses and startups  * The lessons Jason learned from costly early entrepreneurial mistakes  * How immigrant and cultural expectations shaped his career journey  * Why entrepreneurship often requires going against conventional paths  * The realities of bootstrapping businesses without outside investors  * Why leadership and people management are rarely black and white  * The importance of hiring for mindset, organization, and adaptability  * How strong leadership standards influence company culture  * Why accountability must start with leadership  * The challenges of building and managing high-performing teams  * Why persistence and relentless follow-up create opportunities  * Jason’s perspective on imposter syndrome and entrepreneurial comparison  Jason’s perspective is a powerful reminder that entrepreneurship and leadership are not about following conventional paths or trying to copy what everyone else is doing they’re about resilience, adaptability, persistence, and having the courage to create opportunities for yourself. If you’re an entrepreneur, founder, executive, or leader navigating growth, hiring challenges, company culture, entrepreneurship, or self-doubt, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom, mindset shifts, and real-world business insights. Connect with me here:  * Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon  * Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8  * Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details:  *Guest: Jason Wong  *Company: Packing Duck Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Moti Elkaim a fundraising and storytelling strategist who helps startup founders turn bold visions into investor-backed companies. As the creator of the Pitch Cycle method, Moti has helped startup leaders raise millions across seed, Series A, and growth stages. A former CMO who helped scale companies to more than $200 million in sales, Moti is also a former public speaking lecturer at Columbia University, a top writer on startups and fundraising, and the host of the How to Sell Your Vision podcast. In this conversation, Moti shares why one of the biggest mistakes leaders and entrepreneurs make is judging situations too quickly instead of asking deeper questions. Using a powerful story about a little girl holding two apples, he explains how assumptions, bias, and emotional reactions can distort leadership decisions and damage relationships before we fully understand what’s actually happening. Moti also dives into the psychology of entrepreneurship, fundraising, and self-worth explaining why founders often underestimate the value they bring to the table when facing investors, clients, or high-level executives. He discusses how entrepreneurs can stop overcompensating, stop trying to impress everyone, and instead learn to trust the value of their own lived experiences and expertise. Throughout the episode, Moti offers a refreshing and highly unconventional perspective on imposter syndrome. Rather than trying to eliminate it, he reframes it as a natural part of growth, explaining that stepping into rooms where you don’t yet fully belong is often exactly how transformation happens. Beyond fundraising strategy, Moti also reflects on authenticity, leadership psychology, storytelling, AI, and why founders must learn to communicate their vision with confidence, clarity, and emotional intelligence. This episode explores:  * Why leaders should ask more questions before making assumptions  * How entrepreneurs can stop overcompensating and trying to impress everyone  * Why every business relationship is an equal exchange of value  * Moti’s unconventional perspective on imposter syndrome  * Why growth often requires stepping into rooms where you feel uncomfortable  * How authenticity creates stronger leadership and business relationships  * Why lived experience matters more than credentials alone  * How AI can help founders organize ideas, systems, and workflows  * The importance of communicating ideas in ways that match how your brain works Moti’s perspective is a powerful reminder that leadership and entrepreneurship are not about pretending to have all the answers they’re about curiosity, resilience, authenticity, and having the courage to grow into the next version of yourself. Connect with me here:  * Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com  * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon  * Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8  * Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details:  * Guest: Moti Elkaim  * Podcast: How to Sell Your Vision  * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moti-elkaim/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Natasha Paddock CEO of the COPE Family Support Center and a mission-driven leader with a background in social work, psychology, and public service leadership. Natasha has spent her career working across government and nonprofit systems, including leadership roles in homelessness and community services across the Bay Area. Today, she leads COPE Family Support Center, where she and her team focus on strengthening family relationships through counseling, parent education, and community-based support services that help break intergenerational cycles and build healthier foundations for families. In this conversation, Natasha shares a powerful reframe on one of the most common leadership beliefs: that emotion should be removed from decision-making. While many leaders are taught to separate feeling from strategy, Natasha explains why that mindset can actually weaken leadership in human-centered work. Instead, she explores how emotional awareness when understood and managed becomes a source of clarity, compassion, and stronger decision-making. She also reflects on her early start in leadership, stepping into management roles in her early twenties within local government systems. That experience shaped her ability to navigate complexity, lead through crisis, and build systems-level thinking at a young age, while also learning the long-term responsibility of developing others. A major theme throughout the episode is the idea of alignment over balance. Natasha unpacks how leaders often struggle with competing demands from teams, communities, and organizations, and why the real challenge is ensuring your energy matches your values especially when everything feels important. The conversation goes deeper into leadership traps such as the “yes culture,” where high performers overcommit simply because they are capable. Natasha and Kim explore how this pattern can lead to burnout, bottlenecks, and a lack of strategic clarity, especially in mission-driven environments where everything feels urgent and meaningful. Natasha also opens up about unlearning the belief that strong leaders must always have the answers. Instead, she highlights the importance of curiosity, creating space for others to contribute, and building teams that are empowered to think and decide independently — rather than becoming overly dependent on leadership. One of the most reflective parts of the episode centers on imposter syndrome, identity, and transition. Natasha shares how growth often comes with discomfort and a redefinition of self, especially when stepping into new roles or environments. Rather than resisting that discomfort, she explains how leaning into it and reconnecting with lived experience and accomplishments helps leaders stay grounded and confident. Together, Kim and Natasha also explore deeper themes of bias, perspective, and lived experience, including how assumptions about identity, privilege, and workplace expectations shape how people move through the world and how leaders can become more aware of those dynamics. This episode explores: - How emotional intelligence strengthens clarity and decision-making - Why alignment matters more than traditional “work-life balance” - How overcommitment creates bottlenecks and burnout - Why strong leadership is about asking better questions, not having all the answers - The importance of building teams that contribute, not just execute - Why imposter syndrome often appears during growth and transition Natasha’s perspective is a powerful reminder that leadership is not just about systems, strategy, or output it’s about people, awareness, and the ongoing process of becoming more intentional in how we lead and show up. If you’re a leader, executive, or change maker navigating complexity, growth, or personal evolution, this conversation offers grounded insights on how to lead with clarity, empathy, and alignment even in uncertain environments. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Natasha Paddock CEO: COPE Family Support CenterLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natasha-paddock-msw-6278b0a/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Alain Cohen a senior executive, CEO, and transformational leader with more than 20 years of experience in logistics, supply chain consulting, and AI-powered operational excellence. Having led multinational organizations across Europe and beyond, Alon has built a career helping companies scale profitably through innovation, digitization, operational excellence, and strong leadership. Known for combining strategic vision with hands-on execution, he has managed large profit centers, led complex teams, and driven high-stakes business transformations across multiple industries. In this conversation, Alon shares how one of the biggest mindset shifts in his career came from realizing that saying “yes” to every opportunity is not always the path to success. Early in his business development career, he was taught to maximize opportunities by always saying yes advice that initially seemed logical, but later proved to be limiting. Alon explains how learning to say no to the wrong opportunities, toxic business relationships, and short-term wins ultimately created space for stronger partnerships, healthier growth, and better long-term outcomes. He discusses why leaders must prioritize focus, standards, and long-term value creation over immediate financial gains or short-term validation. Throughout the episode, Alon offers a refreshing perspective on leadership, uncertainty, and growth. Rather than trying to eliminate doubt, he shares why embracing uncertainty has become one of his greatest leadership advantages allowing him to make decisions faster, stay adaptable, and continue pushing beyond his comfort zone. Beyond business strategy, Alon also reflects on his leadership philosophy, his transition from corporate executive roles into AI-focused entrepreneurship, and why building robust organizations that can thrive without constant leader involvement is a true sign of leadership maturity. This episode explores: - Why saying yes to everything can become a trap for high achievers - The power of learning when to say no in business and leadership - Why toxic but profitable client relationships often cost more than they give - How short-term wins can sabotage long-term sustainable growth - Why strong leaders don’t need to have all the answers - The importance of creating conditions for collective intelligence within teams - How embracing doubt and uncertainty can improve decision-making Alain perspective is a powerful reminder that leadership is not about certainty, perfection, or having all the answers it’s about building resilience, making intentional decisions, empowering others, and continuing to grow through uncertainty. If you’re a leader, entrepreneur, or executive navigating growth, transformation, operational challenges, or leadership development, this conversation is filled with practical wisdom, mindset shifts, and real-world business lessons. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Guest: Alon Cohen Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/famla/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Laurent Cohen Founder and CEO of Go OBL, a voice-first AI platform helping local businesses never miss customer calls, capture leads, and book appointments automatically. With more than 20 years of entrepreneurial and technical leadership experience across Europe, the United States, and Israel, Laurent has built and scaled multiple businesses across industries including eCommerce, digital marketing, and AI. His journey has been shaped by high growth success, painful setbacks, and hard-earned lessons about resilience, accountability, and leadership. In this conversation, Laurent shares the story of how an unexpected volcanic eruption in Iceland nearly destroyed his thriving eCommerce business by disrupting global shipping during peak holiday season. What initially felt like an “act of God” became one of the most transformative moments of his career, forcing him to confront hard truths about risk, overconfidence, and the importance of personal accountability. Laurent explains why business owners must stop seeing themselves as victims of circumstance and instead take ownership of their blind spots, decisions, and missed opportunities. He shares how rebuilding after crisis ultimately led him to create an even larger and more successful company. Beyond business resilience, Laurent also reflects on how living and building businesses across France, the United States, and Israel shaped his leadership philosophy. He discusses the differences between craftsmanship, efficiency, and urgency and how each culture taught him a different dimension of entrepreneurship. This episode explores: - How a volcanic eruption nearly bankrupted Laurent’s business and changed his mindset forever - Why accountability is one of the most underrated leadership skills - The danger of success making entrepreneurs feel invincible - How setbacks often become the foundation for future breakthroughs - The differences between doing business in France, the U.S., and Israel - Why entrepreneurs must trust their intuition while staying accountable for mistakes - How imposter syndrome can show up even in highly experienced founders - The role meditation played in helping Laurent manage stress, anxiety, and internal pressure - Why AI is widening the gap between those who actively learn and those who get left behind Laurent’s perspective is a powerful reminder that resilience isn’t built when everything is going well it’s built in the moments when things fall apart and you decide what story you’re going to tell yourself next. If you’re an entrepreneur, leader, or business owner navigating uncertainty, setbacks, growth, or AI transformation, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom, mindset shifts, and real world lessons. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Company: Go OBL Website: https://getoblic.com Founder: Laurent Cohen Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Kate Pletcher Founder and CEO of Treehouse Partners, a boutique executive search firm specializing in placing executive talent and helping organizations build stronger leadership teams. Before launching Treehouse Partners 15 years ago, Kate led a successful franchised staffing firm in Los Angeles and served as Director of Global Brand Licensing for Skechers. Her unconventional path into executive recruiting shaped a business model that challenges traditional hiring norms and focuses less on rigid résumés and more on understanding people, culture, and long-term fit. In this conversation, Kate shares how one failed early hire taught her one of the most important lessons in business: sometimes expertise isn’t what makes someone the right fit. Instead, she explains why skills like adaptability, calm under pressure, customer service, and curiosity often outperform technical experience alone. Kate also opens up about entrepreneurship, leadership, and the reality of running and scaling a business while raising a family, volunteering, traveling, and managing the everyday chaos of life. She shares her perspective on letting go of perfection, deciding what truly matters, and giving yourself permission to stop trying to “do it all.” This episode explores: Why hiring for industry expertise alone can backfire How unconventional backgrounds can create stronger businesses What makes Treehouse Partners different from traditional recruiting firms Why cultural fit matters more than checking every box on a job description The myth of “doing it all” and how successful leaders actually prioritize Why leaders shouldn’t follow the outdated rule of “never let them see you sweat” The challenge of growing from founder to CEO and learning to let go Why businesses benefit from broad expertise rather than overly narrow specialization How imposter syndrome still shows up, even for highly accomplished leaders Practical ways to manage self-doubt and build confidence through evidence Kate’s perspective is a refreshing reminder that leadership isn’t about perfection, control, or having all the answers. Often, it’s about self-awareness, trusting your instincts, building the right team, and being willing to rewrite the rules that no longer serve you. If you’re building a business, leading a team, hiring talent, or navigating the messy reality of growth and leadership, this conversation is full of practical wisdom and grounded insights. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Company: Treehouse Partners LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katepletcher/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If your business is growing, but somehow everything still lands back on your desk, it may not be a time management issue — it may be the decisions shaping your leadership. Join my FREE live webinar where I’ll walk you through 3 key decisions that help leaders increase revenue without adding more hours to their schedule. 👉 Save your spot here: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com Stop being the bottleneck. Start leading with more clarity, focus, and freedom. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If your business is growing, but somehow everything still lands back on your desk, it may not be a time management issue — it may be the decisions shaping your leadership. Join my FREE live webinar where I’ll walk you through 3 key decisions that help leaders increase revenue without adding more hours to their schedule. 👉 Save your spot here: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com Stop being the bottleneck. Start leading with more clarity, focus, and freedom. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Leadership doesn’t have to mean carrying everything alone. If your business is growing, but somehow everything still lands back on your desk, it may not be a time management issue — it may be the decisions shaping your leadership. Join my FREE live webinar where I’ll walk you through 3 key decisions that help leaders increase revenue without adding more hours to their schedule. 👉 Save your spot here: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com Stop being the bottleneck. Start leading with more clarity, focus, and freedom. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Patrick McCann — Chief Executive of the City of London Law Society, co-founder of multiple legal diversity initiatives, former Director of Learning at Linklaters, and one of the most visible LGBTQ+ voices in the UK legal sector. Patrick brings an energizing, deeply human perspective to leadership, challenging the rigid conventions often embedded in traditional industries like law. From his early career as a lawyer navigating hierarchical systems that rewarded conformity, to simultaneously teaching aerobics classes for over two decades, Patrick shares how breaking rules, embracing individuality, and prioritizing people over positional power shaped his unconventional path. This conversation explores what leadership really looks like beyond titles, status, and traditional authority. Patrick opens up about navigating anxiety, late-diagnosed ADHD, imposter syndrome (or as he calls it, becoming an “imposter”), and the ways leaders can create environments where people actually feel seen, supported, and able to thrive. Beyond leadership, this episode dives into identity, self-awareness, inclusion, and why the most impactful leaders are often the ones willing to challenge outdated systems while staying grounded in kindness and authenticity.   We explore: - Why “follow the rules” can be some of the worst career advice you ever receive - Patrick’s unexpected journey from lawyer to sought-after aerobics instructor - The hidden class systems and hierarchies inside elite professional environments - Why great leaders focus more on people than titles, profits, or ego - The importance of recognizing and calling out people’s strengths specifically - How anxiety, ADHD, and losing things became part of Patrick’s leadership self-awareness - Why self-doubt can become self-indulgent if left unchecked Patrick’s perspective is a reminder that leadership isn’t about becoming more polished, more hierarchical, or more intimidating — it’s about becoming more yourself, more intentional, and more committed to helping others grow. If you’ve ever questioned traditional leadership models, struggled with self-doubt, or wondered how to succeed without sacrificing authenticity, this episode will leave you both inspired and rethinking what effective leadership actually looks like. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Organization: City of London Law Society LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-mccann-066017207/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Leadership doesn’t have to mean carrying everything alone. If your business is growing, but somehow everything still lands back on your desk, it may not be a time management issue — it may be the decisions shaping your leadership. Join my FREE live webinar where I’ll walk you through 3 key decisions that help leaders increase revenue without adding more hours to their schedule. 👉 Save your spot here: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com Stop being the bottleneck. Start leading with more clarity, focus, and freedom. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Nick Jain — co-founder of Eagle Rock CFO Services, Harvard Business School graduate, former professional investor, and finance leader who has helped scale businesses across trucking, software, and e-commerce to over $100M in revenue. Nick brings a refreshingly analytical and unconventional perspective to leadership, challenging many of the “feel-good” business rules people are often taught early in their careers. From questioning the popular advice to simply “be yourself” as a leader, to explaining why successful businesses should be built through small experiments instead of big all-or-nothing bets, Nick shares practical lessons shaped by years of experience leading finance and operations teams. This conversation dives into the realities of leadership, decision-making, entrepreneurship, and what it looks like to build an AI-native consulting business from the ground up. Nick also opens up about the challenges of sticking to decisions, managing uncertainty, navigating partnership dynamics, and why leadership is often less glamorous and far more methodical than popular culture suggests. Beyond business strategy, Nick shares his thoughts on AI, entrepreneurship, and how math, experimentation, and calm decision-making shape both his work and mindset. We explore: Why the advice to “just be yourself” can actually hurt aspiring leaders Why successful leaders are often more analytical than charismatic The struggle of sticking with decisions after they’ve been made How Nick and his co-founder are building an AI-native advisory firm Why smaller, highly efficient businesses may outperform traditional large firms The realities of co-founder communication, role clarity, and partnership agreements Nick’s perspective is a reminder that leadership isn’t always about confidence, charisma, or bold speeches — often, it’s about clear thinking, thoughtful experimentation, and building systems that let businesses grow smarter. If you’ve ever questioned traditional leadership advice or wondered what modern entrepreneurship really looks like in the AI era, this episode will give you a lot to think about. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Company: Eagle Rock CFO Services Website: https://eaglerockcfo.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickmjain/ If you’re building, leading, or scaling a business — and want a more practical, grounded perspective on leadership, finance, and experimentation-driven growth — this conversation offers both strategy and insight. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Leadership doesn’t have to mean carrying everything alone. If your business is growing, but somehow everything still lands back on your desk, it may not be a time management issue — it may be the decisions shaping your leadership. Join my FREE live webinar where I’ll walk you through 3 key decisions that help leaders increase revenue without adding more hours to their schedule. 👉 Save your spot here: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com Stop being the bottleneck. Start leading with more clarity, focus, and freedom. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Kevin O'Neill — a multi-business owner who has built and scaled several seven-figure lifestyle businesses in the water sports industry. Kevin brings a raw, unfiltered, and refreshingly honest perspective on entrepreneurship, sharing the highs, the failures, and the unconventional path that led him to success. From growing up in Detroit with no connection to boating, to building a thriving water-based business empire, his story challenges the idea that success follows a straight line. He opens up about navigating ADHD, overcoming self-doubt, and learning business the hard way — through experience, mistakes, and relentless curiosity. Kevin also breaks down why blindly following traditional business advice (like over-leveraging or rigid systems too early) can actually hurt your growth. Beyond business, Kevin’s personality shines through — whether it’s raving in his late 40s, traveling the world, or building a life centered around freedom, fun, and family. This conversation dives deep into what it really takes to build something meaningful — and why knowing yourself is the ultimate advantage. We explore: Why “leverage everything” isn’t always smart business advice The reality of imposter syndrome — even at high levels of success Why financial literacy is a skill many entrepreneurs learn too late Building businesses that fund your lifestyle — not consume it The importance of hiring people better than you Why authenticity and self-awareness beat traditional leadership playbooks The power of exploring multiple business models instead of sticking to one lane How confidence is built by being in the room — even when you feel out of place Kevin’s story is proof that there’s no single formula for success. By embracing curiosity, leaning into your strengths, and staying open to opportunity, you can build a life and business that actually works for you — not one dictated by outdated rules. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast Guest Details: Book: Mate to Millionaire (available on Amazon) Website: (Coming soon) KevinAndGregLive.com If you’ve ever felt like you don’t quite fit the “traditional” mold of success — this episode will show you that might actually be your greatest advantage. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Leadership doesn’t have to mean carrying everything alone. If your business is growing, but somehow everything still lands back on your desk, it may not be a time management issue — it may be the decisions shaping your leadership. Join my FREE live webinar where I’ll walk you through 3 key decisions that help leaders increase revenue without adding more hours to their schedule. 👉 Save your spot here: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com Stop being the bottleneck. Start leading with more clarity, focus, and freedom. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Dusty Goldson — CEO of Tectonic, a company he built over 25+ years without outside funding, hype cycles, or chasing trends. Dusty shares a grounded, no-nonsense perspective on leadership and growth, shaped by real-world experience scaling teams, navigating five acquisitions, and building businesses rooted in trust, consistency, and long-term relationships. His approach challenges the idea that success comes from rigid systems or quick wins — instead, he makes the case for clarity, adaptability, and people-first leadership. From rethinking decision-making styles to navigating the messy realities of acquisitions, Dusty opens up about what actually happens behind the scenes of “successful” businesses — including the expectations that don’t match reality, the people challenges leaders often underestimate, and the importance of self-awareness in high-stakes environments. Beyond business strategy, this conversation dives into leadership psychology — from managing impulsiveness and fast thinking, to embracing imposter syndrome as a tool for growth rather than something to avoid. We explore: - Why “bullet point thinking” can limit better decision-making - The hidden challenges behind acquisitions — especially people and culture - Why early success can sometimes create long-term problems - The myth of “we’re all family” in business — and what to believe instead - Why great leaders focus more on people than processes or platforms - The importance of self-awareness and moderating your natural tendencies - Building a culture of accountability — and not tolerating underperformance - Why solving problems (not selling solutions) is the key to long-term success - How imposter syndrome can actually be a healthy and necessary signal - The value of surrounding yourself with people who think differently Dusty’s perspective is a reminder that leadership isn’t about having all the answers — it’s about making decisions, learning fast, and staying honest about the realities of building and scaling a business. If you’ve ever felt the gap between how business is supposed to work and how it actually unfolds in real life — this episode will resonate. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com Guest Details: Company: Tectonic Website: https://teamtectonic.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustygulleson/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Paul Shrater — an entrepreneur who has built and scaled over a dozen companies across e-commerce, manufacturing, third-party logistics, and emerging digital markets. Paul shares a powerful and unconventional take on business growth, challenging the long-standing belief that success comes from focusing on just one thing. Instead, he reveals how staying adaptable, spotting shifts early, and building around opportunity has allowed him to grow multiple successful ventures in parallel. From supplying NASA (yes — even sending fruitcake to space 🚀) to building a 150,000+ square foot operation, Paul’s journey is packed with real-world insights on innovation, leadership, and thinking differently in a rapidly changing world. The conversation dives into the future of entrepreneurship, the evolution of the creator economy, and how AI is reshaping the way businesses operate. Paul also shares his perspective on leadership, authenticity, and why understanding people—not just processes—is the key to building strong teams. If you’ve ever questioned traditional business advice or felt like there might be another way to succeed—this episode will challenge your thinking in the best way possible. We explore: Why “focus on one thing” might be outdated advice How to spot opportunities and pivot before it’s too late The real value of adaptability in modern business How AI is changing research, decision-making, and productivity Why authenticity beats “sales tactics” every time The power of networking and building long-term relationships Understanding different mindsets in leadership (people vs. process) Why success doesn’t look the same for everyone The future of the creator economy—and where it’s heading next Paul’s perspective is a refreshing reminder that there’s no single path to success. By staying curious, adaptable, and open to opportunity, you can build something dynamic, resilient, and uniquely your own—without being boxed in by conventional rules. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=Podcast&utm_medium=paul+D%E2%80%99shreder   Guest Details: Company: https://minimusproducts.biz Fulfillment: https://minimusfulfillment.biz Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Angelo D’Amico, a CEO leading a multimillion-dollar manufacturing company. Angelo brings a rare combination of real-world executive experience and deep thinking, shaped by his background in economics and philosophy. Instead of offering surface-level leadership advice, he challenges the way we think about ambition, pressure, and what success actually costs behind the scenes. This conversation goes beyond the highlight reel of business success and gets into the realities leaders face every day—decisions, trade-offs, and the internal battles that don’t get talked about enough. From navigating high-stakes environments to questioning conventional definitions of success, Angelo offers a thoughtful and honest perspective for anyone building, leading, or striving for more. We explore: The hidden cost of ambition and success How leaders navigate pressure in real business environments Why success isn’t always what it looks like from the outside The role of values in decision-making at the highest levels How philosophy and economics shape better leadership thinking Why there are no easy answers in leadership—only better questions The importance of honest conversations in business and life Rethinking what it means to build a meaningful career Angelo’s perspective is a powerful reminder that leadership isn’t about having all the answers—it’s about being willing to ask better questions, think deeper, and lead with intention in a complex world. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com Guest Details: instagram: https://www.instagram.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com   Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Ken Cox for a conversation that goes way beyond surface-level AI talk. From running massive data systems to doing stand-up comedy, Ken breaks down what most people are missing: → AI can already replace most computer-based tasks → The real risk isn’t AI — it’s blind trust in it → And the biggest skill right now? Learning how to think with AI, not against it But it doesn’t stop there… We get into: – Why “playing” with AI daily might be your biggest advantage – The danger of false confidence in automation – What bombing on stage teaches about growth (and silence 👀) – And a raw, honest look at identity, transformation, and neurodiversity in the workplace This one is different. And yes… you’re in for a wild ride.Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=podcast+Kurt+Uhlir&utm_medium=podcast LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Kurt Uhlir — CMO, growth operator, and a leader who’s helped scale companies through hypergrowth, acquisitions, and even an $880M IPO. But here’s the twist… Kurt challenges the very idea of what leadership is supposed to look like. Conventional wisdom says: 👉 Leaders must always be certain 👉 Growth follows a fixed playbook 👉 Success means scaling fast—no matter what Kurt flips that on its head. He shares why the best leaders don’t pretend to have it all figured out and how that mindset actually unlocks better strategy, stronger teams, and real growth. This conversation dives deep into: • Why “having all the answers” can actually hold you back • The hidden danger of hiring for roles instead of outcomes • How leadership behavior can unintentionally trigger your team • Why decision-making gets harder—not easier—as you grow • The real reason imposter syndrome shows up (even at the top) • How to define your “best yes” and stop chasing everything One of the biggest takeaways?  If you don’t define what success looks like for you, you’ll always feel like you’re falling short. Kurt’s perspective is a powerful reminder that leadership isn’t about control it’s about curiosity, clarity, and the courage to question everything… including yourself. 🎧 If you’re building, leading, or scaling—this is one you don’t want to miss. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com/?utm_source=podcast+Kurt+Uhlir&utm_medium=podcast LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8Guest Details: Website: https://kurtuhlir.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtuhlir/ Other: https://www.youtube.com/c/KurtUhlir Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Unconventional Wisdom About Conventional Wisdom, Kim Miller-Hershon sits down with Joel Miller, co-founder of The Sky Floor, a boutique marketing agency he runs with his identical twin brother. Joel shares a refreshingly honest take on business growth, challenging the “scale or die” mindset that dominates today’s entrepreneurial world. While many chase rapid expansion, Joel and his brother have intentionally built a profitable, $500K+ agency with just two people—proving that success doesn’t have to follow a traditional path. The conversation dives deep into redefining success, pricing your value with confidence, and why hourly billing might be one of the biggest mistakes service-based businesses make. Joel also opens up about imposter syndrome, even after years of success, and the mental frameworks he uses to push through it. From rejecting generic business advice like “niching down” to treating marketing like long-term investing, this episode is packed with practical insights and powerful mindset shifts for entrepreneurs who want to build a business on their own terms. We explore: Why “scale or die” isn’t the only path to success The problem with hourly billing—and what to do instead How to confidently price your services (even when doubt creeps in) Why success looks different for everyone—and how to define it for yourself The truth about imposter syndrome (at every level) Why you don’t have to niche down to grow a successful business Joel’s perspective is a powerful reminder that you don’t have to follow the crowd to succeed. You can build something profitable, sustainable, and aligned—without burnout, without unnecessary complexity, and without sacrificing what matters most. Connect with me here: Website: https://www.kimmillerhershon.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmillerhershon Newsletter: https://link.kimmillerhershon.com/widget/form/aEdmdA1W5MhoMCMfy5O8 webinar: https://webinar.kimmillerhershon.com?utm_source=unconventional+wisdom+episode+58&utm_medium=podcast Guest Details: Website: https://www.theskyfloor.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelelliottmiller/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.