We Know The Rules

SummaryAmy Pu reflects on the conversation she had with Rachel Lee, an Ultimate Frisbee player, and the unique aspects of the sport focusing on the spirit of the game. She discusses about personal growth through sports and highlights how these principles can be applied across all sports and life.

SummaryIn this engaging conversation, Rachel Lee shares her experiences and insights into the world of Ultimate Frisbee, a unique self-officiating sport that emphasises the spirit of the game and inclusivity. Rachel discusses the challenges of confrontation on the field, the dynamics of mixed-gender play, and the importance of community and communication in sports. She reflects on her journey as a player, her cultural background, and the significance of representation in sports, ultimately highlighting how Ultimate Frisbee fosters personal growth and a supportive environment for all players.IntroductionRachel was introduced to Ultimate in 2013, having never played the sport before. Since then, she has represented Great Britain in the under-24 youth division and spent five years playing for a London elite mixed team, Deep Space, winning both National and European Championships with them in 2023.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Ultimate Frisbee and Self-Officiating02:53 The Spirit of the Game: Sportsmanship in Ultimate Frisbee05:56 Collective Scoring and Team Dynamics08:50 The Role of Observers in Higher-Level Tournaments11:34 Communication Skills in Ultimate Frisbee14:29 Rachel's Journey into Ultimate Frisbee17:31 Mixed Gender Dynamics in Ultimate Frisbee20:37 Inclusiveness and Community in Ultimate Frisbee23:05 Cultural Background and Representation in Sports27:53 Finding Community and Representation31:28 The Spirit of the Game in Ultimate Frisbee36:04 Inclusivity in Sports41:45 Challenges in Self-Officiating Sports50:39 Reflections on Personal Growth and Advocacy

SummaryAmy Pu reflects on the inspiring journey of Desislava Bozhilova, the first woman to referee all finals in the Triple Crown Tournament, highlighting gender equality in sports officiating and the importance of support and mentorship.

SummaryIn this episode of We Know the Rules, Desislava Bozhilova shares her inspiring journey as the first female referee to officiate the finals of the Triple Crown Tournament. She discusses the challenges and achievements of her career to date, the importance of representation in sports, and her passion for snooker. Desislava emphasises the supportive community within the snooker world and encourages young girls to pursue their interests in the sport, whether as players or referees.IntroductionDesislava Bozhilova became the first woman to referee all three Triple Crown finals when she was in charge of the World Championship final in 2025. She officiated the finals of the Masters and the UK Championship in 2022, ten years after she passed her exam to become an international referee.Desislava has a Masters degree in Landscape Architecture and creates 3D visualisations of homes. She now also designs and creates her own triangles and other products.

SummaryIn this More Than an Afterthought, Amy Pu reflects on her discussion with Hilary Lissenden, one of her mentors when she was in amateur boxing. She talks about the significance of mentorship, the diverse roles within sports, the courage to pivot in one's career, and the importance of finding joy and maintaining mental health in professional pursuits. Amy emphasises that mentorship should not be limited to gender, and that there are many ways to engage with sports beyond being an athlete. She also highlights the need for self-care and the freedom to make choices in one's career path.

SummaryIn this conversation, Hilary Lissenden discusses the challenges of self-advocacy in for women in amateur boxing and professional settings, particularly when it comes to career advancements and upgrades, from her own personal experience. She reflects on her thirteen-year officiating career, where there were a lot of learning as well as opportunities that helped shape and build her resilience in her professional life. IntroductionHilary Lissenden is Executive Director, Sport Strategy & Growth at the University of East London, prior to which she worked for Sadiq Khan over his first term as Mayor of London, responsible for the successful implementation of Sport Unites – a £10m community sport investment programme.Hilary set up and run London Community Boxing, a charity based in Peckham, and served five years as a director on the Board of England Boxing. Over a 13-year period she worked as a referee and judge, qualifying as an IBA 1* official in 2022. In 2025, she was appointed an independent member of the Steering Group with oversight of World Boxing’s inaugural elite championships in Liverpool.

SummaryIn this More Than an Afterthought, Amy Pu reflected on the challenges and lessons learned from being a referee in sports. She emphasises the importance of recognising human mistakes and the need for authenticity in communication. Through her experiences, she highlights the resilience and strength gained from being vulnerable and encourages girls and women to take up the challenge.

SummaryIn this engaging conversation, Aimee shares her remarkable journey from being a player to becoming a top referee in the world of rugby. She discusses the challenges and lessons learned in her transition, the importance of authenticity and respect in refereeing, and how her diagnosis of autism has shaped her approach to the game. Aimee emphasises the need for inclusivity in rugby and encourages young women to pursue their passion for the sport, highlighting the growth and potential of women's rugby.IntroductionAimee is the first woman to become a professional referee in South Africa and one of three in the world.She's the first SA woman to referee Craven Week, Varsity Cup, Currie Cup, Super Rugby, URC, EPCR and the U20 World Cup. First woman to 40 women’s test matches and is currently on 49 tests after reffing the semi final of the Women’s Rugby World Cup in London in 2025, as well as run touch for 5 men’s international test matches.Aimee refereed at the Rio Olympic Games, Commonwealth Games and in three Women’s Rugby World Cups. She played in one 7’s World Cup, one 15’s World Cup as well as in 3 Touch Rugby World Cups.Outside of rugby, Aimee is a qualified biokineticist with her Masters in Sport Science. She lives in Cape Town with her wife and very busy 2 year old!

SummaryIn this episode of More Than an Afterthought, I reflect on my conversation with Gabbi, highlighting the challenges faced by female referees and the importance of mentorship in sports. Gabbi challenges the notion of visibility in role models and emphasises the need for women to carve their own paths in professional sports. I also share my own experiences in boxing and the significant role of mentors in my career.

SummaryIn this episode of the We Know the Rules podcast, Gabrielle Boateng shares her inspiring journey as a female basketball referee in the UK. She discusses her experiences in officiating, the challenges she faces in a male-dominated sport, and the importance of representation for young girls in sports. Gabrielle emphasises the need for a strong mindset, the significance of self-talk, and the impact of coaching on young athletes. She also highlights the importance of collaboration across sports to address common challenges and create positive change.Chapters00:00:00 Introduction to Gabrielle Boateng00:01:45 Gabrielle's Journey in Basketball Officiating00:04:18 The Excitement of the Super League Cup Final00:06:54 Earning Opportunities in a Male-Dominated Field00:08:58 Challenges Faced as a Female Referee00:13:07 Proving Oneself in Officiating00:17:20 The Emotional Toll of Officiating00:23:04 The Path to Becoming a Referee00:30:17 Paving the Way for Future Generations00:30:58 Honouring a Mentor's Legacy00:34:31 The Joys of Officiating and Traveling00:39:38 Coaching and Inspiring the Next Generation00:43:44 Embracing the Journey in Officiating00:48:29 Advice for Young Women in Sports00:57:19 The Importance of Collaboration in Sports01:00:54 Outro

SummaryIn this More Than an Afterthought, I reflected on what Annika said about her insecurity and how she used it to help herself. I also shared about how I feel about being one of the very few East Asian faces in boxing.

SummaryIn this conversation, Annika, a women's lacrosse umpire, shares her journey into the sport, the differences between men's and women's lacrosse, and the importance of officiating. She discusses her personal growth, the challenges of being an official, and how insecurity can drive improvement. Annika emphasises the significance of mentorship, cultural diversity, and the evolving nature of lacrosse rules. She reflects on her career highlights and aspirations, encouraging young women to pursue officiating as a means of empowerment and confidence-building.Guest Introduction:Being introduced to lacrosse in 2010 and having never heard about the sport before, Annika gained her umpiring licence within the first year of starting to play lacrosse in the Netherlands. She developed her skills umpiring in the Dutch national competition and soon started to travel abroad to tournaments, which led to an invitation to attend her first European Championships in 2015. Her CV now includes four European Championships, and two World Championships (both senior and U20/U21 events). Next to umpiring, she works in the financial sector, with a background in (IT) audit and risk management.  Chapters00:00 Introduction to Women's Lacrosse and Its Differences03:26 Annika's Journey into Lacrosse06:25 Insecurity as a Catalyst for Growth09:23 The Role of an Umpire in Lacrosse12:06 The Dynamics of Officiating a Lacrosse Game15:19 The Evolution of Lacrosse Rules18:17 The Future of Lacrosse in the Olympics21:08 Annika's Achievements and Future Aspirations30:46 The Importance of Mentorship32:21 Reflections on Growth and Change35:23 Emotional Resilience and Coping Mechanisms37:53 The Role of Community in Overcoming Insecurities41:56 Cultural Identity and Its Impact43:57 Navigating Recognition and Professionalism49:34 Career Highlights and Personal Growth53:44 Future Aspirations and Mentorship56:47 Encouragement for Young Women in Lacrosse

SummaryIn this More Than an Afterthought, I reflect on my conversation with Iqra, especially of the moment where she talked about the time when she had to ask for help. I share a personal story about my experience with injury and the lessons learned which could be applied in life.

Guest IntroductionIqra Malik is a 20 year-old football referee who didn't even like the game when she started, but now, it's one of the biggest parts of her life. What began as something new and unfamiliar has turned into something she's genuinely passionate about. Outside of football, she is also a singer-songwriter and pianist. She currently studies Philosophy and Communications at Nottingham Trent University.SummaryIn this conversation, Iqra shares her inspiringjourney from a non-sporty background to becoming a passionate football referee. She discusses her initial reluctance towards sports, her transition into refereeing, and the personal growth she has experienced along the way. Iqra emphasises the importance of mindset, fitness, and community support in her journey, while also addressing the challenges she faces as a female referee in a male-dominated field. She encourages aspiring referees to find their purpose and take the leap into the sport, highlighting the significance of asking forhelp and being vulnerable. Iqra's story is one of resilience, determination, and the pursuit of excellence in the world of football officiating.Chapters00:00 Introduction and Background03:30 Journey into Refereeing05:51 Mindset and Personal Growth08:57 Challenges of Being a Female Referee11:49 Balancing University and Refereeing17:42 Path to Becoming a Referee19:41 Aspirations and Role Models22:51 Refereeing Style and Learning Curve28:28 The Importance of Fitness in Refereeing34:13 Vulnerability and the Power of Asking for Help37:36 Encouragement for Aspiring Female Referees41:22 Community Support in Refereeing45:36 Refereeing Journey: Highs and Lows50:56 Self-Motivation and Inner Strength53:24 Outro: Like, Share and Subscribe!

SummaryIn this More Than an Afterthought episode, I reflected on the experiences of Eva, a trans woman and ice hockey referee, particularly in light of recent rulings affecting transgender athletes in sports. I'd like to highlight the importance of inclusion, the need for open dialogue, and the impact of social media on athletes' experiences. I also emphasised the important of kindness and understanding in the face of misinformation and calls for sports organisations to create a more inclusive environment for all athletes.

Guest IntroductionEva Harrison is a 27-year-old ice hockey referee currently working out in Sweden. She was a former player in the WNIHL elite league in the UK and currently referee a mixture of SDHL and a mixture of Distrikt/Regional hockey in Linköping, Sweden. This is alongside her experience of refereeing internationally. As a player she also experienced all levels of the UK hockey scene (from WNIHL 2 to Elite) as well as being on the GB Universities team program.Summary In this conversation, Eva shares her journey from being aplayer to a referee in hockey, discussing the cultural shifts she experienced moving from the US to the UK and then to Sweden. She highlights the challenges of adapting to Swedish society, the importance of self-belief in refereeing, and the dynamics of being a woman and a transgender individual in the sport. Eva emphasises the need for resilience and inclusion in sports, particularly for aspiring referees, and reflects on her future goals in the field.Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background06:17 Transition from Player to Referee10:37 Challenges and Self-Belief in Refereeing20:44 Gender Dynamics in Sports Refereeing31:28 LGBTQIA+ Representation in Sports40:45 Inclusion and Fairness in Sports50:19 Achievements and Future Aspirations56:30 Advice for Aspiring Referees01:00:33 Please like, share and subscribe to the podcast!

SummaryIn this mini episode, I reflected on my own experiences and insights gained from my conversation with Diana, particularly around being stereotyped in professional settings, personal identity, and the challenges of overthinking. I shared my personal anecdotes, how I navigated moments of being misjudged and the subsequent overthinking, and the importance of bringing self-awareness into play.

Guest IntroductionDiana Drews Milani is a seasoned boxing official with over a decade of experience in both amateur and professional boxing. A former amateur boxer until age 24, she holds a Trainer B license and has been officiating since 2014. She became a licensed Olympic judge and referee before expanding into the professional scene in 2017.Representing SwissBoxing, Diana works with major federations like the WBO, IBF and IBO. She has judged over 300 fights (including 62 title fights and 7 world title bouts) and refereed more than 140 (with 17 title fights and 3 world title fights). Her work has taken her around the globe, officiating in countries such as Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, the UK, Italy, France, Monaco, Slovenia, the Dominican Republic, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Kazakhstan.Episode SummaryIn this conversation, Diana shares her unique journey into the world of boxing, detailing her transition from a passionate boxer to a respected referee. She discusses the challenges she faced as a female official in a male-dominated sport, the importance of preparation, and the memorable moments that have defined her career. Diana emphasises the need for more female representation in officiating and encourages women to pursue their passion in sports, regardless of societal expectations.Episode Chapters00:00:00 Intro to the podcast and guest's introduction to theirsport00:06:52 Finding the space in officiating and the process00:15:19 Career highlight so far00:18:13 Dealing with being stereotyped and receivingcompliments and disrespect00:31:29 The crowd booed and the security came and theimportance of supports around you00:43:20 The mindset and mentality you need to have; it's riskyto put in a female00:50:23 The aspiration for the future00:52:38 The future for female officials in boxing00:58:18 We're human too and reffing from love01:05:31 Advice for those who want to be a referee01:07:47 Outro - please like, share and subscribe