We Love Ugly Data! The Deep Analysis Podcast

The forty-first episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). Alan's back with Matt this month to talk Microsoft Frontier Company, Intelligent Content Loops, and the things that Salesforce thinks are holding back prospective Agentforce customers.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: New Frontier?First up in what is Season 5 Episode 7 (not 6 as Matt says) and via unplanned sandwich chat, is a discussion about the recently announced Microsoft Frontier Company, which isn't going to be selling furs and timber in the 18th century as the name might suggest, but instead consulting services to organizations that need help learning to love Copilot to the extent that Microsoft thinks they should. As Matt says, you could be forgiven for thinking that Microsoft might be taking our Work Intelligence research on board, but it's disappointing that isn't the case once you get into the details. Alan plays his cliché card by (correctly) mentioning "People, Process and Technology," and there's a discussion about how it's a shame the company has forgotten it has SharePoint and Power Automate.Topic 2: Intelligent Content LoopSmall/mini/micro AI models are fashionable again and seemingly being termed "House Models," and Deep Analysis has been rather keen on them and their likely usage in enterprises for a few years, as Matt points out. Alan's been thinking long and hard about how information/knowledge/content management lifecycles need to be rethought in the age where documents are no longer always consumed as documents, but as pieces of information embedded in AI models. The result is the "Intelligent Content Loop", which describes a new lifecycle that is cognisant of its use in AI models (or vector stores for RAG implementations). Alan runs through it phase by phase, and explains that we'll be making it available to subscribers very soon and everyone else after that. So stay tuned. Topic 3: Fear, change and debtMatt attended Salesforce's Agentforce World Tour in London last month and shared some thoughts on what he learned from the experience. Primarily, he wants to discuss the three factors that Salesforce exec Joe Inzerillo cited as reasons customers find Agentforce difficult to swallow. Alan points out that those three - fear founded upon a general uncertainty around the technology, issues of change management, and technical debt - are true not just for Salesforce customers, but for business application customers in general, regardless of platform. As Matt mentions, getting customers to use new technology is indeed the classic "Crossing the Chasm" challenge, and that the technical debt as a result of vibe coding (and all those related issues) needs to be discussed properly in a future pod, but that there's a danger of being caught telling customers that their organization is the primary issue with them not getting AI and agents. The reality is that the primary customers are often those already confident with automation, which doesn't help broaden the reach to parts of organizations that haven't used automation before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf4P_xOW_jU Related Links for Series 5 Episode 7Microsoft Frontier Company: AI engineering that amplifies and protects your intelligence (Microsoft blog post).Matt's rather excited LinkedIn post on the subject.AI Street's "Rise of the House Models" post.Dan's 2023 post on ChatGPT that talks about Small Language Models, his 2024 post about how small models were popping up to be industry-specific (and prevent "hallucinations"), and Matt's post a little while later speculating that unstructured data management might be significantly important here.Matt's blog post from Salesforce's Agentforce World Tour London.Support the show

The fortieth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). This time, it's Matt and Dan for an IDP-focused episode, talking more about new vendor profiles, where all the cash is going in IDP, and how The Pope is contributing to AI governance (sort of).In this month’s episode:Topic 1: New Vendor ProfilesIt's time for another set of vendor profiles from the recently published 6. Last time, Matt and Alan talked about 3 of them; this time, Matt and Dan cover the other 3. First up is Box and Box Extract. Dan explains that the company had made some previous efforts around IDP with Box AI, but then acquired the Polish vendor Alphamoon in 2024, the results of which now appear as Box Extract. As a content management/content intelligence, it's one that Box itself is very excited about; CEO Aaron Levie described it as a "killer app," as Dan noted in a related LinkedIn post. Next up is Indico Data, a specialist in commercial IDP, and Dan discusses how that market focus came about, as well as some details on their technical background. Matt mentions that this market has a bunch of well-understood processes, and that if people are interested, there's a range of other related vendor profiles in the Deep Analysis database that are worth noting. Finally, Retaurus, who didn't come to IDP from a document-processing background but from the messaging EDI space. They've been a big player in messaging and especially fax, which remains an important document exchange format in some industries, for a long time, and have built an IDP platform to help augment their customers, especially in supply chain and logistics.Topic 2: Big money in IDP 🤑Dan wrote back in April about how money is pouring into IDP (pulling some data from his latest IDP Market Analysis), and here explains how the latest iteration of the technology that we're referring to as IDP came about in 2018/19 when significant money started to be invested in vendors like Hyperscience, Instabase, Indico Data, and others. In May this year, another well-backed IDP vendor, Rossum, was acquired by Coupa (they were already lined up as partners), which validated the value of IDP in this case, the spend management industry (Rossum had focused on selling into accounting teams). Reducto - who sounds like it should be fighting Spiderman, but as far as we know, doesn't - is an LLM-native IDP platform that's raised huge Series A and B rounds, that Dan estimates is valued post-money after the latest of these at $600m. Apparently growing revenue at a clip, selling into other AI peers. Matt points out that it's not uncommon to see a lot of peer selling between venture funding companies with investors in common.Topic 3: What's the Pope on about?At the end of May, the Pope got involved in the AI debate by publishing an encyclical titled "MAGNIFICA HUMANITAS; ON SAFEGUARDING THE HUMAN PERSON IN THE TIME OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE," and, being Dan, he decided to discuss this matter with Claude. Matt points out that it was published ahead of Gartner's first MQ on AI Governance, suggesting that where The Pope leads, Gartner follows. In practical terms, Matt and Dan go on to discuss that the primary area of AI governance customers are asking about now is cost control policies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3xAcreasy0 Related Links for Series 5 Episode 6New vendor profiles in a brief blog post: "Six New Reports. No Hype. Just the Good Stuff."Dan's LinkedIn post on Box and Aaron Levie's excited commentary on Box Extract.Investors continue to pour money into IDP - Dan discusses the financial attraction of IDPIDP Leader Rossum is acquired by Coupa - Dan's announcement analysis blog post.How Reducto Became the Fastest-Growing IDP Startup I’ve Ever SeenThe Pope's encyclical on AI and Dan's chat with Claude on this subject.Support the show

The thirty-ninth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). It's Matt and Alan again this month, talking about new vendor profiles, a brand-new report on the AEC industry, and 4 key areas for agentic automation to focus on.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: New Vendor ProfilesIt's time for new vendor profiles, and we've just published 6. In this podcast, Matt and Alan talk about 3 of them (when Dan joins Matt for the June edition, they'll cover the other three). This time, they discuss agentic automation and Hyland's content platform (and how it fits into their new strategy under their new leadership). Then, Papyrus's Owlfie conversation AI approach to automation, and finally, novel AI-led retail process automation from European start-up Duvo (whose profile is available to read for free on its website). The pair also hints at a number of related reports, including a market sizing report soon to come.Topic 2: AEC ReportOn top of those vendor profiles, we've also just released a new report on the AEC (architecture, engineering, and construction) industry and the technological approaches to managing the plethora of complex documents across a wide range of projects undertaken by the industry's piece-parts and processes. There's a blog post that explains the scope of the report both upfront and throughout the discussion. Alan decides that everyone should get access to the report and open-sources it on the fly. Matt also notes that there's a whole wealth of further AEC material to come from Deep Analysis over the next few months.Topic 3: Runtimes and ProcessesLast month you'll remember that Matt and Alan discussed the latest release of the Work Intelligence research and since, Matt has been writing a little about what the near-future looks like the all those runtimes and how agentic platforms start to fit within that future. Here he talks about 2 recent posts: "What if AI gets stuck at the task and never reaches the process?" and "Enterprises don’t need another automation runtime unless you give them an excellent reason". The second of these contains "4 potential points of value" that agentic automaton platforms need to fit in order to add real value: problem-solving, flexibility, inheritance, and fraternity.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQAElcD9k2wRelated Links for Series 5 Episode 5New vendor profiles in a brief blog post: "Six New Reports. No Hype. Just the Good Stuff."....and here's the one on Duvo, which you can read on their website for free right now.Here's the blog post Alan wrote about the AEC report, which you can now also download for free.Matt's 2 blog posts on automation, runtimes, and an agentic future: "What if AI gets stuck at the task and never reaches the process?" and "Enterprises don’t need another automation runtime unless you give them an excellent reason".Finally, here's the blog post that Matt mentions in passing on the "elastic zone of plausibility".Support the show

The thirty-eighth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). It's Matt and Alan this month, celebrating the 3rd birthday of the pod (even if the episode numbers don't exactly add up), talking Salesforce, Work Intelligence and M&A.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: Salesforce Goes HeadlessStarting off, Matt has remembered that it's the 3rd birthday of the pod, with the first episode being uploaded n the 19th April 2023 (just don't ask how come it's episode 38 when the pod has been running for 36 months). Alan has been in San Francisco at Salesforce TDX (the conference for Salesforce developers) and whilst he was there, he wrote a blog post about the announcements and Salesforce's technical progress, most notably the newly announced Headless 360. He explains the change in focus at the conference, from the core audience of Salesforce admins and Apex developers to increasingly opening up to developers that are not coming from a purely Salesforce background, in large part driven by Agentforce and Data 360. Matt points out that Headless 360 is an encapsulation of a technical approach, rather than a product and points to the 60+ MCP servers as the increase in potential complexity - as well as openness - for that extended developer community. Topic 2: Work Intelligence 2026Last month, we released the 4th edition of the Work Intelligence Market Analysis, covering the period 2026-2031 (it's available right away for Deep Analysis subscribers as part of their cache of content, it's also available for non subscribers for one off purchase). If you're not familiar with Work Intelligence, there's a free primer from 2022 that's free to download for everyone. Here Matt summarises some of the content in the report, the projected value of the markets and the other details available in the report. Alan points out that even though the concept is now a few years old, it's now clear that the market is aligning with the basis of the world that we described in that initial report. Matt talks about some of the market growth data and then mentions that he's recently published an addendum to the report, which compares our market projections year-on-year. Finally Matt has some scary information about M&A data that's contained in certain other market reports - not written by Deep Analysis - that we've come across. Then there's some kind of related "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" chat.Topic 3: M&A(&AI)Whilst we're thinking about M&A, Matt has decided to mention one of the many pieces of content that Deep Analysis publishes, but sometimes forget to tell you all about. One such item is the quarterly M&A round up for the unstructured data automation market (i.e. the part of the market in which we specialise); who bought who and what market dynamics can be observed. This is available to all Deep Analysis subscribers, who get to see all the deals; large and small. In passing Alan mentions his blog post celebrating OpenText's new CEO's first day at his desk. Matt and Alan then go on to discuss how difficult to use the web as a reliable research tool (for reaSupport the show

The thirty-seventh episode of the podcast you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts, and in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). Dan's back for an IDP special with Matt this month, focusing on the latest edition of the IDP Market Analysis and discussing this year's top trends.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: Agentic AI Will Transform IDPTo kick off, Dan explains the background to the IDP Market Analysis - now in its fourth edition - and that it provides an overview of how the market is performing and how it's looking towards the future, and, in the process, uncovers trends from both vendors and customers alike. Dan goes on to explain that the increase in the use of agents - now 66% of vendors saying that they are present in their product set - is helping those vendors move beyond being a single part of a pipeline process and to take on larger parts of those processes (and in the process, increase their potential for value generation). Dan also points out that 80% of vendors are now using foundation LLMs in their products; a state of affairs he predicted and is now pleased to be able to point to as a fact.Topic 2: IDP Is the Low-Hanging Fruit for ROIThe second trend from the report is that IDP is ROI gold. Dan points out that people forget the I in IDP really means AI (which has been around much longer than the transformers that underpin LLMs) and also reminds people that IDP's transactional nature makes it well-suited to finding investment models that generate returns. Using data from our 2025 IDP MMI survey, Dan discussed how reducing processing time is the biggest measurement that customers use for IDP project success (51%), with straight-through processing success -  where processes don't require human intervention, the long-time holy grail for IDP - at 47%. Indeed, Dan points out that the simplest way for anyone to find a quick ROI for AI in their organization is to look at IPD projects, especially as Matt points out, transactionally, these processes are often mature, well-understood, and have known cost bases. Finally, Dan points out that there's a potential reckoning coming as true LLM pricing becomes clear once any price discounting or token bundling from the foundation model providers ends. Topic 3: Mo’ Projects? Mo’ IDP!Cheating a little bit as Dan has 4 trends in his report, but we only ever have 3 topics on the pod, Matt's smooshed 2 of them together as "Mo' Projects? Mo' IDP!"; firstly, looking at the apparent boom in IDP projects, first identified within that 2025 MMI research, where that boom is largely made up of replacement projects for previous IDP platforms (legacy beware!). Matt points out that the double-digit growth projected for IDP through the analysis period should be contrasted with general IT inflation running at 5%; it's a strongly growing market segment. The second part of this topic is that there are more IDP vendors than ever; Dan's now managing a database of 500 individual vendors at the time of recording. The report itself has 24% more vendors than the 2024 edition and a number of interesting insights into revenue trends.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_eCUOJUujYRelated Links for Series 5 Episode 3The announcement blog post for the new IDP Market Analysis and the page where the report can be purchased (Deep Analysis customers receive this as part of their annual subscription).Our 2026 Predictions download (in case you missed it).The two-part (free) agents reports: AI Agents: What They Are, How They Work, and Where Organizations Might Best Use Them, and AI Agents Part 2: The Evolution from Single Systems to Complex Process OrchestrationPod Episode Series 4, Episode 9, where Matt and Dan discuss the MMI IDP survey in detail....and here's that MMI which you can download for free from AIIM.Support the show

30 mins of biting the hand that feeds us - demystifying and debunking the enterprise software market. The thirty-sixth (not the thirty-fifth, as Matt says) episode of the podcast you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts, and in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). Matt and Alan are in the chairs, and they catch up on some recent blog posts on how software isn't dead (again), how crazy promises on AI's future are not helping things, and celebrate that Deep Analysis is now in its 10th year of operation.In this month’s episode:Software is Dead. Again.It's been a year, but apparently software is deal again. And only 12 months since it was last dead. Here, Alan and Matt discuss the recent blog post "The 'Death of SaaS' Narrative is a Luxury the Enterprise Cannot Afford" that Alan posted in response to a lot of discussion about how current models for procuring software are over, and also, whilst we were there, software licensing is over too. The reality, of course, is somewhat different, and having discussed this, they touch on Matt's recent post "Beware the promises made by blank sheets of paper," where there are reminders that enterprises are complicated, and also, as a result, some companies are choosing to hold AI at the perimeter to keep things simple.Stupid AI PredictionsNoting that software vendors usually rely on industry analysts to make really dumb predictions, but this time it's Microsoft (again). In an interview with the FT, head of Microsoft AI Mustafa Suleyman suggested that many while-collar roles will be entirely automated by AI in 12 to 18 months. Matt in particularly is very annoyed by this suggestion, describing it as "deeply dishonest", and then explaining why. He also points out that Suleyman's hiring was noted in a previous blog post of his from almost 2 years ago, in which he also suggested watching the "cash at hand" figure for software vendors. That seems to be now attracting a bit more attention. Finally, he also points out that Jad Tarifi of Integral AI has said some equally dumb things, such as that doctors (or lawyers) shouldn't be trained because AI will overtake their knowledge during training.Deep Analysis is (almost) 10Finally, Alan's written about how Deep Analysis is in its 10th year of operation, some of the areas where we've led thinking ahead of the game, and why we do things the way we do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=darqcAv-AgwRelated Links for Series 5 Episode 2Alan's blog post "The 'Death of SaaS' Narrative is a Luxury the Enterprise Cannot Afford".Matt's accompanying blog post: "Beware the promises made by blank sheets of paper."The FT interview with Mustafa Suleyman (subscription required)"Ex–Googler says degrees in law and medicine areSupport the show

The thirty-fifth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). It's a new year and the beginning of series 5 (despite what Matt says in the intro to this episode, because he lost count) and with Matt and Alan in the chairs, they catch-up on some recent blog posts on the need for specificity, not to ignore paper, how there's no new cash in IT and how to make your Information Management skill invaluable in AI projects.In this month’s episode:Specificity & ElephantsAlan's kicked off the new year with a blog post "Navigating 2026: The Demand for Hyper-Specificity and the Persistent Paper Elephant", which is a result of him pondering about 2025 over the festive period. First is the need to continue to focus on the specifics of the outcomes from technology, rather that the technology horizontal markets that might provide them. Focus on the fixes, the bottlenecks in the real world. Second is that there remains a lot more paper in the world that technologists. Our own quantitative research data points not only to a lot of paper being used in processes but also to that amount of paper likely to increase (you can read about this in MMI reports that are available here and here). Matt reminds us that the sole superpower that analysts have is the ability to talk to people.Beyond the walled gardensMatt's published a pair of blog posts; at the tail end of last year "Beyond the walled gardens; can business applications break out to be the ultimate agentic orchestrators?" and just this month a follow-up "The lengthy hikes awaiting AI and automation in 2026". As he starts to update the data model for the 2026 edition of the Work Intelligence Market Analysis, he's pondering how AI-native, business application vendors and existing automation vendors are looking to develop their businesses against an tiny inflation in IT budgets (and big renewal numbers being demanded by the core suppliers). The pair also discuss maybe why there's been a lot of big M&A for security software firms lately.How to not lose the AI opportunityFinally, Alan wrote an Information Management focused blog post in December "How to not lose the opportunity that AI offers Information Management". Here he discusses the ways in which IM needs to inveigle itself into AI projects to be the good stewards of data; "own the data, own the data sourcing, the cleansing pipeline, and the metadata framework for the vector store". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZKtMA72r5A Related Links for Series 5 Episode 1Alan's blog post "Navigating 2026: The Demand for Hyper-Specificity and the Persistent Paper Elephant" on the need for extreme specificity and that paper isn't going away.There a couple of MMI reports that talk about the amount of paper in contemporary processes;Market Momentum Index: Intelligent Document Processing (IDP) Survey 2025Support the show

The thirty-fourth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). This month, it's time for the annual Deep Analysis predictions, so Matt is joined by both Alan and Dan to discuss a handful of those in our extensive predictions report and catch up on how well those made 12 months have panned out now that they've made contact with reality.In this month’s episode:Dan: 2025 Review and 2026 PredictionFirst up, Dan discusses his 2025 prediction, "To grow, intelligent document processing (IDP) companies must cross the border. He's giving himself a tick here, as he's seeing many vendors pushing the edges of both the vertical (industry) and horizontal (business function) markets that they've grown out of. For 2026, Dan is backing the prediction "The unstructured data gold rush will finally begin", which follows on from his 2025 prediction (and also Alan's 2025 prediction recapped below) that the growth in specific vertical and business functions for AI-derived technology like IDP and the broader AI agent market means a need for access to a lot more business data (and all the jeans, shovels and buckets that requires).Alan: 2025 Review and 2026 PredictionAlan starts with a review of his 2025 prediction "Structured data people will stop treating unstructured data like something that got stuck in their shoes" and gives himself a partial tick, in that he believes that there is general move from the big application vendors to recognise unstructured data is really useful for context, but also at the same time that it's really complicated to pick out the different data types within that big unstructured pile (and that's not just a technical challenge). For 2026, he's pitching "Edge computing will re-emerge as a strategic imperative"; specifically, that access to AI-derived applications increasingly need to take advantage of on-device processing, clever caching technology, etc., to enable remote workers (and related use cases) to operate smoothly.Matt: 2025 Review and 2026 PredictionFinally, it's Matt and he's keen up provide an update on his 2025 prediction "The shift to “payment on outcome” is going to lead to some awkward conversations between customers and suppliers". He explains that the business of developing consumption-based pricing models for AI agents has become increasingly complex, moving beyond the success criteria (especially Salesforce's per-conversation pricing, which remains but is joined by other options). In general, determining the economics of AI agent use remains in the early stages of being made easier to calculate. That notwithstanding, Matt is giving himself a tick here. For 2026, Matt is backing "'Doorstep adoption' of AI will be exposed as a counterproductive farce" as his chosen prediction; that vendors enforcing the bundling of AI tools into renewals doesn't make their adoption real. Matt suggests that it's akin to having a trailer (or a caravan if you prefer) welded to the back of your car without your permission, and then a bill arriving for the job for the excellent utility it provides.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LulxRfzf8jk Related Links for Series 4 Episode 12Here's Alan's introductory blog for this year's predictions: It’s Time to Separate the Wine from the Hype.The download page for the full awards report (just a few details, nothing terrible).Here's Dan's blog postSupport the show

The thirty-third episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). This month it's time to discuss the annual Deep Analysis Innovation Awards, so Matt is joined by both Alan and Dan to discuss this year's winners; Infrrd and LatticeFlow AI (but as ever, show notes are included just below the embedded video).In this month’s episode:Preamble: Why do we have Innovation Awards?First up, Alan talks about why Deep Analysis has annual Innovations Awards and why they are different to many other awards that are out there. Firstly, you can't apply for them, and if you win one there's no fee to pay, fancy dinner to attend (and buy a table at) or winners speech to rehearse. Also there's no set number of winners each year either; the team discusses which briefings wowed them and meets the awards criteria; Does it solve a problem? Does it apply ingenuity? Does it add value? Does it show flexibility?Winner: InfrrdDan introduces the first award winner, Infrrd. Having initially annoyed him with their marketing choices, he was won over with the number of patents that have been awarded for their research in document AI and their development team deserves recognition for that work. Additionally, Dan was impressed with a demo involving Autocad drawings and data extraction, retrieval and document understanding (and awarded them a mini award of their own in the Intelligent Document Processing Market Analysis 2025-2028 report for best demo). Finally Dan was also impressed with Infrrd's work on mortgage loan files; a notoriously difficult use case. Alan adds that IDP in general is featuring in virtually every briefing that Deep Analysis receives right now, as it is a vital part of how unstructured data is made available for AI and agentic technology to use and it could be said it's what is driving many of the predominant AI use cases and is fundamental to LLMs themselves. Winner: LatticeFlow AIMatt then talks about second 2025 award winner, LatticeFlow AI. One of the features of 2025's discourse has been that AI projects are not making it out of pilots and into production. One of the reasons that is happening is that often the hurdle that is compliance, risk etc are not baked into the development from the beginning. LatticeFlow AI is focused on ensuring that an organizations AI applications meet both internal (think GRC; governance, risk and compliance) and external (regulations, like ISO, EU AI Act etc), with a focus both on internal data quality as well as how well individual models are likely to work in conjunction with it. Alan adds that that it's another areas that underlines the increasing gap between demos and production realities; as soon as the word governance people tend to switch off, but it's a vital part of ensuring that organizations are insulated against inevitable legal challenges coming down the road for organizations that don't realise its importance. Postamble: What are we looking for in 2026?To wrap things up, the team nominate what they hope they'll be seeing in 2026 that will end up with them pitching briefings in for the nominations pot in 12 month's time.Dan: Hoping to see better support for tabular information in IDP products; there's lots of start-ups working on the 2D table to understanding, some using Visual Language Models (VLM) and there's an expectationSupport the show

The thirty-second episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As usual, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are included just below the embedded video. It's Matt and Alan this month for a Salesforce-heavy episode, discussing their acquisition of Apromore, some of the thoughts from the pair sparked by the recent 2025 edition of the Dreamforce conference, and wrapping up some of the fall tech conference trends.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: That’s Apromore!First up, Matt and Alan discuss Salesforce's recent acquisition of process analysis vendor Apromore, reminding themselves that Salesforce was an investor in the company (as well as there being a co-selling partnership). As is pointed out, our pair had both thought that there was a good fit for an acquisition (and had said so), but also got into the details of what using such a platform means practically (hint, it's not magic and needs process skills to operate if effectively, but it's a potentially huge on-ramp for Agentforce). They then go on to point to other business application ecosystems where similar investments have been made (and Matt acknowledges that he'd forgotten about SAP somehow when writing the analysis of the deal). Finally, there is some pointing at Deep Analysis's "Work Intelligence" research as a way of better understanding how all this might fit together.Topic 2: Agents of DreamforceThe big annual Salesforce Dreamforce conference took place recently, and whilst Matt watched from home in the UK, Alan was on the ground in San Francisco. They discuss how Salesforce is a bellwether vendor in the business application market, and whilst there was a host of product announcements, it was the changing messaging around Agentforce that got them most intrigued. Matt's product and adoption-focused blog post and Alan's one from the conference floor are discussed, with the general opinion being that it's much harder to deploy agents that were being made apparent 12 months ago, and the messaging is starting to reflect the steps required to get on track.Topic 3: Fall TrendsFinally, Alan's got a couple of thematic trends to discuss from his travels at a bunch of business application conferences this fall/autumn and briefly discusses them; firstly, the underwhelming response from attendees to announcements and - if you ask them - the audience is hot for IDP.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEd5UHaeNCs Related Links for Series 4 Episode 10Work Intelligence Market Analysis 2025-2030 - our full market analysis of the Work Intelligence marketplace, including process analysis.Work Intelligence: Improving Processes by Balancing Human Intelligence and AI - our initial 2022 report on Work Intelligence as a concept, which you can download for free.Salesforce acquires Apromore to give Agentforce a process analysis on-ramp - deal analysis on the Apromore acquisitionSupport the show

The thirty-first episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As usual, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are included just below the embedded video. Dan is back on with Matt this month for an IDP-heavy episode, discussing the latest Deep Analysis MMI Report on IDP, another batch of Vendor Analysis Reports, and an AI-generated incident involving pizza, a sofa, and a wheelchair.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: New MMI on IDPThere's a brand new MMI (Market Momentum Index) report out on IDP, which Deep Analysis has collaborated on with AIIM. As Dan was the lead analyst on this MMI, he talked Matt through just a small selection of the details about the market revealed in the study. These include how many customers are actively working on IDP projects, where those customers are storing documents ,and just how much paper is involved (and it's increasing in volume).Topic 2: Vendor Research UpdatesDan and Matt discuss 4 more of the latest Vendor Analysis Reports that were recently published for subscribers. This time, as Dan is on the show, he talks about the new reports on Roots, Retarus, Affinda, as well as a big update on Hyperscience. Topic 3: Dan Has IssuesFinally, Dan has been infuriated by AI invading his personal life during the summer, leading to it being recommended to him that he should order a sofa and a wheelchair to go with his pizza. Here is his therapy session with Matt discussing his issues about it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yeb5vYR9Dk Related Links for Series 4 Episode 9Market Momentum Index: Intelligent Document Processing (IDP) Survey 2025 can be downloaded from AIIM for free.If you're new to IDP, Dan's annual IDP Market Report, "Intelligent Document Processing Market Analysis 2025-2028: IDP at the Crossroads," might also be of interest.Matt wrote a blog post a couple of months back looking at data across all 4 of the MMI reports that we've published so far, which contains links to all of them (and some interesting stuff on AI adoption)Here are the latest updated vendor profiles (or VVs as we still call them internally)....and here's the link to the whole catalog on those profiles (that you have access to read if you're a subscriber)."No Cure for the Summertime Blues"; Dan's blog post where he outlines some of his issues and more....Support the show

The thirtieth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As usual, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are included just below the embedded video. Alan is on with Matt this month, another batch of Vendor Analysis Reports, the big news coming out of OpenText, and our latest musings on what AI agents mean to the future of operating an organization. In this month’s episode:Topic 1: Vendor Research UpdatesFirst up this month, Alan and Matt discuss 3 more of the latest Vendor Analysis Reports that were recently published for subscribers. Alan talks about the new report on Hyland (via his featured South Philly grown tomato crop), while Matt talks through the debut reports on LatticeFlow and Fisent.Topic 2: Changes at OpenText On the 11th of August, OpenText announced some significant changes in its leadership; here Alan and Matt discuss the announcement itself, Alan's initial blog on the subject, and what we think are the likely outcomes for the company and its products. We do get close to saying "only time will tell" (which we've banned previously), but there are also some insights that you might find useful if you want to get deeper into the product. Dan's also added his opinion from an IDP perspective, too. Topic 3: Pragmatism and Solutionism? For the last topic this month, Alan and Matt discuss a couple of recent blog posts that they've written. Firstly, Matt's written "Agents, Autonomy and Automation", which discusses how maybe autonomy isn't exactly what enterprises need from agents, but instead something that can work, like a typical worker, within traditional boundaries or role and responsibilities. Alan's written one of his own, "The Seductive Danger of Solutionistic Narratives in AI," and the pair discuss how the agent thing is playing out right now in practical terms and where the transformation might be unfolding.Related Links for Series 4 Episode 8. Here are the latest updated vendor profiles (or VVs as we still call them internally). ...and here's the link to the whole catalog on those profiles (that you have access to read if you're a subscriber). Alan's thoughts just after the OpenText leadership announcement ...and here's Dan IDP specific thoughts on the OpenText situation too. Matt's "Agents, Autonomy and Automation" blog post talks about the division of agents into generalized and focused groups. Alan's blog post "The Seductive Danger of Solutionistic Narratives in AI".Support the show

The twenty-ninth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As usual, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are included just below the embedded video. Alan is back on with Matt this month, discussing the remainder of the latest Vendor Analysis Reports, our latest AI Agent research (focusing on scaling agents to execute,) and what a year's worth of MMI reports can tell us about AI adoption across the market.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: Vendor Research UpdatesFirst up this month, Alan and Matt discuss 3 more of the latest Vendor Analysis Reports that were recently published for subscribers. Alan talks about the new reports on Egnyte and SER, while Matt talks through the debut report on Bardeen.Topic 2: AI Agents Pt 2We've recently published the (free to download) addendum to our popular AI Agent understander, in the form of "AI Agents Part 2: The Evolution from Single Systems to Complex Process Orchestration" and here Matt tries to outline what this second reports adds to the first and in the process reveals that he still can't say the work "specificity" reliably. To make up for that fail, the pair go on to talk about Matt's explainer blog post "Friendship is Agentic" on the needs that agents have to make them truly useful and Alan's blog post on what his most recent trip to Silicon Valley taught him about the state of Agentic. Topic 3: AI Adoption Index?Via what is definitely the first and probably the last mention of the MTV series "The Real World" (which to be honest, Matt had though had died in the 1990s, not realizing that it's still very much a thing) the pair go on to talk about the 12 months combined data collected and analysed for our MMI (Market Momentum Index) reports and what it can tell us about AI adoption across the markets that Deep Analysis looks at. Here, they talk about the dangers of extracting meaning from aggregated data (via the medium of hair length) and what the different corpora of data collected in the last 12 months indicate about the health of the business AI market. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm0_wooqPzc Related Links for Series 4 Episode 7Here's those latest updated vendor profiles (or VVs as we still call them internally)....and here's the link to the whole catalog on those profiles (that you have access to read if you're a subscriber).Download the new report "AI Agents Part 2: The Evolution from Single Systems to Complex Process Orchestration" in full.The post "Friendship is Agentic" that Matt wrote to accompany the release of the report.Alan's post about the state of the industry around Agentic AI, inspired by another one of his week's in Silicon ValleySupport the show

The twenty-eighth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As usual it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are included just below the embedded video. Dan is back on with Matt this month, discussing a first selection of the latest Vendor Analysis Reports, a sneap peak into the latest IDP research - this time a largescale survey of IDP use - and Dan's selections for the Banned Words List.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: Vendor Research UpdatesFirst up this month, Dan and Matt discuss 3 of the latest Vendor Analysis Reports that were recently published for subscribers. Dan talks about the updated report on Infrrd and a new report on Cambrion, while Matt talks through some of the highlights of the latest report on EvoluteIQ. Topic 2: New IDP ResearchAhead of the publication of (probably) the largest-scale IDP use survey that's been conducted, Dan talks through some of the early findings that you'll be able to read once the survey proper is released next month. This involves discussion about AI adoption, the need for process analysis, and [gasp] the growing amount of paper that's still driving business processes in 2025. And faxes, lots of faxes.Topic 3: Banned Word List (Pt II)After Matt and Alan got to have a go back in April, this time it's Dan's turn to choose a word (or phrase) he never want to see or hear every again about technology and in return they nominate a cliché of their own they they like to use, but will give up in return. So this time, let’s wave goodbye to “at the end of the day” and “game changer”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZHuG4MH4xw Related Links for Series 4 Episode 6Here's those latest updated vendor profiles (or VVs as we still call them internally)....and here's the link to the whole catalog on those profiles (that you have access to read if you're a subscriber).Last year's Deep Analysis AIIM "Market Momentum Index: AI and Unstructured Data Management" which Matt mentions, which has some other paper related statistics.Support the show

The twenty-seventh episode of the podcast you know and love, "We Love Ugly Data!", is now available. You can find it in audio form on your preferred podcast platform and in video form on YouTube, which we've embedded below. As usual, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are included just below the embedded video. We're back with Matt and Alan again this month, featuring discussions on planning for agents (with a return of the "5 Questions" graphic), a major dispute between business application vendors (with a mention of a breaking M&A transaction), and the distinction between tactical and strategic advice.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: 5 questions for agentic planningTo kick off this month, Matt and Alan discuss last year's infographic "Is your organization ready for Artificial Intelligence?" that Deep Analysis produced in association with AIIM, in light of a blog post that Matt published, where he takes those original 5 questions and asks them again specifically for agentic. There's a big discussion about projects; discovery phases, go-no go decision, subject matter experts, and process analysis (because, of course).Topic 2: Biz App Knife FightBack on the January edition of the pod, Matt and Alan discussed the concept (popularized by Satya Nadella) that business applications are in danger of seeing their business logic being ripped out and placed with agents. With regard to recent comments from both Salesforce and ServiceNow, Reworked recently published an article with comments from both Alan and Matt, largely concerned with their public battle to be the AI platform for business. Here, the pair discusses this battle, what it means about M&A, and the core business application market. Right at the end, Salesforce's deal to acquire Informatica, which was announced 5 minutes before recording, is discussed in the context of this battle. Topic 3: Tactical vs StrategicAlan's been writing about the difference between strategic and tactical and how they need to be aligned. He and Matt discuss this in the light of the work that Deep Analysis does on a day-to-day basis for our clients.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U1-jqWhNkw Related Links for Series 4 Episode 5Matt's "5 Questions for Agentic Planning" blog postThe original AIIM infographic "Is your organization ready for Artificial Intelligence?"The article on Reworked "ServiceNow and Salesforce Fight to Be the Center of AI Agent Operations"The "....a load of CRUD?" topic on business applications, agents and business logic" in January's podcast (it's topic 2)Salesforce announce the acquisition of Informatica (dropped aboSupport the show

The twenty-sixth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As usual it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are included just below the embedded video. We're back to Matt and Alan again this month, with a (lengthy) discussion on the latest edition of the Work Intelligence Market Analysis for 2025-2030, the importance of marking your own homework in public and the first round of our new repeating slot; Banned Words .In this month’s episode:Topic 1: New Work Intelligence Market AnalysisIt's that time of the year again for the updated version of the Work Intelligence Market Analysis covering the years 2025-2030 - the third edition of the report - and Matt and Alan discuss some of the highlights from the report and also look back to the original 2022 analyst report from which it was born (and you can download for free and it's still very relevant). The chat is very process and task mining heavy, with a small mea culpa on perhaps overstating the growth in that part of that market, albeit one which the pair are still really bullish for the important of (which is now being recognised by software vendors trying to put AI agent to work). There's also a sneak on some of the market growth data, which leads us nicely into the next topic.Topic 2: Marking our homeworkMatt talks (via a staggering fact about his haircare routine) about how important it is for the Work Intelligence Market Analysis numbers to be defensible and that means showing the long-term effects of the sizing data (basically to show the over/under delta on the data). Alan has separately recorded a brief video with his feeling about analyst market numbers, in which he seems a little bit cross.Topic 3: Banned words listFinally, it's time for a new rolling segment (to replace our most recent one on analyst value, which we've just written up), with a new one; banned words. Here Matt and Alan choose a word (or phrase) they never want to see or hear every again in relation to technology and in return they nominate a cliché of their own they they like to use, but will give up in return. So this time, let's wave goodbye to "out of the box" and "seamlessly integrated".Related Links for Series 4 Episode 4Matt's blog post about Writer getting excited about processes analysisThe announcement blog for the Work Intelligence Market Analysis 2025-2030The original Work Intelligence introduction report from 2022Matt's marking of his own homework on Work Intelligence numbers<Support the show

The twenty-fifth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As usual it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are included just below the embedded video. This time, it's Matt and Dan are in the chairs for this IDP-focused edition, discussing; the newly launched "Intelligent Document Processing Market Analysis 2025-2028: IDP at the Crossroads" report, IDP and Agents and the final instalment of how analysts add value (and when they don't).In this month’s episode:Topic 1: New IDP Market AnalysisIt's that time of the year again for the updated version of Dan's magnum opus, the "Intelligent Document Processing Market Analysis", covering the years 2025-2028 and coming with the intriguing subtitle "IDP at the Crossroads". Dan explains some of the headlines from the report: how revenue is still increasing, where this growth is the most notable among the sub-markets, and where the expectations amongst vendors lay for forward-looking financial performance.Topic 2: IDP & AgentsAs Matt mentions, if you don't talk about Agents on a software podcast the Police will call on you to ask why, it's time to talk about Agents from an IDP perspective. It's the number one trend within the report and Dan has some survey data from IDP vendors to share about their outlook for Agents within their product roadmaps (hint: it's an explosion of agents, but you're not surprised are you?). Matt also mentions that if you've not read the free report on Agents that we published in January, what on earth are you doing? Really? Topic 3: Analyst Value (pt 3)Finally, it's Dan's turn to contribute to the topic of when analysts add value and when they don't (adding to the contributions that Matt and Alan have made during the last couple of episodes. Dan plumps for "calling the baby ugly" and competitive analysis in the plus column, with lacking in of real world business experience & "TL;DR analysts" in the negative column. We could explain the ugly baby and TL;DR references to you here and now, but why not have a quick listen and let Dan explain their meaning himself?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBjYCEkCDR4 Related Links for Series 4 Episode 2Intelligent Document Processing Market Analysis 2025-2028: IDP at the Crossroads is available for Deep Analysis subscribers immediately, or if you're not and would like it as a one-off purchase, you can get it here."AI Agents: What They Are, How They Work, and Where Organizations Might Best Use Them" can be downloaded here for FREE (OK, a few personal details but no actual money).Matt's blog post "Use process analysis to reflect who you are – another lesson from Work Intelligence".More on the "More Cowbell" sketch that Dan refers to. Support the show

The twenty-fourth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). We're back to our usual format this time, so it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are as usual included just below the embedded video. Matt and Alan are in the chairs for this edition, this time discussing; our latest MMI research on AI and automation (that we've conducted with support from Hyland), that Enterprise Search appears to be back (again) and another instalment of how analysts add value (and when they don't).In this month’s episode:Topic 1: New MMI availableAs you know, we're not the greatest at telling people about the great work that we do, but that stops right now* with Matt and Alan discussing the "Deep Analysis Market Momentum Index™: Intelligent Automation, Artificial Intelligence, and Data" report that we've recently launched with support from Hyland. It's packed with fresh research data on a range of topics around AI, automation and data, but for this segment Matt has picked out just two of the data points to discuss; 1. it's not a shortage of workers that's driving AI (and intelligent automation) projects and 2) data; important, disparate and often incomplete. The results of what is and what is not driving enterprise AI and the state of enterprise data will astonish (if not surprise) those of you with a passing interest in the subject.(* we can't guarantee that this will stop now, unfortunately)Topic 2: Don’t call it a comeback (Enterprise Search)Alan's written a blog post - "The Revival of Enterprise Search: Lessons from the Past in the Age of Agentic AI" - in no small part inspired by the revival of lots of the use cases around Enterprise Search (if not the name itself, because of its terrible reputation for being a bottomless money pit). Here he discusses how the underlying problems have never gone away - as pointed to in the aforementioned research data - and how those challenges, with the more recent appearance of LLMs, have driven new interest in the technology. Much like last month's discussion about Agents (and the very common deterministic tasks vs less common probabilistic ones), the pair point to a very similar and not unrelated split in search query intent (Matt calls this recover vs discover).Topic 3: Analyst Value (pt 2)Finally, Matt and Alan return to the topic that they started in the last podcast of what makes great value for customers with industry analysts and what doesn't. This time Alan talks about "telling the truth" and "invented numbers" while Matt adds "super specialisms" and declaring "X is dead". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ9M8wxFTbARelated Links for Series 4 Episode 2You can download the Hyland sponsored "Deep Analysis Market Momentum Index™: Intelligent Automation, Artificial Intelligence, and Data" here, for FREE.If you missed the previous MMI report "AI and Unstructured Data Management, conducted by Deep Analysis with support from AIIM and M-Files", you can also download that for FREE too!If you'd like to hear Matt and Alan discussing that previous MMI report, then you'll want to go back September '24's podcast for that, which you can find right here.Support the show

The twenty-third episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). We're back to our usual format this time, so it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are, as usual, included just below the embedded video. Matt and Alan are in the chairs for this edition, this time discussing our brand new report on AI Agents, whether business applications are just a bunch of CRUD, and how analysts add value (and when they don't).In this month’s episode:Topic 1: AI Agent ExplainerHaving confidently introduced this episode as the first of series 3, when it's the beginning of series 4 (apologies for that), Matt introduces the first big report release of 2025; "AI Agents: What They Are, How They Work, and Where Organizations Might Best Use Them". The pair discuss why this report is important at this present time and how it is designed as a primer for people being asked in their organizations, "What's our approach to agents?" and provide a guide to their immediate construction and use. Matt goes on to explain that it's the specificity that makes agents different from assistants (and indeed, there's a blog post on this exact subject that, for some reason, he forgot to mention). Oh, and the report is free to download, so there's nothing to stop you from getting your copy right away.Topic 2: …a load of CRUD?Next up, Satya Nadella (CEO of Microsoft) was on the B2G podcast (with Bill Gurley and Brad Gerstner) last month, talking about a range of things, including his belief that business applications are simply CRUD (create, read, update, and delete) databases with business logic attached and that the business logic will soon be moving to AI Agents. Matt and Alan discuss this, with Matt rather annoyed at the reductive description being employed and wondering why customers would want to shift logic from well-understood applications into a more expensive, less well-understood alternative.Topic 3: Analyst ValueFinally, for this month, following up from last year's discussions about the dos and don'ts of analyst briefings and user conferences, Matt and Alan are now taking on their peers in the analyst industry to determine where we all add value to clients and where sometimes we don't. We're fans of the insights from talking to customers but less of the hype (and just plain lousy analysis). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJGd10oTpGQ Show notes for Series 3, Episode 12.Related Links for Series 4 Episode 1Specificity is the key to understanding AI Agents; Matt's intro blog to the new AI Agent research.AI Agents: What They Are, How They Work, and Where Organizations Might Best Use Them; here's where to grab the report from.Satya Nadella Reveals ‘How AI Agents Will Disrupt SaaS Models; Outlook Business' write up of Satya Nadella's appearance on the B2G podcast (where he outed all business apps as CRUD).Here's the full 90 minute YouTube video of the B2G podcast with Satya Nadella.In case you missed it, here's the post "Analyst Briefings; Dos and Don’ts" that we published last year after discussing the topic on the pod between the 3 of us (and we might do the saSupport the show

The twenty-second episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). This time, the format for our last episode of the year is slightly different, as both Alan and Dan join Matt to look back at the 2024 predictions and highlight 3 of the predictions from our 2025 report.In this month's special episode, Alan, Dan, and Matt each get to reflect on their prediction from last year and pick out one of this year's to highlight:Alan's 2025 Prediction: Structured data people will stop treating unstructured data like something that got stuck in their shoes.First up, Alan reflects on his 2024 prediction, "Knowledge graphs and data meshes will gain traction," which, given all the discussion around enabling data for AI agents, he's giving himself a win (even though it's still a trend that's unfolding). This isn't unconnected to the 2025 prediction, which won't also allow unstructured data to come to the foreground in planning. Still, Alan reckons it will generate a wave of M&A activity as vendors scramble to find tools to fold into their products quickly.Dan's 2025 Prediction: Intelligent document processing (IDP) companies must cross the border to grow. Dan gives himself a thumbs up for his prediction of last year: "For the first time in human history, machines will read and process more documents than knowledge workers do," which isn't only likely accurate, it's pretty much impossible to disprove. Clever Dan. For 2025, he points out that for IDP companies to continue to grow, they will have to break out of their respective comfort zones and embrace a broader range of use cases and industries. Oh, and here, too, he's expecting a glut of M&A.Matt's 2025 Prediction: The shift to “payment on outcome” is going to lead to some awkward conversations between customers and suppliers. Matt recalls his 2024 prediction: "Generative AI will face its first cold winter.” He reckons it probably did as organizations weighed up the difficulties of making those assistant (Copilot) use cases work within their ways of working. But in 2025, amidst the wave of AI agents, it's the shift in how vendors look to alter their payment terms where Matt reckons there will be some ructions. Payments based on outcomes are a trend here, and while it's not the predominant way of charging (and probably won't ever be), Matt reckons aligning what each side believes success looks like will be a real challenge. The Salesforce statistic Matt mangled a bit in his recollection of the 2024 Dreamforce keynote was monthly numbers of 83.2 billion Flows being executed vs 112,000 prompts.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmTqPX1BwsIShow notes for Series 3, Episode 12.Predictions Related Links Here's our 2024 predictions podcast, so you can here past us making those predictions in full. Our 2025 report in full! Dan's extended blog on the 2025 IDP trends; Crossing the Border. Here's Matt talking about AI Agents and outcome-based payments in September 2024.Support the show

The twenty-first episode of the podcast you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out. It's available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). This time, the format is different, as Alan and Dan join Matt to discuss the five winners of this year's Deep Analysis Innovation Awards.In this month's special episode:Winner: HyperscienceFirst up, Dan talks about Hyperscience and its Hypercell for GenAI, which helps organizations process large volumes of data ready for use in GenAI applications. Winner: ai12zNext, Matt outlines why AI12z is among this year's winners. Their approach to generative AI enables not only mid-market customers but also the systems integrators that service them to deliver AI assistants and agents.Winner: RossumDan's back to introduce Rossum's award and discuss its T-LLM (Transactional LLM) model, which it built from millions of transactional business documents.Winner: ComposableMatt introduces Composable as the next award winner, explaining how the company focuses on organizations that have outgrown the available tooling for their AI application development and need Composable's help managing the plethora of models and inference suppliers that those heavily invested in developing GenAI applications in-house need to work with.Winner: UiPathFinally, Dan explains why UiPath won this year's awards for its DocPath and CommPath AI models, which were launched earlier this year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT0RtYNIFGQ Show notes for Series 3, Episode 11.Innovations Awards Related Links!Download the full Innovation Awards report.Support the show

The twentieth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available in audio form everywhere you get your podcasts from and additionally in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As always, it's three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are as usual included just below the embedded video. Matt and Alan are back again, this time discussing; the latest vendor research reports on DRUID, M-Files and Writer, how automation and AI agents are friends forever and the (really positive) state of the automation software market in Brazil.In this month's episode:Topic 1: New Vendor Research!First up, Matt and Alan discuss the recently published set of vendor profiles (or whatever it is we're supposed to call them these days). DRUID is up first; an all-in-one platform for the development of conversational AI assistants and agents, which can be embedded into business processes. M-Files is a Microsoft-focused knowledge work automation that provides an innovative “no-folders” approach to document and knowledge management. Finally, Writer enables enterprises to create custom GenAI applications to assist workers in producing precise, detailed, and compliant content which can be plugged into routine tasks to help streamline processes (it's also out there raising an apparently huge funding round right now and - as Alan notes - is also an acquisition target right now too). Matt also mention Writer is one of a host of vendors now using synthetic data to speed up development new models (with all the potential issues that creates).Topic 2: AI Agents and Automation; forever friendsFollowing on from last month's discussion about AI Agents in the run-up to Salesforce's Dreamforce conference, Matt's published something wrapping up how integral automation (think workflow, RPA etc) is to the success of any AI Agent exercise and the pair discuss their takes on how those efforts might play out for those looking to adopt. There's a chance to have a look at the Agentforce announcements in the rear-view mirror, reviewing the takes from Matt in his home office at the east Kent seaside and Alan on the ground in San Francisco.Topic 3: Automation in BrazilBack in August Alan visited Brazil to speak and catch-up with the state of the automation software market in the country (the world's 8th or 9th biggest economy, depending on whether you're using the IMF of the World Bank's numbers). Turns out that it is thriving and in the context of the other discussions about AI Agents, this puts the country in a potentially advantageous position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkvWyu0e1s4 Show notes for Series 3, Episode 10.Topic 1: New Vendor Research!"New Research Dropping Today" blog post (with summaries of the three profiles).The Deep Analysis vendor research database; links to all the vendor research we've published (you can browse as a non subscriber, but you'll need to be a subscriber to get the full reports).The CNBC report "AI startup Writer, currently fundraising at a $1.9 billion valuation, launches new model to compete with OpenAI".Support the show

The nineteenth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As always, it's three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are, as usual, included in the embedded video below. This time around, Matt and Alan are in the chairs, discussing a new research report we've just released on AI and unstructured data, how AI agents are coming and how they might be after your wallet, and the dos and don'ts of storytelling when you're presenting your software product.In this month's episode:Topic 1: AI & Unstructured Data, Survey Out NowFirst up, Matt and Alan discuss the brand new report that Deep Analysis has collaborated on with AIIM and MFiles; "Market Momentum Index: AI and Unstructured Data Management". The report - which you can download from AIIM or MFiles directly - provides insight into the adoption and use of AI in organizations and provides information on how those same organizations manage unstructured data for AI and their view of its importance. They pick up on a couple of data points on AI adoption and how vast the sprawl of unstructured data is across IT estates (as well as mentioning that there's more related research already in the works).Topic 2: Agents and Cash In the second topic this month, Matt has recently posted a new blog post, "Here are the agents. They've come to collect," about a shift in how AI is likely to be paid for as the generative wave moves from assistants to agents. With Salesforce's "Dreamforce" conference only days away at the time of recording (and neatly avoiding saying anything that will break any news embargos), the pair chat about how the economics had shifted from when we first predicted a metered future for generative AI a year ago and the company's announcement of its "hard pivot" to AI agents with Agentforce. Matt also tries to extend an analogy about buffets far too far for its own good.Topic 3: Analyst Briefings, Dos and Don'ts (Pt 2)Over recent podcasts, Matt, Alan, and Dan discussed their dos and don'ts for analyst briefings (which we recently rounded up here, so you don't have to search through old podcasts to find them). It turned out to be quite popular, so to try and help further - and inspired by Dan's suggestion that good storytelling was a definite do - here Matt and Alan suggest their suggestions for dos and don'ts. It sadly quickly heads off-piste, and you end up with further conference recommendations (that we covered in part previously). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaU_jlchk1M Show notes for Series 3, Episode 9.Topic 1: AI & Unstructured Data, Survey Out NowOur Market Momentum Index: AI and Unstructured Data Management; Support the show

The eighteenth episode of the podcast that you know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As always, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are, as usual, included in the embedded video below. This time around, Matt and Alan are in the chairs, discussing 4 new Vendor Profiles (Tungsten Automation, Cognaize, Composable, and iGrafx), catching up on how the meeting of unstructured data and generative AI is working out, and – our second edition of – Analyst Briefings; Do’s and Don’ts.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: New Research!We recently published the latest batch of profiles for our Vendor Analysis research (the artist formerly known as Vendor Vignettes, although we often forget that that’s supposed to be the former title and still use the phrase all the time). Here, Matt and Alan discuss the new profiles on Tungsten Automation, Cognaize, Composable, and iGrafx (a real mix of the old and the brand new here).Topic 2: GenAI and Data: an updateMatt has just begun his third year with Deep Analysis, and to celebrate, he and Alan look at the path that generative AI and its intersection with unstructured data have taken over the last few years: from the first flush of “isn’t it amazing/scary!” to “here’s a complicated way to avoid asking it anything much” and onto the exciting world of agents and large action models.Topic 3: Analyst Briefings, Do’s and Don’ts (Pt 2)As analysts, we spend much of our time briefed by software vendors. Last month, Dan and Matt discussed the dos and don’ts of presenting your company and products to analysts, and now, it’s Alan’s turn to pitch in with his free advice on the subject.Show notes for Series 3, Episode 7.Topic 1: New Research!Here’s the intro blog for the new vendor research: New Research.Subscribers have access to all the vendor research, but you can browse the catalog here.Dan’s blog post heavily features Cognaize, as discussed in the previous pod.If you’d like access to the Composable profile, you can download it for free!Topic 2: GenAI and Data: an updateMatt’s first blog post from (almost)2 years ago; “AI-Enabled BizApps driving the next wave of adoption.”“The AI with a two-track mind” (AI without access to business data is a “parlor trick”).“Models and the RAG trade” (the 5 micro ages of massive models).“UiPath On Tour: FinSupport the show

The seventeenth episode of the podcast that you know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As always, it's three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and show notes are, as usual, included below the embedded video. This time around, Matt and Dan are in the chairs, discussing how to train your LLM, The Usual Suspects (chosen by the usual analyst firms), and Analyst Briefings: Do's and Do not.In this month's episode:Topic 1: How to train your LLMInspired by a blog post of his from last year, Dan discusses the finer points of how LLMs can be trained to ensure that your IDP processes work better. He also confirms his membership in the court of King Charles, which, to be honest, wasn't necessary.Topic 2: The Usual SuspectsAgain, inspired by another blog post—this time a bit more recent—Dan wants us to remember to look beyond those in the top right-hand corner of the 2x2 diagram when we're selecting software. It's naturally focusing on IDP again, but the lesson can easily be applied across the board. Matt also suggests that we may not have paid for the associated image, but he turns out to be entirely wrong (so call off the lawyers).Topic 3: Conference programs; what works and what doesn’t?As analysts, we spend much of our time being briefed by software vendors. Here, Dan and Matt discuss the do's and do nots of presenting your company and products to analysts (hint, hint: go to town on talking about case studies and the actual details of projects you've done).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OmIWNC5QsAShow notes for Series 3, Episode 7.Topic 1: How to train your LLMDan's original blog post "How to Train your LLM."Topic 2: The Usual SuspectsDan's original blog post, "Don't Settle for the Usual Suspects."Support the show

The sixteenth episode of the podcast that you know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As always, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are, as usual, included in the embedded video below. Matt and Alan are in the chairs this time, discussing how GenAI assistants are becoming agents, how RPA is growing in the shade, and what parts of vendor conferences work (and which bits don’t).In this month’s episode:Topic 1: AI Assistants become AgentsFor Topic 1, Matt and Alan discuss how after 2023 being the year where everyone launched an GenAI assistant, 2024 is the year when everyone is launching a GenAI agent. And to keep it confusing (or simple?) they’re all called Copilots. The pair discusses the phenomenon, based on the differences, of how the agent approach might suit some mature use cases better than others and how quickly a “decision tree” approach to developing and testing an agent will get really tricky indeed. Also, Matt references Spinal Tap (amazingly, for the first ever time on this pod).Topic 2: Automation; zero spotlights and doing fine?Alan’s been on the road again, most recently visiting Automation Anywhere’s “Imagine 2024” conference in Austin, Texas. In discussing all of that, the pair wonder whether being in the shade suits RPA, given the recent strong results for UiPath and general good market health (as predicted by the Task Execution market projections within the 2023 and 2024 editions of the Work Intelligence Market Analysis). Could it also be that the scramble for GenAI use cases is throwing up good opportunities for RPA that could deliver faster value?Topic 3: Conference programs; what works and what doesn’t?As analysts, we are privileged to attend many in-person conferences and have primo seats and often luxuries like refreshments and power sockets (I know, it’s a gilded existence). Given that experience, Matt and Alan each pick one thing that works well at these conferences and another that should be avoided at all costs. Unsurprisingly, this topic took this edition of the podcast over time.Show notes for Series 3, Episode 4.Topic 1: AI Assistants become AgentsMatt’s recent blog post concerns Salesforce’s strategy regarding GenAI assistants and agents.“Copilots may have misdiagnosed the problem; humans don’t do what we thought they did.” Matt’s blog post about how we might be overestimating how much human-like experience we can gain from knowledgebases.This short clip from the film “Spinal Tap” should explain Matt’s reference to lukewarm water.Topic 2: Automation; zero spotlight and doing fine?Alan’s recent blog post discusses his thoughts on having visited Automation Anywhere’s “Imagine 2024” conference.UiPath’s 2Support the show

The fifteenth episode of the podcast that we know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As always, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes and show notes are, as usual, included below the embedded video. Matt and Alan are in the chairs this time, discussing new vendor profiles and AI readiness.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: 5 New Vendor VignettesFirst up, Matt and Alan discuss the latest set of – what used to be called – Vendor Vignettes, that have recently been published; debuts for ai12z, Docuvela and Reshape AI and completely updated profiles for Appian and Apromore. The pair discuss how these research updates connect to current trends and how they fit into the existing application landscape for organizations who might look to adopt them.Topic 2: 5 Questions for AI ReadinessIn conjunction with AIIM (Association for Intelligent Information Management), Deep Analysis (along with Kash Kompella of RPA2AI) have compiled an infographic that provides organizations with 5 key questions they need to be able to positively answer before they should begin any AI project (especially generative AI). Here Matt and Alan discuss the individual steps, why they are all important and also, why the document sports a cartoon Alan at the center.Topic 3: Why are process tools having such a hard time?Alan’s been on the road a lot in the last few weeks and – as he does – having a lot of conversations with the people he meets. From these conversations, he reckons that as much as Deep Analysis highly rate the importance of Task and Process Mining, they are proving a hard sell in the marketplace (especially Process Mining). Here the pair discuss why that might be, what approaches they’ve heard are being used to offset these challenges and what the future might look like (the real future, not whatever weird and wild guesses Gartner are making this time).Show notes for Series 3, Episode 4.Topic 1: 5 New Vendor VignettesAlan’s introductory blog post on the latest set of Vendor Vignettes.Topic 2: 5 Questions for AI ReadinessDownload the AIIM infographic “5 Questions – Is Your Organization Ready for AI?” [COMING SOON]Alan’s recent blog posts; “Orchestrating AI – Appian” and AI Readiness – “Ready for what, exactly?”.Topic 3: Why are process tools having such a hard time?To join the mailing list and receive the newsletter (or challenge us as to how your attempts to popularize Task ad Process Mining are going), contact us.Support the show

The fourteenth episode of the podcast that we know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As always, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and the show notes are, as usual, included in the embedded video below. Matt and Alan are in the chairs this time for a Work Intelligence-focused episode.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: Work Intelligence Market Analysis 2024-2029, Out Now!We kick off this episode by discussing the newly released “Work Intelligence Market Analysis 2024-2029,” which is now out for subscribers (and for one-off purchase for nonsubscribers). Matt and Alan discuss the constituent parts that make up Work Intelligence and how they fit together before going on to look at some of the biggest revenue contributors to that market and a quick discussion about some of the new data points that have debuted in this new edition of the report (geographic location and company size).Topic 2: Farewell, WorkfellowVery much still in the area of Work Intelligence, Matt and Alan talk about the sad demise of one of our favorite Mining Intelligence start-ups, Workfellow. Pulling some further data from the Work Intelligence report, the pair discuss the relative performance and funding in particular for Process Mining and Task Mining vendors and how even that data is somewhat skewed by the presence of one, high earning and fabulously funded player in that sub-market.Topic 3: RAG SLAMMatt has recently published a blog post, “Models and the RAG trade”, discussing how the proposed enterprise use of generative AI has shifted quickly from it being a magic box to how it’s necessary to build and support a lot of information scaffolding around it to produce useful results. Here, the pair discuss the differences between using RAG (Retrieval Augmented Generation) and domain-specific, smaller language models (which you could call a SLAM) and where current thinking on each is likely heading. It also touches on the news – covered in another recent blog from Matt – of the hiring of (well-funded LLM start-up) Inflection’s core team by Microsoft.Show notes for Series 3, Episode 4.Topic 1: Work Intelligence Market Analysis 2024-2029, Out Now!The announcement blog post for the WI Market Analysis report update.Details on how to purchase the report for non-subscribers.Topic 2: Farewell, Workfellow“Workfellow – a sad loss”, Alan’s blog post signaling farewell to one of our favorite start-ups.Topic 3: RAG SLAMMatt’s blog posts, “Models and the RAG trade” and “Generative AI: focus on the consumer and the consumption”.2020 research paper from Meta/UCL that firsSupport the show

The thirteenth episode of the podcast that we know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As always, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and show notes are, as usual, included below the embedded video. Matt and Dan in the chairs this time, in a very IDP focused episode.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: Irrational Exuberance?First, Dan provides an introduction to the IDP Market Analysis that he’s recently completed (and you can purchase copies of right now). The pair then move on to talk about one of the key findings in the report itself, which suggests that the vendors surveyed for the research are very bullish about their projected increases in short-term revenue. Dan balances this against his own market projections and Matt compares start-ups with hungry baby birds (it makes sense in context, trust us).Topic 2: GenAI’s outsized impactReferencing another data point from the IDP report, Dan talks about how GenAI continues to wield a huge influence in the product roadmaps for IDP vendors and points to a couple of recent specific announcements (see show notes below) to illustrate that fact. Matt chips in with a reminder of the fact that metered access to GenAI is coming over the horizon.Topic 3: Data and Research EfficacyReferencing a recent blog post on the subject, Matt and Dan discuss the challenges in gathering and maintaining research data for market analysis reports, ensuring that it is representative and how they go about choosing what is and what isn’t added into the final published analysis. There’s also some insight into who are the real buyers (and readers) of this sort of specialized research.Show notes for Series 3, Episode 3.Topic 1: Irrational Exuberance?Announcing the 2024 IDP Market Report blog post by DanPurchase the report itself, here.We Love Ugly Data! – The Deep Analysis Podcast: Series 2, Episode 5 previous pod episode where Matt and Dan discuss the history of IDPTopic 2: GenAI’s outsized impactMore startups are using GenAI for IDP blog post by DanRossum launches its own LLM blog post by DanTungsten Automation (Kofax) launches GenAI Copilots for intelligent automation blog post by DanTopic 3: Data and Research EfficacyUnderstanding scale and location: Another new lesson from Work Intelligence blog post by MattSupport the show

The twelfth episode of the podcast that we know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As always, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and show notes are, as usual, included below the embedded video. Matt and Alan are in the chairs this time around.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: Don’t Trust in MagicHere, the discussion centers upon Matt’s recent blog post, where he discusses that some organizations expect generative AI to find a role in their working methods without a clear idea up front as to what that might be. During a discussion about how Task and Process Mining can prevent this situation, Alan muses on Free Jazz while Matt worries about the dangers of just giving everybody a hammer to play with.Topic 2: Business Forms & AIAlan talks about the recent news that the business forms industry group BFMA has been folded into the information management association AIIM and how we often overlook how important forms are to how organizations work. Naturally the discussion ends up in a reminder that for many people (customer, works and partners) these forms are the entire interface that they have with important parts of an organization or even their entire experience of working with them.Topic 3: Work & TrustFollowing a blog post of Matt’s early in January about how the Horizon/Post Office scandal in the UK illustrates how mistrust of workers undermines a lot of what organizations would like to do to improve their ways of working, the pair discuss the topic and remind people that aside from anything else, if you’re in London, you should definably visit The Postal Museum and ride the Mail Rail. Alan goes on to mention situationism because, of course, he does.Show notes for Series 3, Episode 1.Topic 1: Don’t Trust in MagicMatt’s blog post “Don’t Trust in Magic: A new lesson from Work Intelligence”Ethnic Heritage EnsembleTopic 2: Business Forms & AIAlan’s blog post “Business Forms & AI”The announcement of the BFMA joining AIIMTopic 3: Work & TrustMatt’s blog post “Following new horizons through Work Intelligence”The London Postal MuseumGuy DubordSupport the show

The eleventh episode of the podcast we now know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; it's the first of season 3 and kicks off our 2024!The eleventh episode of the podcast – the first of 2024 and therefore the first of season 3 – that we know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As always, it’s three topics in (just a touch over) 30 minutes, and show notes are, as usual, included below the embedded video. Matt and Alan are in the chairs this time around.In this month’s episode:Topic 1: 2024 is a money year?First up, the pair discuss Alan’s recent 2024 blog opener, in which the changing face of funding, divestitures, and a general subtle change in focus for private equity and venture capital make the year a very interesting prospect. Matt pins the analyst industry with some blame for firms' intense clustering on some use cases, where much of the landscape remains greenfield.Topic 2: Salesforce & Ugly DataLooking back at one of the last sets of vendor announcements of 2023, Matt runs through his analysis of Salesforce’s stated intent to take on unstructured data as a knowledge source for AI, and Alan reflects on how we’re heading into another cycle of discovering this stuff is hard to do well.Topic 3: Time to re-think our life of files?Ahead of the release of the year's first Analyst Briefing and in the midst of its final editing, the pair discuss their thoughts about how files as containers of information aren’t really suitable for most of the purposes we use them for and are frankly really overweight (and not just holiday weight, real weight issues). It also contains Matt’s attempt to drag Forrest Gump into a related analogy, which, in hindsight, was ill-advised.Show notes for Series 3, Episode 1.Topic 1: 2024 is a money year?Alan’s blog post “2024 – A Year of Change for Enterprise Software.”Topic 2: Salesforce & Ugly DataMatt’s blog post “Now They Love Ugly Data Too! Salesforce embraces the unstructured”.Salesforce’s World Tour NYC announcement press release.Topic 3: Time to re-think our life of files?COMING SOON – Analyst Briefing “ECM in 2024 and Beyond – Reframing the Equation” (free registration required for download).The previous “We Love Ugly Data!” episode where Matt and Dan discuss the repetition of “n% of data is unstructured”.Support the show

The tenth episode of the podcast we now know you love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out!As always, it’s three topics in 30 minutes, but this time, it’s a 2024 Predictions Special – a selection from the full-length Market Trends research paper you can now download – where Matt is joined by Alan and Dan. Show notes are, as usual, included below the embedded video.In this episode,Prediction 1: “Generative AI will face its first cold winter”Matt’s up first, and here is discussed the prediction that right now, Generative AI is facing up to its first cold winter, where customers try to make sense of how this much-hyped technology actually fits into how they actually work. It’s not a litany of negativity by any means; there are some real, tangible ways it’s being used right now (hint: it’s citizen developers again!).Prediction 2: “For the first time in human history, machines will read and process more documents than knowledge workers.Dan’s pitch was that we’re at the tipping point where machine reading of documents will overtake that read by human beings, in large part as the current wave of IDP hits organizations.Prediction 3: “Knowledge Graphs and Data Meshes gain traction”Last up is Alan, and he’s picked out the prediction that Knowledge Graphs and Data Meshes (and Data Fabrics, for that matter) will accelerate in terms of their adoption in organizations as they attempt to coalesce their internal information, not least as it’s one of the significant predicates for the use of AI.Support the show

The ninth episode of the podcast we now know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As always, it’s three topics in 30 minutes. Matt is chatting with Alan this time; skip to the topics you’re most interested in, or maybe sit back and enjoy the whole thing. Show notes are, as usual, included below the embedded video.In this episode,Topic 1: SharePoint Premium?In a pod that is quite Redmond-heavy, Alan’s been out and about at a few Microsoft events and gives us the details about SharePoint Premium, what it is, where it came from, and what it means for customers and partners going forward. We’ve been following this particular story for a few years….Topic 2: Copilots! Everywhere!Doing their best to sidestep the ongoing shenanigans at OpenAI, Matt and Alan discuss the army of Copilots – and related tools – that Microsoft announced at their recent Ignite conference and what that means in the real work contexts that will define their ultimate success (basically, are they useful).Topic 3: Citizen Developers?As promised a few episodes ago, Matt and Alan are back with some of the results from the “Citizen Developers” survey they asked for help on a few months back. Here they discuss a couple of interesting findings, focusing on governance. Oh, and despite what they suggest here, you’re allowed to listen even if you didn’t contribute to the survey; we’re not that mean.Show notes for Series 2, Episode 9.Topic 1: SharePoint Premium?Alan’s blog post explains everything about SharePoint Premium.Alan’s other blog post is about the Microsoft Ignite in general.Oh, and in case you missed it, here’s Alan’s other recent Microsoft conference blog, this time about Power Platform.Topic 2: Copilots! Everywhere!What are our feelings about the going on with the leadership of OpenAI and whether you should care?Here, Matt talks about the need to focus on the real and useful with AI and ignore the noise elsewhere.Support the show

The eighth episode of the podcast we now know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we've embedded below). As ever, it's three topics in 30 minutes; Matt and Dan are in the chairs this time; skip to the topics you're most interested in, or maybe sit back and enjoy the whole thing. Show notes are, as ever, included below the embedded video.In this episode,Topic 1: Dan, is generative AI hype or hero for IDP?Using some visual aids that he borrowed from Kofax, Dan talks through the impact that generative AI has on IDP, both now and in the future. In the process, the subject turns to whether IDP could be the first real-world application of generative AI that earns its keep in the enterprise.Topic 2: Check the meter; here comes winter!It's starting to get cold and wet in the UK (yes, we can hear your "so what's new?" comments, and we're choosing to ignore them), and Matt has noticed the impact on his smart meter. At the same time, he wonders whether organizations realize too that soon their generative AI tools will hit the meters and wants to remind them to build that into their planning. There's also a brief but entirely justified bit of competition bashing.Topic 3: Dan, why do people continue to underestimate the EU?Dan has been speaking to a whole bunch of IDP vendors in the EU and has concluded that developing their product in the region has resulted in some interesting and innovative outcomes that are symptomatic of building there. He and Matt discuss what those EU-specific circumstances might be. Matt's blog post/analyst note: "Here Comes The Meter Man – A Lesson in GenAI Planning."The WSJ article (paywall, subscription required) discussed - among other things - the costs of Microsoft Copilot.Information Week and their coverage of Forrester Research's CEO's recent comments at one of their conferences.Support the show

The seventh episode of the podcast we now know and love as "We Love Ugly Data!" is out; Matt and Alan are in the chairs this time; skip to the topics you're most interested in, or maybe sit back and enjoy the whole thing. Come on, it's only 30 minutes and you deserve a break.The (magnificent) seventh episode of the podcast we now know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As ever, it’s three topics in 30 minutes; Matt and Alan are in the chairs this time; skip to the topics you’re most interested in, or maybe sit back and enjoy the whole thing? Come on, it’s only 30 minutes, and you deserve a break. Show notes are as ever, included below the embedded video.In this episode,Topic 1: AI & Supply ChainIn a segment that we could easily have called “Where In The World Has Alan Been?” (if we’d not done that several times before), Alan’s been speaking at Parcel Forum in Nashville, and even though 10 minutes isn’t anywhere near enough time to distill the entire keynote into a podcast, here he and Matt discuss some of the key elements of that presentation.Topic 2: Citizen Developer SurveyDeep Analysis is currently running an industry survey around current trends, adoption, and attitudes toward “Citizen Development,” and here Matt and Alan discuss why we’re doing it, why you should contribute, and some of the positive (and negative) rationales behind using this technology.Topic 3: Stop Personifying AI!Matt’s written a (slightly angry) blog post in the wake of Salesforce’s recent “Dreamforce” conference about how we should all be really careful about the language we use to describe AI, not ascribe human qualities to it (like intent) and certainly not use imagined power as a way to sell defensive features in your software. But you’d never do that, now, would you?Show notes for Series 2, Episode 6.Topic 1: AI & Supply ChainParcel ForumTopic 2: Citizen Developer SurveyYou can contribute to the Citizen Developer survey here (and your contribution will be gratefully received). As mentioned in the pod, we will be sharing the results and analysis once the survey has been concluded.Topic 3: Stop Personifying AIMatt’s recent blog “AI, building trust and selling defense.”They also mentioned a previous blog post “AI, regulation and the predictions of doom”.An introduction to the concept of “The Chinese Room” (with associated criticism).The very excellent Javvad Malik (with links to all his posts, videos etc.) can be found here.Support the show

The sixth episode of the second season of the Deep Analysis podcasts went live this week; the 4 Waves of IDP, how AI products are creating a lot of head scratching on data residency, and why can't we call everything "content"?The sixth episode of the podcast we now know and love as “We Love Ugly Data!” is out; available everywhere you get your podcasts from and, of course, in video form via YouTube (which we’ve embedded below). As ever, it’s 3 topics in 30 minutes; Matt and Alan are in the chairs this time; skip to the topics you’re most interested in, or maybe sit back and enjoy the whole thing? Come on, it’s only 30 minutes, and you deserve a break. Show notes are, as ever, included below.In this episode;Topic 1: 5 (more) Vendors to WatchWe’ve recently added 5 more Vendor Vignettes to the website for subscribers to digest, but for everyone else here, Alan and Matt do a rapid-fire summary of each (you can read it more leisurely here).Topic 2: Here comes trouble?Alan recently wrote a blog post (the device that we until recently called an “analyst note”, before we reverted to blog for the sake of simplicity) called “Industry Consolidation is Coming.” Here he and Matt discuss some of the financial and operational challenges that start-ups are facing and 4 important lessons that they should heed.Topic 3: AI Citizen DevelopersAnother topic concerns a recent blog post, this time written by Matt, about how Generative AI, vendor LLMs, and No Code. Our pair discusses why vendors would be focusing their energy here, what it means for Low and No Code platforms and….. where are all the citizen developers?Support the show

The show notes for this episode are available below if you want to follow the conversation. As ever, it's three topics in 30 minutes, this time with Matt and Dan; skip to the topics you're most interested in, or maybe sit back and enjoy the whole thing with a beverage of your choice.Topic 1: What are the “4 Waves of IDP”?Dan recently posted an Analyst Note entitled "The Fourth Wave of IDP is Here," and here he talks Matt through those 4 waves, from the original OCR of the 1960s and Forms and Templates of the 1980s and 1990s, through Machine Learning to the LLMs (or GPTs if you prefer) that have dominated release cycles this year.Topic 2: LLMs, grounding, and data residencyMatt wonders whether, among the plethora of big announcements around AI from the largest software vendors, some of the biggest challenges faced in their implementation have been overlooked in much of the commentary? Using examples from Microsoft and Salesforce (both have talked and published extensively on the subject), Matt points out that using your own data to help "ground" requests being sent to LLMs like OpenAI's GPTs creates a series of challenges around data residency regional legal frameworks and plain "my brain hurts thinking about it" allied issues.Topic 3: Documents, content, files, records, semi-structured or unstructured data: do labels matter anymore?Dan discusses his recent Analyst Note, "Documents, content, files, records, semi-structured or unstructured data: do labels really matter anymore?" and ponders why we call things the names we do. Matt wonders whether it's actually all the fault of Industry Analysts in the first place.Support the show

The show notes for this episode are available below if you want to follow the conversation. As ever, it's three topics in 30 minutes, this time with Matt and Alan; skip to the topics you're most interested in, or maybe sit back and enjoy the whole thing with an iced beverage of your choice (it's a little hot right now, treat yourself?In this episode;Topic 1: Research UpdatesA new set of Vendor Vignettes was recently added to the site - for Skan, Botminds, Hyperscience and IPwe. Matt and Alan discuss the relative significance of each in their respective markets and remind us that these will be the last published for all to read for free (future VVs will be for Deep Analysis subscribers only).Topic 2: Missing Miners?Now he's back on terra firms after his travels, Alan ponders the act that so few of the people he'd met had any knowledge of Task or Process Mining.  Having written an Analyst Note on the subject, He and Matt discuss whether this confirms the projections in the "Work Intelligence Market Analysis" and how RPA vendors are changing their go-to-market strategy - as Alan previously noted with UiPath - plays into their hands?Topic 3: Yes, More AIAs it currently appears to be international law, Matt and Alan discuss the last few weeks in AI and unstructured data. Matt published an Analyst Note imploring people not to listen to the "end of the world" AI doom grifters, and the pair discuss how best to try and be cool and circumspect in your planning for the subject while the world around shouts very loudly.Support the show

Episode 3 is here! Matt and Alan chat about Data Fabrics, AI desktop assistants, recent conferences, Ice-T, and all in just 30 minutes...Topic 1: Where in the world has Alan been?- Napoli win's first Scudetto since 1990 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65488842- AIIM Conference https://www.aiimconference.com/event/fdbca9bf-a503-49db-aaa2-c3aa0bb23030/summary- Reworked Connect Conference https://www.reworked.co/connect/Topic 2: Here come the gen AI helpers! How do you cope?- Generative AI on Your Desktop: Uninvited Guest, Welcome Coworker, or Competitor? - https://www.deep-analysis.net/generative-ai-on-your-desktop/- Google Duet AI for Workspace https://workspace.google.com/blog/product-announcements/duet-ai- Microsoft 365 CoPilot https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2023/03/16/introducing-microsoft-365-copilot-your-copilot-for-work/- Salesforce Einstein for GPT https://www.salesforce.com/uk/news/press-releases/2023/03/07/einstein-generative-ai/Topic 3: Data Fabrics & Work Intelligence. A solution?- Appian Data Fabric intro video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxxf5wk8Z_4- Work Intelligence Introduction https://www.deep-analysis.net/work-intelligence-improving-processes/- Work Intelligence Market Analysis https://www.deep-analysis.net/work-intelligence-market-analysis-2023-2028/Support the show

 Each month we spend 30 minutes discussing three hot topics. In this episode, Matt Mullen & Dan Lucarini look at:Topic 1: Why on earth are there 300+ IDP vendors?Dan discusses the remarkable explosion of startups in the IDP (Intelligent Document Processing) market and looks at their future chances of survival.https://www.deep-analysis.net/intelligent-document-processing-market-analysis-2022-2026/Topic 2: Europe. It's a whole different content   Startups and technology vendors come from all over the world, but their operating dynamics and funding sources differ remarkably, region by region. Dan and Matt provide some perspective and analysis.https://www.deep-analysis.net/a-nonuniform-world-lesson-two-from-building-the-work-intelligence-market-analysis/https://www.deep-analysis.net/connected-markets-lesson-one-from-compiling-work-intelligence/Topic 3: 80% of Data is Unstructured? Is it? Is it Really?Possibly the biggest myth in the industry and one that needs to be busted, our hosts ruthlessly dissect the roots and reality of the 80% fantasy.Enjoy!Support the show

We are back, after a very long break the Deep Analysis podcast returns, with a new format and new presenters. Each month we will spend 30 minutes discussing three. currently hot topics. In this episode Matt Mullen & Alan Pelz-Sharpe look at:Topic 1: Why is Alan in Brazil?https://iima.com.br/information-showTopic 2: Work IntelligenceWork Intelligence Market Analysis: https://www.deep-analysis.net/work-intelligence-market-analysis-2023-2028/Work Intelligence Intro Report: https://www.deep-analysis.net/work-intelligence-improving-processes/Topic 3: Is Google's Generative AI App Builder for the masses?Google Gen App Builder announcement https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/create-generative-apps-in-minutes-with-gen-app-builderSalesforce Einstein GPT Press Release https://www.salesforce.com/news/press-releases/2023/03/07/einstein-generative-ai/Enjoy!Support the show

In this episode, we talk to one of the founders of the Boston Blockchain Association, Peter Brooks. Peter gives is a grounded and valuable perspective on the reality of Enterprise Blockchain in 2020, its challenges and opportunities.Support the show

In this podcast, we have an extended conversation with XPAN Law Group and Seventh Samurai attorney Michael Simon. A wide range and highly informative discussion that looks at some of the legal precedents and challenges of applicable legal standards to Artificial Intelligence.Note: The interview was recorded remotely - unfortunately the sound quality is not what we would like, but the discussion is worth it :-)Support the show

Part two of my conversation with Robin Daniels (ex WeWork, Box, etc) the founder of byFounders the Nordic investment firm. In this podcast we discuss the differences in investment and startup cultures between Silicon Valley and the Nordics. With diversions into Web Content Management, Salesforce, Oracle and Blockchain!Support the show

In this episode, we talk with former WeWork CMO and Silicon Valley legend Robin Daniels (now with Matterport and founder of Nordic investment firm byFounders). Topics discussed include the changes to Silicon Valley over the last twenty years that have occurred after a crisis such as the dot.com bust and now faced with another major reset post-COVID. This is part one of a two-parter - the next episode will focus on the Nordic startup community.Learn more about our work at: www.deep-analysis.netIf you have any questions or thoughts feel free to ping us at: [email protected] the show

In this podcast, we talk to Dave Giordano the CEO of Technology Services Group. At the time of the interview, his firm was running an 11 billion file ECM benchmark test on AWS. That test has now been completed successfully.  Why a benchmark like this - well you have to listen to find out the details, but the reality is that many enterprises are regularly breaching the 1 billion file mark and have few options available to them.  This is scaling on a massive scale!Support the show

Recently I recorded a conversation with Zachary Scott Jarvinen the Product Marketing Lead for AI at OpenText. Great discussion - exploding some myths, grounding AI in the real world and touching on Ancient Greek and Vegas Magicians!Support the show

We continue our conversation and dive deeper into the future role of AI, consider whether Open Source is still a key differentiator and look at the future of ECM & BPM.Support the show

We had the opportunity to chat extensively with Bernadette about her thoughts on the the role of AI and the Cloud in ECM & BPM.  It's a fun discussion and we covered a lot of ground - hope you enjoy!Support the show

In this episode I have an extended chat with my friend and colleague Kashyap Kompella the CEO of RPA2AI. We discuss the upcoming AI World conference in Boston and look at a number of practical challenges regarding the implementation of AI & RPA in the real world.  Plus a mention of Bears in New England and a Festival that was in progress in Bangalore as we recorded the episode!Support the show