All Episodes - Inside Out with Jim Bennett and Ian Wilks
The format of Inside Out is simple - Jim Bennett is still on the inside of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Ian Wilks is on the outside of the Church. Yet both care about the Church and its future, and both want to see constructive dialogue between those who stay and those who leave. Hopefully, all of us can come to a better understanding of the Church and of each other.
View Podcast Details95 Episodes
A Conversation with Greg Prince
Send us a textIan and Jim sit down with acclaimed Mormon historian and scholar Greg Prince—author of David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism and other pivotal works—for a sweeping discussion on the past, present, and future of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Women in the Church
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the history and the future of women in the Church.
Are We The Baddies?
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss America's abandonment of Ukraine and what the Church's role ought to be as the world devolves into chaos.
You Are Enough
Send us a textIan and Jim explore the challenge of toxic perfectionism in the Church.
Survey Says: Part Three
Send us a textIan and Jim finish answering all of the Church's survey questions.
Survey Says: Part One
Send us a textIan and Jim take a Church survey that was mistakenly sent to a larger audience than the Church intended. Part one of a series...
A Conversation about BYU with Sue Bergin
Send us a textSue Bergin, a former BYU adjunct faculty member, was one of the few people willing to go on the record for the Salt Lake Tribune's groundbreaking article about BYU's current hiring and firing practices. She joins Ian and Jim to tell her story and discuss what's happening at BYU.
Plural Marriage in Primary
Send us a textIan and Jim greet the New Year with a discussion about plural marriage being included in this year's Primary manual.
James Burnham Returns!
Send us a textWith Jim on vacation, Ian welcomes James Burnham back to Inside Out, as he shares some more of his unique perspectives and two new songs!
Christmas
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the blessings and opportunities of Christmas, in and out of the Church.
Change in an Unchanging Church
Send us a textLast week's episode was a reminder that some in the Church continue to believe things the Church no longer teaches, which prompted Ian and Jim to discuss how to deal with change in a Church that paradoxically teaches both continuing revelation and unchanging doctrine at the same time.
A Conversation with Marcus Hutber
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by Marcus Hutber, who, as a missionary, brought Ian Wilks into the Church back in the day. The robust discussion largely focuses on why Black people were denied the priesthood and temple blessings prior to 1978.
A Conversation with Andrew and Carline Patterson
Send us a textAndrew and Carline Patterson served alongside Ian when he was the bishop in the Dalkeith Ward in Scotland. They share their story as to what led them to join the Church and then what led them to walk away from the Church.
Heretic: The Inside Out Review
Send us a textIan and Jim review the horror film Heretic, which features Latter-day Saint sister missionaries in the starring roles. Warning: Spoilers aplenty!
Was Joseph Smith Really a Polygamist? A Conversation with Michelle Brady Stone
Send us a textMichelle Brady Stone joins Ian and Jim in an engaging and lively discussion to make the case that Joseph Smith was not, in fact, a polygamist.
Election Reactions
Send us a textIan and Jim have a raw and difficult discussion about America's election results.
Inside Out: Election Edition
Send us a textWith the U.S. presidential just days away, Ian and Jim discuss what it means for America, the world, and the Church.
Sleeveless Garments
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the announcement from the Church of new designs for sleeveless temple garments.
A Conversation with Richard Bushman
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by preeminent historian Richard Bushman for a wide-ranging conversation about his life, his work, and his faith.
October 2024 Conference Recap
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss their impressions and insights from the October 2024 General Conference.
A Conversation with Stephen Murphy of Mormonism with the Murph
Send us a textStephen Murphy, host of the Mormonism with the Murph podcast, joins Ian and Jim to discuss his faith journey that led him out of the Church and then led him back again.
A Conversation with Kathryn, Matthew, and Mitchell Maddix
Send us a textTrigger Warning: SuicideIn this deeply moving episode, Kathryn Maddix and her sons, Matthew and Mitchell, join Ian and Jim to honor the life of husband and father Mike Maddix, who served alongside Ian and Jim as a missionary in Scotland.Together, the Maddix family reflects on Mike's legacy while also bravely addressing the difficult realities and spiritual challenges that come with the experience of suicide in the family.
Membership Withdrawal
Send us a textIn the wake of new training about disciplinary councils such as the one upcoming for Nemo the Mormon, Ian and Jim discuss the Church's policies on membership restrictions and withdrawals, past and present.
A Conversation with Jeddy Bennett
Send us a textFresh off their conversation with Jim's son Samuel last week, Ian and Jim speak with Sam's identical twin Jeddy about his mission experience, which was, in many ways, quite different from Sam's mission experience.
A Conversation with Samuel Bennett
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by Jim's son Samuel for a powerful discussion about the mental health challenges he faced on his mission.
The Only True and Living Church
Send us a textWith the release of a series of new Church essays, Ian and Jim explore what it means to say that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true and living Church on the face of the whole earth.
New Handbook Updates
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the new updates to the Church's handbook, with particular focus on the controversial new transgender policies.
A Conversation with Gustavo Hernández
Send us a textIan and Jim are interviewed by Gustavo Hernández, a Latter-day Saint podcaster based in Mexico.
Abortion
Send us a textRushing in where angels fear to tread, Ian and Jim discuss the Church's position on abortion.
Fallibility: A Love Story
Send us a textWith Ian on vacation in the UK, Jim flies solo with an excerpt from his recently finished book manuscript, "Fallibility: A Love Story."
Where Will You Go?
Send us a textJim Bennett and an intercontinental Ian Wilks discuss Elder M. Russell Ballard's 2016 General Conference talk "To Whom Shall You Go?" and how the question feeds into a narrative of fear that is not persuasive to the rising generation.
A Conversation with Mette Ivie
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by the brilliant Mette Ivie, bestselling author of, among other things, the "The Bishop's Wife" murder mystery series. Mette offers a fascinating perspective on her own faith journey and struggles in the face of personal tragedy, and she explains why, even though she no longer attends church, she doesn't identify as an ex-Mormon.
A Conversation with TJ Hoisington
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by bestselling author and motivational speaker TJ Hoisington, who shares how his faith has informed his personal and professional life.
Hanging by a Thread
Send us a textIn the wake of Joe Biden's disastrous debate performance, Ian and Jim discuss today's geopolitical challenges and what they mean for the future of the Church.
A Conversation with Steven Pynakker
Send us a textSteven Pynnaker, who has previously hosted Ian and Jim on his Mormon Book Reviews Podcast, comes to Inside Out to discuss how an evangelical encounters the Restoration.
A Conversation with Brett Palmer
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by Brett Palmer, an old friend and former mission AP who shares stories about his faith journey and his life in and out of the Church.
Building Temples: A Conversation with Rebecca Bibliotecha and Landon Brophy
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by Rebecca Bibliotecha and Landon Brophy of the Mormonish podcast to discuss how people are reacting to many of the Church's proposed temples in their communities.
A Conversation with Nemo the Mormon
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by the one and only Nemo the Mormon for a wide-ranging conversation about the state of the Church and the world at large.
A Glimpse of the Other Side
Send us a textIn this candid, powerful episode of Inside Out, Ian tells us where he was last week, and why the greatest health scare he's ever experienced was also the most profound spiritual experience of his life.
Inside Out: The Musical
Send us a textWith Ian under the weather, Jim taps the one and only Oprah Winfrey to co-host an exploration of his musical adventures in and out of the Church, focusing on how music can bring us all closer to the Divine. And yes, of course that's really Oprah Winfrey and not at all some weird AI digital replica.
Women in the Church
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss General Relief Society President Camille Johnson's talk about motherhood, in which she discusses her decision to work outside the home at a time when Church leaders were condemning that decision.
A Brother's Story
Send us a textIn this heart-wrenchingly personal episode, Ian tells the story of his relationship with his brother Paul and the moment that gave him an undeniable witness of God's love and mercy.
A Changing Church, and a Changed Conference Talk
Send us a textIan and Jim revisit Elder Ronald E. Poelman's infamous 1984 General Conference talk, which was altered and re-filmed after the fact. The talk serves as a model for how the Church deals with change and highlights the tension between the Church and the Gospel.
The Church and Suicide
Send us a textTrigger warning!This episode focuses on the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with regard to suicide.
Jim Bennett in X-ile
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the reasons Jim deactivated his Twitter account, as well as what bad behavior by Latter-day Saints online means for the Church as a whole.
April 2024 Conference Recap
Send us a textIan and Jim review the highlights and lowlights of the latest General Conference and celebrate the long-awaited announcement of a new temple in Scotland.
A Musical Conversation with James Burnham
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by James Burnham, who shares his faith journey along with two lovely songs, one of which is an original James Burnham composition.
A Conversation with Bishop Graeme Stocks
Send us a textIan and Jim speak with Graeme Stocks, who is currently serving as the bishop of the Dewsbury Ward in Yorkshire, England.
Musket Fire Revisited
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss BYU's decision to bring Elder Holland's controversial "musket fire" talk out of mothballs and make it the subject of a new course for incoming freshmen.
A Conversation with Peter Bleakley
Send us a textIan and Jim have a wide-ranging conversation with Peter Bleakley, one of the founding members of the Britvengers and a passionate advocate for reform in the Church.
The Kirtland Temple
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the sale of the Kirtland Temple and other historical sites and artifacts, and they try to get to the bottom of the century-old question: who is Elias?
Bob Bennett's Final Fireside
Send us a textThis episode includes an AI-enhanced version of Senator Robert F. Bennett's fireside on The Book of Mormon given on April 10, 2016, three weeks before his death. Ian and Jim discuss the fireside and the impact of The Book of Mormon on the Church and their individual lives.
A Conversation with Anthony Miller
Send us a textIan and Jim have a conversation with Anthony Miller, a former Church member in a mixed-faith marriage who provided support for Ian during his own faith transition.
A Conversation with Roy and Emma Hann
Send us a textIan and Jim have a conversation with Roy and Emma Hann, a couple who were stalwarts of the Church in Scotland for most of their lives. They describe their time in the Church and the events in their faith journey that led them and their thirteen children to leave.
A Conversation with Hans Mattsson
Send us a textIn a rare interview, former Area Authority Seventy Hans Mattson, a man that historian Greg Prince described as "the highest-ranking church official who has gone public with deep concerns" about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, joins Ian and Jim for a provocative discussion about his journey out of the Church. Hans offers candid reflections of his interactions with apostles and other Church leaders, and he describes details of the Church's secretive ritual known as the Second Anointing.
Transgender Baptism
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss a recent transgender baptism, as well as other developments that seem to signal greater LGBTQ inclusion in the Church.
A Conversation with Chelsea and Lorraine Goodrich
Send us a textChelsea Goodrich, an integrative psychotherapist from Hailey, Idaho who was featured by the Associated Press for her compelling and heart-wrenching story of sexual abuse within the Church, returns to Inside Out to tell more of her harrowing story. Only this time, she is joined by her mother, Lorraine Goodrich.
Aaron Sherinian and Things That Will Never, Ever, Ever Change
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the hiring of Aaron Sherinian as the Church's new Managing Director of Church Communications and what that means for the Church's position on LGBTQ rights.
A Trumpy Trial of Jim Bennett's Faith
Send us a textIan supervises as Jim goes off on why Donald Trump is a massive trial of his personal faith.
A Conversation with Irene Gilmour
Send us a textIrene Gilmour, a former Latter-day Saint from Scotland, joins Ian and Jim to recount her experience in the Church, most notably a service mission she served in Costa Rica that went traumatically awry.
A Conversation with Chelsea Goodrich
Send us a textIn their final episode of 2023, Ian and Jim have a groundbreaking conversation with Chelsea Goodrich, an integrative psychotherapist from Hailey, Idaho who was featured by the Associated Press for her compelling and heart-wrenching story of sexual abuse within the Church. Chelsea shares more details of her story and her own faith journey, focusing on what she calls the "weaponizing of forgiveness."
Sexual Abuse in the Church
Send us a textIan and Jim confront the thorny issue of sexual abuse in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Patrick Kearon: Apostle
Send us a textBreaking news! Ian and Jim discuss the exciting announcement of Patrick Kearon as the newest member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
The Incompatibility of Agency and Infallibility
Send us a textIan and Jim revisit the topic of prophetic infallibility and discuss the reasons why agency and infallibility are wholly incompatible.
Remembering M. Russell Ballard
Send us a textIan and Jim go "straight through" the life of Elder M. Russell Ballard, sharing personal experiences with him and reviewing his complicated legacy.(The "straight through" thing is clever in context.)
A Robust Conversation with Les Cairns
Send us a textIan and Jim are joined by Les Cairns, a Church leader in Scotland with a different perspective than George Stewart. The "robust" discussion focuses on Les's experience in the Church and the problems of the false doctrine of prophetic infallibility.
The Holy Ghost and the CES Letter
Send us a textIan and Jim begin a conversation about the CES Letter with a focus on the section discussing the Holy Ghost. When do you know it's really the Holy Ghost? And is Mufasa from The Lion King real?
A Conversation with George Stewart
Send us a textIn this episode, Ian and Jim have their first guest! George Stewart, a former bishop and former member of the Edinburgh Scotland Stake Presidency, discusses his faith journey and his decades of Church service, as well as his departure from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Theodicy
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the age-old question of why God allows bad things to happen to good people. How often does God intervene in our lives? Does the Church provide any unique answers to these questions?
Prophecies of a Future Church
Send us a textIan and Jim examine recently released Church growth numbers and predict what this means for the Church's future. In the meantime, Ian commits his entire life to getting recognized by LDSBot.com.
General Conference Part II: Think Celestial!
Send us a textIan and Jim finish their discussion of General Conference with an in-depth analysis of President Nelson's "Think Celestial!" talk. Spoiler: One of them liked it much more than the other one did.
General Conference: Part 1
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the Church's recently concluded General Conference, with specific emphasis on the talk given by President Dallin H. Oaks.
Elder Holland and the BBC
Send us a textIan and Jim review Elder Holland's problematic 2012 interview with the BBC that was a pivotal moment in Ian's decision to leave the Church.
All Things Tim Ballard
Send us a textIan and Jim explore the state of play in the Tim Ballard debacle.
Mission Resonance
Send us a textIan and Jim reflect on how their missionary experience remains resonant in their lives 35 years after the fact.
The Scotland Edinburgh Mission Part II: Tracting with the Spencers - and more!
Send us a textIan and Jim continue to recount their experiences in the Scotland Edinburgh Mission from 1987-1989. Beware of missionary couples with racist nicknames for Brazil nuts!
The Scotland Edinburgh Mission
Send us a textIan and Jim recount their time in the Scotland Edinburgh Mission in the late 1980s.
Protecting Children
Send us a textThis episode is a discussion from the Mormonish podcast about recent changes in the UK's child protection laws and how they impact the Church. It features both Ian and Jim, as well as Mormonish's Rebecca Biblioteca and Landon Brophy, and a special appearance by Sam Young, who fought to keep Church leaders from asking sexually explicit questions in youth interviews.
The Policy of Exclusion
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the public and personal impact of the 2015 Church handbook policy that denied blessings and baptism to the children of gay parents.
Growth
Send us a textIs the Church growing? What can be done to help it grow? Ian and Jim explore the stats, cask the hard questions, and come up with some possible answers. (Spoiler: counting baptisms for the dead as church growth is not the answer.)
Ian on the Way Out
Send us a textIan recounts the heartbreaking and compelling circumstances that led him from serving in a stake presidency to leaving the Church.
Ian's Story: The Perils of Leadership
Send us a textWe continue with Ian Wilks's personal story, which involves his return from his mission and his call into church leadership. This touches on many of the themes we've explored in depth in previous episodes.
Contention, Division, and Schism
Send us a textJim recounts his contentious exchange with another podcaster and discusses the contention within the Church that has driven him off of Twitter. Ian and Jim then discuss the divisions within the Church that fall upon theological and political lines. How much do these divisions damage the Church? And could they lead to a significant schism at some point down the road?
Ian's Mission: Trauma and Triumph
Send us a textIan's story continues as he discusses his mission in Scotland, which is where Ian and Jim met. They commiserate over a particularly difficult mutual companion, and Jim recounts trauma that has spilled over to the next generation. There's also a dead cat, a practicing witch, and the incredible healing properties of Ian's used bathwater.
Ian's Story: Part III - The Temple and the Beginning of the Mission
Send us a textIn this episode, Ian recounts his first experience going through the temple and goes on to discuss the beginning of his mission - and both Ian and Jim recount stories of what happens when missionaries tracting in a cold, wet country find themselves sitting in front of a roaring fire after a long day.
Ian's Story: Part II - Baptism and Beyond
Send us a textIn Part II of Ian Wilks's conversion story, Ian shares his joy at being baptized and the pain of being rejected by his family as a result. He discusses being homeless alongside his dog Shep, and how the ward rallied around him to literally save his life.
Ian's Story: Part I
Send us a textThe first of several episodes exploring Ian Wilks's conversion to and ultimate departure from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There's also a story about a live pheasant flying around inside a car...
The Missionary Program
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the past, present, and future of the Church's missionary program, offering colorful tales from their own missions along the way.
Don't Read the Comments!
Send us a textIan and Jim break the First Rule of Internet Publishing: Don't Read the Comments!
The Lord Forgives. The Computer Doesn't.
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the perfect and permanent memory of church records and the Strengthening Church Members Committee.
The Church and Politics
Send us a textPolitics and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have long been inseparable, and Ian and Jim try to make sense of it from both inside and outside the Church, as well as inside and outside the United States.
Temple Changes
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss the things that you're allowed to discuss with regard to the recent changes to the temple endowment ceremony. CORRECTION: In the original version of this episode, Jim erroneously stated that Dan McClellan had "resigned from the Church," when what he meant was that Dr. McClellan had resigned only from Church employment. The original audio file has been replaced with a version that no longer contains the erroneous statement.
What the Church Gets Right
Send us a textIan and Jim discuss how the Church is a remarkable force for good in the lives of so many people, as well as how and why that stops when people step outside the boundaries of the Church.
Unity in an Imperfect Church
Send us a textUsing Elder Kevin Hamilton's comments about how references to the Church and Jesus Christ are interchangeable as a catalyst for discussion, Ian and Jim discuss the challenges of disunity at every level of the Church and consider different approaches to an age-old problem.
Problematic Scriptures
Send us a textHow should the Church handle problematic scriptures and teachings that we no longer believe?