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All Episodes - Secrets of Story Podcast

Podcast by Matt Bird and James Kennedy

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40 Episodes

The Final Episode in this Feed: Another preview of "A Good Story Well Told"! thumbnail

The Final Episode in this Feed: Another preview of "A Good Story Well Told"!

05/01/2025 65 min 35 sec

It's another episode of Matt's new podcast, "A Good Story Well Told" with Jonathan Auxier, this time discussing "The Giver", but from now on, to get new content, you'll have to subscribe to the "A Good Story Well Told" feed. Meanwhile, this feed will remain active so you can enjoy the wonderful archives of Matt and James's content.

Introducing a new podcast: A Good Story Well Told with Jonathan Auxier thumbnail

Introducing a new podcast: A Good Story Well Told with Jonathan Auxier

04/18/2025 42 min 2 sec

It's a special preview of the first episode of Matt's new podcast with Jonathan Auxier: A Good Story Well Told. Search for and subscribe to the new podcast to get a second episode now!

Live Show: Capturing the Nature of Children with Betsy Bird thumbnail

Live Show: Capturing the Nature of Children with Betsy Bird

09/16/2024 45 min 43 sec

Recorded Live at The Book Stall in Winnetka, IL, hosted by the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators, James and Matt welcome the legendary Betsy Bird to tackle a topic all three know something about: Capturing the Voices of Children in Your Writing. Matt argues that novels that feature truly authentic kids are by definition not children's books, and James and Betsy debate him on that.

Episode 47: The Heroine's Labyrinth with Douglas A. Burton thumbnail

Episode 47: The Heroine's Labyrinth with Douglas A. Burton

06/24/2024 86 min 29 sec

Matt and James welcome author Douglas A. Burton to discuss his new book The Heroine's Labyrinth! Matt blurbed it and said "The Heroine's Labyrinth is filled with profound and unique observations on the topic of story structure, no matter what the gender of your protagonist. Burton closely analyzes a wide breadth of stories and proves his thesis that Joseph Campbell missed half the story." James agrees and we dive into some of Douglas's many interesting new archetypes!

Episode 46: Organizing Chaos with Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin thumbnail

Episode 46: Organizing Chaos with Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin

01/16/2024 59 min 27 sec

Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin return to discuss novelists' relationship with editors, whether freelance or at a publisher. All four of us have been on one side of that divide or another, and most of us more than one, and we have a grand old time discussing it.

Episode 45: Specific vs. Generic (Or is it Factual vs. Archetypal?) thumbnail

Episode 45: Specific vs. Generic (Or is it Factual vs. Archetypal?)

12/07/2023 71 min 24 sec

It's always good to load up your story with specifics, right? Not so fast! James talks about his decision to leave some information out of his new novel Bride of the Tornado, and Matt quibbles.

Episode 44: Putting the Secrets of Story Into Action with Torrey Maldonado thumbnail

Episode 44: Putting the Secrets of Story Into Action with Torrey Maldonado

10/19/2023 84 min 53 sec

Matt and James welcome acclaimed novelist Torrey Maldonado to talk about how he's put Matt's advice into action for his books for young people (much to James's chagrin)

Episode 43: Writing Every Day with Brock Swinson thumbnail

Episode 43: Writing Every Day with Brock Swinson

06/26/2023 67 min 24 sec

Matt and James are joined by author Brock Swinson and discuss his new book of writing advice Ink by the Barrel. All three of us agree that writers must write every day and then sheepishly admit that we don't actually do that. Download Brock's book for free at BrockSwinson.com and check out his podcast Creative Principles!

Episode 42: Mackendrick's Rules, the Epic Conclusion thumbnail

Episode 42: Mackendrick's Rules, the Epic Conclusion

06/19/2023 52 min 56 sec

Alexander Mackendrick summed up the wisdom that film schools (and MFA programs in general) hand down to writers. Is it helpful or poisonous? In this episode, Matt and James finish examining and questioning his 41 rules.

Episode 41: Mackendrick's Rules, Part 2 thumbnail

Episode 41: Mackendrick's Rules, Part 2

06/12/2023 59 min 58 sec

Matt and James once again use the rules of Alexander Mackendrick as a springboard to talk about what makes for a good story. Bonus: Matt posits his theory of what's in the case in Pulp Fiction and completely convinces James!

Episode 40: Mackendrick's Rules, Part 1 thumbnail

Episode 40: Mackendrick's Rules, Part 1

06/06/2023 69 min 49 sec

The great filmmaker Alexander Mackendrick famously passed along 41 rules of writing advice and now Matt and James are going to evaluate them all in a three-part epic!

Episode 39: Agents thumbnail

Episode 39: Agents

02/02/2023 82 min 52 sec

James and Matt discuss their checkered history of getting agents/managers, failing to hold onto them, and getting new ones, with lots of tips for the unagented! Check out lots of supplemental materials on SecretsOfStory.com.

Episode 38: AI thumbnail

Episode 38: AI

12/24/2022 57 min 10 sec

Can a computer do our jobs? Matt puts it to the test and James scoffs, as is his wont.

Episode 37: Craft in the Real World thumbnail

Episode 37: Craft in the Real World

11/02/2022 73 min 50 sec

The long-awaited return! James and Matt reunite to discuss Matthew Salesses' book Craft in the Real World. Matt is worried about offending anyone and James is less so!

Episode 36: Save the Cat with Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin thumbnail

Episode 36: Save the Cat with Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin

04/04/2022 55 min 55 sec

Special guests Sophie Beal and Gary Dalkin join us to debate the merits of the most infamous writing guide of all, Blake Snyder's Save the Cat

Episode 35: Co-Authoring and Transgression with Keir Graff and Linda Joffe Hull thumbnail

Episode 35: Co-Authoring and Transgression with Keir Graff and Linda Joffe Hull

12/20/2021 79 min 28 sec

A whopping two guests join us to discuss the feat of co-authoring three thrillers as "Linda Keir", including "The Swing of Things", which leads to a discussion of whether or not transgression need always be punished in American literature.

Episode 34: Building Character Voice thumbnail

Episode 34: Building Character Voice

11/16/2021 79 min 57 sec

James and Matt discuss Metaphor Families, Default Personality Traits, and Default Argument Tactics. James quotes great wisdom forgetting that he's quoting Matt, and Matt heaps praise on James's new book-- It's a kumbaya love fest!

Episode 33: Niceness, Apologies and PTSD thumbnail

Episode 33: Niceness, Apologies and PTSD

10/29/2021 70 min 49 sec

James checks in on a prediction he made years ago (in Episode 4) that stories would start getting nicer. As it turns out, Ted Lasso proved him right!

Episode 32: Notes thumbnail

Episode 32: Notes

09/24/2021 72 min 19 sec

Matt and James have a contentious history of giving (or not giving) feedback to each other, and they reveal some big philosophical differences on the fraught topic of how to give and receive notes.

Episode 31: Irony thumbnail

Episode 31: Irony

08/27/2021 69 min 55 sec

Matt and James discuss 14 types of Irony and use Casablanca, Blazing Saddles and Mulan as examples.

Episode 30: Genre, Burgers, and Alien with Jonathan Auxier thumbnail

Episode 30: Genre, Burgers, and Alien with Jonathan Auxier

07/30/2021 48 min 3 sec

Jonathan Auxier returns for a record fifth time to discuss what he originally wanted to discuss last time: Genre, how it is like burgers, and what this all has to do with the movie Alien. James then high-roads us with some classical music cues.

Episode 29: Author Draft, Artifact Draft, Audience Draft with Jonathan Auxier thumbnail

Episode 29: Author Draft, Artifact Draft, Audience Draft with Jonathan Auxier

07/15/2021 48 min 16 sec

Jonathan Auxier returns again with his best idea yet: Everything you write should have an Author Draft, an Artifact Draft, and an Audience Draft.

Episode 28: The Order of Odd-Fish thumbnail

Episode 28: The Order of Odd-Fish

05/29/2021 50 min 27 sec

Matt and James examine James's first novel to see if it matches some of the writing rules we've discussed over the years.

Episode 27: Orphan, Wanderer, Warrior, Martyr with Lou Anders thumbnail

Episode 27: Orphan, Wanderer, Warrior, Martyr with Lou Anders

04/20/2021 71 min 9 sec

Last episode's guest Lou Anders returns with more storytelling tricks, including a way to break your story into four quarters: Orphan, Wanderer, Warrior, and Martyr.

Episode 26: The Eight Character Wheel with Lou Anders thumbnail

Episode 26: The Eight Character Wheel with Lou Anders

03/19/2021 47 min 33 sec

Matt and James welcome the delightful novelist Lou Anders who expands on Head Heart Gut with a list of eight archetypes hiding in many great stories.

Episode 25: Cult Thinking thumbnail

Episode 25: Cult Thinking

01/25/2021 78 min 7 sec

James has an elaborate theory about how writing is like cult indoctrination. Matt tries to keep up.

Episode 24: Agency with Parker Peevyhouse thumbnail

Episode 24: Agency with Parker Peevyhouse

12/08/2020 53 min 10 sec

Parker Peevyhouse returns to ask about when a character should break their own rules, which results in discussion of The Mandalorian, Knives Out, and whether superhero movies suck. Check out this blog post we cite a few times: http://www.secretsofstory.com/2018/09/rulebook-casefile-three-rules-vs.html

Episode 23: Head Heart Gut thumbnail

Episode 23: Head Heart Gut

11/17/2020 56 min 25 sec

We’re back! Matt and James have a rousing discussion of Head, Heart and Gut (And Spleen, and Groin, and Spirit, and a zillion other permutations…) Read more about and see neat charts here: http://www.secretsofstory.com/2017/05/head-heart-gut-aka-how-to-create.html

Episode 22: The Holy Moment thumbnail

Episode 22: The Holy Moment

10/16/2020 57 min 52 sec

James has advice for writing opening scenes and Matt basically agrees with him for once. Plus, James almost gets hit by a meteor and Matt sings the praises of Minneapolis Community and Technical College.

Episode 21: Franchise Finales with Jonathan Auxier thumbnail

Episode 21: Franchise Finales with Jonathan Auxier

10/01/2020 85 min 25 sec

Returning guest Jonathan Auxier stops by to discuss franchise finales, because he's about to write one himself. It's another long one!

Episode 20: The Man Who Won the War thumbnail

Episode 20: The Man Who Won the War

10/01/2020 74 min 39 sec

Do writers lose something when they actually learn to write? In this episode, James and Matt look at the script that got Matt signed and consider that question. If you want, you can download the script at SecretsOfStory.com and read along at home!

Episode 21: Franchise Finales thumbnail

Episode 21: Franchise Finales

10/01/2020 0 min 1 sec

Returning guest Jonathan Auxier stops by to discuss Franchise Finales, because he's about to write one himself. It's another long one!

Episode 19: Alienation and Identification thumbnail

Episode 19: Alienation and Identification

10/01/2020 53 min 21 sec

Matt and James discuss Matt's upcoming book and debate about lots of things. And, inevitably, James tosses off two more 'E's.

Episode 18: Michael Arndt and Insanely Great Endings thumbnail

Episode 18: Michael Arndt and Insanely Great Endings

07/14/2020 58 min 46 sec

James and Matt discuss endings and a video by Michael Arndt (https://vimeo.com/238637906), plus a bonus pun!

Episode 17: Two More Character Tricks thumbnail

Episode 17: Two More Character Tricks

06/30/2020 53 min 9 sec

James has two more E's for us, and the long-awaited return of Free Story Ideas ...sort of.

Episode 16: Neat Tricks for Creating Compelling Characters thumbnail

Episode 16: Neat Tricks for Creating Compelling Characters

05/07/2020 56 min 3 sec

James still wants to add to Believe Care Invest. He pitches Isolation (appropriately enough) and then five tricks all starting with E. Can he convince Matt?

Episode 15: Should Novelists Follow Screenwriting Advice, featuring Parker Peevyhouse thumbnail

Episode 15: Should Novelists Follow Screenwriting Advice, featuring Parker Peevyhouse

01/19/2020 58 min 28 sec

Acclaimed Novelist Parker Peevyhouse stops by and she's got a question: Should novelists follow screenwriting advice? Much debate is had!

Episode 14: Involuntary Notes thumbnail

Episode 14: Involuntary Notes

12/15/2019 79 min 38 sec

James gives Matt some good advice on a Free Story Idea, so Matt turns it onto a beatsheet and submits it to James' judgment. Lots of Yes-Anding!

Episode 13: The Moment of Grace thumbnail

Episode 13: The Moment of Grace

12/01/2019 56 min 19 sec

James tries to convince Matt that every great ending has a "Moment of Grace" where the hero submits to a higher power. Matt is skeptical.

Episode 12: Hollywoodization thumbnail

Episode 12: Hollywoodization

09/03/2019 76 min 43 sec

Matt and James discuss the power and peril of Hollywoodizing various examples of sci-fi short fiction. Long but fun!

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