Called to the Bar: International Law over Drinks

In this episode Dr Juliette McIntyre is joined by Professor Beatrice Bonafè (Université Paris Panthéon-Assas) and Dr Matina Papadaki (University of Glasgow) for a lively discussion on one of international law’s most suddenly fashionable procedural topics: intervention before the International Court of Justice. From the once-obscure provisions of Articles 62 and 63 of the ICJ Statute to the recent explosion of intervention requests in contentious proceedings, the conversation explores how and why third states seek to participate in cases before the Court. Along the way, the episode unpacks the distinction between intervention “as of right” and intervention by request, the historical underuse of these mechanisms, and the remarkable procedural shift visible in recent genocide litigation and other high-profile disputes. Beatrice and Matina reflect on the practical and conceptual tensions underpinning intervention practice, including transparency, procedural fairness, judicial administration, and the relationship between procedure and substance in international adjudication. The discussion also turns to academic life and career pathways into international law, with both guests sharing the winding journeys that led them from Athens, Rome, Geneva, Copenhagen and beyond to their current positions in Paris and Glasgow. Recommendations: Juliette McIntyre, ‘Procedural Values in the Intervention Procedure at the International Court of Justice’ [2022] Ukrainian Law Review Beatrice I. Bonafè, ‘Impacts of substance on procedure: Genocide litigation before the ICJ’ [2025] Questions of International Law Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of au Lait

In this episode of Called to the Bar: International Law Over Drinks, Tamsin Phillipa Paige (Deakin) and Imogen Saunders (ANU) are joined by Dimitrios A. Kourtis (Aristotle University of Thessaloniki) to discuss his new book, The Development and Application of the International Law of State Immunity: The Greek Perspective. The conversation begins with a rich reflection on Dimitrios’ intellectual journey into international law - from rural central Greece to the study of genocide, sovereignty, and international criminal law - before turning to the doctrine of state immunity itself. What does it mean for one state to be immune from the jurisdiction of another state’s courts? Why has immunity historically been understood as an expression of sovereign equality? And how have these principles evolved in response to human rights claims, reparations litigation, and contemporary demands for accountability? Drawing on the Greek experience, the episode explores how a so-called “semi-peripheral” state has played an unexpectedly significant role in shaping debates around jurisdictional immunity, enforcement immunity, and the relationship between sovereignty and justice. Along the way, the panel unpacks major doctrinal tensions, historical controversies, and the enduring question of whether immunity protects international order, or shields power from scrutiny. Recommendations: The Development and Application of the International Law of State Immunity: The Greek Perspective, https://www.sakkoulas.gr/en/editions/d-kourtis-the-development-and-application-of-the-international-law-of-state-immunity-2025/ Recipe Tin Eats: https://www.recipetineats.com/ Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of au Lait

In this episode Associate Professor Imogen Saunders is joined by Dr Rumyana van Ark and Professor Kim Rubenstein to discuss citizenship, security, and the rights of children in the context of Australians held in camps in North East Syria. Prompted by recent debate over the so-called “ISIS brides”, the conversation asks what citizenship means when citizens are abroad, what obligations states owe to their nationals, and how those questions become even more urgent when children are involved. Kim Rubenstein explains the uncertain place of citizenship in Australian constitutional law, the limits of diplomatic protection, and the dangers of using citizenship deprivation as a tool of punishment or security policy. Rumyana van Ark examines the position of children in the camps through the lens of international children’s rights, counter-terrorism law, and the practical consequences of prolonged detention, repatriation delays, and statelessness. Together, they explore the uneasy relationship between national security and human rights; the vulnerability of dual citizens; the gendered and racialised dimensions of citizenship stripping; and the risks of treating children associated with foreign fighters as security threats rather than rights holders. The episode also reflects on “security populism”, the limits of existing international legal frameworks, and why repatriation, prosecution where appropriate, rehabilitation, and reintegration may be not only more rights-compliant, but also better security policy. Recommendations: ‘Security and Human Rights’ (2nd ed.) by Benjamin J Goold and Liora Lazarus (eds.)(https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/security-and-human-rights-9781849467308/) ‘Europe’s Guantanamo: The indefinite detention of European women and children in North East Syria’, Rights & Security International (https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/children-s-rights-foreign-fighters-counter-terrorism-9781800377110.html) ‘Children’s Rights, ‘Foreign Fighters’, Counter-Terrorism: Children of Nowhere’ by Rumyana van Ark, Devyani Prabhat and Faith Gordon (https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/children-s-rights-foreign-fighters-counter-terrorism-9781800377110.html) 'Allegiance and Identity in a Globalised World’ by edited Fiona Jenkins, Mark Nolan and Kim Rubenstein (https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/allegiance-and-identity-in-a-globalised-world/allegiance-and-identity-in-a-globalised-world) Kim Rubenstien and Niamh Lenagh-Maguire, 'More or less secure? Nationality questions, deportation and dual nationality’ (https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/nationality-and-statelessness-under-international-law/more-or-less-secure-nationality-questions-deportation-and-dual-nationality) 'The vulnerability of dual citizenship in Australia | Kim Rubenstein | TEDxFulbrightCanberra’ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51B8aA1UCWM) Music: Sam Barsh, Oils of au lait