Behind the Seams

Two stories, one from Bangladesh and another from Indonesia. In both places, family needs meant that garment factory work was the best option from a very young age, despite other dreams and talents. Confronting the realities of exploitation and abuse in those workplaces brought profound realisations of collective possibilities, and also of personal strengths.   Links and contacts Griffith Review: griffithreview.com Matthew Abud (producer): [email protected] Clean Clothes Campaign: cleanclothes.org Patch Pheasant (bass player): [email protected]   Transcript   Kalpona Akter (KP): My name is Kalpona Akter. I am from Bangladesh. So, we, you know, we were like kind of middle-class family. So my life would be going to school, playing with siblings, playing with friends. Uh, it's like all focusing on my study and also helping my mum with the household work as I was the eldest in the family. So, my life was easy like other, other child. So the life basically, clearly changed when I was like 11-ish. So 11, little plus, when my dad got ill, he got a stroke, and he was the primary earner in the family. So, my mum first started working in the factory. She left two months infant at home. And she couldn't continue more than six months because of, you know, baby got ill and mum got ill as well. So then it was me who started working in the factory. Mum said, it is time. Because we had a little discussion on it, two of us, and I understood. It's like, you know, I suddenly got older, and I understood what she said. It was tough being a child in the factory. My first day in the factory was like absolute, absolutely a cultural shock. I haven't seen that many people together. And I never heard that big sound together that was, you know, coming from the machines in the production floor. I haven't heard that adult screaming on the adults and verbally abusing them. So all those was like very, very new to me. You know, as a, as a person, I'm always being strong inside. So, I didn't cry. But I felt really sad, seeing the situation. It was hard, and very first day, I stood up like 14 hours to 16 hours. So I get off from the factory like 10:30 p.m. and it was tough. I was stood up in my feet for whole day. So, I would be working over 450 hours or over 400 hours and making only $6 a month. I could see my school playground from my factory rooftop. So during lunch break, we were able to go there, and that was like one big pain that I got like every day, seeing my friends are playing in the playground and I was in the factory. Mbak Titin (MB): So, I stayed home. Just me and my second older sibling, who was two years above me in the same school. That was it. Only the two of us at home. We cooked together, we ate together. We were two small children, cooking by themselves in their house. On the way home from school, we'd gather dry straw from the rice fields. Then later, when there was no rain, when there was drought, we'd sell it. Then when I passed middle school, I was inspired by a midwife in my village. She had a clinic and went around in a car. And it can bring honour to the family. So, I told my parents and also my older sibling, who was working in Malaysia at that time, that I wanted to go to nursing school. Then I and two others enrolled in the nursing school in Jepara town. My marks were high enough to enrol me. But I was too short for their criteria. They said that if I paid $200, I could study in that school. My parents and my older sibling wanted to get that money any way possible. But I thought about my parents' financial situation. It was really poor. So, if I insisted on going to school, they'd get in a lot of debt. So against their own wishes, I said, I wasn't interested any more in studying. I decided that, also because I was offered a job at a factory called Nikomas Gemilang in Serang City. I started there, hoping that I could earn some money to help support my family. I didn't want my father to have to migrate any more looking for work. I wanted him to enjoy his old age together with my mother. I'd be able to install a well so my mother could have water. I could pay to connect electricity to the house. I could pay for a proper toilet. Those kind of things. Matthew Abud, Producer (MA): We're sharing stories from several different garment workers, including in languages other than English, performed by voice actors. Can you introduce yourself and who's story you're presenting? Sekar Sari (SS): Hello, my name is Sekar. I'm performing as Titin from Indonesia. I think Mbak Titin is someone who has so many layers of identities. She was an entrepreneur who sell some clothes from door to door, and she did so many things. She never stops, like, standing up again for herself and other people she loves. KA: Two years after my work, I was like barely 14 years old, we went for a strike in our factory. We were like 1800 workers. So, it was two days back and forth. After that, we won the strike. And then we went for, you know, three days' Eid vacation. When we came back, they started firing the workers, those was the, those was in the front line. And seven days, we haven't heard from them. And after seven days, they came back and they were telling me and my co-workers that, You know, we sued the factory owner. I was like, what? How we can even sue these factory owners because they're so powerful, and they have money. And they said, we did it. There is a organization helping the workers to do that. On top of that, we learned the law that protect us. And I was like, wow. I couldn't even connect. And they say, then they said that, you know, there is a labour law training and we feel you should come. So I went there and it was like four hours long class, which is completely changed my life. The first time I heard that I'm a worker, apart from human or any anything that my management call me, like stupid, idiot, sometime like even whore, or anything. So apart from that, you know, I'm a worker. And my work shift is should be eight hours. I should paid double for my overtime. There is a minimum wage, there is a, you know, the supervisor cannot slap on me for a minor mistake. There is a leave, you know, sick leave or I should not work during my weekend. And something beautiful I learned that I have right to organize, I have right to bargain. I was like, wow. Wow. I consider this a second born for me. So in the following morning, I went to the factory and it was like, you know, butterfly in my stomach. I really wanted to share this with my co-worker. And you know, I was like started whispering them, you know, I learned these and they were like, wait. Wait till lunch break. So during lunch break, we went to outside of the factory and couple of us we were discussing these. It is, you know, mixed group like child, adolescent, and elders. And when I share with them, this is what I learned, and this is what we can do. And everyone was like, let's do it. So this is how the organizing began in my life. MB: I first got involved in union work in 2018. Why? Back then, I saw that there were colleagues who had been working for 25 years, some of them for 20 years, some for 30 years. But when their jobs ended, they didn't get the entitlements that they were owed from all that time. They only got about $1,500. Back then, there was one woman. She had a disability. We were in the bathroom, and she suddenly started crying, and hugged me. She said, "Tin, I've been fired, with this tiny severance pay." She was crying. I was crying. I knew that she suffered domestic violence from her husband at home. She also wasn't able to give enough attention to her child because of work. I couldn't sleep for two days, because I was thinking about what happened to her. I was confused. This person had told me her troubles, but I couldn't do anything about it. At that point, a friend of mine, called Sofia, she invited us to unionize. She said, we can't stay like this, Tin. If we do, later we'll just go through exactly the same thing. So, 15 of us gathered at my place and we decided we'd unionize. But we didn't want to go public. It was just, if something happened then, if we needed to, we'd work together. But the more time passed, the more we suffered. Even though we'd come together like a union, the verbal abuse continued. Extortion in the workplace continued. Then a colleague of mine became pregnant and she was fired. She was told to resign. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore. Whenever someone became pregnant, they were told to resign. I couldn't stand it any longer. That afternoon, when I left work, I went to the union office of the FSBPI. I said, I'm ready to formalize our union and go public.  KA: I think in 2010, the government has de-registered our organization registration. They frozen our bank account. In the same year, I got arrested with my two of co-worker. We were supporting workers' voice to increase the minimum wage and they, the government and manufacturers, they found our voice critical, so they fabricated, you know, they brought fabricated charges against us. It was it was 14 different criminal charge were being facing. I was in the prison for month and you know, has been severely or mentally tortured in the, in the police custody. Like it was really painful. Even it is like 2 a.m. in the morning, they would call me and interrogate, like asking same question million times. And it was so disrespectful as a human. It was so ugly. It was so inhuman. It was like I'm from 18th century when people will be thinking others as a slave. And you know, every time the security intelligence would be like tapping our phones, go trying going through our emails, visiting our centres, harassing us. And I think other was like losing my co-worker, Aminul Islam, in back 2012, who has been disappeared and his body has been found 100 km away from the place he disappeared. Aminul was one of the amazing organizer in our team we have had, who was fearless, and he's from workers, you know his background, he was a factory worker. And later we found his autopsy report says he has been brutally tortured and beaten to death. And even today, we are still waiting for justice for his murder. MT: In the Tainan factory, here we've advocated on many cases now. I think we've been successful in around 90% of them. I've even been advocating in a sexual abuse case. This case has already been going on for a full year, and I've faced discrimination, even threats, because of this. They said, "If you keep talking like this, then later you might even be reported to the police yourself." So what happened was, the police came to the factory and handed me a letter. It said that the next day, I had to go to the police station to answer questions. I was shocked. I thought, "Why have I been accused of a crime? What's the reason?" It turned out that I was accused of smearing someone's good name, of damaging their reputation. But where was I supposed to have done this? I never spoke to the media about this case, or anything like that. It turned out that the complaint to the police, it came from the person who had taken the minutes at the meeting we had about the case with the factory's security investigation team. We've had many meetings there before and nobody ever came to take the minutes. But at that meeting, someone did. Well, the police asked me to prove it. To prove that I hadn't damaged the reputation of the perpetrator. I was even more shocked than before. I wanted to laugh. Why was I the one being asked to prove something? I realized the key thing that the police wanted to know. They want to know who was the victim of this abuse. What her name was, where she comes from. But this was a sexual abuse case. It's really clear that we cannot mention the victim's name if she's not ready for that. Who was the person we were supposed to protect here? They don't know how to handle a sexual abuse case. And if I wasn't really careful, if I made a mistake and mentioned her name, the victim wouldn't recover psychologically. And the perpetrator is still working at the factory to this day. Really. Women. We make up 90% of the factory workers. So this makes everything uncomfortable. Really uncomfortable. Even now, the business is still going along, with its eyes closed. I'm still going to push on with this case. Because for me, sexual abuse is not a trivial thing. It's traumatic, what the victim is facing. And she'll keep on carrying this through her life, if it's not handled straight away. Why do I say this? Because I feel it myself. I'm also a victim. And I've also felt this same thing. When I was about five years old, I went through something. I went through a tragedy. At that time, I didn't know what it was called. All I knew was that I was in pain, and that I was afraid. Just that. Now I understand that this was sexual abuse. I've never told anyone about this before. I've never told anyone, including my father and mother. Because I didn't want any division in the family. Because the perpetrator, he was a relative. But what happened? My father and mother, it's like they could feel it. They understood what happened, even though they didn't ask me anything about it. Because back then, my mother examined my whole body. And my father and mother took a decision. I went back to our home village with my mother, and went to the school there.  KA: Who do these sexual harassment to the workers? It is most of the time it is middle managers. First of all, the psychology of the men and women, the men always thinks that, you know, they are superior, so they, they can use power. And from the middle managers like giving all kinds of inappropriate offer to the workers that, "Oh, if you wanted to raise your, raise your wage, then you need to go with me somewhere during the weekend, or if you wanted to leave early, this, you know, benefit I need to get from you." So those kind of things is still in here. Like the abuses, I think workers are more vocal than before and it is gradually changing, though it is very minimal. But still, you know, the women started raising their voice.  MT: Before I joined the union, I'd already given up. I despaired at my life. I was at the point of throwing myself in front of a vehicle, because I felt weak. Really worn out. But then, I learned so much. I kept learning. What was the impact? I got a lot of positive energy. It made me stronger. Before, I wasn't able to talk about my past. It was too painful. I kept everything deep inside. But because of all the positive energy that the union introduced to me and all the things I learned that I never knew before, about mental health, about how we can manage our emotions. I was introduced to so many things. And at last, I realized, I could do this. MA: Can you talk a little bit about your response to the story, how you would describe Mbak Titin's character? SS: No matter what Mbak Titin went through, from she was a child, she's able to stand up again to transform her trauma to be a wonderful power that is able to help other people. Her role in the union is something that is so beautiful for me because she's not thinking about herself. It's how solidarity works. KA: The international, you know, solidarity is really matters because all the positive changes that we were able to get in Bangladesh, it was possible because of the international solidarity. We need the consumers to be more, you know, aware about the garments they are buying. The Made-in-Bangladesh clothes is not bad. Please buy them. But buy them with responsibility. Ask more question to these brands that you wanted to know more about these workers. How much they are being paid, you know, in what working condition they are being working? Is this factory safer? Is this factory gender-based violence free? Do these workers have a social protection? If consumers, workers, can work under the international solidarity, that will be a real game changer. MA: This is Behind the Seams, stories from garment workers across the region, for Griffith Review. Thanks for listening. I'm Matthew Abud, the producer of the show. Thanks to Clean Clothes Campaign for their efforts in support of this production. To the Bangladesh Center for Workers Solidarity, and FSBPI in Indonesia. Thanks also to Sekar Sari, voice actor on this episode. And to Shakawat Hussein, in Dhaka. Thanks to Patch Pheasant for the double-bass recording used here. Relevant links and contacts are in the episode show notes. Thanks to Mimmy Kowel in Jakarta. Rest in Peace; turut berduka cita.

One story from Myanmar. An accident in a garment factory has profound impacts on a woman's work, family, and social life, and shows up the attitudes of those with power in stark relief. Resistance and persistence bring some wins, but challenges remain immense, especially under Myanmar's military dictatorship.   Links and contacts Griffith Review: griffithreview.com Matthew Abud (producer): [email protected] Clean Clothes Campaign: cleanclothes.org Patch Pheasant (bass player): [email protected]   Transcript Matthew Abud, Producer (MA): This is Behind the Seams. A quick note that the story in this episode comes from Myanmar, also called Burma. Garment Worker (GW): I am now 29 years old. At the factory, there were shirts and also trousers. I had to iron the small pockets, that kind of thing. I sewed for the Primark brand. On October 3rd, 2020, when COVID was happening, they asked me to attach fusing to the small trousers. I told my leader that I wasn't very skilled. I was scared to do it, you know? My leader said, "Do it. You're quick." So, I had to do it. I was terrified. They made me rush to finish the pieces. They said, "Hey, hurry up with the ironing." So, I had to work, quickly. As I grabbed the garment, my hand got caught in the machine. I was caught for eight seconds. It was stuck. When it was finally freed, I was taken to the factory clinic, but the nurse didn't do much. They sent me to the hospital. They put some medicine on it. When it happened, they did nothing. They just went on with their work. In the hospital, it was just me and my mother. My mother came. She said, "Oh my God, what happened to you?" My mother took care of me. It was only me and my mother in the hospital. My husband? He left. On the same day as the accident. The day my hand got injured, the day I was admitted, he wasn't there. He ran away. Why did he come back now? It's because I reported it to his father. His father must have told him, "You have a daughter. She should be with both her parents." So, he came back to reconcile. My child was six years old then. I only have one child. Just one. She's in the second grade now.   After about six months, I called my manager and told him I was coming back to work. I asked if I could come back. He said, "You can't come back. I have already fired you." I said, "Really? How could you have fired me?" He said, "Well, the other people told me to fire you." So, I went to the Labour Office. I talked to a senior person there. He said, "You can't fire her. Her hand is disabled, and you have to guarantee her a job." The manager refused. He said, "She's fired." Then the official said, "Where's her signature? Where's her dismissal letter? If you fired her, do you have the document? Does it have her signature?" They said, "No." The official said, "Then you have to rehire her. You have to rehire this girl." They put me in the thread cutting department. I can't do too much because of my disabled hand. They scolded me, saying I was disabled. They scolded me. Tears came to my eyes.   After a month of working, my hand started hurting, like a stinging pain. So, I went to see a doctor. They said they wouldn't guarantee the outcome, but they would have to operate. It would cost 2.5 million kyat. So, I said I would ask my boss and union leaders. At that time, workers' organizations had started to appear. I got involved. I first told the labour leader. They're the ones who help us out. But the factory owner wouldn't pay. The manager said they had done as much as they could, and didn't need to pay anymore. I asked, "What did you do for me? You didn't even give me a water bottle." As I was saying that, the manager berated me. He yelled at me. They offered 1 million in consolation money and 1 million for medical expenses. I refused. I said, if I get the treatment, it will cost 2.5 million. I showed them the doctor's letters and everything, but they refused to pay. Then the leader from the union, STUM, she went there and filed the case for me. She helped me from the very beginning. I am very grateful. Until today, I am grateful for their help. Thank you very much. Well, the hand is better than before. It has improved. It looks like it's peeling. It's because they scraped it, you see? Before this, the fingers were tightly stuck together, and I couldn't move them. That's how it was. They operated here, grafted skin from here. But I can't bend it all the way. I can only do this much. I can only clench it this much. I can't clench it tightly. Just this much is possible. It hurts if I try more. The doctor said it's getting better. That's what he said. But I can't grip or hold things properly. I have to do physical therapy exercises. I can hold things a little, but it's not stable. The factory shut down. I don't know if it was 2022 or 2023. Living became difficult. Because of that, I had to go back to the village. In the village, there were also difficulties. We rented farmland. I had to borrow money from others, you know, at high interest, for the farming. But the fields flooded, and the crops were lost. The mud was deep. It was bad luck. My family members? They told me to fend for myself. They didn't accept me. They wouldn't let me into their house. I couldn't even borrow a cup of rice. To put it simply, they didn't want to see me, or talk to me.   Ingyin Hlaing (IJ): I don't know how a family can do that. If my family would do like that, I would be like, oh, reach the point of suicide, like, yeah. So I'm Ingyin. The story is about the, the girl who like whose hand got injured at work and they didn't take responsibility and how she has a difficult time after that. MA: How does it connect to what you understand, what you know is going on in your country? How does it connect to, you know, the communities, the situation that you have come from as well? IJ: Yeah, I think, I think it really reflects the reality because um there are so many other stories like this as well. And we don't know how people are living. They can't really do much because of the situation and everything. Like, you know, in Myanmar, like rich people always stay rich and like poor people always stay poor. The system's really bad. Yeah.   GW: I have to work. I have to eat and live. The STUM office provides me with a place to stay. So I'm living there. As for food, I get it from here and there, from friends. That's how it is. My husband gives me money when he wants to and doesn't when he doesn't want to. He doesn't give on his own. I have to ask. I say, "I have no money for food and can't get by. Please give me money." When he sends it, it's 50,000, or 100,000, for the child's snack money, and so on. It's not enough. STUM pay hostel fees. It helps a little. Even though it's not enough, we have to make it enough to eat. Without their help, I would have reached the point of suicide. Because the debts are piling up. That's why I thought, I can't keep living like this, and went to look for a job. I couldn't get one. I can't really work. Why? Because my hand aches. The joints ache. I can't work. But I have to. I applied. I'm skilled, you know. They were interested. But because my hand is weak, they didn't want to hire me. The boss said, "Oh, it's the girl with the injured hand. I have your phone number. I'll call you if I need you." They won't call me.   I blame my own life. I get angry at myself because I can't work. Others have healthy hands and feet, and can work. And when they get paid, they are happy. They buy things and are well off. When I used to get paid, it was fine. I would invite my friends, talk, go out to eat, and even my siblings would join. I feel ashamed among my friends and relatives. I blame this hand. Because of my hand, I can't work. I feel depressed. That's how it is.   MA: This is Behind the Seams, stories from garment workers across the region, for Griffith Review. Thanks for listening. I'm Matthew Abud, the producer of the show. Thanks to Clean Clothes Campaign for their efforts in support of this production.  And a big thanks to the Solidarity Trade Union of Myanmar, STUM. During production, the STUM leadership was arrested and detained because of their work organising for labour rights. They are among countless political prisoners detained by the Burmese junta, since the military coup of 2021. There's a little more detail on that in the final episode. You can also follow their case on the Clean Clothes Campaign website. Thanks to Hay Mann Zaw. Thanks also to Ingyin Hlaing, voice actor on this episode. And to Community Radio Maine FM, in Castlemaine. The names of some others who participated in or supported production have not been mentioned, out of security considerations. That includes the storyteller herself. Thanks to Patch Pheasant for the double-bass recording used here. Relevant links and contacts are in the episode show notes.

Two stories of workers from Myanmar in Mae Sot, across the Thailand border. One finds life becomes suddenly precarious when her factory closes after 20-plus years, with full severance pay denied. Another flees the brutal crackdowns of Myanmar's military dictatorship, and learns to sew from scratch in middle age. For both, navigating precarity demands determination in tumultuous times.   Links & contacts Griffith Review: griffithreview.com Matthew Abud (producer): [email protected] Clean Clothes Campaign: cleanclothes.org Patch Pheasant (bass player): [email protected]   Transcript Garment Worker 1 (GW1): Our family really struggled. I failed the 10th grade exam twice. I got married in my early 20s and had two children. Then, people from Mae Sot in Thailand came to recruit. They said they needed workers and asked if we wanted to go. So, my sister went. After about six months, she told me, sister, you can come too, if you want to. And that's how I came here. We Burmese people weren't exactly free. We had to be at the factory before 8:00 a.m. The factory manager built a dormitory for us. It was two stories. We lived in a small, cramped room. In the dormitory for married couples, the space for each couple was about 7 square feet, curtained off. That's where my husband and I kept our water bottles, our lunch boxes, and our curry bowls. Next to us was another couple. In the single women's dormitory, they slept with their feet touching. There was a path down the middle where one person could walk. There was a separate bathroom for boys and girls. And there was a separate dining hall for eating. We just stayed at the factory and we didn't know about the outside world. We only had one day off per month. Only one day off. And on that day off, we would go to the market, buy things for the month, and come back to cook. It wasn't a very free life.   Matthew Abud, Producer (MAbud): This is Matthew. I'm the producer of this podcast. Do you want to introduce yourself and whose story you're performing? Mary Aung (MAung): My name is Mary, and the story that I'm performing for is of a factory worker in Mae Sot. So, Mae Sot is a town in Thailand, which is really close to the border of Myanmar. So many people who face difficult situations, like economically, or because of the political situation, they would flee and Mae Sot would be the first town that they go to. Most of the time these people, they don't have the enough resources to go in the country through legal channels. And normally they will face really bad working situations as well, because they can't really tell the authorities that their employer is exploiting them because they are scared of getting captured.   Garment Worker 2 (GW2): Before - before, I never ever imagined I would work in a garment factory. I never had that thought. Back then, our family was very united. For example, for New Year's, Tazaungdaing Festival, or Thadingyut Festival, for things like that, our family would have parties in the front yard. Our parents would set up a stage, and they would invite all their friends and all of our siblings' friends. They would cook and serve us food, and we'd eat, drink, and have fun together. We could have as much fun as we wanted, as long as we didn't cause any trouble. It was a very happy time. How has it changed? My mind. My mind isn't the same anymore. You see? The kind of mind I had before, the good feelings, it's not there anymore. Now, my family is scattered. My husband is a political prisoner. This kind of separation happened because he was involved in political activism. He was accused in a bombing case and was unjustly arrested and sentenced to 20 years in prison. Before coming here, what did I do? I joined the protest matches. The things I did were many. I joined protest marches and was also involved in supporting others. The family responsibilities have fallen on my shoulders. So, because of that, I can't really think about or give time to that side of things. The main thing now is what should I do? How can I support my family? How can I provide for and raise my children? I have to think about these necessary things so much that my old life has just disappeared.   Voice Actor 2 (VA2): I'm a voice actor. I can totally relate to her. Sounds like kind of similar situation that I've been through back in my country because of this military coup. It must be harder for her to go through because she's got this whole family, she's got children to take care of. That's why I'm very honoured and glad to be her voice, to tell her story. GW1: I was trimming threads. On fleece clothing, there are loose threads. Some you pull out and some you trim. And I did that until the factory closed down. It closed in May 2020. We first realized the factory was going to close when all of our orders completely stopped. In the 20-plus years we'd been working, that had never happened before. We started thinking, hey, our situation isn't good. What's going to happen to our factory? For older workers like me, there were no jobs in Mae Sot. Some of us were also sick. We had no savings. At the end of every month, we will send money to our parents or our families who are still in Burma. So, nobody had any money. So, all of us workers in the factory just sat there, doing nothing. We were just waiting. GW2: When I ran my own business, I was my own boss, a business owner. But now, working in a garment factory, I'm working for someone else. So I've become a worker. The feeling is not good. It's different, you see. I only learned how to sew after coming here. So I'm not skilled. When I make a mistake, they say, You can't even sew this? I have to endure being told off like that. I have to sew a certain number of pieces per hour. I can't meet that because my hands aren't fast enough. The young workers who are senior to me, they don't want to be paired with me. If they are supposed to make 100 pieces in an hour, and my piece has a mistake, it has to be unpicked and re-sewn. So I think, They can do it, so why can't I do it too? I can do it too. I'll make it happen. I always have that kind of mindset. In a whole month, I only get 4,500 Baht. With school fees for two children and family expenses, it's not enough. My labour only covers the house rent, and the water and electricity bills. The work we have to do is excessive. For example, 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. in the evening are reasonable working hours, right? But now, in these small factories, what they make us do is from 8:00 in the morning until 11:00 at night. When we work, there's no proper ventilation. There's no air flow. The dust, the dust from the fabrics, they breathe it in. But they can't afford to be concerned about it. They just prioritize the job. I've seen these things. This job is quite damaging to one's health. GW1: I lived in this factory for over 20 years. So that tiny factory was our life, our world. We felt safe, no matter what happened. When the factory suddenly disappeared, it was like our world was destroyed. Our life was destroyed. The campaign for severance pay was organized by the Yaung Chi Oo Workers' Association. They have been helping us from start to finish to get our labour rights. The amount is 33 million Baht, which the Thai government has ordered them to pay. The one who hasn't paid is the foreign boss from Japan. We won the case, but we still haven't received the money. 2.2 million Baht has been paid for 195 workers. There's still 33 million Baht remaining. 33 million. How are we surviving now? My husband, well, he had to take whatever job he could find. For instance, if there was drain digging, he'd have to do it. I go to the monastery. I help with the monks' daily needs. I help prepare the food offerings. And if there's leftover food, I bring a little bit back home to feed my daughter and husband.   MAbud: What's your response to her story when you read it, when you perform it, when you share it? MAung: I think she's very strong, cause there's no self-pity or feeling, you know, bad about herself or not, nothing like that. She's just really determined to make a good life for herself and for her family, and also for other people around her who are in the similar situation like her. So, yeah, I really admire her. Yeah. Many people are struggling because of the coup, and also because our country been in that state for a long time because of the dictatorship, the authoritarian regime. So, I guess hearing her story just makes it more real. Especially for Myanmar, because we've been, we haven't been on the media scene in the world, around the world, because the world has many other issues. So our stories in Myanmar has been sidelined. So, I guess these sort of stories, yeah, they definitely go under the radar. VA2: It's quite hard to articulate this feeling because this whole country is going through this whole situation. But in my case, I was born and raised in Kachin state. So, even back before this military coup happened, quite similar situation happened back in my, in my state. What I remember is we had to run back home because of the bombing and the thing, the gunshots and, yeah, out of the blue something would happen and we would be, like, stay on guard, like all the time. But as a human, probably this is a survival instinct, that we are still having hope in the present so that we have a, we can have a better future. GW2: I've started to enjoy it, you know, doing this work. Why is that? Why do I enjoy it? Because I've accepted that only by doing this job, can I sustain my life here. The reason I do this is because it has a purpose. The purpose is for me to gain skills. In the future, can I use this to start a business? That's the kind of intention I have. GW1: What do I want most now? I don't have any strong desires anymore. It's not like when I was young. We just want the foreign boss to know our story, to see our suffering, and to pay us what we are owed. There are workers who are in more difficult situations than me, and I want those people to be able to live comfortably. This compensation money is a small way to solve the difficulties we face.   MA: This is Behind the Seams, stories from garment workers across the region, for Griffith Review. Thanks for listening. I'm Matthew Abud, the producer of the show. Thanks to Clean Clothes Campaign for their efforts in support of this production. And to the Yaung Chi Oo Workers' Association. Thanks to Shakeel and Kay Zue, the journalists who conducted the original interviews in Burmese. And to Tin Zar Aung, and Paul Greening. Thanks also to Mary Aung, one of the voice actors on this episode.  And to Ko Saulsman from the Myanmar Campaign Network. The names of some others who participated in or supported production have not been mentioned, out of security considerations. That includes the storytellers themselves, and one of the voice actors. Thanks to Patch Pheasant for the double-bass recording used here. Relevant links and contacts are in the episode show notes.

This episode comprises two interviews: firstly, with a labour rights researcher about what the rise of Shein, the global online fast fashion behemoth expanding at a dizzying rate, mean for workers in its home base in southern China? And Clean Clothes' Regional Urgent Appeals Coordinator for Southeast Asia, Niki Gamara, talks campaign cases and strategy, and how past victories can inspire in the face of new challenges. Links & contacts Griffith Review: griffithreview.com Matthew Abud (producer): [email protected] Clean Clothes Campaign: cleanclothes.org Bangladesh Accord: bangladeshaccord.org  Patch Pheasant (bass player): [email protected]   Transcript   Researcher: Um, okay, I'm I'm trying to frame it in a way that it doesn't compromise uh, security. Um, so let's put it that way, um, so I, I used to work in a, um... Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Uh, I'm still trying to figure out how should I frame it. Um... I think I'm just going to go with a researcher of labour rights in China. So, many years back, we used to do a bunch of field works. Sometimes we'd reach out with uh, factory workers, workers from the service sector in China. It was around 2020 or 2021 when we were approached by a Europe-based online media who was draw attention to this, whole thing called Shein. And at that time we didn't know anything about Shein. So we we were not knowledgeable about it at all. But and then, with a little bit of research we come to understand that is like the up and coming fast fashion brand. Well, we eventually found not only one manufacturer, but actually villages of small manufacturers producing for Shein, family run small manufacturers of no more than five or 10 persons scattering around what we called urban villages in a few cities in South China, primarily Guangzhou. These kind of small manufacturers, even for us, as well as for basically organizations that had been working on workers' rights in China, it is kind of a new territory. For Shein, what they do is basically an online platform that the factory just logs in and get informed what kind of orders that they have been given. So in effect, uh, do not have to like send a person over here and oversee how you're producing. They really just have to, like, hand out the orders as well as all the specifications online and let you know, hey, you've got to procure fabrics from here, procure the buttons from here, and then you have to produce in in this way. I'm going to give you a basic specification, and then you have to produce it for me. It is really, really far from having an actual managerial staff coming over and giving you orders. Even for the skilled workers, there are a lot of downsides. Uh, for example, not having social security. That's actually one of them. And uh not having a stable source of income. Their income is really dependent of how much order is coming that is coming in. So, basically no job security at all. They usually have to work really, really long hour, even though it even though for them it appears to be a choice of themselves. But, yeah, 11, 12, 13 hours is very commonplace. It's somewhat similar to, for example, like ride platforms or like food delivery platforms. If you want to put it this way, it it's kind of similar. Because they can cut your order afterwards if you're not meeting their requirements this time. So it is a very unstable kind of employment. Garment sector as a whole is experiencing a shift in China as well. Um large factories that are moving out from at least South China. Many of them are moving to Southeast Asia, and some of them are moving to other provinces. So garment workers who used to have a stable job in a large factories, who are many of them 50 or 60 years old at this point, are losing their jobs. So they face a dilemma right now. Are they going to move to other places for work, or are they going to stay in this same city for jobs they have not done for the past decades? Or are they coming over to the Shein factories to at least put some of the experience in use? This is a little bit sensitive, so if you want to publish it, you have to let me know first and you probably have to let me know how you edit it. 10 years ago, it is still a time in South China where strikes still happen and strikes are sizable enough to be reported, to be known outside. But right now, we're not seeing any of those. So we're still seeing some of those who got really fed up with the situation and went on, like, a wildcat strike. Uh, but they're much less sizable, and the censorship of all those wildcat strikes that comes and goes is really heavy and it is really making it difficult for people to know that hey, this is still going on. And I think it's really key because in recent years, we're seeing way, way less people who have faith in actual labour movements. And of course, the crackdowns on organizations who used to be really supportive of labour movement, it kind of takes away the places for exchange of opinions or exchange of a records situation in different sectors or different factories. But right now, we're not seeing any of those. So manufacturing workers have been more and more isolated. The only narrative about China that has been allowed is the one that the government wants.   This work has been much more difficult than before. Less and less easy for us to know how is it going on inside factories. People still do very basic research on different sectors, but it's difficult to have conversation in a way that will actually relates to labour rights. But I think it's really a time of confusion. I guess nobody really knows what's the right way to do things.   Matthew Abud, Producer (MA): Almost all of the stories in this short series, were facilitated by the Clean Clothes Campaign. They're a global network of over two hundred and twenty organisations, including many unions and non-government organisations, who defend and advance the rights of garment workers. So it seems appropriate to end this series, with something of their perspective. Niki Gamara (NG): I'm Niki Gamara. And I work as the Regional Urgent Appeal Coordinator for Southeast Asia at Clean Clothes Campaign. MA: We just heard earlier in this episode about how hard or often even impossible it is to promote workers' rights in China, including garment workers' rights. Could you explain a little bit about what Clean Clothes Campaign's engagement is with China? If you if you can't promote workers' rights there, why does the Campaign dedicate effort in that direction? NG: I think one of the biggest reasons would be, China remains to be the biggest producer of garment, textile and other sportswear apparel in the world. So it still remains to be a supplier for a lot of big brands, global fashion brands and it's important for us to actually continue, touch upon the labour situation in the garment sector in China because, you know, we advocate not, changes in the sector, not only in specific countries or in countries where we could are actually operate, but we advocate for changes in the whole sector, in the in the global garment supply chain. MA: So, do I understand right that what you're saying is you might not be able to work directly with working, worker organizations, but you can still gather information that pressures brands that source from those same factories? Is that right? NG: Yes. Yes, that's right. MA: So in the stories we've shared in this short series, there are some wins for garment workers' rights and there are others where situations remain very difficult. I want to talk about a couple of those stories, but first, are there a couple of highlights you'd like to share about successes of campaigns that you've run in the region? NG: In the past four years that I've been I've been working here, some wins that we've had for workers in Thailand who used to produce for Victoria's Secret, and so they were able to get their severance pay that was owed to them in 2021. More recently, workers producing for Nike in Thailand, the Hong Seng workers, Nike has finally, finally offered to compensate part, partly, of what they owe to the Hong Seng workers. In at least, at least those two successful cases that I have mentioned, we've ran like petitions for years, for for at least two years for, for example for that Nike case. But also, we were able to tap groups of students who did offline in person protests in front of Nike stores, went to investors' meetings of Nike. So what I'm trying to say is that the there's really power in numbers. MA: Yeah, in the very first episode Kalpona Akter from Bangladesh was talking exactly about this, but I think people don't necessarily see how effective it can be because the successes are not so publicized. One episode of this series shared the case for claiming severance pay for a factory that closed in Mae Sot uh for Myanmar workers that were, you know, that that all lost their work when that factory closed. Are there any, we can't mention names because of the security situation unfortunately, but are there any updates from that case? NG: So that's that's still ongoing, and we have tried to bring that case potentially using the new due diligence law in the headquarter country of the brand that are, that has, that was sourcing from that factory. Company Otto, which is based in Germany, they own several different lines or brands, but the mother, but the parent company is called Otto. MA: Another episode shared the story of the struggle for compensation for a worker who got a serious hand injury inside Burma. Can you give us any kind of an update on what's happening there? NG: So that that was quite successful. I think she was able to get the surgery that she needed and you know, it's, it's going to take some time for her to recover and actually we're not really sure if she can, she can fully recover the full functions of her hand, which is, you know, at some point was really devastating for her because her primary source of living is working through using her hands. But, but the thing is the union, STUM who has been supporting that case and other cases, the leaders and the staff of STUM has been arrested and were charged of, you know, essentially because of their organizing work. MA: Yeah, and this is par for the course with the really extreme oppression and repression that's being applied by the military dictatorship there after the 2021 coup. NG: Yeah, everyone is of course welcome to follow this case and hopefully we are able to find ways to have their, the charges against them dismissed. One of our, like, really staunch labour rights advocate and organizer there, Myo Myo Aye, she was in prison before and we were able to also have the charges against her dropped, and we believe that, you know, it was because of the coming together of different organizations. So we could only count on everyone who, who are defending labour rights to come together again to try and support STUM at this very difficult time. MA: Now Myanmar is clearly an extreme case, but manufacturing is changing all across the region. What else do you see coming down the line uh in terms of garment workers' rights, and how are you as Clean Clothes responding to this? NG: Right now, we have been seeing a lot of cases related to violations of the right to freedom of association. So we see for example in Cambodia, in Indonesia, in the Philippines, as work becomes more and more informalized, which affects a lot the workers' ability to organize. And so there's a lot of challenge on how to address that, because all the other violations we believe could be, could be addressed more easily if the workers have their own organization and they can collectively bargain, bargain, issues around safety inside factories, issues around wages, issues around gender-based violence in the factories. So that's why for us, it's really important to work on this issues of freedom of association. We in, in times like this, like when we, when we see there's really big challenges to winning more cases, or like some cases we, it's almost like hopeless to win. But we, we also remember for example Rana Plaza and what happened after Rana Plaza. MA: The collapse of the factory in Bangladesh that that killed thousands, killed and injured thousands. NG: Yeah, but it also gave birth to the Bangladesh Accord, which has become the Pakistan Accord. And now we are trying to make it an international accord for safety in workplaces. And so, I think it's just really important to be reminded of what victories workers have achieved with our support, and so we don't have any other option but to look back and see what inspiration we can take from our previous wins and, and continue on.   MA: This is Behind the Seams, stories from garment workers across the region, for Griffith Review. Thanks for listening. I'm Matthew Abud, the producer of the show. Thanks to Clean Clothes Campaign for their efforts in support of this production. The name of the first interviewee has not been mentioned, out of security considerations. The interviewee's voice has also been replaced with an AI-generated version. Thanks to Patch Pheasant for the double-bass recording used here. Relevant links and contacts are in the episode show notes.