CE Pro Podcast

Daryl Friedman, CEDIA's Global President & CEO, and Greg Simmons, Vice President of Industry Partnerships at ADI, join the CE Pro Podcast to discuss CEDIA's advocacy work on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. earlier this year. Topics include spreading awareness about the custom integration industry as a career path, CEDIA's work to establish a specific, separate occupational code for "Technology Integrator" within the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) Standard Occupational Classification (SOC), responding to recent scrutiny of routers made outside the U.S., and more.

Live from CEDIA Expo 2025, Monitor Audio discusses its full-line speaker strategy, growing demand for high-fidelity audio, and how new products are addressing evolving installation environments for today’s integrators.

In Episode 15 of Inside Buzz, Josh Cooperman of Convo by Design sits down with Adam Eberhardt of Resolute Design Group at CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025 to explore the rapidly evolving world of lighting control and smart home design. With more than three decades in the integration industry, Adam breaks down why lighting fixtures, shading, and color‑tuned environments are now essential elements of luxury residential projects - and how homeowners are thinking beyond traditional AV.Adam also shares insights on educating clients, coordinating with architects and designers, and navigating shifting technologies like PoE shading, cloud‑based systems, and network‑heavy homes. From multifunction entertainment spaces to wellness‑driven bathrooms, Adam highlights the trends reshaping how people experience their homes.

In this episode, CE Pro Executive Editor Zachary Comeau sits down with Richard Charschan of Acoustic Smart Home Theater Interiors to explore the evolving home theater market and what it means for integrators today.Charschan shares insights from decades on the front lines of custom theater design, explaining how demand has surged since COVID as consumers seek immersive, at-home entertainment experiences. He breaks down why the market is increasingly split between ultra-high-end dedicated cinemas and more budget-friendly setups, with fewer midrange projects in between.The conversation dives into key trends shaping the category, including the rise of video walls, improvements in projection technology, and the growing importance of acoustics, isolation, and proper room design. While video walls are gaining attention, Charschan notes that traditional projectors still dominate the vast majority of installations due to cost and practicality.The episode also tackles a major industry debate: dedicated theaters vs. multipurpose media rooms. Charschan argues that while both have their place, nothing replaces the immersive, distraction-free experience of a purpose-built theater environment.Additional topics include:- How streaming and cinematic TV content are fueling demand- The role of architects and interior designers in driving (or limiting) theater adoption- Shifting design trends toward more lifestyle-friendly aesthetics- New surround sound formats and advancements in audio processing- Why education is critical to growing the home theater categoryUltimately, Charschan makes the case that home theaters are not just entertainment spaces, but “escape rooms” that provide a level of immersion and emotional impact unmatched by traditional living room setups.

In this episode of the Inside Buzz podcast, Gina Colucci of Market Share — a Pacific Northwest representative for Lutron and several high-end AV brands — joins the discussion at CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025 to share her perspective from the show floor and her work bridging the gap between technology and the design community.

CE Pro Executive Editor Zachary Comeau sits down with Senior Editor Nick Boever to recap Lightapalooza 2026 and break down the biggest developments in lighting — from fixture innovation and control strategies to human-centric design, power infrastructure, and how integrators are positioning lighting as a core system in the modern home.

In this episode of Inside Buzz recorded live at CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, Josh Cooperman of Convo by Design sits down with Dan Augsburger, U.S. Residential Sales Manager for LEA Professional, to explore the technologies and trends shaping today’s AV integration world.Dan breaks down how LEA Professional’s IoT-enabled smart amplifiers are designed with intuitive IT platforms, built‑in DSP, and flexible smart power features that help integrators optimize system performance with ease. He explains why LEA’s cloud‑based monitoring and management tools are often the “light‑bulb moment” for integrators—enabling real‑time system health alerts, remote adjustments, and major cost savings by reducing unnecessary truck rolls.The conversation also dives into current market sentiment, including how tariffs and interest rates are affecting different project tiers, why high‑end jobs remain strong, and how integrators are adapting. Dan provides insight into LEA’s manufacturing strategy, the engineering advantages of being based in Indiana, and the company’s commitment to working seamlessly with any control system or speaker brand to “raise the tide” across the industry.

Jason McGraw, CEDIA Expo/CIX show director and group vice president, lays out what the Expo team is working on for the 2026 edition of the show. McGraw chats with CE Pro Executive Editor Zachary Comeau and Commercial Integrator's Dan Ferrisi (Group Director of Content + Editorial, Industrial + Tech at Emerald) about new initiatives, new ideas and what is shaping up to be a very exciting CEDIA Expo/CIX 2026.

In this episode of Inside Buzz recorded live at CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, Josh Cooperman of Convo By Design sits down with Eric Nakkila of Selective Design to explore the evolution of custom integration.They discuss the growing influence of European design, the rapid innovation in architectural lighting, invisible speaker technology, vinyl’s resurgence, and why stronger collaboration between integrators and designers is critical to the industry’s future. Eric also shares how manufacturers are navigating pricing volatility, tariffs, and supply chain uncertainty — while delivering high-performance, design-forward solutions.

In this episode of Inside Buzz recorded live at CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, Josh Cooperman sits down with Ruslan Polinovsky of DMF Lighting to explore how manufacturers, integrators, and designers can better connect around lighting innovation.Ruslan shares insights on engaging the design community through clearer education, real-world showroom experiences, and collaboration that starts earlier in the project lifecycle. The conversation also covers how modern lighting solutions—like tunable white and digital retrofit capabilities—are changing the way designers and homeowners experience lighting.

Recorded at CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, this episode of Inside Buzz features Hagan Kappler of Daisy appears on Inside Buzz to discuss leadership, workforce development, and the future of integration. Hagen explains why investing in technicians, apprenticeship programs, and women in the industry is both a social imperative and smart business. The episode offers a candid look at how integrators can grow stronger through scale and collaboration.

In this episode of Inside Buzz recorded live at CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, Joe Piccirilli, CEO and founder of Rosewater Energy, shares his 50+ year journey through the AV and custom integration industry—and the critical insight that led him to redefine residential energy resilience.From his early days building Sound Advice and distributing Crestron and Lutron, Joe explains how recurring system failures all traced back to one overlooked issue: poor power quality. He breaks down why voltage sags—not surges—are the real threat to today’s microprocessor-driven homes, and why uninterrupted, “perfect power” is now foundational to luxury residences, safe rooms, healthcare applications, and aging-in-place solutions.

This podcast, recorded live during CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, dives into the world of Leon Speakers. Caitlin Stewart, director of sales, shares how the company blends innovative design with cutting-edge audio solutions. Watch this podcast to learn about Leon’s Ann Arbor roots, their collaborations with architects and designers, and everything in between. This episode of Inside Buzz also explores the importance of design thinking, illuminates industry trends and discusses the power of creative partnerships.

Recorded at CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, Andrei Matei, co-founder of Robbox Tools, joins Josh Cooperman on Inside Buzz to talk about reinventing the modern toolbox through smart features and a long-term vision for a more efficient tool ecosystem for integrators. Plus, how hands-on demos and real-world use cases change how integrators feel about adopting new tools.

From the CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025 show floor, CEDIA Global CEO Daryl Friedman reflects on industry momentum, emerging challenges, and where the channel is headed next. The conversation provides a big-picture view of technology trends, professional development, and the role of community in shaping the future of integration.

What was the "Inside Buzz" during CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025? Host Dan Ferrisi gets the story from Shawn Hansson, founder and CEO of Logic Integration, in this podcast recorded live at the show. Hansson shares his journey from a newcomer to an award-winning integrator, offering advice for residential integrators looking to enter the commercial space. The two dive into the convergence of resimercial AV, while also exploring the future impact of AI on systems integration and the growing trend of manufacturers collaborating to simplify user experiences.

At CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, URC’s team didn’t just showcase technology—they found inspiration. In this interview, URC leaders explain how conversations with dealers and time spent walking the show floor directly influenced the development of AI-powered circadian rhythm lighting and a broader automation engine inside URC Total Control. The discussion explores why the Expo remains a critical forum for innovation, how real-world dealer feedback shaped URC’s approach, and why future automation must reduce complexity while improving wellness, efficiency, and quality of life

CE Pro editors Zachary Comeau and Nick Boever recap ISE 2026 in Barcelona, focusing on how design-forward hardware, lighting innovation, and international brands are shaping the future of custom integration. The conversation highlights a more mature industry, with greater emphasis on simplicity, execution, and AI-driven tools that improve both integrator workflows and the end-user experience.

In an interview with CE Pro, Total Home Technologies CEO Keith Harrison says homeowner satisfaction with professionally installed smart homes is far lower than most integrators realize. Citing CEDIA data and manufacturer statistics, he notes that satisfaction averages in the high 40% range after one year and falls below 20% after five years. Harrison attributes this to weak networking foundations, inconsistent industry standards, limited customization and a tendency for integrators to undersell the infrastructure required for reliable systems.He argues the industry still treats automation like a one-time appliance rather than an ongoing service, leading to abandoned systems and frustrated homeowners. Harrison also warns that integrators are behind on AI, while Apple, Google, Amazon and Samsung rapidly push predictive home features. He urges dealers to embrace simplicity, lean into mainstream ecosystems when appropriate and design systems built on proper networking, redundancy and long-term service.

Michael Restrepo discusses how passion and purpose drive his work in the custom integration industry, describing Restrepo Innovations as a concierge-style design and build firm focused on meaningful client experiences. He highlights the human impact of smart home technology, the value of community at events like CEDIA Expo/CIX, and his commitment to an optimistic, people-first approach to the business. 

Recorded live from CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, Rushi Kumar, Vice President of Engineering at DMF Lighting, sits down in the VW Buzz podcast van to discuss how engineering, design, and technology are converging to redefine modern lighting. Kumar traces his journey from Lutron to Crestron to DMF, sharing insights into how LED innovation, digital lighting, and tunable technologies are enabling new levels of design precision and user experience. He also discusses how AI and intelligent control systems are shaping the next generation of smart lighting, balancing automation with simplicity for homeowners and integrators alike.

At CEDIA Expo 2025, Harman Luxury Audio’s Jim Garrett joined Convo by Design host Josh Cooperman inside the Volkswagen ID. Buzz “Podcast Van” to discuss how performance, aesthetics, and lifestyle continue to converge in home entertainment. Garrett highlighted Harman’s collaboration with Samsung, integrator feedback as a driver of innovation, and the company’s push toward discreet, design-friendly solutions like invisible loudspeakers. 

Recorded live on the Smart Stage at CEDIA Expo/CIX 2025, this episode features Ari Supran, CEO of Sonance, delivering one of the show’s most talked-about presentations: “Practical Uses of AI in the Custom Integration Industry.”In this engaging and highly practical session, Supran walks the audience through how AI is already transforming day-to-day operations inside his company—and how custom integrators can do the same. Instead of focusing on futuristic speculation, he demonstrates how AI tools can save hours of manual work today.

In this exclusive interview conducted during CEDIA Expo/CIX last month in Denver, Buzz Delano, principal consultant at Delano Associates, reflects on the progress he's seen over 30 years in the business. That includes how we've seen design, custom builders, kitchen and bath technology, furniture and decor come to complement audio, video, home theater, networking, windows and shading at events like CEDIA Expo/CIX. This has redefine the entire industry as "the smart home profession," he says. Later in the interview, Delano describes the unique value proposition that Delano News Advance brings to our industry.Stay in the loop! Sign up now to get notified when registration for CEDIA Expo/CIX 2026 opens or contact us to explore exhibiting opportunities at CEDIA Expo.

Ring account managers Chris Babiak and Tommy Leonard join CE Pro Executive Editor Zachary Comeau to share strategies for growing your integration business with Ring. From creative upselling techniques to cross-industry partnerships and overlooked product features, this conversation is packed with actionable insights to help pros build better systems, increase referrals, and boost recurring revenue.

In this episode of the CE Pro Podcast, Paul Williams, Managing Director of Home Management Solutions at Nice, discusses his recent advocacy efforts on Capitol Hill as part of CEDIA’s second annual Smart Home Day. The conversation focuses on why direct engagement with lawmakers is essential for the continued growth and innovation of the smart home industry.Williams outlines several key policy issues raised during meetings with Congressional staff, including the need for tariff relief on specific imported products, support for the CHIPS and Science Act to bolster domestic semiconductor production, and backing for the Freedom to Invest in Tomorrow’s Workforce Act, which expands 529 savings plans to cover trade school and certification programs.The episode underscores how industry-led advocacy efforts are not only elevating the profile of home technology professionals but also shaping future discussions around emerging topics like artificial intelligence and data privacy. Williams encourages broader participation from integrators and manufacturers to ensure the industry's voice is heard as regulations continue to evolve.

Through the publication of his book Richard Charschan, president of AcousticSmart, aims to educate interior designers and architects on the benefits of properly designed home theaters. 

On the latest CE Pro Podcast, Joel Silver of ISF, Jason Dustal of Murideo and AVPro Edge, and Robert Zohn of Value Electronics, explain how even simple calibration adjustments can create happier clients. 

Before lighting fixtures and power management became hot categories in custom integration, the big buzz was about the impact of wireless audio. With multipurpose media rooms becoming the norm, we spoke with WiSA (Wireless Speaker and Audio Association President Tony Ostrom about the state of wireless audio and especially in surround sound settings and other applications as well, in this week’s CE Pro Podcast episode.

In the world of interior lighting, artwork needs to be specially lit if homeowners want to capture the essence of beauty the artist originally intended. Step outside and you’ll find that to be no different, only instead of the artist being Basquiat or Monet, it’s good old mother nature (and of course the architect that helped design the home). WAC President Patrick Laidlaw says it’s this realization that drove the company to develop its recently released Colorscaping system. Released just before this year’s Lightapapoolza, the new control system for outdoor color-tunable lighting has already garnered plenty of attention from dealers, and so, on this episode of the CE Pro Podcast, our web editor, Nick Boever, chats with Laidlaw, as well as IoT Product Manager Michael Sabolcik to dig into the details of the new system and what integrators can expect to experience when working with it. 

Daryl Friedman admits he doesn’t have time for hobbies these days leading CEDIA as global president & CEO. It didn’t help that the former GRAMMY executive took reins of those roles in 2021, when the pandemic was experiencing a surge. He came into CEDIA and embarked on a worldwide tour of the organization’s conferences and meetings with integrator members. Thankfully, I was able to capture 30 minutes of Friedman’s time recently – on a day when he only had eight meetings. We chatted about Friedman’s challenges after being named as head of CEDIA; his investment into the community; his and the association’s commitment to advocating for members; and the direction of the organization for the rest of 2024 into 2025.

HDMI Licensing President Rob Tobias chats about AI's impact on AV, improving immersive experiences, Blu-ray discs vs. streaming content, identifying counterfeit cables and more. 

One of the most enduring companies serving the custom integration industry is Russound. The New Hampshire-based company has some exciting products for 2024, highlighted by its AVA-Series of mini-AV receivers (AVRs) to expand its audio riches for the CEDIA channel.In the latest edition of the CE Pro Podcast, Russound CEO Charlie Porritt joins to chat about the latest happenings and R&D developments from the audio company.

Vetting a new vendor for your portfolio can be a daunting process, but that’s where your industry networking comes in handy. Down in Florida, Anthony Petrone, founder and CEO of Wellington-based Petrone Technology Group, was seeking an outdoor audio solution and his dealer friends kept pushing him toward Coastal Source. Hear how the match was an immediate success and why Coastal Source CEO Franco D’Ascanio is expecting big things from 2024, all in this latest CE Pro Podcast episode. Editor’s note, we recorded the conversation in late 2023, so the references to “next year” in it refer to 2024.

Everyone knows about CEDIA, the leading association for the custom integration industry. Chances are you’ve attended CEDIA Expo and taken CEDIA instructor-led technology courses. But did you know about all the stuff the association engages in behind the scenes to benefit the entire industry? In case you didn’t, I talked to Darren Reaman, director of government affairs at CEDIA, to discuss the group’s advocacy efforts and other endeavors that help elevate the industry, all in this week’s CE Pro podcast episode. 

The fall and early winter periods are important times of the year in the world of home AV.  For many homeowners, it means buying new AV systems in preparation for a winter of staying home and watching movies, streamed content, and sports such as hockey and basketball. The annual CEDIA Expo, which took place just after Labor Day, the 2023 event in Denver marked a milestone period for the electronics market. Recapping some of the most important video developments from the CEDIA Expo 2023 show floor in Denver, the latest CE Pro Podcast features our expert ‘Video Guys’: Joel Silver, CEO & lead developer, Imaging Science Foundation (ISF), Jason Dustal of Murideo, Robert Zohn, president and founder of Value Electronics, and first-time guest John Bishop of Bishop Architectural Entertainment Services.

Following a successful CEDIA Expo 2023 in which home audio – particularly immersive audio – was front-and-center on the show floor, it was time to talk surround sound with our “Audio Guys” regulars on the latest CE Pro Podcast.Joined by CE Pro All-Star Band keyboard player Steve Haas, who is a nationally recognized acoustician in the residential and commercial audio markets, along with the CE Pro Podcast resident audiophiles Steve Silberman, director of sales, West for Savant, and Paul Bochner, owner and president of Electronic Concepts, the trio dove into several immersive audio related topics.

This year, Nationwide Marketing Group expanded its reach with the rebranding of its residential dealer group to Oasys Residential Technology Group and launched a commercial counterpart, the Ellipsys Commercial Technology Group, in addition to the well-established Azione Unlimited. The leaders of those organizations – Richard Glikes, president and chief creative officer of Azione Unlimited, Hank Alexander, director of the Oasys Residential Technology Group, and Chris Whitley, executive director the Ellipsys Commercial Technology Group – chatted with me about the latest initiatives for members in this week’s CE Pro Podcast.

We just wrapped up CEDIA Expo 2023, and beyond the usual product innovations and education sessions, CEDIA hosted its annual awards banquet where it honors a Lifetime Achievement Award winner and often, but not always, a special CEDIA Fellow recognition. This year the special CEDIA Fellow recipient was James Chen, managing director of Kordz. We were privileged to have Chen connect with us from Australia over Zoom. In this episode, he tells us about his three decades in the industry, his instruction and volunteerism with CEDIA and how he’s helped Kordz grow since joining 15 years ago. 

One of the highlights at CEDIA Expo every year are the amazing home theater and audiophile demo rooms, and it looks like this year will be no different. One in particular that’s sure to stand out at CEDIA Expo 2023 in Denver (Sept. 7-9) is the 11.6.6-channel Dolby Atmos theater being staged by Seymour-Screen Excellence, StormAudio, Grimani Systems, and RowOne Seating. The brands say it will be the first fully digital AES67 Audio-over-IP (AoIP) home theater at the show in Sound Room 10 of the Colorado Convention Center. To tell us more about what that means and how the room will be set up, I chatted with Anthony Grimani of Grimani Systems and Gary Blouse, VP of Sales for North America at StormAudio in this week’s episode of the CE Pro Podcast.

While the show floor and demo rooms focused on new products are always the center of attention at CEDIA Expo, it’s always a good reminder that the annual tradeshow also delivers tons of education and training opportunities too.To help get CEDIA Expo attendees thinking about what kinds of sessions to add into their schedules this year in Denver, I spoke with Mandy Beckner, vice president of education and training to get the lowdown in this week’s CE Pro Podcast episode.

Veteran CE pros may remember Blake Vackar from his first stint on the sales side of leading screen and shades manufacturer Screen Innovations. Well, after a brief detour, Vackar is back at SI at Brand Ambassador and Screen Evangelist and ready to meet with integrators to evangelize the opportunities in those categories. What does all that entail? The big takeaway for integrators is that big screens and functional shades make a compelling combination to sell – that said, we’ll let Vackar tell you more in this week’s CE Pro Podcast episode discussion.From 2009 to 2020, Vackar was director and VP of sales at Screen Innovations, before going to Meyer Sound where he was residential sales manager until making the move back to SI.

This week we have back one of our favorite guests here on the CE Pro Podcast, UK-based Together For Cinema founder and industry do-gooder Ian Morrish. This time around, Morrish updates us on Together For Cinema’s 2023 children’s hospice home theater projects, donations and sponsors, as well as the group’s new status as a Community Interest Company, and another big fundraiser event happening in July, in the latest podcast episode.The organization, which Morrish established back in 2009, has been pulling off multiple children’s hospice home theater projects across the UK particularly ramping up in the past few years. This year is no different, as the first half of 2023 has been exceedingly busy for Together For Cinema.

With a portfolio of some of the most revered brands in home audio, few manufacturers can match the allure of Harman Luxury Audio.Jim Garrett, senior director, product strategy and planning for Harman Luxury Audio, is a long-time home audio market veteran and enthusiast. Harman’s stable of brands includes Mark Levinson, JBL, JBL Synthesis, Arcam, Lexicon, and Revel, and in the latest CE Pro Podcast, Garrett explains how the company has evolved to meet the diverse needs of consumers enjoying everything from immersive audio to personal audio.

The last time we talked to DoorBird, the IP doorstation specialist had recently expanded its North American offices from San Francisco to add an East Coast base in Jacksonville, Fla., where Justin Clark heads up sales for the Americas, Australia & New Zealand, and assists dealers in various ways. He rejoins the podcast with even more to discuss this time around. During this week’s CE Pro Podcast episode, Clark updates the custom integration channel by discussing DoorBird’s presence at this year’s International Builders’ Show and ISC West events; how last year’s acquisition by security giant ASSA ABLOY is impacting R&D; the growing multidwelling/multifamily unit (MDU) market potential; CEDIA Expo plans; and much more. 

To paraphrase the classic rock band Styx, “these are the best of times” when it comes to home video entertainment. That sentiment is shared by CE Pro’s expert panel of “Video Guys” when they discussed spring 2023 trends on the latest CE Pro Podcast.According to our regular “Video Guys” in their most recent conversation with CE Pro Senior Editor Bob Archer, home video continues to experience a golden age of technologies – conveniently timed with what many consider to be a golden age of prestige TV content being produced by all of the myriad services.In this week’s CE Pro Podcast episode, Joel Silver, CEO and lead developer for the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF), Robert Zohn, president and founder of Value Electronics, and Jason Dustal of Murideo offer insights into the latest trends to chat about why the latest displays, resolution, HDR tech and more are putting integrators in great position to indeed deliver “the best of times” to videophile and home theater customers.

The shortage of labor is not unique to the custom installation market, but it has been an ongoing struggle for many years. CEDIA is tackling the issue head on in several ways. First, the association unveiled its Next Gen Smart Home Career Toolkit to help integrators connect with the next generation of employees. Also, CEDIA unveiled its slate of 80 sessions for CEDIA Expo 2023 education this fall in Denver. Mandy Beckner, vice president of education and training at CEDIA, reviewed both the initiatives talking with CE Pro editor Jason Knott in this podcast episode.

With 2023 already flying by, CE Pro took the opportunity to ask its resident “Audio Guys” what trends they see in the market as we close out the first quarter, in the latest episode of the CE Pro Podcast.Paul Bochner, owner and president of Electronics Concepts and Professional Audio Consultants, in Rochelle Park, N.J., and Steve Silberman, business development, audio for Savant, agree that to a certain level homeowners tastes have evolved over the past few years. Bochner says his clients have become increasingly focused on how their electronics complement their daily lives.

 Recent research shows that landscape lighting is among the most in-demand outdoor technologies by homeowners, designers and realtors, but there’s much more to the exterior than just “landscaping” as potential integration spots. Outdoor lighting and audio specialist Coastal Source gives installers solutions to cover all areas of the exterior, and technical sales specialist Shay Brummer returns to the CE Pro Podcast to discuss that, as well as what the company showed during the recent HTSA Lightapalooza event. 

 “We are on a 1,000-mile journey, and we're only about 500 miles into it,” says John Heyman, CEO of Snap One, in reference to the ambitious plans the company has ahead.That journey has taken the Charlotte, N.C.-based company from its humble beginnings in 2000 from founder Jay Faison to become the bellwether company in the smart home industry.  Snap One holds several unique positions in the market as:The leading brand specified and installed by custom integrators in more than 20 categories of equipmentBoth a manufacturer and a distributorOne of the few pure-play publicly owned companies in the custom integration industry.Heyman, along with Chief Product Office GPaul Hess, spoke with CE Pro about what the past year has been like, offered their outlook for 2023 and beyond, and provided a few glimpses of what might lie ahead in terms of a product roadmap and how they plan to help integrators thrive, operate more efficiently (especially in regards to service), and eventually build recurring monthly revenue (RMR).