PODCAST · business
Clicked Off - The people making it big in eCommerce.
by Jason Chappel
Every week we interview people from across the eCommerce and retail sphere.We discuss the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. Success and failure. As well as getting to know the people behind the brands.They share their knowledge and experience, paying it forward to aspiring and growing brands alike.
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14
Why Improving Conversion Rate is Bad Advice for Most eCommerce Brands
Most eCommerce brands are doing more than ever.More optimisation. More tools. More dashboards. More “best practice” (don't get me started on this, it's my pet hate).And yet… decisions feel harder, growth feels riskier, and profitability feels more fragile.In this episode, I break down why modern eCommerce feels harder to run even when your metrics look fine. And why optimisation without direction is quietly hurting a lot of good businesses.This is about how to make better decisions when growth slows, data gets noisy, and the old playbooks stop working.If you’re a founder who’s good at product but tired of chasing numbers that don’t seem to lead anywhere, this episode will help you rethink how you’re running your business.
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13
How eCommerce Growth Really Works
Your eCommerce growth doesn’t stall because of bad marketing.It breaks when your cash flow can’t keep up with the plan.In this episode, Jason Chappel breaks down how eCommerce growth really works now, why customer lifetime value is still the long game, but cash flow is the constraint that decides whether you survive long enough to play it.You’ll learn how to think about growth in terms of flow, not just metrics, how retention, acquisition, and spend timing actually interact, and why so many “profitable” brands still feel permanently under pressure.If you’re growing, or trying to, and the numbers never quite feel calm, this will help you reframe what matters and what to fix next.Book a free growth call and learn how I help eCommerce brands, like yours grow: https://www.wearedefiant.io/contactJoin my eCommerce Growth Made Easy community on Skool for FREE: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about
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12
How to Fix Meta Ads Performance Without Touching Your Ads
If your ads feel like they’ve stopped working, this episode will change how you think about growth.Most eCommerce founders assume performance drops because of creative fatigue, targeting issues, or platform algorithms. But for many brands, the real bottleneck isn’t marketing at all.It’s margin.It’s cash flow.It’s payback periods.It’s the underlying business model your ads are sitting on top of.In this episode, I break down why growth has shifted away from pure performance marketing and towards operational discipline and why founders who understand their numbers will consistently outperform those chasing tactics.You’ll learn:Why ads often “stop working” even when nothing has changed in your account.The key numbers that decide whether you can actually scale safely.How margin, contribution, and cash flow quietly cap growth.Why marketing can only ever amplify what already exists in your business.How to build a growth plan that holds up under pressure, not just on a dashboard.This is about building a business that marketing can actually work for.If you want to grow your eCommerce brand without guessing, this episode will reframe how you see your entire eCommerce operation.👉 Join my eCommerce Growth Made Easy community on Skool for the tools, dashboards, and frameworks referenced in this episode: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about👉 Want to work with me directly? Book a free growth call and learn how I help eCommerce brands, like yours grow: https://www.wearedefiant.io/contact
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11
How to Actually Increase Your Conversion Rate
Most eCommerce founders think conversion rate optimisation means fixing their website.But your conversion rate doesn’t start, or end, on your site.In this episode, Jason Chappel (Founder of Defiant and eCommerce Growth Made Easy) breaks down what actually drives conversion rate and why it’s an ecosystem metric, not just a design tweak.You’ll learn: ✅ How to diagnose whether your conversion problem starts with traffic, trust, or offer clarity. ✅ What to fix first from traffic quality to post-purchase retention. ✅ How small trust signals (like reviews, delivery info, and PR) lift conversion even when they don’t show up in attribution. ✅ The practical steps to increase your eCommerce conversion rate without overhauling your website. ✅ Why focusing on retention, AOV, and customer experience multiplies conversion long-term.If you’ve ever felt stuck tweaking your site without seeing results, this episode will change how you think about conversion forever.🎯 Work with Jason 1:1 — https://www.wearedefiant.io/contact 📈 Join the Skool community — Get free tools, calculators, and frameworks to improve your conversion rate and profit → eCommerce Growth Made Easy: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about
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10
How to Increase Your Average Order Value
🔗 Free Repeat Order Growth Calculator: https://www.wearedefiant.io/repeat-order-growth-calculator🔗 Join eCommerce Growth Made Easy: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about📈 Work with me: https://www.wearedefiant.io/If you want to grow your eCommerce brand, increasing your Average Order Value (AOV) sounds like the obvious move. But here’s the thing… a higher AOV doesn’t always mean higher profit. And in some cases, chasing a bigger basket actually slows your growth.In this episode, we break down both sides so you can choose the right lever for your business.Part One: How to increase AOV the right wayBundles that actually convertBuy More, Save More (and why it increases profit when done properly)Smart free-shipping thresholdsGift with purchaseCart psychology, upsells, and post-purchase cross sellsHow all of these stack to increase margin without feeling pushyPart Two: When you shouldn’t focus on AOVFor repeat-purchase brands, order frequency beats basket size every time. We’ll walk through how to increase customer lifetime value by improving usage, education, and habit formation.By the end of this episode, you’ll know exactly which lever your business should pull next, AOV or retention, and how to make it work in your numbers, not against them.If you want my calculators for AOV, breakeven points, and time-between-transactions, you can find them inside my eCommerce Growth Made Easy community on Skool. You can join for free below.🔗 Join eCommerce Growth Made Easy: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about📈 Work with me: https://www.wearedefiant.io/If this episode helps, hit Subscribe. I appreciate it more than you know.
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9
Why Most eCom Brands Don’t Survive Q1 and How to Be the Exception
Every founder knows the rush of Q4. The chaos, the record sales, the adrenaline.But when January hits… it’s not calm. It’s anxiety dressed up as quiet.In this episode, Jason breaks down the hidden reasons most eCommerce brands crash in Q1 and how to fix them.You’ll learn: ✅ Why your record Q4 might actually be hiding a broken model✅ The cash flow lag that drains your profit before you see it ✅ How to rebuild momentum when your ads “stop working” in January ✅ What “scale lag” is — and how it silently kills your profit ✅ Why returns, overhead, and discounting cost more than you think ✅ And how to reset your business with a clear profit-first planIf you’ve ever hit record sales but still felt broke… this episode is for you.Join Ecommerce Growth Made Easy: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growthWork with Jason 1:1 through Defiant: https://wearedefiant.io
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8
How to Make More Profit Without Increasing Sales
Get your FREE discounting calculator: https://www.wearedefiant.io/ecommerce-discount-calculatorIf your sales are up but profit keeps vanishing, this episode is for you. We're going to walk you through the hidden leaks that quietly drain margin: stock decisions, 3PL multi-pick fees, discounting, ops costs, returns, and misleading ROAS. You’ll learn how to spot them fast, what to renegotiate or cut, and a simple audit framework to plug the holes and keep more of what you make.What you’ll learn:• The “more revenue” trap and how to pivot to better revenue.• Stock & fulfilment leaks and how to fix them.• Discounting maths: why a 20% sale can kill 33% of profit.• Returns playbook: reduce refunds, push exchanges, protect cash.• Why your ROAS of 4 might really be 1.7.• A quarterly audit framework to find and fix profit leaks.Grab the free calculators and templates inside my Skool community, eCommerce Growth Made Easy: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/aboutWant it done for you? Message me on: [email protected]
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7
Stock, Cash, and Sanity: How to Avoid Wipeout
Are you heading into your next quarter wondering:❓ How much stock should I order?❓ How much can I afford to spend on ads?❓ What happens if I run out of cash halfway through?If that’s you, you’re not alone. And the good news is, you don’t have to gamble.In this episode, I’ll show you how to:✅ Forecast demand without guessing.✅ Balance stock orders with ad spend so you don’t strangle your cash flow.✅ Put guardrails in place so you scale with confidence.Because stock without ads is dead stock. Ads without stock is wasted spend. And both will wipe you out in your busiest quarter.I’ll walk you through the exact framework I use with my clients so you can run your numbers, protect your cash, and go into your next quarter ready to win, not burn out.👉 Get my free forecasting calculator and step-by-step framework inside eCommerce Growth Made Easy on Skool.Get started for free: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about
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6
The Discounting Trap: Why Your “Sales Boost” is Killing Profit
Is discounting your go-to move when sales feel slow? You’re not alone, but here’s the problem: most discount strategies don’t boost your business… they kill your profit.In this episode, I break down: ✅ Why discounting erodes your margins (and leaves you stuck in a cycle). ✅ The only times discounts actually make sense. ✅ Smarter alternatives that drive sales without destroying profit.I’ll also show you the real maths behind discounting, with a $100 product example that proves just how much margin you give away every time you slash prices.Because discounting isn’t a growth strategy, it’s a last resort. If you want to build a profitable, sustainable eCommerce brand, this episode is a must-listen.👉 Grab your free Discounting Calculator here and see exactly what discounts cost your brand before you run them: https://www.wearedefiant.io/ecommerce-discount-calculatorFollow me on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3Ik3T1UJoin eCommerce Growth Made Easy: https://bit.ly/4m4pCtz
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5
How to actually make money from paid ads
Most eCommerce founders know their ROAS. Some know their contribution margin. But very few know the one number that should guide every marketing decision they make.In this episode, I’ll show you: ✅ What CLV really is (and why most brands calculate it wrong) ✅ How to work it out step by step (with a real example you can follow) ✅ And most importantly, how to leverage CLV to outspend competitors, protect profit, and grow on your terms.This isn’t about chasing vanity metrics or bragging about big numbers. This is about building a growth framework that tells you:Exactly how much you can afford to spend to acquire a customerWhether you’re pushing too hard or playing it too safeAnd how to make decisions that compound into long-term profit⚡ Download my free CLV Calculator here → https://www.wearedefiant.io/free-clv-calculator⚡ Want more tools & training? Join my community eCommerce Growth Made Easy on Skool → https://bit.ly/4m4pCtzI’m Jason Chappel, founder of Defiant, creator of eCommerce Growth Made Easy. I help founders from scrappy start-ups to $50M+ brands master the numbers that drive growth and profit.If you want to stop guessing and start scaling with confidence, this episode is for you.
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4
Double Your Profit Without Doubling Your Effort (in less than 15 minutes)
Most eCommerce founders guess where to invest; ads, conversion rate, retention, AOV, without knowing which lever will actually drive the biggest return.In this episode, I’ll show you how to identify the growth levers that truly matter in your business and what happens when you improve them.Using simple, round-number examples, I’ll break down the exact revenue and profit impact of increasing:✅ Traffic ✅ Conversion Rate ✅ Orders per Customer ✅ Average Order Value (AOV)✅ Customer Retention Rate ✅ Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) ✅ Gross MarginYou’ll see how each lever works on its own and how combining them creates a compounding effect that can double your profit without doubling your effort.👉 By the end of this episode, you’ll know exactly where to focus your money and effort to scale smarter and more profitably.📈 Want the calculator that does all this for you? Join my community, eCommerce Growth Made Easy, on Skool it's free to get started: https://bit.ly/4m4pCtzFollow me on Linkedin for more: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonchappel/
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3
How to Create the Only Marketing Budget You’ll Ever Need
Are you an eCommerce founder who sets their marketing budgets based on feel?👉 Spend more when ads are working?👉 Pull back when they’re not?That approach keeps you stuck at a ceiling never sure if you’re overspending or missing out on growth.In this episode, I’ll show you how to create the only marketing budget you’ll ever need. One that aligns with your goals, splits correctly between acquisition and retention, and keeps you safe with guardrails so you know when to push and when to pull back.Here’s what you’ll learn:• How to build a budget that actually fits your goals.• A simple way to split your spend between acquisition and retention.• The guardrails you need so you never overspend or underspend again.• Why cheap customers aren’t always better and how to outspend competitors for the right ones.By the end, you’ll know exactly how to run your numbers and take back control of your marketing budget.If you want the calculators and tools I use with my clients to make this even easier, they’re all inside my Ecommerce Growth Made Easy community on Skool (it's free to get started, link below).https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/aboutFollow me on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonchappel/If you need to build your forecast here's the link I promised: https://youtu.be/fvzDDVFpDOs
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2
Why Most eCom Brands Fail at Profit and How You Can Get it Right
Too many eCommerce brands are growing their sales while their bank accounts stay empty. They chase revenue, celebrate record months… and still can’t pay themselves properly.In this episode of Clicked Off, I’m breaking down why so many eCom brands fail at profit and the exact steps you can take to fix it.You’ll learn:✅ How to build a profit-first budget that pays YOU first✅ The 3 key metrics every brand must track for profitability✅ How to stop churn from silently killing your margins✅ Why retention is your real growth engine (and how to improve it)✅ How to keep growing without sacrificing profitI’ll share real-world examples from brands I’ve worked with so you can see where profit leaks happen and how to plug them fast.What you’ll be able to do after listening:• Identify your target and breakeven Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC).• Use Marketing Efficiency Ratio (MER) to track your true marketing performance.• Structure your budget for consistent, sustainable profitability.• Avoid the common mistakes that sink growing brands into debt.• If you’re tired of feeling “busy but broke” and want your business to finally pay YOU what you deserve, this is the episode to watch.🎯 Get the tools & templates from this episodeJoin eCommerce Growth Made Easy (it's free to start) and get instant access to:• My profit-first budgeting template• CAC & MER calculators• Retention improvement tools• Step-by-step lessons on building a profitable growth plan👉 Join here: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about
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1
The Hidden Trade Offs of Growth and How to Overcome Them
If you’re ready to scale your eCommerce brand but feel unsure about the risks, this episode is for you. In this Clicked Off episode, I break down how to budget for growth without losing control of your cash flow or profitability.Here’s what you’ll learn:• Why scaling always comes with trade-offs (and how to manage them).• How to leverage your CLV:CAC ratio to decide between steady or aggressive growth.• The right way to build a growth budget that accounts for marketing, stock, and operational costs.• Why knowing your breakeven point keeps you safe when pushing harder.• How to stay disciplined, avoid “yo-yo spending,” and keep growth sustainable.By the end, you’ll know how to invest strategically, avoid common pitfalls, and confidently grow your store faster.📌 Links & Resources:🔗 Join my free Skool community for tools, calculators & training: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about🔗 Free CLV Calculator: https://www.wearedefiant.io/free-clv-calculator🔗 Follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonchappel/If you’ve ever wondered:“How much profit should I reinvest to grow?”“What’s the right CLV:CAC ratio for scaling?”“How do I know if I’m over- or under-spending on growth?”This episode will give you the clarity and strategy you need to scale with confidence.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share if you found this helpful!
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0
From Stuck to Scaling: How to Plan for eCommerce Growth in 5 Steps
How to Grow Your eCommerce Brand Profitably: 5 Steps to Build a Growth Plan That WorksIf you want to grow your eCommerce business without burning cash or chasing your tail, you need a clear, realistic plan, not vague goals like “more sales.”In this episode of Clicked Off, I’ll show you exactly how to build an eCommerce growth plan that works in the real world, using the same 5-step process I’ve used to help brands scale from zero to over $50M.You’ll discover:✅ The 4 questions every founder should ask before setting growth targets✅ How to calculate your sales, website traffic, and marketing budget based on your goals✅ Why profit-first planning stops you from being “busy but broke”✅ A simple reverse-engineering method to turn big goals into an achievable growth strategy✅ How to sanity-check your plan so it won’t break your cash flow or operationsWhether you’re just starting your eCommerce store or you’re already hitting 7–8 figures, this is the practical, numbers-based approach to growth that actually works.What you’ll learn in this episode:• How to grow your eCommerce brand profitably• eCommerce growth strategy for small & large brands• How to plan for eCommerce sales growth• Setting realistic revenue, profit, and traffic goals• Profit forecasting for eCommerce stores📌 Links & Resources:🔗 Join eCommerce Growth Made Easy on Skool for my forecasting template, calculators, and hands-on support: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about🔗 Follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonchappel/📅 New episodes weeklySubscribe for more eCommerce growth strategies and actionable advice to grow your online store.
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The Pricing Framework That Could Save or Sink Your Brand
If your eCommerce store isn’t as profitable as it should be, your pricing might be the problem. In this episode of Clicked Off, I’ll walk you through two powerful pricing frameworks: top-down and bottom-up. Stop guessing, avoid hidden costs, and price your products for real profit.You’ll learn:• The difference between gross profit and net profit (and why it matters).• Why a 60–70% margin doesn’t guarantee you’re making money.• How to build a price that covers ALL your costs.• How to calculate your breakeven point and price with confidence.• Common pricing mistakes that silently kill profit + how to fix them.By the end, you’ll have a step-by-step way to setting profitable prices without copying competitors or hoping for the best.📌 Links & Resources:🔗 Join my Skool community for tools, calculators & training: https://www.skool.com/e-commerce-growth/about🔗 Follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonchappel/This is essential viewing if you’ve ever wondered:“Why does it feel like I’m selling more, but making less?”“How do I know if my prices are actually profitable?”“What’s the right way to factor in costs like marketing and fulfilment?”Get your pricing right and everything else in your business gets easier. Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share if you found this helpful.
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Your Customers are WAAAY More Valuable When They're Signed In - Here's Why with Joe Vancena from Status
For our final episode of the season, I caught up with Joe Vancena CEO of Status - the signed in shopping app for Shopify Plus brands. Joe talks about how getting shoppers signed in is the key to activating all of the other programs and incentives you have running, the future of privacy, and how there has never been a better time to start capitalising on signed in shopping. You can find Joe & Status on: Joe Vancena - linkedin.com Status - statusaccounts.com You can reach Jason at Defiant or on Linkedin. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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Mailchimp is back! And the eCommerce Mid Market is Where it's at!
This week I'm joined by Ali Wood from Intuit Mailchimp. We talk about why Mailchimp feel like they're back despite never having been away. How the email and eCommerce landscape has changed, as well as why some emails perform better than others! You can find Ali and Mailchimp at: Mailchimp - mailchimp.com Linkedin - linkedin.com You can reach Jason at Defiant or on Linkedin. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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-4
What Does Your eCommerce Platform Really Cost? with Ed Harries from Visualsoft
This week I'm joined by Ed Harries. Ed is the VP of Strategic Partnerships and Payments at Visualsoft and talks about the minefield that is choosing your eCommerce platform, the cost of that platform, and how finding the right agency partner is one of the keys to success. You can find Ed at: Linkedin - linkedin.com Visualsoft - visualsoft.co.uk Email - [email protected] You can reach Jason at Defiant. Linkedin - linkedin.com Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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-5
Loci - The World's Hottest Sneaker Brand leading with DTC eCommerce with Ross Allsop
This week I'm joined by Ross Allsop. Ross is the eCommerce and DTC lead at Loci and talks through how the sneaker industry is shifting. He tells us how brands can survive in turbulent times, and how your marketing attribution can either set you up for success or failure. You can find Ross at: Linkedin - linkedin.com Loci - lociwear.co.uk You can reach Jason at Defiant. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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Send Your eCommerce Growth to the Moon with Youri Moskovic
This week I'm joined by Youri Moskovic. Youri explains why accurately predicting your stock levels is one of the key secrets to eCommerce growth so that you are never over or under stocked, helping free up cash. You can find Youri at: Linkedin - linkedin.com Prediko - prediko.io Email - [email protected] X (formerly Twitter) - twitter.com You can reach Jason at Defiant. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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-7
Life as an eCommerce Director - Augmented Reality, Delivery and Returns with Jaime Hill
After some serious technical difficulties, we're back with Jaime Hill, seasoned eCommerce Director to talk all things eCom. What was a full episode has become a minisode due to no audio being picked up, but in our time together Jaime talks all things augmented reality, the difficulties around delivery, returns, and consumer behaviour and expectations when it comes to buying online. You can find Jaime at: Linkedin - linkedin.com You can reach Jason at WeAreDefiant.io Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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-8
How Multinational brands are tackling eCommerce with Somesh Dwivedi
This week I'm joined by Somesh Dwivedi. Somesh is the Global eCommerce Director at Essity, home to brands such as Tena, Actimove, and Jobst. He talks about how global brands are approaching their eCommerce strategy, the importance of B2B eCommerce, and the need to ensure you are authentic above all else. You can find Somesh at: Linkedin - linkedin.com You can reach Jason at WeAreDefiant.io Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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How You Can Sell Your Product Online When You Can't Advertise with Matt McNeill
This week I'm joined by Matt McNeill. Matt is the CO-Founder of CBD brand Kloris. He talks about the challenges CBD brands face when it comes to regulation, advertising in eCommerce, and educating and retaining customers. You can find Matt at: Linkedin - linkedin.com Kloris - kloriscbd.com You can reach Jason at WeAreDefiant.io Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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Gary Gumbleton - Why You're Not Producing Enough Content and How You Can Solve it!
This week I'm joined by Gary Gumbleton. Gary talks about why you need to be producing more content than ever and how you can leverage video to do it. You can find Gary at: Linkedin - linkedin.com You can reach Jason at Defiant. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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-11
Thomas Gleeson - Making your eCommerce Store Profitable
This week I'm joined by Thomas Gleeson from StoreHero. We talk about how Thomas and StoreHero help eCommerce brands get a true picture on their numbers and how easy it can be for brands to go wrong when reviewing their metrics. Register for a StoreHero free trial: storehero.ai/demo You can find Thomas and StoreHero at: StoreHero - storehero.ai Linkedin - linkedin.com You can reach Jason at Defiant. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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Lauren O'Donnell - Oatsu, From Kitchen Table to Securing Investment
This week I'm joined by Lauren O'Donnell from Oatsu. We talk about how Lauren took her idea for a convenient and healthy breakfast from her kitchen table online, and how she's handling investment and growth for her DTC eCommerce brand. You can get 15% off your order at Oatsu using the code: ClickedOff15 You can find Lauren and Oatsu at: Oatsu - oatsu.co.uk/ Linkedin - linkedin.com You can reach Jason at Defiant. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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Aggie Meroni - Nailing Your eCommerce Paid Ads
This week I'm joined by Aggie Meroni from White Bee Digital and The Freelance Ads Club. We talk about the state of paid ads in eCommerce, how to decide if you should be running lead generation campaigns or conversion campaigns, and why, and when the best time is to engage an ads manager. You can find Aggie at: White Bee Digital - whitebeedigital.com The Freelance Ads Club - thefreelanceadsclub.com Linkedin - linkedin.com You can reach Jason at Defiant. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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Neil Saada - Taking Control of Your Manufacturing and Supply Chain
This week I'm joined by Neil Saada from Flexchain. We talk about how everyone in eCommerce can get in on starting to own their manufacturing, reduce costs, and increase quality, no matter how big or small you are. Neil tells us why re-shoring is the thing you should be seriously considering for your eCommerce brand, and about a stroke of luck he had getting his products into the hands of some serious celebs. You can contact Neil to talk all things manufacturing at [email protected], getflexchain.com, and even WhatsApp him on +44 7477 471 477. You can reach Jason at Defiant. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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Andrew Kemp - From DTC to Wholesale
This week I'm joined by Andrew Kemp from Candid Founders, one half of Bare Kind, the bamboo sock company and Wholesale Autopilot. We talk about the purpose driving Bare Kind, the ups and the downs, including the moment they considered closing the business down. You can find Andrew on Candid Founders on YouTube and Wholesale Autopilot. You can also get 10% off your order over £25 at Bare Kind using the code ClickedOff10. You can reach Jason at Defiant. Music courtesy of SoulProdMusic
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
Every week we interview people from across the eCommerce and retail sphere.We discuss the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. Success and failure. As well as getting to know the people behind the brands.They share their knowledge and experience, paying it forward to aspiring and growing brands alike.
HOSTED BY
Jason Chappel
CATEGORIES
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