Harborough Hustle: Inspiring Talks with local entrepreneurs

Long-term care is one of the biggest wildcards in retirement, but preparing for it doesn't have to be overwhelming. In this episode, we break down actionable, stress-free strategies to protect your hard-earned savings from rising healthcare costs without compromising your lifestyle. Tune in to discover how proactive planning can turn a source of anxiety into a confident blueprint for your future.

Nicky Masson is a globally engaged professional based in Market Harbor, who offers extensive online services to clients across Asia, America, and beyond. Her unique approach allows her to bridge geographic gaps, facilitating impactful one-on-one and group programs virtually. For local organizations, Nicky provides face-to-face consultations, working hands-on with teams to drive results. This global interaction enhances her understanding of diverse cultures, enriching her ability to assist a wide array of clients with tailored solutions.

Rob’s an accountant with a passion for the stories behind the numbers, and he’s here to share his unique journey from corporate life to self-employment. An intriguing mix of financial acumen and personal passion, Rob’s insights into small business challenges are not to be missed! We'll dive into his love for golf and how he’s planning to hit the top courses in Ireland, the joy he finds in playing the sport with his daughters, and his family-oriented lifestyle. Rob’s not all about numbers though; he’s an avid cook, enjoys craft beer, and is considering expanding his math coaching onto social media platforms. Plus, Rob reveals his admiration for Kevin Sinfield and Rob Burrow, touching on their contributions to motor neuron disease awareness, a cause close to his heart. Join us as Rob discusses his career transition, the critical role of financial awareness in business, and his most proud professional moments. Whether you’re a small business owner, a fellow accountant, or just interested in hearing an inspiring personal journey, this episode has something for you. Don't forget to check out our website, market harboroughbiznetwork.co.uk, for more information and links to Rob's LinkedIn profile. Let’s get started and dig into the hustle with Rob Sloan!

Nicola explains the pivotal role of LinkedIn in business-to-business lead generation, and how she’s helping businesses adapt to the ever-evolving digital landscape. We explore her mistakes and triumphs, and recent work bringing school leavers and businesses together. Check out the show notes for Nicola's free guide on optimising your LinkedIn profile

In this episode, we delve into the critical topic of future planning in the context of the NHS and care systems. Jo passionately emphasizes the necessity of discussing care plans early within families and setting clear expectations for later life.

Rupert shares invaluable insights into his career journey, his approach to business coaching, and how he balances it all while maintaining a passion for fitness and personal development. If you’ve been longing for actionable advice and a unique perspective on growing your business, you won’t want to miss this episode!

  00:00 Author discusses dogs and personal life briefly. 04:23 Volunteered at rescue centers, trained and helped. 09:32 Consider hourly rate and time, delegate tasks. 11:17 Client impressed by website turnaround time. 15:43 Business plan, doubts, success, persistence, learning. 19:36 Regret not researching before hiring accountant. QR code mistake. 21:36 Nominated for animal star award, finalist soon. 26:09 Various careers, considering small event planning next. 27:39 Supporting FND Action, abseiling, desire to hike Camino de Santiago. 30:30 Innate ability, practice, enjoy, happy day.

Martin [00:00:00]: Hello. I'm your podcast host, Market Robson. Harborough Hustle proudly sponsors local charities. Check us out on marketharboroughbiznetwork.co.uk where you can find a transcript of today's podcast, all the links that I mentioned, posts you can share on social media to spread the word, and everything you need to know if you'd like to help our local charities find out more about our lovely sponsors. Today, I'm gonna be speaking to Jen from Fuzzy Flamingo. But just before we get into that, let's hear it from our lovely sponsor. Hey, it's 2024. Is your website really pulling its weight when it comes to helping you compete in today's market? Have a chat with me, Market, from Roman Britons to find out how you could use the latest technology and psychology to get ahead. Martin [00:00:53]: All in plain English. Don't delay. Welcome to this episode of Harborough Hustle, where I'm delighted to be chatting with Jen from Fuzzy Flamingo. Hi, Jen. Jen [00:01:07]: Hello. How are you? Martin [00:01:09]: I am not too bad at all. I have no small children with illnesses and things like that. How are you? Jen [00:01:19]: Unfortunately, I do have small children who have been very ill, but they're back at school so much better. Martin [00:01:26]: Fantastic. It's, it's always one of those things, isn't it? We talk about being a a small business and running our stuff, but at the end of the day, you know, you gotta put your family first and make sure that that's all sorted and run a business at the same time. Jen [00:01:39]: Absolutely. It's it's lovely to have the flexibility, but it it does come down to me to to be able to drop everything to be with them. So I'm very fortunate to have understanding understanding clients. Martin [00:01:50]: Fantastic. We like those. They're not all like that, but we're like the ones that are. If you're listening clients, take note. Alright. So first thing I'd just like to to ask for those people who've who've not met you before, just tell us a little bit, about yourself, what you do, and, what do you like doing besides work? Jen [00:02:10]: Of course. So I, am the owner of Fuzzy Flamingo, which is a book publishing company. I specialize in helping authors to self publish beautiful books with editing, design, and publishing services. And my aim with Fuzzy Flamingo is to make publishing more transparent, less intimidating, and more accessible. Outside of of work, there's loads of things I love to do. I love getting out in the fresh air. I've got a small dog, and he we love to walk him, love spending time with my family, and generally just having a good time. Martin [00:02:46]: Fantastic. Having a good time. What a brilliant hobby. Absolutely. So I know from having done, quite a number of these podcasts that the one burning question that that our listeners will have is, what's the dog's name? Jen [00:02:59]: Doug. He's, Doug the Shug. He's a Shih Tzu crossed with a pug. So he's basically a hairy pug, and he's very cute. Martin [00:03:06]: Sounds amazing. Yeah. Jen [00:03:08]: I if I angle my camera down, you should be able to see him asleep on his little bed. Martin [00:03:12]: Oh my goodness. Jen [00:03:14]: Yeah. He spends most of his day asleep. Martin [00:03:17]: So for anybody who's just, listening to the audio version of this podcast, then Doug the Shug was down on the floor there sleeping away quite happily. He is really enthralled by the podcast. He's just he's watching it so much. Yeah. Now, again, also for for people on on the audio, they won't be able to see what's behind you and indeed what you're wearing. The people who are watching this on on YouTube might just have a clue what your company is called. So, could you just describe some of the things that I can see on my camera now? Jen [00:03:52]: Yes. Of course. Basically, a flood of flamingos or a flamboyance of flamingos is the Greek noun is, which I absolutely love. Yeah. It's called a flamboyance. How perfect is that? Yeah. I have a giant flamingo behind me, which who was given to me by my Britons. When it arrived in a very funny shaped package. Jen [00:04:13]: My my husband looked at it and thought, what is that? But I love it, and I get gifted lots of lovely things. I have a ban placed on me by my husband for buying any more flamingo things myself, but it doesn't stop my authors and my family and friends buying things for me. So yes. And I'm also wearing a flamingo print dress, which is a popsy, which is another small business, which I adore. So I have several flamingo print dresses and jumpsuits and and what have you because I love it. Martin [00:04:43]: Fantastic. Shout out to Popsie. I mean, I happen to know also that, I think you have branded Doc Martens as well if I remember. Jen [00:04:50]: Yes. So I have pink fluffy Doc Martens, which usually cause a stare when I wear them. But I I love them. They are very warm, though. Martin [00:05:00]: Fantastic. Yeah. Well, we we could definitely say that, we don't miss you when you're you're in a room. Jen [00:05:07]: Absolutely. Pink hair as well. That is quite quite common for me to have pink hair. Martin [00:05:12]: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I should have mentioned that. Well, okay. Anybody who's still on the audio podcast and hasn't immediately flipped over to YouTube, you you got an idea of what you're missing. So, yeah, let's get back to the book publishing. That's a really interesting thing because obviously years ago, I mean, that was almost a monopoly. Martin [00:05:33]: Certainly one could call it a cartel. There were a limited number of very major players in the business. Jen [00:05:39]: Yes. Martin [00:05:40]: So how did you get started in in doing it yourself? Jen [00:05:45]: I I started off in the publishing industry in 2010. It was, pretty much an accidental career because it wasn't the career that I'd intended for myself. So my my whole life, I wanted to join the police with the view of becoming a super duper detective solving crimes. All through my childhood, all through adolescence and university, that was my aim. And then I took a gap year after finishing university and before applying when I was diagnosed with autoimmune arthritis. I've got a couple of forms, ankylosing spondylitis, and psoriatic arthritis, which is a bit of a mouthful. But when it came to apply, when I got back from my gap year, they they wouldn't let me get past the first screen. And I didn't have a plan b, so it suddenly had to rethink all of my options, all of my skills, my qualifications, and my, experience with the work I've done to that point. Jen [00:06:41]: And it was my mom who found a job in the paper for a publishing house where I'd be starting right at the bottom in the warehouse, picking and packing books and doing admin for the different departments, so the production department, the marketing department. And I worked my way up through the production side of things because I absolutely loved the the making of books. Just bringing someone's story to life just fills me with joy, and it turns out it was a it was a a great move, and I absolutely loved it. But the problem I had was that with my autoimmune conditions, I'm on immunosuppressants to treat it. And being in an open plan office with people whose germs don't affect them in the same way that they affect me, it meant I was off sick more than I'd want to be. And when I was the group production manager looking after the teams across all of the imprints, it it was a challenge because it was a cycle of stressing about getting ill if someone was ill in the office, being off sick, and then catching up and having the whole circle start again. So, when I had my first child in 2016, I recovered my health, and I got on top of managing it really well. And it became apparent that actually being at home away from the books was was going to serve me right. Jen [00:08:04]: So I started off with freelancing for publishers, And then, I had a few self publishing authors who came to me for my services, and I loved it so much that I decided to steer my business more in that direction. And, actually, I'm one of those businesses where the pandemic actually helped because lots of people started writing their books. The the publishers that I was freelancing for were taking freelancing back in in Hustle, or were going into administration because the publishing industry as a whole really struggled, whereas the self publishing industry is was thriving. So it that's how I ended up specializing in what I do, and and I haven't looked back. I I love it. Martin [00:08:48]: Wow. What an incredible story and amazing, you know, when, I guess, you were relatively young in life, to be diagnosed with with different autoimmune, Britons? Jen [00:08:59]: Yes. Yeah. I would I just turned 23, so at the very beginning of my career. Martin [00:09:05]: Right. But you've managed to turn, you know, in into a extremely successful, business warmer. And we are recording very close to international women's day. Jen [00:09:18]: Yes. Martin [00:09:19]: You know, obviously, people Market listening to this it's a little bit later now, but we're recording it very close to international women's day. And I happen to know that you are not only a woman, you see how incredibly, astute I am, but an award winning woman at that. I do. Tell us a little bit about some of the awards that you've won. Jen [00:09:39]: Yes. The most recent one I will be celebrating on International Women's Day at the House of Lords. It's the f entrepreneur, I also 100. So they've chosen 100 of the top UK female entrepreneurs, and we're going to be celebrating together, at the House of Lords, which seems it seems huge, and it's very exciting. And I've had a lot of press coverage, and and it's it's done a lot for my business getting that accolade. And it comes into the umbrella of Small Business Britons, who, if you own a small business, I would highly recommend looking into them because they have so many free resources, and a lot of support that, it they they've been invaluable in the last few years certainly. So it it's come from from them, and it it feels great to have won it. And in in the past, I've also won a few other things. Jen [00:10:34]: I won a Mums in Business Award for my Instagram page when I'd I'd first started, the publishing side of things. And that that was huge for me because I I didn't even have an Instagram page before I started my business. It was purely for business that I started it. So I had to learn completely from scratch, and I've built it up. So I now have over 2,000 followers in a really tight knit community who were really supportive, and so it was lovely to be able to celebrate that. Martin [00:11:05]: Wow. That's absolutely amazing, Jen. And, you know, just just take a a minute to reflect on that, dear listener. I mean, that's the top 100 entrepreneurs in Britain. Jen [00:11:16]: Yes. Martin [00:11:18]: Think about that. That's amazing. And kind of I don't know. A little bit ironic, it's still called the House of Lords, really, because there are obviously many ladies in there. Yeah. Perhaps they should be updating that name. But anyway, that's another discussion, I suspect. But many, many congratulations. Martin [00:11:35]: That's That's Jen [00:11:36]: absolutely Martin [00:11:38]: fantastic. Thinking back to to the book publishing then, is there something that that you think that people don't think enough about when they're they're starting down that, I've got a book inside me. What do I what should I be thinking about other than, you know, whatever the the the story of the book is? Jen [00:11:58]: Yes. Absolutely. It's, the the thing I have most when authors come to me is that they they don't really have any idea about the publishing and and how it works, which is understandable. Why would you if you've never had anything to do with the publishing side of things? So the reason I want to make publishing more accessible and more transparent is because there's so much information out there. When you first start looking into it, it can be totally overwhelming. And I have a lot of authors who have not done anything with their book idea or even with their book once it's written because they just don't know which way to turn. So I want to show you that there's lots of different options to get into your target reader. So there are the big publishers with the traditional publishing side. Jen [00:12:46]: With some books, it it it's really the the best option for them. But with a lot of books, especially for first time authors, it's not very accessible. They their idea may well be better suited to self publishing. And even within self publishing, there are a lot of options. So that's what I talk about on social media is trying to demystify the different routes to being published. And to remove the stigma, being self published isn't, a vanity thing anymore. It's not just a case of putting your word document up on a platform and hoping people buy it. If you want people to buy your book, it needs to be good enough quality. Jen [00:13:24]: So it needs to be professionally designed, professionally edited. You need to market it well because you need authors, you need readers, sorry, to enjoy your book so much that they then start telling other people, and then it goes from there because recommendations, word-of-mouth, and reviews are the best sales pitch for your book. Martin [00:13:43]: Mhmm. Yeah. Sounds fantastic. And just for clarity, are we talking, just fiction, or is it both fiction and nonfiction? Jen [00:13:50]: Fiction and nonfiction and children's books as well. I was very lucky to work for a publishing house that had lots of different imprints. So I got to work on on all the different shoppers and have a very broad background. And I also love variety, so it keeps me engaged. I think I probably get bored easily. So being able to do lots of different things is just magic for me. Martin [00:14:10]: Yeah. Definitely. Is there something you think that you you wish you'd known earlier, in your journey, in in the book publishing journey anyway that that might have made things a bit easier for you now? Maybe, you know, a note to a younger Jen. Jen [00:14:25]: Absolutely. I think if I'd have known that I would actually be building a business when I started, then I would have started things differently. Because I went into this almost pushed into it because of my disability, my chronic illness. It was really the option I needed to take for for my health. But I just thought I would be freelancing for publishers until I the kids went to school, and I could get a proper job in inverted commas. But the fact that it was so much better for my health, and I'm so much more in control of my work, life, and health balance, because for me, it's the three things combined. It it and my business took off, and it it made me realize that, no, I don't want to go back to employment. This is what I need to do. Jen [00:15:12]: And I kinda had to retrospectively engineer the business side of things because it then needed to be much more viable and much more sustainable. So it it's been a challenge to make it this far, whereas I think if I'd have been a bit more prepared in the first place, then it would've it would've been happening a lot quicker. Martin [00:15:34]: Yeah. I think that's a really, really good point. And, you know, we we hear that again and again with, with entrepreneurs, and you know, myself included where, you know, you kinda go into business because you've got a passion for whatever business it is, but there's no getting away from. There are certain other things that have to happen if you wanna continue it as a business. Yes. And and those things, you know, the things that, again, if you can get that right from the word go or close to, it just makes life a bit easier. Jen [00:16:05]: Absolutely. There are so many tools out there as well, and it's just knowing where to look. So being, being in networks networking is invaluable. A a lot of the time, it's to do with building up you and your business, not necessarily to get sales or leads. It's to do with helping you to run a better business. And those contacts are brilliant for signposting you in the right direction. Martin [00:16:29]: I think that's a really good point about, networks. I mean, obviously, we we met through the Market Harborough business network. And like you say, occasionally you get people come and just all they want to do is sell what they've got. But really the key point is just getting to know, you know, what other businesses are out there, what services are there, how you can help them, and then in Britons, of course, you know, maybe somebody else will be able to help you in that whole business karma thing. Jen [00:16:56]: Absolutely. Yes. Martin [00:16:58]: Yeah. I love it. Did you have any any mentor, any part of your journey, or anyone, you know, that kind of took you onto your wing? Jen [00:17:06]: I have been really lucky in the people I've been surrounded with. So I, have have worked with a few different coaches for different aspects of my business. There's a coach in Leicestershire called Keri Hearssey, who is a hybrid life and business coach, and she came into my life at just the right moment. And I worked with her for for quite a long time, and she made huge changes in my business to make it easier for me to run and, less stressful and more enjoyable, which at the time, it was getting a bit on top of me. So that was absolutely brilliant. But I've also worked on a lot of coaching books and, worked with a lot of coaches. I have quite a few businesses come and do business books with me. So I get to learn what's up and coming and all of these new techniques, and I get paid to do it. Jen [00:17:57]: So it it's been brilliant. I'm very lucky. Martin [00:18:00]: Yeah. That's great. I mean, I I suppose there's a slight parallel, you know, with with myself doing, on the web design front again. You get to work with lots of different businesses, and inevitably, you start to learn a little bit more about each bit. Yeah. And yeah. That's that, variety thing again, isn't it, that we take Jen [00:18:17]: for Absolutely. Yeah. Martin [00:18:20]: So I mean, there was Carrie from, back a Hustle while. Now currently anybody in particular that you admire and and if so, why? Jen [00:18:29]: I mean, this is, Sarah. Lots of people. I mean, I I'm I'm a huge lover of reading self help books and reading personal development books. And, actually, personal development is something I'm really passionate about because it's not something I'd come across until I started a business. And I think they should be teaching it in schools. So a lot of the tools I'm learning, I'm passing on to my kids and building up their self esteem, and and trying to get them to to really find their passions and beliefs and follow those. So I think, really, there are, it's hard to pick just one. There were so many really good speakers out there, who were doing marvelous things at the moment. Jen [00:19:11]: So it it's a case of reading wide and reading well. Martin [00:19:16]: Yeah. That's a really good point. And it's interesting you you say about the the teaching at school. I have a friend who's, done a TEDx talk and and that was all about what we're teaching in school, you know, and how it's kind of geared towards a 100 years ago where everybody was in mainstream employment and and now, you know, with much more entrepreneurship. The set of skills that are actually gonna do our our youth well are different to what they used to be a 100 years ago, oddly enough. And, and perhaps, you know, we need to shift, in school. Jen [00:19:49]: I think so. Martin [00:19:51]: That's yet another conversation we could delve into. But but we don't have time at the moment. So, I mean, normally I ask people is is there something else that you still want to learn quite clearly? You are a keen learner. Jen [00:20:06]: I am. Yes. I if my most recent thing is I was invited to become a mentor. So that's my next training opportunity is I'm going to be trained to be a mentor. The the company I'm doing it with, I will be mentoring a a care leaver, say someone of 17 or 18 who is just leaving the care system and embarking on adult life in the big wide world. So I will be passing on the skills I've learned, but being trained how to do that as well. Something I'm really passionate about is inspiring the younger generation and helping them to to get where they wanna be. So that's it's a very exciting opportunity. Martin [00:20:46]: Fabulous. I wish you the best of luck with that. Sounds fantastic. What would you say was one of the biggest mistakes you've made in business? What'd you learn from it? Jen [00:20:58]: I've made a lot of mistakes in my time. I I think, anyone who runs a business will will do that. The the biggest mistake I would say was saying yes to too many things early on because I didn't really it it it just felt really great to be, offered what I was being offered. And so I I was saying yes to absolutely everything, and not everything served me well. But in hindsight, I learned from that, so I suppose it did in the in the grand scheme of things. But what I've learned is that I need to say no when it it it it serves me better. So it might not just be complete no. It might be not yet, but I need to say yes to the things that are going to move my business forward, but also going to look after me mentally, because my mental health and my physical health are inextricably linked. Jen [00:21:55]: If my mental health takes a dip, then my arthritis goes mad and vice versa. So I I need to be at the top of my priority list if my business is going to run well, because without me, it it doesn't run. It's just me and my business. So it it it needs to have me at the top of the pile. So, yes, being being more choosy, I think, could be the thing I've learned. Martin [00:22:15]: I think that's a it's a really good point. And and the thing is, I mean, not only as you say, it's essential that that you're well and able to run your business because you are your business. But when you're saying yes to clients and you're not quite right, they don't get the best version of you. So they lose that as well. So it's actually in their advantage for you to go no or not yet. Yes. Which at the time, you know, not everybody realizes, but, you know, later on it's kind of okay. Yeah. Martin [00:22:44]: I understand. Jen [00:22:45]: Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it's the thing I found most challenging because I am a a people pleaser at heart, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. A lot of people say it's terrible to be a people pleaser. But, if it's in the right way, having a big heart and and wanting to do right by other people is great. It just can't be at the detriment to your your health. So that is that is what I I've reprioritized. Martin [00:23:10]: Yeah. No. It makes a lot of sense. So we talked about biggest mistake. Let's flip it 180. What about your proudest business moment? Jen [00:23:16]: I think, I've I've had so many pride proud moments. I'm I'm really lucky, to have worked with amazing authors and to have built the business I have. But I think it's probably the what we talked about earlier, going to the House of Lords on on International Women's Day to celebrate in a room full of really vibrant people. We're we're in a Facebook group together, and just seeing the incredible businesses run by these amazing people, I it feels like a huge privilege to be part of that. So I'm really excited to to meet them all in person. Martin [00:23:50]: Fantastic. Fantastic. I'm just so, looking forward to to meet you again, you know, after this, recording and and after, International Women's Day just to see how it went because I can see how excited and pumped you are for for this. So it's gonna be brilliant to see how it was and and kind of really interesting as well because like a lot of people, I've never been to the house of lords. I've certainly never been in in the situation in which you're going. So, yeah, it's gonna be amazing. Jen [00:24:18]: It's actually my second time. So I've I've already been to a celebration at the the House of Lords for something else that I won. So, yeah, I I think that's why I'm even more pumped this time because I know what to expect. So there's less of the anxiety of the unknown and more of the excitement that I know is gonna be amazing. Martin [00:24:35]: Oh, that's that's great. You know, one of the things that that that we do, which I confess we stole from Steven Bartlett's diary of a CEO, is is asking our guests to think of a question for a subsequent guest. And when we're off air, I'm gonna be asking you to do that. The question that you've got is from, Becky Whittaker. Jen [00:24:57]: Mhmm. Martin [00:24:57]: And she wants to know, can you describe one habit that has changed your business? Jen [00:25:05]: Oh, that's a great question. Because habits is something that I've actually been researching a lot recently. It was in one of the, the the business books that I worked on. They talked about habits, and there Market some really great self help books at the moment about forming good habits. I think my best habit recently is really limiting my time on, social media and my emails. So so screen time, which is necessary for my business, I do my own Market, so it has to be done well, and it has to be has to be done. But, actually, making it more focused makes it better. So, I I don't post as frequently. Jen [00:25:50]: I don't feel like I have to post every single day anymore, but what I do post has to be good. So it's probably 3 times a week in general that I post on social media, but it means that I can spend more time on my business instead of in it. And it it's not my favorite thing, so making that a habit of it only allotting certain time periods in my week to doing that and not just doing it all day. Martin [00:26:15]: And that's a lot harder than it sounds, Jen [00:26:18]: isn't it? Really is. Especially when you start to get comments on your post and it's doing well, you wanna start checking back all the time and and having a look, picking your phone up every hour. But actually Hustle having allotted times in the day or even just, certain days of the week, it it just makes me so much more productive. Martin [00:26:36]: One of our, previous guests, Mel, who's a process improvement specialist, talks about a similar sort of thing, you know, allotting time for specific things. Still something I need to improve on personally. There Jen [00:26:49]: we go. Yes. Don't we all? I have a great spreadsheet for my time blocking because I have to time block. Otherwise, I just get carried away. But but sometimes it burns away with you. You just have to not punish yourself, reset, and and keep going. Martin [00:27:05]: Very great advice there. Yep. So, if you weren't in the book publishing industry, what's another career that you that you might have done or may still do in the future? Who knows? Jen [00:27:18]: Yeah. It was, so I spoke at the beginning that becoming a police detective was always what I wanted to do. And, actually, having met a lot of people who've gone through the that career and and are doing what I wanted to do. I probably don't think it's for me. So, actually, it probably did me a favor that I couldn't go into that. The the other love in my life is something that I've not done in so long because I did, a level theater studies, and I did drama for GCSE because I was I was pretty much forced into it. I wanted to do pottery for GCSE for one of my choices, and I got hold into the middle school, head teacher's office because only 2 people wanted to do pottery, and they couldn't run it. Despite my protestations, they couldn't run it with just 2 people. Jen [00:28:09]: So, he gently forced me into doing drama instead because he said it would do me good. I was a bit of a wallflower. You wouldn't really believe it now, but I was a bit of a wallflower. So probably, going into acting would be that secret little desire in there somewhere. It's it's the I have such admiration for the people who just go for it because it's such a an unstable business that it it yeah. I don't think I'd deal with the anxiety very well, but it's still there. Martin [00:28:42]: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's it's it's I think it's the there's a couple of, again, interesting lessons in that one, you know, having always thought this is what I wanna do and then, you know, later on in life meeting a number of people who've done it and then rethinking, yeah, maybe actually I don't wanna do it anymore. That in itself is quite Hustle. But I think it's nice to kinda hold on to yeah. There's something I'd like to do. Jen [00:29:04]: Yeah. Well, I did I did a talk to a youth club about not having a plan b, because I want I wanted to talk about why you should definitely follow your dreams. Have dreams. Have big dreams. Follow them. But if they don't work out, it's not necessarily the end of the world even though it can feel like it at the time. So I've obviously had a a wonderful outcome from something that was pretty horrible to go through. So there there is light at the end of the tunnel. Jen [00:29:34]: You just have to look for it sometimes. Martin [00:29:36]: Yeah. No. That's that's a lot of it's about I mean, obviously, opportunities, are important, being in the right time, the right place, sliding doors, all those sort of things, but I really do believe attitude is is key to all of that. You know, it's not just other opportunities, but do you actually, you know, take the the the dangerous step of of taking advantage of those or just let them go? So there we go. Anything left that you'd like to achieve? That sounds so final, doesn't it? Jen [00:30:13]: It does. It's it's like accepting a lifetime achievement awards. I do I'm definitely not finished yet. I I want to disrupt the industry, basically. I want to the publishing is pretty elitist. The the big boys paying are are just that. The the the heads of the big publishing company are usually middle aged white males. Bonnier Books is the exception, and I love looking at at their business because they're doing really good things for diversity and inclusion, and that's something that I'm really passionate about. Jen [00:30:47]: So, yeah, not as I want to do. I want to to help people and to give the voice to the people who don't necessarily feel like they have it. Martin [00:30:56]: Fantastic. And and having seen what you've achieved so far, I think, you know, there's a fairly reasonable bet that that you'll get there, and they're lucky to have you on their side, I think. Jen [00:31:05]: Thank you. Martin [00:31:07]: Any hidden talents that that, you know, nobody else knows about that you suddenly want to share with the world or at least this podcast audience? Jen [00:31:16]: Hidden talents. I I I'm I'm pretty I I said to you before we started recording, I'm a pretty open book. So there's not really anything that's hidden because I tend to just tell everybody everything. The the thing I probably keep inside the most is just how passionate I am about animals and freaky animals in particular. So, obviously, flamingos are very much part of my business, but I do have a passion for the more unusual animals and love to tell people about them. So in particular, naked mole rats, one of my favorites. I I I have a card with a picture of 1, and if you go and have a look at what they look like, you you'll be surprised that I think they're beautiful. Nobody else does. Jen [00:31:59]: And axolotls and all all the things that are unusual, a little bit bizarre. I got obsessed with sea cucumbers when I was about 7 years old. Learned everything there was to know about sea cucumbers. So I can just tell you random facts about freaky animals, and I think that surprises people sometimes. Martin [00:32:19]: Well, I I mean, you say it surprises people, but, actually, I mean, we've been going for 12 or 13 episodes now and you'll be amazed to know that every single episode so far people have mentioned, naked mole rats. Jen [00:32:35]: Brilliant. My my working is done. Martin [00:32:39]: I could've published this on the 1st April now. I've not really with a statement like that. Anyway, that that's that's amazing. I mean, I've written it down. I'm I will go and have a look. They sound fascinating. Jen [00:32:52]: I I can't say on air what they look like. You'll have to go and look for yourself. Yep. Martin [00:32:57]: Yep. I will. And, as our regular listeners know, I mean, we're always gonna publish the, the links, and any particular things that you need to know on the website from this podcast. And so, yeah, if I find something interesting on making more reps, then I'll I'll publish that as well along with, of course, small business Britons, Kerrie, Hersey, and the other, nice things that you've mentioned. Talking about that, where do we find you, online, social media, website, and so on? Jen [00:33:29]: Yes. My website is fizzyflamingo.co.uk. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook with Fuzzy Flamingo Design, and I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter as well. I'm flamingofuzzy on Twitter, and Jen Market, Fuzzy Flamingo, on LinkedIn. Martin [00:33:49]: Brilliant. Okay. An x for the modern people, but Twitter for the rest of us. Jen [00:33:54]: I can't call it that. Who is calling it that, really? Martin [00:33:56]: I know. I know. That's Jen [00:33:59]: a branding that's a branding story for another day, isn't it? Martin [00:34:03]: Absolutely. Jen, it's been amazing. Is there anything that I should have asked you that I didn't? Jen [00:34:10]: Oh, I don't think so. I think we've pretty much covered all the bases. I realized one thing I didn't talk about was my own book. So unflip, changing your life after a life changing diagnosis is my book. I can I can show you for you Mhmm? People. And it it has given me a lot more empathy with my authors about publishing because it is terrifying, but I'm here to say that it's worth it. So I I hold my my author's hands throughout the whole process because I totally understand what it's like. But I also know the the benefits that come with it, so go for it. Martin [00:34:43]: Fantastic. And can you just repeat that title for us one more time? Jen [00:34:47]: Yes. It's unflip, changing your life after a life changing diagnosis. It's about my, diagnosis whilst traveling the world with autoimmune conditions and, what I've done and achieved and and how I improved my life since. Martin [00:35:03]: Amazing. Fantastic. Let me just, talk directly to our to our listener then. Jen, fantastic to to meet you. Listener, show some love for Jen by checking out all of the show notes, all the links to her her website, the socials. You can also check all those details on Market/ podcast. Even better, join in. Leave a comment, questions, suggestions. Martin [00:35:32]: We appreciate how we can make this podcast, even better for you. And hey, if you'd like to be a guest, then, get in touch. Again, you can do that, on the website. And also, if you'd like to be a sponsor and, you know, get your business featured, for a few weeks, then get in touch and find out more about that. You've been listening to Harborough Hustle. Jen, it's been both a pleasure and and quite frankly an inspiration talking to you. Thank you so much. Jen [00:35:59]: Thank you for having me. It's been brilliant. Martin [00:36:01]: Hey. It's 2024. Is your website really pulling its weight when it comes to helping you compete in today's market? Have a chat with me Market from Roman Britons to find out how you could use the latest technology and psychology to get ahead. All in plain English. Don't delay. Call to that.

In today's episode, we have the pleasure of speaking with Becky Whittaker, a talented copywriter specialising in the legal industry. Becky shares valuable insights on the importance of ethical copywriting practices, the integration of artificial intelligence in content creation, and her journey to establishing a successful copywriting business.

Martin sits down with the dynamic Lina Browning, a one-to-one diet consultant and private tutor with a passion for guiding others towards healthier lifestyles. Lina takes us through her journey, from her interest in nutrition and weight loss to her proud moments of helping individuals achieve their goals. The conversation delves into the challenges of the dieting industry, the importance of accountability, and the personal and professional lessons learned along the way. Join us as we explore the intersection of business, nutrition, and family life with Lina Browning on the Harborough Hustle podcast.

Martin [00:00:08]: Hello. I'm your podcast host, Martin Robson. Harborough Hustle proudly sponsors local charities. Check us out on marketharboroughbiznetwork.co.uk/podcast, where you can find a transcript of today's podcast, All the links that are mentioned, posts you can share on social media to spread the word, and everything you need to know if you'd like to help our local charities and find out more about our lovely sponsors. Today, I'm gonna be speaking to Jade from Bamboozle Theatre Company. But, Just before we get into that, let's hear from our lovely sponsor. Welcome to this episode of Harborough Hustle, where I'm delighted to be chatting with Jade From Bamboozle Theatre Company. Hi, Jade. Jade [00:01:02]: Hi, Martin. Martin [00:01:04]: How are you doing today? Jade [00:01:05]: I'm very well. Thank you. And, yeah, Thank you for having me on. Martin [00:01:10]: I'm delighted that that you're on, and this is a bit of a special episode of, Harborough Hustle. Obviously, you are a a local business, and we're still gonna find out about you and the story, but You're also the nominated charity for 2023 for Market Harbor Business Network. So we're talking particularly about, what Bamboozle Theatre does and and why we decided, you know, that we wanted to support you. Before we do that, let's find out about Jade, though. Just tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you get into where you are, and and what do you like doing outside of, your business work? Jade [00:01:52]: Yeah. So, actually, I work with Bamboozle Theatre Company. I've been with them for 9 years is now. I live in Market Harborough. I grew up in Market Harborough, moved away, and then came back. And I've been back for about 7 years now and absolutely love it. I live with my husband and our two and a half year old daughter, April, And just really enjoying everything that Harborough has to offer us, really. It's a it's a lovely town. Jade [00:02:23]: And outside of work, we really enjoy going on walks, taking little drives to the local villages. And, when I get time, which isn't often these days, I do enjoy watching a classic film. So, bit of a film enthusiast. Martin [00:02:43]: Okay. I've just got to ask you then for a classic film recommendation or your favorite. Jade [00:02:48]: Well, my, my favorite filmmakers are Powell and Pressburger, who were, in their heyday in the 19 forties and fifties. And one of their most well known films is The Red Shoes, the ballet film, The Red Shoes. It's a pretty spectacular film, so highly recommend that. Martin [00:03:11]: Okay. Alright. It's not one that I'm aware of. It's not a genre that, you know, I follow closely, but I'm gonna write down that recommendation, the red shoes, and, see if I can find it somewhere, and I'll let you know what I think. Jade [00:03:23]: Thank you. I hope you enjoy it. Martin [00:03:27]: So how did you get started with, Bamboozle Theatre Company then? Jade [00:03:31]: Well, yeah, I mean, I I found them online, and, There was this beautiful film on their website, and I've always loved theater. It's always been a passion for mine. But, Bamboozle is a is a very specialized theater company. So we specialize in immersive, multisensory Theatre that's, designed for disabled children and young people, particularly children who might be described as having profound learning disabilities and autistic children and young people. So the theater that Bamboozle creates is Fully immersive. It it incorporates all the different senses in, in how we communicate and how we take, Our audience is on a journey. And, this beautiful film just showed this immersive world With all these different sensory environments that the children and their families got involved with, there was live music, and it was just so personal and tailored towards each individual child, putting Them and their family right at the heart of it. And and I'd never seen theater like that before, and it blew me away. Jade [00:04:59]: And, And, yes, I I got in touch with Bamboozle Theatre to to work with them, and got involved Initially as kind of project coordinator, admin support. So over the years, I've I've been involved with lots different areas of the company. Fundraising, which is really important for us, and, our events. And, yes, thank you so much for the Market Harper Business Network support with with your donation. It means a huge deal, for us. And, yes, from there, things have just grown really organically. I kind of specialized early on in organizing our touring shows, which go to special schools up and down the country. And we show, we tour 2 different shows a year. Jade [00:06:02]: We used to do 3, and now we're doing 2. And I also organize The bamboozle gala, which is a big fundraising event that we put on each year. So that's kind of what I what I do with bamboozle in a nutshell. And, yeah, just want to keep on going as much as we can. Martin [00:06:24]: Lovely. Alright. So you saw this this, this film on, was that on their website or in a theater? Where did you see that? Jade [00:06:31]: Yeah. It was on Bamboozle's website. And, Yes. Seeing Bamboozle in person for the first time was absolutely incredible. We work with really small groups, so our our kind of maximum capacity In one of our shows is 6 children in any one show, and we have, depending on the show, either 3 artists or 4 artists who are delivering that show. So there's a very high level of 1 to 1 focus, engagement and interaction. And what I found was that the pace of everything was Just slowed down. And in this fast paced society that we live in, It's so rare to get the opportunity to really slow down, and the focus and energy that you that you can feel in The space for 40 minute show is is huge. Jade [00:07:38]: And and when the show finished, it would it would often take about half an hour or so just Just for my head to catch up to the normal pace of life, it it just felt so serene and relaxed after having experienced that. And, of course, that's that's what we want to create for for our audiences. Martin [00:08:00]: That that sounds amazing. This is slightly different, but just because you reminded me, I just thought I'd mention it. I went to, Market Harbor Theater where they sometimes show films, And they showed this film called Yak in the Classroom, which is a a guy who was teaching English in the most remote classroom. It's not really a classroom. It's a shed, basically. And and as a good look symbol, they put a yak, in his classroom. But, anyway, that film was, again, all about the serenity of the the surroundings, And it was very slow paced, and we all came out of that just kind of zen like. And and what you've just described there is is kind of It reminded me of that that just total relax because like you say, I mean, we we're forever doing 100 things at the same time and all the rest of it. Martin [00:08:50]: It's it's Very therapeutic to to step away from that sometimes, isn't it? Jade [00:08:56]: Definitely. I think, yeah, time and space is Irreplaceable, really, when you're when you're looking to really connect with people. It's giving people Time and focus and attention. And, yeah, sometimes it's just really interesting to think when we're having that Conversation with somebody. You know, how truly focused are we and listening and just It can feel quite rare sometimes to give, you know, a 100% of your focus onto 1 individual. It's it can be quite intense, but that's something that we kind of talk about that bamboozle In terms of giving value to someone and valuing somebody for for who they are, it you know, it's it's just truly Listening and giving time and creating that kind of two way communication. Martin [00:10:01]: Sounds amazing. So you've got up to 6 children involved. Jade [00:10:07]: Yeah. That's right. Martin [00:10:08]: And then actors involved? Jade [00:10:10]: Yep. So we, you know, we work with a very talented pool of artists, and, You know, we have live music and singing, the beautiful vocal harmonies that we have in our shows that that just So stunning to listen to. And we use a lot of puppetry in our shows as well. One of our cofounders, Sue Pycroft, is a puppet maker and puppeteer. So from the very 1st days of Bamboozle, Bamboozle started 30 years ago at Leicester Haymarket Theatre, with our artistic director, Christopher Davies, and Sue Pycroft. And, Yeah. Puppetry was always at the center of what we do, and it's such an amazing way for unlocking communication for The children and young people. So some of Sue's puppets, well, all of them are are astounding. Jade [00:11:14]: We've got Large scale puppets and tiny little puppets as well, whether it's our latest show, The River, is all inspired by and set along a river. And we've got this beautiful heron puppet, a playful otter who comes up and swims around, a kingfisher, which is just so beautiful with these iridescent blue feathers, swoops around each individual child. And, You know, time is given with each of those puppets to have that close-up interaction, with nature, really. They're so Realistic, these puppets as well. So, yes, lots of gorgeous sensory elements. Martin [00:12:04]: Sounds fantastic. I'm gonna have to get along because there's 1, as far as I know, 1 kingfisher along the Grand Union Canal, And we're always trying to see if we can see him or her, you know, with that iridescent flash and the sunlight just it. And although we regularly see the heron, we still not managed to find that kingfisher yet. So maybe the answer is just to come along to Bamboozle Theatre and and See the, the the realistic one there for me. Jade [00:12:32]: Absolutely. Martin [00:12:34]: So, We talk about, children involved in the actual production. What what's the sort of age range that you work with? Jade [00:12:44]: Well, we we kind of have a a vague age recommendation with our shows of, 6 to 14, But we know that children a lot younger and a lot older still get so much from the experiences that we do. So So, yes, it's it's really quite broad. And we also do, a lot of work for young people, 19 and over. So, you know, as we've been going for nearly 30 years, As you can imagine, a a lot of the young people who who started, coming along all those years ago, Kind of have have grown up with Bamboozle with with the company. So when we when we put on our our family events and community events, we, You know, we have different groups of young people coming along and we have, you know, groups of young people that have all got to know each other through coming to Bamboozle over the years. So, yeah, we do often have have groups for for performances that are, 19 and over. But, yeah, we we cater for a very wide age range. Martin [00:14:02]: Okay. And, I mean, you talked about the the the children being disabled. Is there, like, a typical range of disabilities? Or, you know, How could you describe that area? Jade [00:14:14]: Well, it's sometimes really difficult with, with kind of lots of labels that that that are used, around disability. And When we talk about, our performances and how they've been designed, We talk about our performances being suitable for disabled children with complex needs, And for autistic children and young people from across the whole of the autism spectrum, it's a It's a very wide reaching, spectrum, as you know, and we just want our Theta to be accessible for all children. So, yes, we we want to make our theater available for everybody, and We talk with families and and parents and teachers about what What the what the show brings and how we open up areas of the show for Children who might have visual impairments or hearing impairments, and our artists and performers Bring everything up close to be experienced in a tactile way, feeling vibrations from the musical instruments. So, obviously, that touch is a really key sense that, that we incorporate into everything. And we just work, you know, with children's individual needs and tailor our performances, for to every child. Martin [00:16:04]: Okay. That's fantastic. I mean, we're most of the people, who are listening to this will just be taking the auditory sensory course. You know, if they're later watching it, then, you know, there'll be the visual one. But, I think you're really starting to bring to life there the different, other senses as well that that we can bring. Where's the, where's the theater actually based? Jade [00:16:26]: Well, we we just have some offices on Burmoor Street in Leicester, which is just round the corner from the King Power football stadium. So we don't have a theater of our own, but what we do is we visit, lots of different spaces. We go to Curve in Leicester quite a lot. We go to Attenborough Arts, in Leicester, which is a really wonderful accessible space. Obviously, access is key, so we always look to see if venues have, a changing place. And, Market Harborough has recently installed its 1st change in place in Welland Park, which was a a a really good thing to hear. So, yes, accessibility is key. And, you know, we go to various community venues, and we have some of our own equipment we can bring to venues to help, make them accessible if venues don't don't have their own changing place and hoist. Jade [00:17:28]: So that's always a key consideration. Yes, we've got kind of families, Throughout Leicestershire who who come over to us at different venues to to take part in our shows. Martin [00:17:43]: Yeah. Fantastic. And, I mean, do you have a typical audience size? Jade [00:17:49]: Yes. I mean, It's a maximum of 6, children and young people in each show, and it can vary a little bit. But, Yeah. With our family experiences, we say the whole family is welcome. Siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents. And there's just so much joy to be had in having that shared theater experience together. So, Yeah. We'll we'll kind of have our 6 audience members, but kind of lots of family and friends around enjoying the experience as well. Jade [00:18:26]: So those are I guess I'm describing our family residences here. So our family residences are quite different to, kind of a 40 minute show because these experiences last for a whole day. So families will arrive with us, say at Curve Theatre at half 10 in the morning, and we'll welcome everybody. We'll welcome everybody into the space. We greet everybody by name. We have a welcome song, which everybody gets involved with. And then over the course of the morning, our kind of story and journey will unfold, and we'll introduce different multisensory environments and the characters that inhabit those environments. And there'll be a journey that our that our audience members taken on. Jade [00:19:22]: And then we'll have a break for lunch, and then everybody comes back in the afternoon for the 2nd part of the story to unfold. And having that full day experience is look. Can be really transformative, Really, just with the amount of time and focus that that's given to our audience members and lots of time for Families to have that social time as well, because, we're often told by our families that, You know, there isn't that school gate exchange for them, when children are kind of bust into school, and brought back home. So social isolation is quite a big thing, and having a space which is Specifically designed for you and your family and, you know, meeting other families And siblings meeting other siblings, you know, it just creates this this Space of welcoming, and we often get told that sense of belonging. And it's a real family feel. We talk about it as the bamboozle family. And we have families come back to us every year. We're vastly oversubscribed for our sessions and just Would love to do more, and need to do more for the for the families of Leicestershire. Jade [00:20:54]: So, That's why we bang the drum about about what we do and, and do the fundraising that we do. Martin [00:21:03]: Yeah. Absolutely. And, I mean, it was the fact that, you know, you'd obviously come along to to a number of our monthly meetings and and explained, you know, the the gala event that you were having and and what you were doing, that that kinda got our interest in into look into this A bit deeper. And it's fantastic to have the chance now to have a talk with you more than about sort of a 10 minute presentation and just chat about what what really goes on, and and the benefits, Not just for the children involved, but like you say, carers of care it's often the carers that don't get the amount of care that perhaps they need, you know, whether in in this sphere or any of the large largest spheres of of caring, you know, that that happens. So, It's it's good to hear you're talking about the benefits for them as well. Jade [00:21:49]: I could I mean, I could talk about bamboozle all day as you might tell, but, One lovely kind of project that we set up as a kind of reaction to the pandemic was is something called the bamboozled backyard, And it's based in an allotment in Rowley Fields. And, it's something that Sue, set up, and it's It's, something designed for autistic children and young people. And it's this kind of outdoor wilderness space, that we started running creative sessions in the open air. And, you know, it was, you know, it was just Wildly successful, connecting with nature and theater and the creativity that that can be found in those spaces with our artists, puppets, music. It it's just an absolutely wonderful space, and those sessions are A kind of even smaller we we we have 2 or 3 families come along for I think the sessions are for an hour and a half, for each session. And, you know, parents get a cup of tea, and, we have got kind of a a covered area there in this kind of large hut, and we've got some benches. And it's just time for parents to sit back And have a chat with the Bamboozle team, and, you know, just, you know, be able to watch their child Run around in the mud and engage with whatever is on offer. And every bamboozle session is different, and there's no agenda, for our, you know, children that come along. Jade [00:23:39]: It's completely centered on what what they choose to do or choose not to do. It's just that freedom and, yeah, freedom to explore. Martin [00:23:51]: How does it work then? I mean, if if you've got a child that you think would benefit from, you know, being in connection with with bamboozle, Do they come just for 1 performance, or or, you know, how do they get involved? Those sorts of things. Jade [00:24:08]: We encourage parents to get in touch, either on the phone or emailing us at in info at bamboozletheatre.co.uk, and have a chat with us. And, we all of our family sessions are completely free, As we do not want there to be any cost barrier for for families, getting involved. So, yes, families get in touch, we arrange a chat, And we look at what sessions we've got coming up and what what spaces and availability we've got to get them booked on. And, yeah, get booked on to to one of our bamboozle experiences. And, yeah, we then we kind we kind of have a mailing list, for families that we that we get in touch with when whenever we've got more sessions available, And parents kind of book on by getting back to us, with, you know, preferred dates and times, and, My colleagues manage all that, all kind of getting people signed up. So, yeah, I think it it depends how many sessions we've got available as to whether it might be 1 session that someone gets booked onto or whether whether it's a A couple of sessions over over the course of a few weeks, but, yeah, we always try and make sure that everybody, And who gets in touch with us gets a slot, which, yeah, can be quite challenging when, when we work with such Small audience groups. But Yeah. Yeah. Jade [00:25:42]: Something that we we definitely try to do. Martin [00:25:46]: Okay. No. That sounds great. And from sort of local business point of view, obviously, you know, local businesses can help by, you know, in in a monetary sense, you know, with, funding, etcetera. Are there any other things that, you know, you you could see ways in which local businesses could could help you achieve what you're trying to do? Jade [00:26:07]: I mean, sharing, sharing our kind of messaging on social media is always a great help. As, You know, we're always, you know, championing disability awareness and, looking to kind of Break down the limiting assumptions that are often, you know, placed on disabled children and young people. So sharing that message and kind of looking to remove those barriers And, yeah, just kind of you know, all children and young people are capable of of Far more than the adults in the room often realize, and, you know, sometimes more than the children themselves might yet realize. And, you know, that's a really important message that Bamboozle wants to put out there. It's about kind of Creating that awareness. And we, for next year, with our 30th anniversary, we'd love to Get members of the business community on board with, a challenge that we're looking at doing in June, which is going to be like a a pledge 30 challenge for our 30th year. We're gonna launch it in February. And For the month of June, people can sign up to to do whatever pledge they like, whether it's walking a mile a day or or baking 30 cupcakes or there's lots of ideas coming forward, and we thought that might be quite a fun summer fundraiser for Businesses to shout about, and for us to be able to, you know, get out there on social media and shout about those who are Choosing to support Bamboo is all. Martin [00:28:02]: Okay. Yeah. Sounds great. We should look forward to that. And, you know, as as we always say, all of the, the links And the phone numbers, all the contact details that we talk about here, they're gonna be available on the, Market Harborough Business Network website, and obviously, links across to Bamboozle Theatre website as well. So if people want to find out more, you know, they've got that to go back to. I know what it's like. You listen to podcasts, and you think, oh, yes. Martin [00:28:29]: And and then, you know, you get home, and, of course, it's all audio. But, we've got everything written down as well, so, you know, there's there's no excuse not to get in touch. And, yeah, 30. What we can do for for 30. Thirty press ups a day, maybe. How about that? For a whole month. Jade [00:28:46]: Certainly a challenge that I'd struggle with, One would be good to take on. Well, there Martin [00:28:52]: you go. Maybe we'll do it together. Jade [00:28:55]: That sounds like a challenge. Martin [00:28:28]: It would be. Yeah. For me too. Challenges and overcoming you get a better sense of satisfaction when you overcome a challenge that that actually is a challenge as opposed something that's easy. As I'm sure, you know, the the children that you work with will will attest to, because they have some Bigger challenges than doing press ups in their lives, obviously. Alright, Jade. It's it's been brilliant just getting to know a little bit more about, Bamboozle Theater And, you know, what you do, who you work with, and and the effect that you have. Let's just bring it full circle and and come around to Jade now, and and just ask you, what's what's been your proudest moment in in business or in what you do So far? Jade [00:29:44]: Oh, well, it can be a tricky one with bamboozle, to to To nail it down, one thing that comes to mind is, members of our team. So again, it's not quite me personally going out to Shanghai. But We went out as a company to Shanghai, for a few weeks over the course of 3 years with our performances and training, local artists in delivering the style of production that Bamboozle delivers. And the general manager of Shanghai Children's Art Centre, told us, you know, what a profound effect that the bamboozle methodology was having as a philosophy in in Chinese society, and that was Mind blowing, really, and a real proud moment to think of, you know, the methodology that we're introducing for for disabled children, in Shanghai. And, you know, there's so many moments in our work where, We get feedback from teachers or parents where, you know, a a child might have done something for the 1st time during a bamboozle show, whether it's, you You know, speak a word for the 1st time or dance for the 1st time. And moments like that are just, Yeah. Really humbling and makes me feel very proud to work with, a company such as Bamboozle. Martin [00:31:32]: Yeah. No. Well said. Well said. Okay. So anything left that you'd like to achieve, personally, either, you know, business related or personal related, whatever? Jade [00:31:45]: Yeah. I'd I'd really like to learn Makaton, which is a a form of signing. We use kind of Makaton symbols in a lot of the stuff that we do, and, I'd really like to learn that, as, yeah, a kind of development thing. And And, yeah, I'm not sure about something else. Martin [00:32:10]: I think that will probably take a bit of your time. Just I mean, again, From interest. There's Makaton. There's British Sign Language. There's American Sign Language. Is anyone more relevant to learn than than any other, do you think? Jade [00:29:43]: I think for us, Makaton is used a lot in schools, and, it it's a really useful resource for, communication. So I'd say Makaton is is really useful for for what bamboozle does. But, yeah, I'd love to learn British sign language as well. I think It's, yeah, something that we could all do with with learning and taking part in. So, yeah, I think All of it, really. Martin [00:33:07]: Yeah. It's like so many things, isn't it? There's there's a lot of opportunities, nowadays. And and like you said right at the start about, you know, kind of being, a little bit overwhelmed as to what podcast do I listen to because there's so much choice, you know. It's it's a little bit okay. Well, what am I gonna learn and, you know, develop myself with next year when there's so many different things we could do? So The the trick is just to start with 1, basically, isn't it? Jade [00:33:33]: Definitely. Martin [00:33:35]: Alright. So, let's just recap finding what are the, details that we need to know? Jade [00:33:48]: Yeah. Bamboozletheatre.co.uk is our website, and There's lots of information on there. You can have a look at our shows of there's some gorgeous films on there. So Definitely recommend having a clip around the website, and we're on Facebook and Instagram as Bamboozle Theatre. I think we're on Twitter as Bamboozle UK. And I I'm on LinkedIn. Bamboozle's on LinkedIn, which is a great place for the business community. So we'd love to increase our following on there to give that a shout out if we can. Jade [00:34:28]: Yeah. I think that's that covers off where we're located online. Martin [00:34:33]: Brilliant. That's fantastic. So something I always ask people is, is there anything I've forgotten to ask you? Jade [00:34:41]: I think you've been incredibly thorough, Martin. Yeah. I could just talk endlessly about bamboozle, so best not ask me anything else. Martin [00:33:05]: Alright. That's great. I'm gonna move from you, Jade, now to to our listener. Hey, dear listener. Please Show some love for Jade by checking out all the show notes and the links to their website and the socials. You can find them on marketharboroughbiznetwork.co.uk/podcast. And even better, why not join in? Leave a comment, a question, or a suggestion. Both, us at, the podcast and and Jade at Bamboozle Theater Company are really interested to hear what you've got to say. Martin [00:35:27]: We appreciate any learning that we can make this show better for you. And, hey, if you wanna be a guest, or take advantage of our sponsorship details. Our early sponsorship package is coming to an end very soon, so Please do get in contact quickly before the price goes up. We would love to hear from you. Just pop along to the website for more details. This episode has been sponsored by TaxAssist. Thank you very much for doing that. You can find them at taxassist.co.uk. Martin [00:36:02]: And, Jade, finally to say thank you once more for sharing Bamboozle Theatre Company with us, And we look forward to working with you in 2024. Jade [00:36:12]: Thanks so much,

Martin [00:00:11]: Hello. I'm your podcast host, Martin Robson. Harborough Hustle proudly sponsors local charities. Check us out on marketharboroughbiznetwork.co.uk/podcast, where you can find a transcript of today's podcast, all the links that I mentioned, posts that you can share on social media to spread the word, and everything you need to know if you'd like to help our local charities Find out more about our lovely sponsors. Today, I'm going to be speaking to Sam from Rover's Return dog training. But Just before we get into our conversation, let's hear from our lovely sponsor. Welcome to this episode of Harborough Hustle, Well, I'm delighted to be chatting with Sam from Rover's Return dog training. Hi, Sam. Sam [00:01:06]: Hi, Martin. Thanks for having me. Martin [00:01:08]: Brilliant that that you're here. It's lovely to see you. Have you been out walking the dogs at all this morning yet? Sam [00:01:15]: Not yet. Now I'm gonna wait for it to warm up a little bit, and then we're gonna go out for a nice long walk. Martin [00:01:20]: Fantastic. So you'll be going out in about a month and a half's time. Great. Alright. So the first question we always start off with is is just a a little nutshell version because we're gonna go deeper, you know, as we go on. Just tell us a a little bit about who you are, where do you live, what do you do, and what do you do outside of work? Sam [00:01:40]: So, yeah, my name's Sam. I live in Ullesthorpe, and I am a qualified dog trainer and behaviorist. I like to go to the gym outside work. I like to socialize with my friends, go out walking with the dogs, and just try to be as active as I can. Martin [00:01:57]: Fantastic. Yeah. It's it's always a challenge I find trying to get as active as I want to be, but, Good thing to keep us young, something like that. Sam [00:02:06]: Yeah. Martin [00:02:08]: You're doing dog training. So what kind of things do you do? I mean, do you run classes? Do you what do you do? Sam [00:02:21]: Yes. I've got classes. I run group classes. So puppy classes, follow on classes, scent work classes, which are absolutely fantastic for scent work. So I'm looking to sort of develop those a lot more and get people to understand the benefits of some work for their dogs. And, I specialize in behavior work for fear, anxious, and reactive type of behaviors in dogs. Martin [00:02:47]: Okay. Alright. Just just a little bit on the, the scent work as well. What what actually could you tell us a little bit more about that? Sam [00:02:54]: Yeah. So the dog's nose is the their primary sense. So they literally smell everything before they do anything else, just like we look at something first because our eyes are our primary center center site. They use their nose. And, actually, what happens in their nose when they're sniffing, starts A whole rolling neurons and hormones splash to the brain, and then you get calmness. You burn lots of energy. They got a lot of information, and it's just absolutely fantastic. The process of them sniffing is what happens is the nose and then in their brain is absolutely amazing. Martin [00:03:40]: Okay. Fantastic. We'll come back to, maybe How you might actually use that in a training sense, later in our chat. But, let me just ask you. So how did you actually get started with this, as a business? Sam [00:03:54]: Well, I was actually working for the prison service, and I wasn't overly happy with my job. And I wanted to initially do grooming. So I went and spent a day working with a groomer, washing the dogs, drying. The dogs didn't obviously do any cutting of the dogs. And I didn't overly enjoy it if I'm honest, so I decided that working with dogs is what I wanted to do. I've always had dogs in my life. So I started doing day care and walking. And because I wanted to understand dogs more, I did a Level 3 course in dog behavior. Sam [00:04:32]: Honestly, since then, I haven't stopped learning about dogs from there. I went on and did a level 4. I did dog training courses with APDT UK. I've done numerous behavior courses, And I just find the whole subject fascinating. It's, I really enjoy it. And I've got 2 docs myself. And, when Ernie was So to reach his teenage years, I used a method on him that I found in a dog training book, which actually caused him to be quite scared. I threw something on the floor. Sam [00:05:07]: And in the book, it was sort of to say, come back to me. There's me thinking that was a good thing to do because he was getting a bit naughty running off, but in fact, it actually scared him and he ran off from me even more. So that just made me want to learn why that happened, and that's what has made me choose force free training instead of sort of the more punitive methods of dog training that are out there. Martin [00:05:31]: Really interesting. And, you mentioned APDT, I think it was. What's that? Sam [00:05:36]: The Association of Pet Dog Trainers. They want they're one of the lead lead professional bodies of dog trainers, vets, take advice from them, Deborah, all sorts of people. So, yes, really good organizations to be affiliated with. Martin [00:05:50]: Okay. And it's it's quite interesting you're talking there about different, certifications, different trainings you've gone. Is there any kind of requirement, you know, somebody wants to say, hey. I'm a dog trainer. Do you actually do any of this stuff, or is that something you've chosen to do? Sam [00:06:08]: It's something I've chosen to do because I wanted to do it properly anybody can become a dog trainer. It's unregulated. There's no standard. So you could set up a dog training business tomorrow if you wanted to. People are paying money and you would probably I think you've got a dog yourself, haven't you? So you've got some knowledge of dogs. But In terms of their behavior work, and what's going on in their brains and their associated hormones, it's very specific. So, Yeah. It's quite worrying that some people are actually out there calling themselves behaviorists without any qualifications at all. Martin [00:06:43]: Yeah. Absolutely. And I guess a little bit related to that is, do you think there's Something that people don't think about enough if they're gonna, hire a dog trainer, you know, to to help their their dog, and their relationship with them, are there things that people should think about more? Sam [00:07:02]: Absolutely. Yes. You know, our members of various dog, not dog. Sorry. Facebook pages of, you know, dog breeds and dog friendlies. And some of the people that People are recommending on there use some real harsh methods of dogs and have a real outdated view on training. And these people are recommending those people saying it it worked for my dog. And, unfortunately, it does work, but it works because you're pressing and stopping the behavior and not actually tackling the emotion. Sam [00:07:36]: So it only worked for a certain amount of time because if you've not dealt with the emotions, then the behavior would have to come out in in some way or another. Martin [00:07:47]: That's how Sam [00:07:48]: that it works. Martin [00:07:49]: I guess that's the same with Humans, actually. Yes. Exactly Sam [00:07:51]: the same with humans. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Martin [00:07:55]: And and you mentioned, Force free training as as the way that that you've gone. What are some of the the examples of things that you wouldn't do? Would you recommend other people do as well come to that? Sam [00:08:09]: A lot of a lot of things people don't understand. Things like slip leads are are technically forceful because they tighten around the dog's neck, and the dog's neck's very delicate. And I whenever I sort of Put that on any of my social media. I get a lot of backlash saying I'm wrong, but I don't use any equipment that increases any version of any force or aversion. So prong collars go around the neck, and they stick spikes into the dog's neck to stop pulling or, lunging or barking towards the the dogs. So you're basically using a form of pain to stop that behavior because when the dog does those behaviors, it doesn't like the pain so, therefore, it stops doing it. So 8 collars, prom collars, slick leads. Some head some head hold tears as well. Sam [00:09:02]: I don't I don't I know I don't use. To be fair, I don't recommend head to toe to toe in general because they are punishing. However, there are times when it comes to being a risk that I may recommend a certain type so the person can actually walk their dogs. Martin [00:09:17]: So, I mean, what what's the alternative then? When you're talking about force what would you do in order to get the same effect without having to do aversion therapy? Sam [00:09:25]: It's about thinking about why the dog's acting that way in the 1st place. So when we think about and barking at other dogs. I do an assessment to find out why the dog needs to be act that way because all behavior is due to a Internal physiological reason. So we tackle that reason first. So in that case, it's likely that the dog's frustrated or fearful around other dogs. So we work on building optimism. We work on calmness to reduce those stress hormones that are driving the behavior because they stay in the system for quite a long time. We work on their ability to Disengage and focus on other things, and all using food and toys and just calmness in general. Sam [00:10:11]: So you've gotta literally strip it right back It's very raw state of why that dog's doing that way doing that behavior and put something into place to Actually, say, no. You don't need to feel that way. So then they don't need to behave that way. So once you've tackled those underlying emotions, The behavior actually reduces and then stops because they don't need to behave that way. They don't need to shout to say, I'm scared. Help me because you've already put that into place before they even feel that way. Martin [00:10:43]: It's really interesting. I mean, is there any you you said you used to be in the prison before you did all this, obviously, I mean, part of the, prison program is is trying to reform and and help prisoners. They don't reoffend. Do they have anything like that? Are are there any parallels, I suppose, with the kind of, like, trying to find out underlying reasons and and tackling those rather than just the the symptoms? Sam [00:11:06]: Yeah. I actually worked in offender management, so that was more about looking at, circumstances, why they committed the crimes, family life, drug use, you know, finances, all those sorts of things. It was a very The assessment process literally looked at everything from offending history to their childhood, to their family life, alcohol abuse, substance abuse. You know, same thing. We looked at everything, and then we came up with a plan to help them to stop committing those crimes and acting that behavior pattern again. It's always a behavior pattern that happens, this happens, they commit crime. So, yeah, it's very, very similar. Martin [00:11:46]: Mhmm. It's just interesting listening to your talk there and thinking, I mean, for so many people, your your dog is, you know, your son or your daughter, if you like. And and yet, you know, we have a way of of dealing with with humans, and sometimes we don't Apply the same, psychology with with animals, and yet, you know, quite clearly, That's something, a path that you're going down and and finding results in. Sam [00:12:14]: It's very difficult for people to put, Put it into the animal's perspective because we know how we think. So you can't think how a dog thinks. So, obviously, I do because I've got the training, but I absolutely understand that we you know, quite often people say, well, my dog's doing this because of that, But that's actually what a human would do, whereas we have to think of it as what would my dog do because they haven't got the same brain components we have, and they can't think as we do. So quite a lot quite often, it's unfair what we put, What we think a behavior is into a dog's behavior. Martin [00:12:57]: Yeah. No. That makes a lot of sense. So, I mean, you've you've clearly done a lot of training. You've got a lot of experience in this Is there something you wish you'd known earlier in your journey that you could now kind of tell a younger Sam, hey? Sam [00:13:12]: Yeah. The only thing I would probably change is just to be a bit more confident and go out there. It me a long, long time to start doing dog training from from when I did my day care to the walking to actually going into training full time. I had the qualifications, and I probably had the skills as well, but I didn't have the confidence to sort of put myself out there. So I would probably just Tell myself that, you know, you do know enough now. There was a I suppose there was a bit of a time when I first started I probably did some things. And when I think back now, I do think, well, I didn't know enough to actually be doing that. But, unfortunately, that's just, again, due to the regulations that there's so many courses out there. Sam [00:14:00]: You do some, and they're not as good as some of the others. So, Obviously, now I've grown and done a lot more courses. I know what I didn't know then, if that makes sense. Martin [00:14:10]: It it does. I mean, there's there's a Classic kind of thing, you know, a progression through you don't know what you don't know Yeah. To, now I know what I don't know, And now I've not got to find out how do I actually get to know that. You know? So it's that kind of stage in in all different, All different trades and things and and aspects of life, I suppose. Sam [00:14:31]: Yeah. Martin [00:14:32]: Is there anyone, that was kind of like a a mentor to you or someone you looked up to and went, you know, and learned from? Sam [00:14:39]: Yeah. Exclusive. Great dog trainers I follow online. Chirag Patel, I think he's a wonderful trainer. There's some that I used to follow that I don't follow now because I don't like the way that they work. No. Shira Patel, definitely. Can't think of any other names off the top of my head, but, Yeah. Sam [00:15:00]: And I've recently been working with Helen Motoren from the, pet professional network. So I've been doing some mentoring on Dog training and business with her as well. Martin [00:15:10]: Okay. Fantastic. So that would kinda be like if we're talking about someone who's who you admire now, Perhaps you would fall into that category. Sam [00:15:18]: Yeah. Yeah. There's lot there's lots of great drug dog dog trainers that I I admire now and I follow on their social media and, You know, pick up tips from them. Emily Lan Larnam, I think her name is, on YouTube. She's a fantastic trainer from America. Martin [00:15:35]: So, I mean, you're you're picking up tips, you know, from groups that you're in, etcetera. If if if someone like me wanted to pick up, some tips or some information from you. I'm not quite ready yet to actually hire you or whatnot. Is is there a way of me doing that? Sam [00:15:52]: I've got a blog on my website, so you can check out my blogs. I write 1 every week on various different subjects, So I'm sure there'll be something that you can learn from. I do have a YouTube channel. It's, it's fledgling at the moment, so there's not an awful lot on there, but there will be incoming times. And you can always book a free call with me to have a about anything that you need to. Even if you're not quite ready to to go there, I can have a chat with you about what you need and how I can help you in the future. Martin [00:16:25]: Brilliant. Okay. Well, obviously, in in the show notes, we'll be including all the links to, Sam's blog, to The, the fledgling or puppy YouTube channel, and, and, obviously, how you can get in contact with with her as well. So, we'll we'll get to that bit in the end. We'll have it all in in the notes. One of the questions I always ask, is there anything you still want to learn? It sounds like you are a keen learner. Sam [00:16:53]: Oh, there's I have to actually stop myself from doing courses. My next step, I think, is going to be reiki for animals. Martin [00:17:01]: Oh, wow. Sam [00:17:02]: So I'm speaking with A lady called Sarah Johnson, locally to Willistop, she's a Reiki practitioner, and she does training for people wanting to learn Reiki and do it on the general public. So I've been speaking to her about doing it on animals as well, and there's a chat on YouTube is not YouTube. Sorry. Facebook that, that does Reiki for animals as well. So I think next year, that'll be my focus. Martin [00:17:29]: Well, I would certainly look out for that. I've not heard of that because it could be interesting to see how that goes. Sam [00:17:33]: Done myself. It's very relaxing. Not at all what I expected, but, yeah, I'm I'm quite looking forward to finding out a bit more about that, actually. Martin [00:17:43]: So confession time. What Which thing is one of the biggest mistakes you've made in business, and were you able to learn anything from it? Sam [00:17:53]: I just think sometimes I just it's just dealing with people, isn't it? You learn I I learn from every single person that I deal with. You don't always get everything right. Sometimes you upset people unintentionally. You know? And and I have done that, but I learn from it and change and try and make the best I can from all the situations that I find myself in and make my future interactions with my clients as Best as I can, really. Martin [00:18:22]: Can't say fair enough. Let's flip it 180. What about your proudest business moment? Sam [00:18:27]: I think just, completing at my level 6 behavior course that I did. I I managed to do it a lot quicker during lockdown, because, obviously, we weren't doing anything, so I was pretty much studying, and doing probably a module a week over that. So I got through it really quickly. So I did that. I got qualified in level 6, canine behavior. And all the courses that I've done really, to be fair, on setting up the business. I think they're really proud of that. Martin [00:18:56]: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, at at any time, Setting up a business, but, obviously, over the last few years, we've had you know, it's a a real achievement to be keeping going with that. Let's sync. So oh, that's what I want to ask. Sorry. Level 6, I presume, is the top level? Sam [00:19:15]: Yes. So you can go to university To, animal animal management, animal behavior, there's master's, there's bachelor's degrees. They're based on animals, not just dogs, and, obviously, very expensive and which is 3, 4 year courses, which I couldn't do because I was having to work full time. So, yeah, there's dig varying different degrees. It's a it's an equivalent to a a master's degree at University, basically. Martin [00:19:49]: Wow. Fantastic. Congratulations. Sam [00:19:51]: Yeah. Thank you. Martin [00:19:53]: So, I mean, if if you weren't working in this industry, Which it sounds like it's your passion anyway. Absolutely. What what else might you have done? Sam [00:20:03]: Probably gone into fitness or something like that. Yeah. Quite I like doing fitness. I'm quite keen into my fitness. I probably would have gone into that side of it. Martin [00:20:13]: Okay. Alright. And, one of the questions we always ask is is what's on your bucket list? I got told in one of these these So it's a bucket list wasn't a good good term to use. So, what else are you hoping to achieve in life? Sam [00:20:29]: Travel more, I think. I have not seen too much of this world, and I think it's worth doing before I get too old and Can't explore and enjoy it. So, yeah, definitely, traveling's on my list of things I want to do. Martin [00:20:43]: Fantastic. I'd highly recommend it. Yeah. Do you have a hidden talent that not many people know about? Sam [00:20:50]: No. I don't. I don't think I do, actually. No. Dog training. Well, no. That's not hidden, is it? Martin [00:20:56]: No. Absolutely. Sam [00:20:57]: No. I don't think I have actually. No. Martin [00:21:00]: Well, that means you're actually focused on what you're really good at. You know? Not everybody can say that, so that's a good thing. We did kind of mention briefly before, you know, about contacting you. So, What are the actual, name of the YouTube channel, your website, and and, you know, any other socials that we can get you on? Sam [00:21:19]: Well, I'm actually just transitioning my the name of the business. So you might find some places say Rover's Return Dog Training Academy, but I'm just Changing it to Rovers Return dog training and behaviour consultant. So I'm in the process of changing each of my channels. So, yeah, I'm on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok. You'll see quite a few videos on TikTok where I I talk about various subjects. Martin [00:21:49]: And that's all under Rover's Return? Sam [00:21:51]: Rover's Return. Yeah. Dog training. Yeah. Okay. Martin [00:21:53]: And I've gotta ask you why the name? Sam [00:21:55]: I wanted something that people would remember. I wouldn't necessarily say I was a Coronation Street fan, but, But it's a catchy name. A lot of people say to me, oh, I love your name. So yeah. I think Martin [00:21:48]: Absolutely. I remember the first time I came across it, you know, and I'm like, obviously, yeah, Rover dog. Rover's return. You know? But You do kind of think, where's the coronation? Yeah. Sam [00:22:16]: I like little play on words. Martin [00:22:19]: Brilliant. Alright. It's been fun, Sam. Is there I mean, before I let you go, is there anything that you'd like to share with us that, or sorry. No. Not share with us. What am I talking about? Dear me, it's been a long day. Is there anything I haven't asked you that that I should've? Sam [00:22:39]: No. I don't think so. I can't think of anything off the top of my head. Martin [00:22:44]: Okay. Sam [00:22:45]: You haven't asked me about my 2 little doggies. Martin [00:22:48]: That's true. That's true. And I know you've got Ernie, so I was gonna assume what the other one's called, but tell us anyway. Sam [00:22:55]: Bert and Ernie. My little double trouble. Martin [00:23:01]: What breed are they? Sam [00:23:02]: My Labradoodles. So they actually are my inspiration. They're my light bulb moment of, you know, hang on a minute. We can do this better. We can do that better. You know, they might yeah. It does work. You know, you can change behaviours with force free training. Martin [00:23:22]: So I guess at the start, they weren't the the most obedient of dogs Sam [00:23:27]: Bert's always been very good. He's always He's always had great recall, and his recall went to pot when he reached his teenage years. So, again, that's something that I can relate to people. And when we moved, but reactivity got quite bad around this area. So that's where it spurred me to actually, Yeah. My studies then targeted that sort of types of behaviour, and that's why I specialize in them now Because I've been, I've worked through it. I've got I know the ups and the downs. I know how hard it is. Sam [00:24:03]: I can relate to people about how they're feeling about their dog. And, You know, when people think that your dog's being aggressive and they're gonna attack your dog when you know, actually, they're just feeling really stressed and anxious and You want to protect them? You mean, you don't want people to feel that way about you, dog? Martin [00:24:03]: No. Absolutely. That does remind me of one other thing, actually. I mean, It's reasonably topical to the point where we're recording this, things about, you know, XL bully dogs, and the other breeds that, you know, may or may not get banned, etcetera. I wondered if you had any message about that. Sam [00:24:38]: Yeah. It's really sad. I saw, actually, this morning. I think it was on TikTok or Facebook real. Somebody had abandoned, an XL Bully on a train, and it was there. I didn't have any lead or anything on. And you could just say it didn't know what to do. It was looking for some help. Sam [00:24:54]: You know? I just think it's really sad. I don't believe any Specific breed is dangerous, but I also don't think that you can just say it's the owner's fault. There's not one thing that Contributes to any dog's behavior. It's a number of things. You can't say a dog a particular dog breed is dangerous. I absolutely accept that they're big dogs. They're powerful dogs. And when they do, attack, then more, harm can be done. Sam [00:25:28]: I sort of accept that, and that's potentially why you're seeing The more on the news because more harm's been done by the XL bully than, say, a chihuahua would. But I don't believe that they're A particularly dangerous dog, and I don't think we have the data to actually prove that, as a breed, they are a dangerous dog that needs to be banned. We need to look at how many there are in the UK versus how many attacks, you know, and look at other breeds as well and what other breeds of of dogs that have that have attacked as well on a similar scale because I think you'll find that it that that is quite shocking as as, you know, statistics go. Martin [00:26:07]: And I suppose the underlying message really is no matter what breed of dog you've got, if it's got the right training, and and the right environment, then you're gonna maximize the chances. You'll never obliterate them completely, but maximize chances of of that, you know, being a great dog to have. Sam [00:26:25]: Yeah. Force free training. We know that punishment training, science has told us that that increases the risk of aggression in dogs, pain. That's another thing we need to be aware of. We often quite can't tell when your dogs are in pain Because animals hide it, it's part of their survival instinct that they don't show pain. But pain's one thing that I always look at when your dog's being aggressive because if they are in pain, they're more likely to, resort to sort of snapping and biting to protect themselves, then they they weren't in pain. So that's another thing that you need to look at, pain. We do look at the breed. Sam [00:27:04]: Don't get me wrong, but we look at the environment. We look at rest. We look at diet. There's so much that you need to take into account when you're dealing with a dog's behavior. Martin [00:24:53]: Fantastic. Listener, you're likely to be listening to this. I mean, if it come if you're listening just after it's been published as opposed to in 6 months' time, will be somewhere around about Christmas time. So, I mean, there is that old thing, you know, a dog is for life, not for Christmas. So, if you do get a dog as a present. Then please make sure you go and check out, Sam's website. There's so much good information on there. Martin [00:27:42]: That can help you, you know, really enjoy, and grow your relationship with your dog. Sam, it's been, wonderful talking to you. So just before you go, I'd I'd like to say, dear listener, please show some love for Sam. Check out all the show notes, and the links to their website and their socials. You can find that all on marketharboroughbiznetwork.co.uk/podcast. And even better, join in. Leave a comment, leave a question, leave a suggestion. We really appreciate learning how we can make the show, even better for you. Martin [00:28:17]: If you'd like to be a guest on the show, then pop along to the website. There's it shows you how you can do that. And we've still got a Couple of sponsorship deals left, at special prices for this year. So if you wanna sponsor the show, get along quick. Again, pop along to the website, get in contact with us. This, episode of Harborough Hustle has been sponsored by, tax assist accountants. At taxassist.co.uk. Thank you very much, and we'll catch you on the next one. Martin [00:28:50]: Thanks, Sam. Sam [00:28:51]: Thank you, Martin. Bye.

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