Not Small Men

PODCAST · sports

Not Small Men

6-part audio docuseries on women's football around the world.Through interviews with 23 women's football insiders, Not Small Men looks at fandom, finances, players, the role of men, world perspectives and the future of the game.Presented by Charlie Dobres, former Director at Lewes FC, one of the world's most pioneering football clubs.

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    Interview 3 - Sadia Sheikh

    Dr Sadia Sheikh founded DIYA FC in Pakistan, in 2002. It started life as a football centre for young girls & women, and has developed into a highly successful academy that not only coaches football, and runs a team in the National Women Football Championship, but changes girls' lives. This inspirational interview was recorded in late 2024.

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    Interview 2 - Moya Dodd

    Moya Dodd believes that women's football "should be given its own head".She is a Lawyer and Sports Consultant, Co-Chair at Common Goal, member of the Women's Leagues Forum. She has also been a FIFA ExCo and AFC ExCo member. As a player, she was vice Captain of the Matildas.Her views on women's football and its governance are a must-hear for anyone who cares about the integrity and future of the women's game.

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    Interview 1 - Sue Campbell

    Baroness Sue Campbell became the FA Director of Women's Football in 2016. She created and oversaw implementation of the roadmap for developing the women's game, that set it firmly on the path to professionalisation and success.This very candid interview was recorded in late Summer 2024 and was the final full-length interview she gave before stepping down from her role in December 2024.

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    6. The Future

    If the future of women's football is left to 'market forces', then it risks becoming just a version of the men's game. Because the 'market' is dominated by men's football and the money to which it has access. In this final episode, we look at the optimal conditions needed to create a strong, authentic women's game that benefits every club and every player, not just the elite.Guests (in order of appearance):SUE CAMPBELL               FORMER FA DIRECTOR OF WOMEN’S FOOTBALLALEXANDER VON SCHIRMEISTER      MD, Xero UK & Emerging MarketsJULIAN HADWIGER     WHU-OTTO BEISHEIM SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENTLEE SANDERS                  HEAD OF FOOTBALL, DURHAM WOMEN FCELLIE LEEK                         FORMER PLAYERJENNIFER HASKEL       DELOITTE SPORTS BUSINESS GROUPMOYA DODD                    LAWYER, SPORTS CONSULTANTKIERON O’CONNOR    THE SWISS RAMBLE NATALIE BURRELL         WOMEN’S FOOTBALL FANROLAND GISCARD D’ESTAING    WOMAN UP AGENCYPAUL DRESIBACH          WOMEN’S FOOTBALL STRATEGISTHELEN WARD                  GENERAL MANAGER, WATFORD WOMENJENNIFER HASKEL       DELOITTE SPORTS BUSINESS GROUPBETTINA BAER                 LEAD CONSULTANT, TWO CIRCLESYVONNE HARRISON   CEO, WOMEN IN FOOTBALLDR SADIA SHEIKH          FOUNDER, DIYA WOMEN FCANJALI SHAH                   PIFA, INDIAN WOMEN’S FOOTBALL ALLIANCE

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    5. The Role of Men

    The biggest factor affecting the development of women's football is... men's football. It casts an enormous shadow that creates a big challenge to the women's game. Partly because of the temptation (wrongly) to emulate it, but partly also because it currently controls the capital that funds the growth of the women's game. So, what is the role of men's football and men, right now, and also historically?Guests (in order of appearance):HELEN WARD                  GENERAL MANAGER, WATFORD WOMENJENNIFER HASKEL       DELOITTE SPORTS BUSINESS GROUPNATALIE BURRELL        WOMEN’S FOOTBALL FANBETTINA BAER                 LEAD CONSULTANT, TWO CIRCLESPAUL DRESIBACH         WOMEN’S FOOTBALL STRATEGISTMOYA DODD                    LAWYER, SPORTS CONSULTANTKELLY LINDSEY               COO, DIRECTOR FOOTBALL, LEWES FCFANNY ALMERSSON   STOCKHOLM SCHOOL OF ECONOMICSANJALI SHAH                   PIFA, INDIAN WOMEN’S FOOTBALL ALLIANCEROLAND GISCARD D’ESTAING    WOMAN UP AGENCYLEE SANDERS                  HEAD OF FOOTBALL, DURHAM WOMEN FCELLIE LEEK                        FORMER PLAYERIRENE MERINO              GLOBAL HEAD OF GENDER BALANCE, DECATHLONYVONNE HARRISON CEO, WOMEN IN FOOTBALLDR SADIA SHEIKH        FOUNDER, DIYA WOMEN FCJULIAN HADWIGER    WHU-OTTO BEISHEIM SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENTMARK BRADLEY             FAN EXPERIENCE COMPANYKIERON O’CONNOR    THE SWISS RAMBLE 

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    4. Worldwide Development

    Women's Football is growing all over the world, but WHY women play, beyond the more developed markets like the USA and Europe, gives a fascinating insight into the power and social importance of the women's game.Guests (in order of appearance):MOYA DODD                  LAWYER, SPORTS CONSULTANTELLIE LEEK                        FORMER PLAYERIVI CASAGRANDE        CASAGRANDE COACHINGKELLY LINDSEY              COO, DIRECTOR FOOTBALL, LEWES FCJENNIFER HASKEL       DELOITTE SPORTS BUSINESS GROUPKIERON O’CONNOR    THE SWISS RAMBLE JULIAN HADWIGER      WHU-OTTO BEISHEIM SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENTIRENE MERINO                GLOBAL HEAD OF GENDER BALANCE, DECATHLONROLAND GISCARD D’ESTAING    WOMAN UP AGENCYFANNY ALMERSSON   STOCKHOLM SCHOOL OF ECONOMICSPAUL DRESIBACH          WOMEN’S FOOTBALL STRATEGISTDR SADIA SHEIKH          FOUNDER, DIYA WOMEN FCANJALI SHAH                   PIFA, INDIAN WOMEN’S FOOTBALL ALLIANCE

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    3. Revenues

    The business of women's football is very much still in a start-up phase. But already, elite clubs, with their immediate access to capital, are dominating Leagues. What earned revenue streams are available to clubs and what are the prospects for attracting external investment?Guests (in order of appearance):SUE CAMPBELL FORMER FA DIRECTOR OF WOMEN’S FOOTBALLLEE SANDERS HEAD OF FOOTBALL, DURHAM FCHELEN WARD GM, WATFORD WOMENKELLY LINDSEY COO, DIRECTOR FOOTBALL, LEWES FCALEX VON SCHIRMEISTER MD, Xero UKJENNIFER HASKEL DELOITTE SPORTS BUSINESS GROUPKIERON O’CONNOR THE SWISS RAMBLEJULIAN HADWIGER WHU-OTTO BEISHEIM SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENTIRENE MERINO DECATHLONFANNY ALMERSSON STOCKHOLM SCHOOL OF ECONOMICSBETTINA BAER LEAD CONSULTANT, TWO CIRCLESPAUL DRESIBACH WOMEN’S FOOTBALL STRATEGISTROLAND GISCARD D’ESTAING WOMAN UP AGENCY

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    2. Players

    'Without fans, football is nothing'. But try playing without the players...Hear from 12 guests on the reality of being a player, from the physical to the financial. It's getting good at the top, but, for everyone else...Guests (in order of appearance):SUE CAMPBELL FORMER FA DIRECTOR OF WOMEN’S FOOTBALLIVI CASAGRANDE CASAGRANDE COACHINGROLAND GISCARD D’ESTAING WOMAN UP AGENCYJENNIFER HASKEL DELOITTE SPORTS BUSINESS GROUPALEX VON SCHIRMEISTER MD, Xero UKIRENE MERINO DECATHLONELLIE LEEK FORMER PLAYERDR STACY SIMS HEALTH & PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTHELEN WARD GM, WATFORD WOMENANJALI SHAH PIFA, IWFAKELLY LINDSEY COO, DIRECTOR FOOTBALL, LEWES FCDR SADIA SHEIKH FOUNDER, DIYA WOMEN FC

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    1. Fans

    There's something... different about many fans of women's football. Analysis and opinion from 17 different voices within the game. What do YOU think? Comment here or on LinkedIn (by following Charlie Dobres).This week's guests (in order of appearance):ELLIE LEEK FORMER PLAYERMARK BRADLEY FAN EXPERIENCE COMPANYLEE SANDERS HEAD OF FOOTBALL, DURHAM FCJUAN BRADLEY WOMEN’S FOOTBALL FANBETTINA BAER LEAD CONSULTANT, TWO CIRCLESNATALIE BURRELL WOMEN’S FOOTBALL FANPAUL DRESIBACH WOMEN’S FOOTBALL STRATEGISTFANNY ALMERSSON STOCKHOLM SCHOOL OF ECONOMICSJENNIFER HASKEL DELOITTE SPORTS BUSINESS GROUPHELEN WARD GENERAL MANAGER, WATFORD WOMENJULIAN HADWIGER WHU-OTTO BEISHEIM SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENTMOYA DODD LAWYER, SPORTS CONSULTANTKIERON O’CONNOR THE SWISS RAMBLE IRENE MERINO DECATHLONROLAND GISCARD D’ESTAING WOMAN UP AGENCYANJALI SHAH PIFA, IWFASUE CAMPBELL FORMER FA DIRECTOR OF WOMEN’S FOOTBALL

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    TRAILER

    Not Small Men is a six-part audio docuseries on women's football, where it's at and where it's going. The series looks mostly at the situation in England, but also considers the development of the game around the world.Episodes are released every Wednesday, starting on 5th March.

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ABOUT THIS SHOW

6-part audio docuseries on women's football around the world.Through interviews with 23 women's football insiders, Not Small Men looks at fandom, finances, players, the role of men, world perspectives and the future of the game.Presented by Charlie Dobres, former Director at Lewes FC, one of the world's most pioneering football clubs.

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