On Theme: Design Systems in Depth

Murphy Trueman joins me to dig into something most design system teams already know but haven't wanted to say out loud: your design system isn't ready for AI. Ambiguous tokens, undocumented rules, and a lack of parity that only works because experienced humans know how to use the system... we've been getting away with it for years. AI just made the bill come due. We discuss what it actually means to treat your design system like a semantic API, how to think about governance, and why the fixes AI demands are ones we probably should have made years ago. Plus, what it means to allow more roles (and LLMs) to build with the system, and and what teams can do right now to get their house in order.Resources & Linkshttps://murphytrueman.com/https://blog.murphytrueman.com/https://designsystemsforai.com/https://designsystemops.com/📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Maya draws on her experience as a design systems PM at both REI and lululemon to explore what makes ecommerce design systems distinct. From the component library decisions to supporting editorial flexibility and brand storytelling, this episode digs into the real differences between ecommerce systems and other product contexts — and what's driving non-tech companies to invest in designs systems now.Resources & LinksMaya Hampton on LinkedInMaya's writing on MediumDriving design system adoptionREI Cedar system📲 Send me a text!Support the show

There’s so much happening in the world of design systems: so much noise, so many new tools, and so much pressure. Where to start?Building on what I wrote on the Zeroheight blog, in this minisode I’m offering tactical suggestions for cutting through the noise.I cover the three areas you should be focusing on in your design system right now—MCPs, skills, and agents.md; how to get started designing with code; and defining design guidelines and semantic components—plus a detour into governance and ways of working.But the bit that’s occupying my brain space right now is that I believe that design system practitioners are uniquely positioned to help organizations change how they work with AI, because we own the layer that says: this is how you build UI and how design and engineering collaborate. Maybe the most important thing that you can be doing is thinking about how you can help your product teams think about what it means to build products today, and how we do it.ResourcesMy writing for Zeroheight:AI in design systems: What’s changing in 20263 practical ways LLMs can support design systems teams today (Oct 2025)Some Murphy Trueman hits:The prompt you never wroteYour next design system user is an agentYour design system might be AI-ready. Your organisation probably isn't.Your design system has opinions. They're just not being enforcedThe AI feedback loop: When design systems train the models that critique themThe bidirectional design system: When code talks back to designErika Flowers, Open Vector📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Y’all know I am fully bought in on design-with-code tools, so I loved this episode with Robin Cannon, VP of Product at Knapsack and former IBM Carbon and J.P. Morgan Salt design system exec, on why he thinks the infinite canvas is obsolete, and what we might replace it with. Robin chats with us about a future where software design happens in the same medium as production code, making the “infinite canvas” abstraction obsolete. But what does “designing with code” really look like today… and in the future? We explore a world with tools that could enable us to build with design-system rules plus broader product context. Plus we discuss why today’s design-with-code tools aren’t quite there yet, the enterprise barriers to working in new ways, and you as a designer can make this shift.Links & ReferencesRobin Cannon on LinkedInrobin-cannon.comBuilding for coherence, not compliance, lessons from Baldurs Gate 3, by Murphy TruemanErika Flowers, Zero Vector and Open Vector design approachAgentic Development is just MMOs for Coding, and I am LFG, Erika FlowersKnapsackDessn and Mockdown💖 Season 2 of On Theme is officially here! 🎉 💖 If you like what you're hearing from On Theme, hit subscribe in your favorite podcast platform and sign up to get episode release notes at designsystemsontheme.com! On Theme is  sponsor free and listener supported, so please support the show with a monthly donation.📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Noelle joins me again for some 2026 predictions trend encapsulations, and we try to unpack the absolute madness of the first two months of 2026. 1️⃣  Designing with code is in, making pictures of UIs is out. 2️⃣ The new critical deliverables for systems teams are design guidelines, agent rules, tokens, and semantic APIs. 3️⃣ We're gonna see a real focus on brand expression, but also on one-offs. 4️⃣ Design system teams, you do organizational behavior change. 5️⃣ The next chapter of the design system narrative is around quality rather than efficiency. Plus: the rise of the design engineer and a return to the early 2000s ways of working? I hope so!, nothingburger brands, and design systems gatekeeping.Season 2 of On Theme is officially here! 🎉 💖 If you like what you're hearing from On Theme, please hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. On Theme is  sponsor free and listener supported, so please support the show with a monthly donation.📲 Send me a text!Support the show

My very first minisode of the entire podcast was some 2025 predictions, and a lot has changed. (Honestly, what was I thinking trying to make predictions in the era of AI? fml) Noelle Lansford joined me for Season Two's official first episode to  recap my 2025 predictions with me and look back on the trends and themes we saw in design-systems-land last year.Stay tuned for part two where we dive in to our 2026 predictions!📲 Send me a text!Support the show

I'm back from Zeroheight's Converge conference in Bristol, UK, with my recap and thoughts. In this minisode, find out my three major themes from the event: reducing complexity, shifting towards code to design, and the narratives "framing our future". Resources & Links:Zeroheight's Converge3 practical ways LLMs can support design systems teams today, on the Zeroheight blogFrom Promises to Practice: the Future of Design Systems, my talk at Converge (video coming soon)John Voss's talk Framing the Future (coming soon)US Section 174 R&D Tax explained📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Surprise minisode! In this quick episode, hear a few ways AI tools are useful for design systems now, my new favorite design-eng handoff tool, and three can't-miss industry events this fall.📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Chat, this is the last episode of season one! Thank you for listening and supporting the show! There's no better way to wrap up, IMO, than an optimistic and curious exploration of what it means to be a creative human in an increasingly technological world.So to wrap up season one, Natalya Shelburne joins me to explore how design leaders can cultivate creativity in an era of rapid technological and organizational change. Drawing from her degree and research in creativity, Natalya shares insights on fostering innovation, overcoming fear-driven management styles, and why embracing artistic thinking is essential for teams navigating the age of AI. She explains the importance of creating safe environments to unlock creative potential and why outdated corporate structures simply can't compete. Plus, flow state, goats, expansive thinking, and hobbies. Links & ReferencesNatalya Shelburne on LinkedInGitHub PrimerNatalya's talk at Beyond Tellerand, Channeling Chaos: Role of the Artist in the Age of AITwilio's Paste design system assistantResearch and books mentioned:Lev Vygotsky on cognitive developmentLauren Sosniak on phases of learningDr. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's classic book Flow and an overviewOliver Burkeman's Four Thousand WeeksThe Extended Mind💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Y’all, I’ll be honest. Some days, I’m scared and nervous and uncomfortable with AI’s emergence, and implications, too. But I am also curiously optimistic, and more importantly — I don’t want to use any platform I have to spread even more fear and discontent and drama. So today you’re getting a dose of two things that I love: infrastructure and optimism.Drawing from his experience leading design systems at three very large orgs, Sam Anderson from Intuit shares how framing design systems as infrastructure can help them be recognized as essential to business success. He shares his vision for the importance of patterns as the next frontier of systems work, particularly in a rapidly changing tech landscape accelerated by AI, and we talk about what leadership conversations look like. Plus, Sam drops a spicy take that he believes AI won’t destroy design system jobs but make us even more valuable.Links & ReferencesSam Anderson on LinkedInSam's article Design Systems are Infrastructure: The evolution of design systems in the age of AINate Baldwin's Leonardo and Proportio💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Guy Segal joins Elyse to unpack the messy, complicated world of… people. Guy shares practical strategies from his experience at Thomson Reuters, including the powerful "pre-mortem" exercise he used to rebuild trust and alignment for the design system. They get vulnerable and unpack why (as cliche as it sounds!) genuine listening, storytelling, learning to give and receive feedback, and actively engaging with product teams, is so much more impactful than relying solely on processes or artifacts. Plus, Guy shares why he hated it at first when product teams started using the name of the design system.Links & ReferencesGuy Segal on LinkedInGuy's talk at BeMore Festival on feedback, Working with Humans: Resolving Conflicts with EmpathyGuy's talk Mastering the Painless Design CritiqueGuy on the Knapsack Design Systems PodcastGuy's podcast, Design Downtime, celebrating the joys of living a balanced creative life outside the pixels and wireframesBrad Frost's article Choosing a Name for your Design System💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Ben Callahan joins Elyse for a fun conversation on creating impact with design systems. Ben shares insights from his consulting experience, discussing common pitfalls like organizations expecting a design system without adequately supporting their teams. They break down the "Four Quadrants of Design System Impact" framework, which breaks down tactical versus strategic work, helping teams avoid pitfalls like endless component creation. Plus, hear Ben’s predictions for the future of design systemsLinks & ReferencesBen Callahan on LinkedInThe QuestionRedwoods, Ben's community supporting design system practitionersBen's post on The Four Quadrants and Why you’re NOT seeing Holistic Impact from your Design SystemBen's overview of our episode of The QuestionCam Worboy's Broken Promises of Design Systems talk at Config 2024 (and the worst screen made with DS components)Kotter's Leading Change book💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Marcela Rodriguez Joos shares the story behind the One UPS project, a massive effort to modernize and unify UPS’ brand and digital experiences through a new design system. Marcela reveals how a “why does everything look different?” moment from their CEO was the catalyst for this ambitious effort, how they’re collaborating across a massive org, and successfully reducing development timelines from years down to months. Plus, Marcela’s team dishes out their design system spice takes!Links & ReferencesMarcela Rodriguez Joos on LinkedInMarcela on the Into Design Systems Connect your Design System to business value Roundtable💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Ever had a team come to you after an a11y audit like, "but I used the design system, why does my product have accessibility defects??" Daniel Henderson-Ede, one of design systems' leading accessibility voices, joins me on the show today to unpack a spicy myth in design systems: that accessibility can be fully "built-in." Daniel walks us through the common pitfalls of overselling accessibility, how teams often mistakenly assume the system handles everything, and we explore the challenges and missteps of managing accessibility.📋 Plus, check out Daniel's Systems-Accessibility Ownership Matrix resource that you can use on your Design System team!Links & ReferencesDaniel Henderson-Ede on LinkedInDaniel's websiteDaniel's recorded talks and showsMantis & Co accessibility servicesDownload Daniel and CVS's Figma Web Accessibility Annotation KitStark Figma pluginUse this for your teams! Daniel's Systems-Accessibility Ownership MatrixInconsistent consistency within design systems💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

This one’s a little bit different than some of the projects and topics that we've had on the podcast so far — we’re talking about starting a new role. I think it's one of the hardest things that we do sometimes as design system practitioners, because the design system is really about changing your organization, changing the way we build UI, and so there's a lot of weight on your shoulders when you come into a new role.Starting a new job as a design system practitioner can feel exciting and terrifying all at once—but Amy Ogg has some insights to help us navigate the emotional rollercoaster. Amy and Elyse chat about how to spend your first 30-60-90 days, building genuine trust, and why making big changes as a new hire can actually backfire. They commiserate over balancing the overwhelming backlog as a small team, and Amy shares why she thinks cross-training outside your expertise is a must. Plus, Amy shares how her experience as a barista shaped her approach to UX design ☕️💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesAmy Ogg on LinkedInDesire paths in UXAmy’s article on how starting out with research and understanding users can help shape effective design systems on the Design Systems for Figma blogYour first 90 days in a UX design role by Christopher NguyenThe First 90 Days (original book) by Michael D WatkinsInto Design Systems Meetups - Seattle, USA chapterWill Larson's book Staff Eng🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Design systems aren’t just about components—they’re about how teams work together to build better UI. Jeff Pelletier, a frontend engineer with a design background, joins the show to talk about feature workflows for design systems, how design and engineering can work in parallel, and why documentation should be part of the process, not an afterthought. Jeff and Elyse dive into how to create API-first component specs, the challenge of design-code parity, and the ~drama~ of having a formal process.💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesJeff Pelletier on LinkedIn and websiteNathan Curtis, Design System Features Step by StepJeff's article Front-end Roles and ResponsibilitiesJeff on Design System TiersChris Coyier, The Widening Responsibility for Front-End Developers🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Spotify’s ad platform just got a serious glow-up, and Smith and Tyce are here to tell us how they pulled it off. Smith Schwartz, Product Design Manager, and Tyce Clee, Engineering Manager, walk us through the redesign of Spotify Ads Manager—why it was needed, how they used design systems to make it happen, and what it took to get buy-in. Smith and Tyce tell us about the shift from a playful UI to a more data-dense, enterprise-friendly experience, how their local design system worked alongside Spotify’s global Encore system, and why storytelling (not just metrics) is key to selling design system work internally. Plus, how a simple name like "Bye Purple" helped them drive alignment and make the redesign a company-wide priority.💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesSmith Schwartz on LinkedInTyce Clee on LinkedInBackstory time! Smith & Tyce on the Knapsack Design Systems podcast last year talking about Ads Manager pre-redesignReimagining Design Systems at Spotify on spotify.designCreating coherence: How Spotify’s design system goes beyond platforms, on the Figma Shortcut blog🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Adriana Morales from HEB (aka the best grocery store) poses a tricky question for the show: what happens when your design system can't support all your products, or your flagship product? Hashtag enterprise organization problems. Adriana and I explore some of the scenarios where this might occur, the "system of systems" concept, product team autonomy, and pace layers. Don't miss Adriana's explanation of her "ways of working" workshops and thoughts on creating empathy across your org.💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesAdriana Morales on LinkedInHEBPace layers (might as well just link this from every episode??)🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

I invited Beau to the podcast because of his great Medium articles on design systems... but he's not working on a system team right now! Beau shares his experiences on both sides of the—fence? aisle?—and the lessons he's taken away. We chat about the tradeoffs of building for speed vs stability, bringing new designs for AI products into the system, onboarding, cross-team empathy, and why we're always complaining about the other side. Plus, find out what Beau wanted to be when he grew up.💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesBeau Ulrey on LinkedInBeau on the Knapsack Design System PodcastBeau's articles on MediumA Design System That Holds Your HandUS Bank Shield Design SystemOracle Redwood Design SystemShip Faster by Building Design Systems Slower - Big Medium (pace layers)🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

ToniAnn joins the show to share her experience building a multi-brand design system for BetMGM and Entain's joint venture. This episode is our first project deep dive and it's full of legacy codebases, lessons learned, and big wins. ToniAnn talks to us about dealing with ambiguity, owning your decisions, and keeping leadership on board as you ship a system that changes the way your business works—and your partners businesses, too.💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesToniAnn Drenckhahn on LinkedInBetMGM🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

If the way we're building design systems has a fatal flaw, it's "waiting for enough investment to get it right." In this episode, Brian teaches us to not wait for permission and how your product teams' success is your success. Brian reminds us how important it is to remember that we're all on the same team, building the same product—and why internal politics and storytelling matters way more than components. Plus, why design systems are like toilets (not a Dad joke, I promise) and why Brian and I think "measuring the system is hard" is a beautiful thing.💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesBrian Alfaro on LinkedInThe Washington Post Design SystemBrian on bringing value first on the Connecting your Design System to business value panel with Into Design SystemsBrian on the anatomy of WaPo's component sprints on the Figma blog🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

I'm thrilled to have the one and only Dan Mall on the show, and in this episode, we get deep into all the things you maybe don't want to do if you want your design system to be successful. Dan shares his experiences with failed design systems, one very failed attempt at pitching a system to leadership,  why he thinks design systems should be specific not generic and maybe... not include foundations? Plus, we talk about useless documentation, what's next for systems, and THE spiciest take on tokens.(Honestly, there are so many 🌶️ Spicy Takes™️ in this episode, we might have to rename the show to Design System Spicy Takes!)💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesDan Mall on LinkedInDan Mall's portfolioDesign System in 90 Days❗️Free Resource: Design Systems in 90 Days Figjam CanvasMore of Dan's free resources, talks, writingDesign that Scales bookBook a 1:1 with Dan🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

You can't talk about design systems lately without addressing the elephant in the room: layoffs. Noelle walks us through her experience of multiple layoffs in one year, why 2023 was so different than 2020, and how the success criteria of design systems correlated with team layoffs. We discuss the bogeyman of "getting zero results from your design system" and what Noelle was hearing from business leadership about that, and how storytelling might matter more than metrics. Plus, a very spicy take on ~the rebrand~, and why at least one company was hiring for someone to delete  their design system 😱Warning: F-word/language. 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesNoelle Lansford on LinkedInHire Noelle on your system: NoelleLansford.comNoelle's semi-viral blog post, The State of Design Systemslayoffs.fyiSam Anderson's Design Systems are InfrastructureeBay Design Playbook🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Jina Anne gives us a history of the journey from early style guides to widespread industry adoption of design systems, and the challenges and successes. We explore how tokens came to be, how it feels when the engineering team just starts using your work before it's ready, the separation of HTML/CSS/JS concerns, and how ClarityConf got started. Plus, the origin of the phrase "design systems" (maybe?), and  what the NASA Graphic Standards Manual has to do with ClarityConf. 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesJina AnneClarityConfThe Design Systems SlackQuarkSalesforce Theo for design tokensOld-school CSS tools Sass, Less, and StylusCSS Custom Properties (variables)Adam Morris and TachyonsSalesforce Lightning Design SystemNicole Sullivan and Mark Otto at The Mixin meetupRichard Danne, Designing for Earthlings and Astronauts at ClarityConf 2016The original 1976 NASA Graphic Standards ManualGartner Hype Cycle for UX 2024Penpot (Figma alt)Josh Silverman at CCABen Callahan's The Question🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Brad Frost takes us back in time to the early days of design systems, and walks us through some of the significant moments of evolution from style guides to modern design systems. We dig in to the multiple proto-Storybook-esque projects, the original problem of sharing UI patterns, what React did, and Brad's personal moment of "oh, it's called design systems now." Plus, a bonus podcast throwback from the Style Guides Podcast feat. Dave Rupert and some early proto-Storybook madness.💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesBrad FrostBrad's new tokens course, Subatomicpatternlab.ioHow Pattern Lab workedThis is Responsivestyleguides.ioAnna DebenhamNicole Sullivan OOCSSJonathan Snook SMACSS BookNatalie Downe "Practical Maintainable CSS"Ethan Marcotte's original Responsive Design article in A List ApartThe Story of ReactTHAT React CSS in JS slideStyle Guides podcast with Dave RupertRetailMeNot's Roux project 🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Elyse shares five predictions for design systems in 2025 and beyond in the second pre-season minisode. Text the show to share your thoughts and predictions and maybe even be featured in a future minisode!Early Bird tickets are available until January 15th for Into Design System's excellent annual virtual conference, featuring Nathan Curtis, Romina Kavcic, Cintia Romero, and more. Get your tickets now before prices go up at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme📲 Send me a text!Support the show

Are design systems in the trough of disillusionment? Elyse explores the past decade of design systems and what we're missing in this pre-season one minisode. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show

📲 Send me a text!Support the show